Post-McCain Speech Thread

Well, we haven't seen a hit piece from the Associated Press yet, but I can tell you this: John McCain's speech wasn't a hit -- just ask the delegates.

Sleepy? Our colleague Patrick Healy reports from the floor: There is a delegate in the Utah section and a delegate in Puerto Rico who are both drooping, eyes closed - look asleep - both are men.

It's possible that this speech is the inverse of Sarah Palin's last night -- boring for the crowd inside, but more palatable for the general viewership. I say possible, though, for a reason; McCain's delivery was decidedly underwhelming, and the staging by his campaign -- particularly the lime Jell-O green screen that shone behind McCain during the beginning of the speech, only to turn to a color that at least to the television viewer might be described as blue raspberry -- was similarly unsuccessful.

McCain certainly tried to embrace the "change" label. Will it work for a candidate who hugged George W. Bush both figuratively and literally in recent years, voting at least 90 percent of the time for the most unpopular President in the history of polling? Color me unimpressed. But we shall wait and see...

What were your thoughts?

Update [2008-9-4 23:28:57 by Jonathan Singer]: Hillary Clinton's thoughts:

"The two party conventions showcased vastly different directions for our country. Senator Obama and Senator Biden offered the new ideas and positive change America needs and deserves after eight years of failed Republican leadership. Senator McCain and Governor Palin did not.

"After listening to all of the speeches this week, I heard nothing that suggests the Republicans are ready to fix the economy for middle class families, provide quality affordable health care for all Americans, guarantee equal pay for equal work for women, restore our nation's leadership in a complex world or tackle the myriad of challenges our country faces.

"So, to slightly amend my comments from Denver: NO WAY, NO HOW, NO McCAIN-PALIN."

That's unequivocal and really well said. Kudos to Senator Clinton for her grace and magnanimousness in working for the Democratic ticket this fall.



Display:


Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 2)

Tom Ridge just called McCain "John Bush."  Unfortunate Freudian slip for them.


by JK47 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:24:11 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

Win, lose or draw, Obama and Palin will be the speeches people remember next year. If Obama wins, look for the Right to set her up as a "shadow president".


by RandyMI on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:24:35 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

Shadow President?


by yitbos96bb on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:32:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 0)

I think what RandyMI refers to is a practice common to Parliamentary systems.  In Canada, the opposition party(ies) designate people to act as "Shadow Prime Minister," "Shadow Minister of Foreign" and those people serve to criticize/harass their counterparts in the Government, with the perception that those people would enter those actual roles in the event the current Government is ever removed on a confidence motion or at a regular election.

It doesn't happen in the US because of the great deference given a sitting president in making cabinet choices.  It would be as though Harry Reid designated John Edwards to criticize, say, Elaine Chao, and Edwards would both be understood and have an expectation to be in line for Chao's position once a Democratic administration entered office.

The closest parallel we have to htat are things like "Minority Leader" and senior minority ranking members of committees.


by auronrenouille on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:30:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

sigh rampant typos.  "Minister of Foreign Affairs" and "that" instead of "htat"


by auronrenouille on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:31:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 0)

It wouldn't work for her, because the task requires being able to ad-lib an effective response.  I see no sign Sarahbou is able to think and speak on her own, without a professional's words on a teleprompter.  Remember, this is a woman who, when speaking off-the-cuff, professed total ignorance of (and relative disinterest in) our Iraq war policy, and even admitted she didn't know what a vice president does.  Require her to do well in unscripted moments, and she'll crash and burn.  Why do you think the McCain campaign is hiding her away except for prepared speeches?


by JDWalley on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:46:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

Plenty of shadows with 24 hrs of daylight!


Conservatism is nothing but a bad laissez-fairey tale
by neko608 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:34:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

I agree with you, it's seemed like it has already started.

It's seems to me that one unspoken consequence of McCain choosing Palin for VP, aside from the judgment issue, is that one of the other choices in picking a running mate is that the VP choice should not upstage the top of the ticket.  As everyone is saying, "A Star Is Born", by picking Palin, McCain has energized the base, but not for the McCain candidacy, but for the Palin candidacy.  Essentially, it seems to me that McCain while so blinded by wanting to beat Obama, chose a candidate, much like Obama, who has more charisma and oratory skills than he himself does.  Even in his speech tonight, while you and others I guess loved many of the bipartisanship parts of the speech, it seemed to me that the delegates in the hall, were not as impressed or enthusiatic, until Palin showed up.  Even during Cindy McCain's remarks, most of her lines fell flat, until she mentioned Gov Palin (I won't even get into how much less warmly Cindy McCain came off compared to Michelle Obama).

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if in time until the election in November to see Sara Palin talking to huge crowds, and McCain still struggling to find seat holders.  Basically, McCain has released a monster flame in Sara Palin, which it seems to me has the potential not really blunt Obama's star power, but will completely engulf McCain's.


by lamh3176 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:50:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 0)

I thought the whole GOP convention looked amateurish compared to the DEM convention.  That back drop looked like somebody forgot to post the weather map or something.

Palin was charismatic, I admit.  But McCain  - just not a very good speaker.

I am not sure how much of a difference it makes though. Bush is also a terrible speaker but managed to get elected anyway.


by dMarx on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:21:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

Zzzzzzz....

Wait?

Wha?

Is it over?


Yawn.
by spacemanspiff on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:24:47 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

Did anyone see Andrea Mitchell being attacked by balloons? If ever there was a clip tailor-made for The Daily Show...


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:24:53 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, I posted on the other thread about it. I laughed so hard watching her, I almost had a stroke.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:07:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

It's on their site already. Everyone needs to see this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22425001/vp/ 26553254#26553254


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:33:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

Thanks, it made me laugh even harder the second time.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:37:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Matthews just said that he expects (2.00 / 0)

McCain to be ahead next week; it's good that he's setting expectations though if he's right, I think McCain is the overwhelming favorite at that point.

However, I think Matthews is wrong and I'll reiterate my prediction in my diary: Obama will be up five in rasmussen and six in gallup on Saturday and Sunday.


by Blazers Edge on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:25:21 PM EST

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

that;s a bold prediction- so no bounce all- I think they will get some points just because of the media spin over palins crappy speech


by bruh3 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:27:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If I'm wrong (2.00 / 0)

at least I didn't predict John Kerry and Tom Daschle to be Obama's veeps (sorry about that shot Jerome, you will always be the one who predicted Obama's drilling flip).

It's too early for Palin Power to take hold, at least that's what I'm betting on.  We're damn lucky she didn't run for president though, she is one talented pol.


by Blazers Edge on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:30:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If I'm wrong (2.00 / 0)

See I disagree. I think its easy to seem talented when the bar is as low as it was for her last night. I also think its easy to say absolutely nothing on the issues if you are being introduced for the first time. I think her real beliefs become more problematic as the election cycle continues. Stay tuned.


by bruh3 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:38:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If I'm wrong (none / 0)

I agree. We know nothing about this person. Certainly not enough for the breathless panicking some are exhibiting. It was an effective speech for the convention hall but I bet it goes down as the moment when the McCain campaign jumped the shark and threw all remaining principal out the window.


by wasder on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:04:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If I'm wrong (none / 0)

Agree with bruh3 that is.


by wasder on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:05:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If I'm wrong (2.00 / 0)

She has spoken to the American public for a total of 48 minutes and has not had to answer one question from anyone....She will have to come out from hiding and answer some questions.

The American people will want to hear from her and will insist that she is competent on economic and foreign policy issues.

They're shielding her for a reason...

Where's Waldo?
Where's Palin?


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:05:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If I'm wrong (none / 0)

Palin Watch...Where's Sarah?

When will Sarah Palin answer questions from the American public?

COUNTER:

7 days, 18 hours, 11 minutes

since she received the nomination of VP and hasn't answered one question.


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:10:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I hope you are right bro (none / 0)

but I may just be in a state of denial as to what these tracking polls are going to show tomorrow and over the weekend.  Did you really expect the GOP to get a double-digit event at this time last Thursday night after Obama's great speech last week.  

My gut was telling me that earlier though Palin is as talented a pol that they've had since Reagan, there's not enough time for her change to race; however, that theory may be irrelevant as she may have already changed the race.


by Blazers Edge on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:16:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope you are right bro (2.00 / 0)

They can't hide her for 2 months, she will have to give interviews without teleprompters and answer difficult questions...The moderates and indecideds will demand it, and if she snubs the MSM they will turn on her, and ask what is she hiding.

Remember when Obama was unknown, the public and the MSM demanded to know more before they would vote him, he's been on the trail for 20 months and we still hear it.

The GOP will have to make her available, and every answer she gives will be scoured through.  She still has this legal thing hanging over her, the gloss will wear off.  What happens in the debate vs Biden when they ask foreign policy questions and Biden questions her answers and asks for more?

We have 48 minutes off scripted speech from her, that's it...


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:31:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope you are right bro (none / 0)

Just to be devil's advocate, she has an 80% approval rating in Alaska. She blew out the incumbent by over 30% - in the Republican primary.  So my hunch is that she's got skills.

Still being a novice she is likely to gaff. So they are going to play it safe and not let her get in front of the media where it is not controlled until she has ponied up on foreign policy.  


by dMarx on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:26:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope you are right bro (2.00 / 1)

That's all well and good in Alaska...But she must answer the following questions:

1. Why shouldn't a woman be given the right to choose when she is raped or is a victim of incest?

2.  Why did you say the Iraq War was the "will of God"?

3.  Why do you believe we should involve creationism in public schools?

4.  What do you have against GLBT rights?

5. What are your comments on the two on-going investigations regarding abusing your power as governor?

6. What is victory in Iraq?

7. Why did you as Governor of Alaska request more than 175 million in pork barrel projects for 2009 when you have stated you are against them?

8.  Why were for the Bridge to Nowhere before you  were against it?

9. Explain abstinence as being our only form of birth control, and why you believe it will work?

10. Why was your husband a member of AIC party and why did you attend some of their events?

More and more on the economy, foreign relations, she has many questions that have remained unanswered and until indies here these answers there will be questions.


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:34:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope you are right bro (none / 0)

Palin's approval was 86% in may, but fell to 68% in July.

You're using Clinton/PA math.  Stop.


John McCain, maverick
by lojasmo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:16:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

I'm not seeing the media spin as all that positive, really. A lot of it has amounted to "she gave a great speech, that someone else wrote, that was written for someone else. Oh, and she came off as really negative. Great delivery though."

I've heard that from right-wingers, left-wingers, centrists, all over the media. The kudos seem fair to me: it was a well-delivered, extremely negative speech.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:36:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

Her speech was written by somebody else? Holy crap Batman!

I am glad Obama and Biden write there own speeches.  

And Patrick Duval.


by dMarx on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:29:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

Obama does in fact write or co-write most of his own speeches. And even to the extent that he doesn't, it's not made an issue of in the press coverage. It's been made explicitly an issue in the coverage of Palin's speech, which plays against the idea that press coverage has been uniformly positive. It hasn't. There have been a large number of qualifiers and limitations in the praise.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:45:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

Obama DOES write his own speeches.  He wrote his masterful speech on race in under 48 hours.

Please stop.


John McCain, maverick
by lojasmo on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 07:18:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

After Hillary has thrown a few jabs at Palin, Palin will fight back (has she ever had to go to war against another woman before?). Her disdain for Clinton will be all over her face, and those voters that really liked her will probably be kinda pissed. I think you are correct.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:29:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I hope you and I are right (none / 0)

because if McCain does have a three-point lead coming out of this convention as some have predicted, I think we lose.  That's one huge convention bounce for McCain, considering he was down eight going into the convention.  I think the party with the bigger bounce has won the last four elections.

I'm going on an island and predicting no bounce for Palin/McCain.  If I'm right, Jerome should make a front-pager.


by Blazers Edge on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:34:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope you and I are right (none / 0)

Even if he went +3 (and I don't think it will happen.  Tommorrow will be an indicator), bounces have been proven to fade.   Wait a week after before you panic to let the race reset itself to its correct levels.   After that point we will have an idea of where things stand.


by yitbos96bb on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:38:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope you and I are right (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, we totally lose if that's the case. Because being up 4 will be a 12 point bounce from his numbers before the convention started. Which is simply insane for anyone to expect.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:38:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope you and I are right (2.00 / 1)

I think you are being a normal Democrat- that is to say pessimistic. As I said earlier, finding someone with your view regarding what a bounce would mean for Democrats is like finding a drop of water in the ocean.


by bruh3 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:40:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope you and I are right (none / 0)

Thank you, Chicken Little.

Every convention gets a decent bounce.  Hell, even the Democratic convention put Mondale up over Reagan by a couple of points...for one week.

Convention bounces fade over time.  That's as true for the party holding the second convention as it is for the one holding the first.

Before our convention, the race was tied.  A few days thereafter, we were up by five to eight points.  If there had been a few weeks between the two conventions, it's likely we would have been back to nearly tied by before the RNC began.  Logically, they could go up over us by the same five-to-eight point margin, and have it fall back to even in a couple of weeks.

Personally, I'm only getting worried if a) tracking polls out by next Monday show McCain up by ten or more, or b) he grabs a lead, and hangs on it through 9/20.  Otherwise, it just means we're going to have a horse race...which we all knew we would, anyway.


by JDWalley on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:01:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope you and I are right (none / 0)

Well, we didn't all know it was going to be close. I recall this spring there was a lot of irrational exuberance on this blog. Folks were saying Obama would win Georgia (the one next to Alabama), and Nebraska, and (ahem) Alaska, and even Texas. Other folks were saying Obama would lose only 49 states if he was lucky. We sure had us a silly season alright.

Time to get down to business. Michigan, Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio. Whoever can win 3 of those 4 will be very tough to beat. Secondary targets are selected western states and maybe Virginia.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:37:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope you and I are right (none / 0)

I look at it more like this:

Florida Ohio Virginia Colorado Nevada Missouri Indiana.

Just win one.  If we lose Michigan or Pennsylvania, duck because it's going to be a red night.


by Jordache on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:53:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

Like Hillary's standard vanilla comment released tonight, don't expect that she'll attack Palin in a personal or gender way.   There's nothing to be won for her in doing so and she won't do it.

For those that expect Palin to hit Hillary back, don't hold your breath.  We underestimated Palin already.  Her line of attack was to say that we and the MSM attacked her and her family personally and she just fired back.  

As long as Hillary doesn't hit her hard - she won't hit Hillary.  This will be a non-confrontation.


If you had everything, where would you put it?
by wasanyonehurt on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:36:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

Really ? So a Palin VP wouldn' be a threat to any future clinton aspirations? Who knew.


by bruh3 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:41:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

If Palin is the VP, Hillary can run in 2012.  But she can't do that if Biden is Veep.  


by SueBee on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:54:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (2.00 / 1)

I suppose if one is PUMA one thinks that , but if one understand identity politics one realizes that there is a much more compelling dynamic. It's easier to yell sexist if the other oponent isn't of the same gender.


by bruh3 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:09:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What is more important (none / 0)

It's easier to yell sexist if you are a Republican.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:28:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What is more important (none / 0)

well I suppose if you are a Democrat your comment makes sense, but if you look it objectively I think you may realize that's not the case.


by bruh3 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:42:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

if Hillary wanted to run against an incumbent.. (none / 0)

..she would have ran in 2004.

No. Hill won't run in 2012.

Now, 2016 is a different story.  But she won't run if she has to face an incumbent VP Palin.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:28:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Might not be (none / 0)

much of the USA left worth winning by then.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:30:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

You should expect the polls to widen, close, and crisscross, as they've been doing since the beginning of the year. What they say on Monday won't mean any more than it has all year. This is a race to the finish.


by ObamaOrBust on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:32:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

I dunno, but with Monday dropping out, Palinsanity takes over--I'm waiting until Monday.
On 9/8, I think it's McCain by 1 in Ras, and by two in Gallup.  On 9/15, I think it's tied in both trackers.  Sarah Palin turned a 60-40 race into a 50-50 (maybe even a 40-60 race) with that speech.

I'm not as trollish as Jerome is, but Obama may just lose this.  Biden was a poor VP selection, which gave McCain this opening.


by esconded on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:54:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

Biden was a safe choice which gave McCain the opening to make an insane choice. I just have this feeling in my gut that this choice will not be one for the history book.


by wasder on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:07:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, it will make the history books (none / 0)

one way or the other.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:40:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

If you think the VP selection in this race will decide it you are nuts.  Name me one VP selection since LBJ who decided an election.  Remember LBJ only made a difference b/c his machine delivered Texas.  Hell, Dan Quayle was a non-factor.

In the end I think Obama wins or loses on whether he can successfully make the McCain=Bush argument.  The Rs can pretend that Bush doesn't exist but he does and the people know it.

The Rs are desparately trying to change the subject just like they did in 1992 and like the Ds did in 1980.  In both cases the incumbent party lost.  I don't see this race turning out any different.


by jmnyc on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:24:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Joe Lieberman (none / 0)

And here's a link to the video that proves it:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/06/16 recount-lieberman-helps-sink-gore-in-20 00-election

"We're getting kicked around for saying illegal votes are illegal votes," said a Democratic congressman from Florida. "The Republicans got a lot of illegal votes counted on Friday that never would have been let in before, and now we're the ones retreating? Incredible."

Telephone: Gore is going ballistic, what the hell just happened?

Klain: I think Joe Lieberman just entered the 2004 primaries.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:46:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Joe Lieberman (none / 0)

I am no Joe Lieberman fan but this was in the middle of the recount when we were pretty far behind the 8 ball.  Hell, there are so many what ifs for 2000 such as what if Palm Beach County had designed and tested a proper ballot that didn't confuse people and cost Gore 3,000+ votes, what if Gore had not conceded to Bush and retracted it, what if Nader hadn't been such an ass, etc.


by jmnyc on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 10:12:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

Obama up 3 in Rass and 4 in Gallup... Then he will grow back to the 5 and 6 by next week.


by yitbos96bb on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:33:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

I say 1 or 2 in Rass and 3 in Gallup


by bruh3 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:42:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (2.00 / 3)

I'm closer to these numbers. I also think they're meaningless and a lot of people are misunderstanding their importance or lack of, beyond the psychological.

I think the Palin bounce is almost entirely confined to red states. I don't think she's going to play well in purple or blue states. If the race stays the same in purple and blue states and swings another 5-10% McCain's way in red states, the national polls move, but it doesn't in any way actually affect the race.

I do think there'll be some movement in states with larger exurban populations -- but the movement is going to be two directions. There'll be some additional fire from the exurban people who think she's one of them, but I also think McCain has pretty much given up the Hispanic vote. Overall the Hispanic vote is probably the bigger factor long-term.

One of the commentators after McCain's speech made what I think is the perfect point: the convention, the speeches, the delegates, everything about it made it clear that they're not even trying to reach out to minority voters. They're going to win or lose this on the backs of white voters alone. I don't see that as working; Obama's plenty strong enough among white voters that the strategy they're playing is going to fail. Badly.

The treatment of Romney and the way his supporters feel probably cost them more votes in the west than Palin garners among exurbanites. Romney could've handled being passed over for Lieberman or Ridge. Palin? No.

Finally, I had to laugh at one of the commentators, who claimed that the Democrats are divided and confused and the Republicans come out of their convention united. Admirable spin, but anyone who's seen what Penny Noonan, Ben Stein, Michael Savage, Charles Krauthammer (and the list goes on and on) have to say knows the Republican party is a total mess, easily the most divided and confused it's been in a decade. McCain did himself no favors tonight by appearing to attack both parties nearly equally.

By contrast, the Democrats came out of Denver quite united, and Palin has, if anything, increased that.

So, I'm going to expect a bounce. I just think it's an unusually misleading one. The real issue is state polling, and I'll be surprised if any state the Democrats have a reasonable chance of winning moves more than +1 or +2 McCain. Several will move towards Obama. The worst case for the Republicans is that they've inadvertently put Florida fully back into play. I think the cancellation of Palin's Tampa trip shows that they know that, and see her as a liability in Florida. If they've screwed up on Florida they probably just lost themselves the election, bounce or no bounce. And there's more reason to believe that they have then that they haven't.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:56:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Matthews just said that he expects (none / 0)

Dayum!  Great comment.


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:27:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

More Sarah "Boom-Boom" Palin, please!! (none / 0)


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:25:52 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

The speech made me very...tired and confused, like after a bowl of oatmeal spiked with Xanax.  His words are like sonic horse tranquilizers.


by tommyslax on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:27:04 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 2)

I'm going to make up a "I survived McCain's RNC speech" T-shirt.

But, my goodness, it was tough at points trying to pay attention.

For the first time in the last two weeks, I actually put my head down and started to nod off during a speech.


by TCQuad on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:38:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

good and bad (none / 0)

Terrible policies, can't stand the party-  um... didn't hate the speech.  Thought it was well delivered and sincere- I expect he gets a good bump from this.

Honestly, the first time I ever listened to him speak (I've worked really hard to avoid it).


by easyE on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:27:16 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

Democrats won the evening.  If we're talking about change by the end of the night, i don't know how the repubs will win.  This is the  first time since 96 that the political discussion is being led by the democrats.


by asdf on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:29:06 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

Didn't watch McBush. But I did see Olbermann apologize beforehand for his network showing the exploitative 9/11 video in its entirety. He was holding back tears at the thought of his friends who died there.

When it hits Youtube we'll surely see it posted here.


by ObamaOrBust on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:29:25 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

To get himself separated from Bush, he threw all other Republicans under the bus.

I'd be shocked if the DSCC didn't pull out a "John McCain says that Washington changed the Republicans" ad. It'd play well in red states, but could also be a selling point in campaigns where the incumbent is already being attacked for other inadequacies (Liddy Dole).

Successful enough (low bar) that I think Obama will release fundraising news soon (assuming it's a big number) to steal the news cycle.

The speech will also be sued by the makers of Ambien for infringing on their sleep aid patent, but there were 30 second clips that will be consistently replayed that were tolerable enough, so most people won't realize how slow it was.


by TCQuad on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:29:37 PM EST

Why hasn't Obama released fund raising numbers? (none / 0)

McCain already did.  Why not Obama?  

I'm getting worried.  Palin brought in $12 million in 72 hours.  Obama not releasing his amounts is worrisome.


by SueBee on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:00:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Why hasn't Obama released fund raising numbers? (none / 0)

Obama has raised $10 million since last night.


by jmnyc on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:33:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why hasn't Obama ... (none / 0)

Your "worries" are getting repetitive.  Thank you for your concern.


by lamh3176 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:56:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Public money (none / 0)

McCain-Palin are on public financing now. All new money goes to the RNC, which raised $1 million since last night.

Obama, on the other hand, raised $10 million in a day.


by elrod on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:00:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

blunts the energy (none / 0)

who knows what the polls will say, but what it felt like was a big fat exhale compared to the energy from yesterday. If this were the 4x100 relay, I would say Sarah ran the third leg in a record split time, caught the leading team, and handed the baton to the anchor, who ran the worst 100 meters of his life.  But I probably watched too much olympics last month.


by snowback on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:29:45 PM EST

Re: blunts the energy (none / 0)

Caught the leader... not a chance.  Closed the gap... yes.


by yitbos96bb on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:35:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

I tried like hell to pay attention to the speech. I failed. He lost me in minutes. Not because of the content or my bias. He's just painfully dull. I was, however, amused by the pasty old guy in the leisure suit who was holding a sign that read, "THE MAVRICK." Buy a vowel, Ralph Furley. He pretty much said it all for me.  


by watchgeek868 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:30:08 PM EST

A So So Speech (none / 0)

Somewhat umderwhelming, especially after Palin's speech. Being upstaged by the VP nominee could present problems for him down the line.

He did speak about economics, but I don't know what he said because he lost me for that moment. However, I did think that near the end of the speech, where he told his POW story, may have been effective for those who were hearing his story for the first time. For me, the story has become tiresome. Yes, you suffered alot as a POW, but what are you going to do to help the economy and the people who are suffering, besides cutting taxes for the rich?


Dizzy Zzyzzy
by Zzyzzy on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:31:34 PM EST

Re: A So So Speech (2.00 / 1)

Could this be a bizarro reversal of the Dukakis/Bentsen ticket?


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:36:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Only Bentsen didnt' wear F-ME pumps (none / 0)

...atleast not that I know of.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:54:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Please reconsider sir (none / 0)

This is like the fourth of fifth pretty obnoxious comment you have made about Palin.

Why?

Why here?


"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC
by Trond Jacobsen on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:06:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: don't reconsider sir (2.00 / 1)

Klondike Barbie is a joke and should be treated as such.  I'm with you, Al.  Somewhere William Miller is smiling ... he's no longer the stupidest VP pick ever.  Eclipsed by the Wasilla Snowbillies.  


by Tangie3 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:16:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

shhhh (none / 0)

miller's daughter is Stephanie Miller - the comedian and radio host.  She's on our side.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:39:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please reconsider sir (none / 0)

I agree. I know you (Al) are not a troll. Don't act like one, and don't feed the real trolls.

To borrow your choice of letters, Sarah Palin's policy views will F up this country. That's the message on her. Anything else having to do with F's, with her attire, family, looks, beauty-contest status, etc, don't belong here.

We lose getting into that debate. We win when we point out that, on virtually every issue, McCain = Bush (conceding that he doesn't, on a few, but on virtually every one of those his position is just the same as Obama's, so he gains no points), that he's sold out everything that made him a maverick, and that both of them are entirely out of touch with America -- in two different ways, yet. When mentioning Palin at all, we win when we point out that she has no credibility as a reformer or a maverick, extremely out-of-the-mainstream social views, and obvious ethical issues.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:39:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Saul Alinsky (none / 0)

Hillary wrote her Senior thesis on Alinsky, and he advocated the use of mockery at all times.

I didn't bring up heels, it was the right wing Associated Press's breathless report on last nite's speech

"..the first-term Alaska governor rocked the GOP convention with a star-turning performance, Wielding a stiletto and a smile."

Even Karl Rove would agree with his polar opposite, Alinsky, and use mockery to turn an asset into a liability.

After all, that's what they've done to Hillary, these past 16 years.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:51:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Saul Alinsky (2.00 / 2)

Here's the deal: mockery is great. Mockery is wonderful. I'm a great fan of mockery.

Mocking her because she's a she, or being gender-specific issues and terms for your mockery, is not political savvy. It's opening you up to an obvious counterattack. And it's counterproductive.

Mock her on the Bridge To Nowhere -- enormous mockery potential. Mock her on what a great reformer she is, with her earmarks and political-insider deals and ethics violations. Mock her for being so out of touch that she has no idea what a community organizer does. Mock her for not knowing what the VP does. Mock her for thinking the economy is great because she lives in the one state that benefits enormously from high oil prices. Mock her for her support of Ted Stevens.

The list goes on and on.

But don't mock her clothing or her hair or her looks. And if you want to know why, look at your own point on Hillary. Look how effective that gender-based mockery was against Hillary -- wow, it created a legion of identity voters who ignored any real arguments against Hillary because they perceived every attack to be shallow mockery.

Real mockery mocks something worthwhile to mock.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:52:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Only Bentsen didnt' wear F-ME pumps (none / 0)

Are you Al Rodgers or Al Goldstein. C'mon... meanwhile, what happened to Colin Powell's endorsement? When did you hear it was coming?


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:35:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is a rough audience (none / 0)

I mean, there are plenty of sex-positive feminists like Susie Bright who use such terms and language.  

After all, I didn't come up with the phrase, it pre-dates me.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:42:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Charles Krauthammer: "Strange speech, strange (none / 0)

convention, strange week..."


by louisprandtl on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:32:33 PM EST

The Neo-Con freaked out over palin (none / 0)

in part, cuz they lobbied hard for Lieberman, and in part, cuz Palin is Pat Buchanan supporter (isolationist).


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:36:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

possible..but Rove was fighting the neocon (none / 0)

lobby then trying to get Loserman off the ticket...


by louisprandtl on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:43:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

almost every neo-con dumped on Palin (none / 0)

with the exception of Kristol and Brooks, every neo-con threw a fit, most notably Ben stein, in that CNN-youtube clip.

From their perspective (wilsonian interventionist), Buchananites (isolationists) are the enemy.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:52:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bush's speech writer just trashed the speech (none / 0)

Michael Gerson just trashed the speech on MSNBC.

Yikes!


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:35:38 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

"The first pork-barrel earmark that comes across my desk, I will veto it, and you will know their names!"

Oh, those horrible, evil earmarks.  Gee, I wonder what mooseburger-eating governor has benefited from earmarks more than any governor in the United States?  I'll give you a hint: it rhymes with "Failin'."


by JK47 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:36:39 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

David Gergen said that the POW story was nice, but said that it was otherwise vague and ineffective.


Conservatism is nothing but a bad laissez-fairey tale
by neko608 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:37:07 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

Meh. The POW story and cheesedick military references make me want crawl into a hole and break my own arms just so I can feel SOMETHING. It's just tedious.


by watchgeek868 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:41:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

If Americans elected war heroes, McGovern, Dole, and Kerry would have been presidents. You'd think astute politicos would have figured that out by now.


by ObamaOrBust on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:27:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What about Reagan? (none / 0)

He was in "Hellcats of the Navy" and probably a couple of other war movies. That counts, right?

For a more serious response, I think it is fair to say GHW Bush served with distinction. Naval aviator, 58 combat missions, received the Distinguished Flying Cross, three Air Medals, and the Presidential Unit Citation.

(No, I didn't memorize that. Wikipedia is great!)

But your larger point is correct. Post Clinton, and W Bush, military service (or the lack of it) no longer seems to be a major consideration in Presidential elections.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:22:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

Wow, I finally agree with Gerson on something ... it was a terrible speech.  Very poorly written and constructed ... my God, you have to put some rousing stuff up front to give the speaker some confidence.  I nearly fell asleep 15 minutes into that ... and it never really got better.  No specifics, no contrast.  A complete waste of 45 minutes.


by Dan Conley on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:37:57 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

I assume that Jerome is off his ledge now. That was a hideously bad speech on so many levels. Yes its possible that it played better out in America than it did in the hall but David Gergen ripped him a new one on adopting tired Republican economic policies that got us into the mess we are in (I am paraphrasing what he said).

I also couldn't believe the green screen after all the talk of his last green speech after the primaries. It was a technical malfunction you could tell but funny as hell.

If the majority of people in the country looks at this choice and says this ticket (McCain-Palin) is who we need to lead us into the meat of the 21st Century I will eat my hat.

(Jeffrey Toobin just called it the worst speech by a nominee since 1980!)


by wasder on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:39:31 PM EST

no way (none / 0)

it was as boring as it gets.

also, the stage craft was horrible.

He was also following Palin, which raised expectations he could never meet.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:45:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What ledge? (none / 0)

If Obama loses he can tell us all how smart he is ... over and over.


by Tangie3 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:17:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Is Hillary threaten by Palin? (none / 0)

Sounds like Hill is threaten by the attention by lavished on Palin by the likes of Jerome.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:42:40 PM EST

Re: Is Hillary threaten by Palin? (none / 0)

Iron my shirt Al.


by dtaylor2 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:01:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 2)

This convention was pretty lackluster, saved only by the attack dog speech by an unvetted VP candidate who is plagued with scandals.  Even Wednesday night was kind of a mixed bag in the big picture.

Monday: interrupted by Gustav, Bush and Cheney speeches mercifully cancelled, Cindy appears in dress apparently made out of gold and diamonds

Tuesday: Grandpa Fred rehashes the POW story, Joe Lieberman puts 'em to sleep

Wednesday: SARAH FUCKING PALIN!!!!

Thursday: McCain does his impression of a talking, breathing Ambien

FAIL.


by JK47 on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:42:50 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

That was a hands-down, horrible speech. The convention audience in the hall applauded and cheered because they had to do their part not because they were enthused.

It absolutely lacked any coherent thread, any line of argument as to why McCain wants to be president, and what he will do for ordinary Americans.

I thought Palin was fabulous, even though I completely disagree with her politics and policies.

McCain was a bore. He looked old and incompetent. He was the best advertisement against voting GOP.


by Coral on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:43:08 PM EST

Palin was polarizing (none / 0)

according to ABC News, the GOP raised $1 million in the past 24 hrs, but Obama raised nearly $10 million in the same time period.

She stuck her finger in our eye, and we responded by a factor of ten.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:48:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My dear friends, (none / 0)

wake up and smell your Depends.

McCain's epiphany in Hanoi:  Country first. But family first, not so much. He put personal ambition, vanity, and penis first.

What a marvelous ape!


I will wear my heart upon my sleeve For daws to peck at
by Iago on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:49:39 PM EST

Re: My dear friends, (none / 0)

please don't insult apes.


If yer after gettin the honey, then you don't go killing all the bees.
by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:33:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

Dude that was weak.


by nzubechukwu on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:54:25 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

Mccain's speech would be more effective than Palin's in my judgement .

It wasn't delivered with precision and wasn't pitch perfect like Palin's , wasn't even close but it had a lot of clarity , character and honesty to it .

Especially the way he told his experiences in war and peace.

The whole convention was about the biography and character of John Mccain and they are hoping once again that trumps weakness on issues .

It just might work..


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:55:23 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

I actually fell asleep during his speech.  Got woke up by girlfriend asking me why he sounded like he was retiring.

Its all in the eye of the beholder, and I have accepted you and I won't usually see things the same.


by Xris on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:01:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

It certainly worked for President Kerry.


by bruh3 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:11:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's funny (none / 0)

I knew he would suck, and I expected to dislike the delivery...but I thought he'd be believable. Surprisingly, it was one of the most insincere-sounding speeches of the convention.

The fake smile...he should just keep a straight face, a fake smile in America means you just paid too much.


by Neef on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:39:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

Do you watch "Saving Private Ryan" a lot?


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:37:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

I think that can work in a time when things are going well and the country just wants "steady as she goes". But in case McCain hasn't noticed, there's an economic crisis going on right now - Wall Street nosedived again yesterday on the back of a sharp uptick in unemployment numbers.

In these circumstances:
a) the governing party is liable to get kicked;
b) people want the president to be more energetic and activist and have a plan to improve the situation

I don't think McCain's interesting bio is going to be enough this year. He looks like an old man without an idea of how to deal with the country's problems.


by al1 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:56:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

but will it get the kids off his lawn?


Being Normal is for the Mediocre.
by Doug Tuttle on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:56:16 PM EST

I agree with John McCain (none / 0)

I agree fully and I will shout at the top of my voice with all all my power that
``CHANGE IS COMING TO AMERICA''

And that change is coming from a senator of 4 yrs not a Senator for 25 yrs who still thinks that we are fighting the Vietnam war.

I hope you will be around to see what REAL CHANGE means.


by ann0nymous on Thu Sep 04, 2008 at 11:57:50 PM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

Did anyone see the video shown at the Convention showing the plane hitting the tower?


"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:06:44 AM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

No, they really did that?  I still can't look at those pictures, they are like looking at the face of a loved one who has since died, pure pain.  I'm not sure what they think they can get out of that.


by mady on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:10:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

Olbermann apologized on behalf of MSNBC for showing it. I never saw anything like that.


by ObamaOrBust on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:38:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

John Bush (2.00 / 1)

A friendly recommendation to Obama campaign. They should just ask every surrogate of theirs to refer John McCain as John Bush in every interview. Take a leaf out of Fox and just drill it into everybody's head.

Like when they come on TV tomorrow morning --

Q--So what did you think of speech yesterday night?

A--John Bush is an admirable man and his passage of how the torture broke him was very moving. But the election is really about how to fix the broken economy that Bush has given us for 8 yrs. John bush is promising to continue the same policies. Do we really want the same old policies?


by ann0nymous on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:21:45 AM EST

Yes -- 100% John Bush, 100% of the time (none / 0)

Absolutely.  More broadly, goal moving forward needs to be 100% about top of the ticket, his similarity to Bush and the Bush record.

It's quite entertaining how the pundits are now going on and on about how this was Palin's convention.

Narrative, whether even accurate of not, needs to be allowed to build of just how much spectacularly better Palin's speech was to McCain's.

Hopefully, a deepening meme of Palin as political megastar will ballon up expectations going into the VP debate, just in time for Biden to pop.


by YuedoTiko on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:54:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

thanks for the idea! (none / 0)

I just went out and bought some blue raspberry popsicles.  Yum!


Our Moment Is Now
by mboehm on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:27:40 AM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

I saw a few yawns on tv. I think this will be the first time where the VP nomination has higher ratings than the POTUS nominee.


by NJDEM1 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:47:38 AM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

It's seems to me that one unspoken consequence of McCain choosing Palin for VP, aside from the judgment issue, is that one of the other choices in picking a running mate is that the VP choice should not upstage the top of the ticket.  As everyone is saying, "A Star Is Born", by picking Palin, McCain has energized the base, but not for the McCain candidacy, but for the Palin candidacy.  Essentially, it seems to me that McCain while so blinded by wanting to beat Obama, chose a candidate, much like Obama, who has more charisma and oratory skills than he himself does.  Even in his speech tonight, while you and others I guess loved many of the bipartisanship parts of the speech, it seemed to me that the delegates in the hall, were not as impressed or enthusiatic, until Palin showed up.  Even during Cindy McCain's remarks, most of her lines fell flat, until she mentioned Gov Palin (I won't even get into how much less warmly Cindy McCain came off compared to Michelle Obama).

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if in time until the election in November to see Sara Palin talking to huge crowds, and McCain still struggling to find seat holders.  Basically, McCain has released a monster flame in Sara Palin, which it seems to me has the potential not really blunt Obama's star power, but will completely engulf McCain's.


by lamh3176 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 12:59:38 AM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

So, in less than a week, Sarah Palin has gone from complete nobody to the biggest celebrity in America, from the worst VP pick of all time to the savior of the Republican party and from a giant albatross around McCain's neck to completely outshining McCain at his own convention.  

She's never going to be more popular than she is right now.  Some of the scandals swirling around her have real meat to them.  Forget about BabyGate-- she's going to regret putting that "bridge to nowhere" reference in her speech and she's going to regret all the earmark handouts she's gotten as governor of Alaska.  

The John Edwards saga may have a real silver lining-- it gave the National Enquirer some credibility.  Let's see if the Enquirer runs with this story about Palin having an extra-marital affair.  If they do, expect it to dominate the news, and it's not so easy to just dismiss the National Enquirer anymore.  Then there's TrooperGate, the book-banning scandal... It shouldn't be too hard to paint this woman as an out-of-touch extremist wingnut, because that's exactly what she is.  

What's the difference between George W. Bush and Sarah Palin?

Lipstick.


by JK47 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 01:50:58 AM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (2.00 / 1)

Speaking of the green background (along with the blue background for a good deal of time), he's just BEGGING to get keyed.  By that, I'm talking about color keying, in which anyone with a few minutes training in any video editing software could show McCain speaking in front of Disneyland, Bob's Big Boy, or the pyramids.  I've spent a great deal of time learning rotoscoping/compositing/keying techniques, and the very first thing I noticed was that perfect green background.  It's actually very difficult to get a greenscreen that nice looking.

Anyway, I figured I'd post a word cloud of McCain's speech.  "Fight", "fought", "change", and "work" were some of the most common words this time around (aside from the obvious gimme words), so it's no real surprise there.  He seems to be taking the route of his ability to buck the status quo, which should give Obama some firepower considering McCain's propensity to vote with Bush.  Anyway, word cloud.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 02:03:41 AM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

Thanks purplestuff - I loves me some word clouds!


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:45:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

Haha no problem!  I saw your post last night, and I'm actually in the process of putting together a piece covering the themes of both conventions as defined by their most common word usage.  Pretty repetitive process, but it's actually really interesting (to me, at least) to break speeches down to their fundamentals.  Anyway, it's nice to know that someone else appreciates a good word cloud now and then.. haha.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:04:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Some observations on the small stuff (2.00 / 2)

I watch for the little details.

The Repub convention was the flattest they have thrown for as far as my memory goes back. The house was only 2/3 full on the main deck, and the gallery was occupied by more floodlights than people. The stage was too far from the crowd, so all the long shots caught the sparse crowd every time.
When McCain had the stage built, in actuality it was done to make the house look better- the long camera shots caught more people than empty seats, and it helped fill the gallery more, but they couldn't be seen through the lights. Maybe it worked for the audience, but not on tv.

That huge screen made the speakers look like urgent mice on stage- it was overwhelmingly large, and that perpetually waving flag background must have induced seasickness from the looks of the crowd.

All the speakers meant to light the fire for Palin flopped.

Thompson really needed a drink of water- there was as much throat clearing as speaking.
Mitt was obiously trying to do some positioning for 2012, but it wasn't working. He kept saying 'Thank You' long after his tepid intro applause stopped.
Guilani was a little better, but he had nothing to hope for, so why not?
Huckabee's wit was there, but he was flatter than he was in the primaries.

Palin brung it, but she sounded very rehearsed, and she was very tense. She growled several times at the first, and clamped her lips tightly shut at the end of every sentence... I think that when we see her on the trail, she will have a runaway mouth, as she did when we saw her speak for the first time after McCain's announcement. She's smart, but I don't think her handlers will be able to give her enough catch-up to keep the hold on her initial interest. I expect she'll go back to speaking like a hockey mom.

McCain looked and sounded like a once powerful car that now has 200,000 miles on it and the suspension is gone. He's an old pale shadow of his former self, and he'll tucker out again once he hits the trail. It was sad that he had to apologize for the Repub mess, but I think he's now leader of the party... Bush lost his final chance at some redemption from his own.

My last impression was the contrast between the two conventions. The Democrats' excitement grew and grew, culminating in that huge stadium crowd. Palin gave the Republicans some heart, but after listening to McCain and the balloons finally dropped, they were ready to leave and turn out the lights. At the end, they were as dispirited as they were in the beginning.

If the Repubs get a bounce, it's not going to stick. Too many people want positive change, not more mud. And whatever bounce comes won't be as big as Obama's was.


Take it easy, but take it
by banjomike on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:20:45 AM EST

Couldn't resist (none / 0)

In The Caucus blog that Jonathan linked in the main entry, I ran across this unfortunate turn of phrase:

For sheer excitement, he was outshined by his Number Two.

I guess I am still a 7-year-old when it comes to scatological humor. I ROTFL.


Your attempt to change the subject to "the issues" is irrelevant.
by itsthemedia on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 03:57:53 AM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

Dang. In talking about the small stuff, I missed one- an important one.
Those big screen fireworks. They were loud, because the hall's p.a. was turned up, but they were just a projection. A flat screen projection, and the crowd wasn't impressed.

The fireworks in the stadium after Obama's speech were the real deal. They were quiter because they were actully up in the air when they went off. The crowd there just kept hollering.

The old lady Repubs didn't wear nearly as many silly hats this year as in the past. Old lady's silly hats always add to the color and gaiety of it all. I saw plenty of them in Denver.

I also didn't see any young Repub rockettes this time- they always used to have a big line of them, kicking out the lights. Where were all the kids?

I also didn't get around to the sum of all this:
The Republican convention had an odd disconnect going on everywhere. Like the fireworks, there was a lingering aftertaste of phoney baloney to it all. Everyone there sensed it andthere  was an uneasy feeling that drifted out of my tv screen.

To me, it simply looked like a severe case of communal flop sweat. They knew they had a lot to answer for, and it showed.


Take it easy, but take it
by banjomike on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 04:35:56 AM EST

Here I am thinking (none / 0)

the speech tanked, but when I called and e-mailed home to see how people responded, most say he nailed it and he even changed a few votes back.

People are so easy to please.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 10:17:05 AM EST

Re: Post-McCain Speech Thread (none / 0)

Blogging from Delaware County, PA

I work in one of Pennsylvania's most strident working class union GOP strongholds.  

To me, the weirdest part of John McCain's speech is what he did not mention about being a POW

Coming back to Hawaii(I was a kid and my family was there to greet him --- in fact my Mother was friends with his first wife and asked to be there for her while McCain was beinf returned from Hanoi) amid cheers --- getting to the mainland amid jeers

Huge transitional problems.  McCain would know more about them but he refused to retire from  military service and insisting on staying in the Navy to get full benefits.

His drinking and carousing and general scary ass sh*t while he was Navy Liaison in DC was the stuff of legend (it helps to have a family business where your Dad and Grandad were both Navy Admirals) ---- compare that to POWs I knew who got arrested for drugs, assault, PTSD type behavior and were largely dumped on by the system and given little more than a shrug from the communities where they lived.

It also helps that once you are elected --- no one mentions teh fact that you regularly show signs of PTSD, that you had panic attacks while in the House and Senate and that despite being told like 500 times not to --- you kept attempting to start fires in your Senate Office Fireplace.

It seems if you want the courageous label for being a POW --- you must accept teh scarred individual tage as well ---- I've met a lot of POWs over the years --- they are all messed up in the head

Maybe the MSM will do a story


by kmwray on Fri Sep 05, 2008 at 08:15:18 PM EST


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