When that text message says "Joe Biden"

How will you react?

Will it mean that Obama feels he doesn't have enough national security credibility and therefore needs to bring in a foreign policy "expert" to fill in those gaps in his resume?

Will Joe Biden be making all of the difficult foreign policy decisions in Obama's White House--a la Dick Cheney?

How does Joe Biden, who has worked in DC longer than any human alive, represent "change"?  Does Joe Biden's vote for the Iraq War muddle Obama's "judgment over experience" argument?  Is it important to be "right on day one"?

When Biden commits a horrendous gaffe during the campaign will the MSM [who are now eagerly pushing his VP candidacy] gleefully pile on?

Some questions to consider when the "Joe Biden" text message rolls in.



Display:


Biden, Nunn, Kaine, Bayh - - - (none / 0)

I want Hillary, but if not her, I really wish he'd go outside the box - - someone who's first name is General, or a Bill Gates type inventor / businessperson universally recognized genius, or a respected elder statesman media figure . . .
Just not a boring careerist / legacy / pro Iraq war vote, ie, not what Obama put Hillary down for being . . .
I'm still a sceptic!
by kosnomore on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 08:01:48 AM EST

Re: Biden, Nunn, Kaine, Bayh - - - (none / 0)

So either Hillary or the exact opposite of Hillary?

I don't think he'll rock the boat that much. Hillary would be a good choice...i think. Biden works too.  

I'm inclined to hope he goes with experience over change.


by glutz78 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:43:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It Won't Say Biden (none / 0)

Biden has been a smoke screen, it is someone not on the "short list."

We'll know very soon.


by Davidsfr on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 08:15:24 AM EST

I hope you are right (none / 0)

schweitzer, clark, webb or hillary would all be dandy with me


McCain - a serial Opportunist, from marriage to policy positions
by TarHeel on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 08:31:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope you are right (none / 0)

I'd replace Sebelius with Hillary, but I like your list.


by Lolis on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:28:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

When that text message says "Joe Biden" (none / 0)

Biden doesn't work for me. Career Senator, no military experience, and aside from that he doesn't stand out as unique in any way.  I do not see how he improves chances of being elected.  I really would not see the rationale behind the decision.

I do not think Hillary or Bayh  would be good on the ticket, but I at least could see some logic behind the decision.

But Biden would be a safe decision without being the best possible choice of the safe decisions.

Hagel doesn't inspire me either but he does have some military background, and could add to the cooperation and independent appeal.  But Obama does not feel safe enough with the party base to do something radical like that.

I am not going to be suprised with anyone picked though everyone has pros and cons.  But someone like Biden, it turns into if he was ok wouldnt....


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 08:19:56 AM EST

Re: "Joe Biden" (none / 0)

I think Biden would be a good pick. An outsider with a vision of change assisted by an insider who knows which levers to push to help realize that vision: this is a powerful combination.

I believe that Obama is well-informed and thoughtful about world affairs and naturally gifted in diplomacy, but there's nothing wrong with acknowledging that these are not the areas where he has the most professional experience. In fact, choosing a foreign policy expert would show humility and good judgment on Obama's part.

I would want Biden to show some humility too; he should come out and acknowledge that, despite all his experience, he missed things that Obama saw during the runup to the war, and he doesn't have the ability to move foreign publics the way Obama did during his overseas tour. He can support, not undermine, Obama's profile as an emerging world leader.

Biden might make a few gaffes during the campaign, but I'm hoping he would make up for that with his sense of humor and candor; I think he can come cross as a straight talker who sometimes shoots from the hip.


by slvn on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 08:33:14 AM EST

Re: "Joe Biden" (none / 0)

You think Biden is an outsider.  He has been a Senator for 30 years and run for president three times.  

david


by giusd on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 08:40:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Joe Biden" (2.00 / 1)

No, he's saying that Biden would be good because a combo of having the idealistic new guy helped by the guy who knows how to get things done would be a great combo. In a way I agree, and I think Biden would make a great attack dog, but at the same time I'm afraid that it could damage Obama's brand and end up with too many gaffes.


by Gorelab on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 08:43:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Joe Biden" (none / 0)

Personally I just be glad the speculation will be over, no matter who it is.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 08:53:16 AM EST

I will be thrilled (none / 0)

Look, I don't pretend he doesn't have vulnerabilities. You forgot the plagiarism thing too (as a college professor I don't exactly take plagiarism lightly:) And, yes, he's a consummate insider.

But Biden is genuine attack dog. His son is serving in Iraq. He has a sort of common man appeal that would serve him well in Ohio.

The worry that he'd be the Dick Cheney of the Administration is silly; Joe Biden is no Dick Cheney. Obama clearly has a foreign policy strategy of his own. Biden has proposed different solutions over the years (like the partition of Iraq) that Obama disagrees with. But that seems like a healthy thing at this point.

I think Biden is a great pick.


by elrod on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:00:23 AM EST

Joe Biden (none / 0)

is sort of how I could imagine Barack Obama would turn out, should he lose this time, in twenty years.  They have a certain flair in common, and a certain impish irrepressible humor.

Joe Biden, though imperfect, is good people.  He's one of my favorite elected officials, and has been for years.  I don't think he's always been right (he voted to authorize the Iraq War and he voted for that damned bankruptcy bill), but he'll always give it to you straight and he isn't at all afraid to fight.

I would be very pleased with him as Vice President, and I think he'd help Barack Obama get elected.  Can you imagine him debating Mitt Romney?  Hah!  Romney wouldn't fall apart (he's got some presence and he does project competence, let's be fair) but he'd be struggling to keep his head from getting bashed in, verbally.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:02:26 AM EST

Hillary is going to have enough problems... (none / 0)

1. She has proven she can't get her "followers" on board.

  1. Per the internal memos and results, she ran a lousy campaign and didn't show the ability to make tough decisions.
  2. Her husband has effectively built a huge wall between Hillary and the VP choice.

If Obama does lose this, and it appears it was because of Clintonistas, her national office hopes are over. She will be seen as an obstructionist and will never be president (see Ted Kennedy) not to mention put repugs in charge again which will hurt women's rights.


by IowaMike on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:02:45 AM EST

Puleeeze (2.00 / 1)

Blame it on Hillary because she actually won more votes in the primary than Obama?  Um, OKAY.  
As far as "getting her followers onboard"- well see- not everyone is cultish in the Democratic Party.  Some people are actually independent thinkers who cannot be told what to do.  If Senator Clinton's "people" do not want to support Obama- even after she CLEARLY has joined his team- this is Senator Obama's fault.  Plain. And. Simple.

Hillary Clinton won 18 million votes.  More than any other person in history. She won almost all of the swing states- and practically every large state (must we really rehash this history?????).  Sure- her campaign was bad.  She, however- was ELECTRIFYING.  She was probably the best Democratic candidate since, well, since Bill Clinton.  Face it my friend.  She lost because of the DNC, the Caucuses, and bad planning.  

You can try to blame her for Obama's shortcomings- but it will not work.  If Obama loses- blaming the Clintons might make you feel better- but it will be short term relief my friend.
 


by easyE on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:17:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Clearly on board? (none / 0)

Continuing to refer to Obama as "my opponent" is clear, but not for being on board.

Bill's praise of McSame is clear as well.

Be careful for what you wish for (an Obama loss), you just might get it.


by IowaMike on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:57:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree, Puleeeze.... (none / 0)

the "more votes than anyone" crap again undercounts caucuses, and counts non-certified, uncontested, unfair, and uncontested voting like activities.

Please learn to accept the fact your candidate ran a lousy campaign and lost. I did. Great campaigners with all of the advantages that Hillary had would never lose to a no-name 1st term senator.


by IowaMike on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:02:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It is people like you that destroy Dem Party! (none / 0)

Keep repeating Repug talking points. If Obama does not pick Hillary he is sure to lose.


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:46:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It is people like you that destroy Dem Party! (none / 0)

HAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahahhhhhh aaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!.....

My guy lost. I have been fighting for unity now for awhile. Its the whiney PUMAs that may destroy us, and most people who are able to reason see that.

What have they been talking about with the latest polling, Clinton supporters jumping ship.

If they do, and we lose based on those numbers, she will blamed and she will not win a dem nom ever.


by IowaMike on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:55:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

yet... (none / 0)

in a diary - not about clinton - you found a way to bring her up to explicitly bash her.  hhmmm....  suspect.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:13:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yet... (none / 0)

Just trying to help you have a "catharsis (bloodletting)" here as opposed to people destroying the convention next week. BTW, that would ruin Hillary.


by IowaMike on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:22:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

BLAH (none / 0)

That's how I'll react.  Major letdown.  Blue balls.  I mean, I guess I have no real reason to dislike Biden- he's just kinda- well, BLAH.  Old, kinda weird, kinda feisty but kinda- well, weird??? Not sure why I feel that way.  I would much rather it be someone who can bring some level of excitement to the ticket.  Sorry to say it- but Biden will be a big SNOOZE.  
Now everyone knows I want Clinton on the ticket (because I want to win)- but if it's not her- please let it be a fresh face- not Biden or Richardson.  I just don't think they will help our cause.
by easyE on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:09:30 AM EST

Re: BLAH (none / 0)

Joe Biden is the most qualified Democrat alive when it comes to foreign policy and he would absolutely skewer any Republican McCain might choose as his Veep.

Think of Joe Biden as the Beast from the X-Men.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:14:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What do you know about Foreign policy? (none / 0)

Biden flip flopped on Musharraf so many times. The guy pretends like he does. He bullshits a lot and most Americans that can not point where Afganisthan is on a map think it is great.

The goof ball returned from Georgia and claims that we should aid Georgia to a tune of one billion dollars. He is another cold warrior.

He was all for helping the fanatic muslims in Afganisthan fight the soviets without realizing their long term intentions.

Far from being a genius he is an idiot. Because his name is Biden and he is a White middleaged Irish catholic he is where he is.

With 30 years of experience and expertise he not only voted for the Iraq war resolution but was also defending his vote.


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:06:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What do you know about Foreign policy? (none / 0)

So he's not on your Christmas card list?  Gotcha.

Musharraf?  Look, if there's a simple answer on him I don't think anybody knows it.  Yes, supporting such strongmen has invariably hurt us in the long-term.  However, the short term effects of his fall have never been particularly pleasant or predictable.  Hell, I've flip-flopped on the good General so many times.

You got a problem with helping Georgia rebuild?  Fine.  How does that make him "another cold warrior"?  

And as for your last point, well, I wouldn't call Hillary Clinton an idiot for all her experience, given the fact that she also voted to authorize the war and still defends that vote.  She wasn't an idiot.  She was, and remains, wrong!  So is Joe Biden.

I can forgive, up to a point, if there's a good enough reason to do it.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:10:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Reaper You are right I was too harsh! (none / 0)

I thought Barack was doing good job about Georgia not getting overly involved. It is really not our problem . Europe should have the back bone to handle. We should put the monkey on their shoulders.

Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili is a hot head. He should understand the consequences of his actions.


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 11:29:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When that text message... (none / 0)

Obama is no W.  He may, indeed, want a strong foreign policy guy as his VP.  But I've no doubts who'll be in charge in an Obama White House.

It takes a moron to make a Cheney.

Anyway, I would be happy with Biden.  He impressed me a great deal in the primaries and showed a grasp of foreign policy beyond that of any other candidate, on either side.  


Torture me once, shame on you; torture me and get away with it, shame on us all.
by freedom78 on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:35:53 AM EST

He is definitely better than Kaine (none / 0)

The last thing I want is somebody who is out of sync of core progressive values. At least Biden is not that. SO I will shrug my shoulders and hope that Biden attacks McCain hard, real hard.


by ann0nymous on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:44:23 AM EST

Couls be worse (none / 0)

I would prefer it to say Wes or Hillary, but at least make it Biden...

If it says

Zip-Lock Bag Bayh

I will anounce my new group

POOP

Pissed Off Over Pick...

Me and my lab will protest everday, at 7 AM, 5 PM and 11 at night....


Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin and Joe the Plumber...The Triad of Republican Irrelevancy.
by WashStateBlue on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 09:56:20 AM EST

It doesn't matter who it is... (none / 0)

Let's not forget the most important thing: defeating John McCain.

I have complete trust in the Obama team to make the right choice. Whoever the pick is, the ticket will have my total support.

I know there's a lot of love on this site for Hillary Clinton, and, to be honest, I admire her myself although I voted for Obama in my state's primary. But I hope and pray that you Clinton die-hards realize that there are minor, if any, policy differences between Obama and Clinton.

The policy differences between Obama and McCain? As wide as the Grand Canyon.

Just take one important topic: the Supreme Court. Whom would you rather have picking the next two or three justices? McCain or Obama?


by BenderRodriguez on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:07:26 AM EST

WHAT A MINUTE!! (none / 0)

Ah but if it's Biden because of his "experience" weren't we told by the Obama crowd that "experience" wasn't all that important--it was "judgment" that really mattered. Now that hairplugs will be the nominee (hope he doesn't get the word when he's at a 7/11 getting served by Pakistanis)all of a sudden his vast "experience" is being touted by the same folk who discounted it before.  Ah, but I'm a troll racist (ie think Obama's full of it and can spot it a mile away) so don't dare pay attention.


by handsomegent on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 10:41:43 AM EST

I know you are sad.. (none / 0)

but we need to win...badly.

Anyways, unlike Hillary, Biden actually has accomplishments in the Senate:

-The Violence Against Women Act
-The Biden Crime Bill
-Ending genocide in Bosnia
-Being the most sought after Senator in terms of foreign policy.

I'm just saying for us anybody but Hillary voters, there's experience by proxy and then there's actual experience, Hillary is a strong advocate, but in terms of actual accomplishments, there's just nothing there.


by True Centrist on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 11:42:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

Why not just come out and say you don't like Biden and don't much respect Obama? Your diary kinda suggests both; you may as well just say so.


"This victory alone is not the change we seek -- it is only the chance for us to make that change." -- Nov. 4, 2008
by BobzCat on Fri Aug 22, 2008 at 11:41:44 AM EST


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