Bad 2009

What a way to wake up from the Bush debt coming due:

--raise the national debt ceiling to $11.3 trillion

--the Treasury Department to buy up to $700 billion in mortgage-related assets (roughly what the country has spent so far in direct costs on the Iraq war). "Democratic Congressional leaders have pledged to approve legislation by the end of this week."

-- the $85 billion government rescue of the insurance giant, American International Group.

--$200 billion to shore up the mortgage finance giants, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

A $1.2 Trillion deficit next year.

And there's probably more coming after the election too.



Display:


Pretty disgusting (none / 0)

I doubt a plan will be hashed out by the end of next week. Friday's happy bipartisan talk is going to get hit with a reality check. $800 billion is too much money to just write a blank check to Paulsen, I'm sorry.

I've heard that Dodd is opposed to a blank check, let's hope he takes a closer look at this crap. Hillary's statement on this fiasco is well worth reading.

And the Dems should think about sticking in a nice big fat tax increase for the rich to offset some of this cost. Higher estate taxes, higher income taxes for the top 5%, higher capital gains taxes.

And maybe a rule that you can't trade on the Dow Jones anymore if you don't pay corporate income tax in the U.S. You want an offshore shelter in the Caymans to avoid U.S. income tax? Well guess what, you are delisted from Dow Jones and Nasdaq.


by existenz on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 05:37:59 PM EST

So Obama on Friday articulated (none / 0)

his support for Paulsen's effort but did not artiuclate actual support for the plan?  As for McCain, his position is pretty much the same?


by Blazers Edge on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 05:49:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So Obama on Friday articulated (none / 0)

Neither the current President nor either major nominee have their heads wrapped around this situation in the fucking least.  Paulsen and Bernanke got together in a room, figured out a way to bail out the banking industry while increasing GOP influence of it.  Bush rubber stamped it, and McCain and Obama spouted off "me, toos".

Not surprising in the least, considering that none of them have had to struggle to pay any bill at any time in the last 20 years, if ever.


by SuperCameron on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 05:55:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So you are claiming that (none / 0)

Obama supports the plan?  I haven't seen a statement from him that indicates he supports the actual plan that is about to be put forward by Paulsen; my understanding is that he has only indicated his support for the "effort."


by Blazers Edge on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 06:16:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So you are claiming that (none / 0)

All I've seen is that both asked for more time to come up with a detailed response.


I come here for the lulz.
by username on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 06:49:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly (none / 0)

Obama basically agreed that we need to find a solution, but wanted to ensure that it contained protections for taxpayers and homeowners aka "Main Street".

This bailout plan has no such protections. Obama needs to read it closely, he needs to read Sebastian Mallaby's column in the WaPo, he needs to read Krugman, and he needs to come out strong against the current plan.

This crisis isn't as bad as they are saying. It sucks for plenty of Wall Street investment banks, who are probably crying over the phone to Paulsen and Bernanke, but they are overstating the severity in order to get lawmakers to hand over $700 billion. It's a scam, just like the Iraq War and the Patriot Act.

The blogosphere and Americans as a whole need to rise up against this. We're talking $1800 for every man, woman and child in America. It's ridiculous.


by existenz on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 01:05:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So Obama on Friday articulated (none / 0)

What the hell are you talking about? Obama would have been 27. He wasn't making so much money twenty years ago - or even ten years ago - that he wouldn't have to worry about bills.

If you know Obama's story, then you know that he knows good and damn well how hard it is to make a living. And he knows a hell of a lot more than Johnny McSame, who's been on the government payroll for all but five years of his life and has spent the latter part of it in multi-millionaire splendor.


by Spiffarino on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 08:55:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So Obama on Friday articulated (none / 0)

Laughable.

When Obama was 27, he was living on public subsidy at Harvard Law, along with support from his well-off family in Hawaii, along with whatever additional income he was earning at the time.  For those of us who had only one of those three at 27, that seems like a pretty good living.

In 1991, it's public record that Michelle Obama was earning 60,000 a year working for the city of Chicago.  That translates to 130,000 in 2008 dollars.  We also know that Barack was employed at the time, though his earnings at that time have not been divulged.  I have nothing against that.  But if you are struggling to make ends meet at that level of income it means one of two things--you have major medical expenses or you have run yourself to an unmanageable level of debt.  Student loans are incredibly manageable forms of debt.  If Barack and Michelle put themselves into 40,000 in credit card debt, that would explain why they were struggling to pay their bills for the next several years.

It's also public record that in 1993 the couple put down a 111,000 dollar down payment on a 277,000 dollar condo.  111,000 sounds like good money to me, but everyone has their own definition of struggling, I guess.

We know from public records that between 2000 and 2004 that the Obamas earned between 207,000 and 273,000 per year.  I don't believe for a second that the Obamas struggled to earn a living in 1998 and suddenly magicked into a 200k+ per year income two years later.

In that time, we also know they planted down another 330,000 for the downpayment on their current 1.65 million dollar home in 2005.  We also know that since his election to the Senate, Barack's income has exploded into the millions, and Michelle's salary has nearly doubled.

I don't disparage those who earn lots of money, as the Obamas clearly have for the last 15+ years.  If there is a discrepancy between Barack's story and the story that public records show to be the case, that's not my fault.  I don't disparage him for his version of the telling either, even if it is not particularly indicative of the other evidence available.  Barack is now a celebrity, entertainer, and author.  He has a market to please, and people like to hear about other people struggling.  That's how books and politicians get sold.  

What I won't do is lie to myself about who understands what and why.


by SuperCameron on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 11:41:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So Obama on Friday articulated (none / 0)

He lives in Chicago, douche. Check out the cost of living there versus Bumfuck, Idaho. I'm not saying he was poor, but he knows what it's like to pay a fucking bill and you said he didn't. His circumstances are nothing like have never been like John McCain's.


by Spiffarino on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 12:47:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So Obama on Friday articulated (none / 0)

So, are you arguing that it's tough to get by on six figures in Chicago, or that it's easy to save up 377K in Chicago?

I'll thank you not to get into the name calling.  I haven't insulted you, and there's no reason to insult me, especially when you've managed to pack misogyny, anti-smalltownism, and homophobia all into two short sentences.

Finally, I stated that Barack hasn't struggled to pay his bills in at least the last 20 years, if ever.  The income and asset records we have access to show this to be the case.  You have twisted my words into a meaning I did not state or imply, which also is not necessary.  I wish you a good night, and a happier outlook.

Cheers!


by SuperCameron on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 01:02:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You're an idiot (none / 0)

Equating Obama living off student loans and scholarships with John McCain, who was living on his wife's $100 million fortune, is ridiculous.


by existenz on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 01:07:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're an idiot (none / 0)

Name calling again.  I guess that's what you do when you have nothing of substance to contribute.


by SuperCameron on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 02:39:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So Obama on Friday articulated (none / 0)

You said Obama hadn't struggled to pay a bill in 20 years.

The fact of the matter is nobody but the Obamas and those closest to them could know if they ever struggled to pay a bill because it isn't part of the public record. So you assumed this because they made what appears on the surface to be a tidy income.

Maybe this small-town situation will help you understand the point better and simultaneously soothe your soft spot for folks in the kind of town I live in. A 3-bedroom house in Chicago went for an average price of $427,451 in 2004. A 3-bedroom house in the small town in NC where I live went for around $165,000 in the same year.

So yes, in fact I AM saying a six-figure salary in Chicago means you may have to struggle to pay a bill.

On a personal note, I have family in Southern California who make on average about twice what I make and barely get by. And now that their houses are worth about 40% less than they paid for them, they are also unable to obtain loans to help them out if they or their kids become sick. They live on the edge of bankruptcy on six figure incomes.

Finally, I apologize for my outburst. I wasn't really thinking of you personally when I shot that off, but rather the idea that somebody making six figures couldn't be struggling. Obviously the issue is a personal one for me. You were polite and you responded fairly cordially. I appreciate it.

BTW - If you think my reference to BF, Idaho was homophobic, you assume too much. I'll leave it at that.


by Spiffarino on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 10:01:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Get on message, Jerome (1.00 / 1)

The plans of both our Congressional leaders and our Presidential nominee are to run up the national credit card like a thirteen year old at the mall.  Posts like this one you put on the front page don't help us win.


by SuperCameron on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 05:49:59 PM EST

Winning isn't everything (none / 0)

You want to win and have the potential the United States defaults on it's debt, trashes the dollar and goes into hyperinflation?


NoSlaves.com | The Economic Populist
by Robert Oak on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 06:57:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Economic Populist (none / 0)

There is so much going on right now and we've been watching and writing up as much as we can.

I want to point to two posts.

The first, Take Action, is the actual text of the bill being proposed before Congress and it's outrageous.  It gives executive power with no further ability from Congress to intercede.  This bill must be stopped.

The second post, What the Hell Just Happened? gives a very concise overview of the recent bail out timeline, with graphs, specifics but yet explains so a layperson can follow what the hell is going on here.

This has been shock and awe, 2.0 folks and they are moving so quickly and hence the public cannot digest what they are really doing with their money!

(EP is a new community blog site, like myDD but devoted to all things econ.   If money is involved, we're interested in looking at it.   We have a lot of people who post on DK, myDD and the Netroots sites writing on EP, simply working to get more focus on the real stuff.  Follow the money is our motto!)


NoSlaves.com | The Economic Populist
by Robert Oak on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 06:09:18 PM EST

Re: Bad 2009 (none / 0)


The Presidency of Irresponsibility, 2001-2009.

by killjoy on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 06:21:09 PM EST

Re: Bad 2009 (none / 0)

Obama really has no choice but to support the plan; for that matter, we all have no real choice.  What Obama CAN do, however, is hammer home the fact that it is the Republican party's economic policies of tax cuts to the wealthy, a multibillion dollar deficit-financed war, and deregulation of corporate America that are responsible and say, as the first poster above does (I'm going slightly further), that the rich are the ones who have benefitted from the policies, and so they're the ones who need to shoulder a disproportionate part of the burden for the bailout through higher taxes, including a rescinsion of the moratorium on the estate tax.

Someone needs to grow some balls and point out that the middle and working class have been hammered for the benefit of the wealthy over the last 8 years, and we simply cannot afford to keep bailing out the wealthy when policies that benefit them continue to fail.


by slynch on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 06:25:33 PM EST

Re: Bad 2009 (none / 0)

I have to agree - just because the reasons we're in a hole involved basically highway robbery doesn't mean that we don't need to get out of the hole :(.

I feel like WInston Churchill - I don't like the plan one bit, but I like the alternatives even less.  I just hope Treasury renegotiates the mortgages instead of forecloses on everyone - we need to stop the free-fall.  I do hope they find a way to force the companies to sell these things at a deep discount - the problem results from the fact that the banks don't know if these mortgages are worthless or not, and I don't think they should be purchased at full value.

The commenter above who says that it isn't really that bad is delusional.  Unemployment in SoCal is 8% right now.  I'd love to be wherever he is that it isn't that bad.


by auronrenouille on Sun Sep 21, 2008 at 03:07:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bad 2009 (none / 0)

existenz said: "Friday's happy bipartisan talk is going to get hit with a reality check. $800 billion is too much money to just write a blank check to Paulsen, I'm sorry."

I'd like to think Dems in Congress have suddenly developed a spine, and in the middle of a close election no less, but there is no basis for believing that. The pressure is on: put your hands up and give us the money now or there will be a catastrophe and it will be your fault. It's another predictable cave to Republicans, with Dems perhaps being granted a token concession or two. This must be the biggest theft in world history, and in broad daylight, as they say. I was thinking it's like being mugged, but shock and awe is a good metaphor too. I didn't think they could rob us any more than they already have, but they always exceed our expectations.
The people who created the problem are going to fix it (for their own benefit of course), and they are already cheering on Wall Street.
 


by DeanOR on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 06:53:22 PM EST

Re: Bad 2009 (none / 0)

The choice we face now is an improving future with Barack or a future falling apart with the same failed economic theories of the last 8 years being implemented by McCain. I feel optimistic about our future if Barack wins considering the choice ahead of us.


by Graham1979 on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 07:03:44 PM EST

Re: Bad 2009 (none / 0)

Trying to lookj for a silver lining.... at least this will help the average American understand that the current state of financial crapola was brought to us by the GOP administration.  You know that if this had occurred after the election that they would have hung the blame for it on the new presidemt....at least the republicans would.


by tominstl on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 07:09:06 PM EST

Re: Bad 2009 (none / 0)

This reality makes it all the more important to elect Barack Obama and Joe Biden, and to get them a solid Congressional majority so we can take this country back from the greedy few who have tried so hard to claim it for themselves.


by Spiffarino on Sat Sep 20, 2008 at 08:58:43 PM EST


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