Jim Moran Gets It

Via The Hill:

President Barack Obama "needs to get out of this war before he owns this war," one Democratic lawmaker said of the country's current mission in Afghanistan.

The White House's committment to continuing its military operations there is merely "hardening opposition to the U.S.," depleting much needed military and financial resources and lending legitimacy to a government that otherwise lacks it, Rep. Jim Moran (D-Va.) told MSNBC last night.

Consequently, sending the 40,000 additional troops to Afghanistan Gen. Stanley McChrystal first requested in September would be a grave mistake, the congressman added. Rather, the United States should focus more on withdrawing military personnel from "safe cities" with sound leadership, and the White House should devote its primary attention to Pakistan, he said.

"Our staying there is actually strengthening our opposition, because we're occupying a foreign country," he told host Chris Matthews. "And, in fact, if we followed McChrystal's advice, we would be up to 100,000 troops. That's how many Russia had. Russia killed a million Afghans and they still lost the war and lost their empire."

"[W]e can't win a war that is based upon generating support for a government that is not deserving of the loyalty of its people," Moran added.

What is driving the Afghan conflict now is Pashtun nationalism. By adding more troops we are only adding more fuel to the fire.  Back on March 1, 2007,  the then Pakistani Ambassador to the United States Maj. Gen. Mahmud Ali Durrani, said at a seminar at the Pakistani Embassy, "I hope the Taliban and Pashtun nationalism don't merge. If that happens, we've had it, and we're on the verge of that."

That's what is happening. The Taliban are now a vehicle for Pashtun nationalism. Here's how Gary Fuller, the former CIA station chief in Kabul sees the Taliban:

The Taliban represent zealous and largely ignorant mountain Islamists. They are also all ethnic Pashtuns. Most Pashtuns see the Taliban -- like them or not -- as the primary vehicle for restoration of Pashtun power in Afghanistan, lost in 2001. Pashtuns are also among the most fiercely nationalist, tribalized and xenophobic peoples of the world, united only against the foreign invader. In the end, the Taliban are probably more Pashtun than they are Islamist.

We need to see the Afghan conflict for what it is now, not for what it was a year ago or for what it was eight years ago. Jim Moran gets that. Congressman Moran understands that the more troops we send, the more the Pashtuns will rise up against an occupation. It's self-defeating to send more troops.

Below the fold more from Graham Fuller's assessment of the current situation in Afghanistan

From the Saudi Gazette:

• It is a fantasy to think of ever sealing the Pakistan-Afghanistan border. The “Durand Line” is an arbitrary imperial line drawn through Pashtun tribes on both sides of the border. And there are twice as many Pashtuns in Pakistan as there are in Afghanistan. The struggle of 13 million Afghan Pashtuns has already enflamed Pakistan’s 28 million Pashtuns.

• Occupation everywhere creates hatred, as the US is learning. Yet Pashtuns remarkably have not been part of the jihadi movement at the international level, although many are indeed quick to ally themselves at home with Al-Qaeda against the US military.

• The situation in Pakistan has gone from bad to worse as a direct consequence of the US war raging on the Afghan border. US policy has now carried the Afghan war over the border into Pakistan with its incursions, drone bombings and assassinations - the classic response to a failure to deal with insurgency in one country. Remember the invasion of Cambodia to save Vietnam?

• The deeply entrenched Islamic and tribal character of Pashtun rule in the Northwest Frontier Province in Pakistan will not be transformed by invasion or war. The task requires probably several generations to start to change the deeply embedded social and psychological character of the area. War induces visceral and atavistic response.

• Pakistan is indeed now beginning to crack under the relentless pressure directly exerted by the US. Anti-American impulses in Pakistan are at high pitch, strengthening Islamic radicalism and forcing reluctant acquiescence to it even by non-Islamists.

Only the withdrawal of American and NATO boots on the ground will begin to allow the process of near-frantic emotions to subside within Pakistan, and for the region to start to cool down. Pakistan is experienced in governance and is well able to deal with its own Islamists and tribalists under normal circumstances; until recently, Pakistani Islamists had one of the lowest rates of electoral success in the Muslim world.

But US policies have now driven local nationalism, xenophobia and Islamism to combined fever pitch. As Washington demands that Pakistan redeem failed American policies in Afghanistan, Islamabad can no longer manage its domestic crisis.

His conclusion:

In the end, only moderate Islamists themselves can prevail over the radicals whose main source of legitimacy comes from inciting popular resistance against the external invader. Sadly, US forces and Islamist radicals are now approaching a state of co-dependency.

It would be heartening to see a solid working democracy established in Afghanistan. Or widespread female rights and education - areas where Soviet occupation ironically did rather well. But these changes are not going to happen even within one generation, given the history of social and economic devastation of the country over 30 years.

Al-Qaeda’s threat no longer emanates from the caves of the borderlands, but from its symbolism that has long since metastasized to other activists of the Muslim world. Meanwhile, the Pashtuns will fight on for a major national voice in Afghanistan. But few Pashtuns on either side of the border will long maintain a radical and international jihadi perspective once the incitement of the US presence is gone. Nobody on either side of the border really wants it.

What can be done must be consonant with the political culture. Let non-military and neutral international organizations, free of geopolitical taint, take over the binding of Afghan wounds and the building of state structures. If the past eight years had shown ongoing success, perhaps an alternative case for US policies could be made. But the evidence on the ground demonstrates only continued deterioration and darkening of the prognosis. Will we have more of the same? Or will there be a US recognition that the American presence has now become more the problem than the solution? We do not hear that debate.



Display:


Re: Jim Moran Gets It (none / 0)

Guess the only way to win is to let the Pashtun's rule the world?  Please.

Does anyone here want the Pashtun's in charge of A-stan, as the Taliban?  Is this really a case of walking away when the job gets hard?  

And oh yeah, there are nukes involved thanks to Pakistan.

If we don't want to do the hard work of educating the ignorant, then maybe we go back to the old ways of killing them into submission, ala WWII.  Destroy enough of them, and their homes/industry/infrastructure (ultimately their will) and they will capitulate.  Germans and Japanese, in particular, had very stiff necks and after enough horror, they bent.

I would profoundly prefer NOT to do it that way, but it means a LOT more hard work and sacrifice on our part.  Maybe we, as America, really have fallen by the wayside.  If we want a better world, but we don't want to sacrifice for it, even with the blood of our children (and I have kids, so I am not making light of this) then maybe we are no better than anyone else.


by Hammer1001 on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 11:27:35 AM EST

Re: Jim Moran Gets It (none / 0)

"rule the world"

please, stop with the neocon gibberish already. We are talking about Afhanistan, and its wastelands.

We have fallen by the wayside with Bush/Cheney's insand approach of using the military to nationbuild, which Obama is even more insanely trying to further along the road to nowhere.


by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 12:20:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jim Moran Gets It (none / 0)

I'm reading Robert Fisk's, "The Great War for Civilization" right now, particularly the opening chapters where he is stationed as the (pre-Murdoch) London Times correspondent in Afghanistan in 1979-80.  He describes in detail what it felt like there as Pashtun nationalism merged with the then anti-Kamal insurgency, all spurred on by the growing Soviet involvement.  It's eerie how quickly things got out of hand for the Soviets and it's easy to see how that's happening now for the U.S.  

Somewhere Leoind Brezhnev must be smiling.


by kaleidescope on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 12:12:23 PM EST

Re: Jim Moran Gets It (none / 0)

I think there are similarities, but it probably ends at there being something like the Taliban that the US could provide arms too... of course, Iran is probably funding the opposition, so that point could be made.


by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 12:21:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jim Moran Gets It (none / 0)

"Let non-military and neutral international organizations, free of geopolitical taint, take over the binding of Afghan wounds and the building of state structures. If the past eight years had shown ongoing success, perhaps an alternative case for US policies could be made. But the evidence on the ground demonstrates only continued deterioration and darkening of the prognosis. Will we have more of the same? Or will there be a US recognition that the American presence has now become more the problem than the solution? We do not hear that debate."

I have read that some out of the State Dept, and the Clinton faction, are actually making this argument now.


by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 12:23:42 PM EST

Re: Jim Moran Gets It (none / 0)

The character of the war has changed. The more troops, the greater the push back from the Pashtuns.

It's amusing to see erstwhile progressives embrace militarism. Such a happy union.


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by Charles Lemos on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 12:47:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jim Moran Gets It (none / 0)

Check this post out, which has been retracted:

http://washingtonindependent.com/67521/i nside-this-mornings-white-house-afghanis tan-meeting-anger-with-eikenberry-beef-w ith-mcchrystal


But Eikenberry -- who also briefed the White House by teleconference yesterday -- reiterated his concerns. The ambassador told the NSC not to send additional troops to Afghanistan "without an exit strategy" and urged that the president to adopt a "purely civilian approach" with the State Department and the U.S. Agency for International Development in the lead, not the military.

". According to the NSC staffer, Eikenberry "wants a realignment" of USAID, the Afghanistan inspector general's office and the State Department's stabilization and reconstruction office. Eikenberry said President Obama "wants that" -- although Obama was not in the meeting -- and he hailed the arrival of the new USAID administrator-nominee, Rajiv Shah, "because he will not wage war when the org charts start changing.""

I'm not sure why this is being retracted, it actually makes sense.


by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 12:27:01 PM EST

Re: Jim Moran Gets It (none / 0)

The individual, a National Security Council staffer... http://washingtonindependent.com/67749/a -retraction-of-my-eikenberry-post

Still probably reflects whats coming out of the NSC/State hopefully.


by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 12:28:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Eikenberry opposes escalation - very significant (2.00 / 1)

Terry Gross interviewed Seymour Hersh on FreshAir yesterday and said it was really significant that Eikenberry, who graduated from West Point in the early 70s along with McChrystal and Petreaus, has spoken against the war.

There is no military solution in Afghanistan and the situation there is deteriorating. So either the US escalates significantly just to maintain the lousy status quo -- and that escalation leads to increased nationalist fight back -- or it needs to get out. As Hersh says, there are no good answers in that region.


by RandomNonviolence on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 12:58:11 PM EST

Re: Jim Moran Gets It (none / 0)

I agree with your assessment regarding Pashtun nationalism and that the US military presence in Afghanistan exacerbates the security situation in many respects but I am wondering if that doesn't suggest a change in objectives, policy and operations rather than a total withdrawal of a military security presence there.

If not entirely clear if that is what you are suggesting and whether it applies to the ISAF forces as well but it seems to me that if your position on Pashtun nationalism is correct then an unconstrained resurgence of the Taliban, such as they are, or even a period of Islamist warlordism, in Afghanistan would inevitably lead to a deteriorating security situation in Pakistan with potentially disastrous consequences.  

What would be stopping a militant Wahhabist movement with Pashtun connections and geopolitical ambitions, like, say, al Qaeda for example, from enlisting Pashtun footsoldiers from Afghanistan in a wider Islamist challenge to Pakistan's sovreignty?  The Wahhabist movement is not so far removed from the generic Islamic nationalism evidenced in Pakistan, or the penetration of Hizb ut-Tahrir ideology in Pakistan's military establishment.

We are on the brink of a tipping point, like a skater on thin ice, and I agree that a hamfisted approach in Afghanistan and Pakistan is potentially disastrous:


Since the Waziristan operation was announced, more than three hundred people have been killed in a dozen terrorist attacks. "If we push too hard there, we could trigger a social revolution," [a senior Special Forces officer on duty in Pakistan] said. "We are playing into Al Qaeda's deep game here. If we blow it, Al Qaeda could come in and scoop up a nuke or two." He added, "The Pakistani military knows that if there's any kind of instability there will be a traffic jam to seize their nukes." More escalation in Pakistan, he said, "will take us to the brink."

Seymour M Hersh - Defending the Arsenal The New Yorker 16 Nov 09

This comment was in regard to a further escalation of the conflict, to be sure, but I can't help wondering if a security crisis would not equally be precipitated by a loss of control in Afghanistan.  I am not a strong proponent of a dramatically increased military presence in Afghanistan, and I think our policy and objectives there are due for a significant overhaul, but I strongly urge us to consider the consequences of completely losing control as well.  We are walking a very fine line.


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 05:24:52 PM EST

Re: Jim Moran Gets It (none / 0)

I don't think a total withdrawal is politically feasible. The GOP would have a bloody field day. Suddenly they care about a war they ignored.

But Afghanistan is at least a 30 year project. We're talking some of the worst socio-economic indicators on the planet. A 28.1% literacy rate, the second worst infant mortality rate (165/1000), only a quarter of the population has access to safe drinking water.

You're not just fighting the Taliban, you're fighting poverty, ignorance and ultimately history.

I like Biden's lower footprint, anti-terrorist strategy better even though that too has risks. It calls for more drone attacks. Look I was for more troops as recently as February swayed by David Kilcullen's arguments but his COIN strategy also requires a reliable local partner which we clearly don't have and then with the increase in troops it soon became evident that the main thing driving the insurgency was the presence of more troops.

To some winning in Afghanistan means changing Pashtun culture. I think that's impossible.


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by Charles Lemos on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 06:24:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jim Moran Gets It (none / 0)

Well, I think there are more weighty concerns than merely the political.  But if we're not talking about a total withdrawal then we've already decided to buy and are just haggling over the price.  There are a lot of conflicting arguments here and raising Afghanistan's GDP seems to me more a likely outcome of a successful strategy than a goal.  I recall a diary of yours some weeks ago on the subject of the insurgency being fueled merely by unemployment among young male Pashtuns.  I think that is a very cogent observation.  As Peter Bergen pointed out last October to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee there is a model for relative stability in Afghanistan in recent history.  And the light footprint model is arguably 'more or less the exact same policy that the Bush Administration followed in the first years of the occupation.'

I think you are correct that it would be a terrible mistake to confuse Pashtun independence with Taliban insurgency, or attempt to change Pashtun culture.  However I think we have to do more than just mark time there.  I am much encouraged by some of the leaks we have seen recently from parties warning that escalation is not a solution.  And that Obama is not satisfied with the range of options presented to him.  The question is, 'Do we have a credible, resourced strategy with objective performance measures and clearly defined off ramps?'  I can well understand that Obama is taking his time with this decision.

One thing seems clear, doing nothing or pulling out are not viable options.


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 07:44:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jim Moran Gets It (2.00 / 1)

I concur doing nothing is not an option.


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by Charles Lemos on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 08:33:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Defeating terrorism in general (none / 0)

requires changing culture, which is impossible. Only they can change their own culture.

When a French Revolution occurs in Saudi Arabia, that will fix the problem.


by ND22 on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 08:43:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jim Moran Gets It (none / 0)

Sometimes I think we could build an entire functioning society in Afghanistan before one of your sentences reaches its conclusion!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 06:26:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jim Moran Gets It (none / 0)

Sorry, I'll try to better.  Sometimes I get a bit tangled up.


by Shaun Appleby on Fri Nov 13, 2009 at 07:22:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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