MyDD :: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist

Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist

by Todd Beeton, Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 02:37:48 AM EST

Damn, when Chris Matthews is pissed, it can be good television, and today he was actually visibly angry that the McCain campaign was trying to portray Barack Obama's "lipstick on a pig" comments as an attack on Sarah Palin. Repeatedly he asked Republicans "Do you think that Barack Obama was calling Sarah Palin a pig?", which really is the pertinent question, and none of them could answer "yes." In fact Matthews' questions were met with much stammering. Here's the first part of the interview:

Update [2008-9-11 2:37:48 by Todd Beeton]:Matthews:

"This game that's being played is not an insult to a candidate, it's an insult to the intelligence to our democracy."

Indeed.

Tags: chris matthews, barack obama, john mccain (all tags)

Permalink :: 101 Comments :: Post a Comment

Maybe he could have pwned them (1.00 / 4)

when they were bashing the Clintons back in the day, but oh yea his fat ass was jealous he didn't get to be press secretary, booooohh. I hope this piece of trash loses his senate bid badly.

by Lakrosse on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 02:28:55 AM EST

Re: Maybe he could have pwned them (2.00 / 1)

yeah, really not the point but thanks for sharing.

by Todd Beeton on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 02:33:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe he could have pwned them (1.00 / 2)

Todd,

the reason this is perceived as offensive is because of Palins remarks at the Repug convention. It tied in directly with Palin at this point in the campaign, and the crowd's reaction proves this (no one laughs at that remark in normal circumstances, it's such an old and worn out line).

Yes, of course McCain has used that line. I myself have used that line. But this all goes to qualities that most folks like to see in a president, namely among them that he will KNOW WHEN TO KEEP HIS MOUTH SHUT.

You see, a presidential campaign is a crucible for a would be prez, testing him or her in many of the same ways that they would be tested as president. And a presidential candidate that either A) makes this remark knowing it would be interpreted to mean Palin, or B) does so unknowlingly and unwittingly - has just shown his unreadiness to lead.

That's why this remark was so damaging. Whether or not he made the remark with Palin in mind is immaterial: either way it was a gaffe of monumental proportions as far as the electorate is concerned.

This whole episode illustrates Obama's inexperience, to the detriment of our party. Instead of trying to defend it we should be trying to MOVE ON MOVE ON MOVE ON quickly and quietly.

Can I Haz More Palin?

by reebus on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 04:10:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe he could have pwned them (2.00 / 2)

Oh, of course, no one laughs at that remark in normal circumstances.

Except, mind you, in the video everyone has seen of McCain using the same line to refer to Hillary's health care line, where he says it and the crowd cracks up.

Now, did the crowd crack up because they sensed he was subtly calling Hillary a pig? Gee, let's not be silly here.

Here's a tip for you, my concern-trolling friend. When even a GOP spokesman isn't willing to come out and claim Obama was calling Palin a pig, that's a signifier that this line of attack isn't actually working with anyone in the real world. You can say all you want that the electorate is collectively horrified at this "gaffe of monumental proportions," but the funny part is, it's just you.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 04:19:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe he could have pwned them (1.00 / 1)

"Here's a tip for you, my concern-trolling friend.

Im not your friend.

"When even a GOP spokesman isn't willing to come out and claim Obama was calling Palin a pig, that's a signifier that this line of attack isn't actually working with anyone in the real world."

No, that's a signifier that he doesnt want to negate the advantage born of Obama's gaffe by making one of his own.

"You can say all you want that the electorate is collectively horrified at this "gaffe of monumental proportions," but the funny part is, it's just you."

The polls are indicating otherwise. But by all means, continue. You've almost entirely destroyed our party, so why not take it all the way home?

Can I Haz More Palin?

by reebus on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 04:38:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe he could have pwned them (2.00 / 2)

There are, of course, no polls indicating that this was a "gaffe of monumental proportions," but please feel free to continue imagining them.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 04:48:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe he could have pwned them (2.00 / 0)

"You've almost entirely destroyed our party, so why not take it all the way home?"

With destructive power like that, Iran is surely trembling. We might ask our awesome weapon SteveM to go Rambo on them.

"We live entangled in webs of endless deceit, often self-deceit, but with a little honest effort, it is possible to extricate ourselves from them". -- NC

by Trond Jacobsen on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 05:04:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe he could have pwned them (none / 0)

The next time McCainites whine about this BS, all the OBama camp has to do is run the clip where some McCain supporter calls Hillary a bitch and McCain is shown laughing.

by Pravin on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 10:59:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe he could have pwned them (2.00 / 1)

I'd like to add to the other comment. While McCain actively referred to Hillary's health care plan using the phrase, Obama did not. Here's the context:

"John McCain says he's about change, too--except for economic policy, health care policy, tax policy, education policy, foreign policy and Karl Rove-style politics," Mr. Obama told his supporters here. "That's just calling the same thing something different." With a laugh, he added: "You can put lipstick on a pig; it's still a pig. You can wrap an old fish in a piece of paper called change; it's still going to stink after eight years."

-New York Times
There's no mention of Palin in this context.

by buoren on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 04:33:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe he could have pwned them (2.00 / 0)

No one who is honest and in his or her right mind can look at that whole clip in context and determine that Barack was talking about Sarah Palin. Period. To do so puts you in one of the other categories.

This is a nice try, but demonstrates once again that the Republicans are afraid to run on their record, or the issues, and are trying to turn the focus on anything else. I think that in this case this is backfiring and showing them to be the party of lies and dirty politics.

Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.

by Travis Stark on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 09:10:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe he could have pwned them (1.00 / 1)

What is the point? That a sexist pig like Matthews can "pwned" Republicans on alleged sexism? Or that it is ok for a sexist pig like Matthews to attack those who are against the Democratic candidate? Or it doesn't matter as long as a sexist pig like Matthews hammers political opponents of yours?

Whatever, I do hope when others use arguments from those that you don't agree with such as Hannity (and yes, Matthews is like Hannity at least on sexism), you remember this comment "yeah, really not the point but thanks for sharing."

For the record, I will never vote for McCain/Palin.

by anya109 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 12:35:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe he could have pwned them (none / 0)

The point is not to appoint Chris as the next big liberal hope. It is to bask in the glory of a simple argument putting the spinmeisters to shame. By celebrating it here, we point the way to other talking heads in how it is OK to take down these idiots in such blunt terms.

by Pravin on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 01:41:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe he could have pwned them (1.66 / 3)

EXCUSE ME! WHO ...IS THE PIECE OF TRASH??? CRAWL BACK UNDER YOUR ROCK.

by Lodgemannered on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 02:58:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (2.00 / 1)

It's like most of the stammering Republican videos end up coming from Hardball because they're so shocked that Chirs Matthews would speak out against them and question them.

Oh lord, I'm watching Palin arrive in Alaska. Quite funny when the announcer wanted them to chant "McCain-Palin" they just ended up shouting "Sarah! Sarah!"

by werd2406 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 02:30:54 AM EST

She's really the top of the ticket now (2.00 / 1)

you only have to look at how her Alaska reception went, versus McCain's embarrassing Philadelphia sojourn. Sarah Palin is carrying John McCain, and in a big way.

by Neef on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 02:39:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She's really the top of the ticket now (none / 0)

So, does that help Obama any?

by anya109 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 12:37:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

On watching her speech:
I really don't know what it's like to be a Republican? Do I have to like suspend reality and personal thinking and just believe what ever is fed to me?

by werd2406 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 02:39:01 AM EST

Re; Hardball (2.00 / 0)

I hope this is the Obama "liar" message starting to stick, abetted of course by so much actual lying. We're seeing some small simmering of indignation in the media.

My worry is that the Gibson "interview" defuses it.

by Neef on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 02:42:10 AM EST

Re: Re; Hardball (2.00 / 1)

I'm not expecting much out of the Gibson interview. I'm pretty much thinking the questions will be like "So how does it feel to be the VP? How's the campaign trail going? Which of your kids do you want to talk about and which ones should we avoid?"

by werd2406 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 02:44:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Re; Hardball (none / 0)

Questions I expect from Gibson:

"Favorite color?"

"Cream and sugar?"

"I like pie, do you?"

I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt

by fogiv on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 11:41:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Re; Hardball (2.00 / 1)

And lets not forget this favorite... "do you feel you have what it takes to be president, if the need arises?"

... walk through the garden and show a cut shot of flowers..

OMG they are so scared of Obama. Its insane. Hiding their candidates from the press.
This is sooo bush republican of them. They lost my vote, over and over again.

by Trey Rentz on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 12:12:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Re; Hardball (2.00 / 0)

My worry is that the Gibson "interview" defuses it.
------------------------------------

Glad to see that you put the word "interview" in quotes the way you did becasue it will be positively be nothing more then good ole boy Charlie giving her the smoothest of rides ,and possibly feigning a "serious" tone now and again.
Put her on with Jon Stewart or Bill Maher.Oh they're comedy guys I hear some say.Ok Turn Jack Cafferty loose on her sorry ass.
THIS is where the late and very great Tim Russert would have shone like a brightest light,not that he didn't always anyway,but the thought of him interviewing her is something that I would have relished.

by Lodgemannered on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 03:09:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Re; Hardball (2.00 / 0)

Yeah, the "interview" sounds more like it's going to be a big multi-day puff-piece instead. They'll add some aspect of the "controversy" that she's engaged in, but make her look like she's heroically beating the odds or something.

by leshrac55 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 03:58:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Re; Hardball (none / 0)

I have one ray of hope deep in my soul for the Gibson interview. Normally I don't care for his interviews, but this one is so big, and so important, that perhaps his sense of his own journalistic being, and the possible effect such an interview can have on his industry reputation, might win out.

Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.

by Travis Stark on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 09:13:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Re; Hardball (2.00 / 0)

BWAHAHAHAHahaha...
Sorry, Travis- are you feeling okay?
This is Mr. Good Morning America, who now imagines himself to be a "journalist".
Remember this crap from the debate?

GIBSON: I've read a lot about this in recent days. The best nuclear experts in the world say there's a 30 percent chance in the next 10 years.

Some estimates are higher. Graham Allison (ph), at Harvard, says it's over 50 percent.

Senator Sam Nunn, in 2005, who knows a lot about this, posed two questions that stick in my mind. And I want to put them to you here.

On the day after a nuclear weapon goes off in an American city, what would we wish we had done to prevent it? And what will we actually do on the day after?

"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC

by skohayes on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 09:41:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Re; Hardball (2.00 / 1)

There you go harshing my mellow. :-)

I didn't say I had a LOT of hope, but maybe a little.

Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.

by Travis Stark on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 11:22:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Re; Hardball (none / 0)

I had to bring you back to reality so you won't throw things at the TV tonight.
Sorry to kill your buzz, but it had to be done.

"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC

by skohayes on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 08:21:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

Palin: "We're sending money to...some regimes that don't like America"

I'll give her $1,000 if she can name 5 regimes that don't like America.

by werd2406 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 02:47:48 AM EST

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

Are you questioning her intelligence or are you disputing the fact that there are regimes who don't like America out there ?

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 02:57:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (2.00 / 1)

I suspect he is questioning her knowledge of foreign policy.

Personally, I'm sure she's plenty smart, but did you watch that speech she gave? It was obvious they just stuck in a list of foreign policy issues for her to rattle off in order to appear conversant. "Terrorists might strike again at the Abqaiq facility in Saudi Arabia"? Give me a break.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 03:02:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

Her intelligence.

by werd2406 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 03:03:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

She got where she is because of her narrow focus. The confidence and certainty will rub off on other people. Narrow focus serves many ambitious people very well(and some Dems need to learn this lesson)... but upto a certain point.

SHe is running for national office now. She is supposed to be representing everyone including us "east coast elites". I never heard Bill Clinton bash conservatives even once during his tenure the way republican presidents routinely do. He didn't insult small town small minded folk.

by Pravin on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 11:04:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (2.00 / 1)

After trotting out every Republican woman since Margaret Chase Smith to call Obama a sexist, they don't even have the guts to follow through and say "Yes, Chris, we think he was talking about Sarah Palin"? What a bunch of wusses.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 03:00:03 AM EST

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

Given what we know already about Palin, is she not a pig? What's the big deal with calling her one (even though clearly Obama didn't)

by slynch on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 03:18:36 AM EST

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (2.00 / 1)

Because she'd be the lipstick in the analogy.

When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?

by Jess81 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 03:38:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

Exactly.

I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt

by fogiv on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 11:45:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

Sexist enough for ya? Is it ok to disparage women candidates with this and does not this make the charge somewhat creditable?

by anya109 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 12:45:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

It is not sexist to call someone a pig, even though, I repeat, Obama did not do that. McCain is a pig also. For supporting an advertisement that tries to paint Obama's remark falsely.

by slynch on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 01:05:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Republican didn't do a good job (1.00 / 1)

It's pretty obvious that McCain is asserting that Obama referred to Palin as a "pig." Palin's "difference between a hockey mom & a pitbull is lipstick" phrase was very prominent in the media over the past week and in the foreground of everyone's mind. Using the phrase lipstick was a transparent reference to her line from the convention speech, although it wasn't a good idea. While attacking Palin may produce glee among the hardcore members of the base, it isn't selling well with voters Obama needs to court. Attacking Palin only reminds voters of Obama's cavalier disrespect to Hillary and it doesn't help that "pig" is a dog-whistle derogatory term for Caucasians.

If I were supporting Obama, I would be really aggravated with his PR team--much as I didn't approve of the Clintons' PR team & strategists circa January, 2008.

Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.

by BPK80 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 03:49:15 AM EST

Re: The Republican didn't do a good job (2.00 / 1)

I guess I'm Caucasian so that particular dog-whistle goes wayyyyy outside my frequency. Or maybe I'm not the one who's on the wrong frequency at all, if you follow me.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 03:58:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Republican didn't do a good job (1.33 / 3)

I do follow you.

I don't support Obama, "therefore I must be racist." Naturally, I must also be attuned to coded signals that appeal to my lifelong desire for white supremacy and see anti-white racism in everything around me.

Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.

by BPK80 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 07:16:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Republican didn't do a good job (2.00 / 1)

Oh, look, another "lifelong" Democrat among us.
By the way, pig is not a "dog whistle deragatory term" for whites, it was used back in the 60s and 70s to refer to police officers, but no, as much as you might wish it to be so, it's never been a racial term.

"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC

by skohayes on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 06:41:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Republican didn't do a good job (1.00 / 1)

Right, police. Community organizer isn't racially tinged either. Nor is "urban." Or "small town" I suppose. I love unilaterally applied political correctness.

I think anyone familiar with the history of the civil rights struggle in this community knows why Black Americans had many justifiable reasons to resent the white police, who so frequently abused their power to maintain de facto supremacy & segregation in this country.

Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.

by BPK80 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 07:14:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Republican didn't do a good job (2.00 / 0)

Good lord, with all those dog whistles calling you, it's a wonder you can pay attention to anything beyond who's whistling at you now.
We can pretend faux outrage at everything the Republicans say, but then we're not focusing on what's really important, which is exactly what they want.
And may I remind you that along with the civil rights struggle there were a lot of anti-war protests where white and black college kids were beaten senseless, and even shot to death. That wasn't a racial issue.
Maybe you should brush up on your history.

"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC

by skohayes on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 07:39:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Republican didn't do a good job (1.00 / 1)

Um... the police were traditionally representative of the white authority in often overzealous wars on "crime." The fact that people of all races were lost in the civil rights struggle does nothing to erase the racist connotation of the term "pig." Its origin also relates to the similarity in skin color. Maybe you've never heard it used to describe Caucasians in a derogatory manner. If that is the case, I cannot take any responsibility for your inexperience.

Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.

by BPK80 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 08:20:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

this is probably the stupidest thing (2.00 / 0)

I'll read all week. Pig as a racial slur against whites. Give me a break.

by JJE on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 09:38:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Republican didn't do a good job (2.00 / 0)

May I refer you to the urban dictionary(try not to be offended because I used the word "urban" in a sentence):

a swine

derogatory term for a police officer

a person who eats excessively

a capitalist

the meat of a pig, pork

an insensitive male, a male chauvinist

a fat person

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.ph p?term=pig

Evidently, all those dog whistles have you confused.

"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC

by skohayes on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 09:47:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh dear (none / 0)

I'm sure if you look up "community organizer," you won't find "derogatory term for an African American" either. You completely miss the point of a dog whistle. Language is art, not science.

Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.

by BPK80 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 09:50:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He's not attacking Palin (2.00 / 0)

first of all. The fact that "Mr needs to fight harder", "Mr thoughtful pause" would call someone a "pig" is beyond ludicrous. Ed Rendell would. Barack Obama? Good lord.

Second of all, and given the first point, he has to start pushing back on the GOP's daily made-up-scandal. You see him starting to do that. Remember Joe Scarborough? When Tweety asked him "what will we be talking about tomorrow", Joe said "whatever the McCain camp wants us to, because they are assertive".

by Neef on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 08:20:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's not attacking Palin (none / 0)

McCain is asserting that Obama attacked Palin. That is very clear from the ad and I don't know why the Republican denied it. Whether Obama intended to slight Palin is an open question. Either he was blithely unaware of her very prominent and very recent "pit bull" ad lib or he calculated the jab. But either way, the casual perception will be that Obama said something bizarrely unprofessional and demeaning about Gov. Palin that had something to do with lipstick being on a pig. Scarborough is right. The Dems are waaaaaaay to defensive in the post-Swift Boat era. It's nice to respond to attacks that matter, but the endless responses from the Democrats only protract the life cycle of these mini scandals and make them more important than they actually are.

I don't know where this campaign stupidity is coming from. They're making it way too easy for the GOP to define the news cycle.

Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.

by BPK80 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 08:25:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Republican denied it (2.00 / 0)

because it's impossible to defend, as an accusation. It only works as a "wink wink" ad. Evey time someone pushes back on the charge, the accuser collapses into mumbles or nonsense.

McCain overreached, simple as that.

Your perception of how it will be perceived is colored by your deep dislike of the man. Not that mine is more objective, but I think the scandal's ultimate effect is still an open question.

by Neef on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 08:56:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Republican denied it (none / 0)

It is an open question, but one definite truth is that another distraction has diverted the focus of the campaign. Either way, the whole scandal is uncommonly strange. Months ago, I never thought early September would be all about "lipstick on a pig." Never in my wildest imagination.

Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.

by BPK80 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 09:10:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I admit I'm stunned (2.00 / 1)

by how effective the GOP noise machine has been. I didn't expect a blitz of this magnitude. I'm still shocked that they've gotten away with sequestering Palin. And that we're now fighting the Palin/McCain ticket.

The whole thing is bizarre.

by Neef on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 09:23:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I admit I'm stunned (none / 0)

Accordance. So many mini-scandals and really not a peep from the old hands (Wright, Rezko, Ayers). The single Ayers commercial was stupid. Not effective.

GOP ads are amusing & funny. Dem ads are humorless. Maybe that's a distinction that needs to be rectified.

Young lifelong Democrat. One of over 3,000,000 voters who kicked McCain and Palin out of Pennsylvania, permanently.

by BPK80 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 09:44:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I admit I'm stunned (none / 0)

They are getting away with it because there was a total uncalled for and yes sexist attack on Palin personally and on her family. It was disgusting to see the stuff on Bristol and Trig, how can she be VP with five kids and special needs kid, etc. This was like the 1950's, when women should stay at home.
This wasn't from the Repugs either.

These type of attacks, ironically, have allowed the Repugs to speak about sexism and also to present the faux outrage you all are protesting. Smart politics on the Repugs side, abysmal politics on the Dems side. Big reason why Repugs win.

Speak about her RW views and her position on issues, fair game. It fact, smart politics because frankly, many of those views are quite scary.

by anya109 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 12:56:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"This wasn't from the Repugs"...? (2.00 / 1)

I'm stunned - couldn't the Republican Party find one competent female with adult children to run for Vice President with McCain? I realize his advisors probably didn't want a "mature" woman, as the Democrats keep harping on his age. But really, what kind of role model is a woman whose fifth child was recently born with a serious issue, Down Syndrome, and then goes back to the job of Governor within days of the birth?

-- Dr. Laura Schlessinger, conservative icon

Damn us Sexist Dems to hell. But It's Ok If You're A Republican.

by Neef on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 01:47:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Republican didn't do a good job (2.00 / 1)

So you actually believe he was referring to Palin? Well, like I said, no honest or sane person could believe that. Thanks for the clarification.

Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.

by Travis Stark on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 09:15:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Republican didn't do a good job (2.00 / 1)

Oh. God. He's a Black Panther now? Yes, clearly when you slow the tape down, he's signing "off the" before he says "pig" in the tape.

btw, "pig" isn't a racial slur for white-people; when it's used that way, it almost always means cop. If you're Bobby Seale it can also mean capitalist.

Please, can you argue that Barack Obama was taling about cops? The whole "The Obamas hate whitey" was funny at first, but now it's kind of shopworn - we need more lols.

by Ponderous on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 11:23:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (2.00 / 1)

I don't really watch much TV "news", but the sense I'm getting is that this is sort of the way it's being covered everywhere. If that's the case, I think we can probably see some blowback from the phony outrage that they're trying to stir up.

by leshrac55 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 04:00:14 AM EST

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (2.00 / 0)

I figured out what this reminds me of. "Are you saying John Kerry shot himself on purpose?"

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 04:06:51 AM EST

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

Matthews did a good job asking valid questions to Republicans. That being said, when Matthews went into his Olbermann style rant, I had to flip the station. I'm sick of the lectures/commentary that Olbermann does; now Matthews wants to do the same type of "special comment?" Pleeaase.

by soyousay on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 07:08:59 AM EST

Rant? (none / 0)

No... he was calling them out. He did what many in the media NEED to do more often.

They need to call BULLSHIT when these people LIE.

If more of the media did this, then MAYBE we would not be in Iraq, Maybe we would not be in the mess we are in today.

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 11:15:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

Reason number 732 why we Democrats lose every four years. . .waiting for wackadoodles like Chris Matthews to change the narrative, when all he is doing is making a narrow sliver of the American population that watches him feel better.

I mean, who cares if Chris Matthews can host a show call Hardball and then feign outrage at the latest sleazy campaign tactic that constitutes the kind of politics Chris Matthews practiced, has admired, and now exploits to make a couple of lefty folks happy? It may have acted in the primaries to help render Hillary Clinton unacceptable in the minds of millions of Democrats, but in the General Election, Chris Matthews, Keith Olbermann and two bucks get you on the subway.

Hint: When we start feeling good or bad based upon how Chris or Keith pummeled this or that GOP operative, we are in trouble. The key to this race was and remains Barack Obama's ability to make people trust him and believe that he is going to help move this country into the 21st century in a way that preserves the American dream. Everything else, in particular MSNBC primetime, is entertainment.

by bslev22 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 08:20:11 AM EST

That sounds good (none / 0)

but it sort of ignores a) the other guy in the race, and b) the fact that few people hear what the candidate says, the rest hear what the media says about the candidate.

by Neef on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 08:25:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You sound "concerned" (none / 0)

So you think it is better for the media to just let the lies of mccain and palin go through? You think CM should not have taken on the smears coming from mccain the lies from mccain?

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 11:10:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You sound "concerned" (none / 0)

Why would I respond to someone who just presumes that I am "concern" trolling? Because it's like shooting fish in a barrel or in the circle jerk or whatever, and because I'm a nice guy, and because the accuser deserves a little education. No he who chooses not to read what I wrote, aka Kevin, I am not saying that any politician should be insulated from the media when he or she lies. I am saying that Matthews' entertainment nonsense is not a substitute for what Senator Obama needs to do to win the election. Winning requires getting your own message out and forcing the media to get the message you want out. You think Matthews' faux outrage does that? So be it. You think showing that the GOP is playing dirty politics on MSNBC does anything? So be it as well. How many elections have you suffered through? Now return to your circle jerk.

by bslev22 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 11:41:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

and this means what? (none / 0)

"How many elections have you suffered through?"

hm?

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 02:53:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: and this means what? (none / 0)

It means that you betray an ignorance of recent electoral history if you think hissy fits about negative campaigning by folks like Chris Matthews is a substitute for Senator Obama pushing his own message, and pushing it hard. That's just hard knocks electoral reality. And, by the way, you are still the only one in this colloquy who has pulled the concern troll stifling button. I'm responding, and responding with vigor, but I've not called you a troll.

by bslev22 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 07:41:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (2.00 / 2)

Obama wasn't calling her the pig.

Palin is the Lipstick

by greenvtster on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 09:27:49 AM EST

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

Exactly right.

by IMind on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 09:41:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually (none / 0)

he wasn't even referring to palin at all. He was referring to their economic plans. How they are all about "change" when they are the same as bush if not worse.

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 11:08:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I think Bush is the pig (none / 0)

and McCain/Palin - Changey Reformers! is the lipstick.

by JJE on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 11:28:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (1.00 / 1)

1. hillary's rfk comment
2. mc cain's many houses

just a couple of examples where team obama used the other side's gaffes to their advantage and there was nary a peep of indignation from matthews or anyone. the show goes on....

you'll have to excuse me for not having much sympathy. after all, 'words matter'.

by darwinism on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 09:54:56 AM EST

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

So an every day turn of phrase used by millions with a grasp of the English language is the equivalent to Not Knowing How Many Houses You Have, now?

Fuck, even the unnecessary RFK drama was mitigated by the very real sensitivity of the assassination issue.

"Lipstick on a pig" however is a turn of phrase with no associated negatives. It's the same as "putting on a face". In the context, it accurately described McCain's campaign tactic to grab the mantle of change.

I think you know this.

by Mardarkin on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 10:59:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

Except lipstick is always associated with women as is "putting on a face". Why not use, this "dog don't hunt", that could actually help Obama with that old phrase with blue collar voters and not allow McCain to use it in any way to change the subject. See, how many days is this playing? Helpful for Obama that this is still news and on the blogs?

by anya109 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 01:07:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

Do you believe what you're writing? Presidential candidates are meant to be careful and diplomatic with their word choices, but if "lipstick on a pig" is a reference to Sarah Palin then "dog don't hunt" is the same as calling her a 'bitch'. You can manufacture controversy out of anything, as you've implied. The best we can do as thinking human beings is to analyse the context and fight back against the obvious bullshit. No offence to bulls intended.

by Mardarkin on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 03:38:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

can we please deal (2.00 / 0)

with reality?

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 11:07:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Yesterday was a depressing day (none / 0)

One of those days that make me question why I even care about politics. We have these recent graduates of the college republicans, making barely over minimum wage, being fronted out there to mouth false indignity at insubstantive campaign comments, on the same day that one of our largest investment banks is failing, the budget deficit is balooning, and a large number of people in this country lost their homes, their health care, their jobs or all three.

I fear that we have lost the battle - not with the republicans, but with sanity.

by activatedbybush on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 10:03:55 AM EST

I did not (none / 0)

see this yesterday! This is fabulous!

The only thing that could make it better, is if CW had shown, in context, how Obama used the term.

Jed? :)

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 11:05:45 AM EST

somebody tell Schieffer (none / 0)

That old jackass called it a "mistake" this morning, saying that if you "consider it in the best light for Obama, maybe he didn't mean it" or some such thing. Good to know he'll be moderating a debate.

This cake is baked, folks. The Hail Mary worked. This country -- half of it -- is off its freaking rocker and the rest of us have to get ready for a loss and all the horror it will entail. Amazing.

by Tangie3 on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 11:30:46 AM EST

Obama's Cows Coming home to Roost (none / 0)

I am a huge obama supporter - but I was a Clinton supporter in the primary and saw how they did this nonsense to distract as well (RFK totally out of context, LBK/MLK totally out of context, "fairy tale" = racist, Ferraro commenting that in this primary his race was an asset to seperate an otherwise relatively junior politician to ascendency and it was part of his appeal - not all, but part) - each of these was an unfair characterization, so stunning that Clinton is not leaping out to support Obama on this. (of course Clintons did it back as well - with the "proud to be an american" and "monster" et al)

I must say that while I absolutely think the McCain internet ad was in bad taste, Obama WAS making an implication - not that Palin is a pig (so not the pertinent question which Matthews kept missing) but that she was the LIPSTICK. And every read of Obama's statement suggests just this interpretation.

The real accusation is not that Obama called Sarah Palin a Pig. He called her the Lipstick. The word Lipstick, less than one week after Palin's speech, is probably 90% word-game associated with Sarah Palin and her speech. Obama listed several policy items that McCain purportedly stands for, and then said those things were not change. That his platform was not change - then he said "you can put Lipstick on a Pig and (pause...laughter) it's still a pig". i.e. you can put lipstick (Palin) on a McCain ticket - and his platform is still a Pig.

What changed the dynamic of the race and the perception of McCain's platform is Palin's addition on the ticket. I don't agree with this - on both sides this nonsense has been going on, such as all the fake racist comment allegations such as "fairy tale" and even Ferraro's comment, etc. Obama has benefited from the "fairy tale/RFK/LBJ" type stuff a bit - all of it on both sides in bad taste.

But at least we should have the premise straight to disagree with it - the argument is that it objectifies Sarah Palin. That all she is is a coat of paint over an old worn chair - that the underlying is the same and adding window dressing on it does not change it.

But his usage of "Lipstick" was unwise and intentional - in that he was obviously meaning to refer to Palin, by directly implying that all she was was the lipstick on the pig that is McCain's campaign/platform. But NOT the pig itself. That she added no other value to the campaign and was purely a cosmetic effort that fails just as badly as adding lipstick on a pig fails. That her selection was meant to try to fool you - but was so obviously lacked any substance (such as again lipstick on a pig or newspaper on a fish does not conceal the smell).

He clearly was referring to Palin as the lipstick on the Pig of the McCain campaign. And the argument is that this is demeaning her by objectifying her and not addressing her on specific issues, but just generally discarding her as cosmetic and by inference not a substantive person.

I don't agree that it is a big deal, but it is clear what he inferenced. But this is Presidential politics and both sides should stop being so oversensitive.

by mdp4d on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 11:35:35 AM EST

Re: Obama's Cows Coming home to Roost (none / 0)

The argument is not that she adds nothing to the campaign, it's that she doesn't represent any actual change from the policies of Bush and McCain. I'm sure everyone would concede that she has brought a lot to the campaign, and Obama has said so on more than one occasion.

"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman

by Steve M on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 11:47:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Defining Palin (none / 0)

is not the same as objectifying her. She's the life support of the McCain campaign, the oxygen tank that keeps them alive. He can't even campaign without her anymore.

As far as generally discarding her as cosmetic and by inference not a substantive person, this is provably not sexist since it has been done to Obama himself. It was, in fact, the theme of the "Celebrity" ads.

by Neef on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 12:40:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Defining Palin (none / 0)

The right way to define her (and the correct political way) is to talk about her policy positions. He should stay away from experience only because he hardly can boast much on that end. What is different is that his policies are much stronger.

Being too cute by half and using the lipstick term - lipstick does not provide life support (which actually has a function of keeping someone alive) so not sure what you fully meant on that point. Also, lipstick it is not a substantive item - even if she is the same as McCain, that is much different to saying she is just cosmetic to make the underlying McCain campaign look better.

It was Obama at his worst (and he so rarely is) - pithy and sharp and dismissive (remember, hillary's "nice enough").

Politically, he should have been smarter that is all. But it was no big deal and people on all sides need to be a little less "shocked and offended" by things. I do see the perspective, that I do not share, though by some women who say this is the type of things they confront all the time - that when they are in positions of power or seeking them, comments like the lipstick or on looks et al tend to diminish them (or at least make them feel diminished). it is a position that I can't fully judge from a male perspective.

by mdp4d on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 01:13:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

Well, he probably he was NOT pleased to be taken off the anchor spot for their political coverage. He probably saw that as NBC completely giving in to the McCain bullshit complaints. So yeah, you're gonna see more of this commentary, and not just from Matthews.

I hope the media grows a spine when they get beat up by politicians.

by 08AMA on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 12:34:31 PM EST

Re: Chris Matthews Pwns Republican Strategist (none / 0)

What the hell does "pwn" mean? Is it a typo or some new bloguage?

Rules for Life: Do not annoy others; Do not be too easily annoyed.

by Not the only Dem in KS on Thu Sep 11, 2008 at 12:53:05 PM EST

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