MyDD :: Looking through the votes

Looking through the votes

by Jerome Armstrong, Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:15:21 PM EST

Here's the Roll Call. It seems that in the close House races that I've followed nationally, the incumbent is voting no. And now, anyone voting "yes" will see the albatross of this bill grow.

Update [2008-9-29 16:15:21 by Jerome Armstrong]: Yep, via 538, 30 of the 38 on the toss-up or lean list at SSP voted against the bill. Add the Democrat Hodes, in NH, and both Democrats Udall's that are running for the Senate voting "no" along with Republican Pearce in NM. Then, going out a bit, among the 18 Republicans listed as "likely" 16 of them voted no. Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of principled Representatives voting "no" but its no mistake that, overwhelmingly, those in a competitive election are also voting against the bailout.

Tags: 2008 (all tags)

Permalink :: 46 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: Looking through the votes (2.00 / 0)

I think Porter (NV-03) and Shays (CT-04) voted yes. McNerney (CA-11) voted yes on the Democratic side, but his opponent is currently being investigated for wrong-doing out here in CA.

by RandyMI on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 03:48:31 PM EST

Could this boomerang on Obama (none / 0)

Could it boomerang on Pelosi and our party in general?

I think Obama has thought, like most people, incl. myself that cooler heads would previal and a bailout plan would be passed by the end of this week. This has allowed him to stay above it all on the campaign trail, while also lobbing the politcal grenages at McCain.

Now what if there is no bailout and we see a big bank failure in the next week? How do you stay above that? Will soaring speeches play as well in economic gloom, or might straight talk, tough talk or whatever make a comeback?

I dunno.

What happens to Pelosi who some are now blaming for making a partisan left turn this morning which has some saying cost as many as a dozen GOP votes?

What happens to Democrats should Congress wrap and lawmakers head home and the crisis continues to unfold? What if, as asked above, what if another shoe drops a week from now and lawmakers are back home in their districts campaigning?

by RichardFlatts on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 03:49:20 PM EST

Tweety calls bullsh*t on this (2.00 / 0)

He was livid on this point. He thinks it is a bunch of bullshit that the GOP had 12 votes changed because they got mad at Pelosi. He is laying this squarely at the feet of John McCain who could not even get 50% of the GOP to support the bill.

The Democrats got their 50% of the votes but the GOP did not.

by gavoter on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 03:59:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tweety calls bullsh*t on this (none / 0)

Still, we could have passed this oursevles. There are plenty of safe Dems who could have voted yes.

by Mayor McCheese on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:03:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah but they stood on principle (none / 0)

this bill wasn't progressive, so the Democrats, for once, stood on principle and didn't vote for it because of the bailouts for banking execs.

For once they stood on principle. Will they get burned by it? Who knows. If they do, the blogsphere shares blame for it. We're the ones who opposed this thing.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:05:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah but they stood on principle (none / 0)

What principle, exactlt? And many of those who voted no aren't exactly progressive (Lynch, Peterson, Altmire, Carney, Stupak)

by Mayor McCheese on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:08:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah but they stood on principle (none / 0)

They have statewide ambitions and don't want it on their record.

by Jerome Armstrong on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:18:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah but they stood on principle (none / 0)

John Lewis voted no. I can't believe he thinks he has statewide ambitions. So did Al Green and Sheila Jackson Lee. I can't believe its all thinking about running for governor or senator someday.

by Mayor McCheese on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:32:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dunno (none / 0)

the principle of not giving handouts to the ones who caused this mess I guess.

It's funny, I've been trying to figure out why the blogsphere was so opposed to this. I assumed it was for the same reason I have reservations...the fact that Paulson gets to decide what he does with the money with no questions asked...but it just seems to me the underlying reason was to oppose Bush.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:21:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Dunno (none / 0)

Paulsen's gone in four months. This is about more than Paulsen.

by Mayor McCheese on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:30:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe (none / 0)

maybe this was the GOP running from Bush...the Democrats see no need to run from Bush. When they work with Bush (to our chagrin), they look bipartisan.

Anyway, the election and inaguration can't happen soon enough.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:40:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe (none / 0)

On that point I agree with you, but you have to wonder whether even that will make that much difference.

by Mayor McCheese on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:54:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kucinich voted against it (none / 0)

his seat is pretty safe; same with my own Congresswoman, Betty Sutton. IMHO, they're standing on principle, holding out for a deal that benefits the middle class, working folks.

Both also have strong ties to organized labor, not sure how important that is, but its worth noting. Perhaps unions see this as an opportunity to protect US jobs and bring more back from overseas.

by Betsy McCall on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:54:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kucinich voted against it (none / 0)

Middle class folks DO benefit from this deal, or at least would have had it passed. Failure to act is hurting millions of middle class americans.

by Mayor McCheese on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:54:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I trust his judgement (none / 0)

though I'm not always sure at the time why he's doing it. My guess is it has to do with jobs. Dennis isn't irresponsible, something's up.

by Betsy McCall on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 05:03:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dennis is quirky (none / 0)

Remmeber he voted against SCHIP at first.

I think they are standing on principle and can because they're safe and it's Ohio...the bailout is probably uber unpopular in blue parts of Ohio, but a more progressive bailout aimed at middle class and working class is not going to happen under this President. This may be the best we're gonna get until January, provided Obama wins.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 05:31:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Standing on principle (none / 0)

is the wisest course for the long run and voters seem to agree. There's no downside to pushing for a better bailout, except pressure from lobbyists and campaign donors. Surely Dems can find some courage to stand up to them.

by Betsy McCall on Tue Sep 30, 2008 at 08:35:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

MSNBC is preaching to the choir at this point (none / 0)

I mean is there any doubt about Matthews, or Shusters, or Olbermann's alliances, and what they are pushing?

I am talking about a backlash among voters outside of D.C. television studios.

Blaming McCain or Obama for a vote outcome in the House is pretty dumb anyway. Last I checked they serve in the Senate.

by RichardFlatts on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:10:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: MSNBC is preaching to the choir at this point (none / 0)

If there is to be any backlash, logically it would be laid at the feet of Repubs and Bush since he couldn't get them to vote for this bill. On the other hand I think the House in general will be blamed and viewed collectively as bums. This isn't over though and a new plan/vote will be pushed again. I don't really care about partisan quips on this, but it seems McCain is trying to force this on Obama by saying he is trying to score political points, which is clearly just hypocritical and nonsensical

by KLRinLA on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:46:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could this boomerang on Obama (none / 0)

Intraders don't think so. McCain's numbers are plummeting faster than the DOW. He's at 38.1% and Obama is at 61% (yes, I know, they don't add up to 100)

Florida has just turned blue on the Intrade map.

Problem for McCain is that he "took charge" of this bill and promised to get it through.. instead, he came in, after there was an agreement, and blew it up!

This morning he was all over himself how HE alone had the leadership to pass this bill...

Now, it's blown up in his face. If he can't even lead his own party, how can he lead the country?

"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"

by LordMike on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:26:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lovin' it (2.00 / 1)

McCain and GOP strategists are looking very bad to voters right now.

Who knows why they've bungled it so badly? Maybe they just miscalculated the ire of voters and the growing immunity to GOP scare tactics and propaganda.

I spent yesterday canvassing a GOP neighborhood. Those folks aren't happy, they don't like McCain but they don't want to talk about it. A few will switch to Obama (mostly women voters) but the rest are so disillusioned w/ McCain they don't know what to do. Hopefully they'll stay home on election day.

by Betsy McCall on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:58:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could this boomerang on Obama (2.00 / 2)

I agree that this is egg on McCain's face, especially after calling the press conference this morning. He struted around talking about how his leadership was getting this to pass, then over 67% of his party votes against it/him.

And I find it amazing that the GOP excuse now is that Nancy Pelosi hurt their feelings. My God, are these people that childish that they voted against a bill they otherwise supported because their feelings were hurt? What kind of leadership is that?

Tomorrow is the last day of the quarter, so if the market drops another 5-7% just wait to see how angry you get when you look at your latest 401(k) statement.

by gavoter on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 05:12:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could this boomerang on Obama (2.00 / 1)

My girfriend and I agreed, when our 401Ks comes this time, we are putting it in the recycling without opening it.

We have a nice vacation coming up, why spoil it?

We can open the one after that and then start drinking heavily.

Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin and Joe the Plumber...The Triad of Republican Irrelevancy.

by WashStateBlue on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 06:00:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looking through the votes (2.00 / 4)

I hate to hijack this but you're not reachable by email. I'm having every post I've ever written zeroed out by "billiehero". I do not know who this person is. It seems he got an account, about five people mojo'd him into tr status (although it only shows up as one mojo - weird), and now he's going on an hr tear.

When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?

by Jess81 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 03:53:51 PM EST

Re: Looking through the votes (2.00 / 0)

Asshole. I'll make a mojo run for you.

I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt

by fogiv on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 03:56:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looking through the votes (2.00 / 2)

Thanks.

He's a rankles clone. Check out who's reccing him up. The same guy that calls Clinton supporters racists and Obama supporters cultists when he thinks no one remembers what he said last week.

When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?

by Jess81 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:05:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looking through the votes (2.00 / 0)

Admins must of zapped the acct already. Not a "billiehero" comment to be found.

I had the same thing happen to me once(though not nearly as extensively), and Jerome went through and removed all the TRs. I expect they'll do the same for you.

I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt

by fogiv on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:19:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looking through the votes (2.00 / 2)

Well, looks like those ratings are gone now. I finished up a de-hiding-mojo-ification of the affected comments and, by the last few, the ratings were up at 2.

by TCQuad on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:21:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looking through the votes (2.00 / 1)

I could use some help, too. I've apparently landed on the sockpuppet hitlist.

"This victory alone is not the change we seek -- it is only the chance for us to make that change." -- Nov. 4, 2008

by BobzCat on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 07:08:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looking through the votes (2.00 / 1)

He did the same thing to me. I rescued your comments out of HC this morning, and he responded by zapping most of my comment history. I see those ratings were removed from your history; unfortunately, I think all of his droppings remain on mine.

It was the crew of taleofwoe/reebus/lemon716/Stsomethingoro ther/and a few more that were uprating a new account, got TU for it, and then went after you and me. I sent Todd a note about it. Glad to see you got rescued. I hope those clowns are now officially toast, but somehow, I doubt it.

"This victory alone is not the change we seek -- it is only the chance for us to make that change." -- Nov. 4, 2008

by BobzCat on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 05:34:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looking through the votes (none / 0)

Based on the way it seems to playing so far, the Republicans walked away from the deal and the market tanked.

by RandyMI on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:03:55 PM EST

Cleaver, D-Kansas City, and (none / 0)

Clay, D-St. Louis, both voted NO...and theirs are two of the safest Democratic seats in the nation, and they often side with leadership. This was one wildly unpopular measure. Was the Black Caucus against it?

by Arthurkc on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:10:47 PM EST

Re: Cleaver, D-Kansas City, and (none / 0)

Good question. Maybe it was the ACORN attack.

by Jerome Armstrong on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 07:00:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looking through the votes (none / 0)

And now, anyone voting "yes" will see the albatross of this bill grow.

Bad for Democrats then.

by Drummond on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:15:14 PM EST

Aw, man, Jerome. (2.00 / 1)

I used to have one of those when I was a kid! It looks stupid compared to today's videogames, but it was a hell of a lot of fun for 45 years ago.

by Dumbo on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:17:36 PM EST

"Principled Representatives"? (none / 0)

Is that like "jumbo shrimp"?

The myopia is incredible today. Paulson, himself, said it would be two or three weeks before they'd even be up and running, and that was IF the bill was passed today.

I find it completely ironic that all these folks that accused me and others of claiming the sky was falling--including those asses on Wall St.--over the past few months of being total hypocrites today.

God for-freakin'-bid we should spend a few more days working out a better-thought-out plan!?!?!?

by bobswern on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:21:39 PM EST

I agree (none / 0)

but time is of the essence here. Something has to be done this week.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:23:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looking through the votes (none / 0)

Vote rescheduled in the House for Thursday. My guess is a 650 point tanking of the Dow will be enough to get some people off the fence.

Congress forgot one thing today. Everyone expected a bailout plan to pass. Pols have been saying one will pass. McCain, Obama, all have said they thought a deal would pass. Obama said so again today.

Markets don't like surprises. They react badly to them. If they couldn't deliver a deal, they shouldn't have made a deal seem so near. This really blew up in everyone's face today (everyone -- I am being bi-partisan here, Bush, Boehner, Reid, Pelosi, McCain, Obama, everybody).

by RichardFlatts on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:35:04 PM EST

Vote analysis - from NYTimes (none / 0)

Here's a pretty neat graphical representation of how the votes went down. Notice:

McCain - didn't deliver Arizona
Palin - didn't deliver Alaska

Make what you will of it.

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/washington/RO LLCALL.html?currentChamber=house&cur rentSession=2&currentCongress=110&am p;currentRoll=674

I might be crazy... but are you seeing what I'm seeing?

by mydailydrunk on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:42:35 PM EST

Re: Vote analysis - from NYTimes (none / 0)

Maybe it's because Arizona Republicans to not personally like McCain and Alaska Republicans personally do not like Palin.

by RandyMI on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:46:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looking through the votes (2.00 / 2)

I honselty don't feel good about what happened today. Unlike a lot of progressive bloggers, I do see grave consequences as a result of the credit freeze. That said, all Pelosi said last night was that the Republicans were responsible for getting us in this situation and it was their responsibility to find their votes to pass it. I will bet you the GOP tried to pull a fast one assuming the bill would pass and now that the Dow is down 700+ points, they realized ow badly they screwed up. But being Republicans what do they do? They whine that Nancy said bad things about Bush and their record. So childish.

by RandyMI on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 04:45:09 PM EST

Re: Looking through the votes (none / 0)

I agree. Doing nothing is not an option.

Paul Krugman, who I respect, thinks there is a real problem and that we have to address it. He was not thrilled with this bill but he thought the Dems did a pretty good job of getting major concessions like equity stakes in companies that participate. He called us a "banana republic" on his blog after the House defeated the proposal. Ouch.

In a former galaxy many eons ago, I worked on Capitol Hill and this reminds me of the 1990 Budget Bill. The leadership cut a deal with Bush I that was not acceptable to the rank and file Dems. The Rs, led by Newt, took a walk because it contained tax increases. The bill failed.

The Dem leadership went back to the rank and file and discussed what they wanted. Bush I gave in to more tax increases and smaller spending cuts and voila the bill passed.

My guess is this bill, like the 1990 budget bill, will move closer to what the Dems want since it is clear the Rs are going to walk anyway. That is how they are going to get 218.

by jmnyc on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 05:22:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looking through the votes (none / 0)

Yeah, it's interesting. I live in Western Massachusetts, represented by Congressman Olver who is pretty much in his seat for as long as he wants it. He voted Yes.

On the other hand, Kirsten Gillibrand, across the border in a formerly very GOP county in NY (she won her first election because the current rep imploded in a horrible family scandal)where her seat will always be somewhat contested, voted no.

I don't think this is such an emergency that things have to be done with this kind of haste. I'm relieved this did not pass, but hope there is no poltical fallout against Obama (you never know where the twists and turns of this kind of situation will take you). There has to be a much better way of dealing with this situation (note, not crisis, at least not yet).

by mady on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 06:59:06 PM EST

Pattern fits in W.Va. (none / 0)

The two Dem. Reps. with no opposition voted yea, the Republican Rep. Capito, with strong challenger Dem. Anne Barth in WV-02, voted against.

Visit West Virginia Blue

by WVaBlue on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 07:13:49 PM EST

Here's another way to look at the votes (none / 0)

Securities & Investment Sector: Top Recipients

Candidate Amount Voted
Emanuel, Rahm (D-IL) $600,500 Aye
Shays, Christopher (R-CT) $362,720 Aye
Rangel, Charles B (D-NY) $329,850 Aye
Paul, Ron (R-TX) $313,129 Nay
Allen, Tom (D-ME) $277,640 Aye
Gillibrand, Kirsten (D-NY)$269,050 Nay
Udall, Mark (D-CO) $249,568 Nay
Kirk, Mark (R-IL) $243,850 Aye
Kanjorski, Paul E (D-PA) $241,849 Aye
Bean, Melissa (D-IL) $207,100 Aye
Bachus, Spencer (R-AL) $206,900 Aye
Hoyer, Steny H (D-MD) $184,499 Aye
Cantor, Eric (R-VA) $176,800 Aye
Frank, Barney (D-MA) $176,400 Aye
Crowley, Joseph (D-NY) $171,550 Aye
Klein, Ron (D-FL) $166,700 Aye
Mahoney, Tim (D-FL) $166,040 Aye
Murphy, Chris (D-CT) $164,290 Aye
Murphy, Patrick J (D-PA) $154,750 Aye
Maloney, Carolyn B (D-NY) $154,325 Aye

by greenvtster on Mon Sep 29, 2008 at 07:46:12 PM EST

If Obama is on the side of the middle class (none / 0)

there's no backlash from them. They're the ones who are calling their legislators objecting to the current bailout plan and its massive transfer of wealth to the investor class.

If he's on the side of Wall Street and places their needs ahead of voters, he'll not do well.

by Betsy McCall on Tue Sep 30, 2008 at 08:51:24 PM EST

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