but I wanted to say, here's hoping everyone's enjoying the convention as much as I am.

But I have a serious question for people like that lovely woman in the vid.

I have heard Clinton supporters, PUMA's, whatever they want to be called, say that McCain is at least an honorable man so they will vote for him and they will then take the White House in 2012.

I have a couple of questions:

1. If John McCain is an honorable man, and he does an honorable job (of getting us into more wars and selecting judges that will take away more of our rights?), but again, become a popular incumbant, do you think he will just give Hillary the White House in 4 years?

2. If you think he will do a lousy job, are you willing to risk the US getting into worse shape and having judges appointed to take away your rights for the chance of hopefully winning the dem nom in 2012?

IMHO, i don't think either one is a logical choice or bet to make if you truly love our country. Take Hillary's words to hart last night, were you just in it for her?

I saw that woman and had the exact same reaction. In the end, I think she'll come around, but I feel like a cad for diminishing that kind of grief, no matter how irrational not voting for the other Democrat might be.

Of course, if that grief eventually translates into "We can't let this Indonesian con man into office", then I'll be pissed. Afterwards, Anderson Cooper asked if they could get a word with her again after Thursday, and I will be interested to see what she has to say after that.

I think that you miss something in your note.  Yes, you are right.   There are folks for whom it is genuinely hard to let go of the dream of their candidate, who they see as superior to the nominee, being denied.   And I agree, that feeling is real, and it is tough to surrender.  Though hopefully Hillary Clinton will lead by example and carry those people through to the nominee.

But there is another legitimate rationale for being conflicted, one which you implicitly dismiss in your closing point about not criticising the nominee.   While all democrats should be committed to Barrack Obama's agenda (which was almost the same as that of Hillary Clinton), some democrats are not sold on Obama the man.   I have never been able to connect with Obama the man.   I have not been able to read his heart in the same way as I have a number of our other leaders - Dennis Kucinich, Hillary Clinton, Teddy Kennedy are examples.  Joe Biden is one too.  I feel more connected to Michelle Obama than to her husband, feel that I understand her better as a human being.  But she is not the nominee.  

I still wonder about Obama's courage.  Would he have endured 5 years as a POW the way McCain did?  Would he have refused his own freedom out of honor?   Would he have shut the government down to stop the GOP advance, risking his own standing with the American people, the way Bill Clinton did?   Would he have had the strength to take the oath of office as a Senator while burying his young wife and child the way Joe Biden did?   Or carry on the legacy of three brothers who died in the line of public service, casting larger than life shadows, the way Teddy Kennedy did (and then show up from the hospital with kidney stones, an old man, to fight for what he believed in?).   Would he never sell out his beliefs, or craft his words for expediency - would he be unapologetically who he is - the way Dennis Kucinich is (disclosure, Dennis was my first choice in this election)?   And yes, would he have the tenacity to fight on, to find her voice, to get stronger in the battle, to hold her ground against the entire right wing of this country, to sustain an imperfect marriage - yet fall with a grace and sense of higher purpose that men with one tenth as much a claim to the nomination had done in the past -- like Hillary Clinton?   My answer is, "I don't know."  I haven't seen the courage of Obama.  I haven't seen him spill blood (his own or others').  I haven't seen his heart.  And until I do, I will love his policy positions, but be ambivalent about his candidacy.  That is not to say that I will not vote for him.  Most of the time I think that I will, and I will certainly not vote for McCain.   But this is the reason for my ambivalence.

If you do not like to hear about my reservations, then suit yourself.  You don't own this site, and certainly no one owns the right to experession.   I share my feelings here not to weaken our nominee, but to explain a point of view.  And those who would seek to shut their eyes to criticisms, whether those agreed with and shared or not (so long as they are genuinely expressed and not designed purely to hurt our candidate), surely believe that Senator Obama has no capacity to change, to grow.  That he must be accepted prima facia for who he is today, not what he might become.  Who is to say that he cannot look into himself and find a way to show his heart to those who have not seen it.   I believe that if he is a great leader, then he has a great heart within, and he can show it to the world.

I think the experience thing can be dealt with two ways, I'm going to work on TWO diaries on it.

One is, what EXACTLY is McCain's relevant experience to be President?

Point by point, go over his resume. It may be LONGER but not sure it is that big a sell over Obama's.

Remember, we are NOT talking about Hillary vs Obama, we are talking McCain vs Obama.

Unless they literally are playing the "Vote in McCain now, then Hillary gets a shot in 2012?

Wow, that is risky BOTH ways, for how much damage that McCain can do in 4 years and assuming Hillary gets the nod in 2012...

But, those folks making that decision, walk away from them imo.

The SECOND Experience diary will be about the Cuban Missile Crisis, and JFK.

If you know that story, it's clear now, almost ALL the advisors, most with a LOT more "experience" then JFK were calling for him to bomb Cuba.

ONE voice, someone who knew Kruschev personally, said NO, Nikita is "sending a sign" he wants to back out of this.

Jack went with his gut and his instincts, and, as we all now know, there were ALREADY nukes in Cuba, and had we bombed them, the Russians would probably had retaliated.

So, what would McCAIN with his VAST experience have done there..

Well if virtually ALL your experience is Military, you lean with the generals.

If you OBama, and your experience is working on the streets trying to bring people together, do you make the same call ask Jack Kennedy did?

I loathed Kerry in 2004. But I voted for him. Had I not, I would have been an idiot who cut off my own nose to spite my face.

This person should have just said no when asked to be on TV. Is that what she spent all the money to attend the convention to do-to spit on her own party?

Fools are never hard to find.

We have begun to see the separation between the PUMA movement and genuinely conflicted Clinton supporters. I'm very happy about that simply because we can start to tailor our message to those who vote on principle and on issues rather than those who vote in spite.

almost everything..however I've concerns about the last paragraph. Well thought critique of Democratic party leaders including Obama like his FISA vote cannot be expressed openly. There will be occassions where his and the party decisions would be different from what progressives would like. And I see no reason why we cannot critique those in a progressive blog like MyDD.

Nice post.  I agree completely that this was an earnest interview, and my suggestion is that Obama take a few minutes to meet her personally.

that simply lasted too long.  She simply needs time to emotionally cope with the disappointment.

To put it another way:

Had Hillary not run, would she be sitting there wondering whether or not to support Barack Obama?  

No.

The best approach is to give people like her their space.  

I saw that interview late last night. I dont know but I understood where Ann Price Mills was coming from. I hadn't seen it earlier because i hate watching the punditry. but the interview was really heartfelt & genuine. I didn't agree with everything she said but I respected her because this was more than just an election to her. and she definitely invested more than just time and energy into it.

the part that got me was when she was saying [paraphrase] you saw it yourselves, you saw it yourselves, you know that was a presidential speech; you know it. at the end of the week when you start tearing up the speeches, and you know you will, you know that was a presidential speech.[!] the way she said it, her face; pure anguish.

just a random passing window into what alot of peeps are going through.

Well, I can't agree with one on this one and not in the mood for a flame war so I'll keep this kind of shorfor the most part) because I could really go on a rant about this.

I will say I found very troubling that a Democratic delegate on the Convention floor would express doubts about Obama while at the same time leaving the door open to voting for McCain.  

On live TV of course while being interviewed by a major news channel.  On the floor during the Democratic Convention. To the MSM hyenas. After Hillary had given one of the best and most moving speeches I had ever seen from her.

Their is a place and time for everything and she did no one (especially Hillary) any favors. I'm sure many people ( hey, maybe even Chelsea) still have their reservations about Barack and I have no trouble with that.  But for the most part they have the presence of mind to know when, how, and to whom they express themselves in this manner.

Their is a reason why this video is making the rounds in PUMA mailings and blogs and Republican sites. She gave many people great ammunition and fawning over McCain the man didn't help things either.

As I said, I respect what she said I just think she chose a  very bad place and time to say those things. She could of played it a lot better.

You all know I'm pretty fair when it comes to seeing speaking my mind around here so I hope this is not seen as an "attack".

If I'm flamed, I will understand and not take it personal.

I've said enough.

...you are attempting to see from another person's perspective. Rec'd.

I watched Hillary's speech on C-SPAN, free from pundit commentary. I switched to CNN just to get an idea of how it went over and caught this interview with Ann Price-Mills.

As an Obama supporter at first I was mortified and was milliseconds away from switching back to C-SPAN. Thankfully, I did not. It was her earnestness, her eloquence, her very real pain that kept me riveted.

At the end of her interview I recognized one important point. Despite her pain, despite what I can only imagine as her overwhelming vulnerability at that very moment she blamed no one for her candidate's loss. Not the media (although she had powerful words about them), not the DNC, and most importantly, not Obama.

That was the difference between her and what my idea of a Hillary holdout was.

She wants to believe again. She has not closed her mind . She and anyone like her are who Obama should be trying to win over.

And make no mistake. He will.

What's the point of this?  Do you really want to get into another round of bullshit fights about his experience vs. her experience?  This is crap.  Obama shouldn't have to spend the next two months winning over Democrats.  That woman made me sick.  What a selfish, pompous asshole to take her whine onto National television and question his experience.  Is it any wonder people say Democrats always find a way to lose.

I said it elsewhere, but I'll repeat it here: Supporters like this woman were ill-served.

She clearly identified with and felt a passionate connection to her candidate. OK, that's common enough. However, with the Clinton campaign promoting "Hillary" for president, and making strong gender and generational appeals, that identification may have crossed into areas that overwhelmed some people. Her supporters truly felt it was her turn, and given the identification, that meant "their" turn. I think that some of them were not quite ready for the emotional intensity.

The media and the pundits, treating both candidates shabbily as usual, seemed to take special aim on a favorite figure in Clinton, and that only served to deepen the identification: by attacking her the media was actually attacking them, and for many, it was a replay of past attacks on Clinton in the 90s, and the attacks they themselves felt in their own lives. It was pretty clear in New Hampshire, and later in the campaign: the more the media was perceived to be unfair to Clinton, the more hardened her support came. I think this identification, gender and otherwise, played a big role in that.

Then came the change in tone that occurred after February, in which supporters were constantly fed reasons to NOT vote for Barack Obama, why Obama was NOT ready, he was too inexperienced, his resume too thin (you can hear the campaign talking points spilling from this woman almost involuntarily). This isn't an arguable point: it happened, and it was a risky gambit taken by the campaign. Her supporters were clear and solid in their reasons to vote for Clinton; the campaign then set about convincing them why they should never vote for Obama.

I think that some of Clinton's supporters, rather than understand the tactical and strategic value of the anti-Obama message, simply became convinced of its veracity (after all, their candidate wouldn't lie). And, with the message being promoted relentlessly by what appeared to be "friendly" voices in the blogs and the "pro-Hillary" groups popping up post-primary, the opinion hardened into an inarguable reality for them.

After the primary ended and all summer long, the media, pundits, and figures around the party (though not many within it) kept alive a slim notion that Clinton might still get the nomination (a long shot) or, failing that, get the VP spot. Rather than ease down and try to absorb the disapointment, supporters were encouraged to keep their hopes up that somehow, some way, both they and Hillary would make it to the White House. Many of her supporters probably never even started trying to heal after the primary loss. They were actively encouraged not to.

So then last night, Hillary Clinton, the candidate she so admired and for whom she worked so hard, tells the woman in that clip that she must now vote for Barack Obama and Joe Biden. She wants to believe her, to abide her wishes, to continue the identification. And she probably does understand, deep inside, that it's the right thing to do. But she's been convinced, by the campaign and the voices both whispering and shrieking around it, that Obama cannot and should not be President of the United States.

That dissonance is what I see in that clip. And clearly, she's in a lot of pain from it. But I think her pain was was avoidable, and, in some ways, I feel that those who helped bring her to this point were borderline unethical. She's definitely a casualty, and my heart does go out to her.

That said, had the results been different, chances are I'd be critiquing the other campaign, and ask whether there were promises made or tactics chosen that took advantage of peoples' emotions to an equally unfortunate degree. Luckily, I don't have to do that, but it probably should be part of any comprehensive analysis of this primary season.

I felt exactly the same way when I watched her interview on youtube earlier today.  She was so very clearly conflicted in the fiber of her being, and obviously in turmoil.

She's the folks I'm happy to talk to about Obama.  It's way to easy when dealing with constant bashing from PUMAs and McTrolls to forget that there are folks who poured their heart and soul and energy into another campaign, but who agree with you on 95% of the issues.

I feel confident that there's common ground to be found with Ms. Price-Mills and those in similiar situations.

and I'm only doing it now because I happened to see the Price-Mills interview and wondered if any Obama supporters could see and understand what I did when I watched her. I'm very happy to see that one did.

Deep down I honestly don't believe that's her real issue at all, nor do I necessarily believe that she 'hates' Obama.

You don't literally cry over perceived inexperience. The real reason she will have a hard time is she had an obvious deep, emotional attachment to Hillary Clinton. And Obama is the one who beat her.

Before I was in the Army I had a long background in sales. Running for President is sales and marketing, pure and simple. And one truth about selling is people don't tend to buy on logic and reason. They buy on emotion.    

I just watched Hillary Clinton put Obama's name up by acclamation.  She is so gutsy.  I imagine she will have her choice of any role she wants to play in the new administration; Obama owes so much of the impetus with which this is going forth to her.  

What a year.

The problem I have with Ann Price-Mills is the same problem I have with so many PUMA's, and "disaffected" democrats.  You say that she's not the same as they are.  Possibly she differs by her lack of anger and vitriol.  But in the end she's basing her actions in a presidential election on emotions and that's an issue that has driven this country down the wrong course for far too long.

I simply have no respect for people that cannot separate their emotions, which I admit were palpable in this election, from making a logical choice for the one of the most important offices in the nation.  That's how Bush won an election twice, not based on logic, but based on how people "felt" about him.

Price-Mills' "experience" argument falls flat when it comes to the presidency.  Because if you have not been president of a nation you have absolutely no experience in the job.  It is clear that her emotions are sincere and that she holds Senator Clinton in the highest esteem.  But if she cannot separate her emotions from what she logically knows to be the best vote for her interests in November then she is no better than a PUMA or a republican to me.

By the way, that also goes for those Obama supporters who have no idea what he stands for or what he's done, or what his intentions for the office are.  If you're voting for him because you "feel" he's a great guy that inspires you, then you're just as dangerous a voter as Price-Mills.

you have proven you don't know anything. If all you can do is hide anyone who is not in lock-step with you you only show how weak you are. You will fail BHO just like you fail here.

just like Ann Price-Mills, myself included. I don't know how many of us hang out on the blogs, but I do know that a lot of damage has been done. Many posters on the so-called Democratic sites either don't know or don't care that there is a difference between people who are questioning, and people who are beyond reach. Many of you have treated all of us the same. You have treated questions doubts as unforgivable sins, and done all that you could to shut down reasoned discussion with anyone who disagrees with you, however mildly. When you have doubts about a candidate, and are trying to find reasons to vote for them that are stronger than your doubts, being insulted and demeaned gives you little reason to look further.

Now do we all know our jobs the second the RNC starts? Talk specifically about what you have heard and seen at the DNC. Go viral about what a tired, same old failed policy we can't endure another four years of this doubtful if he is really a maverick at all based on his voting record on Fox, and CNN, and every blog and in letters to every newspaper and magazine. If someone says something positive about any Republican or the past eight years - cut them off with accurate information. Ask them for statistics. Make them name the bills that McCain voted for that make them think any of our problems will be solved. The Republicans have been ruthless, classless and non-stop attack with their ads and their talking heads during this entire convention, like parasites sucking on a dying beloved family pet. Their goal was to turn people off. We have a big job to do. Talk about Obama/Biden and Democratic successes. ALL NEXT WEEK. Shut their ugly down!

If Obama had more "experience," do you think this woman would feel differently? Would she feel less disappointed, less frustrated with the media, less conflicted about her options?

I sincerely doubt it.

I respect her passion for her candidate, and I admire that she won't vote for McCain, but watching this clip makes it clear that her dilemma has everything to do with her intense feelings for Clinton and very little to do with Obama's resume.

I don't doubt her sincerity or her dedication to the Democratic party. I don't think she's selfish or stupid or self-centered. But the "inexperience" excuse seems like just an excuse, and one that can be easily overcome between now and November.

because she echoed the depth of my frustrations, disappointments.   Like her, I have NEVER not voted democratic.  I have voted for, supported, even worked for almost every democratic candidate for the last four decades, local, state and national.
Hillary is every woman for women my age.  We lived what Hillary lived.......being expected to do things a certain way to make sure our "men" achieved.  When Bill ran in 1992, I immediately identified with Hillary.  I was frustrated that Hillary Rodham was told she would HAVE to take the Clinton name NOW to make sure Bill could win (after all a woman NOT taking her husband's surname was viewed as a selfish b*tch).  But I understood why she did it.  So many of us of that generation, all our lives, were told to step aside, stand aside, to make sure our husbands, brothers could shine. I know women whose families said the money needs to go to the "boys' education  because after all it is MORE important that they get the better education, the better shot at jobs.
After all the brothers graduate then SHE can go to the just beginning to open "Community Colleges" while she worked of course.
I know the women who put their husbands through medical school only to be dropped for a younger version when he because the star.
I stood there as a friend's father told her "Good thing you're pretty because that is what matters for a girl, not brains."

Hillary was us.  She was a normal attractive woman who was more about her accomplishments than about her looks.  She never tried or wanted to be a trendsetter in how to dress or how to decorate.

Many of us are women who stood in line and waited our turn.  We let our brothers and husbands go first all our lives less we be labeled selfish, hurting the kids.
NOW we had Hillary.  She had worked hard like us, did it all, supported Bill and Chelsea and NOW she was doing it.  She was showing the way.
But sadly, so many of us felt she was UNFAIRLY shoved aside.  I could have handled a fair loss.  But not a loss where the media played "trash the woman" day after day.  Not when a woman who all her life worked for the poor, for and with the minority community, is labeled a racist by the left wing blogs, as well as the media.
Not when left wing blogs cheer and defend the sexism of the media.

Like that woman Ann Price-Mills, I KNOW I will never never never vote republican. But like her, I do not look forward to November.  For the first time in my adult life I have no signs out, and no plans to work for the democratic candidate.
Maybe that will change but for now I feel beaten down, mistreated and sad. I am not a PUMA never have been.  But here I have been called a dead ender and bitter for showing my frustration.

I have been pushed more and more toward the resistance.  Every day I remind myself how important it is to NOT allow a McCain win.  But I still cannot get my heart to agree with my head.

Yesterday I ran into a woman with whom I have worked on many democratic campaigns, local and statewide.  We had not seen each other for over a year.  Her first words to me were: I'm done.  No More.  I knew what she meant.  We are done with working for a party that many of us feel betrayed us.  I want it to change. I want my feelings to change. But like that woman I will take it one day at a time.

for posting this.

There are people like this for every candidate and every cause.

I am glad you could see and feel the genuine nature of people like this.

Progressive Blue

she made me tear up.

This woman will come around, even if it is her friends that nhave to get her out of the house to vote and vote for Obama.

damn. Thanks again for posting this.

Progressive Blue