Under 50

Some reading for the sober over at Pollster.com: McCain Gains Not Limited to Red States, by Charles Franklin and 50 Days to Go and Obama Hits Back (Softly), by Steve Lombardo.

Candidate tracker: In the days since the conventions ended, Sept 5th, here's where the candidates have been the past 11 days:

Obama:  VA (2), NH (2), CO (2), MI, PA

Biden:  PA (3), NH (2), OH, MI, MO

McCain: FL (2), PA (2), CO, OH, VA, MO, NM, WI, MI, NH

Palin:  OH (2), CO (2), NV, PA, VA, MO, NM, WI, MI
And here's one other tracker, of the days each spent in '04 red or blue states:
2004     Red     Blue       

Obama    4       4
Biden    2       6

McCain   7       5
Palin    8       3
Some thoughts.

Obama/Biden have been in 8 states, while McCain/Palin have been in 11.

Obama will be in NV tomorrow. McCain/Palin headed to MI, IA, WI, MN, over the next 4 days.

Obama has not been in Ohio at all since Sept 3rd, and not in Florida since August 19th. For Obama and 2008, Virginia and Colorado are the new OH and FL. Granted that this is a snapshot with things having trended strongly toward McCain recently but for the moment, Obama's path to victory has been narrowed to few obvious opportunities-- VA and CO. And if they've got to narrow it down, the choices do make good strategical sense.

The Republicans do not have the battleground infrastructure in VA like they do in FL and OH, as it's not been competitive in recent national elections. It's still going to be tough for Obama to win VA, but its looking better than the other takeaway possibilities outside the mountain region battlegrounds. I wouldn't be surprised if Obama moves his current GA and NC field resources even more into VA in the coming weeks (or maybe they have enough money without doing so).

Without VA, it's back to Obama holding the Kerry '04 states including PA & MI, while adding Iowa to his column, and taking any 2 of the 3 mountain battleground states. But with Palin on the ticket, I'm not as convinced that the states of NM, CO, and NV are as sound a bet as they were previously for Obama. Keeping the '04 blue states blue, while adding Iowa and Virginia (for 272 EV's), could be the path of least resistance for Obama.

Biden's a political choice in that he's expected to hold PA-- a bit of state insurance for Obama. I wouldn't be surprised to see Biden spend one-third of his time in PA from here till the day of the election. Obama/Biden are more concerned about Pennsylvania flipping than they are Michigan. That's because if we assume Obama holds the rest of the Kerry '04 states and adds in Iowa, there's still a winning map if Obama loses Michigan (take VA, CO, and either of NV or NM for 269 EV's), or Pennsylvania (take VA, CO, NV, NM for 270 EV's), but the latter is obviously tougher.

This is a gamble coming up for McCain/Palin, spending three days this coming week is the leaning blue states of Iowa, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. They may look back on it as three days they could have spent in MI & PA, but if we start seeing Obama/Biden head to those states later on, it means the map is moving the wrong direction.

Overall, ending the second week since conventions, its a different landscape. McCain/Palin are looking much more expansive as a team, still having to shore up red states but also going deeper into the midwest blue states. Obama/Biden are more solo, with Biden mostly on defense in the midwest while Obama tries to blaze a blue trail in Virginia and keep the mountain region open.



Display:


Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

Gut check time.

The only thing to do now is to hit harder and hope things turn around.


by Bush Bites on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 05:24:22 AM EST

Not harder, smarter (none / 0)

The last thing Obama needs to do is become labelled like McCain has in the recent days.


I attended PUMACon '08!!!
by iohs2008 on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 09:27:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

Anyone who has been paying attention knows that in the last few days things have been turning around.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:56:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Unless your a naysayer or pessimist (none / 0)

Yes, things began to turn around just under a week out of the RNC.


I attended PUMACon '08!!!
by iohs2008 on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:59:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

BTW:

Lombardo, who worked for Bush Sr. and Mitt, is just selling Repub talking points.

"Everybody knows McCain isn't like Bush" ?

Who's this "everybody" he speaks of ?

From NBC's Domenico Montanaro
The USA Today/Gallup poll, as we mentioned earlier, has some very good news for the McCain folks, as it shows the Republican nominee getting a sizable bounce.

But here's one fact from the poll that might give McCain some pause -- the Bush number is largely unchanged.

In this poll, 63% of voters expressed concern that that McCain would pursue policies that are too similar to what George W. Bush has pursued. In the previous survey, conducted from Aug. 30-31, 64% expressed that concern; in the Aug. 21-23 survey, 66% said so.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2 008/09/08/1361182.aspx


by Bush Bites on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 05:34:00 AM EST

PA is the new NJ (none / 0)

I think he's going to FL after this Mountain State swing through CO, NV and NM.  They're going for Florida - I've read 350 paid staff and 50 offices.  Plus, they will send the Clintons to FL, PA and OH.  Palin will be a wash by the time we get done with her.

Obama has to hold all Kerry States, most notably MN, MI and PA.  If we lose any of these three, we are toast.  From there, IA and NM look good.  He only needs one more State.  That could be CO, NV, OH, VA, IN or FL.  He has to win one of those six.  

We've got to be ahead by a few points by October 15.


Our Moment Is Now
by mboehm on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 05:46:35 AM EST

Re: PA is the new NJ (none / 0)

I wish I had your thinking process, but I ain't seeing it.   The only way Obama can win now is to stick this economic noose around McCain's neck on ad after ad from now until election day.


by Monkei on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 07:32:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PA is the new NJ (2.00 / 3)

Kerry states + FL or OH = Victory
 That probably won't happen, but there's a reason why the Clintons are going to be spending a lot of time in the Sunshine state.
What probably is a lot more likely is
Kerry states + Va + CO = Victory or the worst case sceanrio (for a win)
Kerry states + Va and IA = Victory . This scenario means that Obama loses FL,OH, NV and NM, yet we still win. Personally, I think that's unrealistic and MN and NH are not going red in this election.

Mr. "Doom & Gloom" Armstrong is not looking at the victory scenarios correctly. There are only a few states (and in 2 cases, only one state)  that we have to win outside of Kerry's base in order to bring this one home.

John McCain has some Major problems however. Palin is NOT going over well in Florida. And if we win FL it's over. Bill and Hillary may be able to flip the state.


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 08:56:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: PA is the new NJ (2.00 / 1)

CHILL.  The momentum is now swinging to Obama. McCain got a cheerleader for the Repub party with Palin, but even my die hard dad couldn't believe she was the pick. Buyer's remorse is setting in.  Think about, would you have voted for your head cheerleader of high school to be class VP, let alone class pres?  That is what the Republicans with brains are now coming to terms with.

Thank God McCain picked her early Sept and not 3rd week of Oct.  We would have been toast.  Now we can let the bad judgment on his part finish him off.  And, it was BAD JUDGMENT.


by citizensane on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 12:11:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think polls will change next week (2.00 / 2)

All these polls were done BEFORE the stock market MELTDOWN when now the country is focused on the economy and AFTER the GOP convention.

With the country now focused on economic issues, polls may change.


by puma on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 05:52:36 AM EST

Re: I think polls will change next week (2.00 / 2)

I can't be the only one listening to John McCain talking about reforming Wall Street with one magical phrase dancing in my head... Keating 5. If McCain is part of the system that defrauds investors, if he's been part of it before and didn't change it when he promised to then, why should we think he'll change it now?


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 08:38:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

I read somewhere that Obama would be in Minnesota sometime soon.  I can't find a source to substantiate it, but it's pretty telling that Mc/P will be in the Upper Midwest.  

McCain has a better chance to pick up Pennsylvania than Michigan, IMO.  It surprises me that the GOP isn't hammering out the "didn't want to count your vote then" theme in MI, but maybe that will return in October.  

The fact that Virginia and Colorado have replaced Ohio and Florida isn't good news.  All four are red states, and this "change" simply means that the ones up for grabs are worth 13 and 9 EV's respectively, rather than 20 and 27.  Ohio and Florida are safe McCain states at this point, Florida of course being considerably safer.  

Colorado seems to be Obama's best chance for a pick-up (and Iowa, but despite 2004 I still consider that a blue state), followed by New Mexico.  New Hampshire and Pennsylvania are most at risk.  


Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.
by BPK80 on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 05:52:57 AM EST

I guess McCian is hoping (2.00 / 1)

MN is the WV of 2000, a complete shock to the system that stuns everyone on election night.  Don't see it happening.

McCain seems overconfident (and underconfident in Ohio) in his ability to hold Virginia.  He seems to be relying on the historical challenge that Republicans and Larry Sabato have written about in the state and his strength in the military regions of the state.  It could bite McCain in the end.  Jerome, I think you are missing a visit to Virginia Beach and Charlotte from Biden.  


by Blazers Edge on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 06:29:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I guess McCian is hoping (2.00 / 1)

It was the day prior iirc, than when the GOP convention was over, but yea, that just emphasizes the point, as does Michelle going there tomorrow.


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 11:21:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I guess McCian is hoping (none / 0)

Good points.  I think Virginia is the tightest state right now.  Win or lose this cycle, that bodes well for Democrats in the long run.  


Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.
by BPK80 on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:18:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (2.00 / 1)

Ohio a safe McCain state?  Really?


by Skaje on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 07:18:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

Yes, really.  Obama has been lagging in Ohio all year, save for a few moments corresponding with the zeniths of his campaign.  In a close national race, Obama will lose Ohio by 4-5%.  The demographic hurdles aren't easily overcome.  Obama leads (narrowly) in one out of every... seven or eight polls of the state.  And he's heading there less and less.  The writing's on the wall and Ohio is off the map.  The battle refocuses to Pennsylvania, Virginia, Colorado, New Hampshire, Nevada, New Mexico, and possibly Michigan.    


Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.
by BPK80 on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:17:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

Northern Virginia resident here. I have been working with our folks here and I can tell you that  the Old Dominion is hardly a McCain safe state. In fact the last poll has our guy at +5.

I don't know much about CO, FL and OH but many seem to think that OH or CO may flip. That and Va equals victory.


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 09:02:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

I don't think I said Virginia was a safe McCain state; by contrast, I said it was a swinger.  Ohio and Florida are safe McCain states right now.  That's what I said and I stand by it.  


Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.
by BPK80 on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:19:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

Given that Kerry lost, it is pretty much inevitable that Obama's victory will involve winning "red" states.


by letterc on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 12:30:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

Alternatively, his non-victory would involve "not" winning red states and/or losing blue states.  


Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.
by BPK80 on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:20:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

We're going to need at least one among Colorado, Ohio, Virginia. That's been obvious all year. I've been debating which one is more likely for weeks. I realize conventional wisdom is Colorado. But those 2006 Ohio results can't be dismissed. The exit poll was 20% liberal, 32% conservative. If that holds in 2008, that's a lower percentage of conservatives than we'll encounter in Colorado or Virginia. And there was no way a liberal like Sherrod Brown should have defeated a no-scandal incumbent by that type of margin. Ohio wants to vote our way and I'm not convinced Obama negates enough of that.

The partisan index in 2004 was slightly pro Democratic in Ohio. In Colorado it was basically +2 red, and more than +5 red in Virginia. I can't ignore fundamentals like that. You don't want to be gulping on election night when a state that has demonstrated tendency to prefer the other side is doing it again.

Obama needs to regain a 2-3 point national edge and the states will fall in line. We're going to be a slight electoral college underdog if it's dead even on election day.

Regardless, I can't believe the fraud that Obama would expand the electoral map. Having offices in Georgia and North Carolina is either pure hubris or ignorance. Likewise Indiana. It's disgusting that the Obama backers in the primary were allowed to get away with that 50-state crap. The legit argument was how Obama's strength in the West compared to Hillary's greater opportunity in Ohio and Florida.


by Gary Kilbride on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 05:57:14 AM EST

Re: Under 50 (2.00 / 2)

You seem positively angry that Obama would try to turn red states our way.


by Skaje on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 07:22:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

No, he's clearly peeved that shortsighted buffoons would believe Obama was going to turn red states our way.  


Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.
by BPK80 on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:22:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (2.00 / 2)

Having offices in Georgia and North Carolina is either pure hubris or ignorance. Likewise Indiana.

What's wrong with trying to expand the map?  Obama gave it a shot in those states, but apparently it didn't work out.  At least he seems to recognize now that they're not working out and is adjusting his strategy accordingly.  Personally, I'd rather have a candidate that was willing to take a few calculated risks rather than someone who has put all of his eggs in one basket (Ohio).  


by Will Graham on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 07:45:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (2.00 / 2)

I'm pretty sure properly speaking, the "50 state strategy" refers to attempts to get Governors members of congress and the Senate in all 50 states, and to build a Democratic party presence.  It's worked out pretty well, so far.

I could be wrong, but personally the only time I've heard "the 50 state strategy" in reference to a presidential election is mockingly, as in "what happened to the 50 state strategy?"  Nothing happened to it.


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 08:54:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You'll thank the 50 state strategy (2.00 / 3)

Exactly.

You can also thank the 50 state strategy when we don't have to lawyer up on election night because all the swing states are controlled by Republicans.


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 09:04:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

NC is still winnable (2.00 / 3)

Tens of thousands of new voters. Massive Voter reg drive until Oct 10th, then GOTV for early voting that starts Oct. 16.

Huge AA turnout.

Some GA staffers just arrived.

30 offices up and running with a couple more opening soon.

2 Congressional and one Senate pickups at stake


by parahammer on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 06:05:35 AM EST

Pa. is probably more at risk than MI (none / 0)

just because of the demos, which are more favorable to Obama in MI than Pa.  Of course, the contrary argument is that Obama's organization had time to build itself in Pa. during the primaries.  When the smoke has cleared, I expect Michigan to go to Obama a lot easier than people have imagined while Pa. will be one of those states that the networks will take forever to call, leaving us in a state of disarray for couple of hours on November 4th.

If Obama doesn't visit Florida soon, then that's probably a subtle sign that it's unfortunately a longshot.  I guess the key to Obama's chances in OH is SE Ohio; if the margins there close somewhat (last I read, McCain was hitting 60% in that region), then the state is back to a toss-up.


by Blazers Edge on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 06:22:58 AM EST

The logic behind Obama's strategy (2.00 / 5)

is, first and foremost, that McCain himself isn't a draw.  Palin is now the main story of the election, and her novelty is now wearing off.  McCain can't fill 3,000 seats in a 15,000 seat arena.

But the Obama campaign knows that Virginia is a game-changing sleeper cell.  Recent polling has Obama either tied or up four, with a huge excitement advantage and a massive ground game and voter registration drive.

Think about this:  If Obama wins Virginia and the Mountain West battlegrounds (NV, NM, CO), he can lose PA AND OH and still win, 270-268, provided that he gets the rest of the Kerry states + IA.

Winning PA and VA makes a really difficult election scenario for McCain--it requires him winning all of the Mountain West battlegrounds, including NM, which isn't likely, or plucking off Minnesota.  If Obama wins 2 out of 3 Mountain West battlegrounds, winning Minnesota wouldn't be enough.  And if Obama wins all three and holds MN, he could afford to lose MI and still win.

If Obama wins VA, he would still win if he lost PA but went 3 for 3 in the Mountain West and held all other Kerry + IA.

All of these results presume an Obama loss in OH.  If we win OH AND VA, well, it's over.

And this situation comes during a time period when the McCain bounce hasn't completely flattened out, fivethirtyeight.com says that Obama is polling ahead of trendlines, and the economic news plays right into our hands.

I'm not worried yet.

Bottom line:  flipping VA is realistic and


by hekebolos on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 06:45:59 AM EST

(to finish the comment) (2.00 / 1)

would put McCain in a real bad spot.


by hekebolos on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 06:47:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (2.00 / 2)

66 million in August and a half a million new contributors.


by kitebro on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 07:09:04 AM EST

"It's the Economy Stupid" (2.00 / 3)

Let me address two points. First Pennsylvania is a safe Democratic State.  We have a MASSIVE voter registration edge there and Ed Rendell and Joe to bring the state home on November 4.  Next, Ohio!  My God this is the ultimate Battleground state if their ever was one. IMO Jerome is out to lunch if he really thinks Ohio is a SAFE McCain state.  Here are a few reasons that should hold out hope for Obanma.  First, voter registration.  We have a HUGE advantage their.  Next Ted Strickland and a democratic state ran legislator.  This is crucial and will ensure no tampering with voter rolls and other deceptive tactics.  Finally, "it's the economy stupid?"   Ohio has a 9.1% unemployment rate.  As much as people in Ohio vote AGAINST their economic interest, things are so bad now that I think it will only take a minimal amount of them to stay home for Obama to win a narrow victory.


by nzubechukwu on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 07:53:03 AM EST

Boneheaded campaigning (none / 0)

While I think Obama should win regardless of this lousy campaign he is running --- for once the map gives us more opportunity than the Republicans -- I am just stunned by the fact that we can't make a better play in Ohio this time around.

It has been close in the last two elections and that was when the GOP controlled Ohio and the Republican party in Ohio wasn't in tatters.

Obama is narrowing this race more than he has too.  We should be competing in Florida and Ohio.


by RichardFlatts on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 08:22:57 AM EST

rasmussen has new polling out today (none / 0)

Shows McCain tied with Obama in PA at 47 - 47.  We should be contesting FL and OH, and hope to pick of one so that is by chance Obama lost PA we could still win the election.

Both Zogby and Rasmussen have McCain either tied or leading in PA, and leading in CO.  

www.pollster.com


by RichardFlatts on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 09:53:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: rasmussen has new polling out today (none / 0)

If these polls are true . . . there is no recovery from the loss of PA.

This is why McCain is focussing so hard on PA, he's using it to pin down Biden and force us to devote massive resources, thereby neglecting other offensive states.

I'm confident that McCain feels if he wins PA that he's really got the upper hand forcing Obama to run the table on all other swing states and keep all his leaners.

He needs to move the daughter of Scranton, Hillary, out of FL and park her in PA along with Biden.


If you had everything, where would you put it?
by wasanyonehurt on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:15:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We ARE contesting Florida and Ohio (none / 0)

Look at Jerome's numbers.  

Obama hasn't been in Florida in almost a month.

Also, McCain and Palin are hitting more states with campaign stops than Obama and Biden.


by RichardFlatts on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 11:18:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden, Bill and Hillary has (none / 0)

He won't go to Florida and he shouldn't.  Florida is off the map this time and vainly appearing in Orlando "for the hell of it" or to "lose less" isn't going to yield any practical benefit.  If Obama wants to win, he needs to be in Virginia, Colorado, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, Nevada, Michigan, and New Mexico and nowhere else.  If he's in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Oregon, or Washington, then we'll know the campaign is imploding.  


Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.
by BPK80 on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:28:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden, Bill and Hillary has (none / 0)

Wisconsin scares the hell out of me.   McCain and Palin could make some noise there.


by RichardFlatts on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 10:03:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden, Bill and Hillary has (none / 0)

I was worried in 2004 that Wisconsin would vote for Bush.  I was somewhat surprised (and glad of course) that it didn't.  


Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.
by BPK80 on Fri Sep 19, 2008 at 12:01:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (2.00 / 1)

Wouldn't it be wonderful if Robert Rubin could join Obama on the campaign trail?  But I guess his position with Citigroup, which undoubtedly has its hand out to the government, would preclude that sad.

Can't we make an ad out of Phil Gramm?  "Phil Gramm, a McCain economics adviser, pushed through the reckless financial deregulation that caused  this crisis.  Phil Gramm thinks anyone who complains is a "whiner"."


by Bob H on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 09:12:29 AM EST

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

They've been talking about him a lot. I think they need to bring up the Keating 5 scandal. John McCain keeps pumping the "I'm going to reform Wall Street, I'm going to take on the corruption and greed", but he swore to do that back then, too.

20 years and at least two John McCain ethics bills later and Washington is more corrupted than it's been since FDR. Maybe Obama could gently point out that someone else needs to take on this task.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 09:20:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Back of the Envelop (2.00 / 1)

I dont know if Obama can take NC but here is some quick back of the envelop math from someone bad at math:

NC's population has grown 1 million since 2000 ( estimated 1/2 million growth since 2004).  In the 2000 census AAs made 22% of NC's population, they are now estimated to make up 22-26% of 2008's population

But as of 2006 they still made up 22%

Hispanics made up 7% of the population, but only made up 1% of 04's electorate (be very interesting to see if this number grows and which way it goes)

Kerry lost NC by  435,000 votes.  AAs voted at about 48% performance with 907,000 votes with 85% (771,000 votes) going to Kerry.

If Obama can improve his AA performance to 95% he gets 90,650 more votes, also robbing the Republican of 90,650 votes and decreasing the margin by  181,300 some votes to the Democrat only losing by 253,700

If Obama can improve AA voting performance from 48% to 65% and takes 95% of that improvement he nets another 330,000 votes. (of course you can see that he doesn't have to even improve AA performance to 65% to win, if whites vote at the same performance they did in '04.

Now all this being said, I doubt you will see Obama in NC. If they can win it, it will be by stealth get out the AA vote without alienating the white vote.  And besides they will be working with a floor of voters who voted D without the 04 ticket visiting NC once.


by RuralD on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 09:24:20 AM EST

Re: The Tide is turning (2.00 / 2)

R2K daily tracking poll now shows Obama 48, McCain 44! The tide is turning, and with the horrible news about the economy now focusing voters on real issues instead of fluffy McPalin sideshows, the electorate will increasingly turn away from McSame and return to the real change they will get through Obama. I'm much relieved to see these new numbers, and also to see the EV count on 538 begin to crawl upwards again for Obama. We just have to hope that Obama does well in the debates and doesn't go off on long-winded diatribes that glaze over the eyes of the audience while McBush sticks to short, snappy, sound-bite answers. Keeping my fingers crossed!

Yesterday's news coverage on CNN and MSNBC featured stories about McSame's lies and distortions in his ads, even noting Rove's chastising of McSame for going to far. This meme and the new refocus on economic issues can only be good for Obama. I liked his new ad "Distortions" and hope to see more of them. Finally, the SNL skit with Tina Fey was spot-on and will also help to solidify public perception (especially among younger voters) about her lack of experience and qualifications for office. Her star is about to set. Notice how without her tagging along, McSame couldn't draw a large crowd! Soon only the die-hard Rethugs will be showing up at their campaign events.


by owlskinner on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 09:33:24 AM EST

UM (none / 0)

Are you seriously trusting a polls from DKOS?   OMG.  Pulleeze.
No offense, but that's like trusting a Fox News Poll.  I need to see those results substantiated by non-partisan polling....
by easyE on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 09:43:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: UM (none / 0)

Agreed, but the other tracking polls are trending in the same direction. And frankly, I'd like to see national polls held WITHOUT some of the landslide states.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 09:49:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: UM (2.00 / 1)

All of the tracking polls appear to be trending back toward Obama and the fact is that Research 2000 is a reliable pollster with a good track record. So, I accept their polls just like I accept polls from an evangelical right-winger like Scott Rasmussen who polls weekly for and appears on Fox News.


by noop on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:08:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks Jerome (none / 0)

Finally sober analysis instead of annoying high school cheerleading.

Here's what scares me:

NJ, Washington, Minnesota all looking "tight" in recent polls.  Does this usually happen?  Especially Minnesota.  That one looks really problematic.  I would say that Virginia (and maybe Colorado) are the only states in which Obama seems to be holding his own or even slightly gaining.  I'm from Colorado Springs- the home of the Focus on the Family- and I will tell you that they are going to come in IN FORCE for Palin in November.  This is a strong voting block that will absolutely vote en mass.  Let's hope the liberal college town of Boulder and the mountain towns can make up for some of their enthusiasm.  All in all, I'm feeling very skittish about this election.  It's looking like 2004 to me.  I see dead people......


by easyE on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 09:42:27 AM EST

Re: Thanks Jerome (2.00 / 2)

If it's shaping up like 2004 or 2000, we're good. The underpinnings of the vote are in our favor. Or to put it another way, if Al Gore had the kind of organization we have now in Florida, can anyone doubt that we'd have had people warning people about the butterfly ballot as soon as a couple of reports came in?

No, just hope that it doesn't shape up like 1988.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 09:47:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks Jerome (none / 0)

It's looking like 2004 to me.  I see dead people......

Maybe it's because you're living in the past.  Wake up, man, wake up!


by ProfessorReo on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 01:54:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I really doubt if Blue states are going to flip (none / 0)

And I think McCain is foolish in trying to flip PA. His best options are to hold onto all Bush states-IA and make a run a MI. That he holds onto all Bush states -IA is in my opinion a fairly decennt possibility.

And I still think Obama's best strategy is to win two out of NM+NV+CO+IN (I think IA is going to go to him).  


by ann0nymous on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 09:49:21 AM EST

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

You're talking OH and FL 47 electoral votes, versus CO and VA, 22, so I don't see the equivalence.

Also, I think he's saving Ohio for the end. Track him in Ohio in October and you'll see another story.


by Hedda Lettuce1 on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:00:26 AM EST

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

Dems always fight for Ohio


by Hedda Lettuce1 on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:04:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

Yesm, saving Ohio for the end, definately...

I predict Obama will be in Ohio during the "golden voting" period when you can register and vote at the same time (I think it's September 26-Octboer 7th or something like that)...  Do a lot of rallies and get people straight to the BOE after the rally is over to register AND early vote right away while the emotion is hot...

Hillary was just here over the weekend, BTW...


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 11:52:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Again Back of the Envelop, this time Virginia (none / 0)

We will ignore the demographic changes, the fact that 200,000 some people, maybe more, have moved into Va since 2004.

Also we will discount the roll that increase Latino voting might have.

Kerry lost VA by 262,217 or 9%

There are roughly 1,454,170 African Americans in VA.

46% of them turned out in 04', 87% of them voted for Kerry.

If 95% of them (at 04' performance) vote for Obama, then that decrease the losing margin by 93,000 to 169,000.

Lets be more conservative and say that Obama can only increase Va African American performance to 60% from 46% (of total population not registration) and lets say that they vote for Obama at 95%):  that would be a net of about 180,000 new voters for Obama in VA.

This is rough and wild, but gives us all an idea of where things might be.

Also, I do not know how you factor this, but any increase in AA turnout is certainly going to go into Obama's column by 10 to 1 margin, so saying he will get 95% of this years AA total might be conservative


by RuralD on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:00:51 AM EST

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

McCain is the perfect Republican candidate to turn PA red. The bitter commentary is going to haunt Obama in PA.

McCain is going to fight for PA.


by Liberty on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:07:44 AM EST

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

Eh, which is more insulting, "whiner" or "bitter"? I call it a tossup at the end of the day. PA could be dangerous because of Palin/abortion, not character.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:14:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

The bitter commentary without question and the circumstances in which that comment was made....


by Liberty on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:26:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

"bitter" from the candidate is more insulting than "whiner" from a second tier surrogate.


by souvarine on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:27:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

First-tier surrogate and a primary economic advisor. With John McCain, that might as well mean that McCain is the mouthpiece for Gramm. Just look how easily that "fundamentals" line slipped out yesterday. He knows he doesn't know jack shit about the economy, so he relies on what people tell him and seems to believe it without question.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:34:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

First tier is the VP and the spouses. Not many of the remaining persuadable voters know or care who Phil Gramm is, so unless what he says is echoed by the candidate or his first tier surrogates it won't have the impact that words out of Obama's mouth have.

We're at 48 days, time to focus on the attacks that actually cut.


by souvarine on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:54:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (2.00 / 1)

African Americans are going to vote for Obama at 95% easy (they voted for Kerry in PA by 84%).  

Take 100,000 votes out of the Republicans column in 04 and put them in the Democrats column for 08.

There is no way a Republican wins PA.  Bush lost PA by 144,000 votes, and that's with a turnout machine that they spent 4 years building, that has been sitting there rusting for the last 4 years.

Incidentally there will not be as much of an increase in AA turnout in PA, though there will be some, because they already vote at high numbers there.


by RuralD on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:25:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

I've never understood why people get so worked up about being called "bitter."  Hell, I'm bitter, and not at all ashamed to say so.


I come here for the lulz.
by username on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 11:20:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

It wasn't the "bitter", it was the "cling to guns or religion." It was dismissing faith and culture as "a way to explain their frustrations."

Bitter is the shorthand used to avoid re-offending by diminishing faith.

To understand consider how offensive it is when people dismiss your political support as "drinking the kool-aide", as if you had suspended rational judgement. And that is over something as transient as a political candidate, try applying it to a belief so deeply held that you are not conscious of it.


by souvarine on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 11:51:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Understood (none / 0)

Good analogy, but let's take it a step further.  I agree that there are non-bitter, non-clingy reasons to own a gun or believe some religion, even though I think doing either is usually counterproductive.  But I believe there's a lot of truth to his comment even if, as a politician, he shouldn't have said it.

It seems obvious that there are plenty of people who have little or no actual power, and compensate by buying a bunch of guns, a big-ass pickup truck, or what-have-you.  We all buy stuff to try to make up for inadequacies -- a fast car, a new dress, a herd of miniature porcelain animals.

Organized religion speaks to all kinds of psychological needs, but that's kind of a big subject for a blog comment, so I'll leave that one alone.

So from knowing I supported Obama, you can infer that it is more likely that I am a "kool-aid drinker" (and I agree, they definitely exist).  But it's insulting to conclude that I must be one.  Same for bitter-clinginess -- you look at a bunch of people who drive around in pickup trucks with gun racks and speak in tongues on the weekend, and you can be pretty certain that many are compensating for something.  You just can't conclude that any particular one is doing so.


I come here for the lulz.
by username on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 01:15:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Understood (none / 0)

Pennsylvanians HUNT...PA is ranked in the top five states in the nation. They don't cling to their guns due to eoconomic woes. In fact, hunting has a positive impact on the state's economy.


by Liberty on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 01:42:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They hunt (none / 0)

If you have the desire to believe that the working class in PA purchase 'assault weapons' in an act of bitterness in respect to economic frustration..go for it...


by Liberty on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 03:48:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They hunt (none / 0)

Point taken, but that's what a lot of the "gun debate" comes down to: gun control people want to have some sort of licensing scheme and sharply limit assault weapon sales; NRA people froth and scream about Our Guns in response to this.  Hunters and hunting rifles just don't come into the picture.

That said...  wanna go totally vaporize some deer this weekend? ;)


I come here for the lulz.
by username on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 04:10:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They hunt (none / 0)

Only in Philadelphia.  


Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.
by BPK80 on Wed Sep 17, 2008 at 12:30:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

The NRA is also targeting Obama here and in CO with a lot of misrepresentations of Obama's record that are pretty harsh... we'll see how much of a difference that makes...


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 11:54:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

bam (none / 0)

7 point lead in New Mexico!  the Latino vote is going to explode for Obama:

http://politicalwire.com/archives/2008/0 9/16/arg_poll_montana_west_virginia_look _competitive.html


by RuralD on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:30:14 AM EST

Re: bam (none / 0)

ARG not the most reliable pollster (check 538s rankings), but I'll take it, because that matches what we've been seeing for a long while.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:36:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (2.00 / 1)

Joe Biden has been in Florida since the convention, he made two stops in Florida.

1. on th east coast

2.(the one i went to) on the west coast in a fairly republican county, that they plan to turn blue.

This was on one of the days of the GOP convention.

I also believe he said Obama was in the state too that day.(but i am not 100%)


by Mbon007 on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:46:34 AM EST

I dont think Obama can win Ohio (2.00 / 1)

African Americans are already voting at 65% in 04.

But like PA they did only go for Kerry by 84% and if they go for Obama by 95% thats 98,000 votes out of the R column and into the D column, more than erasing the 118,000 votes by which  Kerry lost the state.


by RuralD on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 10:58:35 AM EST

Re: I dont think Obama can win Ohio (none / 0)

Based on your comment I do not understand why the title is that you don't think Obama can win Ohio...


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 11:02:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I dont think Obama can win Ohio (none / 0)

well that leaves us with only a 77,000 winning margin and thats if the overall polling environment shows a tie.  

Right now obama is 2-5 points behind, and I dont think that there is enough juice in AA vote in Ohio to overcome any Bradley effect (though I dont believe there is much of one and the reverse might be just as true: where AAs are saying they are undecided, when in fact in the end they will vote Obama.  Also, maybe Obama can get a bit more out of the AA vote, maybe he turns 65% performance into 70%, which would be quite remarkable.

So basically its a coin toss, but the Ds side is a bit heavier in Ohio.

The basis of my thinking: naturally this election will look a lot like 04, but Obama will win where he can make up Kerry's margin with the extra juice he gets by maxing traditionally under preforming demographics (states like VA where AAs vote at 46-48%), also the youth vote and Latino vote.

His appeal in the mid-west is his security cushion. (Obama can still win if he loses Florida, Ohio and VA, if he wins New Mexico and CO.  For McCain to win he needs to run the table on all those states.

This is also why I think MI and PA are completely safe for Obama, because of the AA vote and in their natural state they still voted D, albeit slightly.

But of course if he loses either one those two states its all over:  IF he lost say PA, he would have to win VA, CO, NM and Nevada . . . which maybe he could, because that would mean he lost the white working class vote pretty bad but super sized maxed the Latino and AA vote.


by RuralD on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 11:47:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I dont think Obama can win Ohio (2.00 / 1)

You say the environment will look a lot like 2004 but that does not make sense when you consider the change in voter reg over the last couple of years.

In addition you forget that in 2004 Ohio was controlled by a GOP machine whereas now a Democratic machine has control of the state. I would expect that to matter a great deal.

Another thing that nobody seems to be talking about (and I don't understand why) is the extreme priority the Obama campaign has placed on field organizations.

Maybe I am just being overly optimistic but it seems to me that we have a lot of advantages this year that may not be showing up in polling right now.


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 01:10:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ohio is within reach (2.00 / 1)

Heavy AA turnout
Latino turnout
Student turnout

Kerry only lost be 118,000

I think it can be done.


I attended PUMACon '08!!!
by iohs2008 on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 11:02:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How did you miss... (2.00 / 2)

that Biden has also spent significant time in Florida?

Or did that just not fit the storyline?


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 11:01:16 AM EST

Re: How did you miss... (none / 0)

Take it up with the WaPost campaign tracker.


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 01:23:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

would hate (none / 0)

to check out whether the story was true before you reprint it.


by taylormattd on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 05:09:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: would hate (none / 0)

What's your problem?


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 11:56:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Under 50 (none / 0)

Here's the only thing I don't get.  McCain has made 12 appearances whereas Obama has only made 8.  McCain is 72 and last I checked he doesn't even work weekends because he needs his rest.  I figured he would be making about half as many appearances as Obama makes.

The only explanation I can think of is that Obama is doing some serious debate prep.


by RemyLebeau on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 11:21:27 AM EST

Re: Under 50 (2.00 / 1)

Or possibly the list is incomplete?


Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America
by JDF on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 01:11:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerome's information is incomplete (2.00 / 2)

Jerome-

You have left out alot of information here. Biden has also been in NC, MT and WI and IA. Obama was in IN and OH. And as for individual stops, McCain-Palin have made 15 and Obama-Biden have made 23 appearances.  

Please update your post.

Rick Rosenthal
Los Angeles


by tiger547 on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 12:08:24 PM EST

Re: Jerome's information is incomplete (none / 0)

Sorry, I am going by the WaPost's campaign tracker of when they are in states.


by Jerome Armstrong on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 01:22:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

in other words (none / 0)

you want to stick with the "data" that permit you to write yet another story trashing Obama regardless of whether it is actually true. Nice.


by taylormattd on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 05:10:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerome's information is incomplete (none / 0)

I googled your name and just wanted to say that I'm a big fan of Mean Creek.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Tue Sep 16, 2008 at 01:40:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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