Thank You Puerto Rico!

I love writing titles like this one.  Seems over the past few months I've been writing this more often than not regarding one fabulous win or another of Hillary's. And that's all thanks to our amazing candidate and her cracker-jack team of staff and volunteers who hit the ground hard in each state and don't let up until they've reached out to every last voter.

Now as you might have heard, Hillary's picked up another huge win and added to her lead in the popular vote thanks to the good people of Puerto Rico.  Despite the shouts and hollering that this thing is over - despite the huge efforts of people to push Hillary aside, the good people of Puerto Rico turned out today and said in no uncertain terms that they choose her as our next leader.

Nearly a 39% lead - that's nothing to sneeze at folks and it's right up there with her 40 point win in WV and her 35% (?) win in KY.

Those voters in Puerto Rico have now joined the 17 million American's who've turned out to support Hillary and her historic run for the White House.  That's a pretty awesome number you guys - 17 million people... that's more votes than any other candidate has gotten - ever

Her 17 million supporters are the focus of Hillary's latest campaign ad - check it out...

Hillary gave a kick-@ss speech in San Juan today once the polls had closed and it became clear she'd won.  In it, she thanked the people who turned out to support her, and she made her case to the undeclared super delegates out there.  Take a look...

Hillary's Remarks at the Victory Celebration in San Juan, Puerto Rico

Thank you so much. I have four words for you: Te quiero Puerto Rico!

Never before have these beautiful islands had such an important voice in a presidential election. And I have thoroughly enjoyed my time here. I cannot thank you all enough. Bill and Chelsea and I are so grateful to the bottom of our hearts for your generosity and your kindness, and I hope that we have helped to draw attention to the concerns of Puerto Rico and we have also helped to spotlight the beauty and the spirit of this wonderful place.

I am grateful for this show of overwhelming support. I came to Puerto Rico to listen to your voices because your voices deserve to be heard. And I hear you, and I see you, and I will always stand up for you.

I also want to recognize Senator Obama and his supporters. Our two campaigns have turned out record numbers of new voters, determined to chart a new course for America. Now, this primary election has been hard fought because there is so much at stake and we must elect a Democratic president.

I am I am overwhelmed by this vote today and I cannot complete this journey without your help. We have two contests left in South Dakota and Montana, and you can make the difference by visiting and helping us make sure we go strong. Every contribution will help us make our case to the voters who are going to be heading to the polls.

And I want you to know that this election is really about your future. You voted even though some tried to tell you that your votes wouldn't count. You voted for the person you believe will be the stronger nominee and the strongest president. And you are not alone. You are joining millions of people across the United States, more than 17.6 million, plus the votes that we've received today. People who don't always make the headlines; who don't always feel like your voices are being heard.

I think about these people all the time, because that's who I care most about. The nurse on her second shift who still can't pay her credit card bills; the worker who can't afford the gas on the way to work, the waitress on her feet without health care. The small business owners saddled with rising energy bills; the college student who can't afford to continue college; the farmer, the teacher, the trucker, the soldier, the veteran. The people yearning for a president who will rebuild the economy and a Commander-in-Chief who will restore our leadership and moral authority in the world.

I know that people face tough times. But what I've been impressed by is the resourcefulness and resilience that the people here and across the United States use to face whatever challenges they confront, because they believe they can keep working for a better tomorrow. The American Dream may bend under the weight of challenges we failed to meet and presidents who have failed to lead. It may bend, but it will never break, because that's what keeps so many of us going; the thought of a better life tomorrow and a better future for our children.

I believe that the people of the United States need a champion in the White House, someone who will be a president in their corner and on their side. I believe you are voting because you want a president who will stand up for universal health care. Who will stand up for action to address the housing crisis, who will stand up for better jobs to protect Social Security. You want to cut through the speeches and the sound-bites to real solutions.

And so today you've come out strong. You have defied the skeptics. More people across the country have voted for our campaign, more people have voted for us than for any candidate in the history of presidential primaries.

We are winning the popular vote. Now, there can be no doubt, the people have spoken and you have chosen your candidate. And it's important where we have won. We are winning these votes in swing states and among the very swing voters that Democrats must win to take back the White House and put this country back on the path to prosperity. Together, we've won the battleground states of Pennsylvania, Ohio, Arkansas, West Virginia, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, Nevada, and, yes, Michigan and Florida.

And I hope by my second term, regardless of what the people of Puerto Rico decide about the status option you prefer, you too will be able to vote for the next president of the United States.

So, when the voting concludes on Tuesday, neither Senator Obama nor I will have the number of delegates to be the nominee. I will lead the popular vote. He will maintain a slight lead in the delegate count. The decision will fall on the shoulders of those leaders in our party empowered by the rules to vote at the Democratic Convention.

I do not envy the decision you must make, but a decision has to be made, and in the final assessment, I ask you to consider these questions: Which candidate best represents the will of the people who voted in this historic primary? Which candidate is best able to lead to us victory in November? And which candidate is best able to lead our nation as our president in the face of unprecedented challenges at home and abroad?

I am in this race because I believe I am that candidate, and I will be that president. We are winning the popular vote because we have stood for the core principle of our party, a party that believes in universal health care - no one left out. A party that believes hard working, middle-class families deserve a fair shot at the American Dream, a party that believes we must bring our troops home from Iraq safely, responsibly, and honorably. A party that cherishes every child, values every family, and counts every single vote.

We are winning against John McCain and beating him in the key states. We have what it takes to get the 270 electoral votes necessary to win the White House. And the majority of voters know who is ready on Day One to serve as our president. A president who will bring strength, knowledge, and experience to the White House to solve our toughest problems. A president who knows firsthand the challenges of the job, as well as its power to make a positive difference in people's lives.

That's why I'm in this race. Ultimately it's not about Senator Obama or me. It's about you - your hopes, your interests, your futures. It's about the direction we choose as a nation. With two wars abroad and an economic crisis at home, we have to get this right. Our country cannot afford four more years of more of the same.

So, today Puerto Ricans across this beautiful place that I have come to enjoy so much made your voices heard and your votes counted, and for that, I want to thank my co-chairs, Senate President Kenneth McClintock and Puerto Rico Democratic Chair Roberto Prats, political directors Rafi Rodriguez Aguayo and Representative Jorge Colberg, Elections Representatives, Representative "Junior" Gonzalez and Rene Estades. Jose Hernandez Mayoral, Former Governor Carlos Romero, Miguel Lausell, Virgilio Ramos, and Luisette Cabanas. And special thank you to coordinator Ramon Luis Lugo, deputy coordinator Francisco Domenech, and advisor Jeffrey Farrow.

And I want to thank all of my volunteers, my staff, my supporters; everyone who waved at us as we caravanned all day yesterday. And I want to reiterate what I have said across Puerto Rico, together, in my first term, we will finally enable the status question to be resolved, based on the principles that government should be representative at all levels, and the people of Puerto Rico deserve the opportunity to choose from among all of the options.

Together we will work to ensure that Puerto Rico is treated equally when it comes to Medicare and Medicaid and the Children's Health Insurance Program, tax breaks for creating jobs, and more. I will be your champion. And I want to thank all of my friends in our labor unions, all of them who have done so much for us. It has been a joy to work with every single union that has been here supporting me. We would not be here without you tonight. And I want to say a special word of thanks to the Hispanic community, not just in Puerto Rico, but across the United States. I am so honored you have stood by me throughout this campaign. I am grateful for your love, your friendship, and your support.

What we have seen in this campaign and what we have always known is that Hispanic Americans, Latinos from every part of Latin America, care deeply about the future of the United States. You contribute so much to the greatness of this country, to business and academia, to labor, to the professions, to entertainment, to sports, to every part of society. And you have also contributed greatly to expanding the horizons and the diversity of our country. I am so grateful to you, and I am so proud of the support you have given me.

I also wish to thank my family for their incredible love and support, Bill and Chelsea, my mother, my brothers, Hugh and Tony, my sister-in-laws, Maria and Megan, and all who are helping here in Puerto Rico and South Dakota and Montana. Because we are in this to choose a candidate who we know will not only stand up for us but unite us. We will be strengthened by the enthusiasm of the millions of people who have voted and volunteered in all of these contests. We are propelled by this unique moment in history.

The campaign has been an extraordinary journey, and I am grateful for every day of it; every single day something happens which reinforces my commitment and lifts my spirits. It might be a young child who is introduced and says, "I want to grow up to be president." It might be a young mother who says, "I have no health insurance. I hope you will help me." It might be an older man, who says, "I am a veteran, but I cannot get the help I deserve."

Every story like that reinforces my commitment to what we are doing together. People deserve better from their government. The people of Puerto Rico deserve better from the federal government. So, I call on you to travel this final stretch with me, to join me as we take America back and lead our country with confidence and optimism into this new century.

Let's keep fighting for our dream. Let's keep fighting for what we believe. Let's keep fighting for one another. Let's keep fighting for America. America is worth fighting for. Thank you, and God bless you and God bless America.

I don't know about you but that last bit really does reinforce something I've heard Bill Clinton say about his amazing wife - "there's no quit in that girl."

It doesn't sound like she's even close to giving up this fight any time soon and I'll be with her every step of the way.

And I won't be alone in that journey.

One more thing folks - Hillary's just shown that she's still got a massive amount of support out there.  Help her keep fighting. Help her get that ad I posted above up on the air in MT & SD.  Let her know you've still got her back.

She can't do this alone - and she won't have to with us standing beside her.  You know what to do...


Tags: 2008 elections, Hillary Clinton, president, puerto rico (all tags)



Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

She's still going strong guys!

by alegre 2008-06-01 07:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

... and I'm with her through to Denver.

by alegre 2008-06-01 07:49PM | 0 recs
And if she isn't through to Denver...

...will you join her in supporting the Democratic nominee?

by mistersite 2008-06-01 07:54PM | 0 recs
An excellent question!

Will the diarist support the actual nominee, even if on the off chance that nominee is Obama?  

by kellogg 2008-06-01 08:18PM | 0 recs

How about answering if you will support Obama if he wins?

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 08:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Alegre?

Please answer.  We really would love to know.

by oliver cromwell 2008-06-02 08:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Alegre?

I look foward to this questions future framing:

"Alegre, NOW that Obama is the nominee will you support him?"

Alegre if you are reading this, understand that you will be asked this in every thread, and it is now legendary your absoulute stonewalling you have pulled off for months now.

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-06-02 11:14AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico

Te quiero Puerto Rico!

by Caldonia 2008-06-01 07:54PM | 0 recs

It made me chuckle the first time, but now it's gotten stale, annoying, and disruptive.

Please stop.

by mistersite 2008-06-01 08:30PM | 0 recs
It's not a person, it's a script.

It's got to be. Exact same comment appended to every comment in a diary.

by catfish2 2008-06-01 08:50PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not a person, it's a script.

It doesn't append to every comment, though... only some people's comments.

No, I think it's a person with some serious copy/paste issues.

by mistersite 2008-06-01 08:57PM | 0 recs
Re: It's not a person, it's a script.
I guess this is the only case I know where the term
'Obamabot' properly applies. ;)
by french imp 2008-06-02 12:20AM | 0 recs
This is WAY Tired and Disruptive!

I don't care who you support in the primary, I'm hiding this comment all 50 times you've put it up. We gotta nip this or none of us will be able to discuss ANYTHING around here...

by RNinNC 2008-06-02 12:23AM | 0 recs

I guess my wishes have been awkwardly granted - I emailed a moderator to complain about the IsThisSnark troll AND wrote the above reply to 'it'. Now that the troll is gone, it looks like I was addressing Caledonia. NOT SO!

To repeat - I did NOT mean to address you with the comment above, and I did NOT HR you at all. Kinda wish my comment had disappeared with the troll's, but whatcha gonna do???

by RNinNC 2008-06-02 11:14AM | 0 recs

lol  Don't worry.  And thanks for cleaning up the joint. ;)

by Caldonia 2008-06-02 05:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Is this snark?

Isn't this boojum?

by french imp 2008-06-02 12:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Congratulations to Hillary and her supporters on her win in PR from an Obama supporter.

by fugazi 2008-06-01 07:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

The Washington Post did an interview with her -- it will be in tomorrow Post.

In a telephone interview with The Washington Post after her victory by a 2 to 1 ratio over Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.), Clinton stressed that she will press forward through the final contests of the primary season on Tuesday, brushed aside the idea that she was searching for an exit strategy, and said she will continue to weigh both her immediate- and longer-term options in the race.

By the way.  Compare pictures of Clinton with Obama at this stage.  She appears to be in better shape physically. tent/photo/2008/06/01/ ml

by katmandu1 2008-06-01 08:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Congrats on the win. You may want to correct your stats, though. You say 39 percent, but the link you send us to shows 68.4 to 31.6, or a little under 37 percent. Not a substantial change, but people may reference this diary later and accuracy's always important.

Also, you can remove the question mark; Kentucky was 65-30 for a 35 point margin.

by TCQuad 2008-06-01 08:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Terrific diary again.

Glad to give you mojo.

by HillsMyGirl 2008-06-01 08:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

What a great night!

If this race is over, why does she keep winning?

by psychodrew 2008-06-01 09:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

If this race isn't over, why is it impossible for her to win the nomination?

She can't win in pledged delegates, and supers have consistantly been going to Obama, despite Clinton's claiming to have won the popular vote. A journalist who's talked to many of the remaining supers says they're not even listening to Clinton anymore.

How can you still say it's not over? If you wanna hold your breathe until the convention, go ahead. By that time everyone else will have realized McBush is the real threat and that Obama is better than the worst president in the history of America.

by Okamifujutsu 2008-06-01 11:16PM | 0 recs
You need to chill out.

You're reading way too much into my comment.

I've already said that I will support whomever the SD's endorse on Wednesday.  I expect that to be Obama and he will get my vote.  I've also said that if Obama reaches the magic number on Wednesday, that I don't expect Hillary to take it to the convention, and I would not support such a move.

But it's strange that she is still winning, isn't it?  The pundits have declared her dead.  She is being ignored by the media.  And yet, she's still winning primaries.

by psychodrew 2008-06-02 12:17AM | 0 recs

Not just winning but, aside from D.C., she has racked up the three largest margins of victories in the primaries in each consecutive election night.  WV-41, KY-35, PR-38.  These margins are surreal.  

by BPK80 2008-06-02 03:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Landslides

Aside from DC.  Now THAT was a landslide.

by Jess81 2008-06-02 08:44AM | 0 recs
Re: Landslides

Yeah, who would have thought a 100% urban district would have voted for Obama by such precipitous margins?  Shocker.  

Except that Obama regrettably underperformed John Kerry's successes in D.C. from 2004.  And underperformed Kerry in Philadelphia.  Weird.

by BPK80 2008-06-02 04:26PM | 0 recs
Re: You need to chill out.

No doubt sh'es a formidable candidate.  But it is over.  Russert suggested this morning that a sufficient number of supers will declare for Obama when the polls close tomorrow.

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-06-02 03:42AM | 0 recs
Re: You need to chill out.

If you're asking this as a serious question, the serious answer is demographics.  Momentum hasn't meant much of anything in the 2008 primaries.  These big wins by Hillary are with in the margin of error of polls taken months ago.  Basically, people made their minds up about these candidates a long time ago, and on election day they're voting their preferences.

The margins are especially high now because Obama is no longer fielding his ground game.  It's an awful lot like a basketball game where one team is ahead by 20+ points with only a couple minutes left.  At that point, they put their subs in.  The losing squad might go on a run then, close the margin to within 10, but the announcers (media pundits) are already analyzing the win/loss and the audience (voter turnout) is already heading for the exits.

Combine demographics that led to a hefty lead in the polls at the outset with unmotivated Obama voters and little-to-no field operation from Obama's campaign and two things start seeming downright reasonable.  1. Hillary's huge win margins. 2. The public perception that those win margins don't amount to much.

by sierradave 2008-06-02 08:15AM | 0 recs

The largest vote getter in democratic history! No matter what the SD's decide, this is truly historic.  Congratulations, Senator Clinton, and thank you, Puerto Rico!  viva Hillary!

by 4justice 2008-06-01 09:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Historic!

You mean Congratulations, Obama!  Caucus votes count too... count every vote, right?

by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-02 07:52AM | 0 recs
by shirley temple 2008-06-01 09:59PM | 0 recs
I give this 10 minutes..

before it's on the rec list.

by Massadonious 2008-06-01 07:50PM | 0 recs
Re: I give this 10 minutes..

And you have a problem with that because........?

by Tolstoy 2008-06-01 07:55PM | 0 recs
Re: I give this 10 minutes..

Where did I say I have a problem with it?

This could be a positive comment, for all you know.

by Massadonious 2008-06-01 07:57PM | 0 recs
Re: I give this 10 minutes..

It's a positive comment, as far as I know.

by fogiv 2008-06-01 09:57PM | 0 recs
Where does the diarist announce these?

She's got a group of regular recommenders.   Doe she promote these diaries elsewhere (like Hillaryis44 or noquarter, both of which I view as sites full of hate)?    

by kellogg 2008-06-01 08:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Where does the diarist

What?  Are you suggesting that she is part of a yahoo group where a bunch of people are notified that a diary just went up and they all run here to recommend it?

Those are unproven allegations.

Her diaries make the rec list because they deserve to.

And now you want to take away a spot on the rec list and have what she earned replaced by an inadequate, male diarist.

You are misogynistic and sexist for making those remarks.

by HillsMyGirl 2008-06-01 08:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Where does the diarist

Wow.  I can't begin to convey my admiration for your voice.  It's like the comment equivalent of method acting.  It must be exhausting.  

by kellogg 2008-06-01 08:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Where does the diarist

kellogg, that poster is a troll.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 09:34PM | 0 recs
I know. Seems to be posing

as a particularly naive and deluded pro-Hillary commenter.  But the snark is beautifully done.  

by kellogg 2008-06-01 09:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Where does the diarist
I agree. A subtle troll. If such a thing exists.
Not to be fed in any case.
by french imp 2008-06-02 12:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Where does the diarist

And they won't be proven, because the Yahoo group is memebers only, which apparently only accepts new members by referrral.  I know this because I've tried.

by redwoodsummer 2008-06-01 09:07PM | 0 recs
Re: I give this 10 minutes..

Stop that.

Now before I tip the diarist I want to say that I think this should be on the rec list within 5 minutes.

Puerto Rico is an important state and it's a big state with more people in it that South Dakota or Montana.  Do you really think this election is going to be decided by those African Americans in South Dakota?  NO.  Thank you Puerto Rico.

I judge by two halves and the second half began in March and this is now 9 for HIllary and 7 for Obama.  Hillary wins the second half.  (Note the first half ended February 5th.  all that stuff in February after Super Tuesday was the INTERMISSION or HALFTIME so I do not count those beauty contests.)

by HillsMyGirl 2008-06-01 08:22PM | 0 recs
Re: I give this 10 minutes..

It's such an important state that it's not a state.    Don't get me wrong--it's a REALLY important state. And a big state. Except for, you know, not being a state.  

by sharks201 2008-06-01 08:30PM | 0 recs
and they have no vote in the General Election

Except for that, exactly like a state.  With the same GE impact as Upper Volta

by xenontab 2008-06-01 09:02PM | 0 recs
Re: and they have no vote in the General Election

In the interest of accuracy, that last line should be "With the same GE impact as Burkina Faso."

Just doing my part...gotta stay as factual and up-to-date as possible here, gang.

by ipsos 2008-06-01 09:09PM | 0 recs
Puerto Ricans die fighting our wars!

State or not. (It's nickname to some IS "the 51st state," by the way.)

There are more Puerto Ricans in the U.S. than in Puerto Rico. The vote there just further underscores Clinton's strength in the Latino community; and it does impact Latino perception of the Clinton candidacy in the 50 states, too.

More importantly, they send something in the neighborhood of 55 delegates to the Dem Convention. In a Primary, I'd say that pretty much trumps the state argument; but not quite as well as the fact that their sons and daughters die fighting our wars!

by bobswern 2008-06-01 10:36PM | 0 recs
The thrust of the arguement... not against Puerto Rico, but against the popular vote metric which includes votes that will not count in the GE.

by xenontab 2008-06-02 05:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Puerto Ricans die fighting our wars!

Do nicknames count for the electoral college?

Did you check out the turnout figures?  Interesting that Lanny Davis didn't have his finger quite on the pulse that he thought he did...

Interesting that a "state' that isn't a state has more delegates than 27 other real states and they can't be bothered to show up to a tune of any more than 16% of the electorate.

nevertheless, Clinton won that margin fair and square.  For what it's worth...

by oliver cromwell 2008-06-02 08:19AM | 0 recs
Re: and they have no vote in the General Election

And a little less GE impact than Canada. (Remember the NAFTA fun the Cons up in Canada had with us?)

by MarvinMouse 2008-06-02 08:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

She was great.

The victory speech was really something else

by lori 2008-06-01 07:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Please, please, please ... stop with the "she's winning the popular vote" nonsense or explain how you arrive at this conclusion while still "counting every vote".

by jdusek 2008-06-01 07:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

you can do the research yourself

by lori 2008-06-01 07:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

From as of tonight:

If all the primary results including Florida and Michigan are counted, but not the caucus votes, Clinton leads in the popular vote 17,461,845 to Obama's 17,244,762, according to CNN estimates.


In a second scenario, which adds in CNN's estimate of the caucus-goers, Obama leads Clinton 17,928,000 to 17,843,000.

Alegre has been making the case that every vote should count, so I don't understand how Clinton can be leading in the popular vote without excluding the caucus votes.

by jdusek 2008-06-01 08:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Because caucuses are unfair since Barack Obama's name is actually on the ballot.

by CrazyDrumGuy 2008-06-02 08:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Well, sure, but given that the popular vote is the one metric the Clinton campaign is trying to claim, it behooves Clinton supporters to defend it.  Except that it's indefensible: count all the votes! (but not the ones that don't help Clinton).

Some things to defend:
-- FL's delegates have been given half a vote each; are you counting the actual votes at full value?

-- MI's actual vote was discarded by the MI delegation as far too flawed to use.  Are you using that actual vote?

-- How do you reconcile the "equity" of the popular vote with the fact that, since states weren't told the national popular vote would matter, they chose among open and closed primaries and caucuses?  If I'm a state party chair and want to maximize our state's power in selecting the nominee via the popular vote, I'm definitely going to hold an open primary.  But many, many states did not.  Is it truly Clinton's intention to diminish the relative power of stalwart Democratic states like MN, WA, and IA, which all held caucuses?

-- Since March, many of Clinton's "big" wins have come courtesy of crossover Republican voters in states like TX and IN.  In states like OH and PA, her margins grew thanks to Republican voters, many of whom said they wouldn't vote for her in the general election.  Are you counting Republican votes in the overall popular vote?  

by deminva 2008-06-02 05:49AM | 0 recs
30,000 write-in votes thrown out in MI...

but, hey, that was a "legitmate" election and we should do everything we can to make sure that all of Hillary's votes are counted.

by jaywillie 2008-06-01 10:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

17 million people... that's more votes than any other candidate has gotten - ever

Bush - 62,040,606
Kerry - 59,028,109

You might want to qualify that statement.

by mistersite 2008-06-01 07:53PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

clinton is clearly not running in a general election.

stop being a wise ass.

by lori 2008-06-01 07:55PM | 0 recs

Not in 2008 anyway.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 07:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Indeed

ROFL!  Comment of the day!

by chinapaulo 2008-06-01 08:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Indeed

Cute.  You just can't help yourself, can you?

by Denny Crane 2008-06-02 07:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

It's simply not true as written.

Many, many people running for President have gotten more votes than Hillary Clinton.  Perhaps she's got a record number of primary votes - and that's only if you include the unfair, invalid election in Michigan, because otherwise Obama holds that record - but she doesn't have "more votes than any other candidate has gotten - ever".  That's simply false.

Again, this can be fixed pretty easily by adding a single-word qualifier in there.

by mistersite 2008-06-01 07:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Well you know, we rely on the intelligence of the people who post here to be able to use their common sense.  Most of them, anyway.

by Scotch 2008-06-01 08:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Not only is it calling out an untrue statement, but it's also a way to enter into a larger discussion about the relevance of popular votes, particularly given that who is allowed to vote, how they vote, etc. varies wildly from state to state.

Hillary Clinton has gotten more primary votes than any other candidate, ever, except for Barack Obama if a different metric - in my opinion, a more fair metric - is used.

by mistersite 2008-06-01 08:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Why don't you just state directly what is on your mind instead of being coy about it then.  Frankly, it just looks like an attempt to spam the diary with comments that put it off track.

by Scotch 2008-06-01 08:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

It's a bit Socratic, really.  Trying to draw people into a conversation rather than just arguing talking points.

by mistersite 2008-06-01 08:23PM | 0 recs
Is this snark?


by libertyleft 2008-06-01 07:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Is this snark?

You don't need to do this. If you hadn't noticed, the "is this snark" comment has been thoroughly covered.

by Okamifujutsu 2008-06-01 11:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

For what it's worth, I enjoyed this positive diary far more than yesterday's diary.  Congratulations to Clinton on the win.

by rfahey22 2008-06-01 07:55PM | 0 recs

Hillary is just an inadequate white female, I am not impressed by her victory.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 07:55PM | 0 recs

Do not hide rate my comment, I have been assured by an administrator of this site that the phrase "Inadequate race gender" is far from over the line on this site, and in fact only the thin skinned and over sensitive would be offended.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 08:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

you stated it was a "snark" in the open comments thread - you should really either

a) put the snark tag in
b) don't bitch when people HR/TR you on it

because you are just trying to start a flame war here.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 08:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

I am seeking to make a message clear to the administrators that the above quote is indeed over the line and violates the social mores of this community and should not be allowed.  Other than provoking hide ratings, there is no clear way to make that case.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 08:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

no, what you are "seeking" is a flame war.  There was no reason for you to post that comment without the snark if that is what you meant it to be.

so, the conclusion is that you are looking for a fight.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 08:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

I am looking for racist material to be removed from this site, that has been promoted by prominent diarists on this site and approved by the administrators.  If it means I have to fight, I'm fine with that.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 08:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

This diary doesn't have any racist material in it.

go complain over at the appropriate diaries.  That way I don't have to read your comments, as I don't go to those diaries.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 08:09PM | 0 recs
The author of this diary

Is responsible for pushing the racist video in another diary, this is an appropriate place to make a complaint.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 08:10PM | 0 recs
Re: The author of this diary

so you attack Hillary?

Did the Hillary campaign put out that video?  I don't think so.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 08:12PM | 0 recs
A fair point

I will adjust my technique in the future.  I used Hillary's name because I knew it would provoke a visceral reaction from those who might not have seen it as so bad when it was directed at Obama, a very large group. (TexasDarlin's diary in which she promoted the video was top on the rec list earlier today.)

Sometimes you need to be hit before you realize something hurts, but you are right, I should not have involved Hillary.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 08:20PM | 0 recs

TexasDarlin's diary is STILL on the rec list. 1/3510

It would be nice if instead of complaining about my satirical posting of the offensive statement more folks would go complain about it being posted seriously. :)

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 08:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Update

well I and many others who are Hillary Supporters (without the quotes - props to Angry Mouse) did not rec'd that diary.

I can't help you there.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 09:35PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

cole, I respect your opinions on this site, however, many people were very offended by the video that alegre posted last night.  It was never taken down -- that video was designed to inflame and had no snark involved -- it was intentional.  I believe that issues are being dealt with here in an uneven manner.  I am not saying people don't have the right to rec or TR, but, I do believe that until the venom is dealt with, this type of posting and the parody trolls will continue.

by gchaucer2 2008-06-01 08:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

okay, I see.  I didn't see that diary, as I try to state out of anti-Obama diaries (this diary is a pro-Hillary one)

But the poster in question is attacking Hillary, instead of the diarist for those comments.

That video was not put out by the Hillary campaign, correct?

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 08:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

but did the Hillary campaign renounce and reject it?  Did they renounce and reject her for posting it? They need to be held accountable for what one of her supporters did!

by IowaMike 2008-06-01 08:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori


by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 08:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

Your "the Hillary campaign didn't put out the video" defense. Clinton demands Obama to "renounce and reject" support she deems unfit or unethical (you seriously don't remember the flap about Farhakan?). I'm just doing the same.

by IowaMike 2008-06-01 08:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

sigh.  get over it.  Move on.  Nothing to see here.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 09:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

Absolutely not -- I do not attribute the vileness to Sen. Clinton at all.  I think the problem many people had last night was that this video of this deranged woman talking about an incompetant black man and then promoting McCain was way over the top.  It was posted as an update.  

Alegre has been put in a different category here -- touting her status as someone who sits in on campaign phone calls.  I think she is doing a disservice to Sen. Clinton.  What you are seeing is frustration.  I don't have the nerve to post something like that, but I will support any effort that will finally bring this site back to the balanced discussions I remember when I started.

It is people like you and most others here who give me hope.  I find the same vitriol at DKos and am determined to stamp it out there as well.

by gchaucer2 2008-06-01 08:18PM | 0 recs
point of order

Alegre is indeed a campaign surrogate.

She bundles money and receives perks and invitations to private events as 'payment' for her efforts.

The campaign should certainly be held accountable.

by Is This Snark 2008-06-01 08:31PM | 0 recs
When I was lurking over at Dkos

I remember she said she was on the transition team in 1992/1993.  It was on February 25.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 08:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

HA!  You are going to stamp out vitriol at DKos.  I can't stop laughing.  That'll be the day.........Where's Caldonia?  We need some Buddy Holly here.

by Tolstoy 2008-06-01 08:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

Get lost.

by Scotch 2008-06-01 08:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

Please address the same comment to Alegre and TexasDarlin, who have promoted in their diaries a video in which that comment is directed at Obama.

Address it also to the site administrators who have told me, quote:

We simply disagree on what constitutes crossing the line. Sorry, this video doesn't come close, and I have deleted racist shit from this site. Many times.

Once that opinion is changed I will be happy to stop posting references to Hillary in that manner.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 08:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

Very passive agressive immature way of handling it, but go ahead and open yourself up to whatever comes your way.  

by Scotch 2008-06-01 08:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

A rational complaint was posted in the original diary and e-mailed to administration here, there isn't much else I can do.  This certainly isn't how I expect to combat racist content here, it shouldn't take anything more than pointing it out.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 08:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

Please post a diary as a call to arms to the sane members from both sides.

Your current tactic will not generate anything other than getting yourself banned.

by CAchemist 2008-06-01 08:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

That comment wasn't directed at Obama.  It was directed at a reporter looking to find someone angry enough to lose their composure.  I do not know that woman but I suspect she has been a Democrat for a very long time and sees Obama as an inexperienced newcomer who should have served in the Senate a couple of terms and acquired some accomplishments on the national stage before running for the top job.  And the RBC giving him "uncommitted" votes just pushed her over the line.  She's obviously furious with the DNC, the RBC and the treatment Hillary has recieved.

I seriously doubt if she is a long time Democrat that she's a racist.

by Tolstoy 2008-06-01 08:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

Racist or not, she most certainly described Barack Obama as an "inadequate black male" which is every bit as offensive as dismissing Hillary Clinton as an "inadequate white female."

by davisb 2008-06-01 08:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

I would be thrilled if "inadequate white female" was the worst thing Senator Clinton has been called during this campaign.  She's been called every filthy name in the book and some new ones have been created just for her.

by Tolstoy 2008-06-01 09:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

Like what?

by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-02 08:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

I wish I could answer for you, but I'm just an inadequate jew girl.

by Jess81 2008-06-02 08:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

As an inadequate white male I'm offended by your use of the word girl

by ihaveseenenough 2008-06-02 09:10AM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

Is she a racist woman?  Who knows, everyone says crazy shit now and again.

Was that a racist statement?  No doubt, it was, and it has no place being promoted in widely read diaries on this site.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 09:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

Who and where did an administrator say that "inadequate black male" was perfectly okay?

I'm assuming that's the reference.

by Jess81 2008-06-01 08:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

In a personal e-mail to me when I tried to settle this matter privatly:

We simply disagree on what constitutes crossing the line. Sorry, this video doesn't come close, and I have deleted racist shit from this site. Many times.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 08:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

Which administrator told you it was an appropriate statement , I would like to know.

I have almost never had to use the hide option , but that comment really made me livid.

That is a totally inappropriate statement and I am surprised you would think it is above board .

If you can name who told you it was appropriate I would uprate your comment , I don't believe any administrator would tell you that .

Infact thats a statement that would likely result in your banning .  

by lori 2008-06-01 08:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

I don't want to publish the name in public, to protect him really from owning up to such a stupid statement.  E-mail me at and I will let you know the name, as long as you promise not to publish it here.

by libertyleft 2008-06-01 08:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

I am going to uprate your comment , I would see where Todd and the gang stand on this .

If anyone of them told you it was an appropriate word to use and it was officially sanctioned , I am not going to want to continue being part of this community.

by lori 2008-06-01 08:14PM | 0 recs
The video of that crazy lady was covered

by 1.  All major news outlets  2. The Huffington Post 3. Was the lead story at drudge report.

Nobody can show it here because it might be considered offensive????   It exists, whether or not mydd shows the video or not.  Its evidently newsworthy and topical,  because ALL major newsoutlets and BLOGS seem to be covering it.  

TO say that "the moderaters approve of such language" by allowing someone to show the video of that diary is ridiculous.

by Sandy1938 2008-06-02 05:50AM | 0 recs
Re: The video of that crazy lady was covered

The Vanity Fair article is published at Huffpo and the "affair" parts are all over the internet -- so it seems you are completely fine with it being added to diaries here.  Ok, then, thanks for clearing things up.

If alegre wants to put up a racist in one video and a liar in another video to demonstrate what kind of supporter she is for Sen. Clinton, I guess we should stop complaining.

by gchaucer2 2008-06-02 07:15AM | 0 recs
Re: Lori

If you are really looking for change, then it is appropriate to point out that administrator X has greenlit the racist video.  We could then as a community take it to the other admins.  

I imagine you could get a lot of support from both sides for any mass action to get this kind of thing to go away.  

I don't agree with your current technique until less inflammatory options are exhausted.

by CAchemist 2008-06-01 08:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Is it necessary to characterize the people of Puerto Rico as 'good' twice?  Generally, I would question whether this characterization was simply based in the fact that they voted for the diarist's candidate of preference.  But I actually think that if Clinton had not won PR, there would be at least a question about the 'goodness' of the people of PR in terms of political soundness.  Clinton represents NY in the US Senate.  As PR has no senators and the largest PR community outside the island is in fact in NY, she is the closest thing they have to senatorial representation.  Clearly, Hillary has done her job in NY with regard to responsiveness to the Nuyoricans (NY Puerto Ricans), many of whom were my neighbors when I lived in Losaida (the Lower East Side).  Had she not been a responsive advocate for that important constituency, we would have heard of that by now.  So, although I support Obama in this contest, I salute the good people of Puerto Rico for doing the right thing in terms of standing by the candidate who has represented them faithfully, and I salute HRC for successfully doing so.

by Strummerson 2008-06-01 07:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Let's work to get PR as our 51st state!!  I think it was great that they were able to vote in a primary where the candidates came down and campaigned.

I am sure they were very excited about this.  I know that this primary has been long, but one of the good things about it is that states and territories that were ignored in previous years were all on the list this year!

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 08:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Isn't slightly more than half the island against statehood?

by rfahey22 2008-06-01 08:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Polls tend to bounce around, but this month one poll found a big spike in those supporting statehood, up to 57%. 05/status_grafica.pdf

I know promoting statehood was part of the Clinton pitch in PR, so not sure if that played a role in the spike (I'd actually guess not, but who knows).

by davisb 2008-06-01 08:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

ah, split down the middle.  But I am sure that can be worked on if they want it to be.  Having PR would be a great thing for democrats, as it is heavily democratic.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 08:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Well, if we made them a state, we'd be spending more on 'em in federal dollars than they'd generate. I think I read something once that indicated it'd be at a West Virginia-esque level. I mean, hell, I'm not against it by any means, but that's probably a big reason why it hasn't come to pass.

by ragekage 2008-06-01 08:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

actually, it has a complicated history.  There are three factions in PR--those that support statehood (about 48%), those who don't (48%), and those who want independence (4%).  Those who don't want statehood don't want it because they get all the benefits of statehood now without having to pay federal taxes.  Those who want it fear that, given PR costs the fed. gov. so much money, we might drop them in the future (but we couldn't obviously, if they were a state).  Overall, I don't think it's clear that it would cost us anything to have PR as a state--that is likely a repub. talking point--repubs have a vested interest in preventing statehood because it would tip the balance toward democrats.

by slynch 2008-06-01 10:02PM | 0 recs
We Can Just

ask the RBC to decide!  ;)

by RNinNC 2008-06-02 12:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Or if Puerto Rico because an independent country, maybe Hillary could be their first president!

by PhilFR 2008-06-01 08:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

PR has Americans in it.  Their president is our president.

uncalled for remark.  really

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 08:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

What was uncalled for? Noting that there's a pro-independence movement in PR? There's also one in Hawaii, btw.

by PhilFR 2008-06-01 08:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

It is like stating GWB should be the president of Iraq (as he seems to like pouring money and resources into that country over ours)

It was a hit against Hillary.  You know it, I know it.

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 08:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Oh please. That's a hit? It was nothing more than a tongue in cheek comment, riffing on the fact that HRC is evidently more popular in Puerto Rico than in the states.


by PhilFR 2008-06-01 08:21PM | 0 recs

Yeah, she's more popular in PR than Obama is.  And strangely enough, she's at least as popular in the 50 states as Obama is.  Does that mean he's not very popular?

Incidentally, Puerto Ricans are American citizens, so it makes perfect sense to add the PR totals to the rest of the votes.

by Montague 2008-06-01 08:35PM | 0 recs

Except that the Clinton people don't add any other territory or the foreign American/American abroad votes.

by IowaMike 2008-06-01 08:45PM | 0 recs

I haven't been following it that closely.  Basically, they are neck and neck.  

by Montague 2008-06-01 08:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Everyone in PR is an American, THAT HAS NO VOTE IN THE GE!

They don't include foreign nationals in Clinton's pop vote, they don't count Guam, logic concludes you shouldn't include PR either.

by IowaMike 2008-06-01 08:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

what are you raving about?  

I stated it would be great to have PR as a state.  You have a problem with that?

PR is a stronghold for democrats.  It would be a big D and little d win for us

by colebiancardi 2008-06-01 08:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Responding to your comment that PR has Americans in it.

1. They are all Americans.

  1. This is truly a trivial win because PR doesn't vote in the GE.
  2. Making my own comment about people who automatically add this to a pop vote total (which is meaningless) when its, well, see #2.

by IowaMike 2008-06-01 08:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Obama won Guam by 7 votes.

It won't affect the metrics much.

by TCQuad 2008-06-01 08:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

The point being they only want to add what they think helps. The only consistent logic is "what makes my candidate look better." That is why the pop vote, especially in a year with the undemocratic (uncontested elections are undemocratic) messes in Florida and double especially Michigan.

by IowaMike 2008-06-01 08:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Sometimes I'm embarrassed to share a state with you.

by Montague 2008-06-01 08:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

If that assertion is based on the same kind of logic the Hillary supporters twist to find ways that she is winning, I'll take that as a compliment.

by IowaMike 2008-06-01 08:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Take it as you like.  I find it endlessly amusing that Obamacans think Obama is winning.  He truly cannot seal the deal.  He has only 50% of the votes (well, a bit less because Edwards and others got some of them early on).  The primary race is, by all measures, neck and neck.

by Montague 2008-06-02 04:27AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

I'm an Edwardian that wants to win this November. The math tells us the winner. If the situation was reversed, I'ld be telling the Obama people to start to heal themselves.

We can't afford a divided party.

by IowaMike 2008-06-02 07:11AM | 0 recs
We can't afford a divided party

I agree with that statement.  Too bad Obama didn't get the memo before he started destroying our chances to win.

Amongst other arrogant comments early on was his statement that he was sure he could all of Hillary's voters, but not sure that she could get all of his.  That one sure came back to bite him in the ass, didn't it?

Frankly, I've been supporting any Dem for president since forever, with the exception of Carter the first time (and I only voted for him the second time out of fear of Reagan winning) because Carter behaved like an asshat.  And frankly #2, I'm tired of supporting just anyone and I may even consider myself independent from now on.  This whole primary has gone WAY beyond the pale.  No comment about Roe v. Wade will change my mind, either.  What did Obama's wife say?  She's tired of being afraid?  Well, ditto here.  I'm tired of being threatened and I refuse to be frightened into voting for someone who is  so revolting to me.

by Montague 2008-06-03 10:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Damn the pundits and the cynics...

Hillary Clinton will be our next President.

by leisure 2008-06-01 08:01PM | 0 recs
Umm. Yeah.

Good luck with that.

by PhilFR 2008-06-01 08:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

can't win the championship if you can't get through the playoffs.

by IowaMike 2008-06-01 08:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

And the Patriots still have a chance to win the Super Bowl.

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-06-02 03:47AM | 0 recs
And a new Pfleger &quot;hate&quot; video segment!

Jake Tapper has it.

What he said:

"Rev. Pfleger: "America is the Greatest Sin Against God"

And here's Obama's nonresponse:

UPDATE: Asked for a response to this newly-posted excerpt from the sermon, the Obama campaign has re-released the same statement it issued last week after the video of Rev Pfleger's mocking of Sen. Clinton was released: "As I have traveled this country, I've been impressed not by what divides us, but by all that that unites us. That is why I am deeply disappointed in Father Pfleger's divisive, backward-looking rhetoric, which doesn't reflect the country I see or the desire of people across America to come together in common cause." - Sen. Barack Obama, D-Illinois

by katmandu1 2008-06-01 08:02PM | 0 recs
This is pretty ridiculous.

Why should Barack Obama need to answer for the words of others?

by mistersite 2008-06-01 08:07PM | 0 recs
Re: This is pretty ridiculous.

You didn't hear?  He's responsible anything bad anyone does.  Tomorrow morning a driver in LA is going to run a red light, and Obama will receive a ticket.

He was at least tied to Wright.  But Pfleger isn't employed with Trinity - this is really getting ridiculous.

by auronrenouille 2008-06-01 08:14PM | 0 recs
Re: This is pretty ridiculous.

I sneezed yesterday, and the person across from me on the train didn't say "gesundheit."

I demand Barack Obama apologize immediately for this grievous affront.

by mistersite 2008-06-01 08:43PM | 0 recs
Re: This is pretty ridiculous.

Pflegler has been Obama's buddy almost as long as Wright.  Both were "spiritual advisers" to his campaign until - well, you know until what.

by Tolstoy 2008-06-01 09:02PM | 0 recs
Re: This is pretty ridiculous.

To your point...If Barack is responsible for all associations in his past, so is the diarist.  Senator Clinton who accepts bundled money from someone spouting racist views needs to denounce and reject.  This is a two way street and you are trying to make it a one way road.  Please read this thread to debunk your comment.

by temptxan 2008-06-02 04:04AM | 0 recs
Re: This is pretty ridiculous.

Dunno.  I see your point, but then why does Obama keep cutting off ties with Wright, Pfleger, TUCC?

by Montague 2008-06-01 08:50PM | 0 recs
Re: This is pretty ridiculous.

the same reason Hillary has had to all along?

by zerosumgame 2008-06-01 08:51PM | 0 recs
oh joy!

That's nice dear.  What does this have to do with anything?

by Jess81 2008-06-01 08:08PM | 0 recs
Beautiful speech

by a beautiful woman---inside and out.  17 million people are not wrong, and the fight in her is amazing.  Go Hill!

by izarradar 2008-06-01 08:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Beautiful speech

An awful lot of people were very wrong about George W. Bush.

In any event, congrats to Hillary on going out with a strong win.

by PhilFR 2008-06-01 08:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Beautiful speech

Let's be honest: 17 million people are going to be at least a little up to and including incredibly disappointed come the convention, either 17 million Obama supporters or 17 million Clinton supporters.

Heck, if you figure that Montana had 95k show up to nominate Kerry in 2004, if Obama gets half of just that number (there'll surely be more) he'll be over 18 million in the complete estimate.

by TCQuad 2008-06-01 08:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Beautiful speech

Don't make me bust out some Kids in the Hall clips to refute that sort of logic.

Something about 30 Helens agreeing....

by Reaper0Bot0 2008-06-01 08:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Beautiful speech

It's probably true - Hillary is probably leading among women named Helen. I am suprised Ickes didn't bring that up.

As Helens go, so goes the nation.

by Cochrane 2008-06-01 09:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Beautiful speech

Some estimates put Obama at nearly 18 million votes. Not that Hillary doesn't have a lot. Obama just has more.

by Okamifujutsu 2008-06-01 11:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Beautiful speech

Inside and out?  Do you know her personally?  If not, how could you possibly know?

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-06-02 03:49AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Congrats to Hillary..

maybe if she is the nominee in the GE Puerto Rico will put her over the toap and she'll win the election.

oh wait.. nm, they get no EVs

by Why Not 2008-06-01 08:05PM | 0 recs
Interactive popular vote counter

here lets you choose which contests to include or leave out - it turns out that there are 972 ways of making a popular vote. I haven't had time yet to figure how many favor Senator Clinton and how many favor Senator Obama.

by Wee Mama 2008-06-01 08:06PM | 0 recs
Don't bother.

Just quickly find the one that gives your candidate of choice the greatest margin possible no matter dumb the assumptions are, and you'll fit in just fine.

by Jess81 2008-06-01 08:09PM | 0 recs

Please stop articulating my positions before I type them.

by HillsMyGirl 2008-06-01 08:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Puerto Rico! Can't win the GE without

by IowaMike 2008-06-01 08:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Gag me with a spoon.

by Cochrane 2008-06-01 08:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

all right i deserved those TRs. But I stand by my statement. The cognitive dissonance is just too much.

by Cochrane 2008-06-01 09:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

17 million voters = 14% of the electorate in 2004.  Curious how many people realize that most of the voters who will turn out this November didn't cast a ballot in these primaries.  

by IncognitoErgoSum 2008-06-01 08:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

That's nonsense.  How do you know what 80 million people who didn't vote in either primary but will vote in the general election will do?  The answer is you can't.

Now I'm so sick of the Obamabots.  Hillary won primaries in New York, California, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey.  It's obvious that Obama can't win those states in the general.  What happens in the primary is always an indicator of what people will do in the general.

I hope I've been clear about this.

by HillsMyGirl 2008-06-01 08:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

latest polls in California, they might want a revote. Obama leads Hillary by a lot.

by IowaMike 2008-06-01 08:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

not quite true:  17 mill. for HRC, plus 17 mill. for BHO, doubled (for REpubs) is about the same number of voters as in 04.

by slynch 2008-06-01 10:09PM | 0 recs
Just want to say Mike Barone=Idiot

Turnout of over 1 million and it being winner take all.  Man that guy is dumb.  Good diary alegre, I am heading out so as to avoid the arguments that spring up.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 08:21PM | 0 recs
Barone is

one of the right-leaning pundits who have been in the tank for Hillary the past couple of months.

by Cochrane 2008-06-01 09:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

I am so sick of the lies coming out of the Clinton camp...trying to do a bait and switch on illegitimate and unsanctioned primaries.  It's indefensible, and yet you people do it with such's sick.

by gorebeatbush2 2008-06-01 08:24PM | 0 recs

Why doesn't she want to count every vote, Alegre?

by slinkerwink 2008-06-01 08:25PM | 0 recs

You can't count caucus states.

There were people who showed up at these caucuses to vote for Hillary only to be intimidated by these young thugs who were throwing Starbucks lattes on Clinton voters and intimidating them.

I estimate that approximately 2 million Clinton voters were intimidated at these caucuses and left out of fear for their safety.

Are you going to count these 2 million voters who intended to vote for HIllary?

by HillsMyGirl 2008-06-01 08:34PM | 0 recs
You are back in character

and very funny.  You are even better than engels on the comedic scale.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 08:45PM | 0 recs

Um, have you ever been to one?

The Clinton supporters tended to be the old veterans who are damn well not intimidated by anyone. Way to stereo type your supporters!

by IowaMike 2008-06-01 08:53PM | 0 recs

you fell for our very own Steven Colbert.  Like how he plays a raging conservative on TV but he is a democrat in real life...

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 09:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Mike

oh well....just don't want people thinking Clinton supporters were a bunch of wilting violets, like the rules meeting the other day didn't show them to be.

by IowaMike 2008-06-01 09:12PM | 0 recs
You are late tonight

the thread got a lot of comments you have to post Is this Snark serious question to.

I kind of pity you, you work late into the night making every comment that is from your PoV 'dumb' have a reply that asks serious question is this snark...

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 08:33PM | 0 recs
Re: You are late tonight

Question, SG... does this person spam ONLY pro-Clinton diaries and comments?  I could be wrong, but that's how it seems to me.

by Montague 2008-06-01 08:38PM | 0 recs

last night they were doing it at 3:45 CST.

I find it annoying and wish they'd stop.  In fact I called them out on it a few days ago and got the mythical response.

It is just one person and most of us Obama people are sick of this one, now Is This Snark is a completely different character, he is actually quite funny as he only posts occaisonally and makes his posts really funny.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 08:44PM | 0 recs

I don't know the difference or if there is more than one - but the one who does it ad nauseum is VERY annoying.  And juvenile.

by Montague 2008-06-01 08:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah

BTW I was very amused by your "you're late tonight" comment. :)

by Montague 2008-06-01 08:47PM | 0 recs

and there is only one guy doing this.  The other guy with a similar ID doesn't go around saying to every pro-Clinton comment "Is this snark"  watch I'll post a comment in the diary that is pro-Clinton and see if I get it.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 09:10PM | 0 recs
See we got snarkized

and I am an Obama supporter, it is the comments the poster finds dumb, now if I post Obama Rules a lot (I won't get ask is this snark).

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 09:29PM | 0 recs
Re: See we got snarkized

Hmmmm.  I'm a Clinton supporter and it was attached to my own comment.  Also, this bot has snarked all over other comments of mine and probably realizes I'm a Clinton supporter.

Nonetheless, I won't doubt that the bot snarks on Obama supporters, too.  Perhaps I shouldn't have said anything about finding it annoying - that only encouraged it!

by Montague 2008-06-02 04:31AM | 0 recs
Now THAT'S disenfranchisement!

You want to know what disenfranchisement looks like?  Having a primary to choose a general election candidate but not allowing those same voters to vote for the winning candidate in the general election.  

I wonder if the votes would be different if Puerto Rico were a state?

by kellogg 2008-06-01 08:41PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Seems over the past few months I've been writing this more often than not regarding one fabulous win or another of Hillary's.

Yeah. But not enough of them to get her the nomination.


Congratulations on a hard fought loss.

Good game, good game.


It's over.


by BlueinColorado 2008-06-01 09:09PM | 0 recs
Congratulations to

Senator Clinton on her big win, may it provide momentum to her for the primaries in the easily winnable state of SD and the slightly harder row to hoe, MT.

Good luck to Sen. Clinton.

by Student Guy 2008-06-01 09:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

nd that's all thanks to our amazing candidate and her cracker-jack team of staff


Heh heh.

Hee hee hee.

Yeah, that Mark Penn? Genius!

Terry McAuliffe? Brilliant! Finest poiltical strategist since Karl Rove!

Howard Wolfson? Came so close to being the Scott McClellan of a new administration!

Lanny Davis? Who could doubt what he says about Hillary after he got Joe Lieberman so right!!

by BlueinColorado 2008-06-01 09:12PM | 0 recs
Do Puerto Rican Voice Count?

When they can't even vote for president?

by HisRoyalHighness 2008-06-01 09:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Uhh, did anyone else catch MSNBC playing "Living La Vida Loca" over Clinton claiming that she was ahead in the popular vote?

by ragekage 2008-06-01 09:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

I hope your summer is enjoyable alegre.
What candidates in your State will you be working for?

Peace.... 4M

by nogo postal 2008-06-01 09:38PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

17 million people... that's more votes than any other candidate has gotten - ever

Not counting the GE, and not counting Obama.

by mattw 2008-06-01 09:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Yes, more than Obama. The statement should be clarified to specify primaries.

by grlpatriot 2008-06-02 04:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Obama +44,667    +0.1%

Puerto Rico's turnout wasn't high enough for her to take the lead. And Obama will extend his lead in the next final 2 contests.

by mattw 2008-06-02 08:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!
War and no25cents are not healthful for ...well most everyone.
by nogo postal 2008-06-01 09:43PM | 0 recs
the land just loves to slide

in these primaries

by DiamondJay 2008-06-01 11:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Hillary Clinton is not leading in the popular vote: 2008/president/democratic_vote_count.htm l

Obama is leading by over 100,000 votes, unless you count the Soviet-style Michigan primary in which Obama was not on the ballot.

But even if you do count Michigan, Hillary's most loyal advocate on the DNC, Harold Ickes, IIRC, accepted the Michigan Democratic Party's estimate at the DNC meeting that 75% of the Michigan Uncommitted intended to vote for Obama, as did the vast majority of the 30,000 write-ins, which were not counted at all.  If you give Hillary her Michigan total, and Barack the voters that actually voted that day, and preferred him, he is still ahead by a little over 15,000 votes over all.  He is going to add to that lead in MT and SD and probably end up with about a 50,000-vote overall lead in the popular vote.

If you're tempted to argue that ZERO votes be counted for Obama from Michigan, here's the problem:  You're saying that those vote counts are estimates, not official votes.  But neither are Hillary's votes official votes.  The DNC did not sanction the election results, for the obvious reason that it was impossible, even for voters who wished to, to vote for most of the candidates.  The 69-59 delegate split was based on the DNC's rejection of the reported vote totals, and acceptance of the Michigan Democratic Party's estimate of how voter preference actually broke down on the day of the Michigan primary (based on the recorded vote totals but also other data).  The vote total you're claiming has no more official sanction than the other side's does.

The same is true for the argument that certain caucus states' vote totals should not be counted.  Just as you complain that Michigan voters' votes should not be discounted on a technicality, so caucus voters' votes should not be discounted on the basis that the tallies are unofficial.  No one contests those were valid contests, or that voters actually voted.  Excluding those votes would be far more "technical" and unfair than excluding votes from a contest where one candidate was not on the ballot (and the other candidate publicly announced the contest wouldn't count).

Finally, if you're going to count all the votes, you also have to count the primaries that took place in states that had already awarded their delegates by caucus.  Now you might say, "But those were just beauty contests.  Those voters knew their votes would not count for awarding delegates."  The problem with that argument is, the Michigan and Florida voters thought the same thing (and had been told the same thing) when they went to vote.  So how do you justify counting their votes but not those in the Idaho, Nebraska, Washington, etc. primaries?  This is from memory, but I believe that adds another 90,000 to Obama's margin.  So, when it's all over on Tuesday night, Obama will have won the popular vote by about 140,000.

My point is a simple one: Under any method of counting that applies a consistent set of principles, Obama has won the popular vote.

If you have an argument for a consistent approach to counting votes that puts Hillary in the popular vote lead, I'm all ears.

by kalman 2008-06-02 12:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Arbitrarily choosing numbers which favor Senator Clinton is consistent.

by really not a troll 2008-06-02 03:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

yes of course PR should be included in the popular vote tally when 4 of our states aren't.  That makes perfect sense!

by Tenafly Viper 2008-06-02 12:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!
Her advance staff has been told that Tuesday is their last day: 608/Clinton_camp_converging_on_New_York_ Tuesday_and_shedding_staff.html
by politicsmatters 2008-06-02 04:05AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

The primaries will be completed then. Makes sense to me.

by grlpatriot 2008-06-02 04:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Not if she is planning on campaigning during the summer against McCain as the Democratic Nominee right?  Wouldn't she need an advance staff to plan her campaign stops?

by RockvilleLiberal2 2008-06-02 04:39AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

This Democrat is still with Hill! All the way. The people have spoken, they have selected this party's nominee and that is Hillary Clinton. Now, if the party insiders want to overturn the will of the people then they will suffer at the ballot box.

by grlpatriot 2008-06-02 04:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Well, no, that's not exactly true. But whatever helps you sleep at night.

by authority song 2008-06-02 08:09AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Good for you.

Unwavering when being faced with reality (sounds eerily familiar).

Congratulations on your win yesterday in PR.

Sorry for your loss in the Primary.

Ball's in your court now. You may choose to do whatever you like going forward.

As for the rest of us, we will be working hard to make sure that Obama and the democrats take back the WH in November.

You are welcome to join us, or to stay home and sob the entire summer or vote for McCain.

Whatever you'd like.

by mukloidy 2008-06-02 08:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Gracia to the Hispanic community.  They are the swing vote in this year election.

by JoeySky18 2008-06-02 05:56AM | 0 recs
Had Florida and Michigan Counted To Being With

Voter turnout would have been at least doubled in both states. Demographically, Florida fits Clinton perfectly, more so than Ohio and Pennslyvania. Thus, Clinton would have won the popular vote in Florida by 600,000 and Michigan by over 100,000. Clinton would have won all popular vote metrics.

by Zzyzzy 2008-06-02 06:13AM | 0 recs
Re: Had Florida and Michigan Counted To Being With

What if's are not reality.

Clinton has lost the nomination. Obama will win Montana AND South Dakota tomorrow by double digits.

He has already indicated that he will declare victory when he reaches 2,118 delegates. Any other candidate would do the same.

If Hillary wants a future in the democratic party she will do all she can to Help Obama BECOME elected president of the US.

by BDM 2008-06-02 07:03AM | 0 recs
Muchos gracias, Puerto Rico

Many thanks to beautiful Puerto Rico for coming out to vote.

by joanneleon 2008-06-02 08:03AM | 0 recs
Re: Alegre - NYT Disses Clinton Rally in DC

NYT, the same paper that gave us Judith Miller and the same paper that cheered us into the Iraq war.

by joanneleon 2008-06-02 08:05AM | 0 recs
And endorsed Hillary Clinton.


by Jess81 2008-06-02 08:45AM | 0 recs
too bad they didn't turn out though right?

by hope monger 2008-06-02 08:13AM | 0 recs
by nogo postal 2008-06-02 09:35AM | 0 recs
by nogo postal 2008-06-02 09:37AM | 0 recs
Hillary Clinton will not be the nominee

for President this year.  I think that we have to accept that reality.

This doesn't mean stopping our support for her, or the issues she believes in.  I am committed to advocating for her positions on issues like health care, and for to attain a role on the ticket or in the next administration commensurate with her level of support in the party and her experience.  For me, this includes the VP slot if she wants it.

But facts are facts.   Neither candidate amassed enough support to win without the superdelegates.   Senator Obama makes a good case for the nomination by virtue of the pledged delegate win and his massive fundraising.   Senator Clinton makes a good case based on her popular vote win and stronger starting coalition for November (in my view).   But our experts have spoken, and they have broken for Senator Obama.  Both of these individuals are well qualified to be President of the United States.   We should respect the decision made by the superdelegates for the nomination and focus our support of Hillary on her causes and role in a future Obama administration.

by activatedbybush 2008-06-02 10:20AM | 0 recs
And I am very grateful for Hillary Clinton's

candidacy, and what it will mean for my daughters and all women in this country.   She may not have shattered the glass ceiling, but she has put a whole lot of cracks in it for the next person to come through it.  Maybe if she had had a bit more support from other women leaders in government, she would have broken through this time.  I will save my resentments for those women who were in a position to support her but did not do so.  

But for now I can say that I am very proud of my candidate, her ability to persevere, her intellect, her toughness, and her committment to principles that will help our country.  

by activatedbybush 2008-06-02 10:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Thank You Puerto Rico!

Yawn.  Really, they can't vote in national elections so you're going to say they somehow matter more than all that has come before?

by skywaker9 2008-06-02 10:57AM | 0 recs


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