Finance Industry Shot Own Feet, Bleeding All Over The Place

The finance industry has been getting its own way for years, and as it happens, that way has been a disaster for everyone. These are the people who know better than everyone else how economies should be run and markets (de)regulated:

... As recently as March, [Lehman Brothers CEO Richard] Fuld was awarded a $22 million bonus for 2007 -- a generous pay package to be sure, but one that also reflected a year in which the bank's net profit had risen 5 percent to a record $4.2 billion.

But Lehman soon emerged as Wall Street's next domino as real estate loans and other toxic assets increasingly weighed on its balance sheet, especially after the collapse of Bear Stearns Cos Inc in March. ...

After a buyout deal fell through on Sunday, Lehman Brothers is facing bankruptcy, with Merrill Lynch and AIG following close behind.

Funny how even the favorite institutions of the free market fundamentalists can't survive in an unregulated free-for-all.

But unlike you or I, businesses like Lehman, Merrill Lynch and AIG are too important to be allowed to fail, so the public is going to have to pay for their obscene private profit taking:

... With  both Merrill Lynch and AIG seen as extremely weak (both lost more than 30% of their market value on Friday alone), a liquidation of Lehman could bring them, and others, down, in a collapsing house of cards.

The reason is that in a liquidation, all the liabilities become immediately due, whereas the assets need to be sold to willing buyers. So the "loss" in such a collapse is not, as it would be in normal times, the difference between the liabilities and the assets, it is the difference between the liabilities and what money can be realised fast with the assets. It's the difference between the value for you of a mobile phone, and its value for a junkie that needs to raise cash quick to get its cash. ...

We're all going to have to pay for their greed and arrogance as taxpayers, as in the government takeover of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, even as we've already had to pay for their predatory business practices. But what did the leading lights of the finance industry think was going to happen when they destroyed the financial security of the very customers who keep the market humming? What did they think was going to happen when the industry was based on pyramid scheme resellings of the only type of loan industry-favored regulation lets people walk away from anymore, their home loans?

Something had to give. People started mailing in their house keys instead of their mortgage payments. The glorified crap shoot of hedge fund real estate portfolios, 'safe' paper that all the major institutions are relying on either to guarantee accounts payable or that accounts receivable can pay, came to a squishy halt. Lenders kept insisting that the real estate market had nowhere to go but up, reality had other ideas.

Earlier this year, I talked with Rep. Brad Miller (D-NC) and Colorado 2nd District Democratic congressional candidate Jared Polis about the roots of this credit crisis and the effect it's been having on ordinary people. Join me on the flip ...

Home Equity

In spite of a "Help for Homeowners" law that Miller helped pass this year that threatened penalties for foreclosure-happy banks, the mortgage industry has not done as they'd like to be done to. Foreclosures in August 2008 are up 27 percent from August 2007 and the ratio of bank-owned real estate is as high as it was during the Great Depression in 1930.

"The foreclosure problem, the housing problem that we've got, is not the result of lenders bending over backwards, trying too hard to help borrowers who would otherwise not qualify to have their own mortgages. It's the result of abusive practices trapping people who already own their home into borrowing repeatedly," Miller said. He also said that passing consumer protections three to five years ago would have prevented these problems.

Miller's work in the House Financial Services Committee has given him reason to closely scrutinize the industry, and there were worrying signs even in 2003, when subprime mortgages had dramatically increased to eight percent of all mortgages.

In the 2005-2006 timeframe, Miller saw subprime mortgages account for 28 percent of all mortgages. He said everyone expected that borrowers would refinance within two to three years, paying penalties and fees to transfer into new loans. With 90 percent of the subprime loans having adjustable interest rates that kicked in after those two to three years and 70 percent having prepayment penalties of up to five percent, refinancing would have been the thing to do. If, that is, it wouldn't have been better to sell the house. He added that 55 percent of those borrowers should have qualified for prime loans.

"It was designed to strip away the equity that homeowners had in their homes. And that was the business model," Miller said.

Overkill

While Miller sees the financial crisis leading to changes in the law and increased support for consumer protection, the same industry that's now reeling from purchases of mortgage-backed securities had previously gotten weak federal laws enacted for the purpose of preempting stricter state laws.

"The abuse of borrowers was the original sin," Miller said. "If we'd had a president or a Congress that was not completely obedient to industry, those loans would never have been made." He pointed out that the Housing and Urban Development agency could have protected borrowers at closing by requiring better disclosure, but the Bush administration has been "entirely on the side of industry and showed no concern at all for how ordinary Americans were affected."

The district Jared Polis is running to represent includes Adams County, one of the hardest hit in the country as of 2007 and a 2008 foreclosure rate of every 1 in 44 households, where he says "everybody's been affected, or knows someone who has." He said that as he walked doors in the county, he sees houses for sale after being seized and said that a lot of families with young kids were often the worst hurt.

Polis said it could be worse, as many people who've lost their homes still have jobs, but there's a whole host of predatory lending practices that are to blame.

"We also need to look at payday companies, credit card companies and other predatory lenders that contribute to the vicious cycle of debt," Polis said. He described bankruptcy reform as a giveaway to the credit card companies, saying that "all these different forms of debt conspire to force people out of their homes and into poverty."

Polis singled out the payday lending industry as a particularly bad actor, with some of the franchises charging up to 430 percent interest. He said that efforts to limit payday loan interest in Colorado to 39 percent, "still pretty high," failed in the state legislature. They "lost the votes of three Democrats because of intense lobbying by the payday industry."

If lenders are going to act like predators, they should take a hint from biology. Predators who kill too many of their prey may enjoy brief population booms, but those booms are always followed by a crash.

You can't prosper in the long run by destroying what sustains you.

Bailout

While Polis said that prevention was easier than fixing the situation after the fact, he pointed to three key areas where leverage should be exerted.

First, he noted that many returning Iraq war veterans don't have homes and deserved a robust federal program to help them get mortgages. Second, he favored the emergency housing assistance fund proposed during the primaries by both Clinton and Obama, to help more people stay in their homes and regain their financial footing. Third, he supports fiscal responsibility at the national level, including cutting back the national debt.

I'd like to hope that we'll elect a president and Congress this year who think like that.

It'd be good if 'responsibility' was something that financial institutions and governments were expected to practice, as well. It'd be good if bailouts weren't only available to the very wealthy and well connected. It'd be good if people were at least as important to the government as markets.

But in the meantime, I'll just sit here, reading about the banks collapsing. And I think I will have another serving of schadenfreude, thanks.



Display:


Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet, Bleeding All O (2.00 / 2)

But why in Heaven's name aren't we laying the responsibility for this mess squarely and unequivocally at the feet of the inexorable 'deregulation' platform of the Republican party?  'Cuz that's exactly where it belongs.  Are we so afraid of 'big business' that the time-honoured position of regulation of capitalist enterprises for the common wealth of the people as a fundamental plank of the Democratic party is too controversial for 'prime time?'

The price of oil due to unregulated futures speculation, the sub-prime mortgage mess, the credit crisis...  These are all clearly a direct outcome of the excessive and ideologically driven deregulation which has been enthusiastically sponsored, implacably advocated and ruthlessly executed by the Republicans in the face of all criticism and complete disregard to the most elementary cautions.  Well, these chickens have certainly come home to roost and the Republicans can't reasonably blame anyone but themselves.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 01:19:47 AM EST

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet, Bleeding All O (none / 0)

That is where Rep Miller lays the blame.

Having seen him at countless campaign events he very clearly lays the blame at Bush, the Republican Leadership and their entire philosophy.


"Keep the Faith"
by blue south on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 02:22:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet, Bleeding All O (none / 0)

Good, we apparently need about 217 more like him.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 02:38:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet, Bleeding All O (none / 0)

You got any video?


by gil44 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 09:01:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The regulations were all there... (none / 0)

...they were just completely ignored.

Gramm-Leach-Bliley (repeal of Glass Steagle) was, in and of itself 6problematic, but far from being the entire problem. And, for the record, this occurred on Clinton's watch, not Bush's.

The real problem, again, was a financial services sector gone-wild over the past 6-plus years, with no regulatory oversight (enforcement) on everything from mortgages (HUD was asleep at the wheel), to the SEC, as far as totally walking away from their responsibilities with regard to the regulatory oversight of the hedge fund industry (and everything in-between HUD and SEC).

Democrats and Republicans, alike, profited from this. But, let's not mistake the truth, this failure happened on the Republican's watch! The buck stops with them!


by bobswern on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 02:24:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The regulations were all there... (none / 0)

Well, they were all there but for those dismantled, dismembered or picked clean of any relevant authority.  And your point about the Clinton administration is noted, never one of their more admirable ideological legacies, to me, but one which makes a whole lot more sense in the context of national prosperity and a balanced Federal budget.

I think there are plenty of examples of where these regulations, regulatory bodies and 'conventions of sound governance' have been thwarted, repealed, or legislated into uselessness, when they haven't been blatantly misused, or subject to the most egregious cronyism in the appointment to their boards and governing bodies of unrepentantly maladroit Bush administration acolytes.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 02:46:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The regulations were all there... (2.00 / 1)

The repeal of Glass-Steagall was, of course, strongly supported by the Clinton Administration and Robert Rubin, who got a pretty plum job out of the deal.

But if you go back and look at the original vote on repeal of Glass-Steagall it's as party-line as they come.  So I wouldn't be shy about hanging this one around the GOP's neck.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 10:49:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Democrats share the blame, to a lesser extent (2.00 / 1)

They abdicated their responsibility as the opposition all these years. Sure, people in the party have tried to fight this trend of letting the Republicans and their supporters get away with it on this issue. But not enough. When republicans get on an issue, they keep at it.

Republicans used 9-11 as an excuse to instill a culture of fear into Americans. Democrats need to use this crisis as a way to show Americans how important it is to have responsible checks on the system without strangling it.


by Pravin on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 10:43:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet (2.00 / 1)

I work for a REIT that owns malls. Our retailers have had seriously negative comp sales now for the past 6 months - at least. Of course my company is full of Republicans who are quite vocally supporting McCain. I keep saying to them "It's the middle class that shops at malls. If you want to ensure the failure of your company, keep screwing the middle class".

Of course, the execs at my company are acting like nothing is happening. My boss recently spent $900 on 2 magnums of wine at a work dinner a few weeks ago. They keep milking the profits and lining their pockets and when the company's stock tumbles, who will pay? Their assistants and the other lowly employees who will be laid off.

Ain't America grand!


by Dari on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 01:25:18 AM EST

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet (none / 0)

They need to remove food and entertainment from tax deductions for businesses.


by Pravin on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 10:12:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Lehman's last hours (none / 0)

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/14/news/com panies/lehman_workers.fortune/index.htm? postversion=2008091423


by mady on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 01:43:21 AM EST

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet (none / 0)

The dominoes are falling and the sound is being heard around the world.  Wall Street should be a pretty scary place in the morning!  I'm glad to have moved out of NYC two months ago where my 700 sq ft no view apt was rented for 4000 a month to the new tenant.  It's going to be a rough ride for NYC as thousands in the financial markets lose jobs.  The next President is a one term horse for sure and will be detested by millions of unemployed Americans!  


by orionwest on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 01:48:45 AM EST

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet (2.00 / 2)

Just like FDR you mean?


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 02:25:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet (none / 0)

FDR was elected years after the crash of 29!  Anyone elected this year will be blamed for the worst economic disaster in American history.  The major crash which the government staving off by rescuing all these Wall Street firms will happen just after the next election.  Read your history.


by orionwest on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 07:18:49 AM EST
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Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet (none / 0)

I guess I'd rather read my history than yours.  For example:


In early 1930, credit was ample and available at low rates, but people were reluctant to add new debt by borrowing. By May 1930, auto sales had declined to below the levels of 1928. Prices in general began to decline, but wages held steady in 1930, then began to drop in 1931. Conditions were worst in farming areas, where commodity prices plunged, and in mining and logging areas, where unemployment was high and there were few other jobs. The decline in the American economy was the motor that pulled down most other countries at first, then internal weaknesses or strengths in each country made conditions worse or better. Frantic attempts to shore up the economies of individual nations through protectionist policies, like the 1930 U.S. Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act and retaliatory tariffs in other countries, exacerbated the collapse in global trade. By late in 1930, a steady decline set in which reached bottom by March 1933.

Wikipedia - Great Depression: The Downward Spiral

Elected years after the crash of '29?  Perhaps so, but things were often less simple than we think they were from the comfortable perspective of hindsight.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 07:31:24 AM EST
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Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet (none / 0)

The point is the real crash hasn't happened yet but it will during the next President's term.  Whoever is in power during the next four years is going to take the hit whether or not they are responsible.  So far most people still have a job and are not seriously feeling the economic problems.  There are exceptions in places like Michigan where the car companies refused to face reality and kept on producing gas hogs resulting in thousands of lost jobs.  In fact Michigan is what the rest of the country will be like over the next decade.  Guess what no political party has a solution because this thing has been in the making for years.  Cheap oil, easy credit, nothing down mortgages and putting band aids where major surgery was needed have all come to an end.  The reality is just beginning to take hold.


by orionwest on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 09:09:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet (none / 0)

I take your point but disagree with your original premise.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 09:24:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet, Bleeding All O (2.00 / 1)

How foolish is to expect that any bailouts will have a requirement limiting obscene payoffs to corprate execs?

We'll bail them out with no strings attached (i.e. GOP socialism)and they'll reward themselves with the loot. And DLC Democrats and GOPers will reach across the aisle to make it happen.


GOP=9/11TM
by ObamaBiden on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 01:51:55 AM EST

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet, Bleeding All O (none / 0)

Exactly. I propose a rule that any company that rewards its execs with IMMEDIATELY vested multimillion dollar payouts forfeit any kind of bailout. If the vesting is over time, at least the government can always cancel out future millions earned by the exec as a conditio to help out these companies. I also think the corporate veil needs to be pierced more often. There had to be some kind of malpractice by at least one of these execs.

I was strongly against helping airlines like DElta in the past. They had greedy execs who paid themselves retention bonuses only to bolt the day after their retention term expired.


by Pravin on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 10:47:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Observation (none / 0)

Well I suspect the polls are about to shift.


by bruh3 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 01:56:59 AM EST

Re: Observation (none / 0)

but in what direction? ;-)


If yer after gettin the honey, then you don't go killing all the bees.
by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 02:11:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Problem is (2.00 / 1)

The problem is many people, particularly independents & registered republicans Do Not equate/associate the economic mess to McCain & the Republicans.

I've been in the Finance Industry for two decades. A clear majority of employees, especially managers, senior managers, & executives are still overwhelmingly Republican & Pro-McCain. The morons who have lost their jobs & are about to lose their jobs still Ignorantly Refuse to Blame Republicans for the mess. And for those of them who do blame Bush, they somehow are able to point out that McCain is different than Bush.

The biggest stupidity is people still refuse to put the responsibility of the economic collapse on the GOP.

This is the BIGGEST OPPORTUNITY for Obama to keep hammering Wall Street's Economic Collapse to McCain & the Republicans.

He has to clearly warn & explain to people that a vote for McCain means that the disastrous economic policy of the Republican Party will continue.

He has to keep reminding people that, "why would you reward a political party that has destroyed our economic gains".


by latinomaker on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 02:16:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Problem is (2.00 / 2)

Meh...

Those people worship the "free market" like a golden idol... I wouldn't expect them to shift... but, the average joe who just lost his 401K?  Maybe, we've got a better shot at him...


"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"
by LordMike on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 02:40:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Problem is (none / 0)

Actually I believe in the free market. Which means NO BAILOUTS for these firms that paid their execs so much money. If the people are going to act like sheep and blame democrats instead of getting mad at the people who are profiting wildly despite their incompetence, let them go to the slaughter.

Aloso a true free market will actually need regulations to prevent the system from getting rigged.


by Pravin on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 10:49:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do Not equate/associate the economic mess (none / 0)

But look at the benefit of constantly running ads of McCain's saying the fundamentals are strong ... and more ads of him saying he doesn't understand economics.


by Cleveland John on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 11:25:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet, Bleeding All O (2.00 / 4)

The end of the world is not coming. The end of this country as we know it is getting much, much closer.   The same people who vote Republican despite the fact that this country has been brought to its knees by Republican policies, still believe that if some of their kind succeed, they will be rewarded by some bizarre form of trickle down economic reward.

How many years should they wait for that stupid Republican policy to create jobs? Or increase their personal wealth. It does not work. McCain/Bush/Republicans still think that somehow the no new taxes mantra will somehow put more money into their pockets, despite the most serious economic screwups - caused by Republicans - still means they might not have a job or someplace to live or fuel to purchase.

Unless they stop voting Republican  they are going to destroy this country, and lots of others. Alan Greenspan said "oops" today. Maybe the biggest financial catastrophe in 100 years. Watch your IRA go way down tomorrow. The next jobs report loss will be staggering - beyond belief.

The people suffering the most will be unable to get care through Medicaid, for example, because part of starving the beast mentality of the Republicans means eliminating all forms of government assistance. We absolutely must have a robust stimulus package now. It must include a large chunk of money to assist the disaster victims of the latest catastrophes, as well as the catastrophe that is about to hit Medicaid in every state. Got insurance? Just wait to see how much the premium goes up on that and what will no longer be covered.

We must invest now in hundreds of thousands of new jobs and fund infrastructure projects. And Bush/McCain and the Republicans must be held accountable for this economic meltdown that will effect tens of millions of Americans. It is just incomprehensible to me that anyone would even be entertaining voting for any Republican. Or even listening to one. Is going to a Republican political rally some bizarre form of sadistic escapism.


by Jeter on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 02:14:32 AM EST

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet, Bleeding All O (2.00 / 3)

The worse part is hearing many people just solely focused on, " Obama & Democrats will raise my taxes & McCain will reduce my taxes".

Many have lost their jobs, many are about to lose their jobs, yet they are focused on taxes.

For one, they should be outraged by the outsourcing of american jobs.

Two, most of them, 90% of them are in the middle income class & do not benefit at all to the GOP agenda of helping the $ 250K+ income level.

Its the Democratic Party's sole responsoibility to start changing the perception of people.

Gore lost despite the best economy in 40 years by Democrats.

Right now, Obama is struggling despite the weakest economic, He will not win unless he can tie all these economic problems to McCain & the GOP.


by latinomaker on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 02:25:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet, Bleeding All O (none / 0)

Hey Bro,Let me make something clear to you.  people that tell you that Obama will raise their taxes and McCain will lower them are racist.  Latino bro, people are fucked up making up excuses for not voting for a black man.  If your poor or middle class you will pay LESS taxes under Obama.  People are not telling you the truth bro.  Most of these voters are rural whites.  DONT LET THEM FOOL YOU LATINO


by nzubechukwu on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 09:17:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet, Bleeding All O (none / 0)

I live in rural America and am Latino.  There are more impeach signs out here than the Democratic Party can shake a stick at and people are pissed because the Democrats didn't do anything to hold Bush and Cheney accountable.  You're  just showing ignorance by blaming it on racism!  Obama didn't help things any by voting for the FISA Bill or a number of other things he's done.  I'm voting for Obama because he is Black and want to cast a vote for the first Black American President.  I wish there was another reason to vote for him but so far he hasn't given me one.  So stop with the Latino bro garbage and calling rural whites racists!


by orionwest on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 10:21:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet, Bleeding All (none / 0)

"If lenders are going to act like predators, they should take a hint from biology. Predators who kill too many of their prey may enjoy brief population booms, but those booms are always followed by a crash.

You can't prosper in the long run by destroying what sustains you."

This is the best I have read or heard that describes the current situation. Thank you for the comparison.  


by applejackking on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 08:29:19 AM EST

Obama (none / 0)

Obama has had some good comments about this so far.
I hope they become ads right away.
""Eight years of policies that have shredded consumer protections, loosened oversight and regulation, and encouraged outsized bonuses to CEOs while ignoring middle-class Americans have brought us to the most serious financial crisis since the Great Depression.""

Tie this to Greenspan's comments about McCain's tax plan and you got a winner!


by gil44 on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 08:42:37 AM EST

Re: Obama (none / 0)

Obama should also say that if republicans didnt spend all their time planning and defending a stupid war and smearing the opponents, they would have had more time to solve the problems at home. But then again, would they? And then Obmaa should seque into the commments you posted about how REpublicans have put more money into Halliburton versus empowering their own regulators.


by Pravin on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 10:22:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Social Security (none / 0)

A big drop in stock prices is a great time to remind voters that Bush wanted to privatize SS and tie it to the stock market.

What if Bush had succeeded and you were retiring today?  How much of your retirement would you have lost?

McCain supports the same risky SS privatization.

I would run an ad just like this in FL, WV and all markets that have a LOT of SS recipients who are happy that Bush (and McCain) privatization failed.


by bakho on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 09:04:16 AM EST

Re: Finance Industry Shot (none / 0)

But unlike the Enron meltdown this crisis took two.   It took greedy business people AND it took greedy comsumers.  Most of this is flowing from the mortgage crisis and that crisis was fueled not only by greedy banks giving tricky loans to anyone with a pulse, but greedy consumers who wanted more more and more house.

I don't live in an exclusive neighbarhood, but homes are easily above the the median selling price for homes in the area.   Over the past two years as the development built out, my wife and I would meet neighbors and find out what they did for a living, and shake our heads later, what is their secret how can they afford their homes?

We would see couple with 2 kids, a stay at home moms and a husband whose job most likely doesn't pay what mine does, let alone the combined income of my wife and I.  How could they afford the big house, with two cars, a dog, etc. etc. etc.

The answer has been obvious lately.  They can't.  They are in debt up to their eyeballs.  Foreclosures are popping up, home sit for sale with yards unmowed.   Hooray, and prices are dropping too.  Which effects everyone, at least in the short term.  

So lets not cheer for the bloodletting we are seeing on Wall St.  We are all going to take a hit (don't look at your 401k for the net year ... you'll puke if you do) and this time it isn't all big businesses fault.  


by RichardFlatts on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 09:48:50 AM EST

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet, (none / 0)

I think this overemphasis on HOME OWNERSHIP kind of messed up people. If you cannot afford to buy a house within your means, just rent. Home ownership is not a joke.

War on terror: I know Edwards got ridiculed for pooh poohing it. I will go one step further. It is a joke. Hell, even if it was done right, the amount of emphasis should have been much less. We are living in an age of 9-11 fearmongering fetish. If obama has half a brain, he will use this crisis as a way to illustrate that spending all one's time and money on the wrong war instead of fixing domestic issues carries a heavy price. Let the people suffer and feel the consequences of their passivity.

But nooo. We are like little sheep wasting money on ridiculous airport security, stupid wars. We do not spend time standing up for government employees who end up being whistleblowers.

NO MORE BAILOUTS. Let people pay the price for their complacency. Let capitalism work all the way. There should be a rule that any company that pays their execs multi million dollar bonuses that are immediately redeeemed wont qualify for bailouts.If a company chooses to lock up those bonuses in long term payoffs, that is OK as a well run company wont go bankrupt to pay off that bonus in the long term.


by Pravin on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 10:08:49 AM EST

Re: Finance Industry Shot Own Feet, (none / 0)

Totally right we just bought a house after renting for twenty plus years and it is no joke.  Renting an apt in nyc is no joke either, our apt rerented for 4000 a month.  The total mortgage payment is 2600 plus electric, cable and oil which is about 3200 a month.  Still cheaper than an NYC apt for what one gets.  On the plus side of ownership is that all the mortgage interest and taxes are deductable which in our case is about 2400 a month non of that 4000 a month rent in NYC is deductable.  On the minus side any home repair, which we're finding usually costs on average $500, is your responsibilty.  I'll just say sitting on the deck after a swim in the pool looking at the mountains sure beats a view of the back of buildings and no sunlight.  I had a great time in NYC but don't miss it at all.  


by orionwest on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 10:56:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

what's the problem (none / 0)


by FLS on Mon Sep 15, 2008 at 10:50:01 AM EST


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