Over. The. Top.

Any doubts I had about saying: "Markos' has continually displayed a total lack of responsibility to the welfare of the Democratic Party this year," are now gone.


The big orange ugliness known as the "leading progressive blog" has done it. That vitriolic, vile excuse for a "community" is completely over the top, as is now clearly evident by their commentary--in no less than nine diaries today and counting--with regard to the Randi Rhodes episode. If ever there was a clear case of just how twisted "community sentiment" really is there, all you have to do is make a quick review of that community's reaction to this incident. Case in point...  

At first, as far as the matter was concerned, there was nothing. Nada. Zilch. Zero. Not "hardly a word," but nothing at all, yesterday on the Daily Obama about the Randi Rhodes' comments.

Almost as if the entire community was hoping: "If we don't acknowledge this outrage, maybe it'll go away."

Wrong! (I checked at the time. Did a search. Not one word in a comment, not to mention a diary about it all day and night, Wednesday, April 2...yesterday.)

Then soon after midnight, the diaries there started to appear, finally (after the story had played just about everywhere else on the planet).

Anyone with any sense of civility would expect there to be at least some semblance of outrage there about the matter. After all, here was a situation where a public media figure, doing a standup routine at an event sponsored by her employer, Air America, just out and out called one of the two leading candidates for President in our party a "fucking whore." (Oh, yeah...and she also said the same thing about the only female candidate that's ever run on a national ticket for a major party, Geraldine Ferraro, too.)

But, that was not the way it played on DailyKos, once folks (the ones remaining) there started writing about it.


Here's what played over at the largest progressive, Democratic blog...the "reality-based community for Democrats:"

(Here's some Democratic party reality circa April 3rd, 2008.)

"Randi Rhodes suspended from Air America"
--by firefilynw      98 comments; 7 rec's

"Her suspension is just temporary, and I want her voice back on the radio as soon as possible."

Randi Rhodes and Bill O'Rielly
--Collinn McDonnell      48 comments; 4 rec's

"When I watched the video of Randi calling HRC a whore for selling out, I agreed with her larger point, but saw how others would be deeply offended."

"I will proudly stand up for Randi Rhodes"
--AHiddenSaint      249 comments; 17 rec's

"We must make a stand and defend Randi Rhodes!"

Randi Rhodes - SUSPENDED (w/poll)
--spicecakes69      480 comments; 12 rec's

Personally ... I feel like she is being punished for saying what many think.  "Whore" in the vein of willing to do or say anything to garner the votes and/or superdelegates to get the nomination.

One of the more "redeeming" and ironic diaries about this on DKos is excerpted in the next blockquote, IMHO.

Reject and denounce Randy Rhodes
--skool      191 comments; 9 rec's

"Let me say first that I am an Obama supporter. This is the first time I am posting here. I posted a couple of times at MyDD last week until they banned me (username: ges69) and now Jerome Armstrong does not even respond to my emails. I posted there because I honestly wanted to engage in some dialog with Clinton supporters. But this is not what I want to write about. I want to write about a recent video of Randy Rhodes that surfaced in which she calls Ferraro and Clinton whores." 

[Editor's note: In fairness to "skool," the diarist goes on to condemn this in the diary, and says it must stop. Still, pretty ironic, huh?]

Air America Suspends Randi; John Hancock to Follow (Edited)
--ProfJonathan      209 comments; 9 rec's

"Shame on you, Air America, for silencing (hopefully temporarily) one of the strongest media voices for progressive ideals.  You may be within your rights, but it is certain, what you did wasn't by any means right. "

We reap what we sow
--sam2300      40 comments; 2 recs

"Well, we only have to look to ourselves to understand why the MSM doesn't present the context. Because we don't give people the same benefit we expect others to give."

All I can think about is my favorite line from Pacino in Scarface. (It's not the one everyone repeats from the movie: "Say hello to my leeetle frenz.") My favorite line from Scarface is when Pacino's driving up to the U.N. with one of the other bad guys sitting next to him in the passenger seat. Tony Montana calmly takes out his gun and blows the other guy's brains out against the blood-spattered window of the car and says, slowly and calmly: "Look at you now."

I'm very happy to be spending a lot more time here than there!

Thank you, Jerome, for standing up and doing what you do. I, for one, am not taking it for granted.

Tags: 2008 Presidential Race, Blogosphere, clinton, Daily Kos, obama, Randi Rhodes (all tags)



The Drudgification of Kos... I am stunned

that Kos would give up so much for his blind devotion to Obama.  

It is very, very disturbing.  Has a Spitzer-esque betrayal to it - in that we thought he was for the party but he is somehow on his own damn mystery quest that is not about us and can destroy all we have counted on him for.

by Molee 2008-04-03 03:58PM | 0 recs
The Lord of the Kooks

I lurked for many years at that site and I really thought he'd accomplished an awesome feat. Excited by the primaries I finally signed on a few months ago. (Yes, I realize in hindsight it was almost comically ill-timed). Markos really had a good thing going there but then this season and the virulent Hillary Hating initiated the self destruct sequence.

Now, from the Netroots to the DailyKooks - it's amazing to behold the seeds of destruction that is borne of their hatred and misogyny.

I hope Markos is satisfied with what he's done. I'll never take that man seriously on anything ever again.

by DemAC 2008-04-03 04:23PM | 0 recs
I joined the Kooks in 2005...

Thinking that Daily Kooks was the "best progressive blog" out there. My goodness, have I been proven wrong! The "primary wars" there have devolved into non-stop Hillary-bashing. If one dares to speak any ill against Mr. O or praise Hillary in any way, one's immediately attacked & marginalized. And now that they won't even condemn this most vile hate-speech from so-called "progressive" Randi Rhodes, it just proves our point that Daily Kooks has descended to the gutter.

by atdleft 2008-04-03 04:28PM | 0 recs
Kooks in 2005...

chasing us off was just the start, now they broak no human bloggers?  (or is it broke?)  

by anna shane 2008-04-03 04:40PM | 0 recs
Re: I joined the Kooks in 2005...

You know what they don't realize? That all the fighting against people like Bill O"reilly has now been for moot. They've, unfortunately, become everything Bill O accused them of being.

by Ga6thDem 2008-04-03 04:50PM | 0 recs
Re: I joined the Kooks in 2005...

Yes, it's Daily Kos that regularly cites and praises Fox News, Newsmax, Bill Kristol, Worldnetdaily, Lou Dobbs, Jonah Goldberg, American Spectator, Charles Krauthammer and many other sordid right-wing sources.

Oh wait...

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-04-03 05:06PM | 0 recs
Re: I joined the Kooks in 2005...

Obviously you missed the point. O'reilly has talked about how "out of the mainstream" dk is. I think they're making his point for him. It has nothing to do with right wing news sources.

by Ga6thDem 2008-04-03 05:17PM | 0 recs
Re: I joined the Kooks in 2005...

Um, I'm very glad be out of what Bill O'Reilly considers the mainstream.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-04-03 06:18PM | 0 recs
Re: I joined the Kooks in 2005...

the problem is you and dkos are now on O'Lielly's side...

by zerosumgame 2008-04-04 07:23AM | 0 recs
Re: I joined the Kooks in 2005...

and don't forget Drudge and Boob No-Facts and their constant use of code word Flush and O'Lielly put in their talking points all the times. Yep, you are accidently correct (yes we know you were trying to be snarky but you stepped in some truth this time, I am sure you will try to aim better next time ) about how they operate over there.

by zerosumgame 2008-04-04 07:21AM | 0 recs

in fact they do when it supports Obama.  However the real point is that the SCLM is mostly in the tank for Obama and you have to go to other sources that hate all democrats equally to get any kind of balance.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-04-04 12:34PM | 0 recs
Re: The Lord of the Kooks

Wow, sounds like me.  For many years I lurked, and learned, and enjoyed.  When the first negative Hillary diaries started coming out, I finally created a login, so that I could post my disagreements.  I think I posted only a few comments when I became really angry with the tone, and abandoned the "big orange' site completely.  Really ill-timed.

by moonheart 2008-04-04 04:31AM | 0 recs
Re: The Lord of the Kooks

I also was on DailyKos, but no longer.  When I suggested that their virulent attacks on fellow Deomcrats were a really bad idea, wow!  They just dumped and dumped.  

I won't waste my time there any longer.  DailyKos has become useless - too bad.  A total failure, from the top down, to maintain even a shred of civility.  

I was an Edwards supporter, but the attitude over at DailyKos cost Sen. Obama any chance of my support for the nomination.  I will vote for him in the election, however, should he win the nomination, but I surely will not be donating.  

by BillCat 2008-04-04 08:45AM | 0 recs
Re: The Lord of the Kooks

One more thought.  The prevailing attitude of self-righteousness and bullying over at Daily Kos reminded me of a fellow who I really had hoped to forget - Tom Delay.

Let's hope that the Deomcratic party is better than that.  

by BillCat 2008-04-04 08:48AM | 0 recs
funny isn't it?
I suggested to a friend of mine that liberals (of whom I am one) are just as capable of stupidity as right wingers he couldn't see it.  However it is true, dkos is a daily example.
Too bad since I think the liberal blogosphere in general did a spectacular job in 2006.
by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-04-04 12:39PM | 0 recs
Re: The Lord of the Kooks

You know... this is really sad.  I was just remembering some of the really great posting that was on dkos.  I once read a diary on food that lead me to read a book called 'the diet revolution'.  That lead me to become a vegetarian.  See, with all that was posted there, you never knew what you would learn.  I am really sad that the owner allowed the site to become so uniform and one sided.  I think democracy loses and we all lose.  At least here at Mydd, the admin's are a mixed bag.  I see pro-hillary postions and I see pre-Obama positions.  We may not agree all the time, hell we may never agree, but at least here it is more even handed.  I don't think the pro-Obama voices have been drowned out here on Mydd, whereas I do believe the pro-Hillary voices have been drowned out on Dkos.  If nothing else, I think it is very sad.  

by moonheart 2008-04-06 04:50AM | 0 recs
Ms. Rhodes Comments
were despicable, nasty, and just plain stupid.
With a mouth like that she doesn't deserve a soapbox on any decent, progressive medium.
Shame on her and shame on anyone who would support her rabid comments!
by toyomama 2008-04-04 07:45AM | 0 recs
Re: The Lord of the Kooks

Pretty cool post here;


We are past now the dizzying, frothing, mindless adoration from Huffington and the Daily Kos. We are now past the snotty, childish attacks on Clinton by Olbermann and Caferty. We are into a new realm now.

This infection has a host. It is the Obama campaign

by Newport News Dem 2008-04-04 08:28AM | 0 recs
Re: The Drudgification of Kos... I am stunned

There was one diary on Kos that contained an admonishment to Randi Rhodes and said that she deserved to be suspended.  It only had a few comments in it. I commented in that onen, but it would be hard to find it at this point. I went there specifically to see what they were doing with this subject, and it's 99% in favor of Randi Rhodes.  I just don't get it.  What she did was despicable, very revealing of her real self.  I will never listen to her again. I think it's too bad the big K thinks this is acceptable to the mainstream.  It just shows how out of touch they really are in their little bubble over there.  They need to touch down in Reality Land every now and then.

by shellius 2008-04-03 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: The Drudgification of Kos... I am stunned

That's an absolute lie.

The majority of the commenters aren't pleased.  Everyone should go there and check for themselves if they're really this exorcised about what a handful of diarists on another site think.

by Mostly 2008-04-03 11:28PM | 0 recs
"Everyone should go there..."

I.  Don't.  Think.  So.

That's the purpose of our Strike against Daily Kooks....and their "readership" is apparently down 30%.

And effective strike, wouldn't you say?  And we're not about to break it now.

by Shazone 2008-04-04 05:31AM | 0 recs
Re: "Everyone should go there..."

First off, the commenter meant that rather than attack another site without direct knowledge, people should go and check out the comments themselves.  First hand knowledge tends to e more reliable.

Secondly, I would like a link that supports your assertion of a 30% drop in readership.

An finally, just as I am opposed to the name calling of candidates, so I will point out..  it is Daily Kos, not Daily Kooks.

by JenKinFLA 2008-04-04 08:53AM | 0 recs

kooks is not a gender specific sexist name calling.  That is what is most offensive about what Rhodes said. You and I know that she never would have used that word to describe a male candidate.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-04-04 12:48PM | 0 recs
A Clinton Mafia Horses Head in Talk Radio's Bed

What she did was despicable, very revealing of her real self.  I will never listen to her again.

I hear this stuff and always from people who claim to have been listeners to  Randy  before she recently got so mad at Hillary for pimping herself at the expense of the party and talking about how McCain is better that Obama that she felt she had to take sides.  I just don't think these people are for real. They just don't sound like people who ever could have regularly listened to and enjoyed Randy before this stuff started.  I think it is all a Hillary Clinton organized swarm.

Call me paranoid, but you will never convince me that this whole thing is not a Hillary hit.  It uses the exact same sort of MO as the way they went after Obama with a uTube thing that looked bad to people who did not understand the context.

This whack on Randy is like a horses head dumped in the bed of every other left-leaning talk show host -- just like the "Judas" hit on Gov. Richardson was a message from the Hillary Mafia to superdelagates who get out of line.

BTW the new owner of Air America, venture capitalist Charlie Kireker, is a Vermonter and he is long time Democratic party establishment person who is a very close friend of big time Hillary surrogate former Vermont Governor Madeleine Kunin. Here is an in depth profile of Charlie Kireker from a few weeks ago in the Burlington [Vermont] Free Press.

 And of course Mark Green who is still running things is himself a de facto Hillary surrogate on cable TV shout-shows where he likes to argue with Big Ed Schultz about Hillary. 

This is calculated move the the Hillary Gang intended to be the next big distraction in this primary "campaign". We are supposed to talk about this and nothing else for a week or two.  And the subtext will of course be that Obama supporters all talk about Hillary like Randy did at that comedy club-type fundraiser. And all the reporters are going to ask Obama people to talk about it rather than the fact that Obama contributions for last month were $40 million.

I suppose that since Randy has come out for Obama and her comedy rant called Hillary a "whore" people are going to demand that Obama not do something like give a major address on the position of sex workers in America.    It is all a distraction of exactly the sort that Obama warned us about.

Of course we need to fight to see that Randy gets a mike back -- even if it has to be someplace like the NovaM network -- but we can't let the ongoing fight for the soul of the Democratic Party be about this. We have a war to end and an economy to save.  And we also have to save the party from the Clinton Mafia.


by Fred in Vermont 2008-04-04 05:02AM | 0 recs
Didn't Big Ed Schultz' head explode...

recently - when he lost his "gig" in Florida for lack of listeners?

So now we are to believe that Hillary, that Monster, intended Randi Rhodes to call her and Ferraro whores so they could have the "next big distraction"?

I.  Don't.  Think.  So.

But since you believe the lie that "Clinton will do ANYTHING to steal this election", I'm sure you do.

Sad.  So sad.

by Shazone 2008-04-04 05:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Didn't Big Ed Schultz' head explode...

Didn't Big Ed Schultz' head explode... recently - when he lost his "gig" in Florida for lack of listeners?

I don't know about that but I am sure that Charlie Kireker's and Mark Green's heads must have exploded when AM 1400, the main Air America outlet in NY City area decided this week to run with Ed Schultz over Air America.

So now we are to believe that Hillary, that Monster, intended Randi Rhodes to call her and Ferraro whores so they could have the "next big distraction"?

Now don't lets start to use the M word ;-)

Not exactly.  I think that the Clinton Mafia got hold of a low quality video of a part of the stand-up act that Randy did two weeks ago in San Francisco and put it up on utube and then shopped around the link.  Just like with with Obama's former pastor. 

I.  Don't.  Think.  So.

Well I think it is very likely.

But since you believe the lie that "Clinton will do ANYTHING to steal this election", I'm sure you do.

I don't think it is a lie, and yes that is why I think it is probably why this happened.  When you want to know why something happens look at who might have thought they had something to gain.

Sad.  So sad.

Yes very much so, but true.


by Fred in Vermont 2008-04-04 06:16AM | 0 recs
The Clintons are responsible for Wright's...

videos being released?

I hope they got a cut of the profits from the Church that was selling them!

by Shazone 2008-04-04 06:37AM | 0 recs
TR'ed for the CT crap

yeah yeah it's all Hillary's fault, she made that guy buy AirAmerica just so she couls get Randi fired.

by zerosumgame 2008-04-04 07:25AM | 0 recs
Re:A Clinton Mafia Horses Head

Apparently, the use of street language will be ongoing. Fred in Vermont should be ashamed.

As the initial question revolved around Randy calling Hillary a "F** whore," the use of the word "pimping herself" is also nasty.  Misogynic and sexist, to boot!  

by BillCat 2008-04-04 08:56AM | 0 recs
oh bite me Fred

are you saying that obama supporters never email each other?
Yes I knew about this thread because of an email (nothing to do with the Clinton campaign at all) but that doesn't mean that I am not offended or determined not to listen to Rhodes again.  Yes I did listen to her, in fact I got her email alerts.  But like Keith Obamamann and several others, I will not be bothered to listen again.

Let me remind you that the negative attacks started wit Obama a year ago.  He is currently running very offensive anti democratic party commercials in PA.
He can KMA if he thinks he is ever going to get my vote and I have NEVER voted against the democrat in 32 years of voting.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-04-04 12:53PM | 0 recs
Re: The Drudgification of Kos... I am stunned

"very, very disturbing...."

This is silly; this is the same thing that Bill O'Reilly does when he wants to go after Arianna Huffington.  You're cherry picking the quotes, and ignoring the general - though not quite unanimous - view among the commenters that it was over the line.

And you know it.  You put a lot of research and reading into writing this diary, and yet you ignored the fact that the community at Daily Kos is upset with Randi Rhodes.  And for what?

Why are you engaging in some stupid turf war?

by Mostly 2008-04-03 11:26PM | 0 recs
Lots of collateral damage from this war

Why are you engaging in some stupid turf war?

Well for the same reason that there is a war between Hillary and Obama.  It is a fight for control of the Democratic Party and this fight between MyDD and DailyKos is a part of it.

There is going to be a lot of collateral damage when this is over.  I just hope that all the people so gung ho for this war will be around and willing to help clean up the mess when this is over in not too any weeks.

by Fred in Vermont 2008-04-04 05:08AM | 0 recs
Re: The Drudgification of Kos... I am stunned

This cherry picking is pathetic and unproductive.  I could find 7 equally offensive on this site to if I cared, but I don't.  

MyDD and DailyKos are two top notch sites, and this kind of infighting is just plain idiotic.  Both sites are currently moving away from this kind of hysteria.  The diarists' desire to salt wounds rather than heal them is shameful.  

For the record, to hell with Randi Rhodes.  I didn't like her before she insulted Hillary and I don't like her now.  Talk radio sucks whether it comes from the left or the right.  Talk radio is propaganda.  Turn off Air America and support publicly funded radio.  

by dystopianfuturetoday 2008-04-04 12:41AM | 0 recs
Re: The Drudgification of Kos... I am stunned

You're absolutely right, and the diarist presented only one side of the story.
Do a search for "Randi Rhodes" over at Dkos and this is what you'll see, besides the comments cherry picked by the diarist:

So here's the bottom line: just because we agree with the point Randi was making does not mean we must agree with her language.  We need to be very clear that Democrats can never adopt the "It's ok if you're a democrat" mindset.  That kind of loyalty before principles thinking is Republican terrority.

Under no circumstances is it acceptable to call a sitting senator and an ex-vice presidential candidate a whore.  Under no circumstances is it acceptable to call ANY woman a whore.  Ever.  It is a blatantly sexist and offensive term.

Then there are hundreds of comments in the diaries and a few polls that showed a majority of Obama supporters were appalled by
Randi's ignorant rantings.

Daily Kos has it's problems right now, but there is still a lot of great writing going on there about the war, about the Congress, the DOJ and Mukasey and other topics.

And for the record, RR is one AAR host I rarely listen to anymore, she simply is more interested in hearing herself talk than she is in promoting Democratic ideas.

by skohayes 2008-04-04 03:54AM | 0 recs
Thanks for being frank about that

I didn't like her before she insulted Hillary and I don't like her now.

Thanks for at least being frank about that.  Randy has never been for everyone.  I really smell a rat with a lot of these people who claim to have been big Randy fans before she turned against Hillary.

by Fred in Vermont 2008-04-04 05:11AM | 0 recs
DKOS is no more over the top

than some of the things I have read here over the last 3 months.

At this moment only 1 of the 10 diaries on the reclist could be caracterized as anti-Clinton.  Of the 5 diaries on the reclist here, usually at least 2 are nothing but personal attacks on Obama.  One of the diaries on the reclist right now is by someone who called Obama twofaced and underhanded.  

You are wrong.  

by fladem 2008-04-04 04:56AM | 0 recs
Re: DKOS is no more over the top

Of the 5 diaries on the reclist here, usually at least 2 are nothing but personal attacks on Obama.  One of the diaries on the reclist right now is by someone who called Obama twofaced and underhanded.  

Yes lets keep some perspective on this.  There are also a lot of blogs and comments here that attack the DailyKos and Markos.  That is sort of unusual for a blog to have so much focus on attacking another larger and more successful one.  It just does not look right.

Why don't some of you just argue you case on the DailyKos?  Sure you will get people who disagree with you perhaps some will even be over the top, but that is the way it is.  Just be willing to make your case, ignore any trolls, and answer the rational replies.

That is what I do here.  I have not even been to the DailyKos the last two days because I have been on the Air America blog and here. 

But don't try to convince me that the DailyKos has turned into some sort of snake pit.  It seems to me that this place is much more that way than the DailyKos.


by Fred in Vermont 2008-04-04 05:20AM | 0 recs
You know that almost anyone can post a

diary on Daily Kos.   While those diaries reflect poorly on the authors and some commenters, Markos did not write them nor has he said anything in support of Rhodes' comments. Nor do I think he would.  

I commented in a couple of the diaries and disagreed with the authors.  I find Rhodes' statements offensive and sexist, even if she is a woman.  Tacky and trashy also. Suspending her is appropriate.

Some of thsoe diaries were by immature Obama supporters who have no political consciousness other than "Obama is cool."  The diaries supporting Rhodes were garbage, in my view.  But garbage is speech also.  Better to combat it directly.

Markos supports Obama.  I find some of the posts by him and other front pagers lauding Obama a bit tiresome, but he has the right to do state his views.  

The Clinton/Obama fight is much ado about nothing, since their views are quite similar. No. Real. Change.    

It was not Markos who "ran" Clinton supporters off Dkos (I know, it was Alegre's boycott).  It was a subset of Obama supporters who were immature and jerks.

I find Markos too centrist, but he allowed opposing points of view.  The Edwards people were allowed to post there all last year, as were the Clinton supporters.

So, I think this attack on Markos is unjustified.  

Neither Obama nor Clinton are the Democratic Party. Supporting one or the other does not mean one opposes teh Democratic Party.  It's bigger than both of them.  

by TomP 2008-04-04 06:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Amazing and symbolic.  Thanks for daring the den.

by LindaSFNM 2008-04-03 04:00PM | 0 recs
I don't mean to attack you

but don't you think this diary is completely baseless for the discourse of this blog?

by SocialDem 2008-04-03 04:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

I'm a regular at DKos and like it very much but I was offended at what Randi said and was amazed when I read those posts that seemed to think it was OK. However, I do not in any way see how you could say this site is better. I think MyDD is much, much less civil and sane. However still worth visiting to see what people are saying.

by Becky G 2008-04-03 04:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

so wait you are attacking Kos because some people, don't completely disgree with Rhodes?

can I blame Hillary for the crap that her supporters say at taylormarsh.com or Hillaryis44.org?

holy crap, he doesn't supporter Hillary everyone knows that, I doubt anyone really expected him to comment much on this.

do you also expect to comment if someone attacks John McCain?

wow so basically this diary is a reason to attack Daily Kos, and coming from MyDD, thats just wow

by TruthMatters 2008-04-03 04:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

I think we should. Everything said at HI44 or TaylorMarsh = Hillary said it; that's the new rule.


by ragekage 2008-04-03 04:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

I expected him to comment. it doesn't matter who he supports. It is about common decency. A few weeks ago someone posted a dairy here comparing Obama to Hitler. Within a few minutes he has to delete the dairy. The Hillary supporters, including myself, condemned it so harshly that the diarist apologized.

If Obama supporters are really expecting full support from Hillary's supporters should he win the nomination they need to rethink their vitriol. Unless they think he will get enough Republican votes to take him over the top.

Incidentally, with a name like truth matters, your comments were a bit disappointing. Having read most of them, they lead me to believe you may be here to try to discourage Hillary's supporters. But, we are standing strong for our candidate.

by LadyEagle 2008-04-03 06:19PM | 0 recs
Why would he comment? Has he ever?

Has Kos ever commented on anything Randi Rhodes did? There have been other controversies involving her, and I don't recall that they've generated much attention on daily Kos, let alone from Kos himself. He probably hasn't even heard the quote in full context because Rhodes just isn't significant enough to warrant that type of attention.

As for Hitler/MyDD thing, that was about blogs, and there has been tension recently between his blog and this one, plus he wrote a book together with Jerome, and so forth, so of course what happens here is a lot closer to home for Kos.

by End game 2008-04-03 07:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Why would he comment? Has he ever?

Oh please.  Markos has been on Air America many, many , many times, and for you to be suggesting that he's somehow not aware of Randi Rhodes is beyond ridiculous.

Whatever controversies with her you're talking about, they weren't anything like this one. I'm pretty sure that Markos reads his own damn blog, and he knows exactly what's going on.

The only lefty radio talker who has more listeners than Randi Rhodes is Ed Schultz, so lets dispense with the nonsense about he has noticed her because she's not that significant. It isn't helping your credibility.

by Denny Crane 2008-04-03 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Why would he comment? Has he ever?

I've heard Kos on the Sam Seder show - and if Sam was under fire, I'm sure Kos would comment. And I'm not suggesting he doesn't know who Randi Rhodes is, or that she said something inflammatory recently. I AM saying that he would not bother to investigate it because Randi sin't significant on dailyKos, and there's no personal relationship between her and Kos.

Other controversies? RR show ran a joke intro one time about someone shooting Bush. That made it to the MSM, MSMBC at least. Did Kos comment? Not that I recall.

For this diary to have any validity, the diarist should have established that Kos' behavior now is an exception to the history/pattern on dKos regarding Randi - of course s/he couldn't because there's nothing there.

by End game 2008-04-04 09:00AM | 0 recs
So you were all over the diary

that compared Obama to George Wallace?  I assume you wrote how over the top and offensive that comparision was.  

That diary stayed on the reclist here for a day.

I challenge you to find a DKOS diary that made the reclist that was nearly as over the top as that one was.

by fladem 2008-04-04 04:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

another post showing your screen name is the opposite of who you are. This diary is about dkos, not BHO. your fallacious and stupid attempt to conflate the two is not just baseless it is another example of your basic dishonesty.

by zerosumgame 2008-04-04 07:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Absolutely, because Clinton supporters are the paragon of elite politeness and political correctness. They'd never cheer on somebody saying something like this about Obama, and defend it harshly.

Sorry, Bob, you lost credibility with me awhile back by making accusations you could've easily checked up on, and then insisting you were right until I conclusively proved you were wrong, whereupon you immediately cut off the conversation as if nothing had ever happened. We get it- you don't like Kos. Holy cow!

I've never heard Air America or this person before, but it sounds like she's nothing more than Bill O'Reilly or Ann Coulter. These people feed on this nonsense- keep going rabid over it, and they only do it more. Hell, I suppose Ann Coulter comparing Obama to Hitler was accurate, right? I don't hear you up in arms about that one.

by ragekage 2008-04-03 04:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Cite an example of a national progressive media personality calling Obama anything like that.  That person would have been canned in a heartbeat.


by adrienne4dean 2008-04-03 04:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Why is that even relevant? Randi Rhodes doesn't work for dKos. You make it sound as if Kos himself uttered the infamous words.

This diary is just a standard bobswern complaint about dKos, this time because not everyone on a website of 150,000 agreed with him--or maybe they did agree, but didn't use the words he wanted them to. Who knows.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-04-03 05:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

So is Randi Rhodes the new Jeremiah Wright?

by denounceandreject 2008-04-03 04:13PM | 0 recs

Another ridiculous, whiny diary.

Yes, those Kos people are terrible.
Yes, those Obama people - also terrible.

They all eat puppies and are SO hateful. Not like this place, which is all smiles and pleasantry.

Wouldn't it be nice to see some diaries that go after the person that we are going to have to BEAT in the GE? Hint: It's not Kos or Rhandi Rhodes.

by jwolf 2008-04-03 04:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Please.Stop.The.One.Word.Sentences.It's.Trite.

It never fails to amaze me how insular Obama fans are.   You're in love with a rock star, a myth that you have made, and it has blinded you to everything else, even common human decency and normal human reaction.  I don't know what Obama fans have become but they have lost touch with acceptable behavior, and that is very telling.  It started with the defending of Reverend Wright's bigoted and racist remarks, and now it carries over to a self-absorbed radio show host.   What Randi Rhodes did was despicable and disgusting, and the reaction of the Kossacks to it is noteworthy and also shocking. It's like Lord of the Flies over there. If you don't agree with them they will pick you to shreds and eat your remains. In large areas, this site is like Civilization itself compared to the DK and that's because of the people here and their ability to reason like human beings.  It's not even partisan, it's just more adult here than there, which you can tell by the reaction to what that spoiled brat Rhodes said.  On what planet is what she said even remotely acceptable?

Come on. This is noteworthy.  They are defending the indefensible. That says something about at least a sub-group of Obama supporters.

by shellius 2008-04-03 06:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Please.Stop.The.One.Word.Sentences.It's.Trite.

Well said -- shellius. This is one of the reasons -- I just wrote in another diary that I am seriously considering voting for McCain. Blogs don't matter much (or shouldn't), but increasingly -- as I witnessed supporters of a campaign not calling on their candidates to do the right thing (for eg. wrt MI, FL), or call the MSM to stop and treat their candidates fairly -- I started wondering if this is the kind of party I want to belong to! God knows how these fans will behave toward their rock star and others once he is elected.. <shudder>.

Democrats -- hear me -- you may not like this -- but Hillary was possibly  right when she said that Senator Obama 'cannot' win.

by BostonIndependent 2008-04-03 06:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Please.Stop.The.One.Word.Sentences.It's.Trite.

Randi Rhodes isn't part of his campaign. Nor is dKos. I've seen plenty of Obama supporters deride Rhodes for what she said. I'm one of them.

I would be wary of letting a vocal minority of rude people infect your view of an entire population of people. I've seen supporters laugh and yuck it up on hillaryis44 about dousing Obama in gasoline and setting him alight. I don't let that color how I interact with people on here or use that as a reason to vote against Hillary.

by tessellated 2008-04-03 10:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Please.Stop.The.One.Word.Sentences.It's.Trite.

And I am amazed how Clinton supporters can continue to live in some kind of Barbie dream world where the Queen can do no wrong. So no this is not noteworthy. People dying in Iraq today is noteworthy, the genocide in Darfur is noteworthy. What some stupid idiotic shock jock says is just that. But as I have said earlier what is your obsession with kos? You guys can't stop bringing him up. You must really be missing the site.

by lion king 2008-04-03 07:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Please.Stop.The.One.Word.Sentences.It's.Trite.

They're not defending anything.

Go over to the site.  Read the diaries, and then the comments.  This diarist is being incredibly dishonest about the DKos community's reaction to this.

by Mostly 2008-04-03 11:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

who the hell is Rhandi Rhodes ?

by lori 2008-04-03 04:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

I think she is a shock jock

by denounceandreject 2008-04-03 04:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Well....she can shock this....nothing she has to say is of interest to me...If she can't complete a full sentance without a four letter word, well....what can she offer us in this historic campaign season...Let it stay at Kos with him and his followers...

by Patriot2008 2008-04-03 04:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Ozzy Osbourne's former lead guitarist.  Died in a plane crash in the 80s.

Wait, wrong person.  Same relevance though.  

Kidding aside, I like Air America, but have never liked RR's show.  She always struck me as as the left's version of Rush (read: largely full of crap).

Eh, my 2 cents.

by fogiv 2008-04-03 05:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

She is (soon to be was?) a radio host on Air America. She, like most hosts on AA, tends to err on the side of political hackery. It has seemed to me that AA felt the need to counter Right Wing Radio and so decided to create their own Frankenstein version of it. Well, great surprise, the monster sometimes turns on the master.

by tessellated 2008-04-03 10:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Why do all the kos strikers still keep bringing up his site??  Face it you all wish you could go back.Your obsessed with him.

by lion king 2008-04-03 04:25PM | 0 recs
No, we really don't.

Why would we want to go back to that horrid site? Because we like being cyber-bullied? Because we love it when your Obama friends show us what Barack's "hope & change" is all about why calling us ugly names that I'd rather not repeat here? Sorry, but I think we have better things to do than spend an evening in the gutter with the "Kookssaks".

by atdleft 2008-04-03 04:32PM | 0 recs
Re: No, we really don't.

Exactly! Here you can act worse than they did to you over there, but it's okay when it's the other way around, right?

by ragekage 2008-04-03 04:36PM | 0 recs
Re: No, we really don't.

Then why do you keep bringing him up. Everyday someone mentions him. Come on admit it you just can't stop thinking about kos.

by lion king 2008-04-03 04:41PM | 0 recs
Re: No, we really don't.

Get a life!

by Patriot2008 2008-04-03 04:52PM | 0 recs
I don't...

But it's kinda hard for all of us to avoid that damn site when so many of Markos' fans swarm this site to attack us. Why are you all coming here? Do you all miss bullying us around? Or are you angry that we've found places where we can be heard and where we're not silenced for "hating on Obama" (meaning saying anything nice about Hillary and/or saying O's not a perfect god coming down from the heavens to rescue us)?

by atdleft 2008-04-03 04:57PM | 0 recs
Re: I don't...

Preach, brother!

by Denny Crane 2008-04-03 07:34PM | 0 recs
Re: No, we really don't.

Funny, you decry the bad treatment and namecalling by, uh, namecalling?!?  Brilliant.

by fogiv 2008-04-03 05:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Why are you here? Seems like you miss bashing Clinton supporters over there. There is some research that shows that the Pro-Hillary blogs have kept steady visitors, but visitors on the pro-Obama blogs have fallen off markedly.

Anyone else read the articles and can find the link?

by LadyEagle 2008-04-03 06:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

It's because Obama supporters can think independently and do not need constant reassurance that they are supporting the right candidate. Whereas Clinton supporters are insecure about their candidate and her chances, that they have to gather and give each other constant reassurance. Read the comments on Hillaryis44,TaylorMarsh and here and you'll notice the minute a pro Hillary goes up they all run to comment with praise and reassurances.

by lion king 2008-04-03 08:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Now, THAT is about as foolishly categorical as one can get.

Come November, you may well want and need my vote.  It's unwise to post lies like "constant reassurance" and "insecure," regarding folks who you want to support your candidate.  

The King (Lion King) ain't wearing much today!  

by BillCat 2008-04-04 09:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Yeah, I read the articles last night.  I had been under the impression that most of the people at Kos weren't pleased at all with what she had said, and was confused by your diary so I went back and checked.

Turned out I was completely right.

As to "why do you come here?", why shouldn't we?  It's a strange question.

by Mostly 2008-04-03 11:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

The reason I asked the question is that it seems that a number of Obama who have migrated here appears to be on the site to insult Hillary's supporters even though they decided to leave the other site rather than engage in the vitriol.

Continuing to insult and belittle Hillary's supporters is a sure way for your candidate to lose in the GE if he should win the nomination. Thank God for freedom in America. This gives people the right to vote or not to vote as they see fit.

As for the Hillary website that's exactly what it was setup for to encourage and reassure. I have been there once, but if folks need the encouragement that's fine.

The wonderful thing about your candidate who is winning is that he is polling exactly like my candidate against McCain. That would certainly concern me given the great financial advantage he currently has. And, I don't need to be reminded of HRC's huge name recognition, Obama has caught up. I don't need to be reminded that she is establishment, he has caught up. he even has Kerry's 3 million member email list. And he still can't shake her. As a matter a fact he has blown a recent 16 point lead and is back to three per cent, a statistical tie.

by LadyEagle 2008-04-04 05:42AM | 0 recs

traffic has exploded over the last 3 months.

by fladem 2008-04-04 05:03AM | 0 recs
Traffic's up at MyDD. DKos not so much.

See: www.alexa.com.

Nos. in past 90 days, roughly:

MyDD traffic up 75%-80%. DKos traffic up 24%-25%.

by bobswern 2008-04-04 05:18AM | 0 recs

had a much higher readership to begin with.  
DKOS averages between 300 to 400K a day.  Mydd struggles to get 15% of that.  It is growing no faster than openleft (which is pro-Obama)

DKOS is gowing (despite the "writers strike).

by fladem 2008-04-04 05:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Hre's how much I "wish" to go back (NOT!) - I politely asked to have my DailyKos account cancelled.  Apparently, they are unwilling to do this.  

I'll not be going back.  

by BillCat 2008-04-04 09:07AM | 0 recs
It's so horrible...

...that Kos allows his participants to make up their own minds as to what they want to post on the blog.  It's almost as though people have opinions.

by juliewolf 2008-04-03 04:34PM | 0 recs
Re: It's so horrible...

Andrew Dice Clay has "opinions;" so do Camille Paglia, Rush Limbaugh, Phyllis Schlafly, Christina Hoff-Sommers, and many others. Read about them right here.

I wonder if they'd be warmly received over at DKos?

For the record, the blockquotes in the diary, here, are all from the respective diarists' diaries. The comments to those diaries were waaaaay too harsh to even post here. (Some critics would've called it "sensationalism.")

What I find sensational--and indeed the reason I posted this diary in the first place--is the stark contrast in management between MyDD and DKos (at least at the moment).

Clearly, if the primary concern of both blogs (as stated in their respective mission statements) is to support the Democratic Party, then one IS well-managed; one is not.

What's fascinating is how people rationalize their response to this last sentence, IMHO.

by bobswern 2008-04-03 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: It's so horrible...

There is a wide range of opinions posted on Kos.  Many of them get arguments from various people.  So what?  

If you're interested in providing evidence, by the way, you should provide links to the actual diaries in question, not just isolated quotes.

by juliewolf 2008-04-04 08:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Bob, I fully agree with you. I read some of those diaries, and thought that there'd at least be 99% to 100% agreement, but was sadly disappointed to find out that some people had differing opinions.

I fully believe that this reckless differentation of opinions is what's ruining not just Daily Kos, but America herself. There is far too much individualism, free speech, and lack of concern for the continued propagation of the Supreme Hive Mind.

I have written the Commanders of the High Thought Council, and I have no doubt they will address this situation promptly. I fully expect that Kos will be found, killed and fed to the three-headed gryphon that guards the icy towers of the Grand Imperial Palace.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-04-03 04:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

oh, catfish...at least have the courage to speak up rather than doing a drive-by troll-rating spree of everyone who disagrees with the diarist.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-04-03 05:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Ugg.  I've been getting that a lot lately too.

by fogiv 2008-04-03 05:47PM | 0 recs
Maybe it was

for bad snark, who knows?

by Coldblue 2008-04-03 06:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Marko's has done more race baiting then anyone i can think of.  The day after super tuesday he ran the darkened clip twice that day and then posted it again.  Then his site post several threads suggesting the Clinton's were racist like the 3 am ad was really racist. No person i can think of has made more attacks on the clintons as racist than Marko's.

And the really funny thing is what the hell does he know about racism.  Seriously he is the king of middle class.  He doesnt know shit about racism and IMHO to him it is some word he read in books and studied in class.  

I thing is it is really funny when he says HRC will do anything to win.  From what i have seen he will do and say anything so BO can win including lying and dividing democrats over race.


by giusd 2008-04-03 04:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Ummm, from a 2006 article by Markos: "I was 5 feet 6 inches tall, weighed just 111 pounds, and didn't have a shred of self-confidence. In high school, I had been the short, skinny, Salvadoran war refugee with the funny accent who looked half his age (still do) and read books in the (then) lily-white Chicago suburb of Schaumburg. A deadly combination."

But no, you and your seven recs are right, it's all white middle class privilege for him!

What the hell does he know about racism?

by Gimmeliberty 2008-04-03 06:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

What the Fuck he doesn't know anything about racism. He's Latino. Latinos experience racism. God you are an idiot. You then go on to prove your ignorance by saying that because he's middle class he doesn't experince racism!!! This is by far the stupidest comment I have ever read on this site.

by lion king 2008-04-03 08:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

First, the fact that he is Latino doesn't mean a priori he knows about racism.  To suggest that is dead wrong.  Second, you post is nothing more that a series of insults and really i don't think what i wrote is the stupidest comment ever on this site.  So i think you should step back and correct the record.  

And let me tell you.  Unlike kos i didn't grow up in a safe middle class NW area of Chicago.  I am from Austin and this was one of the roughest changing areas of Chicago in the early 70's.  And we all know what "changing" identified in the 70's.

So with all respect i am not interested in being lectured about what racism is from someone who grew up in some safe middle class home is suburbia.


by giusd 2008-04-04 04:07AM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

You keep proving my point. Growing up in suburbia does not mean you don't experience racism. In fact when you are a person of color and you grow up in suburbia you experience more racism then growing up in the city which has a more diverse population. If you are not a person of color you really have no idea what it's like to experience racism first hand.

by lion king 2008-04-04 06:34AM | 0 recs
Then again, you're incorrect

You're a recent arrival to DKos who does not even know the first thing about the man, yet here you are waxing on authoritatively about the subject.

by Quicklund 2008-04-03 08:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Then again, you're incorrect

When you say something so incorrect it clouds my view of your every statement.  From what i can see i was number 1600 or so that joined dkos.  So when you say "you're a recent arrival to Dkos" i think we can all agree you dont really know what you are saying.  So i am waiting for you to correct the record here.


by giusd 2008-04-04 03:58AM | 0 recs
Clearing the record

I gladly accept the chance to correct the record.  I frankly do admit I have not memorized the UID# of everyone who uses DKos.  If you have that low a UID# then you been registered at that site for a long time. However I donot recall reading anything from you until 3-4 months ago, when I encountered a couple lengthy, impenetratable, illogical diaries.  

I will also gladly add that since you have been registered at DKos for so long, for you to know so little about the site owner is even more astounding. This lack of comprehension is, I suppose, consitent with the muddled thinking put ondisplay in your diaries.

Speaking of clearing the record, when are you going to clear the record yourself by admitting your characterization of Kos as the product of privlidged lily-white well-to-do America was built on nothing more than your poisoned imagination?

Thought so.

by Quicklund 2008-04-04 05:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Then again, you're incorrect

There is really not much point engaging Quicklund. He is one of the DKos provocateurs who recently  began posting at MyDD when he became bored with the echo chamber he helped create. He has no interest in advancing Democratic or progressive goals here or anywhere else.

by souvarine 2008-04-04 06:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Then again, you're incorrect

Thanks for the info.  I will keep this in mind in the future and will not address his issues.


by giusd 2008-04-04 06:51AM | 0 recs
Are these the same people who got Imus Fired

fired for a 2 second stupid remark.  This, I almost said b...ch, this ass went on and on calling two incredible women whores.

Screw Randy Rhodes.

by NewHampster 2008-04-03 05:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Are these the same people who got Imus Fired

So making a racist remark on the air is less evil then calling somone a whore? Because what white women were enslaved in this country? Because white women had to eat, sleep, and shit in white only establishments??? You must truly be living in Barbie Dream World.

by lion king 2008-04-03 08:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Two things
1)All those diaries have a lot of comments and few recs - that's normally an indication that the community at large doesn't agree with what you're saying although it sparked a lot of conversation. dKos is a big community, selectively quoting a few people isn't reflective of the whole.

2)While what Randi Rhodes said was pretty despicable (and I don't particularly enjoy listening to her on the radio - far too annoying), what she said was at some club (stand up or something) and she shouldn't lose her job over this. She isn't being held to the same standard as commentators on TV or members of campaigns - she should be able to say what the hell she wants (ironic what with all the screams of censorship around here recently). Please don't be gleeful about someone losing there job.

by grass 2008-04-03 05:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Do you mean like how Gleeful BO supporters were when the destroyed Ferraro????

Talk about censorship.  But that was different.  That was when BO supporters were pitching the zero tolerance meme and we will pass judgement on anyone who talks about race.  And that was before Rev Wright and the new meme of "we have zero tolerance expect ro Frieds of Obama".  FOO can use race anyway they want there is only zero tolerance for political reason.  Funny how that works.


by giusd 2008-04-03 05:26PM | 0 recs
A great point

none of these diaries cam CLOSE to the reclist.

Unlike the diary here that compared Obama to George Wallace.

by fladem 2008-04-04 05:24AM | 0 recs
Is this the same orange blog

that was so up-in-arms over Don Imus? Outraged that he would call someone a whore on the air, and calling for his head? I knew that the dKos that I knew and loved was dead and gone forever when they bent over backwards trying to defend David Shuster.

by georgiapeach 2008-04-03 05:37PM | 0 recs
I liked the Slinkerwink diary imploring

"Kossacks" (who wants to be called a disciple of some internet founder?  Kinda cultish!) to dig through Hillary Clinton's tax returns to find things to make her unelectable (its part of a series of diaries by Slinkerwink with the theme of destroying the two-term POTUS Clinton brand in the name of strengthening the party).

by PJ Jefferson 2008-04-03 05:38PM | 0 recs
Re: I liked the Slinkerwink diary imploring

Almost as tasteless as going through someones KINDERGARTEN papers.

by fogiv 2008-04-03 05:51PM | 0 recs
Is this your first time here?

Or have you chosen to completely ignore the vitriolic bile of bloggers like SusanHu and Alegre, who have spent the last several months launching one baseless attack after another?

So what if Daily Kos didn't "officially" speak out against Randi Rhodes?  If you hate Daily Kos so much, why do you need that site to validate your anger?

Get over it.  Move on.  There are far, far more important things in this life to worry about than what vulgar language an ENTERTAINER(and that's all talk hosts are, folks) decides to use.

by jaywillie 2008-04-03 05:52PM | 0 recs
I guess the strike is over

The fiarist here swore a public oath to never visit DKos so as to starve the beast by depriving it of precious page hits. I guess that sacred oath has been violated. Now Kos drinks his pagehits.

by Quicklund 2008-04-03 08:22PM | 0 recs
Reminds me of Shakespeare!

"Kos drinks my pagehits!" How incredibly poetic.

FYI: I never "swore a public oath to never visit DKos."

But, I've gotta' say, you have a flair for the spin.

by bobswern 2008-04-03 09:32PM | 0 recs
Me: Not a Poet / You: Not Honest

Sorry, bobswern, but you are being dishonest. If you cannot be honest with yourself, how canyou write an honest diary about what iccured over at DKos?  Oh that's right, you didn't write an honest diary.  You cherry picked a few comments.  Let's see how that works, shall we?

Here is Alegre's stirring anouncement of 'The Strike'.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/3/14/ 20827/4727

Here is your public pledge to support 'The Strike'.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2008/3/ 14/20827/4727/854#c854

Here is the comment in full and unedited.

Sign me up! I'm in. See you on MyDD... (4+ / 0-)

Recommended by:Lisafr, TexMex, hopefulcanadian, marsalt

...in the interim. I'm also checking out Docudharma now, and have signed up there as a newbie.

Alegre, you're a very special person, and....YOU ROCK!

--Bob Swern

"I always thought if you worked hard enough and tried hard enough, things would work out. I was wrong." --Katharine Graham

by bobswern on Fri Mar 14, 2008 at 06:31:59 PM PDT

by Quicklund 2008-04-04 05:22AM | 0 recs
My comments stand.

I'm a big supporter of this action.

So, did you just elect yourself president of this non-existent labor union? Or, are you just the one responsible for writing the rule book?

Give me your address so I know where to send my Union dues check. Thank you kindly.

by bobswern 2008-04-04 05:52AM | 0 recs
Re: My comments stand.

Thanks for the laugh!  

by BillCat 2008-04-04 09:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

The outrage should be how a woman describes in the bases of terms other women.  Women who have served their country for the past 3 decades.  High fiving Randi Rhodes is just another example of female denigration and from what I am reading that seems to fit perfectly with Obama supporters.  However, come November when all votes count and he is the nominee, don't come thinking that some of us women will be so readily agreeable to jump onboard.  We will remember the lack of outrage expressed at this time.

by Pat J 2008-04-03 05:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Hey, thanks for brushing all Obama supporters with that same thing, I appreciate it.

by ragekage 2008-04-04 12:43AM | 0 recs

"High fiving Randi Rhodes is just another example of female denigration and from what I am reading that seems to fit perfectly with Obama supporters"

I love generalizations. How about this: Take out female denigration, and insert: racists.  Then, take out Obama, and insert Hillary.  Now after doing this tell me how you would feel if I made a broad generalization like that?

by SocialDem 2008-04-04 05:34AM | 0 recs
Re: BO's Campaign Should Also Condemn the Comments

BO's Campaign should also condemn Randi Rhodes' comments.  But this is one of the reasons I have always been skeptical of the BO campaign and its supporters -- too many BO supporters are Hillary haters.  I don't want to be part of a campaign built on hate.  It's one thing to differ on policy or even to question someone's judgment or experience.  It's another to continually denigrate and demean people under the guise of political commentary.  

by Middleagemom 2008-04-03 05:59PM | 0 recs
Re: BO's Campaign Should Also Condemn the Comments

But this is one of the reasons I have always been skeptical of the BO campaign and its supporters -- too many BO supporters are Hillary haters.

And many Obama supporters would say, "But this is one of the reasons I have always been skeptical of the HRC campaign and its supporters -- too many HRC supporters are Obama haters."

I'm not trying to invalidate your concerns, but we all see things through our own lenses.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-04-03 06:21PM | 0 recs
Re: BO's Campaign Should Also Condemn the Comments

You guys keep saying that and I hardly ever see it, except for the random and quite obvious troll diaries that pop up now and again.

by Mags 2008-04-03 07:35PM | 0 recs
Re: BO's Campaign Should Also Condemn the Comments

Why should Obama make a statement regarding what some hack political radio host says about Clinton during what appears to be a comedy routine?

I agree that Rhodes deserves what she gets, but why are you holding Obama responsible for her? She's an adult acting of her own accord. She's not a part of his campaign.

by tessellated 2008-04-03 11:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

That's a shame.  

What she said was wrong and she's rightly being punished.  

Perhaps some feel that to give in on even a single point, even one such as this where there's a pretty clear "right" and "wrong," is to lose.  

I don't, however.  What RR said was wrong.  No skin off my back to admit it.

by freedom78 2008-04-03 06:08PM | 0 recs
I refuse to check out DKos...

anymore. I stop blogging at Kos about a month ago. I'm hoping that Kos will lose a lot of traffic/business/advertisment because in my opinion, that's what they deserve.

by soyousay 2008-04-03 06:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.
Those comments are very disappointing, but not unexpected.

My favorite line from Scarface is, "I always tell the truth. Even when I lie." Gotta admit, I love Tony.

by sricki 2008-04-03 06:28PM | 0 recs
The blog that I saw

had a tip jar with around 4 tips in it from 75+ comments.  Also some of us who would have reacted with troll ratings don't have troll rating abilities. I would have busted out a few from the comments (all by the 4 people who tipped and the diarist the rest of the people who posted agreed with the sentiment here)

I can say that it was right that she be suspended and hopefully she makes a fully apology because you should not be able to say that about any woman regardless of who she is.  I don't care if it was Ann Coulter or Mother Theresa (note I am only comparing as they are polar opposites), a woman is not a whore and should not have such a name be levelled at her by anyone.

by Student Guy 2008-04-03 06:38PM | 0 recs
Let. It. Go.

This is not Daily Kos. Stop the endless whining and crying and moaning and screaming and yelling and harping and screetching and endless babbling and blather about another blog. For christ's sake - more time is spent yapping about Daily Kos and Markos than any other issue here at MyDD. Get a life. It's a blog. Not the foundation which holds this country together like you make it out to be. You sound like an envious, petulant toddler with this boring crap.

by TheFullBerry 2008-04-03 07:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Let. It. Go.

Get a life?  You say "Get a life?"  But you're the one who apparently spends the major part of every day here blithely troll rating even the most innocuous comments such as "Go Hillary."

Get a life!  

by miriam 2008-04-03 08:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

seriously--not one of them made the recommended list.  When you have that many users, you're likely to get some flies in the ointment.

by thereisnospoon 2008-04-03 07:13PM | 0 recs
have to say, it's kind of odd that you

assign collective intent regarding the appearance of diaries on any one topic....I always thought the place was akin to cat herding.

I actually found the majority of comments and the majority of recs went to posters who agreed with Rhodes suspension or at least were pretty appalled at her remarks.

Her remarks were stupid and brainless and she got what she deserved.  If you added up the pro and con comments, you'd find most agree, especially when you look at the recs the anti-rhodes comments got.

by ksh 2008-04-03 07:18PM | 0 recs
This diary is BS

There were plenty of commenters who expressed outrage about what Rhodes said. You cherry picked comments to make your point. Bad form, Peter.

by Quarterbackjoe 2008-04-03 07:45PM | 0 recs
Actually, a couple of points...

1.) There are no "cherry-picked comments" in the diary. In fact, there isn't a single line from any comment on DKos in my diary here. Everything quoted in my diary about DKos diaries on this subject is pulled directly from the diaries, themselves.

2.) Having been on DKos for almost two years, and knowing they have a rule that says they don't allow more than a couple of diaries per day on the same subject, I'm wondering how they could have nine diaries on this subject in 18 hours?

Then again, with all the redundant stuff there these days--often resembling a high school football lockerroom at halftime--I guess they threw that "rule" out with so many others around the end of '07, too.

And, any comparisons between DKos and MyDD on this particular issue are out of bounds. The rule for redundant diaries doesn't appear here, last I checked.

But, as Jerome so clearly understands, running a highly-trafficked political blog brings with it certain responsibilities these days. Primarily: a responsibility to one's mission statement.

IMHO, nowadays, I'd have to say that--by a light year--Jerome's much more in tune with this tacit reality than his fellow co-author at the other joint.

There's a responsibility to party unity that comes with this territory. It transcends support for any particular candidate, certainly in a national/presidential race.

Jerome gets that. Markos doesn't.

This truth is further compounded by the difference in audience size between the two places, too. If audience size is any prerequisite to maintaining a sense of responsibility that's bigger than any one person's ego, then Markos should be at least 50 times more responsible about these types of things than Jerome, too. From where I'm sitting, it's almost exactly the opposite.

by bobswern 2008-04-03 08:46PM | 0 recs

gone un-mentioned in this diary are the scores of comments saying the exact opposite thing.



by Quicklund 2008-04-03 08:18PM | 0 recs
Re: And

You're exactly right.  I went to Kos, searched "Rhodes", found the diary that announced her suspension, and these are the first, unedited comment titles on that post:

* [new]  I hope they fire her ass.  by Pager, Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 01:35:26 PM PDT (11+ / 0-)

      * [new] She always annoyed the hell out of me by BoiseBlue, Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 01:37:22 PM PDT (5+ / 0-)
            * [new] Ditto here. by Pager, Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 01:41:30 PM PDT (5+ / 0-)
                  * [new] Ditto is a Rush word! by angrytoyrobot, Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 01:57:25 PM PDT (0+ / 0-)
                        * [new] I should probably just be fired. by Pager, Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 02:09:13 PM PDT (1+ / 0-)
                              * [new] I don't like it when she by Seattlite, Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 02:19:24 PM PDT (4+ / 0-)
                                    * [new] Well said. by Pager, Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 02:24:41 PM PDT (1+ / 0-)
                                    * [new] Worse, when she dress down a rightie... by Chris Andersen, Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 02:26:57 PM PDT (3+ / 0-)
                                          * [new] It doesn't help us by Seattlite, Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 02:38:10 PM PDT (1+ / 0-)
            * [new] Me three by Urizen, Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 01:52:58 PM PDT (4+ / 0-)

by Mostly 2008-04-03 11:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

I don't know.  Using a couple of diaries that never made the rec list on daily kos to slam the sight is a bit much.  Two days ago, this sight had a diary comparing a possible democratic presidential nominee to a racist and it made the rec list and stayed there for almost 2 days.  I never heard comment from Jerome on the matter.  I don't expect to hear comment on kos for 2 diaries that didn't even make the rec list there.

There was also a diary on the rec list here yesterday about the disappeared and how everyone should have free speech to say whatever they want on a proprietary blog in defense of another diarist who had compared Obama followers to Hitler youth.  I think it was reccommended by the diarist.  hmmm. . .

by shalca 2008-04-03 08:42PM | 0 recs
I guess 1,295 comments doesn't count?

1,295 comments among nine diaries?

480 comments on "spicecake69's" diary alone?

(This particular diary was among the worst of the worst, too.)

I believe it's almost physically impossible for a diary on DKos to have that many comments without it also being on the Rec list.

I could be wrong about this, but I don't think so.

by bobswern 2008-04-03 08:54PM | 0 recs
Re: I guess 1,295 comments doesn't count?

You're wrong about this.

Diaries make the rec list by being "recommended".

by Mostly 2008-04-03 11:23PM | 0 recs
Sure it's possible

I've seen diaries where people hang out for quite a while and post many comments apiece--it becomes a virtual chat room up and down the thread.  I reckon I've seen some diaries grow to over 200 comments and weren't on the Rec list.  

I grant that 480 would be a lot.  You got me  wondering...

As you pointed out, the diary only had 12 recommenders. (It currently has 28).  

That's not a lot, especially for a diary posted in the early afternoon.  By comparison, a new diary over there with less than 100 comments has about 150 recommenders.  Another new diary just got on the list. It has about 30 comments and 29 recommenders--and it is easier to get on the list in the wee hours.

It also doesn't have a current or previous "Recommended" tag which suggests it didn't make the Rec list.  

Still it does seem odd for that diary to collect 480 comments.  Most of those comments seem to have occurred within the 45 minutes with a huge drop-off of comments after 70 minutes.  

My guess is that the diary attracted attention on the new diary list because it quickly had a large number of comments, and it does seem to have multiple chat-like comments by many individuals.

Anyway, to your point, I think it is "physically" possible and that diary may be an unexpected example.

by sawgrass727 2008-04-03 11:39PM | 0 recs

Oh!  We're gonna play "post the most egregious things posted on a public blog".  Bill O'Reilly pioneered that about a year ago.  Looking forward to what research might dig up from this site.

by mikeinsf 2008-04-03 09:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

I think making connection between not agreeing with some people opinions and Scarface/enjoying blowing someones brain out, is more than a little bit sick.

by hebi 2008-04-03 11:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

This is right out of O'Reilly's School for Gifted Rhetoricians.  You know, I've defended this site on DKos for the exact same baseless accusations - someone takes a diary or the most offensive post that they can find and then presents it as if the entire website endorses that viewpoint.  Of course, the vast number of additional members over there makes this argument even more ludicrous.

by rfahey22 2008-04-04 05:39AM | 0 recs
&quot;A diary?&quot; &quot;A comment?&quot;

First off, it's about six or seven pro-Randi Rhodes diaries being posted before the first anti-Randi Rhodes diary even appeared.

More importantly, this diary's about the respective blog's management styles.

by bobswern 2008-04-04 05:56AM | 0 recs
Re: &quot;A diary?&quot; &quot;A comment?&quot;

How the hell does that make your argument any more cogent?  Here's one of the first posts on the diary you cite from fireflynw (which received numerous replies echoing the same sentiment):

I hope they fire her ass. (11+ / 0-)
Recommended by:incertus, moira977, oldjohnbrown, Urizen, Seattlite, Hardhat Democrat, feebog, empathy, lgmcp, BoiseBlue, MKSinSA

I find her rude, arrogant, abrupt and typically lacking in facts before she opens her mouth. To call two women (let alone two Democratic women) such a vile name deserves the appropriate response.

Also, I read your linked article and see no mention, hint or otherwise, of alcohol. Perhaps I am just speed reading through and missed it or is it in another article?

Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar. Edward R. Murrow

by Pager on Thu Apr 03, 2008 at 01:35:26 PM PDT


Of course, all of this is beside the point, since it is impossible to infer group intent on open blogs such as this one and DKos, but I guess you have to rely on the diaries themselves and not the comments because that would present a far cloudier picture even under your own flawed standards.  

As for management styles, I don't know what you're driving at.  I know that DKos devotes far more front page space to issues such as FISA, the statements of various Bush officials, statewide races, and even environmental and scientific developments than does MyDD, as do the users who post there.  I don't expect the front pagers or users there to consider the same subjects worthy of front-page material as do the people here.

by rfahey22 2008-04-04 07:00AM | 0 recs
Since when has the discourse...

...on any reasonable, sane blog revolved around an active discussion about validating--let alone for one diary but in this case it was more than a half dozen diaries--the concept that it's legitimate to call one of the two major candidates for President in our party a "fucking whore?"

(I won't even mention Ferraro other than in this one sentence. I will reiterate, this was an Air America-related event, however. If Randi wasn't working for Air America, she wouldn't have been there being facilitated with a forum to say what she said.)

There was an active series comprised of more than a half-dozen diaries on "the leading progressive blog" attempting to validate Randi Rhodes comments. (There were also a couple, perhaps three, diaries posted later that took the anti-Randi Rhodes position.)

Forget about the comments underneath these diaries. I really don't give a damn about them. (There were hundreds of comments in these diaries in support of Randi Rhodes, btw; there were hundreds more against her; but there were hundreds of vitriolic comments saying this was appropriate language!)

My question is: What kind of blog manager/owner is it that--at least one that should be taking a responsible approach to Democratic Party unity--can rationalize that this type of commentary is acceptable and appropriate?

At what point is it appropriate to draw the line? If not in this case, when? (And, we're not talking "one diary," we're talking about many diaries over a few hours, which in and of itself is a violation of DKos' policies.)

And, please, spare me the "right to free speech" mantra. Inherently, there is no "free speech" on these blogs; they're moderated by their owners.

Again, if a line isn't drawn about something like this event, then where IS it appropriate to draw the line. We're not talking about "linkage." We're not talking about "implication" or "inference." We're not talking "guilt by association" or "taking liberties." We're talking about a national media figure, at her media outlet's-sponsored event calling a major presidential candidate of our a "fucking whore!"

What kind of blog owner can simultaneously rationalize that it's okay to promote and validate this type of behavior while simultaneously claiming to be acting in the best interests of the Party?

IMHO, it's impossible to take both sides of the argument here.

Hey, if Markos came out and said something to the effect of: "I no longer give a shit about the welfare of the Democratic Party," then I wouldn't even have gone to the trouble to post my diary here. Or, same thing would apply if it was in his mission statement that, "We don't moderate discussions; you may say anything you wish in your writing, and it won't be censored," my same sentiments would apply.

But, if a blog owner's--and just about all blog owners do this--going to take responsibility for the reality that in 2008, there's a certain amount public responsibility that comes hand-in-hand with their audience size and the reality that they're influencers of the media and the CW, then what Markos is doing now is pretty damn close to yelling, "Fire!" in a crowded building right now, again, IMHO.

It's just pathetically irresponsible of him to let happen what happened on his blog over the past 36 hours with regard to this blatantly gross and offensive issue.

Where is the responsibility being demonstrated with regard to maintaining some modicum of decorum and reason? IMHO, nowhere. And, via demonstrating via example--not one or two instances but numerous flagrant examples in a short period of time--that's the point of my diary moreso than anything else.    

by bobswern 2008-04-04 07:33AM | 0 recs
Obama Supports Rhodes

http://my.barackobama.com/page/event/det ail/4r2cc

The famous Randi Rhodes event is on the Obama web page as an Obama sanctioned event. Unite us my
a--, just like W, I guess.

Since he controls the page content, it is a tacit endorsement of Randi and her commentary. She is a prominent and public member of the Obamedia. Absent scrubbing the page WITH a public denunciation, he supports the actions of his media servant, Rhodes. Can't wait for him to ask for the termination of Rhodes as he did for Imus. Failing that will prove again, hypocrisy is central to the bamboozling of America which is the Obamanation of America.

by Newport News Dem 2008-04-04 08:59AM | 0 recs
Re: Obama Supports Rhodes

Holy cow.  You are right.  

by JustJennifer 2008-04-04 09:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Over. The. Top.

Obama should speak out against the hate speech of Randi Rhodes. Does he think blacks are the only people who have hate speech directed against them? I do not understand why he does not speak out against misogyny, especially being the father of two daughters. I can only assume it is because he has benefited from it.

I am so alienated by the sexist Hillary hate from his supporters that I cannot stand the thought of voting for him.

by cc 2008-04-04 04:03PM | 0 recs


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