Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos? (Updated - West Coast Event!)

Ok I think we've finally entered silly season here folks.  For a guy who got his big start by making a speech at an anti-war rally a few years back (a speech he seems to have built his entire campaign around), this statement by his campaign about this Saturday's protest at the DNC meeting in DC really does fly in the face of reason.

Apparently, one of his senior campaign managers (David Plouffe) told reporters during a recent presser that he didn't "think its a helpful dynamic to create chaos" at this meeting.

So let me get this straight... he hits the national scene by making a speech at a rally, but now we're not supposed to lobby for voting rights?  

Does anyone else see a serious disconnect in what Plouffe is saying here?

Well the folks who're helping to organize this chaotic dynamic (you know - the rally for voting rights?) have a few words to say in response to Plouffe's load of horse-pucky.  Take a look...

WOMENCOUNT PAC responds to Obama campaign's accusations of "creating chaos" at Saturday rally

San Francisco, CA  May 29, 2008 - WomenCount PAC strongly denounces the Obama campaign's claim that a planned rally before the DNC Rules Committee on Saturday is intended to "create chaos" and underscores that the event represents voters from more than 30 states gathering to stand up for the future of our country.

"We are coming to fight for a better world for our children and our grandchildren," said Susie Tompkins Buell, a founding member of WomenCount PAC. "So much is at stake in this election and we will not be accused of creating chaos when we are standing up for the democratic principle that every vote counts."

WomenCount PAC is a partner in the Count Every Vote '08 rally planned for Saturday, May 31st at the Marriott Wardman Hotel in Washington, D.C. The goal of the rally is to support the counting of every vote cast in Michigan and Florida.

In issuing this press release, the PAC is reacting to a comment made by Obama campaign manager David Plouffe who told reporters on Wednesday, "We don't think it's a helpful dynamic to create chaos" outside of the DNC meeting.

"We invited the Obama supporters to join with us in our efforts.  It is Senator Obama who continually speaks for raising our voices together and returning to the core democratic principles that formed this country," said Karen Feldman, the spokesperson for the Count Every Vote Rally '08 committee.  "Wasn't it Senator Obama who recently called for a change in Washington DC saying that every voice must count?"

"This is a civil rally aimed at exercising our first amendment right to free speech," said Rosemary Camposano, communications director for WomenCount PAC. "We believe strongly that the principles of our democracy are being compromised by having lawyers and small groups of people determine the outcome of elections rather than the democratic principal of `one person one vote'."

WomenCount PAC, in addition to supporting other women candidates for Congress in 2008, has endorsed Sen. Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign. The rally supports the PAC's message to continue the political process until every vote is cast and counted.

WomenCount PAC was created to ensure that the 51 percent of American citizens who are women have their values and votes counted in the political process.

Guys this latest statement by Plouffe is just another example of the double standards and sexism (yes sexism) that exists in this election process.  By claiming that our aim in rallying for voting rights is to create chaos around the decision process, he's trying to paint us "hysterical" or out of control.

We have no intent of causing chaos, so the only reason ther'd be chaos if their followers turned up is if they created it.  I'm sorry but that doesn't say much regarding his confidence that their folks can peacefully coexist with those rallying for voting rights.

See in their world, it's all right to speak out against an unjust war (and it is) but it's not all right to lobby decision-makers in the cause of full voting rights for over 2.3 million Americans.  That second bit is not only "ok" but it's the duty of every American who gives a shite about our basic freedoms.  Our right to vote is the cornerstone of our Democracy and for someone - especially a candidate for our Party's nomination for the highest office in the land to stand in the way of full representation of the voters (any voter!) is not only nuts - it's unthinkable!  We're Democrats and Democrats don't freaking do that.

Another cornerstone?  That'd be our freedom of speech - our right to peaceably assemble and make our voices heard.  Seems Obama's got a problem with that one as well.

And I'm sorry but if I ever hear him brag about all those new voters he's signing up or bringing into the "process" I'm going to scream.  The hypocrisy on so many levels here is just mind-blowing.

He can speak at rallies - but we can't assemble at one.  If we do we're creating chaos.

He can register voters - we're not allowed to exercise that right to vote once he's signed us up.

Only in Obama-land does this in any way shape or form make any sense.

I mean it's hardly like they're inviting rabble rousers like Abbie Hoffman (well they couldn't invite him - he's not with us any more) or domestic terrorists like that Ayers fella that Obama's known for all these years - is it.  

Here's a list of the scheduled speakers.  

WomenCount and Count Every Vote '08 Rally organizers announce speakers for DNC RBC rally May 31st

Stephanie Tubbs Jones, Kim Gandy and others to speak at rally

San Francisco, CA May 29, 2008 ~ The initial list of speakers for the rally in support of Count Every Vote '08 in Washington DC is being released.  Another 5 to10 speakers and celebrities will be announced one day later.

"We are very excited about the amount of support we are receiving from many prominent elected officials and organization leaders." announced Karen Feldman of Count Every Vote '08.  "These officials are as committed as we are to seeing that every vote cast in this election is counted fairly and proportionally.  They realize how high the stakes are if, once again, millions of voters feel their votes have been disregarded."

"My entire adult life has been dedicated to registering and inspiring young people to get involved and vote.  This is a logical continuation of that work.  How can we even think of ignoring 2.4 million voters in an election this close?" commented Jehmu Greene, who has agreed to emcee the rally.  "We must move away from the dangerous precedent of allowing small groups of people to determine the outcome of elections."

The following speakers are planned to address the rally crowd beginning at 9:45am.  The event will begin at the Marriott Wardman Park Hotel at 7:00am Saturday, May 31st and continue until the DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee has announced their decision.  A detailed time schedule will be released on Friday as well as 5 to 10 additional speakers and celebrities.

The speakers are:

Congresswoman Stephanie Tubbs Jones, OH 11th Congressional District
Congresswoman Corrine Brown, FL 3rd Congressional District
2008 Congressional Candidate Eric Massa, NY 29th Congressional District
Ambassador Elizabeth Bagley, Former US Ambassador to Portugal and Senior Adviser to Secretary Madeleine Albright
Kim Gandy, President of the National Organization for Women (NOW)
Brent Wilkes, National Executive Director, League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC)
Jehmu Greene, Former President of Rock the Vote
Lulu Flores, President, National Women's Political Caucus
Amy Rao, Founder, Integrated Archive Systems and President, 11th Hour Project
Reverend Marcia Dyson, African-American Minister from Washington, DC
Jim Hannagan, Founder, Florida Demands Representation

###

WomenCount PAC was created to ensure that the 51 percent of American citizens who are women have their values and votes counted in the political process.

Hmmm... Rock the Vote, President of NOW, Members of Congress, Ambassadors, members of the clergy... yeah we'd better watch out for that crowd - they mean trouble!

I'll be at this rally on Saturday (and no before you KosBoyz go after me for bringing my kids - we found a sitter), and I hope anyone who cares about voting rights will join us in DC on Saturday at 7 am at the Marriott Wardman Park Hotel (2660 Woodley Rd NW, Washington, DC MAP).

Need more info?  Email me.

U P D A T E

They've just added a west coast event tomorrow (Friday) as a sort of kick-off event for this, and to publicize the fact that they've collected 300,000 signatures on a petition to Howard Dean. Check it out...

'It's No Joke! Count Every Vote' Democracy Rally to Seat 100% of the Florida and Michigan Delegates and 100% of the Votes Cast at the World's Famous Laugh Factory in Hollywood

Place: WORLD'S FAMOUS LAUGH FACTORY 8001 SUNSET BLVD. WEST HOLLYWOOD, CA 90049 When: FRIDAY, MAY 30TH 2008 Time: 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. *WE MUST COUNT EVERY VOTE! *A record 2.35 million voters from Florida and Michigan participated in their respective primaries. It is un-American for their voices to be silenced. Their votes must be reflected in this process. *A decision must be made by May 31st so that the Florida and Michigan delegations can have a meaningful participation in the Democratic National Convention. * Florida and Michigan will be crucial states in the general election. We cannot afford to alienate the voters in these key states if we have any hope to win the general election.

(PRWEB) May 29, 2008 -- We have over 300,000 signatures!

How can we, as Democrats, brag about registering a million new voters while disenfranchising 2.3 million voters? There will be a press conference with special guest speakers and a FedEx person on hand to overnight the signatures to Howard Dean and the DNC Bylaws and Rules Committee.

Host:

Teri Bernardi, author of the upcoming book THE GAME OF LIFE & HOW TO PLAY IT WORKBOOK from DeVross Publishing, the leading metaphysical publishing house in the world. She is also President of Green Grown Products (a green company).

Chris Jackson, writer/actor/activist and former Chairman of Reverend Jesse Jackson's Operation PUSH Rainbow PUSH Hollywood Committee and consultant to the Citizen Education Fund.

This will be the only grassroots event on the West Coast the day before Howard Dean and the DNC Bylaws and Rules Committee meet in Washington, D.C. to decide in essence who may be closer to becoming the Democratic Party's nominee.

SPECIAL GUESTS: PAUL RODRIGUEZ (Comedian) PAUL MOONEY (Comedian) JAMIE MASADA (Laugh Factory Owner) DANA BALICKI (Code Pink - Stop the War Grassroots Movement) ERIKA ALEXANDER (Actress from Living Single and Hillary Clinton surrogate speaker) STEVEN YABARRA (Super Delegate)

Hundreds are scheduled to attend the LAUGH FACTORY RALLY so this will be an incredible photo opportunity for your newscast, magazine or newspaper with plenty of interview opportunities with comedians, activists and both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama supporters. Even a few Republicans will be on hand who have switched parties to support Democratic nominee in 2008.

PRESS CONTACT: Chris Jackson (323) 936-5210 or (310)895-3590 emergency cell email: loveallanimals2002@yahoo.com

http://my.barackobama.com/page/event/detail/communityservice/4qzk

Yesssss... that's right. This event is posted at Sen. Obama's site so maybe this is about voting rights. Food for thought.

Tags: 2008 elections, Democrats, DNC, obama, president (all tags)

Comments

275 Comments

Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

I thought we were in favor of voting rights.

by alegre 2008-05-29 06:04PM | 0 recs
Finally entered the silly season?

Is that snark?

by Black Anus 2008-05-29 06:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Finally entered the silly season?

For Alegre to actually acknoledge how silly the season has always been........

THIS MUST BE SNARK!

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-05-29 06:05PM | 0 recs
Seriously

Isn't it past your bed time?

by alegre 2008-05-29 06:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Seriously

Well at least you didnt call me "boy"

Although you did in your last post

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-05-29 06:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Seriously

I won't make an obnoxious comment like you did, but your whole argument is wrong, as I've explained below.

Short version -- He wasn't saying that one group of demonstrators would produce chaos.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:10PM | 0 recs
Is this how you get votes -

YOU'RE WRONG! Vote for my guy! So enchanting and seductive!

by catfish2 2008-05-29 06:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Is this how you get votes -

New rules:

One can't correct the diarist's statements of facts -- which are in fact wrong.

Also, one can't complain when the diarist insults posters.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:19PM | 0 recs
Old Rules: ask for their votes

do not insult them into submission, it doesn't work!

by catfish2 2008-05-29 06:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Old Rules: ask for their votes

I haven't insulted anyone.  I'd just like the diarist to correct the diary.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Old Rules: ask for their votes

Catfish has to be a chaos troll.  Nobody is that obtuse.

by map 2008-05-29 06:52PM | 0 recs
Obtuse is an insult.

Serious question - how old are you?

by catfish2 2008-05-30 01:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Seriously

He doesn't want his supporters to attend the meeting because he doesn't want to be associated with signs like:

"Process Over People"

"Stop Counting the Votes"

"Punish Michigan"

"Florida Should Never Vote Again"

"Honor Rule 20.C.1.a"

Obama's position on this matter is a total embarrassment both for him and the party.  It's pretty obvious why he doesn't want publicity associated with his stealth stance against millions of voters and two major states.

If I were attending the rally, I'd just bring a sign with Michigan and Florida colored in red.  

by BPK80 2008-05-30 12:24AM | 0 recs
you are

trolling and spamming.

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 06:18PM | 0 recs
Re: you are

Any amount of money you want says that this is someone who was banned for tr'ing Alegra when she said that.

I'm not excusing trolling and spamming, but I am saying that when 20-odd posters were stripped of their rec'ing privileges, the fact that Alegre would from that point forward be unable to post anything without a million *Is this snark?*s filling up her diaries was 100% predictable.

by Jess81 2008-05-29 06:26PM | 0 recs
Re: you are

Jerome made a huge mistake doing that.

And of course Alegre came out the next day, said something to the effect of:
It wasnt me, but screw you guys anyways you got what you deserved.

And people wonder why.

Politics is never a one way street, only Republicans believe that and look where it got them!

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-05-29 06:31PM | 0 recs
Jerome loves Alegra.
Can't stand Obama. So there you go.
I can't wait until these haters make fools of themselves by disrupting the process on Saturday. They'll make the ugly republican  thugs who shut down the recount look good.
by TheFullBerry 2008-05-29 07:43PM | 0 recs
Re: you are

I really wonder about many of you.

Why do you do these stupid things? What are you trying to accomplish?

Are you still in high school or what?

geeez.

"Hope, Unity and Change" - great words ... if you live them and believe in them.

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 06:49PM | 0 recs
are you

a snark?

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 06:58PM | 0 recs
I am so happy for you

and all of your off spring.

way to go! Way to show what a proud O supporter you are!

WhooHoo!

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 07:02PM | 0 recs
uh

no you are not.

see ya.

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 07:22PM | 0 recs
Re: I am so happy for you

I'd like to remind you that the term "Obamapod" is an attack on other users and against the guidelines of this site.

by Djo Dos 2008-05-29 07:30PM | 0 recs
by the way

I am one of those weird ones that kind of likes that song and the video cracks me up.

So... thanks. Now I know you really care!  

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 07:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Is your troll rating snark?

well at least it's easy to see who's sock-puppet you are

by zerosumgame 2008-05-29 07:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Seriously

That's definitely snark.  Bad snark.  But snark.

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-05-29 07:32PM | 0 recs
STOP CALLING OBAMA SUPPORTERS BOYZ.
You hypocrisy is vulgar, crude, and ugly.
Go run to Jerome now little girl and cry.
See? You don't like that too much, do you?
Disgusting.
by TheFullBerry 2008-05-29 07:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Finally entered the silly season?

No, Alegre's become a troll, is all. But that's to be expected.

by ragekage 2008-05-29 06:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Finally entered the silly season?

Exactly.

by ragekage 2008-05-29 07:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Finally entered the silly season?

TR"s for off-topic bandwidth hogging spam of unattributed probably copyrighted material in violation of fair use.

by trytobereal 2008-05-29 07:17PM | 0 recs
You undermine your own work...

...after posting a couple of the best diaries I've seen from you all season--and the first things I've ever rec'd from you--you go and screw up all that heart-tugging (apparently disingenuous) unity prose with cheap-shot comments like this?

So much hypocrisy...so little time.

by bobswern 2008-05-29 07:37PM | 0 recs
Re: You undermine your own work...

Uh huh.

Bob, we may disagree, but how many times have I made a point in regards to a diary of yours, and not stuck around to defend it? Or vice versa- how many times have you just ignored it?

I don't think ever. No, you stand and fight it, and while we may disagree, you don't just give up, do you? And you don't engage in ad hominem attacks, usually- at least, not as a stand alone. You certainly do get personal at times, but I think it's amusing rather than insulting. It's tough times, we're all on edge, I can understand it.

However, I've never seen Alegre do this, ever. She never sticks around for hard discourse, she's never up to taking a serious look at the disingenuous things she writes- she doesn't even try. And she regularly relies on ad hominem attacks to carry the day for her, or real Clinton supporters to try and step up and carry her weight, like you.

This far from a cheap shot. This is a biting commentary of the diarist's inability to actually raise the level of discourse. If it weren't for the HI44 crew she gets to auto-rec her diaries every time they come on the list, then she wouldn't even get on the rec list.

See, someone like you, we have sharp words, but I still respect you as a person. Like here- you're standing up for something you believe in. That's something Alegre would never do for you, and between the two of you, I'd damn well rather have you on my side, and consider you to be a proper representative of a Clinton supporter.

But that's just what I think; think what you will.

by ragekage 2008-05-29 07:46PM | 0 recs
Exactly who are the...

...HI44 crew she gets to auto-rec her diaries?


by bobswern 2008-05-29 08:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Exactly who are the...

Pop open her rec list, and compare 'em. dot48, 1950sDemocrat, there's a bunch of them in there, and if you'll notice that they never respond to the thread- or any thread, for that matter- but quickly and instantly recommend her work regardless of the content, whereas you and I have to work damn hard to write a good diary and hope people actually appreciate the content to get it on the rec list.

by ragekage 2008-05-29 08:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Exactly who are the...

Good old Dot,

dot48 Says:
May 6th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
...The whites need to step up or be shit outta luck with this dude and his creepy anti American background and his hateful wife.
-end quote.

by catilinus 2008-05-30 01:11AM | 0 recs
This is definitely troll behavior

Just look at Plouffe's full quote:

"Obviously, with the click of a mouse it would be pretty easy for us in the mid-Atlantic to get thousands of people there, but we don't think it's a helpful dynamic to create chaos and in the interest of party unity, we're encouraging our supporters not to protest."

For fucksakes, how could it not be crystal clear that he's stating that the Obama people have been asked to stay away in order to avoid the possibility of a nasty confrontation? How does someone look at this and conclude he's accusing the Clinton gathering of creating chaos on their own?

Note also Alegre's use of the word "Allegedly" to introduce the quote. In other words alegre knows damn well what he said, it just looks better when she puts it in her own warped context instead of the original.

Fuck that. You write a full frigging diary about a quote that you had to take out of context to make it seem inflammatory? People are reccing this shit?

What trash. This is the lowest form of troll bullshit.

by 79blondini 2008-05-29 10:24PM | 0 recs
Re: This is definitely troll behavior

She's just grasping . . .

by vadasz 2008-05-29 11:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Finally entered the silly season?

Did you read past the 1st line?

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-29 08:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Finally entered the silly season?

Yes, I did, thanks for asking. And let me tell you: it was painful! As about 2,000 commenters have pointed out, Alegra was dead wrong on her interpretation of Plouffe's comments. But did she acknowledge that in any way, or pull her diary? Of course not. That would seem to pretty strongly imply that Allergy's completely uninterested in any intellectually honest debate or discussion. Wouldn't you agree?

By the way, I never get past the first line of your stupid ass diaries.

by Black Anus 2008-05-29 08:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Finally entered the silly season?

Hide rate abuse, ex, Tex? I think your time has come and gone here at MyDD. We don't need your brand of vitriol, rhetoric, and invective anymore. But thanks anyway!

by ragekage 2008-05-29 09:13PM | 0 recs
It's not about voting rights. Corinne Brown's

district went for Obama heavily.

Stephanie Tubbs-Jones went for Obama even more heavily.

by bobdoleisevil 2008-05-29 06:05PM | 0 recs
Umm Yeah...

Deval Patrick
John Kerry
Ted Kennedy (may he beat his illness)

See? Two can play this game.

by alegre 2008-05-29 06:08PM | 0 recs
They're protesting Democrats? Really?

Are you sure?

by bobdoleisevil 2008-05-29 06:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

I wish you guys would find a real issue to protest.  Like voting rights.

by Jess81 2008-05-29 06:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

I've corrected your misstatements of the facts below
http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/5/29/2 232/22911/13#13

Now that you see where you misunderstood what Plouffe said, I'm sure you'll quickly correct the diary.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:22PM | 0 recs
We're in favor of honest analysis

Here's the FULL quote which you've taken out of contest:

   "We are not encouraging our people to gather and protest on Saturday," he said. "With the click of a mouse it would be pretty easy for us in the Mid-Atlantic to gather thousands of people."

   "We don't think it's a helpful dynamic to create chaos," he said, citing the interests of "party unity" as "we wind down the primary."

by reconad 2008-05-29 06:39PM | 0 recs
Re: We're in favor of honest analysis

Yeah, the chaos would come from having dueling demonstrations. That's what Plouffe said could be easily organized but that they would refrain from organizing as not to produce chaos.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:42PM | 0 recs
I thought we were in favor of reality.

because it seems all you can do is misrepresent it.

Honestly Alegre, did it ever occur to you that it's not about YOU?

Jesus Christ are you DONE yet?  When is this idiocy going to end?  

by DawnG 2008-05-29 06:51PM | 0 recs
Re: I thought we were in favor of reality.

never.  Whether or not Hillary concedes, she'll be pushing for her right up until the convention.  And when Obama is the nominee, I'm sure she'll be out there stumping for McCain.

She's delusional and dishonest, and every diary proves it.

by thereisnospoon 2008-05-29 07:25PM | 0 recs
But why is that celebrated here?

People throw out diaries accusing Obama of ridculous sins that NEVER HAPPENED.  They project all the evils of the world on him but that's just fine and dandy.

It's downright pathalogical!  when are we going to get beyond this?

by DawnG 2008-05-29 07:34PM | 0 recs
Re: I thought we were in favor of reality.

No I don't think it has occured to her.  I'm interested from a psychological standpoint as to how she will react to Obama's inevitable claiming of the nomination.

Denial, acceptance, or anger?  Maybe she will continue to produce the same 'disconnected from reality drivel' that has been her hallmark here as of late.  

I'm interested to see how the Hillary dead-enders handle the endgame.

by cato 2008-05-29 09:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

isn't that what all the Clinton supporters are calling what Obama supporters threaten to do in Denver if she manages by some miracle to thieve the nomination?

by thereisnospoon 2008-05-29 07:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

It's sexist to suggest an angry mob outside a committee meeting is unhelpful???

Sigh.

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-05-29 07:27PM | 0 recs
Voting rights - but only if they favor Clinton?

Clinton supporters seem to have just the opposite view when it comes to Collin County, Texas.

by kevinwparker 2008-05-29 07:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Why didn't Hillary fight for innocent lives when the Iraq war vote was taking place? That was a more serious issue. Is your outrage all revolving around a cult of perosnality?

by Pravin 2008-05-29 08:14PM | 0 recs
Re:

reaching alegre.....always reaching

by citizendave 2008-05-29 06:05PM | 0 recs
Re:

So did anyone notice what is missing from the Diary?

Pick three permanent items in an Alegre diary, and figure out whats missing.

Quite profound considering the history here.

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-05-29 06:14PM | 0 recs
Donate gang?

by lizardbox 2008-05-29 06:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Donate gang?

Bingo, you win a prize of heavy mojo.

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-05-29 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: Donate gang?

No call out to the superdelegates either.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:44PM | 0 recs
Re:

No Hillary headshot.

by Cochrane 2008-05-29 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re:

DOH!

I totally missed that.

Maybe she is doing Hillary a favor and not associating her face and raising money with some embarrassing attempt to disrupt the nominating process.

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-05-29 06:23PM | 0 recs
She also doesn't have a link to anty of this...

if she did.  It would have been even quicker for people to point out that Plouffe was not speaking about Clinton supporters protesting, but competing protests from both sides leading to chaos.  But these diaries have become more and more desperate in recent days, so I guess when you're desperate harder to include the supporting evidence.

by nklein 2008-05-29 06:23PM | 0 recs
Re: She also doesn't have a link to anty of this..

Wrong. Plouffe is threatening the very foundations of democracy.

by Black Anus 2008-05-29 06:37PM | 0 recs
Hey, stop picking on alegre

Alegre has been one of hillary's most effective supporters.

Back in the summer of 2007, HIllary was a distant 3rd to Edwards and Obama.  Remember, Hillary finished 3rd in Iowa.

But with the help of alegre, Hillary has inspired new voters to her side and HIllary has been the comeback kid.

Without Alegre, Hillary never would have won New Hampshire or many of the Super Tuesday states.

And now, Hillary has WON THE SECOND HALF.

Yes she's won the second half thanks to alegre's spirt, alegre's honesty, and HIllary's willingness to be associated with this honest, ethical blogger.

by HillsMyGirl 2008-05-29 06:30PM | 0 recs
Let's be clear

Alegra is far out of reach.

by reconad 2008-05-29 07:06PM | 0 recs
Best ... username ... ever.

by bobdoleisevil 2008-05-29 06:05PM | 0 recs
Ok Kiddies...

Time to toddle off home now - it's getting dark and the park's closing for the day.

Scoot now!

by alegre 2008-05-29 06:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Ok Kiddies...

What ever happened to your commitment to civil dialogue and your distaste for name-calling?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:11PM | 0 recs
She's an age bigot.

Hide-worthy, naturally.

by bobdoleisevil 2008-05-29 06:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Ok Kiddies...

are you kidding me that you are participating in this?

by canadian gal 2008-05-29 06:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Ok Kiddies...

Participating in what? I'm trying to correct the diarist's misstatement of facts.

Contrary to what the diary says, Ploufee did NOT say that one demonstration would produce chaos.

He said that the Obama campaign would not organize counter-demonstrations.

If facts are wrong, it should be more than acceptable to correct them.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:28PM | 0 recs
come on now...

thats not what you were doing in that comment at all.

for the most part - any diary that isnt pro-BO or anti-HRC is inundated with idiotic comments, general nastiness and attacking the diarist.  there are a some users that are exceptions here and i thought you were one of them.

you know - if this continues much longer alot of people will leave mydd, myself included.  when did this group of bullies become the arbiters of what's allowed here? what a disgrace.

by canadian gal 2008-05-29 06:35PM | 0 recs
Re: come on now...

I asked if the diarist believed in civil dialogue after she posted this comment:

Time to toddle off home now - it's getting dark and the park's closing for the day.

Scoot now!

which I found to be insulting and uncivil.

CG, do you really think that's a good example of how people should be talking to each other? I think it's not and one of the kinds of things that inflames folks.  If we are going to, as you put it, just stop this, it has to be on all sides.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:40PM | 0 recs
Re: come on now...

all sides?  i agree.  but if every diary you posted was filled with this nonsense, i think you would lose your cool too.

but as they say - all it takes for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing.

by canadian gal 2008-05-29 06:50PM | 0 recs
Re: come on now...

I agree that "is it snark" repeated over and over again is obnoxious and certainly doesn't contribute to good dialogue or community-building.

My understanding is that some are posting that repetitively to poke fun at the diarist who was quite prolific in its use.

In other words, rather than responding to the substance of arguments, the diarist often asked "Is it snark?"

It was rather annoying then and it is rather annoying now as well.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:58PM | 0 recs
boo the hell hoo.
poor alegra. always the victim. always crying. always everyone is picking on her as she bats her troll eyelashes and goes "oh who meeeeeeeee? wah. "  she pulled this same crap on Daily Kos. Starting huge problems by writing vicious, ugly, nasty cruel smear jobs against Obama and his supporter that were filled with lies. Then getting questioned on it - and then posting ugly one line nasty replies.
Then of course she ran off the blog crying every night, only to repeat this passive aggressive behavior the next night for months.
She had to leave because no one could take her abusive behavior any longer. And now she pulls it here. People get upset with her. And you blame the true victims.
This is beyond pathetic
by TheFullBerry 2008-05-29 07:48PM | 0 recs
Re: come on now...

CG, Alegre's stopped being a paragon of... well, anything, and moved right into troll territory. If you want to think I'm biased in saying that, fine, but for instance, you or Sricki would never post drivel like this- and you'd certainly stick around to make your point instead of engaging in hit and run ad hominem attacks.

For instance, if you have a problem with me or something I've said, I've come to expect you'll damn well stand up for yourself and the point you're trying to make, and I expect no less. However, I've never seen Alegre do that.

She may be on your team, but I don't think she's the kind of person you want representing you. I think you're a helluva better representative of Clinton than her- and you're not even American.

by ragekage 2008-05-29 06:46PM | 0 recs
Re: come on now...

That's exactly what they want.  They want this site to become a Kos-like echo chamber.

by Tolstoy 2008-05-29 07:09PM | 0 recs
Re: come on now...

Hi Luntz!  Or is it Big Dave now?  I'd guess maybe B.J. Bob, but though obnoxious, he's too intelligent and mature to play little boy games.  Well, go on about your pranks.  Eventually you'll end up in the principal's office or juvenile dentention.

by Tolstoy 2008-05-29 07:38PM | 0 recs
Hey be quiet Obama supporter

She never calls anybody names.

She is always civil

She is the best blogger on the internet

She will be voted the most honest blogger in the internet in 2008

Stop being sexist.

by HillsMyGirl 2008-05-29 06:26PM | 0 recs
WTF?

Is your problem...  with young people?

by reconad 2008-05-29 06:15PM | 0 recs
Re: WTF?

WTF?  

It is not about "young" people, it is how some O supporters act like kids, children, spoiled brats, etc.

Get it?

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 06:20PM | 0 recs
Re: WTF?

Oh, c'mon now.  Kids will be kids.  I think someone's cranky!

by reconad 2008-05-29 06:22PM | 0 recs
Re: WTF?

Could you give an example, please, and also distinguish it from the diarist getting the premise of the diary wrong and not acknowledging it or making a correction?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:23PM | 0 recs
You know what

it is HER diary NOT yours.

I need to give you an example of some O supporters acting like kids? Oh my god!

Let me just point to ONE and I believe this is a sock puppet for another user, "IsItSnark".

There are so many more.

It is absolutly stupid the way so many of you clamor to alegre's diaries and other Clinton diaries simply to be snarky, trollish, kids.

Once again... if you think or know that O has this all sewn up, then WHY do so many of you O supporters troll around just to cause trouble?

"Hope, Unity and Change" - wonderful words.... if you live them and believe in them.

hm.

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 06:28PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what

I agree that some Obama supporters are childish. But that doesn't mean that Clinton supporters should label all critiques as such and this does happen around here.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:29PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what

I do not label all O supporters as kids. Only the ones that act like kids.

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 06:40PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what

If Alegra wants to keep her diary to herself, she should print it out and hang it from her fridge.  Otherwise, her words are open for debate.  (Posting at No Quarter might serve a similar purpose.)

by reconad 2008-05-29 06:31PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what

posting trollish spam is BS.

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 06:39PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what

Yes, continue posting that comment throughout this diary.  It helps you make your point more clearly.

by reconad 2008-05-29 06:42PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what

I do... ?

Give me a break. I think I posted it a couple of times. But the snark "person has posted their spam how many times, in how many diaries and many of you O supporters give this person mojo?

give

me

a

break.

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 06:46PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what

I

really

like

the

way

that

you

illustrate

your

point

using

creative

posting

methods.

by reconad 2008-05-29 06:51PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what

I am glad you like it.

okie

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 06:56PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what

Back to the main event....

Alegra's diaries get the treatment that they deserve.  They're thoughtless cut and paste campaign astroturf efforts.  Last night, she went so far as to repost one of her favorites.  She's not willing to engage in any sort of discourse.  As such, they're nothing more than an open comment thread.  I think it would be nice if someone would post some recipes.

Further, I don't suspect that even she is surprised to see her own words used against her.  She's shown disdain for Obama and his supporters and seems to relish the scorn that her diaries inevitably attract.  

by reconad 2008-05-29 07:04PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what

First off, the way SHE chooses to make and post her diaries is HER choice not yours!

WHO cares if she reposted an old diary. Really... who cares? Did it harm you in some way?

Engage in discourse? Oh god.... what happens is her diaries become full of crap comments. Also, please tell me where it says that you MUST "engage" in the comments?

I do not hate Obama or his supporters. What I hate are the asshole "O Kids" that pollute diaries with their trollish spam comments. It is why I rarely go to Dkos anymore (even before Edwards dropped out - he was my first choice). The kids took over at Dkos, especially after markos decided to go the bash and hate route towards the Clintons and anyone who supports them.

Alegre's diaries deserve no more trolling and spamming then any "name" Obama supporters diaries do. It is BS to do so.

If you want to challenge what she says in her diaries and post your n"facts" or your "corrections", then great. Why do you think you deserve a personal response just for doing so? Because you are a "blogger"?

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 07:16PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what

You're right, she is free to post whatever she likes.  But to pretend that she's adding anything to the discourse is disingenuous at best.  As I said, she posts virtually nothing but cut and paste bullet points from the Clinton camp and never answers any questions or criticisms of her posts.  As such, I ask you:  What point do they serve?  This is a small community of posters.  Surely, she doesn't think that an Obama supporter is going to read the talking points and say "Holy shit, what was I thinking, I'd better run off to Washington and protest before it's too late?"  Nope.  The only movement in thinking seems to occur in the comments.  Through dialog.  And yes, her diaries are littered with meaningless snipes.  I believe that by avoiding any real discourse, she's to blame.  (Not to mention her drive by "Is this snark" comment which started the whole kerfuffle.)  

by reconad 2008-05-29 07:29PM | 0 recs
Is this serious?

Snark question.

by grass 2008-05-29 07:49PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what
If Alegra wants to keep her diary to herself, she should print it out and hang it from her fridge.

HA!!! Awesome comment.
by map 2008-05-29 06:58PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what

isn't it!? Wow!

I want to thank each and every one of you for spreading all the warm and fuzzies! You are all so awesome!

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 07:05PM | 0 recs
My Heavens!

Do I detect the slightest trace of sarcasm?

by reconad 2008-05-29 07:08PM | 0 recs
Re: My Heavens!

(Checks sarcasm detector)

Are you kidding?  This baby's off the charts!

by Captain Bathrobe 2008-05-29 09:47PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what

Get over yourself.  

The diarist routinely posts completely false propaganda and then refuses to correct it.  Most people long ago stopped even attempting to have a dialog with her, which is the reason she fled from DKoS.

I agree the "is this snark" thing is out of control, but that's more a response to Jerome's knee jerk overreaction than it is to anything Alegre did.

by map 2008-05-29 07:08PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what

You get over your self righteous self.

She "fled" from dkos? HA!

I also rarely go to dkos anymore because of what the O kids did and do over there. I would post a simple rah rah diary and a push for fund raising and support and it would get spammed and bombarded with tons of hate filled, obnoxious, arrogant asses posting crap comments!

So... get of your high horse and remember these words... try and live and believe in them... OK?...

Hope, Unity and Change - aren't these words just swell!?

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 07:21PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what
She "fled" from dkos? HA!

Actually, yeah.  People got tired of her never responding on substance and began openly  mocking her, and she fled.  You are seeing the same dynamic here.
by map 2008-05-29 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: You know what

I sense a strike coming on!

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-05-29 07:36PM | 0 recs
A few lines from her DKOS swan song

Sadly, the majority of the administrators have allowed this hostile environment to develop in our online community for anyone who isn't planted firmly in the Obama camp.  They've routinely ignored personal attacks and allowed disruptive, spam-like posts to go unchecked whenever anyone expresses support for Hillary or challenges something their candidate has said or done.  There are however several front-pagers who have managed to avoid taking part in the attacks on Hillary and for that I'm grateful.  But the site has grown to the point where they simply can't - or won't monitor it.  

As a result, our community has become little more than an echo chamber with an attitude that harkens back to the early days of Dubbya's administration - yer either with us or yer a'gin us, heh!  The attackers and disrupters are no better than Chris Matthews with their sexism, hate, lies, and obsession with bashing - all - things - Hillary.

by reconad 2008-05-29 07:38PM | 0 recs
Wait...

That really was snark!!!

by Djo Dos 2008-05-29 07:49PM | 0 recs
Re: WTF?

I know.

Almost all of Obama's supporters are these young people.

They are a bunch of spoiled brats.

All rich spoiled brats.

They should drink their lattes elsewhere.

by HillsMyGirl 2008-05-29 06:27PM | 0 recs
Re: WTF?

ha   ha .. h a

whatever.

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 06:28PM | 0 recs
Re: WTF?

I tend to agree that it's gotten silly.  The new users (or old ones with new names) acting childish has gotten old very quickly.  Of course, at some point, responding to the daily dose of dishonesty with logic and seriousness must get old.  

Personally, I'll be happy when both are over.

by freedom78 2008-05-29 06:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Ok Kiddies...

The difference between what you say in your diaries (about people being mean to those who agree with you) and what you say in your comments (i.e. being mean to people who don't agree with you) is the biggest double standard I've ever seen. You deserve every troll rating you get, although I'm sure everyone who did it will have their privileges taken away for "piling-on."

by CrazyDrumGuy 2008-05-29 07:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Ok Kiddies...

ok, this is definitely troll-worthy.  The ageism is getting really, really old.  How would you like it if I insulted your gender?

Oh, right.  Never mind.

by thereisnospoon 2008-05-29 07:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Ok Kiddies...

Troll.

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-05-29 07:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Ok Kiddies...

We've had several diaries talking about the disrespect younger members on this site, and the disrespect/humor older Obama supporters feel when they are referred to in ways such as kiddie and boyz. I'd ask you to please stop.

by Djo Dos 2008-05-29 07:40PM | 0 recs
To paraphrase Richard J. Daley

Gentlemen, get this straight - the Clinton supporters are not going to the meeting to CREATE disorder.  The Clinton supporters are going to PRESERVE disorder.

by nightsweat 2008-05-29 06:06PM | 0 recs
Gentlemen? SEXIST!!!!! Alegre's female.

by bobdoleisevil 2008-05-29 06:07PM | 0 recs
Like Stephen Colbert

I just don't see gender.  Gets me in trouble in restrooms all the time.

by nightsweat 2008-05-29 06:09PM | 0 recs
Protesting democrats

isn't that what Republicans do?

Trust these people to do their jobs. You yammering on the streetcorner isn't going to intimidate them.

by notme54 2008-05-29 06:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

You're missing the point, Alegre. The chaos wouldn't come from one demonstration but by dueling demonstrations with Democrats shouting at each other. That would undermine the party severely in the eyes of independents and would harden the lines within the party.

So there won't be a counterdemonstration, thus no chaos.

Now that you understand what Plouffe said, I'm sure you'll want to correct your diary, since you surely wouldn't want to purvey disinformation.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Exactly right. And I'm thinking that Alegra's too smart not to know that. Therefore, her diary must be SNARK.

by Black Anus 2008-05-29 06:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

And I even read the whole thing - really!

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Save your bytes.

This is just more gristle for the well-oiled umbrage machine.

by zonk 2008-05-29 06:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Did he say this? All I see is the "apparently", which I can't distinguish as either a segue or a statement of uncertainty. Did he say "hysterical" too, since that was in quotes?

Can anyone show the source for this?

by TCQuad 2008-05-29 06:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

she knows.  It's like Scott McClellan.

She's not stupid.  Sh's a lying hack--and almost certainly a paid lying hack.  There's a difference.

by thereisnospoon 2008-05-29 07:29PM | 0 recs
well, see, this democracy is a dangerous thing.

it can get out of hand if there's too much of it.

by campskunk 2008-05-29 06:08PM | 0 recs
well, see, this democracy is a dangerous thing.

Yeah - we dn't want TOO many people voting now - do we? :)

by alegre 2008-05-29 06:11PM | 0 recs
Re: well, see, this democracy is a dangerous thing

nope. the democratic party shouldn't be a democracy, as many people have been arguing recently. it should be a republic ;-)

by campskunk 2008-05-29 06:15PM | 0 recs
Re: well, see, this democracy is a dangerous thing

Actually, not enough did vote in FL and MI to make the results meaningful. As you undoubtedly know, the turnout was below basically every other nominating contest, far below, suggesting that a lot of people didn't vote since everyone -- including Senator Clinton -- said it wouldn't count.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:16PM | 0 recs
Re: well, see, this democracy is a dangerous thing

Which is why, I believe, Sen. Clinton and her backers agreed to re-votes, even offered to raise money to pay for them.

by TexasDarlin 2008-05-29 08:45PM | 0 recs
Re: well, see, this democracy is a dangerous thing

Apparently we don't, if they live in Puerto Rico, South Dakota or Montana. Otherwise, why would we have declared "she's won the second half" before that half (however one chooses to define it) is over and all the votes are counted?

Seriously, would a reply to this question - a legitimate and polite one, I think - be out of line, in the interests of fair and honest dialogue among fellow Democrats?

by ipsos 2008-05-29 06:26PM | 0 recs
Too bad you've missed Plouffe's point entirely

as well as Obama's. They didn't tell Hillary supporters what to do, or what not to do. They merely requested that Obama's supporters not engage in counter-demonstrations. Sorry. You FAIL.

by Black Anus 2008-05-29 06:08PM | 0 recs
Yeah Right...

They're only trying to make sure the votes of 2.3 million voters are cut in half.

by alegre 2008-05-29 06:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah Right...

That's better than them not counting at all, which Hillary Clinton agreed to.

by Jess81 2008-05-29 06:14PM | 0 recs
Ooh, burn. n/t

by Angry White Democrat 2008-05-29 06:58PM | 0 recs
People will go to the convention

representing their states even though they broke the rules.

The people of Fl & MI will feel totally franchised by seeing their delegates acting the fool at the convention and everything will be fine.

by notme54 2008-05-29 06:16PM | 0 recs
FAIL AGAIN

You claimed that Obama was telling Hillary supporters not to protest. FAIL!

by Black Anus 2008-05-29 06:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah Right...

then let's just burn the primary calendar completely!  Free for all it is.  Let Alaska have the first primary two years before the convention--whaddaya gonna do, disenfranchise 'em?

by thereisnospoon 2008-05-29 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Yeah Right...

By asking his supporters NOT to "lobby" the RBC?

You've run out of steam Alegre.  You are backed into a corner where in order to continue you need to take positions that are increasingly ridiculous.

I almost feel sorry for you.

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-05-29 07:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

I mean it's hardly like they're inviting rabble rousers like Abbie Hoffman (well they couldn't invite him - he's not with us any more) or domestic terrorists like that Ayers fella that Obama's known for all these years - is it.

n/t

by Jess81 2008-05-29 06:09PM | 0 recs
Saul Alinsky weeps.

by nightsweat 2008-05-29 06:10PM | 0 recs
WTF?

You're comparing protesters on each side of the street, democrats all, to a protest against the Iraq war? The silliness is all yours Alegre.

by lizardbox 2008-05-29 06:10PM | 0 recs
I would love

to go to DC. But... I am all the way over in the other Washington.   :)

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 06:12PM | 0 recs
Re: I would love

We'll miss you - but I'll hold up two signs in your honor :o)

by alegre 2008-05-29 06:14PM | 0 recs
Signs

One should say "Make check payable to:"

And the other should say "Mark Penn".

by reconad 2008-05-29 06:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

democracy!

or something...

by BlueGAinDC 2008-05-29 06:12PM | 0 recs
"domestic terrorists like that Ayers "

You mean "domestic terrorists" like those that Bill pardoned?  (Let's keep in mind that Mr. Ayers was not convicted.)

by reconad 2008-05-29 06:12PM | 0 recs
asdf

uprated for tr abuse.

by Jess81 2008-05-29 06:32PM | 0 recs
No to counting votes!

Counting votes and listening to voters in two of the biggest states of the country is the most undemocratic disgrace I've ever heard of.

No! No! No! No! No! No! No to counting the votes!

by catfish2 2008-05-29 06:14PM | 0 recs
Re: No to counting votes!

You sound like Harold Ickes.

Who does he work for, again?

by Jess81 2008-05-29 06:17PM | 0 recs
Re: No to counting votes!

You most certainly know that FL and MI don't pass the most basic standards under international rules for free and fair elections.  

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

And so it continues.  The little weenies don't even read the diary before gang raping the diarist.  Little weenies always work in gangs, in the dark, under cover of screen names.  God forbid anyone should actually see the little cowards - laughter would shake the planet.

by Tolstoy 2008-05-29 06:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

I don't think my HR needs an explanation.

by Jess81 2008-05-29 06:16PM | 0 recs
no explanation needed

that is a shameful comment and I am sure all of the Clinton supporters will denounce it as it reflects badly on their candidate.

by notme54 2008-05-29 06:18PM | 0 recs
Re: no explanation needed

Some gave it mojo, for shame.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 07:15PM | 0 recs
Re: no explanation needed

it's funny.  You have to live on another planet to not notice the gang over the top accusatory responses one can get here from outraged Barack supporters.  He didn't use any bad words, it's funny.  

by anna shane 2008-05-30 07:17AM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

so you approve of gangs of sock-puppets trolling and hi-jacking every diary?

by zerosumgame 2008-05-29 07:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

since you did not do the same to bob below then yes an explanation is called for

by zerosumgame 2008-05-29 08:00PM | 0 recs
We're gang-raping Alegre? Really?

Are we using NewHampster's Hillary fisting picture?

by bobdoleisevil 2008-05-29 06:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Gang rape?  Little weenies?  

You're revolting.

by Same As It Ever Was 2008-05-29 07:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

by Tolstoy 2008-05-29 06:14PM | 0 recs
These

"snark" comments are posted simply to hijack ANOTHER diary.

This is such bullshit.

kids... hm.

by kevin22262 2008-05-29 06:17PM | 0 recs
they're doing their part...

...to ensure that the netroots are taken seriously as a forum for political discourse.

by campskunk 2008-05-29 06:18PM | 0 recs
Stephanie Tubbs Jones

Stephanie Tubbs Jones?

HAHAHAHAHA   common!

The Stephanie Tubbs Jones that Hillary dropped like a ton of bricks?

That Stephanie Tubbs Jones?

The one who probably thought she was on the short list for VP?

oh my goodness, a woman who couldnt even list any of Hillary's accomplisments.

One more dig, after the Ohio win she was practicaly grabbing Hillary as she came on the stage so to keep the two in the same picture frame.

Right after Stephanie put the genius Kiki Mclean, another DINO.

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-05-29 06:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Plouffe's statement is so sexist.

I can't believe the sexism of that statement.

I am angry and in shock.

That statement was so sexist.

It's all sexism.

They are just picking on HIllary because she's a woman.

It's silly season.

This is ridiculous.

I'm so tired of this sexism.

by HillsMyGirl 2008-05-29 06:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

right on!!! I'm there in spirit....

gotta luv Stephanie Tubbs Johnson.....

by nikkid 2008-05-29 06:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Really what do you love about her?

I think she added zero to her campaign.

She isn't nearly as annoying as Kiki Mclean but thats because Kiki is paid to be that way.

by CrushTheGOP2008 2008-05-29 06:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

You love her so much that you don't know her last name.

by Jess81 2008-05-29 06:30PM | 0 recs
alegre - thank you for your commitment to HRC.

i am getting sick of what is going on here...

by canadian gal 2008-05-29 06:25PM | 0 recs
Re: alegre - thank you for your commitment to HRC.

Have you considered a writer's strike?

by reconad 2008-05-29 06:29PM | 0 recs
Re: alegre - thank you for your commitment to HRC.

Perhaps you could ask her to correct her misstatement of what Plouffe said.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:31PM | 0 recs
I'm with you

I'm witnessing what appears to be an out of control situation. I applaud Jerome for trying to rectify the problem, but clearly it's only made things alot worse. I'm asking myself what's the point. This is ridiculas.

by phoenixdreamz 2008-05-29 06:34PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm with you

I agree.

Any amount of money you want says that this is someone who was banned for tr'ing Alegra when she said that.

I'm not excusing trolling and spamming, but I am saying that when 20-odd posters were stripped of their rec'ing privileges, the fact that Alegre would from that point forward be unable to post anything without a million Is this snark?*s filling up her diaries was 100% predictable.

Occam's razor is the second most useful thing in the world.
by Jess81 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:26:51 PM EST

Jerome made a huge mistake doing that.

And of course Alegre came out the next day, said something to the effect of:
It wasnt me, but screw you guys anyways you got what you deserved.

And people wonder why.

Politics is never a one way street, only Republicans believe that and look where it got them!

by CrushTheGOP2008 on Thu May 29, 2008 at 10:31:07 PM EST

If you're an admin, complaints of the sort that happened after he did that are your friend.  The moment they stop it means that people no longer take the rules or administration of the site seriously.  Prepare for a million fake accounts and a million fake IPs.

by the way, people *please knock it off.

by Jess81 2008-05-29 06:41PM | 0 recs
Re: I'm with you

Whoa, my tags got messed up.

I ended it off with an invisible PLEASE KNOCK IT OFF.

by Jess81 2008-05-29 06:41PM | 0 recs
Re: alegre - thank you for your commitment to HRC.

I agree.  I'm sick of it too.

That Alegre completely and blatantly mischaracterizes a statement by the Obama campaign, bases a diary full of hate on it, and then doesn't correct the record when called on her lie, is absolutely inexcusable.

by mistersite 2008-05-29 07:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Thank you so much, alegre.

The Democratic Party seems intent on trampling over the rights of MI and FL voters for the sake of Barack Obama's candidacy.  This demonstrates a breathtaking lack of foresight, hypocrisy, and is nothing short of morally repugnant.

The DNC wants to ignore the safe harbor provision in its own rules and punish FL Democrats, who voted for a bill that protects citizens' voting rights in FL.  They gave New Hampshire a waiver to jump ahead while severely and arbitrarily penalizing Michigan...and now, they want to sacrifice these two states in the general, and for what?  To nominate Barack instead of Hillary?

I thought we were Democrats.  I thought we believed in the right to vote, in the voice of the popular will.  But apparently, the Democratic Party that I once knew is not the Democratic Party that exists today.

by hornplayer 2008-05-29 06:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Two points:

NH got a waiver because it is historically the first primary and it had to move up to preserve that status.

NH got a waiver thus its delegates will be incorporated into the total. If a state doesn't get a waiver, it suffers penalties with respect to its delegates. That's not different from nearly every other situation involving rule-breaking.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:33PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Yet it still violated DNC rules in the process of doing so...only further illustrating the point that roolz are roolz, except when they're not.

by hornplayer 2008-05-29 06:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

No, by getting the waiver, it did not violate the rules. The rules allow for waivers.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 07:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

I'm going to refer you to Big Tent Democrat over at TalkLeft to inform you as to why you are mistaken.

by hornplayer 2008-05-29 07:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

You misspelled "rules." That's so kewl!

by Black Anus 2008-05-29 07:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Thatz cuz everyone knowz that roolz are for boyz.

by CrazyDrumGuy 2008-05-29 07:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Well, they certainly aren't "rules," because they've been bent and broken in so many different directions that to use that term would simply be a misnomer.

by hornplayer 2008-05-29 07:16PM | 0 recs
Question:

The Clinton campaign says that counting the MI and FL votes is about voters rights.  However, they are attempting to unseat the delegates from a county in Texas because the county convention was held on the wrong day.  How is this not hypocritical?

http://startelegram.typepad.com/politex/ 2008/05/local-democrat.html

by mnl1012 2008-05-29 06:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Question:

That'd be Harris country I think?  They moved their primary from Saturday to Sunday "for logistical reasons".

The Clinton campaign was late in getting their act together and robocalled the entire list of delegates and alternates - Obama and Clinton supporters alike - telling them to "be sure to show up on Saturday", prompting about a 100 panicked phonecalls to my cell that week.

by Jess81 2008-05-29 06:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Question:

Collin county!

I was right, just... wrong.  Got the name wrong but the incident was the one I was thinking of.

It got crossed in the "single-syllable boy's names that have a double-consonant" area of my memory.

by Jess81 2008-05-29 06:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Question:

No, it is Collin County.  Harris County is Houston...my humble abode =).

by mnl1012 2008-05-29 06:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Question:

The hypocrisy of the Clinton campaign is painful. This story is diary-worthy. Mojo'd.

by CrazyDrumGuy 2008-05-29 07:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

I don't think I've seen a diary based on such a complete misunderstanding of a quote in quite some time.  The Ayers reference really classes up the joint, too.

by rfahey22 2008-05-29 06:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

And, to top it off, the diarist not only won't correct the misstatement but then calls people names when they point it out.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 06:34PM | 0 recs
Have you been sleeping for a week?


I don't think I've seen a diary based on such a complete misunderstanding of a quote in quite some time.

Really?

I've never been so repulsed about a candidate's actions as I've been as far as this whole RFK comment crap--over the past week--is concerned.

What the Obama campaign has done with this episode is about as shameless as it gets. And, it makes all the crap that came in the runup just before South Carolina appear like just that, too!

So, when you write: "I don't think I've seen a diary based on such a complete misunderstanding of a quote in quite some time," I just have to say to myself: WTF!?!?

Enough of this "lie 'til it becomes the truth' crap!

Enough of this feigned indignation!

The Obama campaign is really quite clueless about how over the line they've gone in the past few days. And, how their stated intentions for the next few days might very well--for the very first time--push sentiment in and around the Clinton campaign to the point where she might just actually consider running as an independent.

And, for the first time in my life, I might very well consider supporting that. And, in my life, as sure as I'm sitting here writing this right now, I never thought I'd be capable of writing these words--least of all this election cycle--in my life.

But, the Obama campaign crossed a line last week...almost a point of no return...and they continue to traverse that now. There are a lot of very pissed off Clinton supporters out here in the blogosphere. Things are out of hand in Obamaland.

Folks in that campaign better seriously stand the fuck down, and do so right now. Because there are a lot of very sane, dedicated Democrats who are of the opinion that something that was unthinkable just a few weeks ago--Hillary going off and running independently--doesn't sound quite as irrational or unthinkable as it did just 10 days ago.

And, as an extremely diehard Democrat, I've got to tell you, I never, ever thought I'd write these words in my lie. And, for the first time, I am, right here in this comment.

Again: Obama and his campaign have a choice here. And, it appears they've made those choices. So, they may end up reaping what they sow, as a result. And, this goes for that campaign in the blogosphere, too!

Deal with it now; or deal with it later.

The shameless behavior of the Obama campaign, especially with regard to Axelrod's actions late last week, are unacceptable to me on so many levels, I really don't know where to begin.

by bobswern 2008-05-29 08:47PM | 0 recs
Oh that Axelrod. . .

You mean this dasterdly act by Axelrod when he said, "I honestly can't believe that that is what she meant.  I don't think that she's hoping for some tragic catastrophic event to intervene."  Yep, really evil that Axelrod.  Or maybe when Obama said he took Senator Clinton at her word and explained how gaffes are played up by the media in this type of contest.  Truly despicable stuff.

by shalca 2008-05-29 09:03PM | 0 recs
I mean "the Axelrod" that emailed...

...his press advisory list with the Olbermann rant within just a couple hours after making that remark (that you're quoting here).

The rumor is that this episode may have seriously pushed Hillary and Bill to the point where they're talking--seriously and for the first time ever--about her running as an Independent in the GE.

I would think the odds of it going anywhere with them are about 1 in 100, but, just the fact that it's out as a "rumor" kind of speaks for itself.

The CW that I do know is that the Clinton campaign is now of the mindset that they'll take no prisoners and, frankly, I don't blame them. If I was in their position, I'd have to at least seriously consider all my options, with an Independent campaign being one of them.

And, quite frankly, through all of this--even this--it's a day at the beach compared to what's in store for Obama from the GOP and their 527's after Labor Day (if not before).

by bobswern 2008-05-29 09:37PM | 0 recs
Re: I mean "the Axelrod" that emailed...

I don't know Bob.  When Obama has been hit repeatedly with right wing talking points, ad hominem attacks, and implications of unfitness by his own party members (Clinton in particular), I'd have to say he's probably prepared for the republican onslaught.

by shalca 2008-05-29 10:03PM | 0 recs
Re: I mean "the Axelrod" that emailed...

Think she'll run indy?  Why not, worked for Leiberman.  Did wonders for his reputation too.

by fogiv 2008-05-29 10:11PM | 0 recs
Re: I mean "the Axelrod" that emailed...

For the record--for purposes of disclosure--you're exchanging comments with someone who's been a paid consultant for both Lieberman and Lamont camp in the past 28+ years.

That being said, I'm against Hillary running as an Independent. But, I am beginning to feel a LOT more empathy for her about considering it, nonetheless. (I support her campaign right now, btw.)

The Obama campaign--mostly their supporters but some of their key personnel--have been downright playing this VERY WRONG over the last few days! They're shooting themselves in the foot, and it's the major move on Axelrod's part late last week which precipitated this last round of critical--and totally wrong IMHO--maneuvering.

This is a very big mistake, coming at a very WRONG time as far as Obama's campaign is concerned.

He has this nomination...as long as his team doesn't continue to go over the line with their disaffecting actions. At some point, if they contninue along this path--and I'm talking about Obama's supporters too--the "equal and opposite reaction" from the Clintons WILL manifest itself in them taking the concept of an Indepedent candidacy more seriously with each passing day!

Get a freakin' clue, for the Party's sake! Please.

by bobswern 2008-05-30 07:05AM | 0 recs
I wish I lived nearer

as I live as far away as NY. However, my spirit will be at the rally for voting rights. Give 'em hell Alegre!

by DiamondJay 2008-05-29 06:40PM | 0 recs
This diary is

disingenuous at best.  I know that the diarist is perfectly capable of reading and understanding exactly what was meant about protests, etc. and has willfully and consciously misconstrued the entire thing.

The diarist should be ashamed of using such cheap and transparent tactics.  We are all intelligent adults and I would greatly appreciate being treated like one rather than a gullible fool.

by Sychotic1 2008-05-29 06:44PM | 0 recs
Re: This diary is

Glad to see that hide-rate abuse was uprated.

by ragekage 2008-05-29 06:48PM | 0 recs
Re: This diary is

Yeah, I commented on the diary...definitely ratings abuse...but what did I expect really?

by Sychotic1 2008-05-29 06:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Guys this latest statement by Plouffe is just another example of the double standards and sexism (yes sexism) that exists in this election process.  By claiming that our aim in rallying for voting rights is to create chaos around the decision process, he's trying to paint us "hysterical" or out of control.

Creating chaos = painting women as hysterical or out of control = sexism?

That logic train missed a few stops for me. Is there anywhere that he specifically said anything referring to women or even the Clinton campaign? Or, for that matter, did he ever use the word "hysterical", which you have in quotes?

You took a snippet of Plouffe's quote and others interpretations of it, why not quote the entire thing in the interest of clarity? Others have disagreed on your quote, so could you provide the source you used for it? It'd be much appreciated, especially since you said "apparently", which raises questions about whether or not this was actually what was said.

Both sides (yours and Plouffe's) seem to argue that no one should cause chaos, so what are you railing against?

And who is Abbie Hoffman? I found an article about someone who committed suicide when I was 9, so I'm a bit perplexed. He couldn't have been involved politically with Obama... Why bring up the name?

I honestly can't tell if you're randomly ranting against Obama or trying to raise a point (and what that point might be) with all the confusion.

by TCQuad 2008-05-29 06:44PM | 0 recs
Who is Abbie Hoffman?

I'm so freaking old. :-(

by Travis Stark 2008-05-29 06:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Who is Abbie Hoffman?

These days I wouldn't even make it if the call was, "Don't trust anyone over 50"!

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 07:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Who is Abbie Hoffman?

Well, considering grad school ages you in dog years, I'm like 64.

At least when I'm surrounded by undergrads, that's what it feels like...

by TCQuad 2008-05-29 07:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

With this diary you have finally abandoned all pretense of being a progressive.  Congratulations!

by apd 2008-05-29 06:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Why is the Clinton campaign arguing for anything short of a revote?  If you validate the Primary in any way as a basis for the outcome then you are validating voter suppression since the voters were told explicitly it was not a real election.  There is no ground for compromise here if the issue is voters rights.  Either the delegation be seated based on some calculation NOT determined by the false election or there has to be a total revote.  For Clinton to argue anything else is complete hypocrisy.  Obama's position is the one that defends voters rights - since a revote is impossible and the ones proposed violated the rights of voters who had crossed over in Michigan, then the only acceptable solution is to discount the false elections as the basis for delegate distribution.

by Piuma 2008-05-29 06:49PM | 0 recs
Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

How does one comment on this diary and not make an inapproriate TR'ed insult?  Anyone who appreciates this talking point(brought to you by Alegre) is mentally touched.

by venavena 2008-05-29 06:50PM | 0 recs
Are you done yet?

In the first 2 sentences you can't even be bothered to hide your obvious disgust AGAINST Obama for something he didn't even do.  

Are you done yet?  Becuase I just don't care anymore what you think.  Clinton is not going to win this primary.  So you can keep with your snide jabs and "vitrol" against the man who will become the nominee of the party.

Or you can stop.  This isn't even about clinton anymore.

Obama didn't say a damn thing about Clinton supporters.  But knowing that there will be Clinton supporters, adding his own supporters would just create a CONFLICT situation.  But oh no, you gotta get all pissed off and offended like he's trampling your rights.

But he's not.

So I have to ask:  Are you not done YET?  Do you really have nothing BETTER to do?  I don't like the whole "bot" names people keep calling each other but you are seriously gone aren't you? You can't even see reality from where you are.

I'm so tired of your BS.  Why are you still here?  

by DawnG 2008-05-29 06:50PM | 0 recs
Virtual recs for that brilliant analysis on Alegra
Thank you.
(I can't rate/Jerome hates me because I support Obama)
by TheFullBerry 2008-05-29 08:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Alegre, you've become a troll. I saw the warning signs, but really... I don't know how you imagine you'll be relevant to anyone after the primary seaso is done. Honestly, watching what you've posted, even if you switched over to a pro-Obama slant, I don't want you on our team. We've got real, honest-to-God reasonable Clinton supporters who don't engage in intellectual dishonesty that I'd be proud to work with- and there's plenty of 'em!- unfortunately, you don't fit that bill.

by ragekage 2008-05-29 06:50PM | 0 recs
Alegra posted these same kinds of lies, smears,
slander and libel at Daily Kos.
It's why she slinked out the back door in disgrace.
Every diary she wrote attracted this kind of numbers in response. Because everyone on kos asked her why she was spamming, lying and trolling every night. She cried and screamed, and then was given the heave ho.
by TheFullBerry 2008-05-29 08:08PM | 0 recs
You should be happy.

Sen. Obama has asked his own supporters not to go there. There is no question in my own mind that no good would have come of Clinton and Obama supporters demonstrating at this event at the same time, so I'm quite happy that my candidate saw that and has at least attempted to keep down the chaos.

Clinton supporters should do whatever they're going to do. It can be judged later how to characterize events.

by Travis Stark 2008-05-29 06:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Horse-pucky?  What exactly is being protested and who is the intended audience of the protest, you know, that will be influenced by the huge, energetic turn-out and inspirational speeches?  It can't be the voters, most of them have had their say, the media are just going to gleefully suck it up as more high-noon drama, as expected, and the Clinton campaign has clearly distanced themselves from the whole affair while applauding the principle.

Is this intended to sway the superdelegates?  Or is it a protest against them, given the membership of the RBC this seems a pertinent question?  If both, I think you may be missing the point.

by Shaun Appleby 2008-05-29 06:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Obama campaign has requested that their supporters not protest the meeting. They have not addressed Clinton's supporters let alone accused them of anything. To read into it like that is completely nuts.

by grasshopper 2008-05-29 06:59PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Please edit your diary to correct your mischaracterization of Axelrod's statement.  It is very misleading and inconsistent with fair and honest discourse.  If I had not read further down, I would have left reading your diary believing your characterization of what Axelrod had said.  In essence, this diary is spreading a lie about the Obama campaign, a lie that may be used by some people to further antagonize Clinton supporters against Obama and the democratic party.  It is not right and it is disrespectful to your fellow democrats.  

by ProfessorReo 2008-05-29 07:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

lol.  Alegre making a fact-based correction?

That's snark, right?

by thereisnospoon 2008-05-29 07:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

those 'is this snark' comments are getting old fast. super fast.

Hope some one takes pics of the rally.

by alyssa chaos 2008-05-29 07:07PM | 0 recs
Whats next?

"Hillary wants protesters outside of Obamas house"

That is something we heard in the HBO movie Recount, and it was true...

But the actual line is, "Karl want's protestors outside of Gore's house"

It's fake.

It's going to look rediculas.

And it will be a sad day in America.

Hillary signed a God Dammed M F'n Pledge!

She is a back stabbing turn coat.

For her to bus in fake protestors is vitrually criminal and right out of Rove's playbook.

Fake  Fake  Fake  Fake  Fake  Fake  Fake  Fake!

Go home loser!  

by Silence Do Good 2008-05-29 07:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Finally entered the silly season?

Nah, she's suburbanite soccer mom. Somehow working paycheck to paycheck with that Chevy Tahoe and McMansion in Georgetown.

by ragekage 2008-05-29 07:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Finally entered the silly season?

Ragekage, I like you. Don't stoop to her level  of that. It just feeds the fires that feed her and the people that keep her on top of the rec list. I'm not going to try to tell you how you should feel about people on this blog, but sometimes you win when you refuse to fight on their terms.

by Djo Dos 2008-05-29 07:34PM | 0 recs
Re: Finally entered the silly season?

Oh, no, I totally agree with you. I'm writing a diary right now on this subject, about not feeding the trolls, and to ignore 'em. You're absolutely right- they hate being ignored more than anything.

by ragekage 2008-05-29 07:38PM | 0 recs
Creepy.

Commenting on a blogger's personal life is just creepy.

by psychodrew 2008-05-29 07:54PM | 0 recs
Re: Creepy.

It's just entirely guesswork. Tahoes are popular SUVs, but she's admitted the rest of the information.

It's not like I have access to a super secret Obama KH-12 Big Bird surveillance satellite in a polar orbit 500 miles over the earth, which passes over the DC metro area every ninety minutes or so-

Uhh, wait. Nevermind. Ignore that. (whistles innocently)

by ragekage 2008-05-29 08:05PM | 0 recs
Dude!

And I thought I was a stalker. I got no spy satellite (yet).

by Black Anus 2008-05-29 08:10PM | 0 recs
He was speaking to his own supporters

I'm sure you knew that, but congrats on fueling up another pseudo controversy.

NEXT!

by highgrade 2008-05-29 07:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Why hasn't the diarist corrected or deleted this diary - after it's been made abundantly clear that it completely misrepresented what Plouffe said?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 07:19PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

lol, are you kidding.  We're talking about Alegre here...

by thereisnospoon 2008-05-29 07:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Not so fast.  It's unclear as to whether Plouffe included the pro-Clinton protesters as part of his "chaos" comments or not.  

by MMR2 2008-05-29 08:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

So what if he doesn't want Obama's people there to protest. Plouffes just saying that he thinks they've found a reasonable compromise and that there's no reason for Obama supporters to clash with Clinton supporters at the rally. If you want to go out and have a protest, that's fine you're more than welcome and that's nothing that creates an atmosphere of chaos. Two opposing parties that are highly charged in their causes, one side trying to look after voters they feel are being disenfranchised, another side that believes elections that would never pass international standards shouldn't be fully counted, would create an atmosphere of chaos. If anything, Plouffe was trying to create a peaceful atmosphere for you to protest.

by Djo Dos 2008-05-29 07:23PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos? (Updated -

The update is so absurd.

One, why no correction of what Plouffe actually said if the diarist was taking time to issue an update?

Two, who cares if someone posted it on the Obama site.  Anyone can do that, unlike the heavily moderated Clinton site.

Three, the list of participants for the west coast event seems to me a big, how can I put it, silly. But maybe what we need right now are people doing pop-metaphysics and comedians.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 07:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos? (Updated -

The update is so absurd.

One, why no correction of what Plouffe actually said if the diarist was taking time to issue an update?

Two, who cares if someone posted it on the Obama site.  Anyone can do that, unlike the heavily moderated Clinton site.

Three, the list of participants for the west coast event seems to me a bit, how can I put it, silly. But maybe what we need right now are people doing pop-metaphysics and comedians.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 07:25PM | 0 recs
Very disingenuous diary.

Here's the quote in context.

Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said his side was hoping to avoid a "scene."

"Obviously, with the click of a mouse it would be pretty easy for us in the mid-Atlantic to get thousands of people there, but we don't think it's a helpful dynamic to create chaos and in the interest of party unity, we're encouraging our supporters not to protest," he said.

Obviously, he's talking about the potential for Obama supporters creating chaos.

He's right of course. One email and there would be thousands of Obama supporters there, but instead he is showing respect for the tough job of the committee and asking his supporters not to go there unless they have tickets.

by Travis Stark 2008-05-29 07:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos? (Updated -

What's sad is that this won't help Clinton's case to the committee at all, but only delays the party's ability to come together to beat McCain.  

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 07:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos? (Updated -

He is right, the rally can become a circus if the rally was conducted by his supporter.

I'll be waiting to see if he abandon his stand on the rally and let them become a circus at the convention in Denver.

by JoeySky18 2008-05-29 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos? (Updated -

It's very telling that they can't get a single elected official at the west coast event.  I think that Al of The Field is right about a massive movement of CA superdelegates to Obama.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 07:31PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos? (Updated -

and when it happens, they'll call it a superdelegate misogynistic gangrape of the better candidate because she's female.

And then they'll tout Obama's increasing weakness among the white women they've targeted with that despicable shit.

They're very predictable.

by thereisnospoon 2008-05-29 07:34PM | 0 recs
Usually, I make an apropos comment...

...based on the content of the diary.  Usually, it is a serious question about your argument.  Usually, it goes unanswered.

Tonight is different.  Tonight, I simply, plainly, and boldly call you a liar for this trolling diary.  Someday, you will look back on this diary and be ashamed of yourself, and wish you could take it back - but you won't be able to.

This is shameful.  If you had the slightest modicum of integrity, you would correct the record and apologize for your lie.

by mistersite 2008-05-29 07:33PM | 0 recs
Alegre isn't a Troll, she's a Parrot

It would be interesting to hear her honest opinions, but that will have to come later.

She unapologetically Parrots a set of Talking Points from Clinton Central, so any overall culpability for this Pure Smoke approach has to go back to the campaign.

It is an interesting window into what the top of the Clinton campaign is pushing.  And have no doubt, on a recent concall Sen. Clinton recognized Alegre personally and explicity approves of everything she writes.

Can't really blame a Parrot.  Have to blame the person who teaches it to speak.

-chris

by chrisblask 2008-05-29 07:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Usually, I make an apropos comment...

Justify your TR, kevin22262, or retract it.

by mistersite 2008-05-29 07:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Usually, I make an apropos comment...

You too, campskunk.  Explain or retract your TR.

by mistersite 2008-05-29 07:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Usually, I make an apropos comment...

You too, MMR2.

I notice a lot of the raters aren't all that keen on explaining their TRs.  Could that be because they're afraid to try to justify them?

by mistersite 2008-05-29 08:10PM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest =

Too funny those losers.  They are just desperately trying every effort not to sway the Rules Committee to accept the votes.  After all, especially after the most recent coverage of his even very first campaign, Obama is nothing but Bull and fraud.  His entire M O is to NOT COUNT VOTES whenery possible.

You're going down Obama.  This isn't Chicago.

by environmentally blue 2008-05-29 07:34PM | 0 recs
Are you still not drinking?

C'mon, Alegre!  You used to be so much fun!

You just need a little conga line time and you'll be able to see things more clearly. Stay right there, I'll go get you a virtual Margarita...

by chrisblask 2008-05-29 07:34PM | 0 recs
(Updated - West Coast Event!)

Great news Alegre on the West Coast event.  

by LindaSFNM 2008-05-29 07:38PM | 0 recs
Re: (Updated - West Coast Event!)

What an event! Not a single elected official, but plenty of comedians at a comedy club.  

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 07:56PM | 0 recs
Is This Snark?

Serious question.

by turtlescrubber 2008-05-29 07:46PM | 0 recs
We've seen these...

"peaceful" protests before.

election workers riot

by Tatan 2008-05-29 07:51PM | 0 recs
Only these fine folks

were agitating to STOP THE COUNTING OF VOTES!

Or perhaps this is too fine a point for you to process.

by Radiowalla 2008-05-29 08:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Only these fine folks

They're all trying to get a leg up for their candidate. If Hillary and her supporters had any interest in preserving the integrity of the votes, where was the outrage before March?

by Tatan 2008-05-29 08:38PM | 0 recs
Why do Obama supporters

hate democracy?

***A

by adrienne4dean 2008-05-29 08:02PM | 0 recs
Suggestion

There should be an option to "wreck" a diary, a kind of anti-rec that would offset the effects of certain bloggers' delusional posses pushing their bilge to the top of the list. Because the above offering is industrial strength weaksauce, even by alegre standards.

by differance 2008-05-29 08:07PM | 0 recs
mojo for good suggestion

as well as Derrida referance.

by JJE 2008-05-29 08:09PM | 0 recs
Wow, I just asked the question

about why Obama supporters hate democracy, and one of them obliged me with a perfect example.  

Tell me, would you like for there to be an anti-vote to undo the votes cast in an election?

Oh, right, I guess you got that big time by denying MI & FL voters the right to have their votes count.

You must feel proud.

***A

by adrienne4dean 2008-05-29 08:12PM | 0 recs
moved the above to main thread n/t

by adrienne4dean 2008-05-29 08:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Wow, I just asked the question

You know that's simplistic and off-base.

by politicsmatters 2008-05-29 08:18PM | 0 recs
Are you

this melodramatic in real life?

Just curious, because you somehow managed to conflate my disdain of "recommended" propaganda pieces with hatred of democracy itself.

If I said Hillary was wearing an ugly pantsuit today, would you spontaneously combust in your computer chair?

by differance 2008-05-29 08:34PM | 0 recs
Tell me...

is troll rating "undemocratic" as well?

Because the suggestion was, essentially, that one should be able to TR a diary as well as mojo it.  If it ain't undemocratic in the comments section, it ain't undemocratic for the diaries themselves.

And incidentally, it's a good idea...a nice way to call the admins' attention to trollish diaries so that their authors can be dealt with.

by Elsinora 2008-05-29 08:54PM | 0 recs
Listen Up !!!!! To More Inetllectual Dishonesty

Ugh!

Do you bother anymore?  I mean it is sad.

I am actually starting to hope that you are a paid blogger because if you are not, I wish you a soft landing because this summer and November are going to suck hard for you.

The real world can see facts.  The real world can see the landscape.  The real world is not lining up anywhere near where you think or hope it is going to.  Sorry to be so blunt but you are doing both Clinton and the democratic party a disservice with these garbage diaries of yours.

You are like Dr Jekly and Mr Hyde.  Tow diaries a day.  One a slightly creepy Hillary advocacy diary and the next an extremely intellectually dishonest 'Obama is the devil and wants to eat your children diary - and by the way Hillary is the saint to save us all from bunions'.

There is only one reason why Clinton is pushing every disingenuous argument there is - she knows she can win.  O Noes!!!! I admitted she could win!  But she also knows Obama will win.  

This year is the democrats and this is Clintons shot.  If she doesnt get the nom now she will never have another shot.  So shes going all in.

While I disagree with many of her campaigning actions, this is politics after all and at this time it doesnt really matter.  So the choice is hers but, like you, shes not going to get what she wants and there may be a steep price to pay depending on how far she goes.  Again, thats not a threat, just politics - the loser pays, its the way of the world.  Especially if the loser acts like a child in defeat.

So how is your diary on Obamas new pastor coming along?  Im sure Ill see it on the rec list soon.

by pattonbt 2008-05-29 08:10PM | 0 recs
Way to go!

Nice rabble rousing.  I particularly like the gratuitous use of Ayers and Sexism.  Good luck with the peaceful demonstration of protest.

by thepuppethead 2008-05-29 08:10PM | 0 recs
Shhhhhh....

They're pretending they care about voting rights now.

by JJE 2008-05-29 08:12PM | 0 recs
Wow, I just asked the question

about why Obama supporters hate democracy, and one of them obliged me with a perfect example.  

To the suggestion above, would you like for there to be an anti-vote to undo the votes cast in an election?

Oh, right, I guess you got that big time by denying MI & FL voters the right to have their votes count.

You must feel proud.

***A

by adrienne4dean 2008-05-29 08:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Wow, I just asked the question

Count the vote....when you claim it never mattered in the first place, agreed to the rules and only want it to count when it becomes advantageous for you to say and do so.

Sounds like you're the one that hates democracy, trying to bend it and twist it into something else.

I hope you feel proud.

by Massadonious 2008-05-29 09:39PM | 0 recs
Could I have an answer to my questions, please?

I've been asking you for going on seven days now, and I have yet to get so much as a TR from you, let alone a reply.  Please, just answer the questions--don't make me ask again.

To remind you, the questions are:

You have said in your diaries repeatedly that halving Michigan's delegate total would be unfair to your family in Michigan because their votes would only count half as much.  Yet, with the delegate total halved, one Michigan voter's vote would still count for 1/9361 of a delegate...whereas my vote in Wisconsin only counted for 1/15,044 of a delegate.

1. How is that at all unfair to your family in Michigan?
2. When are you going to start crusading on behalf of us poor, disenfranchised Wisconsinites?

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/23/1944 11/195#readmore

by Elsinora 2008-05-29 08:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Could I have an answer to my questions,

Keep up the good fight for all of us Wisconsinites.

by rfahey22 2008-05-29 08:48PM | 0 recs
If only the west coast event were in

No. California, I'd surely be there.
I did send a contribution today to WomenCountPac, though.

Thanks, Alegre, for your continued courage in the face of fire.

by Radiowalla 2008-05-29 08:28PM | 0 recs
UPDATE

Apparently, one of his senior campaign managers (David Plouffe) told reporters during a recent presser that he didn't "think its a helpful dynamic to create chaos" at this meeting.

You forgot the link to that quote, here it is:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080529/ap_o n_el_pr/democrats_protest

Oh and it went like this,

"Obviously, with the click of a mouse it would be pretty easy for us in the mid-Atlantic to get thousands of people there, but we don't think it's a helpful dynamic to create chaos and in the interest of party unity, we're encouraging our supporters not to protest."

by asherrem 2008-05-29 08:44PM | 0 recs
Reported. . .

Reported to the admins of this site for creating a diary of blatant lies and propoganda in order to sow discord in the democratic party, which this site was made to support.

by shalca 2008-05-29 09:17PM | 0 recs
WOW! One of your BEST yet--

Alegre. HOW do you DO IT?

Horse-pucky! Boyz! Sexism! Abbie Hoffman! That Ayers fella!

And the zinger--

New voters!

Oh SNAP!

WOW! I've been waiting for HOURS waiting to read your latest DIARY and I was not DISAPPOINTED.

Reading your WORDS I am INSPIRED to work even HARDER.

THANK YOU from the bottom of my HEART. The campaign is LUCKY to have you!

by cultural worker 2008-05-29 09:35PM | 0 recs
Peaceful Protest = DEMOCRACY!

Thanks for the diary, Alegre. My wife will be there!

The forecast calls for rain so be sure to bring an umbrella. How about getting a white one at a Dollar store and use indelible marker to write:

WE'LL REMEMBER
IN NOVEMBER!

EVERY! VOTE COUNTS!

OMG! Report this to the admins! Democrats are actually involved in democracy! Alert the media! ;)

by Nobama 2008-05-29 09:37PM | 0 recs
F U you piece of Shit!

Eat yourself and die!

by Silence Do Good 2008-05-30 03:36AM | 0 recs
I hope when this is all over..

you'll go back to Hillaryis44 with your intellectual dishonesty, blatant lies and smears, where people are dumb enough to actually believe it.

Meanwhile, the rest of us at MyDD will help restore what this site should stand for: Electing Democrats and progressives, instead of tearing them down like a Republican.

by Massadonious 2008-05-29 10:07PM | 0 recs
Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

I question whether the word "protest" is even appropriate.  It's not as though the Rules and Bylaws Committee of the Democratic party is the East German regime.  People can register their opinions and preferences.  At the end of the day, though, whatever the RBC decides, all you'll have is a decision you support or thought was off the mark.  One can't seriously argue that this is a corrupt process, or one which lacks transparency, etc.  

by IncognitoErgoSum 2008-05-29 10:14PM | 0 recs
Sexism towards Hillary

Here's an excellent article by Booman,  an Obama supporter, nevertheless agrees with many here who feel that Hillary has been the victim of sexism. It's a good read that provides some common ground on which to build an anti-McCain coalition from our dysfunctional democratic family.

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2008/ 5/30/2270/24730

by obsessed 2008-05-30 02:24AM | 0 recs
sexism

Thank you for posting that, obsessed.  Here's how it ends:

/I am happy about Barack Obama winning this nomination because I identify with him as someone that screwed around a little too much in my teenage and young adult years but that went on to get a good education and work as a community organizer in the inner city. I like his political style and I like his policies. I prefer his ideology to that of the Clintons, both Hillary and Bill. I support him for these reasons and not because he is a man. And, had Obama lost, I would have felt like the party was dissing progressives and activists and community organizers in favor of the powers-that-be that have not served this country well over the last eight years. But, as a man, I would not have felt dissed. Hillary Clinton deserves support from people for reasons other than her gender. But her failure is not a failure for her gender. Her loss is not really your loss. We didn't vote and organize against her because of her gender. In some ways, we did those things in spite of her gender. Please do not feel disrespected as a woman because we did not pick a woman this time to be our nominee.

It's an election...someone wins and someone loses. Barack Obama will be a tremendous advocate for women. /

by politicsmatters 2008-05-30 04:12AM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos? (Updated -

Alegre,

Within 5 minutes of you posting this diary, I explained that you had misrepresenting what Obama campaign manager David Plouffe said.

He did NOT call the Clinton-organized protests planned "chaos." He said that the Obama campaign was not organizing counter-protests because that would set up a chaotic scene of different groups of Democrats shouting at each other.

Obviously such a scene would do not good for the Democratic party. It would inflame passions among Democrats and would make independents question whether the party was where they would want to put their support.  And so the Obama campaign is not organizing those counter-protests but is instead asking people to participate in voter registration efforts that day.

Given that I pointed this out five minutes after you posted, I cannot understand why you did not correct the diary.  Why would you want to promulgate falsehoods?  How can that possibly help your candidate and our party?

by politicsmatters 2008-05-30 04:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Peaceful Protest = Creating Chaos?

Obama is trying to have it both ways. What a surprise.

by grlpatriot 2008-05-30 06:57AM | 0 recs

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