"PUMA" Madness

(Proudly cross-posted at Clintonistas for Obama)

You know what? I'm really starting to get sick & tired of all the hubbub about "PUMA". I'm sick of the attention the right-wing noise machine is throwing at them. I'm sick of their use of uglyright-wingsmearsto attackBarack Obama, his family, and all of us Democrats (now including Bill & Hillary Clinton!) who are supporting him.

I'm so sick & tired of the "PUMA" fraud, but I don't know what to do... Or wait, may I? Yes, I think I do know what to do.

(Follow me after the flip to find out...)

If you're a true-blue Democrat like me, I'm sure you're also sick & tired of all this "PUMA" crap. You'd probably rather be out working for Obama than dealing with them. You'd probably rather be spending time & money supporting great Democrats than dealing with them. I know... I feel the same way!

So you know what? Let's put an end to the "PUMA" madness once & for all. It's time for the truth to set us all free!

If you know any Hillary Clinton Democrats who are still saddened from primary season, share the facts with them in a respectful way. Tell them who John McBush really is. Tell them what Barack Obama really stands for. Tell them where the smears against Obama are really coming from. And most importantly, share with them why Hillary Clinton herself believes it's so important for us to ensure Barack Obama wins this fall.

Oh yes, and let's not forget to continue the good work we're doing! Keep supporting Obama. Keep supporting Democrats. Keep working together to take back our country. We can do this!

We will NOT let "PUMA" get in the way of our Democratic victory. Let's keep doing what we know is right. We can win, and "PUMA" can put itself in the dustbin of history. :-)

Tags: Barack Obama, Democrats, GOP trolls, Hillary Clinton, progressive values, PUMA (all tags)

Comments

105 Comments

Tips? Flames? Suggestions?

I'm ready for it... ;-)

by atdleft 2008-07-19 01:43PM | 0 recs
Re: Tips? Flames? Suggestions?

I hate the PUMA diaries, but in the case of you guys, I can make an exception. Thing is, you folks are the only ones that realistically stand a chance at converting anyone. They don't listen to us.

by vcalzone 2008-07-19 01:46PM | 0 recs
I hate it, too...

But I guess every once in a while, we have to clean house here at MyDD and address the "PUMA problem". And hey, that's one of the reasons I keep coming back! I want to show other Hillary Clinton Democrats that "PUMA" does NOT speak for us! :-)

by atdleft 2008-07-19 01:49PM | 0 recs
I do think

we have a better chance of convincing people than long-time Obama supporters. When I start doing more outreach this fall, I think my Hillary buttons and bumper stickers are going to work to my advantage. I think our attempts to sway former Clinton supporters will come across as more sincere. I think it's easier to take that leap when you're with people who've already successfully made the transition.

And I was right, the Obama bumper sticker does compliment the Hillary ones.

by sricki 2008-07-19 01:59PM | 0 recs
I just reread my comment...

Jeez, could I possibly have said the words "I think" any more??

by sricki 2008-07-19 02:00PM | 0 recs
Re: I just reread my comment...
Not a damn thing wrong with thinking.
I think that it is a most admirable trait.
;)
by Kysen 2008-07-19 02:06PM | 0 recs
How very true...

:-D

by atdleft 2008-07-19 02:10PM | 0 recs
Certainly a rare trait nowadays.

It's just that I don't want people to KNOW I'm thinking. The cool kids in high school never thought, and they got all the best pot. ;)

by sricki 2008-07-19 02:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Certainly a rare trait nowadays.

Hmmmm....I guess I was an anomaly!
I got the rockin' grades AND the killa weed.
Actually, the combo of smarts and a wild streak got me into A LOT of trouble for many years.

Karma will get ya though....I am now responsible for a 14 year old clone of my younger self. And he's not even my child (he may not be blood, but I love him to death).  ;)

We are having quite the time adjusting being 'parents'. Even though I've been clean for over a decade...I feel like such a hypocrite when I'm laying down the rules for him.

So far, so good.
Hopefully this will continue to be the case.

Bah.
Adulthood is WAY overrated.

by Kysen 2008-07-19 02:39PM | 0 recs
I was more of a drinker

than a smoker, though I smoked a lot in college (preferred uppers, though). Spent my entire senior year of high school half wasted. Amazing when you ace a test you don't remember taking! That's how you get in trouble, though -- your grades stay over a 4.0, and the parents give you the benefit of the doubt. Then your boyfriend totals the car your freshman year of college after the two of you drink an entire bottle of tequila, and all hell breaks loose.

Sucks to be a grown up, though -- people stopped excusing my wildness years ago, so I had to tone it down. Not fully giving up the booze, though!

Best of luck with your kid. I know teenagers can be hard to handle. I was great until I turned 16. ;)

by sricki 2008-07-19 02:53PM | 0 recs
Re: I was more of a drinker

Actually, he is not our child.
He is the son of my best friend (and his wife!).
Kiddo has been getting into trouble lately...LOTS of trouble. Running with the 'wrong crowd'...run ins with the 'law'...the whole bag. His parents have been at their wits end....they have tried everything other than moving. They are now trying to move....while that process is evolving, kiddo has come to stay with us. We picked him up at the airport in DC a week ago. Voila! Instant teenager!

We love him. He knows it....and, I believe, he loves us too. He is just kinda messed up right now. We have no idea how long he will be staying with us....but, while he is....WE are his parents.

Crazy!

by Kysen 2008-07-19 08:13PM | 0 recs
Re: I just reread my comment...

I think, not.
.

and with those fateful words, Descartes became no more.

by January 20 2008-07-19 02:17PM | 0 recs
Re: I just reread my comment...
You are still my hero.



by Jeter 2008-07-20 01:50AM | 0 recs
I have no idea what picture you meant to post,

but I'm always glad to be somebody's hero. ;)

by sricki 2008-07-20 03:58AM | 0 recs
Re: I do think

THat's true. If Obama's people are smart, they will hire some key Hillary people in good standing and use them well.

by Pravin 2008-07-19 10:05PM | 0 recs
I second all of that

Being who I am, there is little to nothing I can say that won't make matters worse.  But ATD, sricki, psychodrew and the other real Clinton supporters have a right to say what they do - it's a family fight.

I don't have a lot of hope for most of the PUMA folks, honestly, but even so I see signs of hope for some who keep coming here (the ones that actually comment, for better or worse, not the parachute Reccers).  The only one that breaks my heart is partiotgrl - her 'come out for hillary' diary was wonderful as was the discussion thereof, and I just can't accept that she is lost to the world of the living.  If any of you folks can save her from the PUMA Pit of Doom all these diaries will be worth it.

-chris

by chrisblask 2008-07-19 01:52PM | 0 recs
Re: I second all of that

I'm inclined to agree.  It seems to me that anyone who really is a PUMA is very unlikely to be convinced by a rational argument.  No one was more pissed of than I was that my girl didn't win, but guess what?  I got over it. The idea of supporting John MCCain just because Hillary lost is so illogical that it seems a waste of resources to convert them.  Their response to the situation isn't rational, and how do you convince a person like that.

Moreover, I just don't believe PUMA's are really a factor.  I don;t watch the cable news outlets, but the only place I ever hear about them are on a few blogs and an occasional radio talk show.

If I run across one, I'll give it a shot, but I'm not optimistic about it.

by Denny Crane 2008-07-19 06:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Tips? Flames? Suggestions?

Anytime I chat with Ben Smith he says PUMAS don't exist, and that there are only two of them. That always gives me a chuckle. They are losing traction with every McCain gaffe.

by Veteran75 2008-07-19 01:59PM | 0 recs
Ignore them.

Only blog junkies even know what a so-called PUMA is.  If these brain dead halfwits want to support McCain, let them.  They don't have enough numbers to matter anyway.

by dystopianfuturetoday 2008-07-19 03:00PM | 0 recs
In about a month

they will have to make a choice.

Some of the ones that used to post here are clearly nuts: TexasDarlin is currently involved in a snipe hunt trying to prove Obama was born in Canada, and Alegre just plain flat made up the rumor about 8 delegates switching.

Some of them truly believe Clinton still has a chance. When that ends we will see what they do.

They are not representative of anything.  Occasionally fox news will interview them, but the reality is that Obama does better among Democrats than Kerry did at this point.

Really, I don't take them seriously.

by fladem 2008-07-19 08:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Tips? Flames? Suggestions?

I would just like to say (as an Obama supporter since day one...then again I am a Chicagoan), that it makes me very happy to see people that were at one time quite vociferous Hillary supporters now actively supporting the now presumptive Democratic Party nominee.

I, for one, would have made the same flip were Hillary to be our party's nominee.  I'm glad we're all on the same side again.  We all have similar ideals, and we need to work together to make sure that Barack is our next President, and that we gain more seats in the House and Senate.

The PUMA folks will hopefully come around soon, and it will be in large part due to people that supported Hillary in the primaries.  You all are performing a great service to the Democratic Party and to the progressive movement as a whole, and I thank you for it.

by doschi 2008-07-20 12:21AM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

Dude, with all respect, we're all sick of PUMA diaries.  5 times a day.  With respect.

by ChitownDenny 2008-07-19 01:51PM | 0 recs
Then will you please...

Ask the "PUMAs" to stop trolling here? When they stop trolling & stirring up sh*t, we can all move on to better topics. :-)

by atdleft 2008-07-19 01:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Then will you please...

If they stop getting the attention they seek, I have no doubt they will stop trolling.

by ChitownDenny 2008-07-19 01:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Then will you please...

oh, NOW I see! It is all "their" fault that the only diaries that get recc'ed are whiney "WHHHHAAAAA the PUMA's are so mean" ones it feels like. Got ya, you call anyone who does not march in lock-step with you a PUMA and you think that will get you in with the BHO'ers. Yep, that sure does make a lot of sense. "they" keep stopping you and all the kool kids from talkng about substance instead of the fluff and nonsense and re-writing of history and gets up-rated that is posted day in and day out...

by zerosumgame 2008-07-19 04:39PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

which is why I don't even use the name ... you're preachin' to the choir, darlin'

Dizzy

by DizzyQueen 2008-07-19 01:59PM | 0 recs
Haha...

Well, another term I now like to use is "McTroll". And sometimes, I'll combine it and say "PUMA McTroll".

But anyways, I hope our efforts to reach out will succeed as we see that beautiful "C4O Choir" continue to grow! :-)

by atdleft 2008-07-19 02:04PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

i support PUMA 100 percent. I know what John McCain stands for and I'm still voting for him. Yep, that's right, I am that big of an idiot! :)

by bsavage 2008-07-19 02:10PM | 0 recs
R U 4 reel?

Seriously...

http://www.democrats.org/johnmccain.html

Is this snark?

by atdleft 2008-07-19 02:12PM | 0 recs
Re: R U 4 reel?

No, not snark. I really don't care what you people think of me. I'm not a woman and I dont believe Clinton lost because of sexism nor do I believe she will be the nominee. I have moved on.

by bsavage 2008-07-19 02:15PM | 0 recs
To being a McTroll?

Congratulations!

Now will you please earn your McCain Points elsewhere? This is a DEMOCRATIC blog. Thanks. :-)

by atdleft 2008-07-19 02:18PM | 0 recs
Re: To being a McTroll?

That's cute, but other than the box for Pres on the ballot, I'm planning on voting blue all the way down. Last time I checked with the my local board of elections I was a Democrat. So no I dont care if you call me Mctroll or whatever.

by bsavage 2008-07-19 02:21PM | 0 recs
John McCain approves this comment.

You may pick up your complimentary bumper sticker at his website.

by sricki 2008-07-19 02:25PM | 0 recs
Re: John McCain approves this comment.

Elections are about choices, what's the big deal?

by bsavage 2008-07-19 02:29PM | 0 recs
Re: John McCain approves this comment.

The big deal is you're making the wrong one.  But if you're willing to take a stand against women's rights, against a sensible foreign policy, and against the working class - and make no mistake, voting for John McCain is doing just that - then I suppose there's nothing we can do to stop you.

However, we can, and will, still ridicule you for taking such stands.

by mistersite 2008-07-19 02:37PM | 0 recs
How very true...

This election IS about choices, and we have some serious ones to make:

- Do we want a permanent occupation of Iraq?

- Do we want more war on the poor & the working class?

- Do we want the climate crisis to worsen?

- Do we want a worsening health care debacle?

- Do we want more of an erosion on our civil rights & our Constitutional rights?

If you answered "YES!" to any or all of these questions, then I guess John McBush is perfect for you. Enjoy your planet in peril!

by atdleft 2008-07-19 02:39PM | 0 recs
Re: To being a McTroll?

I don't see how someone who has lived in this Country for the past 8 years could possibly vote for a Republican (no matter who it is) and still call themselves a Democrat.

I think it just comes down to what you admitted upthread. Put quite simply....YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

Now that that has been agreed upon, I see no further need to waste time with you. I have much better things to do than attempting logical discourse with an idiot.

Not a McTroll...a McIdiot.

by Kysen 2008-07-19 02:50PM | 0 recs
Nah, he's a McMoran. n/t

by sricki 2008-07-19 02:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Nah, he's a McMoran. n/t
"You may have already won a license to be STOOPID!"
-Ed McMoran
by Kysen 2008-07-19 02:55PM | 0 recs
Re: R U 4 reel?

Please collect your McPoints at www.fuckPUMA.com.

by sricki 2008-07-19 02:20PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

For every Dem who is thinking of voting for McCain this fall there are five indies and Republicans who are genuinely on the fence.  The Dems should focus their efforts on where they'll do the most good.  Don't be upset about what the PUMA people do.  Ask yourself what you'll do.  Puma is a big psych out (eg. the % of Republicans who tell pollsters they'll vote for Obama right now is equal to the % of Dems who say they'll vote for McCain).  And if the Puma people vote Dem down ticket, better for us.

by IncognitoErgoSum 2008-07-19 02:44PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness
There will be no Republicans or independents vote for Obama. The Rs are just waiting quietly until the convention, and then there will be 24/7 play of Wright GD Amerikkka, Ayres flag stomping, Pfleger yelling, black liberation, and lots more things that are very truthful. And if that doesn't work, they will bring out Sinclair and God knows what - true or not. If Obama gets 45% he will be very lucky. Only the bots will be left. If you think the Rs are going to give up power to this inexperienced guy - you really are not in the reality world.
You did it. When you make a stupid mistake - the damage to the entire world is your responsibility.
by Marjoriest 2008-07-19 07:15PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

Ahhhh....Majorpest, living up to her name.

by Kysen 2008-07-19 08:02PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

Please, please, please!

Please have them bring out Sinclair.  

New motto:  Voters, we're not with him!

by January 20 2008-07-20 12:58AM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

" Only the bots will be left."

This made me laugh out loud.

Hiderated anyway though.

by Lance Bryce 2008-07-20 12:42PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

I wish I could add something useful & insightful.  

My feeling is that the 'pumas' are a small group that are piling any number of grievances into the Hillary pot.  We've seen clearly that it's not though some misguided appreciation of Hillary, they've dumped on her by ignoring her wishes, her policies, her party, and her ideals.  They have, within their own little realm, diminished Hillary by insisting that she's such a weak, and weak-willed figure that she has been broken by the "boys", the "party establishment", the "activist groups", the "money men", or my personal favorite, the "powers that be".  Whether you loved or loathed Hillary, no sane person person could think of her as weak and spineless, as some of the 'puma' posts project.

After the convention some of these people will seriously assess McCain & what he represents for the country.  That sober assessment - outside of the heat of battle (or super-extended phase of the battle,) will probably bring some of these folks back to the party; at least for downticket Dems. The rest either were never real Dems to begin with, or have painted themselves into a rhetorical corner from which they just can't escape.  (Corner reference - read into it what you will.)

In the meantime they seem eager to insinuate themselves into the storylines that should be devoted to Hillary and HER causes, HER policies, and HER party.  I'll get flamed for this line, but effectively, they've thrown Hillary under the bus.  All of this is candy to the media.  Fox & others get to sew dissent, while the rest of the press gets a colorful fringe storyline.

The heartening part of this squabble is that the 'pumas' don't really have a great public face to put forward.  Although they're probably not generally motivated by racism, they've done little to separate themselves from racist smears.  They have no major, high-profile Democrats publicly speaking for them, and they've still attaching themselves to the likes of Larry Sinclair.  None of this quashes the story altogether, but it says that any serious media examination will cast doubts on the groups' claims & credibility.

by January 20 2008-07-19 02:46PM | 0 recs
Good points...

And I guess what we should do next is pressure the media to stop giving these "PUMAs" credibility. When I flip on CNN to see the occasional pundit (especially the ones on Lou Dobbs' show!) treat "PUMA" like it's a legitimate Democratic group or the Faux News freaks fall all over each other to report "the Democratic chaos" while shouting out the "legitimacy" of "PUMA", I want to scream. We need to get out & prove the corporate media wrong. That's what I'm trying to do.

by atdleft 2008-07-19 02:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Good points...

Thanks.

Unfortunately I think that any such pressure - at least as direct pressure, will only fuel the story.  The only thing better than a griping 'puma' interview would be a 'puma'vs "X" debate.

Sorry about the "X", but I really don't know how to properly describe a rational Democrat that is not insulting in context - i.e. they'd be painted as one who didn't team with 'pumas'.

I think that the best way to deal with these people is though fact & silence.  I'd counsel not going on the offensive, but to be prepared to factually rebut their arguments as they pop up.  In other words, contrast the swelling number of true Hillary supporters who have already joined together in supporting our candidate, and even acknowledge that some Hillary supporters are still licking their wounds, but hurt or disappointed as they may have been by the outcome, they're still fully supporting their party.

I understand that you're in a particularly awful place at this point.  Having been a vocal, and effective supporter of Hillary, you're assumed by some people to share the feelings of the.... well, I can't type something that personally insulting to you & so many of the rest of the C40 team...  We understand that you're lightyears away from their mindset.  We see them trying to engulf you & all who had supported Hillary (even those who were effectively low-information voters, as many of the primary voters - on each side surely were.)

I think I'm typing off on a tangent here so I'll stop for a moment.  I think that what I was trying to get at at the end of this comment was that, to borrow a line from a GREAT democrat, we do feel your pain.

by January 20 2008-07-19 03:21PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

B-o-o-o-r-i-n-g-g-g.

by M1513 2008-07-19 03:05PM | 0 recs
As opposed to your comment,

which is ever so fascinating. Your wit holds us all in thralldom.

by sricki 2008-07-19 03:09PM | 0 recs
Re: As opposed to your comment,

almost as funny as your ratings abuse

by zerosumgame 2008-07-19 05:55PM | 0 recs
If you call people

McBloggers with no justification for your accusations, you will be downrated. That isn't ratings abuse.

by sricki 2008-07-19 06:01PM | 0 recs
Re: If you call people

zerocredibility got outed on another diary.

HILARIOUS stuff.

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/7/19/1 34451/737/63#63

I guess THAT won't be reported to the mods! LOL!

So fucking hysterical.

by spacemanspiff 2008-07-19 11:20PM | 0 recs
I absolutely love it

when their sockpuppets are discovered. This is new, though -- someone being so careless they forget to log out of their other account. Classic!

by sricki 2008-07-20 01:29AM | 0 recs
Re: I absolutely love it

srick is the worst ratings abuser here.

by rankles 2008-07-20 03:49AM | 0 recs
*kisses rankles*

Oh, the things I could do to you... I think I'm becoming a troll lover.

by sricki 2008-07-20 03:57AM | 0 recs
Look at that!

TR'd for my attempt to make a troll feel welcome! No good deed goes unpunished.

by sricki 2008-07-20 07:58AM | 0 recs
Re: Look at that!

I get t'rated for sneezing by the trolls around here.

Wear it as a badge of honor!

I'm still waiting to get t'rated by the "holding on sweetie".

The lovable one hasn't rated me yet.

Am I doing something wrong?

by spacemanspiff 2008-07-20 11:05AM | 0 recs
I don't think the holding on sweetie

can rate, or I would have been downrated 100 times. We could petition Jerome to restore our beloved's rating ability, I suppose.

by sricki 2008-07-20 11:28AM | 0 recs
OMG, engels is here!!!!

Are ya there, spaceman?? Engels wrote a diary!!

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/7/20/1742 8/7218#8

by sricki 2008-07-20 01:57PM | 0 recs
Re: I absolutely love it

actually it was my brother Jeff, and when I saw what happened I acknowledged it. Unlike bobzcat (bobcats sock-puppet) or Is this snark and all his little sock-puppets or spiff and all of his. So who is honest and who isn't? perhaps if you didn't act like one you would not be called a McBlogger (of course you have never protested any false accusations tossed at me or anyone else so it must be all about you)

by zerosumgame 2008-07-20 07:18AM | 0 recs
Re: I absolutely love it

Since you meantioned (and mangled) my name, I'll step in just to say that it's been amusing to watch you try to cover your tracks. I can almost see the flop-sweat pouring out of your armpits as you desperately try to accuse others of what you've been revealed to have done here.

Not that I care. Sockpuppets are the norm at this site, far as I can tell, at least among those trying to cause trouble here. As for myself, I have enough trouble finding time to read and post under one name, here and anywhere else.

Oh, and your abuse has been reported. The Justice League of America will be contacting you soon.

by BobzCat 2008-07-20 08:08AM | 0 recs
Re: I absolutely love it

spiff and all of his? Bwahahahaha!

Oooooh. I forgot you trolls think me and sricki are the same person. It's pretty obvious we are not.

1) She can actually write.
2) She has engels heart! (damn you sricki!)

Unlike you, I actually do something called "work" and when I'm not doing that I "study".  I also have something called a "life".

Speaking of life, I saved 2  last night.

What have you been up too lately ?

P.S. Scratch that last question, I just had a look at the hidden comments bin.

by spacemanspiff 2008-07-20 11:11AM | 0 recs
Either ignore them or listen to them, but

But just telling them, instructing them how to vote or why you are right and they are wrong, or demanding that they fall in line or telling them they have nowhere else to go or informing them they'll come around in time, will justly be met with laughter.

Seriously what are you guys worried about? McCain is not really running at this point. The only thing you need PUMAs for is money to pay for Obama's stadium or money to make up for those public finance dollars he opted out of receiving. It's just money at this point, and he has plenty.

by catfish2 2008-07-19 03:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Either ignore them or listen to them, but

On this historic occasion I'm going to agree with Catfish.  

The first graf is effectively my thought on this - in regards to the true die-hards.  I'll ignore the second graf so I can maintain my astonishing total agreement stance.  

It's kinda rainy here but I'm gonna go see if there's a blue moon in the sky tonight.

by January 20 2008-07-19 03:25PM | 0 recs
But that's just it...

I'm not telling the "PUMAs" what to do. I'm only saying that they're obviously NOT Democrats and they're no longer Hillary supporters (if they ever really were). If they intend to work AGAINST the Democratic Party, then they're not Democrats.

It's that simple.

by atdleft 2008-07-19 03:28PM | 0 recs
Re: But that's just it...

I think you meant to respond to catfish here.  I certainly got the content of this message from your diaries & earlier comments.  If I inadvertently hinted otherwise please accept my apology.

by January 20 2008-07-19 03:37PM | 0 recs
If you're a Democrat...

You'll support the Democratic nominee. Otherwise, you're NOT a Democrat.

I'm not telling you how to vote. I'm just saying that if you care about the issues that Hillary cares about, you'll support Barack. Otherwise, I guess you don't give a sh*t about the causes that Hillary's worked so hard for.

That's all.

by atdleft 2008-07-19 03:25PM | 0 recs
Your fanaticism is duly noted.

 and has come to the point of being amusing, frankly.

by missliberties 2008-07-19 07:25PM | 0 recs
PUMA take from former Hillary supporters

Dear Democratic Friends:

2008 is a Democratic year-at all levels in all the states. The opportunity is ours. We just have to seize it.

We experienced an exciting, intense, sometimes difficult, campaign to nominate our presidential candidate. Now it's over. Barack Obama won.

I supported Hillary Clinton and am proud and pleased that I did. But she lost. Barack Obama won. It's over.

It is time for all Democrats, supporters of Senator Clinton and all other contenders for the nomination, to stand with him to secure his election and the election of Democrats at all levels of competition.

I must confess a bit of fatigue and irritation with people who continue to carp, complain, and criticize the results of the primary and lay down conditions for their support. The Los Angeles Lakers didn't establish conditions to recognize the Boston Celtics as NBA Champions; Roger Federer did not demand concessions before recognizing that Rafael Nadal defeated him at Wimbledon.

It is time to act in a mature and resourceful fashion. It's time to put the primaries behind us. It's time to support Barack Obama without conditions or demands.

It's time to WIN for Barack Obama, the Democratic Party, America, and our future. We have an unparalleled opportunity. I hope we will all do everything we can to seize the moment.

See you at the Inauguration.

Sincerely,

Don Fowler
DNC Member At-Large, South Carolina
Former Chair of the Democratic National Committee

Alice Germond
Secretary, Democratic National Committee

by skohayes 2008-07-19 03:48PM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters

Well....this email will smooth everything over and everyone will fall in line.

Right?

by feelfree 2008-07-20 01:08AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters

If you take nothing else from this e-mail, take this, please:

It is time to act in a mature and resourceful fashion.

You can vote for the person who advances the Democratic agenda, or you can vote for the person who will continue the downward spiral we've experienced in the last 8 years.

Frankly, I don't care what you do.

by skohayes 2008-07-20 03:39AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters

Progressive first, democrat second.

Ill not vote for further eroding our civil liberties.

by rankles 2008-07-20 03:50AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters
LOL. You didn't care about civil liberties or being a progressive until just now, it seems.
The FISA bill has been in effect since 1978, and was updated in 2001. Where were you then, rankles?
by skohayes 2008-07-20 02:16PM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters

LOL I've been against it since I heard about it.

Where were you?

I contend that until you prove (to me) otherwise, you're a republican troll who gives not a shit about FISA.

by rankles 2008-07-21 03:28AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters
You don't have to be a Republican troll to not give a shit about FISA, rankles.
Our civil liberties were thrown into the garbage disposal about 7 years ago, in case you haven't noticed.
Funny that people are now just waking up to that fact.
by skohayes 2008-07-21 05:25AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters

Personally, I expected the democratic nominee to change course in this regard.

I guess that was simply wishful thinking.

So, can anyone tell me why exactly I should vote for Obama?

by William Cooper 2008-07-21 06:25AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters
Yes, actually it probably was wishful thinking. Obama is running for president, and that's what they do when they're trying to win votes.  Clinton did the exact same thing (and yes, I was disappointed, but I still voted for him).
And really, William, if you haven't figured out by now why you should vote for Obama, rather than giving the Republicans another four years to finish what Bush started, well, frankly, there's no point in even trying.
by skohayes 2008-07-21 04:28PM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters

You're right about one thing, there's not point in even trying.

Why should a person vote for a young, inexperienced George Bush over and older, experienced George Bush?

If the only difference between them is cultural, I'll take the old warmonger (even if he is white) over the  young warmonger (even if he is black) anyday.

Of course, I'm choosing neither.  

by William Cooper 2008-07-21 11:37PM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters
Well, of course you are- I would imagine any Republican would want four more years of an older, more experienced (but unfortunately, just as stupid) George Bush. He's done wonderful things for our country hasn't he? Trillions of dollars in debt to China (communists!), an occupation in a country that did nothing to us, while Osama Bin Laden waltzes around Pakistan, free as a bird!
Don't forget the billion dollar government welfare for Bear Stearns and Indy Mac, and the billions of dollars in profit for the oil companies while they get millions in tax breaks, poor things. We know they can't afford to pay taxes, they're too busy not drilling on the leases they own in the lower 48.
by skohayes 2008-07-22 03:20AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters

Ill repeat myself, since you don't seem to have read my post.  When given the choice of a young GW (obama) or an old GW (McCain) I would choose the older GW.

However, I don't want a GW at all, so I'm voting Nader.

by William Cooper 2008-07-23 12:23AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters
Good for you, William. A man who has no principles, and only runs for president to get in front of TV cameras.
Sounds like your kind of man.
by skohayes 2008-07-23 03:38AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters

Nader has more principles in the fingernail of his pinky that your empty suit Obama has in his whole body.

Obama is a disaster waiting to happen, an inexperienced immodest bullshitter.  He switches positions with the frequency of the clicks of the second hand on my watch.  He is an empty vessel, so please by all means fill him up with your hopes.

It's all he has to offer.  That, and parroting GW's policies.

by William Cooper 2008-07-23 05:33AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters
I was surprised to see McCain and Bush start following Obama's lead on Iraq and Afghanistan, but the flip flop shows how desperate the Republicans are getting. Not that it will do them any good.
Nader hasn't offered too many opinions on anything lately, what does he stand for this time around? His principles are about as flexible as his choice of party.
By the way, what party did Nader use this year to fund his run for president? The Greens threw him out and the Libertarians are running Bob Barr, so there's not much left for him.
No one takes him seriously anymore anyway. He's a perfect candidate for you, I can see that.
by skohayes 2008-07-24 09:11AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters

Nader has more principles in the fingernail of his pinky that your empty suit Obama has in his whole body.

Obama is a disaster waiting to happen, an inexperienced immodest bullshitter.  He switches positions with the frequency of the clicks of the second hand on my watch.  He is an empty vessel, so please by all means fill him up with your hopes.

It's all he has to offer.  That, and parroting GW's policies.

by William Cooper 2008-07-23 05:34AM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters

Fascist.

by William Cooper 2008-07-21 11:22PM | 0 recs
Re: PUMA take from former Hillary supporters

:)

by William Cooper 2008-07-21 11:38PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness
Thank you so much for talking about our site!
I've been meaning to email you in order to thank you but I can't find your info on "clintonistas for obama"
Anyhow, you're article is awesome. You're doing a great job- keep it up! Novemeber will be here before you know it!
by theantipuma 2008-07-19 04:03PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness
In regard to the diminishing Puny's who post here..
I turn to the words of the late great George Carlin
(and yes it is George)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_PkJ_4oE jc
by nogo postal 2008-07-19 05:19PM | 0 recs
Don't worry about PUMA's

They're just a figment of their own bitter imaginations -- all two dozen of them.

by Beren 2008-07-19 05:40PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

PUMA really means Putting Up McCain Agenda.  It is a fraudulent organization, and I'm saddened to think there are some Clinton Dems who have joined it.  PUMA is the Fox News of political clubs, too slanted to stand up for truth.

by Jacob Clark 2008-07-19 08:03PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

OMG another PUMA doesn't matter so lets spend all our time talking about them....

Just make Hillary the VP and admit that half the party want her and that respecting that half of the party is just good politics.

I would have backed Obama as VP if the shoe was on the other foot...

by dtaylor2 2008-07-19 09:40PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

dtaylor, always keeping it classy.

by alyssa chaos 2008-07-19 11:24PM | 0 recs
Totally agree with you.

My strategy has been to work on the voter registration drive, attend Democratic house parties and stay away from the blogs (for the most part).  I'm tired of reading the same old tired anti-Obama talking points that have been debunked time and again.

by GFORD 2008-07-19 10:49PM | 0 recs
Low info voters.

The (small, irrelevant) PUMA phenomenon came to pass mostly from naive or low information voters believing lies they read online about Obama.  The disinformation campaign didn't just happen on the right, it happened (or attempted to happen) on every progressive blog on the internet.  The McCain camp used trolls to spread lies about Obama to Hillary supporters.  A few of those voters believed what they were hearing (Larry Sinclair anyone?), and became ensnared in McCain's disinformation propaganda campaign.

From there, you have a former McCain donor create a website, (J.Say no deal), for the purpose of giving these lied to voters a home to stew in Obama hate, and slowly but surely bring them to the dark side.   If that doesn't work, they tell them to vote McCain to avenge Hillary, and give woman another chance in 2012 (despite losing the supreme court and every woman's issue that goes along with it).

by OVAH 2008-07-19 10:50PM | 0 recs
Yeah, those nasty PUMAs again.
I read your diary and my eyes actually were closed before I had finished. I'd much rather be annoyed by and armed with information about McCain and Republican tactics. It's not like that will start in a few weeks. It has been ongoing for the last 16 years.

The biggest danger is that any Democrat believes that a very tiny small group of demonstrably insipid, afeared people represent the huge majority of Democrats who support, and supported Hillary during the primaries. We Clinton supporters greet both people who somehow fit into the category of PUMA the same as we greet purported Obama supporters who claim we are holding back money or support for Obama because we're racists who want to see Obama fail - as tools of the Republican Party. Because despite any claims to being a non-conformist, unique, thinking adult who can manage politics in the most deft and progressive way - you are still being used as a tool of the Republican Party.

Read the responses at TPM or the NYTimes or CNN by alleged Obama supporters about PUMAs and you will see why this topic keeps popping up. Yes, there are some extremely wealthy, racist ideologues stoking the effort, but I still see expressed throughout the internet the reason why some Obama supporters are so freaked out by PUMAs. The racism is  specifically against African-Americans. They are pitting Latinos and Blacks against each other while pitting whites against both groups.

We're not supposed to acknowledge this because we don't want the forces of racism to be mobilized against Obama. Like racists or sexists or homophobes need our permission?  I've said the same thing to PUMAs in my world as I've said to Democrats who believe that Hillary or Bill Clinton are racists: Pedal that bullshit agenda somewhere else, out of earshot in a "spiderhole" preferably, so I can work with like minded people who realize that electing Obama and other Democrats now is the only way we will be able to even start a conversation about all the perceived sleights and actual grievances people have about sexism or racism or homophobia or classism or ageism or regionalism - after Democrats fix the economy of course.  Because that really is what most Americans really care about right now.

Other issues are all valid, I'm sure, but no poor or working class or middle class white, black, asian, latino man or woman of any race is going to be heard at all if McCain or Republicans have anything to say about it. They will all still be treated like objects that threaten the financial status of the country as opposed to the way to improve the economy.

Recognize the Clintons for who they are - great American leaders. Recognize how the media and people whose minds have been twisted by the media - a lot of people who otherwise consider themselves clever or smart or independent- have used "Clintons" as a vehicle, an excuse for hatred and stupidity and a mirror to vent their rage about whatever it is that serves as a good excuse why they aren't where they believe they should be. The only thing that compels support for Republicans and especially for McCain is their fear of change that they think will mean that they will lose their position in society - regardless of how they feel about the fairness of holding that position. White people are going to become powerless in this country. Right, exactly. (snark for those with limited snark detecting abilities or those who are hammered at the moment)

The Republicans have already tried the "electing Obama will give permission to packs of ill-mannered, violent black youths permission to defile your daughters while forcing them to adopt a Taliban like sect of islam upon us all in detriment to all the freedoms that even the poorest person in America would rather die for than succumb to - except of course when it comes to the near universal agreement that homosexuals should never be treated with equality." I've got the e-mails to document that effort. It didn't seem to go over well, but I still get them and I count on them using anti-Clinton sentiment as a vehicle for their more tried and true "take over of the United States by uppity negros with guns, crack pipes, and $600 sneakers stolen from some poor white guy on his way to his college Algebra class. I can point out many websites out that are all about this.

So Democrats either need to shut that up, or we lose. It won't be because of anything that either Clinton or either Obama says, it will be our fault for fighting about perfect racial, gender or regional representation and policy, whatever that is, while McCain and the Republicans gouge more and more people with their hateful, pointed sticks to worship in the Church of the Poisioned Mind. And let's stop pretending that Republicans or PUMAs and hopefully a group of less than 8 to 21 self-described Obama supporters are doing anything other than making the election of "fancy lad" about anything other than race and really, really old and dysfunctional economic and foreign policy. Hey, have a cool Bud on me and ask yourself why yet another American company is now owned by some people from Belgium. Voting McCain will put a stop to that! The owners of that corporation made lots of money. Is that not pro-American? (obligatory snark pop-up)

by Jeter 2008-07-19 11:17PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

yeah. well I think you'll find that most PUMAs are relying on emotion rather than rationality to base their decisions on. [im talking about a specific PUMA, aka Mama Chaos;] and most of them dont look like they are coming around soon. so the whole fact scenario kind of goes out the window when emotions are running the PUMA show; they dont want to listen to my pretty little facts.

madness in general, just doesn't abruptly end. it subsides and eventually fades. or it consumes. lets hope the PUMA madness does the former rather than the latter, yeah?

[always gotta be keeping it positive atdleft? you are too cool; great diary-]

by alyssa chaos 2008-07-19 11:22PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

Mama Chaos?

Have I told you recently how much I dig your style?

by spacemanspiff 2008-07-19 11:27PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness
oh thats not style, thats just really what I call her.


[my ego really appreciates the compliment- ]
by alyssa chaos 2008-07-19 11:40PM | 0 recs
PUMA lost their relevancy

a long ass time ago. It's hillarious how they run around and act like we have to beg them for their support. I just show them to door. The party is better off without them.

by USArmyParatrooper 2008-07-20 01:28AM | 0 recs
Realignment

I have to disagree with a few trains of thought.

For one, if PUMA people aren't "real" Democrats than Obamacans aren't "real" Republicans and, well, so be it.  Apparently PUMAs who are voting McCain see something in him they prefer to Obama and the converse is true for Obamacans. I don't have to agree with the rationale to respect a person's right to vote however they choose.  

Where it get's sticky is self-defining as a member of one party or the other while working against that party's nominee.  Again, I'm certainly not going to fault an Obamacan for attempting to reform their party by voting against it.  And if PUMA people think voting for McCain will send their party a message I can respect that.

However, my respect falls away when I consider what's at stake this election cycle -- nothing less than the future of the planet, our Constitutional rights, healthcare for millions and the American standard of living.  Wow.  And that's no overstatement.  

I can understand PUMA outrage and anger, what I can't understand is the single-minded self-destructive idiocy of their impotent "solution".  Toss the planet and the country to the wolves on principle when it could be far more effectively addressed in non-destructive ways.

It starts to sound and feel like all the working and middle class folks, their kids destined to be chewed up in Iraq while their job was being shipped overseas, who voted for Bush only because he was "pro-life".  

Somehow, electing a true obvious misogynist determined to strip women of their rights is somehow an appropriate way to address sexism.  

I have to stop now because my scalp is sore from scratching it on this one.

by grassrootsorganizer 2008-07-20 02:26AM | 0 recs
Re: Realignment

I know two Obamacans, and what they have to say shows the difference between them and the "Puma" members. In a nutshell, the Obamacans I've spoken to feel that John McCain is not a conservative and thus would change the party irreparably. They can't stand his position on global warming, campaign finance reform, illegal immigration, voting against Bush's tax cuts, etc. Their opposition is based on positions. Obama and Clinton disagreed on this and that, but overall they agreed on 95% of the issues. To go from Senator Clinton to McCain is simply irrational.

by GrahamCracker 2008-07-20 03:05AM | 0 recs
Stop writing diaries about them...

...and they will quickly be forgotten.  This group of people is already in the "dustbin of history".  

We are better off without these crazy people.  The best thing to do is to ignore their bullshit.  Once we stop paying attention to them they will lose their final audience.

by Blue Neponset 2008-07-20 04:23AM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

If you are sick of all the PUMA hubbub, why are you doing more than almost anybody on this site to make hubbub about PUMA?

by markjay 2008-07-20 01:26PM | 0 recs
Re: "PUMA" Madness

The Hillary supporters I know in real life are all voting for Obama.  They're even reading Obama's books to try to learn more about him.

As far as I'm concerned this PUMA crap only exists on the web and FOX spews.

by Renie 2008-07-21 02:38AM | 0 recs

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