DOMA must go.....

Crossposted at Motley Moose

It is not a liberal who's saying this. It is the author of DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act), former Congressman Bob Barr saying so. First he admits that DOMA was indeed designed to pre-empt the judicial process.

DOMA was indeed designed to thwart the then-nascent move in a few state courts and legislatures to afford partial or full recognition to same-sex couples. The Hawaii court case Baehr vs. Lewin, still active while DOMA was being considered by Congress in mid-1996, provided the immediate impetus.

Barr explains in his column in LATimes that there are two parts to DOMA and their explicit aims.

The Hawaii court was clearly leaning toward legalizing same-sex marriages. So the first part of DOMA was crafted to prevent the U.S. Constitution's "full faith and credit" clause -- which normally would require State B to recognize any lawful marriage performed in State A -- from being used to extend one state's recognition of same-sex marriage to other states whose citizens chose not to recognize such a union....

However, we did incorporate into DOMA's second part a definition of marriage that comported with the historic -- and, at the time, widely accepted -- view of the institution as being between a man and a woman only. But this definition was to be used solely to interpret provisions of federal law related to spouses....

Barr wrestled with the unconstitutionality of the DOMA like President-elect Obama. Today he concludes that DOMA actually had become a 'club' to prevent the ability of a State to recognize same-sex unions.

In effect, DOMA's language reflects one-way federalism: It protects only those states that don't want to accept a same-sex marriage granted by another state. Moreover, the heterosexual definition of marriage for purposes of federal laws -- including, immigration, Social Security survivor rights and veteran's benefits -- has become a de facto club used to limit, if not thwart, the ability of a state to choose to recognize same-sex unions.

Then it seems that Barr's libertarian side is winning over his conservative religious side. He wrote "It truly is time to get the federal government out of the marriage business. In law and policy, such decisions should be left to the people themselves." Can't say it any better....


Even more so now than in 1996, I believe we need to reduce federal power over the lives of the citizenry and over the prerogatives of the states. It truly is time to get the federal government out of the marriage business. In law and policy, such decisions should be left to the people themselves.

And he agrees with our famed Constitutional Scholar President elect Obama....


In 2006, when then-Sen. Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment, he said, "Decisions about marriage should be left to the states." He was right then; and as I have come to realize, he is right now in concluding that DOMA has to go. If one truly believes in federalism and the primacy of state government over the federal, DOMA is simply incompatible with those notions.

Thirteen years ago, this man was the architect of a highly discriminatory law. He is still not admitting that DOMA is plain and simple legitimized discrimination practised by Government against the same sex couples. But from the State's rights perspective, he is coming to the same conclusion as Obama and rest of us that DOMA needs to go. And it seems, he is moving towards a position that Government should not be in business of denying marriage status to folks based on sexual orientation.

Congressman, I don't think I liked your politics in 90s, but today your column opened the door for dialog on this important issue a little bit..For that, a big Thank you.

Read Bob Barr's full column at Los Angeles Times.

Link to Bob Barr's column at LATimes



Display:


Re: DOMA must go..... (2.00 / 2)

Well when he's right, he's right. Especially please with his statement on the Government getting out of the marriage business. Sadly, I don't think any of his former Republican friends will be listening.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 11:34:10 PM EST

well I know he had been diverging with his (2.00 / 1)

former Republican pals on number of issues. This was definitely a welcome surprise.


by louisprandtl on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 11:37:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

DOMA is quite a sin (2.00 / 2)

One for which we shall pay in the hereafter.

Our government should not exist to deny happiness to the governed.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 11:48:25 PM EST

Government cannot be in business of (2.00 / 1)

discrimination against a section of its citizenry in a democracy. DOMA is a sin as you say....


by louisprandtl on Mon Jan 05, 2009 at 11:51:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

wow... (2.00 / 2)

here's hoping for a tidal wave of rational thought?!?!


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 12:00:58 AM EST

It's about time! (2.00 / 2)

Hopefully if DOMA is repealed & the CA Supreme Court overturns H8, then we'll start to see a complete reversal of the last 5-10 years' worth of marriage bans & other discriminatory, homophobic measures.


Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!
by atdleft on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:07:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DOMA must go..... (2.00 / 3)

You have no idea what it would do for me if DOMA were repealed.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 12:06:33 AM EST

I say sooner we see the demise of DOMA (2.00 / 2)

the better...I wish you and your partner all the best...


by louisprandtl on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 12:19:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Or me... (2.00 / 2)

I'm so done with "legalized" discrimination!


Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!
by atdleft on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:08:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DOMA must go..... (2.00 / 1)

Barr left his former party.  He is now a Libertarian.  This may not increase the propensity of his former friends to support him, but it chips away slightly at their vote totals.


by phillies on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 09:04:53 AM EST

Re: DOMA must go..... (none / 0)

I agree. Where should it fall on the to-do list? If it isn't handled immediately, do we judge the new President on that failure... Undoing Republican unconstitutional law is a big smelly job. How long does our Hercules get to clean the Augean Stables?


1st Law of Obamadynamics: For every action, there is a greater than equal criticism. In advance.
by QTG on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 10:31:10 AM EST

How long are we willing to tell a section of (none / 0)

populace that "hey you guys would be second class citizens till we through the list"..


by louisprandtl on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:11:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How long are we willing to tell a section of (none / 0)

 While Obama's busy fixing some other stuff, maybe we should see if there's something we can do to move the ball other than complain.


1st Law of Obamadynamics: For every action, there is a greater than equal criticism. In advance.
by QTG on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:40:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How long are we willing to tell a section of (2.00 / 1)

Maybe the problem is that you see pressuring politicians as complaining rather than acting?

I see your sort of comments all the time. I am baffled by them. Do you really think public pressure is not the way politics work? REally? I find that hard to believe. I think you are just some poster who really likes Obama, but is uncomfortable with how think this issue plays out in the general public, so you place silly limitations on how activists fight for the cause.

Activists are out there doing a ton of other things. Placing pressure on Obama is just one of them. They should not have to give that up just because you think Obama can't do more than one thing at a time.


by bruh3 on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 01:50:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK, not so much 'not complaining' (none / 0)

 as not complaining to the choir?


1st Law of Obamadynamics: For every action, there is a greater than equal criticism. In advance.
by QTG on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 02:53:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK, not so much 'not complaining' (2.00 / 1)

Most of you aren't the choir. The choir is someone who doesn't call  talking about the issue complaining. The choir is someone who doesn't tell us to shut up. The choir is not soft bigotry that says if you don't shut up then i don't support gay rights. The choir are not those "progressives" who are themselves homophobes, which is quite a large percentage judging from half the shit I've read. You aren't the choir. The choir are my friends who just got married in CA, and they aren't sure if they are going to be married a year from now. those people are the choir. You are just some poster among  many on a blog.


by bruh3 on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 03:18:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK (none / 0)

 I guess if you really think it helps to divide the world into usses and thems (to the point where I am considered to be among the thems) and then to paint Obama among the thems, then good luck with that strategy. You'll need it.


1st Law of Obamadynamics: For every action, there is a greater than equal criticism. In advance.
by QTG on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 05:53:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK (none / 0)

Blah blah blah. Let me know when you are ready to stop bullshitting.


by bruh3 on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 06:52:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK (none / 0)

I have no idea what you mean.


1st Law of Obamadynamics: For every action, there is a greater than equal criticism. In advance.
by QTG on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 09:00:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK (none / 0)

shorter: your post is bs.


by bruh3 on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 09:24:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK (none / 0)

I still don't get it. Perhaps the problem is on your end.


1st Law of Obamadynamics: For every action, there is a greater than equal criticism. In advance.
by QTG on Tue Jan 06, 2009 at 09:26:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK (none / 0)

you are making shit up. What don't you get?


by bruh3 on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 01:13:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK (none / 0)

I don't understand what has you upset about my opinion. It's just my opinion, after all, that Obama is not the enemy, is not to blame, and is not the decider that can right the terrible injustices which you rightfully object to, nor should he be pilloried for not making your interests his top priority. I believe that he will move the ball down the field, not by shoving the acceptance of GLBT emancipation down the throats of Americans who still fear and loathe those who are different, but by influencing the society so that the ultimate goal is reached by consensus eventually. Time will tell who is right.


1st Law of Obamadynamics: For every action, there is a greater than equal criticism. In advance.
by QTG on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 08:34:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK (none / 0)

Saying it's your opinion does not mean its not bullshit. That makes it worse.


by bruh3 on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 11:20:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: OK (none / 0)

Whatever, perhaps you are smarter than I am, and I'll consider the possibility that you are correct - that my opinions are bullshit and yours aren't.

I would suggest that you try taking yourself a little less seriously, though. You'll get wrinkles.


1st Law of Obamadynamics: For every action, there is a greater than equal criticism. In advance.
by QTG on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 06:05:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It is a right in this country for citizens to be (none / 0)

able to petition their Government anytime, all the time...This is democracy and that's how it works...


by louisprandtl on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 11:27:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It is a right (2.00 / 1)

I doubt the poster to whom you are responding gets it because he saw the word "gay" and his ability to think shut down.

One fo the more interesting aspects of all of these discussions that recur on "progresssive/liberal/Democratic" site over gay related issues is how quickly logic that they would understand in any other context- is lost in this one. All of a sudden equal protection isn't equal protection. Civil rights aren't civil rights. Etc.

The main thesis is STFU because they fear this will harm Obama or they are bigots. Those are the two biggest b/s artists I find online. They almost always claim they are doing it for gays rather than for a) cynical or b) bigotted reasons.


by bruh3 on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 01:07:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've a slightly different thought. (none / 0)

I'm not sure it has to do with Obama per se. I think that is smokescreen behind a deeper underlying issue which has to do with an unconscious or subconscious biased against gays..
It's similar to the biases we see in some Northerners related to race. Nothing overt or blatant but an underlying unconscious/subconscious bias...
I don't know whether I reflected my thought correctly. But I think there's an deeper underlying issue here...
by louisprandtl on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 04:51:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've a slightly different thought. (none / 0)

You two are baiting me, I am guessing. I think you should spend less time fighting for change through blog insulting people who fundamentally agree with everything you are arguing for. Why are you attacking your allies over whether their level of focus on that issue stacks up to some arbitrary level you get to set?

If it makes you feel superior to label me, or if your hope is to start a campaign to have me banned or something, then knock yourselves out. At least you'll have that, for all your hard work. Meanwhile the battle will be fought by true advocates doing useful work while you play childish name-calling games at your mighty keyboards.


1st Law of Obamadynamics: For every action, there is a greater than equal criticism. In advance.
by QTG on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 06:13:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've a slightly different thought. (2.00 / 1)

You only reinforce the point. So we are trying to be "superior" because we arguing forcefully that you are at odds with our basic human rights?

You sound like this fellow I knew in high school living in Va a few decades ago. He thought I was trying to be "superior" too because I didn't accept his frame of how I as a black man should act. Thus, why we question your thought processes.

I know you won't get this. It's too easy to pretend its us rather than take a look at what drives you in so many gay diaries to say the stuff you do. But it really is your thought processes that reinforces the fight gays have for our human rights.


by bruh3 on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 09:32:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've a slightly different thought. (none / 0)

A careful reading will reveal just who is feigning 'superiority' here. I have been respectful while trying to point out the tactical error in trying to get the new President to put GLBT at the top of the agenda. I never said those issues weren't important. That does not make me a homophobe, but your reaction to it makes you look petty and reactionary.


1st Law of Obamadynamics: For every action, there is a greater than equal criticism. In advance.
by QTG on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 07:52:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No there's no superiority complex here, (none / 0)

neither an effort foot to ban you or anything such thing. I would urge you to see how some folks may feel when somebody tells them that their fight for equality is not important enough to bother our President elect with...BTW you might want to recheck about who actually did the namecalling here...


by louisprandtl on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 01:09:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've a slightly different thought. (2.00 / 1)

I agree. I discussed this with Steve M. That what gays are seeing now are the soft forms tha bigotry takes.It's something I experience on race. Indeed, I mentioned an inciddent that was exactly as you described. I went on interviews in which all of a suddent the requirements were just a bit more than they were when I signed up for the interview. Not anything overt, just that emotional "he does not fit" element that you could never get the soft racist to admit to doing.

Its easy to say " I am for or gainst someting' and quite another to say what you are willing to to do for it. The poster probably does think he is "for" our rights. But the test is how reacts when he groups all gays in generalized terms as to what he expects us to do about it. So long as we are the model gays he has in his mind, then he's for us. So long as we say nothing that offends Obama, then he's for our rights. It's a soft kind of bigotry.

The bigotry in its soft form is more insideous and diverse. You are basically right that there is a large segment both here and else where in the left blogs are softcore bigots rather than hardcore (and thuse they think "Iam not a bigot"), but there are also quite a few obama apologists who would let him toss us under the bus not because they hate gays, but because they are fully enthralled by him. Thus, I don't assume which thing motivates the poster.

We are suppose in their view to surrender common political sense in favor of "you should be happy he's even looking in your direction" and we aren't willing to settle, then they get nasty and start to threaten 'well fine  then you will lose and you deserve it because of how you act" How we act being not in accord with how they want all gays to act. The entire group must beg on our knees or else we don't deserve civil rights. Obama frames it well when he says for many of them its a social issue rather than human rights issues. I made this comment in a diary about other civil rights issue abroad, and you could hear the crickets.

As a black guy, I am very familar with the multvariate ways in which bigotry and attitudes on a chracteristic rears its heads. The poster really does think he is not being at all biased as to the characteristic. It's just we realy are 'asking too much" etc, and blah, blah blah. It's bs rationalizing whatever is really motivating his posts.


by bruh3 on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 09:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've a slightly different thought. (none / 0)

 I'm neither Gay nor Black, so naturally my understanding is limited, but I am not un-empathetic or immune to outrage over injustice. My argument is purely tactical. If people like me are lumped in with the homophobes and racists, then the Us vs Them ratios dooms your just cause to failure.


1st Law of Obamadynamics: For every action, there is a greater than equal criticism. In advance.
by QTG on Thu Jan 08, 2009 at 07:59:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DOMA must go..... (none / 0)

I do not think it is going to be very high on his to do list.
Come join women under the bus folks.
by Teacher1956 on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 11:16:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Fight on, primary warrior (none / 0)

fight on.


by JJE on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 01:00:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DOMA must go..... (none / 0)

I agree, at the time though republicans were pretty smart to hamstring the rest of us. DOMA while a bad compromise, did prevent an amendment to the constitution.  There was only enough energy for one or the other and with the state of our national mood on gay rights, I am sure an amendment would have passed easily.  Look at what happened in CA with prop 8.


by Teacher1956 on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 11:13:39 AM EST

An amendment? (none / 0)

An amendment requires supermajorities in both houses and ratification by 75% of state legislatures.  That was not going to happen.


by JJE on Wed Jan 07, 2009 at 12:58:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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