Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

I was at my desk in DC the morning of 9/11 - watched the Pentagon burn from the rooftop of our building - labored over whether hubby and I should pack up the car and get us and our infant daughter out of the city.  I also watched as our city turned into a ghost town at night for the next 7 or 8 months, got used to the sound of F-16s criss-crossing our skies at regular intervals, and listened as the news readers explained how to tape up a safe room and put together grab and go bags.  My friends who worked in the Pentagon were lucky that day - they worked in another corner of the building.  But I'll never forget the pregnant wife of a guy named Eddie who sat vigil on a hillside near the smoldering corner that did get hit.  She refused to leave until he was found (hopefully alive) and the news talked with her one evening.  My heart ached for her and her 3 kids.  Thousands of families went through what she endured and the Jersey Girls made news when they fought for an honest investigation into what happened that day.

Kristen Breitweiser is one of those women.  She and her friends used their loss and grief - channeled into a force for the truth and spent more time here in DC than many members of Congress.  They earned the respect of a lot of us and when one of them has something to say - I listen.

Well Ms. Breitweiser posted something in the Huffington Post today that caught my attention.  She was surprised to hear that Obama and Rice have something in common.  Neither thinks anyone could have predicted what happened on 9/11.  Take a look...

Kristen Breitweiser

9/11: Where Barack Obama and Condi Rice Sound Alarmingly Alike

Barack Obama appeared on MSNBC's Hardball last night and was asked about the way he would handle the 3 a.m. phone call.

The transcript:

MATTHEWS: Let me give you a scene that may face you in the next year or two, where the national security adviser calls you at 3:00 in the morning and tells that you a couple of jet -- commercial jets have been hijacked. And they believe it is al Qaeda. And, as we know, al Qaeda always tries a second time. They tried for the World Trade Center after '93. They came back in '01.

They're heading for the Capitol. What do you do?

OBAMA: Well, look, I am hesitant to engage in hypotheticals like that, because...

MATTHEWS: But it has been predictable.

OBAMA: Oh, well, the--I don't think anybody predicted 9/11. And, so, we don't know what kinds of circumstances are going to come up.

Yup. That's right, Barack Obama glibly stated that he didn't "think anybody predicted 9/11."

Perhaps Obama might better strengthen his image of having a handle on national security issues by not sounding so much like the disgraceful, incompetent former Bush Administration National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice.

Recall that Ms. Rice stated that "I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center, take another one and slam it into the Pentagon; that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile."

I am not even going to bother listing the hundreds of cites/articles/studies/reports/military exercises, drills/testimonials/PDB's/SEIB's or even television shows that disprove Rice's statement. I will just mention my personal favorite -- the August 6, 2001 Presidential Daily Briefing titled, "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in the U.S."

How could Obama have such a poor understanding of the 9/11 attacks and their subsequent impact on the US intelligence community? Has Obama even read the 9/11 Commission's Final Report that (even in its whitewash form) calls Rice to task for her "misleading" statement about the predictability of 9/11-style attacks? Or sets forth recommendations for intelligence community reforms?

One of the reasons I support Hillary Clinton over Barack Obama is because of the enormous help Senator Clinton gave to the 9/11 families who were fighting to create a 9/11 Commission.

My experience in Washington showed me that there were very few people who understood what needed to be done and even fewer people who had the courage, stamina, and ability to get those things done.

Hillary Clinton was one of those people. And without fail, anytime we needed help -- whether that was achieving bi-partisan consensus, strong-arming the White House and/or House Republicans, or cajoling reluctant and recalcitrant Democrats like Lieberman, Senator Clinton always took the call and helped solve the problem.

I might add that for someone whose husband, former President Bill Clinton, was a point of investigation for the 9/11 Commission, it certainly did not play in Senator Clinton's favor to have something like the 9/11 Commission impaneled. Yet, Senator Clinton was one of our biggest, fiercest, and most vocal advocates for the creation of a 9/11 Commission.

But as a 9/11 widow who, along with other 9/11 families, fought very hard to learn lessons from 9/11 to not only make our nation safer but also to hold people like Condoleezza Rice accountable, it is wholly unacceptable for any presidential candidate to get such a simple, historical fact about national security -- that the 9/11 attacks were predictable -- so totally wrong.

(Emphasis added)

Now I've lived in the DC area for nearly 24 years and this is the only time we've been hit like this - hopefully the last.  On the one hand you realize this is probably one of the most protected cities in the country (well aside from the port up there in Baltimore but I won't go into that now (Hillary did work with a group to address port safety btw)), but on the other you kind of have this nagging worry at the back of your head that you live in a city with one big-ass bulls-eye over it.

I'm glad the Jersey girls demanded some answers.  I'd like to think that some of the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission report - as watered down as that report may be - have been implemented.

Going forward, I want someone to take over from Bush's miserable failure of a watch and be ready to deal with whatever comes her way.  Someone who understands that yes - the tragic events of 9/11 were predictable and could have been prevented if only Bush and company had been paying attention!

Now I know we can't change history and undo what the terrorists did to Kristen's husband and thousands of other innocent people that day - but we can sure as hell elect someone who knows what they're doing and can think on her feet like no one else.

Tags: 2008 elections, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Jersey Girls, Kristen Breitweiser, National Security, president (all tags)

Comments

230 Comments

How Can Anyone Not Think This Was Predictable?

Especially a Democrat?

by alegre 2008-04-04 07:40PM | 0 recs
This Was Posted Above Her HuffPo Piece

Blackwater's Iraq Contract Renewed Despite Investigations.

Wowzer.

by alegre 2008-04-04 07:44PM | 0 recs
I saw that on the news and thought

Obama must be glad he doesn't have to make the decision himself.  He hates decisions.

by NewHampster 2008-04-04 07:45PM | 0 recs
Re: I saw that on the news and thought

Boy, I'll say! Voting "PRESENT" almost  130 times when he served in the Illinois Senate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/pol itics/20obama.html

by KnowVox 2008-04-04 07:48PM | 0 recs
Obviously Obama is a godsend for the GOP

There is a lot that could have happened then that has not gotten honestly investigated. I think that is what the GOP is terrified of and I think that Obama's pledge to not demonize them was a coded pledge that as Commander in Chief, he would offer them an amnesty of some kind if there was any evidence that came out.

That was improper and that was when I made my first tentative decision to not support Obama under any conditions. He made that pledge a long time ago, in 2006.

I think it was a mistake for Ford to pardon Nixon just as I think it would be a mistake of Obama to pardon in advance any lawbreakers from the 9-11 era or any of the other Bushwhackings.

A number of countries in Latin America have offered these amnesties to criminals from their past and it prevents the situation from ever being settled and it tortures the victims.

There were a lot of connections between the Bush's and the BinLaden's.

Bush's father was at a business meeting with OBL's brother, in Washington, as the attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon were happening.

Read this..

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheori es/index.html

by architek 2008-04-04 08:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Obviously Obama is a godsend for the GOP

I'm sure Hillary, who supported Bush on Iraq against the anti-war activists, is just chomping at the bit to uncover the Truth about 9-11.

by animated 2008-04-04 08:27PM | 0 recs
Did you read the whole diary?

I might add that for someone whose husband, former President Bill Clinton, was a point of investigation for the 9/11 Commission, it certainly did not play in Senator Clinton's favor to have something like the 9/11 Commission impaneled. Yet, Senator Clinton was one of our biggest, fiercest, and most vocal advocates for the creation of a 9/11 Commission.

Just sayin'...

by Swedie 2008-04-05 12:48AM | 0 recs
The word and idea of a 'blue ribbon commission'

..is an inside joke in Washington

for a 'commission' of high level and LOYAL people who are close to those involved in something who would investigate their own friends and clear their own clique of any wrongdoing.

Typically it is composed of people who have been 'vetted' NOT for their ability on a subject, but for their loyalty to the top leadership people who are being investigated. Often they themselves have their hands dirty in something, but the idiotic press and public is not aware of that.

I repeat, these "blue ribbon commission" is a code word for an inside joke.

Its sort of like the word "magnanimous" in how it is deliberately ironic.

by architek 2008-04-05 06:15AM | 0 recs
ribbon commission

how does that answer Obama's lack of basic information?  I have no idea what he's thinking, the whole point of the investigation was that it was predictable and was predicted.  What worries me most about his coverage is the Iraq exit plan. He not only plans to keep private mercenaries, he plans to keep Bush's no-bid contracts in place, which will make any diplomacy dead in the water. I fear he thinks he's great enough to broker peace there and he wants to try with the lives of our troops. Hillary knows it's well and truly lost, and we need to get everyone out.  But Barack's judgment that tells him 9/11 wasn't predictable also tells him Bush's plan to stabilize Iraq and keep a presence there could work, with the right president?  I don't feel like paying for his foolish delusions.  

by anna shane 2008-04-05 07:31AM | 0 recs
Re: I saw that on the news and thought

He DOES seem to stumble a bit if it's not scripted, doesn't he?  I mean he knew he'd get tought questions and yet he still dropped the ball on that question.

You might be able to challenge the premise of a question during an interview, but that kind of response won't fly whent hat phone rings in the middle of the night.

by alegre 2008-04-04 07:49PM | 0 recs
Re: I saw that on the news and thought

Funny how Obama has more than held his own against Clinton in all those unscripted debates, especially the recent ones.

by animated 2008-04-04 08:37PM | 0 recs
Re: I saw that on the news and thought
He was awful on that question. After the part quoted, he went on about his superior judgement and getting good intelligence and lots of opinions. All this when hijackers were coming. Really bad. It reminded me of Bush sitting in that classroom reading My Pet Goat. "What will I do now? I must find someone to ask."
Maybe he should have said that he would call Hillary.
by georgiast 2008-04-04 09:23PM | 0 recs
Re: I saw that on the news and thought

I can take a lot of invective and mockery directed at Obama, but come on.

COME ON.

"My pet goat?" You can complain about Obama till the cows (or goats) come home, but I can not believe anyone here thinks Obama, with his degrees, teaching experience and clear intellegence (even if you don't like what he does with it) is like Bush? Is like "My Pet Goat" Bush?

And after all these months of complaining that Obama was nothing but "words" now you're going to cheep about him being bad at words?

Regardless, hyperbole is one thing, but you might as well call him Hitler if you're going to go over the top.

by Lettuce 2008-04-05 09:07AM | 0 recs
We need another "Godwin's law"

that says the discussion is officially in the toilet when someone compares their Democratic opponent to George W. Bush.

by Alice in Florida 2008-04-05 02:18PM | 0 recs
Re: We need another "Godwin's law"

It's like the Saturday Night Live sketch, that tries to paint Obama into a "bimbo." We've had bimbo for 8 years. We know what it looks like. It's not a college professor (or sr. lecturer if you're on the nitpick patrol).

Seriously though, this whole thing has officially jumped the shark for me. The site has become a group of pre-schoolers tattling on one-another for any percieved slight. There are real issues at play, certainly plenty to write about. But this "he-whined, she-whined" BS is done for me.

I'm going over to TPM Cafe to rant about the John Yoo memo. Who's with me?

by Lettuce 2008-04-05 02:38PM | 0 recs
Re: I saw that on the news and thought

Oh the horrors, Obama mis spoke. Perhaps he was ducking sniper fire.

by lion king 2008-04-04 09:45PM | 0 recs
Mark Penn's company worked for Blackwater

by highgrade 2008-04-04 10:30PM | 0 recs
Disgusting -

but predictable.  The part of personal respnsibility rides again.

by Xanthe 2008-04-05 05:43AM | 0 recs
Re: How Can Anyone Not Think This Was Predictable?

I think many knew we were targeted, I just don't think people knew of the scale.

by RJEvans 2008-04-04 07:45PM | 0 recs
Re: How Can Anyone Not Think This Was Predictable?

How do you think Lee Hamilton's endorsement fits into this?

by mady 2008-04-04 09:05PM | 0 recs
Re: How Can Anyone Not Think This Was Predictable?

Your last diary was better, you should stick to the positive, it's really your strong suit.

by Drewid 2008-04-04 09:09PM | 0 recs
Wow

What a lot of desperate, grabbing-at-straws to attack Obama in the comments for this silly diary.

It's sad to see so much venom and bitterness from good folks who are obviously very disappointed that this nomination isn't going to turn out the way they expected.

As hubby Bill used to say, "I feel your pain".

by toyomama 2008-04-04 11:11PM | 0 recs
Re: How Can Anyone Not Think This Was Predictable?

Here's the video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUFnm9YLi 0k&feature=related

When I saw this on Hardball my first reaction was "did he really just say that?" & then getting absolutely no followup from Mathews... well, I just couldn't believe it.

by goldilocks 2008-04-05 03:46AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Wow... Barack and Condi DO sound remarkably alike. S-C-A-R-Y!

Thanks for the heads up and a great diary!

by KnowVox 2008-04-04 07:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Yeah - who knew the guy who got famous because of an anti-war speech over 5 years ago would sound just like Rice when he's put on the spot like that?

by alegre 2008-04-04 07:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

What point are you trying to prove exactly? Was Obama incorrect in saying that it's pointless to address hypotheticals because we don't know what form the next attack will take?

by animated 2008-04-04 08:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Umm... addressing hypotheticals are what leaders do.  

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst.

That aside... he screwed up when he claimed no one could have known we'd be attacked like that.  He echoed the very person we've been attacking for that stupid claim for nearly 7 years now.

by alegre 2008-04-04 08:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Surely no leader should be expected to address exactly what they would do in some fantasy terrorist attack scenario Chris Matthews cooked up. Obama gave exactly the right answer. I'd imagine Clinton would have done the same, and I bet you would have applauded her for doing so.

by animated 2008-04-04 09:00PM | 0 recs
Good Lord.

This isn't fantasy. Anyone running for president who doesn't have a clear idea of what to do in that case, right now, no diddling about, isn't ready for the job. Who do you call? Where do you go? Do you call the airforce to shoot the planes down or not? Do you put off making a decision until it is too late?

by georgiast 2008-04-04 09:27PM | 0 recs
Really? Hmmm....

I guess Hillary isn't ready for the job, because she time and time again has refused to answer hypothetical questions about national security and...well pretty much everything.

On the crisis in Danfur:

"One of the jobs of a president is being very reasoned in approaching these issues," Hillary Clinton said to a hypothetical question about sending ground troops to Darfur. "And I don't think it's useful to be talking in these kinds of abstract hypothetical terms."

On Iran:

When Russert asked what her attitude would be toward an Israeli strike on Iranian nuclear facilities, she refused to answer such a "hypothetical." He insisted it was a real possibility, but she would not play.

Yep, Hillary clearly isn't ready.

by animated 2008-04-04 09:44PM | 0 recs
Re: Really? Hmmm....

Bingo.  Nice post.

by fogiv 2008-04-04 10:19PM | 0 recs
Thats proof Hillary IS ready...

Look, if you are President, you can't answer those kinds of questions, at all, because the answers often involve confidential information on war and terrorism response plans. Its more honest to answer honestly which is to say that you couldn't answer than to play into the whole press-hysterical thing that we all know the media and the blogoshere feed on like hungry vultures.

Hillary knows exactly what these questions do, they help prepare an enemy to attack us.

Thats similar in the copying respect, but slightly different in motive to some of the questions Obama folk ask Hillary folk here, perhaps they are Obama insiders, trying to make Obama's responses to things seem a little less phony.

(That's called 'parroting' or 'mirroring' and narcissistic folks do it all the time.

They see something a genuine human being does and copy it, completely, so they can appear to have a normal response like others. Often they do it very well, but these is often some crucial piece missing that clues you in that something is not right. )

by architek 2008-04-05 06:24AM | 0 recs
Like, for example, Obama requiring poor parents...

to insure their children, but then not offering universal healthcare, so of course, knowing that parents will HAVE to buy some minimalistic, high deductible, capped 'insurance' plan will become obscenely expensive because the insurance companies will have a mandate to screw the customer.

Obama's trying to appear humane, but HE JUST DOESN'T GET IT, and the result is he is PUNISHING us for even just being dumb enough to elect him.

Bush does that too, ALL THE TIME.

Not a single thing Bush has done under the guise of helping people has helped people.

Note, in the Bible it says "BY THEIR FRUIT SHALL YE KNOW THEM"

by architek 2008-04-05 06:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Like, for example, Obama requiring poor parent
Yeah that universal healthcare approach isn't going to well in Mass.  
People waiting a year and a half to get physicals...look at the recent article in the NY Times
by hootie4170 2008-04-05 10:15AM | 0 recs
Except -

9/11 was on our soil (It's visceral) - and there is proof that some people were looking at possibilities of such an attack - and alerting officials.  Rice's comment was wrong.  Factually wrong.  As well, surely all our candidates of all parties must have thought about this - must think about this.  My son and I often talk about this.  He thinks such an attack will not happen again here - I don't agree.  And a President's duty is to protect America.  Darfur is a sad business - but it is humanitarian effort.  americans may be cautious about humanitarian efforts.  Although Iraq was in no way a humanitarian cause - the administration has couched it thusly.  Would we stand for troops going there?  

These two examples don't compare. The second question is loaded - has Sen. Obama been asked this question.  I'm curious.  

I'm surprised Sen. Obama said this.  Maybe he was tired - the campaign has to be getting to both of them.  

by Xanthe 2008-04-05 06:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Except -

No, they are exactly the same. The key word is hypothetical. As Sen. Clinton says, presidential contenders shouldn't answer hypotheticals like this.

Let me get this straight...you really think Obama should have humored Matthews and walked through a fantasy scenario of alerting the Joint Chiefs, shooting doing the planes, etc? Really? Maybe Matthews should have supplied him with a twelve-sided die and some war game figurines for good effect.

I guarantee he would have gotten WAY more criticism had he done that, in fact it would have been as bad as the Tusla flap for Hillary. Not to mention it wouldn't have accomplished anything, because no one know what you would do in these situations, just as no one knew EXACTLY how 9-11 was going to unfold.

by animated 2008-04-05 09:17AM | 0 recs
No, I appreciate Sen. Obama's

intelligence.  He can be nimble.  I wouldn't use the terms you use at all.  He could have and would have done very nicely without your framing.

But without Condi's phrasing as well -  

But Matthews may have enjoyed the figurines.

by Xanthe 2008-04-05 12:40PM | 0 recs
Re: Really? Hmmm....

/snark

I guess it is true then - Obama cribs off of Hillary's answers.

/snark

by colebiancardi 2008-04-05 07:02AM | 0 recs
Re: Good Lord.

Chris Matthews set up a ridiculous scenario in which we knew that the plane was hijacked.  On 9/11, we didn't know the planes were hijacked until they started landing into buildings.  There was concern b/c they could not be located, but nobody was sure that they had been hijacked.  

This is a silly argument.  Neither Hillary nor Obama are sit there and do nothing like Bush.  They are both really talented administrators.  I have full faith in both of there abilities to react to another attack.

by nklein 2008-04-04 09:53PM | 0 recs
You are right!

They both would act quickly.  That's why the comment surprised me.  and now that a Jersey girl stepped in - it's got purchase.

I see now McCain patronizingly talking about Sen. Obama and foreign policy - he just doesn't understand - but I've been around a long time - that's the gist.

Since Sen obama is a wordsmith - his parroting Condi gives cover to the admin.

It may be a miniscule event but who knows.

by Xanthe 2008-04-05 07:18AM | 0 recs
Re: You are right!

Obama did not parrot Condi.  Matthews was talking about the tactics that would be employed by the U.S. to counter a hijacking.  Obama did not want to speak to the tactics to be used and said that nobody could have foreseen the tactics al Qaeda used.  Condi was referring to not be able to foresee any attack on the U.S. at all.

by nklein 2008-04-05 09:51PM | 0 recs
What were the tactics?

flying into the world trade center - causing the uber reaction of the administration and giving it cover to invade Iraq?  was it an attack?  I don't see the difference.  

by Xanthe 2008-04-06 01:25PM | 0 recs
Re: What were the tactics?

You don't understand the difference between tactics and strategy.  Perhaps that is part of the problem with this whole primary fight.

by nklein 2008-04-06 01:48PM | 0 recs
Sorry I didn't answer sooner -

it's gardening season!

Here's what I understand:  macro/micro - nothing more, nothing less.

I realize that it is now a theme that has some purchase - I don't get it myself.  

I know the current meme - Obviously, it's a matter of language - It still smacks of Condi to my ear.

:)

by Xanthe 2008-04-13 09:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Interesting...

Hillary on hypotheticals.

by robroser 2008-04-04 10:26PM | 0 recs
I hoped that would

be a Rick-Roll.

by Student Guy 2008-04-04 11:33PM | 0 recs
No, you're wrong

Addressing hypothetical attacks cooked up by some journalist are NOT what leaders do.

You have to either say you are going to shoot down those planes, or try to force them down with fighter jets.

And if there is another plan, you don't want to announce it on a TV show so that everyone else hears it.

This is a totaly ridiculous premise. It's absurd.

Now, to Ms. Breitweiser's point about 9-11 being predictable. Perhaps, I have said that with the memos and agent reports that there were enough pieces there to put togehter to prevent such an attack.

So she has a point there. But the point get's blown away when you think about this is a reporter asking a Presidential Candidate that does not have daily briefings from the Intelligence agencies. It's a ridiculous presumption.

The fact is, you, and Ms. Breitweiser did not finish the quote. With Senator Obama saying if there is an attack it will be something other than the plan used on 9-11.

That was the other point lost in your, and Ms. Breitweiser's, eagerness to slam Senator Obama.

by DaveDial 2008-04-05 06:56AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Once again, a great diary alegre.

It is becoming more clear every day that there is only one choice. Obama needs prepared remarks and should have known what to say in that moment. Unless, he actually believes what he said and in that case it becomes even worse.

Hillary 08.

by americanincanada 2008-04-04 07:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Hate to say it but I think you might be right.

by alegre 2008-04-04 08:18PM | 0 recs
What does this say of his JUDGEMENT?

Does this indicate he's someone with discernment.  Good judgement?

by debcoop 2008-04-04 08:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

I have no doubt that Hillary is ready more than anyone to answer that 3AM phone call for national security or economy issue, or any other issues that might arise.

by JoeySky18 2008-04-04 07:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

I'm right there with ya on this one Joey.  No doubt about it - Hillary's the candidate who's best prepared to deal with those calls.

by alegre 2008-04-04 08:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Name one national security crisis Hillary's dealt with.

by animated 2008-04-04 09:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Name one that Obama's dealt with. We can play that game all day long.

by LakersFan 2008-04-04 09:51PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Nuclear Proliferation.  Not a crisis necessarily, but one important foreign issues facing the U.S.  

Moreover, Obama's candidacy is not based on his experience dealing with crises; it's based on his superior judgement in dealing with foreign policy.  Hillary's candidacy is based on her experience dealing with national security crises.

by nklein 2008-04-04 09:57PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

That's not what her candidacy is based on. But thanks for admitting that Obama doesn't have any  experience dealing with crises.

by LakersFan 2008-04-04 10:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Neither of them do. McCain doesn't either. You typically don't get your crisis moment until after you become President.  None of the candidates have any legitimate experience in this area. You'd do well to admit that yourself.

by jdusek 2008-04-04 10:28PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

My question was just to mock the person who posed the same question about Clinton. Of course neither of them do. That's why their "challenge" was so silly it in the first place.

by LakersFan 2008-04-04 10:31PM | 0 recs
If OBAMA has SUPERIOR JUDEMENT..???

How come he is trying to foist a FAKE HEALTH CARE PLAN ON US THAT ECONOMIST AND HEALTHCARE EXPERT AFTER HEALTHCARE EXPERT HAVE DECLARED CAN'T WORK...????

He is a wolf in sheeps clothing..

by architek 2008-04-05 06:31AM | 0 recs
Re: If OBAMA has SUPERIOR JUDEMENT..???

"Hillary's plan is just like the Massachusetts plan. There's not a whole lot of difference," said Jonathan Gruber, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology economics professor.

Like Clinton's plan, the law Romney signed in April 2006 is underpinned by an "individual mandate" compelling people to buy health insurance. Both plans entail subsidies and government regulations. For those in Massachusetts earning less than the federal poverty level of $9,800, free coverage is provided.

But health policy experts and independent political analysts say Massachusetts' health care costs rose after the law was introduced.

"The plan is much more expensive than it was originally expected. If you have a lot of government mandates, it pushes up the cost," said Sally Pipes, president Pacific Research Institute, a think tank that promotes free-market policies.

State government spending on health care from 2001 to 2007 rose 25 percent in real terms, according to a June report by the New England Healthcare Institute.

by hootie4170 2008-04-05 10:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

I never said he had no experience with crises.  I mentioned a major foreign policy issue that he's dealt with.

And excuse me, is she not the candidate of experience?  I guess you expect us to forget the fact that she had to invent an experience in Bosnia to demonstrate her foreign policy bona fides.  

by nklein 2008-04-04 10:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Actually your very words were, "Not a crisis necessarily". You're right, that's not a crisis.

by LakersFan 2008-04-04 10:36PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Yes, at least he has a major foreign policy issue attached to his name.  What foreign policy issue has she out front on?  

The simple fact is that the greatest crisis of this nation's history was dealt with by a person with less national experience than Obama.  It seems that the majority of your fellow Democrats seem to see in him a cool ability to deal with crises.  How do you explain that?  Are we deluded or this just a stupid line of attack?

by nklein 2008-04-04 10:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Still no crisis.

My original post was:

Name one that Obama's dealt with. We can play that game all day long.

But you know, I was being facetious. I don't really want to play the hypothetical crisis game all day long. My point has been made.

by LakersFan 2008-04-04 11:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Right, and my question was in response to Hillary supporters mindlessly asserting that she is the best person to deal with a 3 AM national security phone call. Anyone who thinks that is buying into the Clinton branding rather than really looking at their experience on this. Fact of the matter is, neither has dealt with such a crisis. All we can do is look at their record in the Senate, how they've dealt with issues such as Iraq, and their skill at running their respective campaigns. I give Obama the edge based on that.

by animated 2008-04-05 12:18AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

I support Clinton because of her health care plan. It's her opponents that try to make a big deal out of every statement she's ever made about experience. I was simply pointing out that Obama can't claim that experience either.

by LakersFan 2008-04-05 08:29AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Fair enough, but look back at the original post.

I have no doubt that Hillary is ready more than anyone to answer that 3AM phone call for national security or economy issue, or any other issues that might arise.

A person who, as you admit, has never faced a single crisis is "more ready than anyone" to answer the phone? That's just buying into the Hillary branding, not a serious assertion.

by animated 2008-04-05 09:20AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

I have no doubt she's ready. But I'm not going to get into the hypothetical "who's readier than who" game, because that's just silly. That was my whole point.  

And Obama's answer to that question was really terrible either way.

by LakersFan 2008-04-05 05:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Thanks for this, Alegre. Today has been such an ugly and disheartening day. I've never been an Obama fan but I am genuinely shocked by the Democratic response to Rhodes' remarks. It's nice to read something positive about an elected official, getting up and going to work on behalf of other people. Lots of 'em do it. It was nice to read about it tonight.

by Little Otter 2008-04-04 07:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

I don't get the whole Rhodes thing either.  People are actually making excuses for the way she attacked two fine women - people in the audiance cheered for feck sake.  And NOW we learn that this event was a fundraiser for BO.

So the question is... will he denounce Rhodes the way he did Imus?

by alegre 2008-04-04 08:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

I feel betrayed by the Democratic party. I dont' understand where Boxer and Mikulski are on this. What happened here, in the name of political campaign, is so beyond the pale, I'm just stunned.

I'm writing all my elected officials (everyone is Democratic who represents me) and I'm letting them know that I will not vote in the presidential campaign if Obama is the nominee, and further, that if he does not apologize and demand his supporters cease the misogynist rhetoric, I will not be voting for anyone this November. I'll sit the damn election out.

I haven't spent all these years supporting my Democratic representatives to have the first viable female candidate for president treated like this. I feel absolutely pissed on by Obama, his wife (who should be outfront on this) and his supporters. I cannot believe that people think it's accceptable for a nationally known talk show host to carry on like this at an event for a candidate.

This is not acceptable rhetoric, and if Democrats don't put a stop to it, I will not support them.

by Little Otter 2008-04-04 09:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

I'm writing all my elected officials (everyone is Democratic who represents me) and I'm letting them know that I will not vote in the presidential campaign if Obama is the nominee, and further, that if he does not apologize and demand his supporters cease the misogynist rhetoric, I will not be voting for anyone this November. I'll sit the damn election out.

I'm going to get some real joy out of throwing this back in your face when you're bitching about McCain's third war or his Supreme Court nomination or the new round of tax cuts for the wealthy or the rending of social programs or the diminution of environmental regulations or etc or etc or etc.

by bookish 2008-04-05 05:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Nope, Democrats don't get to engage in lots of misogynist rhetoric and then expect women to turn out because McCain is worse. If the Democrats want my vote, then they have to behave at the level of civilization I'm looking for in my candidates.

I don't believe McCain is going to be that much worse than Obama. I don't believe Obama will appoint pro-choice judges. He's all about post-partisanship, and with his present votes on abortion issues, I'm not buying that he'll do better.

You don't like the idea that McCain might win because blue state women won't turn out for Obama - then tell your candidate to stop the misogynist rhetoric that he, his campaign and his supporters are engaging in. Odd what a deplorable idea that is to so many of Obama's supporters.

by Little Otter 2008-04-05 10:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Nope, Democrats don't get to engage in lots of misogynist rhetoric and then expect women to turn out because McCain is worse. If the Democrats want my vote, then they have to behave at the level of civilization I'm looking for in my candidates.

I don't believe McCain is going to be that much worse than Obama. I don't believe Obama will appoint pro-choice judges. He's all about post-partisanship, and with his present votes on abortion issues, I'm not buying that he'll do better.

You don't like the idea that McCain might win because blue state women won't turn out for Obama? Then tell your candidate to stop the misogynist rhetoric that he, his campaign and his supporters are engaging in. Odd what a deplorable idea that is to so many of Obama's supporters.

I won't elect a bigot of any stripe to the White House and don't threaten me with McCain's bigotry as being worse. Democrats are supposed to be  substantially better than Republicans, and right now, Obama, his campaign and his supporter's rhetoric is as bad as we have traditionally  heardfrom the Texas GOP. That may be your idea of progress but a candidate who talks about women like he's Claytie Williams certainly isn't mine. If that's the best the Democrats can do, then women are simply fucked.

by Little Otter 2008-04-05 10:42AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

I don't know how many times someone can explain that those present votes were part of a strategy laid out by Planned Parenthood Illniois and Planned Parenthood Chicago in order to protect vulnerable democrats. I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure Planned Parenthood is a pro-choice organization. The President of both PP IL and PP Chicago have both come out in defense Obama's present votes, and he was endorsed by a former NARAL president.

The fact that you can hear this over and over again, and yet still come to the same conclusion that his present votes means he is not pro-choice and somehow will elect conservative judges makes me think you would just never vote Obama, perhaps out of spite. Since it is pretty clear he will be our nominee, you are willing to risk endangering the rights and lives of millions of women like myself because of spite. You are willing to send my friend Josh to Iraq for his 5th, 6th, 7th, 100th tour of duty out of spite. I know Barack isn't a misogynist. That's garbage. Nor do I think Randi Rhodes is a misogynist. Before this incident, I used to love Randi Rhodes because of the way she talked about the Bush administration. She is a foul-mouthed comedienne, and that's how she speaks, that's her gimmick. Now, I do believe she was pretty stupid to ever say that kind of thing in public at an Obama event. What the hell did she think would happen? But I don't think it means she hates women. If the only other points you can bring up in "proving" Obama's misogyny are those old points like where he said the word "claws" and mentioned she was feeling down, than I have to call you on your hyperbole.

Barack should have said "Claws. You know, like the kind Wolverine has in X-Men" or "feeling down, in an androgynous way".

by cecilybecily 2008-04-05 11:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

You're clearly beyond HOPE.

I will be here and pulling your archived comments later on when you go into fits about McCain's choice of a deacon for SCOTUS.

by bookish 2008-04-05 01:12PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

BTW, please provide one misogynistic quote from Barack Obama. I expect no reply.

by bookish 2008-04-05 01:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

I don't get that people want to beat the Randi Rhodes thing to death.  She made undeniably offensive remarks, and she lost her job.  This as it should be.   Because of the context of the remarks, there has been substantial discussion of journalistic independence, freedom of speech, and censorship.  Discussion of opposing opinions is a good thing.  This is as it should be.

But some want only their opinion to be heard, that the other opinion is absolutely wrong and without merit.  That is not as it should be.

Further, it is apparent that some now wish to hold anyone accountable for anything that anyone they ever knew (or who they don't know but likes them) has said.  Obama has clearly, incontrovertibly, and often asserted his respect for Sen. Clinton; and he need not dignify Rhodes' remarks by doing it again in that context.  

To expect a Presidential candidate to acknowledge, take responsibility for, or in any way give exposure or credibility to the remarks at an event for which he was clearly not responsible is demeaning to his position as a viable candidate and further demeaning to Hillary by giving those remarks added gravity.

by rb608 2008-04-05 03:10AM | 0 recs
Your statement is pretty amazing

But some want only their opinion to be heard, that the other opinion is absolutely wrong and without merit.  That is not as it should be.

Especially since you routinely troll rate Hillary supporters who disagree with you for no apparent reason:

http://rb608.mydd.com/comments/2008/4/4/ 233920/0748/15#15

http://rb608.mydd.com/comments/2008/4/4/ 233920/0748/7#7

http://rb608.mydd.com/comments/2008/4/4/ 233920/0748/5#5

by KnowVox 2008-04-05 06:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Your statement is pretty amazing

Perhaps your post is what passes for substantive discussion in your little world; but it's completely irrelevant to any of the points I brought up.  The three TRs you cite were well deserved.  They were meant solely to inflame and offered no substantive content.

by rb608 2008-04-05 08:53AM | 0 recs
Re: Your statement is pretty amazing

To the contrary "in your little world" anyone who offers an opinion contrary to yours is troll rated, in violation of the rules of this site.

by KnowVox 2008-04-05 06:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Your statement is pretty amazing

That is, of course, demonstrably false; but you are entitled to your opinion.

by rb608 2008-04-06 04:19AM | 0 recs
Re: Your statement is pretty amazing

And you did the same to me. What a hypocrite Knowknox is.

by Pravin 2008-04-06 07:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

My lord, does he have to reject and denounce every outlandish comment made by an Obama supporter.   Maybe he should reject and denounce my Aunt for saying "She is destroying the Democratic Party."  Or my Mom for saying "This is not the woman I want as the first female President."

by hootie4170 2008-04-05 10:50AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment
does he have to reject and denounce every outlandish comment made by an Obama supporter
Unfair, isn't it? Now retrospectively apply that to all the statements by Clinton supporters that were packaged up and sold as a racist master plan.
by FlipYrWhig 2008-04-05 11:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

what's telling is that matthews asked him a version of the 3 AM question. and this is how he ducked it.

it reminds me of dan quayle in the 92 debates when a panelist asked him what was the first thing he would do if he heard that bush had just died and he (quayle) was now president. quayle answered that he'd say a prayer. heh! so would a lot of us under those circumstances.

if obama is so averse to even answering the question of what he'd do if al quaeda hijacked a couple of jets, what's he going to do if he's in the actual situation? he can't vote "present". he can't commission a study. he can't appoint a commission. people want answers.

by campskunk 2008-04-04 07:55PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

He's been railing against this ad for weeks so he HAD to know someone would ask him a question about getting that 3 am call.  And he still flubbed it.

Just like he did with that question re the drivers licenses for undocumented immigrants.

If he has this much trouble anticipating the expected, how are we to believe he'll be able to handle that call in the middle of the night????

by alegre 2008-04-04 09:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

I find it odd that you only reply to people who agree with you, also weren't you the one who defected from Kos because they wear "smearing" your candidate.  Looks like you have finally found a home where you can do the "smearing" of the other Democratic candidate.  Go figure, hypocrisy rears its ugly head again.

by hootie4170 2008-04-05 10:55AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

For the ostrich crowd that believe any and all of the lies coming out of Saint Obama's gifted mouth I present a little something I like to call the truth. As Obama followers are apparently allergic to it I give them fair warning not to follow this link. But for the rest of you how about actually examining the facts about what was known about 9/11 long before it happened.

Bush Administration's First Memo on al-Qaeda Declassified

by Fleaflicker 2008-04-04 07:59PM | 0 recs
Great link!

Thanks, I've been looking for this. I must have used poor search terms not to have found this link.

by Swedie 2008-04-05 01:00AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Any of the candidates would have been foolish to answer a question like that. In fact, I remember Senator Clinton hitting back at a questioner in one of the debates for asking a national security hypothetical like that. What are you going to say, I would have shot those planes, with passengers, out of the sky? I'm sure you'd be hitting Obama just as hard had he given that answer:)

by animated 2008-04-04 08:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

If he want to hit back,  hit it hard like Sen Clinton and never backed of the discussion the question.    And Sen. Clinton refused to answer because it will dampen our relationship with Pakistan government which is our ally.

I think Chris wanted to help Obama by giving him a chance to show off that he's ready to answer the 3AM call.  The question came from a very pro-Obama media person, and Obama still flunked to handle it.  

by JoeySky18 2008-04-04 08:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

So, in other words, Obama was right in not playing along with Matthews' fantasy terrorist attack dream sequence, but he only gets your approval if he raises his voice? Admit it, you guys are looking for something to criticize the guy over. If Clinton had said this, you would NOT be attacking her for it;-)

by animated 2008-04-04 08:16PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Your comment showed your prejudice: raising voice.  Hitting hard for female doesn't mean raising voice, it means being firm on the viewpoint  BTW, Hillary didn't raise her voice.  She was firmed

Obama should hit hard meaning he should be firm on his answer and don't back down with half answer that reveal his ignorant of the situation.

And you have to do some soul searching.  If you can't get rid of the prejudice against Hillary being female that you harbor subconsciously, you will never be able to see this situation with a fair mind.  I'm not trying to put you down or anything.  I respect our conversation.  But I think the flaw is obvious, and you are not the only one.

by JoeySky18 2008-04-08 04:49AM | 0 recs
Matthews is besotted.

It's embarrassing.  He is not, however, besotted with Sen. Clinton - so perhaps that evens it out -- or not.

by Xanthe 2008-04-05 05:41AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

SO why wasn't he more forceful in refusing to answer it then?

Why say we couldn't have anticipated such an attack?  He was echoing Rice's BS for cryin' out loud.

by alegre 2008-04-04 09:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

You are missing the forest for the trees (intentionally, I think, but that's OK - I understand these kinds of diaries are fun to write). Matthews was asking him to answer some kind of play by play of what he would do in the next terrorist attack. To which Obama rightly answered that we don't know how the next attack will play out, therefore it's silly to indulge in a play by play of what to do in such a case.

Although apparently you were offended by that answer, I'm sure he would have caught WAY more grief if he had tried to walk through what he would have done in Matthews' scenario, simply because there isn't going to be a consensus about what to do in such a hypothetical. So in that sense, he actually gave the politically smart answer here, which is reflected in the fact that no one really pounced on him for it outside of a few MyDD bloggers (no offense).

by animated 2008-04-04 09:08PM | 0 recs
Valiant Effort.

Again, well said.  Unfortunately I doubt that many, if any at all, will engage your valid points.

In most of these types of threads, even politely dissenting posts are generally ignored as they don't originate from the back-patting squad.

The gist of most of the post and replies in Alegre's usually look like this:

POST X: Thanks!  Great diary!  Obama sucks!

REPLY Y:  You're welcome!  I hate Obama too!  Donate Gang!  :o)

by fogiv 2008-04-04 10:32PM | 0 recs
Pathetic

Isn't it?
I really do feel sorry for them.

Resentment is like swallowing poison, then hoping your opponent dies.

by toyomama 2008-04-04 11:22PM | 0 recs
Re: Valiant Effort.

God, it's so nice to see a comment like yours. I sit here flabbergasted at diaries like these, scratching my head at the fact that these people are serious. Some people eat up and spew out campaign BS like there's no tomorrow. Who cares that Hillary also doesn't answer hypothetical questions. It's only bad if that misogynist Barack doesn't. Where's his America-hating wife? Where's his racist pastor? How hateful these people are, eating this drivel up and spweing it back out onto all of us here. Sorry to sound crude, it really makes me feel that way.
   I had such a nice time reading those diaries like Angry Mouse's calling for unity. Then something like this diary comes along when someone is so full of ridiculous hatred, and some of the comments are so absurd. I'm glad I read your comment. Now I can leave this diary contented and look for something with a little sincerity and some thought.

P.S. If you honestly cared so much about 9/11, perhaps you would have sided with the 9/11 victims' families and not waged (or authorized) a meritless war against Iraq when our enemies were in Afghanistan.

by cecilybecily 2008-04-04 11:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Valiant Effort.

Thanks.  The spin and talking point regurgitators can overwhelm those who seek honest discussion, and it's certainly tiring.  

There are some very decent and honest HRC supporters here, and I truly admire those who rationally advocate for their chosen candidate (Angry Mouse among them).

Chin up.  It will all be over soon, one way or another.  Some wounds may not heal, but here's to hoping that most do.

Cheers  :)

by fogiv 2008-04-05 01:01AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Alegre, you and I both know that there is nothing that he could have said to satisfy you. You filter everything that he ever has to say to fit your predetermined viewpoint.

by zep93 2008-04-05 09:02AM | 0 recs
it is ignorance to the max

for Obama not to know that what happened on 9-11 was in fact predicted many times and in detail.

by TeresaINPennsylvania 2008-04-05 05:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

It's disappointing that someone so prominent wouldn't have a better understanding of what happened on 9/11.  I mean, 1.5 million people bought the 9/11 Commission Report, it's not an obscure document.

Oh well, at least what he said wasn't as terrible as Congressman Issa the other day.

by Steve M 2008-04-04 08:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Don't pretend this says anything about Obama. You know full well he was just talking about how no one can predict what form a terrorist attack will take, and therefore it's not appropriate to answer questions like the one Matthews posed. Matthews of course is the master at asking ridiculous hypotheticals like this:)

by animated 2008-04-04 08:21PM | 0 recs
A H E M !

OBAMA: Oh, well, the--I don't think anybody predicted 9/11.

by alegre 2008-04-04 09:04PM | 0 recs
Re: A H E M !

Alright, Alegre, let's see your proof someone predicted what would occur on 9/11, precisely, as opposed to a general view of the threat of attack. Obviously, you have such evidence or you wouldn't be making an issue of this.

by ragekage 2008-04-04 09:14PM | 0 recs
Re: A H E M !

There was plenty of evidence that bin Laden had operatives on US soil and was planning a terrorist attack.  From CNN:

The memo, titled "Bin Laden determined to attack inside the U.S.," had been described by the White House as a largely historical document with scant information about domestic al Qaeda threats.

The memo includes intelligence on al Qaeda threats as recent as three months before the attacks.

Highlights of the report include:

* An intelligence report received in May 2001 indicating that al Qaeda was trying to send operatives to the United States through Canada to carry out an attack using explosives. That information had been passed on to intelligence and law enforcement agencies.

* An allegation that al Qaeda had been considering ways to hijack American planes to win the release of operatives who had been arrested in 1998 and 1999.

by psychodrew 2008-04-04 11:17PM | 0 recs
I don't think that's what he was asking for.

Was there anyone who predicted an airplane hijacking on September 11? No. If Obama was speaking in that specific of a sense, then his comment is valid. But we don't have any mind readers, so on with the speculation! :D

by Okamifujutsu 2008-04-05 12:11AM | 0 recs
Re: A H E M !

Yup, but Alegre seemed to specifically cite that everybody and their sister in the intelligence community knew the precise manner in which an attack would occur. My point was the precise one you made there, that this information was indeed out there, but more non-specific, as you noted. As such, trying to slam Obama for what he said is pretty disingenuous.

by ragekage 2008-04-05 05:09AM | 0 recs
Re: A H E M !

Sunday, May 19, 2002; Page A09

NEW YORK -- A broad array of signals -- from foiled plots to FBI field interviews -- suggested for years that al Qaeda-affiliated terrorist groups had considered employing airplanes as missiles and U.S. flight schools as pilot training grounds.

The clues included a 1995 plot to blow up 11 American jetliners over the Pacific Ocean, then crash a light plane into CIA headquarters -- a suicide mission to have been carried out by a Pakistani pilot who had trained at flight schools in North Carolina, Texas and New York.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn ?pagename=article&node=&contentI d=A39166-2002May18&notFound=true

by skohayes 2008-04-05 06:47AM | 0 recs
Re: A H E M !

Thank you for again proving my point. As I said, there were many other "plots" out there besides these. Hell, I'd have even give the Bush administration credit on not responding to that specific threat, if they had bothered responding to any of them.

by ragekage 2008-04-05 06:57AM | 0 recs
Re: A H E M !

Oooh, sorry folks, I'm afraid we're gonna have to call this game on account of skipping out when tough questions were asked. Better luck next time.

by ragekage 2008-04-04 11:09PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

No, I don't "know full well" any such thing.  I'm tired of playing this game of "What Obama Really Meant," and I don't like you accusing me of lying.

Anyone who says 9/11 was not predicted is helping to cover for the negligence of the Bush Administration.  It's an irresponsible thing to say.

by Steve M 2008-04-05 04:50AM | 0 recs
Playing the 9/11 card now?
Seriously, could you please point to a single source, outside of hindsight, that predicted Al Qaeda was going to highjack a plane with boxcutters and fly it into our buildings? We knew Bin Laden was determined to attack, we'd known that for years. Hell, the man already had several times. Just because we knew he was determined to strike does that make President Clinton culpable for what happened to the USS Cole? Please. No one saw that attack coming. Maybe we knew of a possible threat, but people in America hadn't been taking terrorism seriously for decades. More importantly, we didn't know where or when. What do you suggest Bush should have done? Maybe stopped people from bringing liquids onto planes, or making them take their shoes off before boarding? Do you think these strategies and the egregious loss of rights we've thus far experienced in the name of safety have been either worthwhile or effective? This is a new low in the Clinton narrative, and rather Guiliani of you, I might add. I really don't even know how to react to this ludicrous diary.
While we're talking about the 9/11 Commission, maybe you missed it this week: Lee Hamilton endorsed Barack Obama.
by TheSilverMonkey 2008-04-04 08:11PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

If you haven't read Clarke's book please do. No one of course knew the exact circumstances of the plot but the signs were there and many people saw them. To place your head in the sand and pretend otherwise is foolish and a disservice to the people that lost their lives that day, and the friends and families they left behind.

by Fleaflicker 2008-04-04 08:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

How am I placing my head in the sand? I just wish people would stop using an American tragedy to score political points. I was fully aware of the threats of terrorism, and the rumblings of bioterrorism (which were the popular trend at the time). In no way could I have predicted what happened. Yes, Osama was going to attack - how exactly were we supposed to know when or where? What, exactly, could we have done about it? Alegre here all but claims Hillary could have prevented the whole disaster in the first place. If the Clintons had so much foresight, why didn't they do anything about it before they left office the year before 9/11? Ugh.

by TheSilverMonkey 2008-04-04 08:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

What is so ironic about this is that the Clintons actually had Bin Laden in their sights during the 90s, and decided against taking him out because the collateral damage would be too great. And now Obama is slammed because he said he couldn't have predicted exactly how 9-11 would have happened. If Bill had known, I'm sure he would have pulled the trigger on Bin Laden no matter the casualties!

by animated 2008-04-04 08:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

I just think it's tragic that Democrats are harping on 9/11 for political points, here. More than anything else, the tragedy of September 11th was the tragic loss of our freedoms in the name of safety. Our way of life is in shambles as a result of Bush's hyperprotectionism, and we want to continue that line of political dialog?

by TheSilverMonkey 2008-04-04 08:50PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

Um, this diary is about knowledge of the facts, not "hyperprotectionism". No one's saying Obama isn't protectionist enough against terrorism. He was just completely ignorant of a rather significant fact-- that there were predictions that bin Laden might try to use hijacked planes as missiles.

Though, he's spent nearly half is time in the Senate campaigning to be President, so it's not surprising if he misses a thing or two huh?

by Beet 2008-04-04 09:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

Tee hee! Your dig at Obama was so funny, I giggled!

Come on, give me a break. I guess unless he knew the names and horoscopes of all 9/11 hijackers, you wouldn't be happy. There were some signs that an attack was imminent, but the planes as missiles thing was only ONE of them. I got to do a lot of research on this writing a term paper on those Loose Change dorkwads, so I know way more about this than I want to.

I think it's sickening how far this primary fight is denigrating.

by ragekage 2008-04-04 09:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

Oh, it's "sickening" to you how far this primary fight is "denigrating"? Sorry but I've seen a heck of a lot worse than this timid, mild criticism.

You can't be prepared for every hypothetical, but you can be prepared for every predicted  terrorist attack that intelligence reports indicate is being planned and is imminent. Especially (in Matthews/Obama's case) one that has already occured once. Otherwise what's the point of having intelligence reports? Just to pique our curiosity?

by Beet 2008-04-04 10:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

Hold on, wait. I'm confused.

You can't be prepared for every hypothetical, but you can be prepared for every predicted  terrorist attack that intelligence reports indicate is being planned and is imminent. Especially (in Matthews/Obama's case) one that has already occured once.

Sooo... you're agreeing with me that there were many hypotheticals on how an attack would have been carried out, yet fault Obama for suggesting nobody would have envisioned what would eventually take place? Or are you faulting Obama for not saying how he'd have reacted to the 9/11 as they happened (I didn't think that was the point of the question)?

I'm just trying to nail down where you disagree, so I can respond to it properly.

by ragekage 2008-04-04 11:04PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

Actually, Clinton tried to kill OBL at a terrorist training camp in Afghanistan. If you'll remember, the Congress accused him of creating the attack as a distraction from the Monica scandal.

President Clinton has defended his decision to order attacks against targets in Sudan and Afghanistan, but the countries concerned have reacted with anger.

Speaking hours after attacks were launched in retaliation for the US embassy bombings which killed 250 people, Mr Clinton said the US was taking a stand against terror organisations who "wrap murder in the cloak of righteousness".

Mr Clinton said that there was "compelling evidence that further attacks were planned by a network of Islamist terrorists."

"Our target was terror, our motive was clear," he said

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/155252 .stm

And here's what Fact Check.org had to say about the alleged "Sudan Deal" where he passed up an opportunity to have OBL extradited to the US:

Ultimately, however, it doesn't matter. What is not in dispute at all is the fact that, in early 1996, American officials regarded Osama bin Laden as a financier of terrorism and not as a mastermind largely because, at the time, there was no real evidence that bin Laden had harmed American citizens. So even if the Sudanese government really did offer to hand bin Laden over, the U.S. would have had no grounds for detaining him. In fact, the Justice Department did not secure an indictment against bin Laden until 1998 - at which point Clinton did order a cruise missile attack on an al Qaeda camp in an attempt to kill bin Laden.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/di d_bill_clinton_pass_up_a_chance_1.html

by skohayes 2008-04-05 07:06AM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

Fleaflicker's gotta a fetish with ostriches...It's in many of his posts

by hootie4170 2008-04-05 11:04AM | 0 recs
As a NY'er and former WTC worker

I thank you.  I'm tired of everyone - from all the parties using our tragedy for a game of political one-upsmanship.

Guiliani, much to the disgust of many of us, (including first responders) milked our tragedy for all the points he could garner.

Now, Dems are doing it too.  
While all this back patting and hypothesizing is going on, let me remind you.  Our buildings didn't go down at 3 AM.  We were bombed prior to 9/11, in 1993, and little was done.

Most flights still don't have air marshalls on them. Bin Ladin is still on the loose.  Saudi Arabia is still the main source/pipeline for terrorist funding.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that the mess we are in in the middle East is a result of failed US foreign policy.  

Why not put more time into writing about policy solutions rather than using us as part of campaign ads and campaign warfare.

by NeciVelez 2008-04-05 06:00PM | 0 recs
So Hillary Knew

that 911 was going to happen?
If so, why didn't she do something about it?

Or was she still in Belfast, eating Lucky Charms and bringing peace to the Emerald Isle?

by toyomama 2008-04-04 11:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

Dag... I got a troll rate from DemAC? What's up with that?

by Fleaflicker 2008-04-05 10:16AM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

This is a silly argument. Yes, there was plenty of intel that Bin Laden was reading an attack, including using hijacked planes. But Obama's larger point is that there's no point in addressing hypotheticals because we absolutely don't know if, or when, the next attack will occur. And that's absolutely true, the people here are just looking for something to ding Obama over.

by animated 2008-04-04 08:18PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

This is so predictable though isn't it?  Lee Hamilton, ranking Democratic member of the 9/11 Commission endorsed Obama today.  Like clockwork, the Clinton surrogates trot out some lame message seeking to undermine the endorsement.  They're still trying to undermine the Richardson endorsement.  

by haystax calhoun 2008-04-04 09:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

Seriously, could you please point to a single source, outside of hindsight, that predicted Al Qaeda was going to highjack a plane with boxcutters and fly it into our buildings?

The circumstances were this:


"intelligence reports from December 1998 until the attacks said followers of bin Laden were planning to strike U.S. targets, hijack U.S. planes, and two individuals had successfully evaded checkpoints in a dry run at a New York airport," [Reuters, 7/24/03].

More specifically, "White House officials acknowledged that U.S. intelligence officials informed President Bush weeks before the Sept. 11 attacks that bin Laden's terrorist network might try to hijack American planes."

http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/03 /07/25_condi.html

Obama clearly didn't know what Matthews was referring to when he said "it has been predicted."   Though to be fair, most Americans probably still don't know.

by Beet 2008-04-04 08:56PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

Again, my last comment, there were other attacks predicted. The failure of the Bush administration was to ignore it entirely. Their attitude was "Pfft, what? Attack us? Yeah fucking right, get lost." If they'd done SOMEthing, instead of ignoring the whole thing entirely, then I think that Bush would have had half a leg to stand on. But he did nothing- we got to pay for his sin of hubris.

by ragekage 2008-04-04 09:21PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

Terrorists have hijacked planes for years. They never used them as weapons. Traditionally, they've bombed buildings, and hijacked planes for hostages. September 11th was a unique event that could not have been predicted - in HINDSIGHT you could interpret those warnings as obvious signs, but the fact is no one could have seen it coming in the way it did.

by TheSilverMonkey 2008-04-05 04:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

Go read the 9/11 report.

by alegre 2008-04-04 09:05PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

Wait a minute, I raised this elsewhere on this thread as did others, and no one has responded to it.  Lee Hamilton endorsed Obama.  How does that fit?  He co-wrote the 911 report.

by mady 2008-04-04 09:32PM | 0 recs
Re: How does that fit?
It fits like a glove.  Look at how all of Obama's endorsements have been met by the Clinton campaign and its surrogates.  Look at how they have tried to belittle every state Obama has won.
There's your answer.  
by haystax calhoun 2008-04-04 09:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Playing the 9/11 card now?

Seems to me that pilot schools were busy reporting unusual activity to the govt. leading up to this, and there was this one guy we took our time with getting into his computer....If you want the exact details, you could probably find them pretty easily.

by Scotch 2008-04-04 09:06PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

wow.  one more reason he will never win in November.  I like him, but holy moly this guy has some serious learning to do.  Yikes.

by easyE 2008-04-04 08:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Yeah, we should have all listened to Hillary when she was shouting from the rooftops in June 2001 how Bin Laden was gonna hijack our planes, right? WTF, this line of argument is literally making me sick.

by TheSilverMonkey 2008-04-04 08:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Hey at least she's not mimicking Condi Rice by saying we couldn't have expected those attacks.

by alegre 2008-04-04 09:07PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Yep, Obama went "Hmmm, how can I mimic Condi Rice..."

Alegre, really. Your hipocracy and disingenuity astound me. Again, you'd have plenty of honest things you could challenge Obama on; instead, you belie your lack of a real argument and focus on nonsense things like these. If I'd have made a similar comment on an issue like this about Clinton, you'd be all over me- and rightly so.

It reflects poorly on you, but even moreso on the candidate you support. Especially since you hold a position as a supposed paragon of the Democratic blogging community; I'd expect better of you.

by ragekage 2008-04-04 09:26PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

What does it say about Clinton not taking out BinLaden when he had the chance?

by lion king 2008-04-04 09:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

When was that, exactly? Before or after the missile strikes in Afghanistan in 1998?
Or are you referring to the alleged offer from Sudan?

Ultimately, however, it doesn't matter. What is not in dispute at all is the fact that, in early 1996, American officials regarded Osama bin Laden as a financier of terrorism and not as a mastermind largely because, at the time, there was no real evidence that bin Laden had harmed American citizens. So even if the Sudanese government really did offer to hand bin Laden over, the U.S. would have had no grounds for detaining him. In fact, the Justice Department did not secure an indictment against bin Laden until 1998 - at which point Clinton did order a cruise missile attack on an al Qaeda camp in an attempt to kill bin Laden.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/di d_bill_clinton_pass_up_a_chance_1.html

by skohayes 2008-04-05 07:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Yes, the Clinton administration was quite frustrated that the bush administration wasn't taking them seriously on  this issue. It was quite the topic of debate.

And for the record, Clinton is also saying now that AQ will try and attack after the new president takes office.

by Little Otter 2008-04-04 09:19PM | 0 recs
This sounds so familiar...

A presidential candidate predicting more terrorist attacks, I feel like this has happened before. I just can't put my finger on it...

by Okamifujutsu 2008-04-05 12:21AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

A lot of you Clinton guys are really showing how disingenuous you are by your comments. I'm really disappointed. There's plenty of honest-to-God things you could be upset about Obama for, or disagree with him about, but instead you find the stupidest things and spin them as hard as you can. And then you all clap each other on the back instead of really challenging the issue. When challenged yourselves, most of you beat a hasty retreat with a covering fire of "Oh, you Obama supporters are such jerks!" without every acknowledging any holes poked in your argument.

In the process, you just look foolish. This is a prime example. If I were to have made a similar claim about Clinton, you guys would have been all over it, saying exactly what I'm saying now- and you'd have been right to.

You're not doing anything to help your candidate by this sort of behavior. Indeed, it only reflects poorly on her. I'm sure you all have personal reasons for supporting Clinton that are very dear to you, the same as I do for Obama, but this is not the way to express them.

by ragekage 2008-04-04 08:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Excuse me?

So you weren't calling Rice an idiot when she calimed there was no way they could have known AQ was going to attack us?

And you have no problem with Obama saying that now?

by alegre 2008-04-04 09:13PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Rice said, there was no way to know Al Qaeda was going to attack us, in general. This was ridiculous; there was every sign and the Bush administration decided to ignore it. Again, as I said above, their attitude was one of "Yeah, right, whatever. Friggin' towelheads, they can't hurt us." And she was playing damage control- poorly.

Obama said, I don't think we could have predicted the manner in which the attacks were pulled off.

This is a considerably different, and for you to suggest otherwise is completely unacceptable for a blogger of your caliber. You have a way with words, Alegre, you're very talented, but if this is how you're using it, you're wasting it.

by ragekage 2008-04-04 09:29PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

FBI investigators visited two of the flight schools in 1996 after the plot was uncovered in the Philippines, school operators said. In 1998 and 1999, analysts warned federal officials that terrorists might crash hijacked aircraft into landmarks such as the Pentagon and the World Trade Center.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn ?pagename=article&node=&contentI d=A39166-2002May18&notFound=true

by skohayes 2008-04-05 07:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

When I saw the title of this I was trying to remember what I had done!  

Regardless these 9/11 widows live near me & I admire their fortitude.

I'm not going to touch the Obama comment but I do think that represents what I mean when I say he is still rough in "off the cuff" situations.  He is getting better, but he simply needs more experience and it concerns me greatly if he is the nominee. I think a fair compromise would be to give him a shot at being VP; while I don't feel I have seen enough of him to discern his full ability alot of people seem to have a great deal of faith in him. This would be a very important office to hold where he could learn a great deal & ideally after 2 terms as VP, he would go on to 2 terms as President.  This would represent a 16 year possible scenario of Obama in the WH vs. a best case scenario of 8 years (if he should garner the nom & win the G/E) which should certainly make Obama supporters happy.  And the rest of the party would feel a bit more secure re: who is steering the ship for a couple of years; it certainly would be in hands that haven proven themselves capable!

by jrsygrl 2008-04-04 08:32PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

I applaud your attempt to make us "happy".  I'm sure the millions of voters who want him as the nominee will be just as happy if he's the VP.  That's why he's beating Hillary in the polls b/c people really just want him in the VP slot.  It makes perfect sense that those same people gave him 40 mil b/c they just want him to be the VP sooooo bad.  

by Hope08 2008-04-04 08:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

No it just makes sense given his experience - it is a compromise that I think everyone in the party might be willing to make. I think many Clinton supporters would like to see him in Congress longer before running & Obama supporters want him to go directly to the top (President).  I am saying that while I didn't even think he was experienced enough to be VP I am willing to think that others may be seeing something I have missed & I think this could be a good way to ensure he has the experience necessary to run the country.  Additionally we could all feel secure that the country is in capable hands & be excited about the prospects that exist. It isn't anyone's perfect ticket, but still an exciting  ticket for different reasons for different people.

by jrsygrl 2008-04-04 09:00PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Isn't the VP supposed to be able to assume the office of president within a moment's notice?  John Tyler had to take the job up after a month.  To say that he has the experience to be VP and not President is some of the most pathetic spin put out into discussion during this primary.

by nklein 2008-04-04 10:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

This isn't spin; it is an attempt at conciliation so that we can move on towards gaining more productive ground. The VP role would be an excellent opportunity for Obama.  I don't see why his supporters would have an issue with that.  Then we could all feel secure that the country is in good hands.  Right now I would only vote for Obama to save the SC but I have never felt secure in his ability yet.  I need to see more of him. I only feel confident that Clinton could steer this ship back on track and hopefully help guide Obama towards being ready to quickly take the reigns should the need arise.  He still needs guidance from a political perspective, but his influence as VP would be obvious.

by jrsygrl 2008-04-05 11:08AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

While I really do appreciate you attempt at reconciling us dems, Lord knows it is needed, you have to udnerstand that right now Barack is in the lead among pledged delegates and popular vote. Those of us who voted for him, voted because we want him to be president. As has been stated before, you don't offer VP to the person in first place. It's just silly. If Hillary manages to either win by pledged delegates, or wins the popular vote count (making it legit in I think most people's eyes that the Superdelegates go her way) then perhaps a VP offer can be made to bring all of us Obama folks back who will probably be saying a lot of this same garbage about voting McCain.

by cecilybecily 2008-04-05 11:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Agreed.  He's clearly not ready for prime time - at least compared to Hillary.

by alegre 2008-04-04 09:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Well, he's run a stellar campaign that has outperformed Clinton's by every measure.  Looks like Clinton isn't ready for prime time.

by haystax calhoun 2008-04-04 09:27PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Wow! Congradulations you made it to the next stage in the grieving process:

Compromise

You should give yourself a pat on the back. But do proceed with caution because the next stage is a bitch.

by lion king 2008-04-04 09:58PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Thanks alegre.

by durendal 2008-04-04 08:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

My pleasure durendal :)

by alegre 2008-04-04 09:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

thanks for this extremely powerful diary alegra.   had obama done something 9/11 would not have happened.   Instead of stopping the hijackers he was dealing dirty with Rezko and making billions in the subprime lending business!

by soros 2008-04-04 08:45PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

...while chanting "God damn America" and throwing darts at a map of MI and FL.

by animated 2008-04-04 08:48PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

so true!!

by soros 2008-04-04 08:49PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

...don't forget the kittens.  He eats live, fuzzy, kittens.  That's what mooslums do.  Such a hate monger!

by fogiv 2008-04-04 10:47PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

lol this is fun... I'm even getting mojo for it :)

by soros 2008-04-05 01:25AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

It isn't a good statement that he made in this interview but I don't want to go the level of bashing him like a Republican would...He is still a Dem. although not my choice as the nominee.

by jrsygrl 2008-04-04 09:02PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Fair enough.

Though I doubt seriously he would have left this alone if Hillary had been silly enough to make that statement in an interview.

by alegre 2008-04-04 09:17PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

She was silly enough to claim that Chelsea was jogging around the towers on 9/11, rather than watching it on TV ans Chelsea later divulged.

by haystax calhoun 2008-04-04 09:52PM | 0 recs
Debunked - good grief!

Dick Morris crappola.  

Just imagine:  you have a daughter in NYC who SAID she was going jogging.  Imagine NOT being able to get thru to her.  Read the transcript.  She did not say that Chelsea was down there - what she DID transmit in her statements was the fear of the unknown that she felt as a mother, empathizing with the countless others.

by Southern Mouth 2008-04-04 10:30PM | 0 recs
Re: Debunked - good grief!

TRANSCRIPT:
Dateline asked, was Chelsea on that fateful day? Senator Clinton told NBC's Jane Pauley: "She'd gone on what she thought would be a great jog. She was going down to the Battery Park, she was going to go around the towers. She went to get a cup of coffee and -- that's when the plane hit."

Pauley: "She was close enough to hear the rumble."

Sen. Clinton: "She did hear it. She did."

Pauley: "And to see the smoke ... "

Sen. Clinton: "That's right."

A few weeks later, an article appeared in Talk magazine in which Chelsea described where she was the morning of September 11. It was nowhere near the Towers, and bore no resemblance to what Hillary reported earlier on NBC. Chelsea was alone at a friend's apartment when the friend called to tell her what had happened. She then "stared senselessly at the television."

by haystax calhoun 2008-04-04 10:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Debunked - AGAIN!

Imagine you're a parent.  Kid told you she was going for a great jog, battery park, towers.

Planes hit, you can't get in touch with your kid.

Finally, you hear from her:  I went for coffee instead - and that's when planes hit.  Whew! but after initial fear and shock that even I felt down here in Oklahoma.

Hear the rumble?  Don't you imagine that's so?

See the smoke?  NY and NJ saw the smoke.

One must harkin back to the times - not just the fear, but also a time when we clung to one another and appreciated our loved ones a tad more and realized the threat they were under.

Didn't YOU feel a little threatened after than?

I don't find the transcript a ... LIE ... but the words of a person concerned about her kid AND possibly empathsizing with others in the same shoes.

by Southern Mouth 2008-04-05 06:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Debunked - AGAIN!

I totally understand that this story could be a misrepresentation of some of the words used, but in the context of Hillary's recent "embellishments", it's not hard to see her trying to make more of a "story" of this event.

Consider the context that the diarist is trying place around the Obama quote, than you can appreciate where I'm coming from.

by haystax calhoun 2008-04-05 07:50AM | 0 recs
Hillary has to live with

...."in the context"  All of us do!  Pits sometimes, ain't it?

Obama's "in the context" of :

OBAMA: Oh, well, the--I don't think anybody predicted 9/11. And, so, we don't know what kinds of circumstances are going to come up.

Just words but (1) someone DID predict planes flying into the WTC, (2) no one picked the date but "chatter was up" so USA should have been on alert, (3) it was a repeat of Condi's statement that was criticized based on the daily briefing of "Osama determined to attack...."  I think you can see that this would set off alarms - especially for those who were deeply and personally affected by the tragedy.

"We don't know what kinds of circumstances are going to come up."  He's precisely correct!  As President, I want someone to do different than the present mismanager-in-chief and have plans in place to handle all kinds of different circumstances, especially events that the people who deal with this crap daily can identify.

Obama seems to be a good man, a smart man, a very capable man, a great campaigner, an inspiration for many, a motivator.  Hillary seems to be a good woman, a smart woman, a very capable woman, a not so good campaigner, and not so inspirational leader and motivator.

If Obama gets the nom, which seems likely, and then the Presidency - campaigning is over, inspiration will certainly play a significant role, and the good, smart, and capable are really going to be on display.  

When I heard THAT statement, it didn't strike me as smart and capable.  Someone should not have to put the words in his mouth.

by Southern Mouth 2008-04-05 08:31AM | 0 recs
Re: Hillary has to live with

OK, I can concede the point that this statement may not hit the right notes, but it is a soundbite after all.  Would you judge Obama's preparedness on that soundbite alone?

Mind if I add some substance to the conversation now?  From a speech Barack Obama gave on 8/01/07 on counter-terrorism and national security:

"Thanks to the 9/11 Commission, we know that six years ago this week President Bush received a briefing with the headline: "Bin Ladin determined to strike in U.S."

"It came during what the Commission called the "summer of threat," when the "system was blinking red" about an impending attack. But despite the briefing, many felt the danger was overseas, a threat to embassies and military installations. The extremism, the resentment, the terrorist training camps, and the killers were in the dark corners of the world, far away from the American homeland."

"Then, one bright and beautiful Tuesday morning, they were here.

What we saw that morning forced us to recognize that in a new world of threats, we are no longer protected by our own power. And what we saw that morning was a challenge to a new generation."

After 9/11, our calling was to write a new chapter in the American story. To devise new strategies and build new alliances, to secure our homeland and safeguard our values, and to serve a just cause abroad. We were ready. Americans were united. Friends around the world stood shoulder to shoulder with us. We had the might and moral-suasion that was the legacy of generations of Americans. The tide of history seemed poised to turn, once again, toward hope.
But then everything changed."

We did not finish the job against al Qaeda in Afghanistan. We did not develop new capabilities to defeat a new enemy, or launch a comprehensive strategy to dry up the terrorists' base of support. We did not reaffirm our basic values, or secure our homeland."

Instead, we got a color-coded politics of fear. Patriotism as the possession of one political party. The diplomacy of refusing to talk to other countries. A rigid 20th century ideology that insisted that the 21st century's stateless terrorism could be defeated through the invasion and occupation of a state. A deliberate strategy to misrepresent 9/11 to sell a war against a country that had nothing to do with 9/11."

I was a strong supporter of the war in Afghanistan. But I said I could not support "a dumb war, a rash war" in Iraq. I worried about a U.S. occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences in the heart of the Muslim world. I pleaded that we finish the fight with bin Ladin and al Qaeda.

The political winds were blowing in a different direction. The President was determined to go to war. There was just one obstacle: the U.S. Congress. Nine days after I spoke, that obstacle was removed. Congress rubber-stamped the rush to war, giving the President the broad and open-ended authority he uses to this day. With that vote, Congress became co-author of a catastrophic war. And we went off to fight on the wrong battlefield, with no appreciation of how many enemies we would create, and no plan for how to get out."

Because of a war in Iraq that should never have been authorized and should never have been waged, we are now less safe than we were before 9/11."

by haystax calhoun 2008-04-05 09:38AM | 0 recs
This is great dialogue

Mind if I try to back up so my comments won't be on short lines.

It will be a reply to your comment above, but it will be somewhere else in this particular section.

Thanks.

by Southern Mouth 2008-04-05 10:51AM | 0 recs
Replying to Haystax comment

Re:  Hillary has to live with.

Long comment so I'll try to bullet responses.

1.  Soundbyte - not supposed to judge Obama on a soundbyte.  Fair's fair.  Hillary and everyone else get raked over the coals on soundbytes.

2.  On the substance you quote, I read a history in the first paragraphs, echoing the experience and feelings of many, including me.

3.  Then Obama speaks about the squandered opportunity - most of us Democrats see the same.

4. Then he begins the criticism of the Bush lack-of-administration and their enumerable mistakes.

5.  Then Obama repeats the same refrain of the bad votes of Congress (Hillary) that took us into Iraq.  (heard that a time or two)

6.  The last paragraph quoted:

Because of a war in Iraq that should never have been authorized and should never have been waged, we are now less safe than we were before 9/11."

Unsaid, it was Hillary that authorized a war that should not have been waged and it is Hillary who is the reason we are now less safe.  (Heard that a time of two.)

And ....?

What you refer to as substance, I see as words that inspire, words that bring emotions to the fore again, words that cause us to remember opportunities lost, words that accuse and blame, words that say we're in a mess.

And this quote ends with - "we're now less safe."  

Well, what do YOU, Mr. Obama, plan to do?  How are going to handle this?  

This is what some who do not support Obama see as a problem.  If he gets the nom, he's going to have to get more definitive.  And if he gets the Presidency, he's going to Have to Have Answers and be ready to hit the ground running - not talk about the past, not complain about others.

We've got a MESS in this country and around the world.  It's going to take a lot of "hard work" and capabilities along with "inspiration".

by Southern Mouth 2008-04-05 11:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Replying to Southern Mouth comment

I really should've provided a link to the speech the first time I quoted it.  It would've saved you some time.  Obama goes on, in the same speech, to outline  his plans.  To summarize, he leads with:

"When I am President, we will wage the war that has to be won, with a comprehensive strategy with five elements: getting out of Iraq and on to the right battlefield in Afghanistan and Pakistan; developing the capabilities and partnerships we need to take out the terrorists and the world's most deadly weapons; engaging the world to dry up support for terror and extremism; restoring our values; and securing a more resilient homeland."

http://thinkonthesethings.wordpress.com/ 2007/08/01/full-test-of-barack-obama-spe ech-on-america-counter-terrorism-and-nat ional-security/

Each of these "five elements" is elaborated upon further into the speech, to the tune of about 25 paragraphs, which I will rather leave the link to do its work than relay it's every word.  It is quite comprehensive.  And I think Lee Hamilton approves of it, which is gives it some weight,  don't you think?

by haystax calhoun 2008-04-05 11:43AM | 0 recs
Thanks for sharing that link

I have read some and will read more.

by Southern Mouth 2008-04-05 12:42PM | 0 recs
Re: Replying to Haystax comment

When you refer to "words that accuse and blame", you are only right if in reference to Obama's criticism of ALL politicians who voted to authorize the war on Iraq.  Obama did not call out a specific senator and I think you may be projecting some defensiveness on this issue.  He makes a strong point that his disappointment was the both the executive AND legislative branches of our government.    

I'll remind you that it was not a popular position when he did so.

My GREATEST disappointment with my party and my representatives is how they caved to pressure at such an historical moment, rather than stand on principal.  BIG reason, why Obama got my attention.

by haystax calhoun 2008-04-05 12:52PM | 0 recs
No "projecting" here

I've heard Obama talk about Hillary's "bad choice" too many times.  Even though I was totally against the AUMF and find her vote unacceptable, Obama has rode that horse openly and blatantly.  She should expect no less.

My problem with Obama is that if Hillary takes the same swipes at Obama, SHE gets the whammy and is called everything from racist to a bitch who pimps her kid out to someone who thinks she's "entitled".  It has been disgusting coverage by the media.  Obama has exploited this to his advantage.  It's working well for him - now.

Plus, Obama has used too many Republican talking points against Hillary and has lost my favor and my respect, where some existed before.

Oh well, if he wins, he like all the rest of us will reap what he has sewn.

I think one of the things that has been SO DIFFICULT for me is that I've watched George W. Bush for 7 long years wrap himself in the American flag and carry a cross - anyone who dared question or criticize him was criticizing America, the military, the dead heroes, the brave families, etc. AND is persecuting a Christian.

And now, with Obama, he has wrapped himself in ..... teflon-coated African American that says that anyone who dares to question or criticize is criticizing ALL AA's and is racist and not progressive, on and on.

So, no I don't think I'm being the least little bit defensive, just realistic.  We probably disagree, but that's okay with me!

Enjoyed the dialogue - we can agree to disagree without being disagreeable like so many do!  

by Southern Mouth 2008-04-05 06:19PM | 0 recs
Re: No "projecting" here

Hey, I know that Obama has made much hay out of Hillary's vote to authorize the war on Iraq.  I think he has every right to do so, and it's part of why I support him.  I also believe that his comments about the war vote holds the rest of our representatives equally accountable.  He does concern himself with criticizing Clinton alone, but since she happens to be campaigning in the same contest, she gets the most hits.

I think that you said a lot that seems to reflect some hard feelings born from the cumulative effect of a a hard fought contest.  You do have a lot to say that I can agree with, but you lose me when you frame Obama as "teflon coated", and "using too many Republican talking points", etc.  I think you are off the mark here, particularly on the "talking point" issue.  I'm sure we'll never agree on this one, so I won't try too hard to sway you and let it go.  I do hope you look more critically at your candidate's campaign tactics and advocate for a more positive message.

by haystax calhoun 2008-04-05 07:37PM | 0 recs
Re: No "projecting" here

oops.  I meant "he DOES NOT concern himself with criticizing Clinton alone".  

by haystax calhoun 2008-04-05 07:39PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

What was Obama supposed to do he was a state senator at the time?  Hillary, as a federal Senator, had more responsibility for dealing with this attack.  Should I blame her for it?

And do you really want to compare and contrast poor choices in friends?  Do I have to list on the silly associations the Clintons have had over the past 16 years?  I mean they hired Dick Morris.  Dick Morris!

by nklein 2008-04-04 10:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

he could have gone to the airport and stopped the hijackers!  but he was too busy riding dirty with rezko in chicago slums

by soros 2008-04-04 11:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

It's so much easier if you believe no one could have predicted 9-11.  If you believe the opposite then you have to do the hard work of determining who failed, how that failure occurred and why it occurred.

I think many of us, including Barack Obama, don't want to do that work. For these people, ignorance truly is bliss.

by creeper1014 2008-04-04 08:52PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

It is still amazing that despite all that Hillary has done, been involved with, observed, and lived through having to do with  world affairs, and terrorism,  the committees she has been on involving the military, the victims she has spoken with, the time she has taken to travel to other nations, and direct knowledge she has of other governments , people have to stop and think about who has the experience it would take to be president.  Next to her, even having to do with 911, she overshadows Obama so that he can almost not be seen.

by Scotch 2008-04-04 09:01PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Well said Scotch - well said!

by alegre 2008-04-04 09:20PM | 0 recs
Clap, Clap

Point, Point.

by toyomama 2008-04-04 11:37PM | 0 recs
Re: Clap, Clap

uprated. not sure why it was hidden.

by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner 2008-04-05 10:46PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

So I see you are still in the denial stage of the grieving process. Trying to deny the fact that Obama has an insurmountable lead, by claiming that Hillary is overshadowing him, is not healthy for you. Now a warning to all, the next stage is Anger. So obama supporters watch out. Scotch may soon be on a war path.

by lion king 2008-04-04 10:08PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

She'll overshadow him regardless whether she wins or loses.  The election outcome won't change reality.

by Scotch 2008-04-05 06:04AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

That's hilarious! Thanks for the laugh, but your still living in denial if you think a junior senator is going to overshadow the POTUS.

by lion king 2008-04-05 07:32AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Powerful. I lived near the Pentagon at the time and distinctly recall the event and aftermath. Sadness reigned.

Obama voted to approve Condi as Sec of State. She supposedly called him to help out in Kenya.

Hillary voted ahainst Rice. At that time the liberal pundits were all over Rice. Now I gues she's good people because she and Obama have become soul mates.

Speechless.

by India 2008-04-04 09:25PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

And when it came time to authorize Bush's war in Iraq, which has taken four thousand American lives and nearly a million Iraqi lives, how did Hillary vote?

Take a look at this video and show me how much prescience Hillary showed at the time:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=pYATbsu2cP8

Obama's got nothing on Hillary in making disastrous national security judgements.

by animated 2008-04-04 09:29PM | 0 recs
I was shocked by his answer

At the time, and I admit I didn't watch much of the show - can't tolerate Mathews at all!

The answer was simple - after saying his reluctance to deal in hypotheticals:  

"On Day One on the job, I will assemble a team of analysts to deal with precisely this scenario.  It would be similar to the team that Dick Clarke headed.  The team leadership would have direct access to me and would be able to provide intelligence, probable outcomes, best and worse case scenarios, and recommendations.  With that information, I would make a decision.  That decision cannot be predicted at this point because of the variables.  The terrorist team would understand those variables and recommend but I would be the person to make the decision AND be held accountable."

by Southern Mouth 2008-04-04 09:57PM | 0 recs
I Was Shocked

Shocked I tell you!

by toyomama 2008-04-04 11:39PM | 0 recs
Mojo for recognizing a great line!

"I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!"

And for using it!

by Southern Mouth 2008-04-05 09:10AM | 0 recs
He must not have attended the sermon...

on the chickens coming home to roost =)

by SevenStrings 2008-04-04 10:05PM | 0 recs
Re: He must not have attended the sermon...

Then again, maybe he did.  Maybe he thinks that way.  Who knows?  Has anyone ASKED him directly if he thinks that 9/11 was in fact America's "chickens coming home to roost."

Many people feel that way.  Not me.

I just hate the chickens and roosting bit.  Everytime some shitty thing happens in someone's life, someone has to explain the reason for it - as if they understand the cosmos.  They attribute it to a God or they attribute it to recompense for some faults.  

I attribute the 9/11 to the rage-filled people who made the plot, financed it, and carried it out.  THEY made their choice and they are responsible.  Others are responsible for not planning for the action that would need to be taken in the event of such an occurence.

Of course, the 9/11 commission decided right upfront that no blame was going to be placed - just investigation.

by Southern Mouth 2008-04-04 10:35PM | 0 recs
Re: He must not have attended the sermon...

I agree with you :)

by SevenStrings 2008-04-05 02:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

So if someone predicted it why wasn't it stopped?

I think Obama meant no one predicted the attack, the time, the place, the scale, etc. Generic terrorism is predictable. Specific attacks are not.

by mcgish 2008-04-04 11:03PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Suddenly the Obama supporters are defending Bush's failure on 9/11.

Nobody could have predicted....LOL!  This is really getting funny.

by Sensible 2008-04-05 12:25AM | 0 recs
Wow.

You are having to work harder and harder to find something bad to say about Obama.

Hot tip for your next diary: Obama orders the same lunch special as Dick Cheney in the White House cafeteria.  What does this mean for the future of our children?  Save us!

by dystopianfuturetoday 2008-04-05 12:23AM | 0 recs
Re: Wow.

I love it when Obama takes the Bush/Condi line and you guys defend him.

And you wonder why we think Obama is just another Bush...

by Sensible 2008-04-05 12:26AM | 0 recs
If you are so eager to lap up...

..this fanciful speculation as fact, then who am I to spoil your bliss?

by dystopianfuturetoday 2008-04-05 12:36AM | 0 recs
Re: Wow.

I love it when HRC supporters can take the RNC line and make up shit about the frontrunning D candidate.

And you wonder why negatives for both candidates are rising...

by rb608 2008-04-05 02:47AM | 0 recs
I find it almost incomprehensible

That any intelligent person with the ability to read and reason could possibly compare Obama's and Rice's comments.  Sure, if you want to take them completely out of their contexts, they used some of the same words in the same order, but similar in intent or meaning?  Not at all.

Rice's comment was ass-covering, and was clearly dishonest or incompetent.  Obama's remark OTOH was an undeniably correct assessment of Rice's (and Bush's) actions.  Nobody predicted 9/11.  He didn't say they couldn't have or shouldn't have, simply that the crises the President may face can be unpredictable.  

And don't lose sight of the fact that he was being baited by Matthews as to what he would do as President in a very specific hypothetical situation; he was not being asked to give an overall assessment of intelligence failures or coordination before 9/11.

No, Rice's statement and Obama's are worlds apart; but go ahead, pretend you don't see that.  Nobody could have predicted an HRC supporter would spin an out-of-context quote to make BO look bad.

by rb608 2008-04-05 02:45AM | 0 recs
Re: I find it almost incomprehensible

Word parsing at it's finest!  Congratulations!

by Sensible 2008-04-05 07:03AM | 0 recs
Re: I find it almost incomprehensible

Thanks; and your reply is what, substantive?  Do you have a rational response, or is that going to pass for an intelligent analysis on your part?  In what way am I wrong?

by rb608 2008-04-05 08:55AM | 0 recs
Re: I find it almost incomprehensible

"Nobody could have predicted an HRC supporter would spin an out-of-context quote to make BO look bad."

That pretty much sums up this diary. And 80% of the hysterical fluff here.

by jwolf 2008-04-05 11:28AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Obama was not in the Senate at the time of the vote. When asked about his stance at the 2004 when he was about to speak for his friend Kerry who happened to vote the same as HRC, he said he did not know how he would have voted.

it is easy to defend him by saying he did not want to embarrass Kerry, but isn't that politics as usual if you make that case?

Those of you who voted for Kerry and Edwards in 2004, how did you do it knowing they voted like HRC and now you are changing the script for someone who wasn't in the Senate and has voted exactly like HRC since he got there. And concerning Iran, at least she voted. He did not show up.

by LadyEagle 2008-04-05 05:43AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

I don't see much here to get excited about.

Senator Obama never answers these sorts of questions until they become true liabilities for him politically.

Even when they do, as we saw with Wright or Rezko affairs -- his strategy is to give a grand speech that deflects questions about his judgement and character into larger issues that the country will tie itself in knots over, or talk a bunch and then say 'I've addressed all those in the past, and every question has been answered.' Couple that with his handlers throwing other sound bites into the news cycle about his opponents and people just move on.

Typical gifted politician.

by BostonIndependent 2008-04-05 05:54AM | 0 recs
HOLA JUAN, DONDE ESTA LA BIBLIOTECA?

HI, IM A HILLARY CLINTON SUPPORTER AND IM A COMPLETE NUTCASE!! NICE TO MEET YOU!!

I ACTUALLY BELIEVE THE PRESIDENT ANSWERS THE PHONE AT 3 AM AND THERE IS GOING TO BE A MORTGAGE CRISIS WITH CLIMING INTEREST RATES.  

WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF ADVISORS!!! ONLY PROBLEM IS THAT OBAMA HAS SAMANTHA POWERS, HARVARD EDUCATED, WELL THOUGHT OUT PERSON AND CLINTON HAS MARK PENN.

COME TO REALITY, YOU GUYS ARE MAKING HILLARY SUPPORTERS LOOK BAD!

by hillaryfor2008 2008-04-05 06:04AM | 0 recs
Re: HOLA JUAN, DONDE ESTA LA BIBLIOTECA?

And you're late for your schoolbus. Toot-toot!

by Sensible 2008-04-05 07:14AM | 0 recs
How could Obama have such a poor understanding of

the 9/11 Attacks?

The Great Orange Satan won't allow him to Discuss it.

by ROGNM 2008-04-05 06:34AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Great diary. I was in Manahttan. Changed my life forever and I still believe that a lot of what I do today is because I know 3,000 people cant do what they wanted to do with their lives. Obama's comments were unbelievable.  

by linfar 2008-04-05 07:35AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Please stop this nonsense.

by DeskHack 2008-04-05 07:40AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Interesting.  What does Hillary say about predicting 9/11?

On the other hand, she has repeatedly attempted to get us to excuse her vote on the AUMF because...

"IF I'D ONLY 'KNOWN' THEN WHAT MOST OF THE WORLD KNEW THEN"

by noquacks 2008-04-05 08:11AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

Alegre -

Great diary. Bottom line: it brings home the reality that this candidate has NOT been tested in making tough calls about situations in which there are no easy answers. Besides being at minimum an intelligent observer in the first Clinton White House and having proved herself on the Senate Armed Services Committee and won praise from MANY current and former military executives, it's Hillary Clinton that I want in command when such a situation arises. Her LIFE experience leaves BO in the dust.

by pan230oh 2008-04-05 08:13AM | 0 recs
Some of the responses

at Huffington Post to this diary are ridiculous.  Especially the first one that he/she didn't vote for Hillary in the primary because she does such a good job in the senate and should continue doing so. Hillary just didn't go over the menu when she was first lady.  She was privy to what was going on in the government.  Clinton was an excellent president. Even when Obama says something stupid or makes a mistake he never seems to admit it.  Something else in common with our current president.  Here come the Obamamites.

by laternighter 2008-04-05 08:24AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl

Excellent diary.

Wish cable news shows would focus on Kristen's point.

And we really need people like Kristen Breitweiser, Valerie Plame Wilson, and Joe Wilson on the cable news shows speaking up for Hillary.  Also Bobby Kennedy Jr. talking about Hillary's environmental plans and Laura Tyson on economy.  Tyson was on CNN a few nights ago and was excellent, but we don't see enough of her.

How can we get all of them on MSM more?

by moevaughn 2008-04-05 08:33AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

The fact that 911 happened in the manner it did, on the date that it did, at the places that it did, at the times that it did...

Such things, i suggest, were unpredictable.

That HRC supporters are now trying to tie Obama's analysis to that of Rice, is absurd, far reaching, and increasingly desperate.

by jv 2008-04-05 09:22AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

So the intel briefing Obama plans to attack inside the us was a lucky guess?

The clinton administration telling the Bush admin that Osoma Bin Laden would be their #1 headache was a lucky guess?

Bin Laden threatening on 60 minutes via his driver that they could take out the president was a lucky guess?

The targets being the world trade center that was attacked before, the Pentagon, the white house or the capital building were great mysteries that NO one could have predicted?

If Clinton had a 3rd term he would have kept chasing Obama and 9/11 may never have happened.

Its a lie that these things are just mysteries and we are all surprised when they happen.

Smart, Experienced People Like Hillary with Great Advisors Like Bill Really Do Better Than George Bush.

And don't let Obama try and tell you different.

by DTaylor 2008-04-05 09:51AM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

I understand your strong desire to make Obama's comment look foolish.  I have heard the same evidence and watched the same documentaries that you have.  The issue isn't whether Bush ought to have known that OBL was determined to attack in the USA.  I agree with you there. I am also sure that Obama would agree with the general predictability of AN attack.

But I must scoff at your suggestion that anybody could have predicted the exact flight, patterns, date, times and players.  Sorry, but not even the Amazing Kreskin was this good in his prediction!

Regardless, the notion that Obama shares Bush's thought on the predictability of this national tragedy, is desperate and weak.  So is your bizarre belief that Bill Clinton was on top of everything OBL related.  It's revisionist history, nostalgia for times that never existed.

by jv 2008-04-05 04:15PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment
Obama knows nothing about national security..how could he? He has so little experience and apparently some lousy advisors. If in some horrible nightmare scenario, Obama becomes president, we are all doomed. http://tinyurl.com/5stgsm
by aroundtheblock 2008-04-05 10:33AM | 0 recs
Run for your LIVES!
Doomed. DOOMED I TELL YOU! It seems that every time Hillary gets caught lying, the anti-Obama hysteria gets turned up to 11 here.
by jwolf 2008-04-05 11:30AM | 0 recs
Twirling towards Doom

Photobucket

by Quicklund 2008-04-05 02:24PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment

IMO when people say Clinton has more "experience" therefore she is better suited to handle a national crisis holds no water.  To be quite honest I do not know how either candidate could make such a claim.

Dealing with a national crisis revolves around so many intangibles, I find hard to predict how either candidate would fair should that disastrous day come.

It doesn't matter how many countries you have visited, or how many times you lay claim to judgement.  It doesn't matter that you were a POW, or you visited Iraq 8 times.  It doesn't matter that you are 71 years old, 60 years old or 46 years old.  It doesn't matter whether you are black or white, male or female.

It's not something you can judge by how you respond to hypotheticals.  It's not something you get better at by role playing.

Rather than think of all the reasons why one of our candidates will fail if presented with this dilemma, I'd rather be hopeful and think they both will do the right thing.

by hootie4170 2008-04-05 11:34AM | 0 recs
Another thing nobody predicts:

President-Elect Obama's electoral victory in Novemeber, 2008.

Oh, wait...

by Quicklund 2008-04-05 02:14PM | 0 recs
Re: Jersey Girl Takes on Obama Over 9/11 Comment
Some of these comments by Obama people are so naive.
     If none of the qualifications, such as knowledge, experience, competence matters, then why don't you or I be president?
    Or why are we all so unhappy with Bush?
These things are saying are what exactly what Republicans - which is: things happen, just let it play out, laissez-faire, free market, there's nothing government can do.
   Why not vote for McCain? Oh, I know, he's not for hope, he's old, and he's not cool.
    Wrong. It does matter. That's why we spend billions on our intelligence programs. Which actually had been doing their job quite well but Bush administration decided to ignore all warnings. And, yes, if they had not ignored this they likely could have prevented that tragedy.
    Obama either didn't know that or he had same position as Bush, Rice, Cheney, etc. that they could not know and bore no reponsibility.
   Read Richard Clarke's book about what happened that summer, how warnings were ignored, probably they were so focused on going to war with Iraq, from day one of their administration. Read the book, it's in there.
   Obama's answer indicated he had no idea of that. Goes to competence to protect us.
   And no, he did not do anything to stop nuclear proliferation, is that what he is saying now? Actually, he said he passed legislation stopping dangerous leakage and environmental issues for nuclear energy plants but that is not true either.
    There were cancer causing leaks into drinking water from nuclear plants in Illinois. He received several hundred thousand dollars from Exelon, nuclear energy company. He consequently allowed the bill to stop leaks to be totally watered down, and then the bill was never passed anyway. So he did not help anyone except large nuclear energy companies.
     Check out these things, it's easy enough. Get informed. All our lives depend on it.
by speakstruth 2008-04-05 02:29PM | 0 recs

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