Breaking: Senate GOP Torpedoes Auto Bailout!

The US Senate failed to muster enough votes in a "test-vote," this evening, to bailout the U.S. auto industry. The Senate's failure to pass the bill, which CNN analyst and long-time political pundit David Gergen just referred to as "irresponsible," all but insures the unemployment of at least another 1.5+/- million Americans in coming months.

After following US Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson off of a proverbial cliff, just over 70 days ago, by passing what now amounts to an $8 trillion (potentially almost doubling our total national debt in one fell swoop) bailout, with most of those funds totally unaccounted for, even now, as I write this, the US Senate tonight decided they'd demonstrate just how tough they really were, in terms of protecting US taxpayer's financial interests, by running an entire industry into the ground through even greater acts of negligence than those we witnessed at the end of September.

These travesties of "governance" just get greater with every passing day.

Here's the story: "Automaker bailout falls apart in Senate. Republicans torpedo House-passed measure."

Automaker bailout falls apart in Senate.
Republicans torpedo House-passed measure.

By Robert Schroeder, MarketWatch
Last update: 10:45 p.m. EST Dec. 11, 2008

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- A $14 billion bailout deal to aid the struggling Big Three automakers fell apart in the Senate on Thursday night, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nevada said.
"There's too much difference between the two sides," Reid said.
Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky said the sticking point was whether the United Autoworkers union was willing to agree to a parity pay structure as part of the deal to assist Ford Motor Co.,  and privately held Chrysler LLC.

It was unclear what the next step would be. The measure passed by the House of Representatives and sent to the House reportedly had the support of President Bush.
Senate Republicans earlier had made it clear they would block the House legislation.
Earlier in the day, McConnell, the Senate's top Republican, said he'd oppose the House-passed bill, making its passage unlikely in the Senate and Reid acknowledged a vote on it wouldn't pass.

"This proposal isn't nearly tough enough," he said. "It's pretty clear that there's no need to vote on the House measure, because it's pretty clear there aren't enough votes to pass that," Reid said.

Senators including Bob Corker, R-Tenn., and John Ensign, R-Nevada, were working on a plan that would give bondholders 30 cents on the dollar to help reduce the Big Three's debt load, bring wages into line with companies like Nissan and scrap union payments to workers still getting nearly full pay four years after retiring.

Acknowledging the opposition to the bill, Reid invited Republicans to offer their own version, but said Thursday morning that if no compromise can be reached, he'd bring a final vote to the floor Friday.

"We have danced this tune long enough," Reid said on the Senate floor Thursday.

The $14 billion loan package easily passed the House on Wednesday night, but its fate in the Senate was far less certain from the start. Democrats enjoy a slim 50-49 majority, and Reid said that the auto measure will need 60 votes to pass. Republican Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama had threatened to filibuster the bill.

Uncertainty about the bill sent the stocks of Ford and GM down Thursday. Ford and GM ended about 10% lower at $2.90 and $4.12, respectively.

President-elect Barack Obama also repeated a call to aid the companies.

"I believe our government should provide short-term assistance to the auto industry to avoid a collapse, while holding the companies accountable and protecting taxpayers' interests," Obama said at a news conference in Chicago. "The legislation in Congress right now is an important step in that direction, and I am hopeful that a final agreement can be reached this week."

The bill passed by the House on Thursday would create a White House-chosen "car czar" for the auto industry, empowered to hold the companies accountable for developing long-term viability plans.

The car czar would be able to require immediate repayment of the loans if the companies don't make adequate progress by Feb. 15. Final restructuring plans would be due March 31.
The legislation also would stop shareholder dividends, along with "golden parachutes" and bonuses for executives. The government would also get warrants for nonvoting stock equal to 20% of the value of the loan it makes to each company.

The $14 billion is a long way from the $34 billion initially sought by the Big Three. Of the three companies, GM and Chrysler are in the greatest need of cash. Ford says it is seeking a long-term line of credit and doesn't need money in the short term.

I'm beyond words. So, I'll just stop writing now. I think I'm going to be sick.

Tags: Chrysler, Detroit, Ford, General Motors, US Senate (all tags)



Re: Breaking: Senate GOP Torpedoes Bailout!

And notice how it's the southern state Repugs who are trying to stop the bailout and then notice where most foreign auto plants are.....the south. Toyoto, Nissan, BMW and Volkswagen all have plants located in southern states. This is an obvious attempt to try and punish blue states where most U.S. auto plants are located. How repulsive that these people only care about whats good for some Americans.

by venician 2008-12-11 06:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Breaking: Senate GOP Torpedoes Bailout!

I don't think its related to german cars, or other foreign cars. Albeit some nice BMW's are getting made in McCain's safe haven of SC.

You're forgetting Atlanta is where we assemble for Ford Motor company.  No. Its more related to the structure of the deal. I think. The GOP doesn't want to spend any more money.

They've already spent enough on their fat cat lobbyist friends. Now they want to at least look like they haven't spent more money than in the history of the United States.

by Trey Rentz 2008-12-12 04:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Breaking: Senate GOP Torpedoes Bailout!


They want to break the unions.

Pure and simple.

by Bush Bites 2008-12-12 04:11AM | 0 recs
F**king fools! n/t

by bobswern 2008-12-11 06:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Breaking: Senate GOP Torpedoes Auto Bailout!

I have no problem with this vote and neither do most Americans.

The fool is the diary writer who is quoting something that is simply untrue: that this guarantees 1.5 million more unemployed... Huh?

That presumes nothing passes in the next couple of weeks. I predict something will...I mean who says its this bill or nothing?

We shouldn't be pressured into passing bailouts left and right.. and why is the job of an autoworker more deserving of bailout than anyone elses job?

The ultimate responsible parties here are the US automakers that have been making cars no one wants to buy. Foreign automakers do just fine with the cars they build IN THE UNITED STATES WITH AMERICAN WORKERS so there is no excuse for Ford, GM , Chrysler not to be able to make cars... I mean come on! US carmakers were doing pretty bad before the US economic downturn!

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 07:20PM | 0 recs
You're attempting to rationalize the irrational.

Speaking of irrational, watch the markets tomorrow.

As a former Michigan re-election campaign press secretary (and campaign press liaison to the UAW) for a sitting, Democratic US President, I can say that anyone that starts off a comment with the following sentence needs a little reality check:

I have no problem with this vote and neither do most Americans.

Last I checked, most Democrats in the Senate would have voted in favor of the passage of this bailout, per how they indicated they would vote in the "test vote" in the Senate, tonight. Furthermore, this is also the sentiment of most of the Democrats in the House, too.

So, most Democratic elected officials would have a problem with your comment.

And, it's all downhill from there.

By the way, when GM and Chrysler both indicate that they'll probably seek bankruptcy now, most likely before Obama takes office on January 20th, effectively trashing the UAW in the process of doing so, I have to ask just exactly what planet you're on with a comment like that, in general.

Most Americans, whether they realize it now or not, have a problem with this (or they will real soon even though they don't realize it now).


by bobswern 2008-12-11 07:39PM | 0 recs
And, please don't quote any polls...

...showing how Americans aren't in favor of the bailout. They're meaningless.

This is a very human story, in terms of the suffering that will result from the Senate's actions tonight, too.

by bobswern 2008-12-11 07:42PM | 0 recs
Re: And, please don't quote any polls...

There are many people suffering. Try the 500,000 plus who lost their jobs in November. I don't see anyone bailing their jobs out.

I believe the government should not necessarily allow GM, Chrysler and Ford to go under but at the same time it should not be held hostage by the carmakers and Wall Street. Wall Street has been consistently going down despite bailout after bailout so the idea that another- relatively minor- bailout is what Wall Street is looking for seems unrealistic. But guess what? If Wall Street wants the US government to bail out every single industry that is threatened well it just ain't going to happen.

Instead of bailing them out with billions why not buy them out? According to Michael Moore you could buy their stock up for 3 billion. Why should we give them any more? And why should we allow the managers who have run the companies into the ground to continue to do so..

Your diary and posts are not very well thought out and your dismissiveness and intolerance of those who think differently does not do you any credit.

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 08:21PM | 0 recs
Re: And, please don't quote any polls...

GM alone has a market cap of 2.5 billion.  Ford has a market cap of about 7 billion.  Chrysler, who knows since they're private.  Maybe you could have them for free provided you're prepared to assume their debts - but of course, that's what makes it not such a bargain, hmm?  I'm honestly not sure what Michael Moore is talking about.

The thing is, you can get fooled by reading blogs where every other person knows exactly what the auto companies are doing wrong, but actually there's not this awesome management team just twiddling their thumbs somewhere waiting for the government to put them in charge of the Big Three.  Although if it comes to that, I'd be willing to give Lee Iacocca another shot.

by Steve M 2008-12-11 09:46PM | 0 recs
I agree 100% with everything you've stated!

Having worked as an engineer for 25yrs - when my firm went bankrupt, I got a 2 week notice which I had to work, if I wanted to get paid. Worse, because I was on assignment, I had to pay my own way back.

These union guys have to realize that they will have to make concessions just like everybody else had to do, who were not protected by union contracts in other industries - they have to accept that it's a new world with new rules if they want to stay employed.

I'm completely against helping Chrysler - this is no longer a car company per se but a holding by a hedge fund and taxpayer dollars should not go to help investors who gambled and lost! This bail out craze is bankrupting the country...

by suzieg 2008-12-12 12:56AM | 0 recs

but I remember the last days of the hub system at Lambert International Airport in St. Louis.  TWA's and American's financial health was dependent on a new round of union concessions every 3-6 months.  They have an empty main terminal in St. Louis right now.  It's the most inconvenient airport to fly into.  It's also not good if unions get de facto broken by having to consistently renegotiate.

They have to shed their social services on the Feds beyond the UAW getting the health care.  They need to research alt fuels/hybrids at the PRODUCTION AND DISTRIBUTION LEVEL, not just the concept level.  

by AZphilosopher 2008-12-12 06:18AM | 0 recs
Re: You're attempting to rationalize the irrationa

Huh? First of all your troll rating of my comment is a violation of MyDD policy. I suggest you refresh yourself on the policy and take it back before I report you.

Second of all the fact that most democratic politicians are for this does not mean most americans are for it. Most democratic politicians were also for the 700 billion dollar bailout and we know most americans are against it. A majority of democratic politicians don't always represent a majority of americans. Of course its clear you don't care what americans think or respect their opinions ("whether they realize it or not"....).

But there is no point to discussing this with someone as intolerant of dissenting opinions such as yourself..

Poor diary, poor comments and even worse on applying the ratings.

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 08:15PM | 0 recs
When you call diarist a "fool"... you then go on to contort the reality that there will not be any opportunity for this to be reversed prior to GM and Chrysler declaring bankruptcy (because neither has the resources to make it to January 20th; and read Sen. Reid's quote in my comments above), you certainly do qualify for the first troll rating I've handed out in many, many months according to blog guidelines.

Also, there's one other person that strongly disagrees with you...take a guess who that is?

For someone who's only been here for six or seven weeks (I see one brief diary from you in this entire time), you've made a bunch of ad hominem attacks against me in your, yes, you deserve all that you dish out back at you and then some.

by bobswern 2008-12-11 08:34PM | 0 recs
Re: When you call diarist a "fool"...

Writing somebody is a fool is not an insult! Foolish is not a bad word!

Its not worth arquing with you as you are an intolerant person of people with different opinions.

There's a lot more I could say but why are convinced you know it all already!

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 08:40PM | 0 recs
Your rants indict you. n/t

by bobswern 2008-12-11 08:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Your rants indict you. n/t

You lost your cool Bob because you read something you really disagree with but my having a very different opinion on an issue that is clearly very  important to you is not grounds for a troll rating.

I hate to think you take such umbrage at being called a fool when you yourself are calling people fools left and right.

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 08:52PM | 0 recs
You grossly distort my comments.

I call the GOP senators "f**king fools!" Exactly whom, other than them, do I refer to as fools? Certainly, I don't say that about you, nor anyone else in this diary.

So, again, stop it with the troll behavior.

This is classic diary disruption behavior on your part.

by bobswern 2008-12-11 09:18PM | 0 recs
Re: You grossly distort my comments.

Why are they fools? They knew Bush will cover for them! They are politically smart! They do have voters to answer to  no matter how stupid you may think they are for being against yet another bailout.

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 09:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Well even if the UAW goes under

They will cheer now...

But in a month.... when unemployment hits 14%...

They will be saying, "Why didn't the government step in and DO something?"

Watch and see... Americans are like that...

by LordMike 2008-12-11 10:23PM | 0 recs
Re: They'll blame the Democrats

Well, it wasn't the democrats who voted against this bill, it was the republicans... so, you can blame the UAW for not accepting their union being busted, OK... but, the democrats all voted for it..

The GOP will have this one hanging around their neck for awhile... They are the ones who made a big stink about it...  They'll get the credit, or the blame...

And it won't be looking good for awhile... hopefully, the automakers can survive a few more weeks... get some TARP money and all will be well...

by LordMike 2008-12-11 10:34PM | 0 recs
That's not true - not all democrats voted yes - 20

voted with the republicans against it!

by suzieg 2008-12-12 01:00AM | 0 recs
Re: That's not true - not all

In the house... only 4 voted against it in the Senate...  and, believe me, those 4 senators (one of them being Tester) will be getting an earful from the netroots and ZERO more money from me, ever...  And the house version passed.  The Senate version technically passed, too, but couldn't pass cloture...

by LordMike 2008-12-12 02:56AM | 0 recs
Re: They'll blame the Democrats

Also, people who are into that kind of thinking can never be reached...  I doubt they would vote democratic anyhow...

by LordMike 2008-12-11 10:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Well even if the UAW goes under

There is a lot of union hate out there, and the UAW will be blamed as always, but let's put it this way...

If a good bailout (and this one wasn't) passed, it might annoy a bunch of potential democratic voters for awhile in the east...

But, if GM goes down and the democrats get blamed for it, then millions of democratic voters will be lost in the midwest FOREVER.  Permanently gone...

Annoyed voters come back... ones who live in an area that received an economic nuclear bomb without anyone stopping it?  They are never going to vote democratic again...

And without the Big 10 states (the upper midwest), Democrats would never win anything ever again...

The tradeoff is simple... annoy some voters or lose others permanently.

The democrats did what they needed to do...

If Bush ends up giving TARP funds then it's the best of all worlds...

Ironically, nrafter, I'm with you about being happy this bill failed.  It was so bad that the company stands a better chance in court compared to the ridiculous provisions in the bill...

by LordMike 2008-12-11 10:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Well even if the UAW goes under

45% of Americans voted for Sarah Palin

You do what you have to do... allowing 1/3 of the country to go into ruin is just not acceptable... even if you do want to court Sarah Palin voters...

by LordMike 2008-12-11 10:36PM | 0 recs

Question here:

Most car dealers I've known have been pretty big Repub donors.

Why are they not pressuring the Repubs on this?

by Bush Bites 2008-12-12 04:02AM | 0 recs
What about...

...making the Michigan codel eat some crow publicly as a condition for the money (especially RE: CAFE standards)?

I'd at least like some schadenfreude and Congressional/lobbyist heads on pikes if we are going to do this.

I know Sen. Levin and Rep. Dingell probably wouldn't ever agree but they're safe so what does it matter?

I don't have a problem with the bailout, but I'd like this to be a cautionary tale for lawmakers.

by AZphilosopher 2008-12-12 06:25AM | 0 recs
Re: What about...

I want to make clear that I meant metaphorical heads and metaphorical pikes.  That phrase shouldn't be read literally.  I'm just a philosopher, I don't want PATRIOT problems.

by AZphilosopher 2008-12-12 06:57AM | 0 recs
From the top of DKos and Meteor Blades...

Auto Bailout Collapses  In Senate:

"We've tried very, very hard to get to a point where we can legislate for the automobile industry. ... I'm terribly disappointed that we are not able to arrive at a conclusion," Majority Leader Reid said, adding that, after the vote, the Senate's business for the year was done. "When this vote is over with tonight, it's over with. ... I dread looking at Wall Street tomorrow."

by bobswern 2008-12-11 08:07PM | 0 recs
Re: From the top of DKos and Meteor Blades...

Reid is such a major fucking useless piece of pontificating do-nothing garbage.

Give that useless piece of shit the hook right now.

by Bush Bites 2008-12-12 04:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Breaking: Senate GOP Torpedoes Auto Bailout!

I disagree with you, but you shouldn't have been TR'ed, IMO.

by Dreorg 2008-12-11 08:31PM | 0 recs
No, the t.r. was righteous.

Calling diarist a fool qualifies as a troll comment...and then making ad hominem attacks and incorrect statements to support the comment just adds fuel to the fire.

This was the first t.r. I've handed out in a very long time.

by bobswern 2008-12-11 08:37PM | 0 recs
Re: No, the t.r. was righteous.

No. Calling someone a fool does not qualify for a troll rating.

You are an intolerant censorious person. That is not an attack but a fact proven by your troll rating of my comment.

Why put up a diary if you're not willing to discuss?

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 08:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Whatever passes at this point

Japanese auto worker employees will soon become pathetic wretches when the UAW is no longer around to scare the bejesus out of the Japanese owners.

by Bush Bites 2008-12-12 03:59AM | 0 recs
I guess the GOP really has given up on MI

and perhaps OH as well.  Can we start referring to Shelby, Sessions, et. al. as (R-Tokyo)?

by JJE 2008-12-11 08:42PM | 0 recs
Re: I guess the GOP really has given up on MI

Good one JJE (R-TOKYO)

by canadian 2008-12-12 12:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Breaking: Senate GOP Torpedoes Auto Bailout!


As part of their effort to urge skeptical Republicans to back the deal, Bush officials made clear that if Congress didn't act, the White House would have to step in to save Detroit from collapse with funds from the Troubled Asset Relief Program, according to the sources familiar with the conversations.

One of the sources said that a White House official made it clear to a GOP senator that would be the worst option, because the loan could go to the auto companies with few or no requirements along with it.

The sources asked not to be named because of the sensitivity of private conversations.

Democrats pressed the White House from the start to help Detroit by using some of the $700 billion for the financial sector, but the White House and Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson refused.

"I would only hope that the president, who has worked so well with us for the past several weeks, would now consider using the TARP money," Reid said after Thursday night's vote.

by Steve M 2008-12-11 08:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Breaking: Senate GOP Torpedoes Auto Bailout!

Of course this isn't over!

Unfortunately the diarist wants to make it out to be that as a direct consequence of this vote 1.5 million Americans will lose their jobs, Wall Street will crater (its been doing so well with all the previous bailouts), etc.

This is just not a well thought out diary. Congress could always come back into session if need be, congress was always aware Bush could tap these funds,etc.

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 08:49PM | 0 recs
It's too bad you have to turn this...

...comment thread into a personal attack upon me, from comment one from you and then onward.

Harry Reid says, "It's over." And, unless Bush does put up some bucks in the next few days, it is over.

And, the diary is about breaking news. So, other than adding a few opinionated comments at the top of it, it is what it is. I'm providing links for my comments.

Your comments appear to be strictly ad hominem attacks; and then inaccurate ones, at that. Little more.

I won't be responding to any other comments from you in this's a waste of time.

by bobswern 2008-12-11 08:58PM | 0 recs
Re: It's too bad you have to turn this...

The idea that Bush would tap other funds to save the car makers has been bandied about for weeks..

Partly because republicans knew this would almost surely happen if Congress did nothing they felt liberated not to do anything.

You are just not very well informed.

I suggest next time you stay on the sidelines and let those who are a little better informed write the diaries.

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 09:03PM | 0 recs
More ad hominem, personal attacks...

...from someone who's been here for less than seven weeks, and who's written all of one small diary?

Your comments throughout this comment thread are classic, disruptive troll behavior. Virtually textbook, in fact.

by bobswern 2008-12-11 09:08PM | 0 recs
Re: More ad hominem, personal attacks...

If anyone is refusing to address substance its you. How long I have been here has no relevance. I would also suggest that the fact that I have not received any troll ratings other than from you (but dozens of 2's) tonight speaks louder than your comments.

I could go and look at your posts but why would I?

I'm here talking about issues! You just don't like views that are different from your own.


You said that 1.5 million people would lose their jobs cause of this vote. WRONG.

You now say that the car makers should be given the money even though they are going to declare bankruptcy anyways. This doesn't even pass the laugh test.

You discount the views of Americans (say straight out: forget about the polls!).

You troll rate people with differing opinions.

I mean come on Bob!

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 09:14PM | 0 recs
This is classic troll behavior.

1.) Disrupt the comments string.

2.) Call out the diarist with slurs.

3.) Distort the comments the other party makes to try to build a case that doesn't exist.

4.) Repeat the same m.o., from the first comment onwards.

by bobswern 2008-12-11 09:23PM | 0 recs
Re: This is classic troll behavior.

I don't take kindly to being troll rated for no reason. I wrote the diarist was a fool.. Big whopdedoo! Being called a fool ain't the end of the world.

You are now accusing me of slurs???

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 09:27PM | 0 recs
Well, that's quite good to hear...

...but, until it happens, it's just speculation. I really hope it's true, however.

On a related note, I've heard from folks inside the auto industry that there is a strategy being discussed as a possible option which has Chrysler and GM taking the bailout funds and then declaring bankruptcy in a few weeks, anyway. With the goal in management's mindset being that in order to actually meet government-mandated guidelines regarding employee pay being in-line with the non-union auto shops, the most expedient way of achieving that is guessed it...trash the UAW at the end of the day, anyhow.

by bobswern 2008-12-11 08:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, that's quite good to hear...

One minute you are saying that everyone who is against this bailout is a fool (troll rating them, etc.) and dooming millions of people - not to mention the all important Wall Street- and the next you say that even if the bailout is passed its still going to lead to this anyways?

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 08:57PM | 0 recs
One more time...

...the only troll rating I've handed out in a very long time was to you in this thread. That's it. So, spare me the "them" comment.

I'm reporting what I read and hear.

And, yes, I do believe there's a good chance they'll end up in bankruptcy at some point down the road, regardless of what happens. But, allowing that to happen, in light of the disparity with regard to who's received taxpayer funds to date, versus who has not, is an outrage.

$8 trillion-plus for Wall Street, with no accountability, and Senate GOP'ers try to justify not supporting more than two million workers for a paltry $14 billion?

That is a real crime.

by bobswern 2008-12-11 09:04PM | 0 recs
Re: One more time...

I lets piss away 14$ billion because we've already made mistakes..

How does that make any sense?

Why not buy the car companies for 3 billion and let someone run them who knows how to do so?

You just haven't thought this through much...

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 09:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Well, that's quite good to hear...

I'm not sure what advantage they would gain in that scenario, and it certainly wouldn't win them any goodwill from the public.  Surely the bailout loan is not dischargeable in bankruptcy...?

by Steve M 2008-12-11 09:04PM | 0 recs
It gets 2 million people...

...through a holiday season and a cold winter, perhaps. If we can hand over $8 trillion in cash and "supports" to Wall Street, without even knowing where much of that went, surely we can support a dying industry with $14 billion in bridge funds during a very difficult time.

There's a tremendous disparity here, in terms of both where this auto bailout money's going and how heavily it's being scrutinized versus what's happened in the past 90 days with $8 trillion in taxpayer cash and support commitments.

I would suggest reading Meteor Blades piece currently on the front page over at DKos for more insightful commentary on this.

by bobswern 2008-12-11 09:13PM | 0 recs
Re: It gets 2 million people...

I thought you were concerned that Wall Street would tank because of the no vote today?

Which is it Bob? Are you concerned about Wall Street or not?

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 09:16PM | 0 recs
How the markets move is totally irrational.

That's what I said. Again, you distort my comments. But, the markets will most likely tank tomorrow.

by bobswern 2008-12-11 09:29PM | 0 recs
Re: How the markets move is totally irrational.

Who cares?

Let them... I don't think we should pass bailout after bailout because we are scared of Wall Street! Do you?

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 09:33PM | 0 recs
Re: It gets 2 million people...

2 million people are going to be laid off by the car makers before Christmas because this bill didn't pass today??

That seems a bit exaggerated wouldn't you say?

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 09:18PM | 0 recs
Minor detail...

...I didn't say that.

by bobswern 2008-12-11 09:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Minor detail...

SUre you did.. you wrote it gets 2 million people through the holidays and that then they (car makers) will declare bankruptcy anyways..Why would anyone give the car makers money to do that? And thats what you want?

At least give the money directly to the employees, buy their company and put in some good management but to give the failed management this money so that they declare bankrupcy anyways?

by obama4presidente 2008-12-11 09:32PM | 0 recs
Union busting

The Republicans want to stamp out the last vestiges of union power. The fact is that the average union auto worker makes about $28 an hour while non-union auto workers make about $25. Starting wages since 2005 at union plants are $15 an hour.

GM's "labor" problem is that as it's been in business 100 years it's got a huge pool of retirees collecting pensions and getting healthcare benefits. Of course it's foreign competition has no healthcare costs as all industrial nations have universal healthcare. Toyota, BMW and company have almost no retirees they have not been here long enough. But when they have to many I guess the Republicans will demand they go Chapter 11 so they can screw the retirees out of their pensions.

It's amazing that even people on this blog swallow the Republican propaganda of greedy union workers being the problem. The average worker today makes less in inflation adjusted wages then he did in the 70's. The average CEO's compensation in the same time period has increases by a factor of 10. That's 1000% increase from $250,000 to $25 million! But the problem is greedy unions. If you believe that I have a bridge in Alaska to sell you.

So if the auto makers go into bankruptcy they can renege on their obligation to those greedy retirees. The solution is to take away the pensions and healthcare of retirees who busted their ass their whole lives and leave them destitute and without medical care? Welcome to the new economy.

Once the UAW is taken down you can bet the wages at non-union plants will take a dive as their won't be the danger of unionization forcing Toyota et al to keep compensation close. So once every worker in the US is making minimum wages without benefits so we can be competitive with the Chinese who is going to buy houses, flat screen TV's and cars? We have hollowed out the greatest income producing economy in the world and are on our way to being a 3rd world economy all to line the pockets of the top 2%.

Once all the American auto makers are gone do we ask the Koreans to make us some tanks if we have a war?

by hankg 2008-12-12 03:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Union busting

Just shows how effective the anti-union propaganda has been over the years.

(I used to buy it too, frankly, at least until Bush came into power and I saw what unfettered capitalism really looked like.)

Unions must have the worst PR strategy imaginable.

by Bush Bites 2008-12-12 04:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Union busting

if GM dumps the pensions it'll be onto the taxpayer backed guarantee fund. Their healthcare costs will end up being dumped on the taxpayers too. So aside from losing the industry and/or killing the UAW we'll end up picking up the tab anyway.

by Quinton 2008-12-13 01:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Breaking: Senate GOP Torpedoes Auto Bailout!

Meme for the next 50 years.

Republicans destroyed the US auto industry.

by Bush Bites 2008-12-12 03:53AM | 0 recs


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