Broken Telephone in the Hyper Media-Age.

Throughout the day today I was reminded of my junior kindergarten days.  Namely of playing broken telephone. Remember the game?  Well basically -  the first player whispers a phrase or sentence to the next player. Each player successively whispers what that player believes he or she heard to the next. The last player announces the statement to the entire group. Errors typically accumulate in the retellings, so the statement announced by the last player differs significantly, and often amusingly from the one uttered by the first.

Which brings us to today, first people around the internet, and specifically in the blogosphere were shrieking from the rafters that Israel was using Depleted Uranium in Gaza then later this became accusations of Phosphorus Gas.  So I decided to investigate this further. Here is what I found:

The source of the story of Israelis using Depleted Uranium in Gaza comes from Press TV:

Medics tell Press TV they have found traces of depleted uranium in some Gaza residents wounded in Israel's ground offensive on the strip.

Norwegian medics told Press TV correspondent Akram al-Sattari that some of the victims who have been wounded since Israel began its attacks on the Gaza Strip on December 27 have traces of depleted uranium in their bodies.

The report comes after Israeli tanks and troops swept across the border into Gaza on Saturday night, opening a ground operation after eight days of intensive attacks by Israeli air and naval forces on the impoverished region.

Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak warned on Sunday that the wide-ranging ground offensive in the Gaza Strip would be "full of surprises."

A ground offensive in the densely-populated Gaza is expected to drastically increase the death toll of the civilian population.

But who is Press TV really?

Press TV is an English language international television news channel which is funded by the Iranian government, based in Tehran and broadcasts in English on a round-the-clock schedule. With 26 international correspondents and more than 400 staff around the world, its stated mission is to offer a different view of the world events.

Then about the Phosphorus Gas...  Well this stems from a 'credible' news source, although the reporting is well - libelous at best.

Israeli artillery shells explode with a chemical agent designed to create smokescreen for ground forces.

Israel is believed to be using controversial white phosphorus shells to screen its assault on the heavily populated Gaza Strip yesterday. The weapon, used by British and US forces in Iraq, can cause horrific burns but is not illegal if used as a smokescreen.

As the Israeli army stormed to the edges of Gaza City and the Palestinian death toll topped 500, the tell-tale shells could be seen spreading tentacles of thick white smoke to cover the troops' advance. "These explosions are fantastic looking, and produce a great deal of smoke that blinds the enemy so that our forces can move in," said one Israeli security expert. Burning blobs of phosphorus would cause severe injuries to anyone caught beneath them and force would-be snipers or operators of remote-controlled booby traps to take cover. Israel admitted using white phosphorus during its 2006 war with Lebanon.

The use of the weapon in the Gaza Strip, one of the world's mostly densely population areas, is likely to ignite yet more controversy over Israel's offensive, in which more than 2,300 Palestinians have been wounded.

Which leads most logical people to ask?  Why is Israel 'believed' to be using this?  Photos of course.  I have attached one for reference.

Seems concrete to me.  Let's run with the story.

In the meantime, Israel is denying this.

Israeli military spokesmen deny that their forces have used phosphorus in Gaza, despite photographs and film of munitions showing similar characteristics to the potentially lethal shells.

The Israelis have not said what kind of munitions they have been using, other than saying that their use is permitted under international law.

Phosphorous shells are not illegal if they are used to create a smokescreen or to illuminate targets, rather than as a weapon against people, military experts and human rights campaigners said yesterday.

Mark Garlasco, senior military analyst at Human Rights Watch, said it seemed from news films that Israel had used "artillery-delivered obscurants" which were not illegal.

So now that this is all cleared up, some can run off and start quoting this as fact ;)



Display:


facts... (2.00 / 4)

they're pesky.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 11:53:21 PM EST

Didn't you get the memo? (2.00 / 3)

You don't need facts when you are criticizing Israel.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 12:15:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Broken Telephone in the Hyper Media-Age. (2.00 / 1)

Good diary CG.  I'd note that even though the source for the depleted uranium story was supposedly "Norwegian medics," I couldn't find any reference to the issue in the Norwegian press.

Norway is well aware of the hazards of depleted uranium as a result of their involvement in Kosovo, so you'd expect the story to warrant at least a mention in the media if there really were reports from Norwegian medics.

I appreciate it when folks try to remain reality-based as opposed to the ranting that often accompanies these issues.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 12:55:38 AM EST

Re: Broken Telephone in the Hyper Media-Age. (none / 0)

thanks steve - what got my goat here is that people , with a few flicks of the keyboard can check the validity of most stories just like anyone else.  it doesn't take v. long really.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:01:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Depleted uranium is pretty standard. (none / 0)

in armor-piercing munitions.  I'd be rather surprised to learn that Israel is not using it.

Also, this statement from HRW is not inconsistent with the use of white phosphorus (not "phosphorus gas" btw, phosphorus is a solid metal within the range of temperatures tolerable by humans):

Mark Garlasco, senior military analyst at Human Rights Watch, said it seemed from news films that Israel had used "artillery-delivered obscurants" which were not illegal.

When used as an obscurant rather than a weapon, white phosphorus is not illegal, as noted in the diary.  The only reason to think that Israel is not using WP is that their military spokesman deny it.  Since they have not explained what they are in fact using, however, and the photos appear consistent with the use of WP, it seems safe to tentatively conclude that it is in fact being used until more information comes out.


by JJE on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:04:21 AM EST

correction (none / 0)

phosphorus is not a metal, I was thinking potassium.  It is, however, a solid at room temperature.


by JJE on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:10:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

your logic cracks me up. (none / 0)

but go ahead - facts don't matter when making accusations.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:12:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: your logic cracks me up. (none / 0)

actually it is similar to what we used in the Iraq  offense. It is a new cluster bomb technology that disperses before it detonates.  
something I should probably regret for saying online period.  

by MumbaiBurns on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:21:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

apparently they don't matter when making defenses (none / 0)

to judge from your post.  You make no mention of the fact that DU has been used in the past due to its utility at penetrating armor and structures.  Nor do you mention that Israel's use of DU has long been a point of contention that has never been definitively resolved.  Because I am actually interested in the facts rather than advocacy, I will note that a UN investigation found no evidence of use of DU by Israel in the 2006 war in Lebanon.

As for the WP issue, all you cite is an article with a blanket Israeli denial, where Israel declines to describe what is in fact depicted in the photos.  As I pointed out, the HRW statement is meaningless if you understand the difference between legal and illegal uses of WP.  In other words, there is nothing in your article to suggest that the substance is not WP, aside from the fact that Israeli military spokesman claim it is not.

It's fine if you want to point out facts that reflect favorably on Israel's prosecution of the war in Gaze, but it should also be fine to point out that they may not reflect quite as favorably as presented in your diary.


by JJE on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:44:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: apparently they don't matter when making defen (none / 0)

see what ya did just there?  you brought in all sorts of other things that while interesting and relevant have no bearing on reality.  they are merely you surmising.

yes all we have is a denial, and accusation by the iranians and a fricking PHOTO.  if we want to talk about what may be's, please can we discuss why i haven't won an academy award yet?


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 02:22:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Ok (2.00 / 1)

Please post a photo of you with an Oscar, then I will make a conclusory denial that you actually won it with no further elaboration, and observers will have no choice but to throw up their hands because there's no reason to think that maybe, at this point, the photographic evidence is just a bit stronger than a self-serving denial.  Best to wait for absolute metaphysical certainty on the Oscar question.


by JJE on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 02:31:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok (2.00 / 1)

well i think a better analogy is if i post a photo of me holding something shiny and gold.  not that anyone can say exactly what i am holding but rather that it is shiny and gold.  then when i deny that i am holding it - we can all get together - you can thrown the eggs at me and call me a liar - cool? ;)


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 02:35:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Just to be clear (none / 0)

your main point on the rush-to-condemn by the progressive blogosphere is well-taken.  However, I think that the current state of the evidence on the WP issue suggests that is what was used.  The DU issue, however, sounds like little more than "Iran said, Israel said" at this point.


by JJE on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 02:37:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just to be clear (none / 0)

There aren't many things that cause the damage that WP does.  Someone burned by it will be completely blackened but their clothes will be intact.

If that's not white phospherous causing it, I'd love to know what it is.


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 10:08:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just to be clear (none / 0)

good point.  other than photos like the one attached to this diary - is there any proof of the examples you cite of its affects being used in gaza?


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 10:27:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

media can't get in presently (2.00 / 1)

so all we have are unreliable reports from interested parties.  It will be a while before we have a clear picture of what is going on.


by JJE on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 02:05:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

agreed. (none / 0)

this is why casually throwing around accusations of this sort are probably not helpful.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 02:25:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it's news (2.00 / 1)

there is a photo.  I think reporting that information, albeit incomplete, is valuable.  Nothing is stopping Israel from clarifying what exactly it is using.  I'd prefer information, even if cluttered with noise, to silence.


by JJE on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 03:44:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

albeit incomplete! (none / 0)

now that's a way to put it.  and i certainly hope next time someone quotes this story that as progressives and seekers of truth that we will draw attention to your characterization of these stories.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 04:26:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

all information is incomplete (none / 0)

we're just arguing about where to draw the line.  We have a photo that looks like WP.  The news organizations went to Israel for comment.  Israel denies that it is WP.  The news organizations also went to HRW, who said it the use of it appears legal.  That is plenty of information to be reported.  If Israel announces that it is not using WP, but some other substance, then news organizations will report that.

I do not find the notion that the media should not report anything because Israeli military force is preventing it from reporting everything very compelling.


by JJE on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 04:41:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: all information is incomplete (none / 0)

I do not find the notion that the media should not report anything because Israeli military force is preventing it from reporting everything very compelling.

is that what is going on here?  see to me it appeared that people throughout the blogosphere were parroting iranian govt press as fact.  and that a handful of british publications were looking at a photo and making veiled (well not so veiled really) accusations.

im kind of reminded of those tabloids - you know - the ones that show movie stars and declare that they have this or that work done whilst quoting a plastic surgeon but always with the disclaimer - this dr did not treat so and so.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 04:46:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

there are two separate issues (2.00 / 1)

on the DU issue, you are right, the progressive blogosphere was parroting Iranian propaganda.  But the progressive blogosphere is more often wrong than right, so that's nothing surprising.  Nonetheless it's good to call them out which is why
I rec'ced this diary.

On the WP issue, if it looks like WP, it's probably WP.  Only Israel knows what it is using, and if it's not WP, they can easily disprove those claims.  I don't think that it is unfair to Israel to assume something is what it looks like.


by JJE on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 05:03:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: your logic cracks me up. (2.00 / 1)

This issue could be easily verified if Israel allowed International news organizations into Gaza, but alas they have forbid that. Now why is that, what does Israel have to hide?


by venician on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 10:39:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: your logic cracks me up. (none / 0)

well - they are eating babies of course.  and who would want anyone to see that?


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 10:42:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: your logic cracks me up. (2.00 / 2)

Silly gal, they're not eating them, just starving them and then bombing the shit out of them.


by venician on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 10:59:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

exactly! (none / 0)

with no media there, its pretty certain that israel is doing what you accuse it of.  of course this is because after all aren't israelis and their zionist enablers all just really murderers who don't respect human life?  

in lieu of facts, all we must do is make sweeping and libelous statements, then get them repeated over and over - and bam!  it becomes true.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 11:05:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: exactly! (2.00 / 1)

Like I said with Israel denying entry of International news media we will never know, will we? So why not let the media in and all questions could be answered?


by venician on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 12:06:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

good question... (none / 0)

perhaps israel learned it lesson.

oh - that and back in 2006 the media gave away israel military locations away to hezbollah.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:15:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: good question... (none / 0)

So because the Palestinians had more media savvy Isreal will no longer allow the media to report on what's happening in Gaza? I guess Israel isn't such a free and open society after all.


by venician on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:45:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: good question... (none / 0)

Oh and gotta love your link to a site run by:
So there were 4 or 5 of us British university students, kicking ideas around, frustrated and wondering what we could do to help Israel. We came up with" . Funny how your sources are always legit and others are always seem to be suspect.
by venician on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:48:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

well. (none / 0)

if you bothered to see the paper they were referencing - it was a Harvard Shorenstein Center on the Press, Politics and Public Policy study, The Israel-Hezbollah War of 2006: The Media as a Weapon in Asymmetrical Conflict.

it concludes and criticizes the suspicions of MSM coverage roused by bloggers and exposed fake reporting and photography.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 02:24:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Depleted uranium is pretty standard. (2.00 / 1)

Interesting, isn't it, that the same conduct which inspires a matter of fact "it's probably not illegal" comment from Human Rights Watch spawns an infinite array of diaries in the progressive blogosphere about how Israel is a barbaric nation, arguably less respectful of human life than the Nazis.  I guess it really depends on your perspective.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:41:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

well the progressive blogosphere (none / 0)

it not well-known for skepticism and careful analysis of claims it wants to be true.  See, e.g. "BUSH LIED" and the championing of Joe Wilson.


by JJE on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:51:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]


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