Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as VP?

One by one, many of Obama's prospective VPs have opted out. I am still hoping for John Edwards, but I'm thinking it might be Hillary. Here is why:

Democrat Barack Obama and his former rival, Hillary Rodham Clinton, are heading to New York with his vice presidential searcher Caroline Kennedy.

Clinton, mentioned as a possible running mate, and Obama were to appear together Wednesday night at a fundraiser.

Earlier Wednesday, Clinton deflected a reporter's inquiry about whether she has turned over documents for her former rival's campaign to review as part of the vice presidential search.

Obama made an unannounced stop at a downtown building that houses the law firm of another member of his vice presidential search team, Eric Holder, but he wouldn't say why afterward.

It's more than just that, though. Hillary has made herself far more feasible as a running mate as of late.

When she has appeared with Obama, she has been able to complement him and display complete grace.

The conservative media has spent the past several months bending over backwards to damn Obama by praising her.

Her support remains steady, and even the Democrats who didn't support her have come around. Her FISA vote was probably a big check in her favor.

She brings Florida and Ohio to Obama by a huge margin.

She is a known quantity, and while she could have inspired a great deal of attacks as the nominee, as a VP, the attacks kinda become more inconsequential.

But most of all, Obama's ideal VP candidate has evolved into someone who is relatively established with credibility on foreign affairs, but also could provide a valuable advisor on domestic affairs. And people have started to realize when talking about this, "Actually, Clinton encompasses all of this."

I said when Clinton and Obama first met that if they didn't announce by surprise in Unity, it was a mistake. But I suppose a surprise announcement might work just as well if timed properly.

ALL this being said, she might just be on that plane to be consulted and/or given the bad news in person. Regardless, it does seem like we'll be getting the answer to the VP question pretty soon.

I will also say that one aspect of it that would disappoint me is simply that it would mean we'd have another hands-on VP. I don't know if that's a good thing, but if we restore transparency, I suppose it would be acceptable. Besides, with the troubles headed our way, two heads would definitely be better than one.

Display:


my gut is saying no. (2.00 / 2)

but don't you find it so strange the interest in the VP this cycle?  or is it me?


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 09:07:27 PM EST

Re: my gut is saying no. (2.00 / 3)

Yeah, you don't see it with McCain. Why DOES it seem more interesting? Perhaps it's just that whoever the VP is sets the story. Perhaps it's that they're hoping Obama picks someone as eloquent and well-known as Hillary or John Edwards.

But most of all, I get the impression that they see the Obama campaign the same way we do. A great big machine that has plowed through. And they want to know whether that machine has enough juice to steamroll McCain and the whole RNC.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 09:14:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: my gut is saying no. (2.00 / 3)

It's a judgment call. Is he going to make the sensationalistic, exciting pick or is he going to go pragmatic?

Again, another instance where Hillary would be both.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 09:16:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: my gut is saying no. (none / 0)

Ok, you're going with your gut. The next time I want something from someone's intestinal tract, I'll look you up. Is that fair?
In the meantime, Obama just visited our fair state and by that one visit put the entire state into play.

Hillary doesn't play out, down here. but. She'd be a great veep. she's going to be the one.


by Trey Rentz on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:16:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: my gut is saying no. (2.00 / 1)

You don't see it with McCain because no one cares about his candidacy. And I don't mean it flippantly...it's disorganized, off-message, uninteresting; in other words, it's everything Obama's campaign is not.

Meanwhile, Obama/Clinton was non-stop drama, and that's carried over to his "Hillary or not Hillary?"  VP pick.

So for pundits and panel shows, it's a choice of covering the emerging rock star or covering the dull fuddy-duddy. Hmm...


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 02:45:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Dems have so many good choices. (2.00 / 1)

I like Edwards or Clinton but I also like Gen. Clarke and Joe Biden (I was a Biden supporter).  I wouldn't be disappointed in any of them as the VP choice.  In fact, there aren't that many Dems on the "list" that I wouldn't like as VP.

Contrast that to McSame's choices.  The only one I can think of who would be at all interesting is Huckabee.  Huckabee is a complete disaster policy-wise but at least he's an interesting character and fairly charismatic.  I wish McCain would pick Lieberman...would love the opportunity to vote against him.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 04:12:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Dems have so many good choices. (none / 0)

Sarah Palin scares me, but I don't think he would, and I don't think she would take the chance. She has an extremely good chance at a national race at some point, but it doesn't have to be now, and McCain will probably be a losing ticket. A few weeks ago it wasn't so sure, but now with yet ANOTHER redefining of his campaign, I think he's in serious trouble.

On the other hand, wouldn't it be funny to watch a VP debate between Clinton and Palin? I can just see the, "Oh, no you didn't" look on her face.

Romney, too, can do some damage, if for no other reason than that he seems to hand Michigan to McCain (again, though, Edwards was closest to beating him).


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 11:09:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: my gut is saying no. (none / 0)

I think the interest generated by the Dem Nom fight and the fact that Bush has defied expectations in how shitty a President he was is creating the buzz.  


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:30:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: my gut is saying no. (none / 0)

Yitbos you are so right. Bush really knows how to lower the bar and now McCain wants his chance to lower it further. Cheers


by Politicalslave on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 08:58:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

i totally just finished reading that article right now.

i dont know- i dont have any expectations for her winning the veep stakes. it would definitely be cool and all; but I am not entertaining the illusion that he will pick her.


by alyssa chaos on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 09:12:15 PM EST

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to (2.00 / 1)

We'll find out in a month.  I have no idea, personally.


by rfahey22 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 09:20:43 PM EST

I think (2.00 / 1)

we are looking at days to maybe 2 weeks. This will happen well before the convention.

Unless.... they want to surprise all of us at the convention.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:03:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think (2.00 / 2)

I think he should announce it like The Bachelor by handing the winner a flag pin.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:07:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

haha (2.00 / 1)

ummmm nah....  :)

How about a copy of the Constitution of the United States?

How about they take their oaths on the Constitution instead of a friggin bible?


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:11:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kucinich could pull one out of his pocket (2.00 / 1)

to use.  :D


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 04:14:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Awesome (none / 0)

Kudos for a Kucinich pocket reference.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 10:41:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Awesome (none / 0)

I love Kucinich's pockets!  

(Kind of a contentless post, for which I apologize, but Dennis's magical pockets of power are so darn CUTE!)


by SuGeAtARC on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 11:32:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Sure (none / 0)

He's got a tiny Stephen Colbert in there.  How can they not be cute?


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:09:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

flag pins? (none / 0)

i think it should be a bowling ball.  and then they celebrate by doing a shot.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:50:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: flag pins? (2.00 / 1)

In all honesty, I'd love to see Obama go bowling again. That last score included a number of frames where he was just playing around, so almost by default he'd improve. Even if he got 60, it'd be decent press.

And again in all honesty, I'd love to see Hillary cultivate her fratboy side a little more.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:27:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: flag pins? (none / 0)

He can go bowling after he's elected but before he takes office. He can paste a sheet of paper on each pin listing one disastrous Republicker policy or action, and see how many he can knock down.

Actually, that would be a fun political ad...if only he were a better bowler, LOL.


by SuGeAtARC on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 11:35:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think (2.00 / 1)

You think so?  See, I sort of suspect that McCain won't announce until after Obama, so that he can counter whatever direction Obama chooses.  The most obvious ploy would be to choose a female nominee (Fiorina?) if Obama picked a male nominee.  I think Obama probably knows this, and so he won't pick until shortly before the convention.  I could be completely wrong on this, but that's my theory.


by rfahey22 on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:06:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think (2.00 / 1)

You are right about that. McCain CAN wait, because the GOP convention comes second. Of course, if Obama DID wait until the period between when he gets back and the start of the Olympics (like two days before opening day), it'd screw John McCain big time.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:28:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think (2.00 / 1)

He DOES have a window in that time that could make sense strategically. Perhaps we're only seeing all of this activity because they have to make the DECISION before he leaves.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:29:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

mine is saying yes. (2.00 / 1)

Hey canadian gal, there's probably more interest this time, but I think there has been more interest in all aspects of the presidential race this cycle. Also I really do think it's going to be Hillary.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 09:22:37 PM EST

Re: mine is saying yes. (none / 0)

I think so too. By choosing Senator Clinton so many fires would be put out and we would win in a landslide.


by Politicalslave on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 09:31:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Edwards would have that effect too. (none / 0)

Either one could put us in landslide position for November.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 04:17:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: mine is saying yes. (none / 0)

Yeah, I'm getting this impression too. Mostly because of the way the other VP candidates keep taking themselves out of the running or doing something to make themselves less appealing.  It's like Obama's waiting long enough to let all the other VP candidates show their weaknesses, then when he picks Hillary he can say she's proven herself the best candidate for the slot.  And they're both working like crazy to show that they can, in fact, be supportive of each other and work together without trying to stab each other in the back.

So yeah, it looks like it's trending that way. Or maybe Obama's just being nice to sweeten up undecided Hillary voters, which is not a bad plan at all in my opinion.

I'll admit my bias here -- I'd love to see a unity ticket. I think the two of them would be a powerhouse that would knock the Republicker policies right out of the park and get some real change accomplished. (At least, I hope so. Hee hee.)

Also, I'm blown away by the historic image -- after nothing but white men in the White House since our country was born, imagine the picture of a race-minority man and a woman together running the US. The image is utterly perfect for the Democratic Party and its "big tent", which is a real one, unlike the Republicker's illusory version. I can't think of another image that would so powerfully say, "We are SERIOUS about changing things for Americans."

The MSM would go wild in a positive way for a change, except for Fox of course; Obama would pick up a huge voter bump; the Republickers would be frothing at the mouth and having heart attacks...it's really a beautiful picture (Er, I don't mean heart attacks literally). Even if you just hate Hillary's guts, think about the billboard and TV ads with these two beautiful people standing side by side -- it would have INCREDIBLE power.  Especially compared to posters of McCain and whatever white guy he picks, since I'm sure he's not picking Palin. Put the two pictures side by side in a TV ad and ask, "Which is the true face of America?"  Yeah, I know some people will go "The two old white guys", of course. But I'm talking about symbolic power here.

Also, they seem to have mostly locked Bill Clinton in a closet recently -- another indication, I think, that the Obama camp is trying to defuse the anti-Clinton hysteria before making the Unity Ticket announcement.


by SuGeAtARC on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 11:56:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: mine is saying yes. (none / 0)

Yeah, I'm getting this impression too. Mostly because of the way the other VP candidates keep taking themselves out of the running or doing something to make themselves less appealing.  It's like Obama's waiting long enough to let all the other VP candidates show their weaknesses, then when he picks Hillary he can say she's proven herself the best candidate for the slot.

So you think Obama is taking the Willy Wonka approach to VP selection.
"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:16:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: mine is saying yes. (none / 0)

LOL! I hadn't thought of it that way, but I suppose you could characterize it like that.

There are worse ways to pick a partner than to give all the potentials time to mess up and go with the one who makes the smallest mess. (I'm thinking partner like business partner or employee, not like domestic life partner.) I mean, if I were looking for a business partner, I'd get a short list of folks I was interested in, then watch their businesses while they didn't know I was doing it so I could see what kind of businessman they are. Then I'd make my first offer to the one who performed best during the trial period. (I'd do some research into past failures, of course, but I'd remember that people learn from their failures.)

After all...Willy Wonka's plan worked. He got the best candidate. Not a perfect one, but the best available -- and a pretty good choice. (I'm talking about the original, of course. I haven't seen the Depp remake, and don't want to.)


by SuGeAtARC on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 02:14:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

meaningless (2.00 / 1)

Remember all of the "Edwards is going to endorse __ because they were seen in the same green room/hotel/television stage!!"

This decision will not be made for at least another month.

I honestly believe that if Hillary had not made the comments about "John McCain and I bring a lifetime of experience....Obama brings a speech", then she would be the clear favorite as VP. If she had said that just once then she could talk it off as having been "in the heat of the moment" etc. But the fact that she used it over and over again seems to suggest that it is something she feels deeply, and there is no way that someone who so openly questions anothers fitness to be president can be their VP.


by highgrade on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 09:38:22 PM EST

Re: meaningless (2.00 / 2)

Yeah, it's almost like calling someone's economic plan "voodoo economics" - that guy didn't get asked to be VP either...oh wait, he did.

Get over it - Obama did.


by alamedadem on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 09:44:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: meaningless (none / 0)

He got to be president too....


by dtaylor2 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:23:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh shut up already (none / 0)

if Hillary hadn't done this or that, then she just might, maybe be worthy of my approval.  Give me a break.  Its politics.  If the tables were reversed, Clinton would think twice about asking Obama to be on the ticket- you know why?  Because she knows it would be a surefire winning match.  Obama's a fairly smart person as well- I somehow doubt he will take your hurt feelings into account over one remark.  Hell, Obama compared HRC to GWB at every turn- if there is one grudge to be held, its that one- what a fucking insult.


by linc on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:31:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh shut up already (none / 0)

Please point me to anytime when Obama said that Hillary would be a worse president, or has less of a claim to the presidency than Bush. Or that electing Hillary would be a "roll of the dice." You can't because it didn't happen.


by highgrade on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:49:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh shut up already (none / 0)

Highgrade,  Obama just accused her of being another Bush and blamed her and Bill for the being responsible for "the status quo".  In essence Obama made her out to be THE problem--the monster responsible for all things bad in Washington.  

To debate whether your opponent is qualified to be president is fair game in all primaries and elections; launching misogynist and ad hominem attacks (through surrogates) is not.  Furthermore, anyone who flips off his opponent in public is not presidential material.

The last I heard GW Bush has been the president for the past 7 plus years and the neo-cons have set the agenda for the war, the economy, taxes, etc.  How exactly does this make HRC equal to Bush?  


by trixta on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:48:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh shut up already (none / 0)

Do you have a source to back up your claim that he said she was just another Bush?

Never mind, reading further into your comment brought this beauty - "Furthermore, anyone who flips off his opponent in public is not presidential material."

Anyone who is still going on about this doesn't deserve any respect or a moment's consideration for their comments.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 10:35:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh shut up already (none / 0)

Exactly. Because anyone who thought he was deliberately flipping her off is going to interpret EVERYTHING from that perspective. Stuff that MIGHT be insulting is insulting. Stuff that was not meant to be insulting is an egregious error. And direct attacks are personal attacks.

It really is stalker-like worship.
"She says this, but she secretly wants us to do this."
"She was giving a hidden message in that speech."
"She's too good for the Democrats, they don't deserve her."

That's TAXI DRIVER type stuff right there. Scary.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 11:03:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh shut up already (none / 0)

I would argue that it's more common that politicians rail against the "status quo". No politician will ever run a campaign arguing that our political system is perfect and that nothing needs to change.

The experience issue on the other hand is different. It's not just that she said he didn't have the experience - no one would begrudge her arguing that she, as someone who has been in the national spotlight since 1992, has more "experience", whatever the merits of the argument. The problem is that she basically stated, over and over again, that if she weren't the nominee that the people should vote for McCain. That is inexcusable.


by highgrade on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 11:52:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I think both sides are getting over (2.00 / 1)

the primary skirmish.  I'm not angry at Clinton any more for things she said...she was trying to win.  And I see a lot of Clinton supporters who are over their anger at Obama.  We can't keep reviving everything that was said and done during the primary or we'll never move on.  Unity means BOTH sides putting the anger/hurt behind us and working together.

It's like arguing with your spouse.  Even if each of you is absolutely POSITIVE that you are right, at some point you have to say that's enough.  Otherwise, the argument will not only never end but it will escalate well beyond the original disagreement.

I say we should all agree on one thing -- we are all positive we are RIGHT and those who disagree with us are WRONG.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 04:28:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

this has nothing to do with me (none / 0)

I have no problem with Hillary as VP so please get off of it. The one constant among the "behind the scenes" stories, seems to be that there is some level of personal animosity between the two. I'm sure some of that can be traced to Hillary comparing McCain favorably to Obama.

There is a very clear difference between attacking your opponent's policies ("voodoo economics") and serving as VP since at the end of the day the President will get his/her way, and the VP can concede that although he disagreed with the opponent during the primary, that the "voters have spoken" and that s/he will work to fulfill the winner's policies - and a situation where you call into question your opponents claim to the presidency itself. Even worse when you consider she did so by comparing favorably a candidate that any serious analysis will show would perpetuate the worst aspects of the Bush presidency. I've been thinking about it for several months, but to this day I have no idea how Hillary would answer the question, during a VP debate, of why she would agree to serve as VP to a candidate that she has said is not competent enough to be commander in chief. What "experience" has Obama brought to bear since the end of the primaries that Hillary could point to as the reason she has changed her mind.

OK, that's all. Back to party unity.


by highgrade on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:45:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (2.00 / 3)

A month ago, I would have laughed at the notion of Hillary becoming the VP....

But, now that Obama pretty much is running her DLC campaign and totally dis'ing the activists that got him here, there's no downside anymore to bringing her on...

In fact, her FISA vote may have been calculated to make her more desirable to the grassroots...

I personally think that it is now more likely than not that she will be the VP nominee...

I would have never said that a month ago... never... A month ago, I would have been pissed if he brought her on... now, I think it's a good idea, and am mad that this whole primary fight happened... He's running the exact same campaign that she has, and brings only a little extra to the party... not enough, though, for the party disunity that is occurring... so, why did we even bother?  Why did he even bother, when the end result is essentially the same?

Bring her on... let the PUMA's be happy, win the whole thing and hope for the best, I guess...


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 09:44:19 PM EST

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

I have a ton of respect for you LM, but the anger on the left over Obama's recent actions has probably helped him more than you know.  I could give anecdotal evidence based on the number of people I meet at my work who are now on board because they do not think he is "a crazy left wing nut job".  But here is my honest analysis.

By going to the center this early he is going to force McCain to fight him on his terms.  You will pay less in taxes under Obama's plan if you are not loaded, so McCain has to explain why the rich deserve more help than we do.  On Iraq McCain will have to explain why he wants to stay indefinitely and will have a hard time labeling Obama as a cut and runner.  The only issue he has a good chance on is energy, and I am hoping Obama can find a good way to counter the ridiculously simplistic "Drill Now, Drill Here, Pay Less" crap that the right is spewing.

Obama is acting like a good politician, and while that may make some of us sad, it is a good thing.  If McCain is forced to fight Obama on the grounds of O Man's choosing, we win big.  

I hope you do not think I am making light of your anger at his shifting, but I think long term it is for the best.  

I preface all of what I just said with the belief that Obama is basically full of crap on most of his shifts and is just trying to win and will govern the way we all expect come January.


by Xris on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:19:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

Obama needs a proactive energy policy and an economic plan to balance the budget.

McCain has said massive nuke plants.

McCain has said balanced budget.


by dtaylor2 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:26:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

I am not worried about Obama on the economy, I do worry about his energy approach though.  That is the issue that the conservatives are grabbing running with where I live.  


by Xris on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:28:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

Obama also needs supporters who are helping him get elected by putting pressure on the media not to push Obama left on issues like FISA, but to get them to report the utter ridiculousness of McCain's energy "policy" and balanced budget "plan."

It's hard to go on the offensive when you have to spend half your time making sure you're not getting shot in the back by your "allies."


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:34:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

Well, I just saw Obama's energy ad on the TV... it was quite good, and didn't induce a seizure like McCain's ad did...

When did building nuclear power plants become a popular idea!  Do you want one in your back yard?  I don't think so!  Maybe the memories of three mile island have finally faded (I'm actually a proponent of nuclear power), but I never thought I'd live to see the day that advocating for nuclear power would be a winning political issue!

McCain says he'll balance the budget by gutting Medicare and Social Security... Obama's got a better idea... getting out of Iraq.


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:43:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

Oh no, McCain's plan to balance the budget is that too. But he calls it "winning in Iraq". Which, unfortunately, he still can't define.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:55:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

"has said"?  well shit, why shouldn't we believe him?

Didn't Bush say he would balance the budget in his 2005 State of the Union?


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:26:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain is a Republican. (none / 0)

All republicans always say they will balance the budget during their campaigns.

No republican ever balances the budget once elected.

70% of the national debt was incurred under republican presidents.

McCain is a Republican and therefore a liar.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 04:33:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

I'm not angry about it... just disappointed... I was hoping for the second coming of JFK, not Bill Clinton 1996... nothing wrong with Bill Clinton 1996, but if that's what I wanted, I would have supported his wife...

At this point, I don't see the difference... so what was I fighting for?

I'm ok with his shifts... I think they are overstated by the media, and some folks have pointed out that the effect of his shifts are generally meaningless policywise... more for show... but, I was really hopeful that he would run as a progressive and win as a progressive...

Now, we just have the same crap campaign we've always have.... only this time with more GOTV...  I can live with it... but, I was hoping for something better... a transformative election.... that won't happen it seems...


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:40:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

Its July and you are right, he really hasn't shifted much.  Once again I understand why you are upset, but in the end its about getting a progressive in office so they can enact progressive legislation.  I don't care how we get there, just as long as they govern like a true progressive.  


by Xris on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:52:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Second Coming of JFK? (2.00 / 1)

Even Kennedy wasn't exactly the textbook example of progressiveness.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:24:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second Coming of JFK? (2.00 / 1)

he was a huge hawk in regards to communism if I remember correctly.  He also barely won, which is something people forget a lot.


by Xris on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:28:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second Coming of JFK? (2.00 / 1)

But, he was the true founder of the great society... starting the war on poverty, and was committed to civil rights... denying the Washington Redskins access to D.C. stadium (now RFK) until they integrated...

I don't know how he campaigned...  I've watched the famous debate with Nixon, but the issues were so different back then.  Nixon wanted to federalize public education, for example... that's not exactly a republican talking point nowadays...

Oh, Xris, thank you for this: "I have a ton of respect for you LM"... It is greatly appreciated! :-)  The feeling is mutual! :-)


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:40:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kennedy was fantastic (none / 0)

but deep inside, he was a social conservative. Abortion and gay rights weren't issues back then, but there's a lot of evidence if he had survived long enough to see Roe, he would've opposed it and probably be a staunch social conservative.

Having studied the presidential elections of the past, 1960 is the only election where I can honestly say I probably would've been seriously undecided. I'd like to think I would've gone to Kennedy in the end, and because of civil rights and the risk of Nixon over what appeared to be an impending war with Cuba, I probably would have, but it would've been far from a sure thing.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:47:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Second Coming of JFK? (none / 0)

Don't forgot that one of his SCOTUS appointments, Byron White, dissented in Roe v. Wade and Miranda v. Arizona, and also wrote the majority opinion in Bowers v. Georgia that upheld the criminality of homosexuality.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:43:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's the funny thing about judges. (none / 0)

Once appointed they are on their own (so to speak).  Some of our most liberal judges were inadvertently appointed by R's and some conservative by D's.  Just can never be sure in advance exactly how they will interpret the law.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 04:37:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's the funny thing about judges. (none / 0)

I hold out hope that Roberts will mellow with age.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 10:56:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's the funny thing about judges. (none / 0)

I have seen Roberts on the bench twice now, yes, he seems a bit more curious, where as Alito is really looking like an Idealogue.

But, I am not holding out any hope the Roberts "mellows" with age.

I do think a lot of folks are missing a bit of interesting court gossip, that is the on-going rumors of Scalia's health.

I would NOT be surprised if, besided replacing Ginsburg and Stevens, President Obama has a shot at replacing Scalia, perhaps in his second term?


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 11:52:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's the funny thing about judges. (none / 0)

I hadn't heard those rumors. It would be nice to have the spot, but I still hope we don't get it. Partly because I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but also because I'm not eager to see him martyred.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:14:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

Lordmike nice to hear your opinion. I think it's what happens after the campaign that counts. I think I understand what you want and I admire that but I think Obama is trying to make sure the Republicans can't attack him as being to far to the left. Plus he is still introducing himself to
a public that has never voted for a black man. He is playing it safe.
by Politicalslave on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:47:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

Xris I think you are right on!


by Politicalslave on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:07:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

DON"T ACCEPT THE VP SPOT, HILLARY--please!!! (none / 0)

PUMAs do not want her to be his VP and will refuse to vote for him even if she is his VP!  

We fear she will be blamed for any "mistakes" or "missteps" he might make as President.  To be sure, the "Clinton Rules" will apply, especially since Obama's camp was so willing to adopt them throughout the primaries.  HRC will be vilified by the Obama supporters and by the Right.

Basically, HRC can't win for losing, as her vote against the FISA BILL proved today when some in the Obama camp (at DKos) accused her of trying to upstage Obama by voting against it!  THIS WILL BE THE PATTERN THROUGHOUT AN OBAMA/CLINTON ADMINISTRATION.  

He should ask her to be his VP out of respect and she should turn him down and still campaign for him as she has said.  

Really!  He needs to pick someone else!!  


by trixta on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:53:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yeah..... (none / 0)

See, here's the trouble, though. You've made it clear that he's not getting your vote, so nobody cares anymore.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:03:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah..... (none / 0)

I think if Obama and Clinton had taken Cuomo's advice to agree on choosing the other as VP there would not have been such bad blood between the two camps at the end of the primaries.  I think this was a missed opportunity for the Dem party.

Clinton would have agreed to such a pact, I suspect, but Obama could not fathom such an idea.  He (and Michelle) made it crystal clear that he dislikes passionately Sen Clinton and her husband.

He needs to pick someone he's comfortable with.
And HRC needs to follow her own path--and votes in the Senate!  


by trixta on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:20:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah..... (none / 0)

I agree with the last part. I think she'd do best in the Senate. I think she would make a good Veep as well. That said, I'm not exactly concerned for Obama if she doesn't get it. Edwards offers more to the ticket as a whole, in my opinion. But either would be fine.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:23:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah..... (none / 0)

"He (and Michelle) made it crystal clear that he dislikes passionately Sen Clinton and her husband."

Ah, the mind of the PUMA at work.

It's kind of like a mini-stockholm syndrome situation.

I WOULD be fun to see Obama pick Clinton, and watch the SusanHu's and Larry Flowbees TRY to convince the NoQuarter crowd to stick with McCain.

What a hoot that would be!


On Nov 4th, Barack Obama officially ends the Southern Strategy....
by WashStateBlue on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 11:55:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re:VP (none / 0)

I want Hillary and I've made it clear I'm not supporting obama UNLESS Hillary is the VP.

so

I disagree with you, I want Hillary to be the VP and I WILL support an OBAMA/CLINTON ticket - in fact -

it would be awesome.

Disappointed? Yes. Do I think the best one is on top? No.

But I CAN NOT NOT vote FOR Hillary. So - Hillary on the ticket is better than NO HILLARY at all.

BTW - she CANNOT and WILL NOT be blamed for his misstakes - he owns those.

Is Edwards to be blamed for Kerry's loss? No.

90% of the time, no one votes for or against the VP.

However, in THIS case, it is almost guaranteed that Obama's support will go UP and he will GAIN supporters by chosing Hillary.

Will he lose some?

Maybe, but the upside is much greater.


by nikkid on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:18:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re:VP (none / 0)

How can one explain the negative reaction to her FISA vote by some Obama supporters?  HRC takes a progressive stand against the FISA BILL yet is then accused of trying to upstage Obama or of prolonging the primary fight.    

I think this knee-jerk reaction by Obama supporters to HRC votes -- or anything Clinton -- is a very bad sign indeed!  

She shouldn't have to put up with this kind of treatment from him, his supporters, or her own party, I'm just saying!


by trixta on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:31:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re:VP (none / 0)

There were only a few comments to that effect. There were far more comments made by HRC supporters speculating about people saying Hillary's vote was done to show up Obama than there were actual comments that said that.

There will always be a few people who try to carry on the primary fight long after it is over. Witness the people on Larry Johnson's hate site or the PUMA crowd. I don't think your posts on here give you much room to criticize people for knee-jerk reactions to others.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 10:44:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

PUMAs (2.00 / 1)

PUMAs make the mistake of thinking that they have some kind of personal connection to Clinton.  Kind of like stalkers get fixated on a famous person and think that the feeling is mutual.

Hillary is not a PUMA.  Hillary is a Democrat.  Whether the PUMAs vote Republican, don't vote, throw a tantrum at the Dem convention or whatever, the Democrats are going to win in November and Hillary will be out there with the rest of us making that happen.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 04:45:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary as VP? (2.00 / 3)

There was a time after the nomination battle that I was determined Hillary should be Obama's V.P choice, but things have changed. I admire her so much more than I do Obama at this point, and now believe that I prefer she continue carving out her own destiny apart from his.


by phoenixdreamz on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:01:41 PM EST

Re: Hillary as VP? (2.00 / 2)

I swing back and forth on that, but she may be in a position to bring attention to some issues more as a VP.  The VP position would have to be more like the Bill Clinton/Al Gore model, though, than the traditional figure head from the past to really make it a good thing for Hillary to do.  If it is the figure head VP status she would have, it would be such a major waste of intellect and possibilities, that it wouldn't be worth her while.


by Scotch on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:06:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary as VP? (2.00 / 2)

I'm conflicted too Scotch. In my heart of hearts, I know I'd be thrilled if it came to pass that she shared the ticket with Obama, but in light of potential variables such as the one you mention, I'm in a much better position now than I was to accept a different outcome confident in my faith that her star will continue to rise regardless :)


by phoenixdreamz on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:14:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary (2.00 / 3)

There are things that support this argument for Hillary as VP, and things that don't.  I personally think she already knows one way or another.  That would not be good of Obama to string her along without resolving that issue with her at the start.  However, they seemed at odds with FISA, and that makes me wonder how they could work as a team.

But the positive points in favor of it, are that Hillary is a great campaigner, and they can wave off any type of comments about their opposing views by saying that no matter what they differ on, they are worlds away from McCains philosophy and can easily find a compromise that would represent the true needs of voters.

The biggest factor in the possibility that Obama could pick her, is that after quite a bit of time, polls still say that a lot of her supporters are not moving to Obama, and although they might not be voting for McCain, there is a possiblity that they might not vote at all.  There is a very small margin in the latest national polls between Obama and McCain, and the only person who could increase that margin would be Clinton.  Probably all the voters who were with candidates previously , for instance Edwards supporters, or Biden's are already counted in the polls as being for Obama.  

The most important thing is that many activists who usually play a big roll in getting out the vote for the democratic candidate, may just not be active in this campaign because they are people who support Clinton and are sitting it out. They might vote for him, but will not put effort into campaigning or donating to him.  In other words, he could increase the effort behind him in the field by a huge amount and activate campaigners for his campaign by a large margin if he chose Clinton.  The umph would  definitely be felt and excitement and enthusiasm would lift his chances.  Beside the fact that there would be a large increase of people who would be willing to donate to him or them, again.  

I don't want to get my hopes up to be dashed, and I don't have a good history of having my dreams come true, so I'll just say it is highly unlikely that Clinton will be VP.


by Scotch on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:02:27 PM EST

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

Gore didn't exactly sit on his ass for 8 years.  He was an advisor and a hands on guy as well.  I have warmed to Hillary as VP and while she is not my top choice, she is in the top 4 (Clark, Edwards, Clinton, Schweitzer)


http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!
by yitbos96bb on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:26:15 PM EST

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (2.00 / 1)

An announcement could be coming any day now, based on the timing of Kerry's announcement in the last election. Edwards was named as Veep choice on July 12th, 2004. That gives them 4 months to the election. I think the timing is right.

The speculation about his choice is taking away from the campaign, which is where the focus should be. It would also make sense to name the Veep choice sooner rather than later, it if is Hillary. That choice will send the MSM into a tizzy for several days, if not longer. Better to get it out of the way now than to wait for August.

On the matter of choices, I don't have any better idea than anyone else on here. That doesn't stop me from making guesses. I've narrowed it down to 3 on what I think is the short-list. My guesses are, in no particular order, Clinton, Edwards, or Clark. I think Biden and Byah are long-shots. I really can't see any woman other than Hillary getting the nod. It would be too controversial.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:37:24 PM EST

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

McCain will name his VP first.  Kerry should have waited with Edwards so he got more media play out of it.  The Olympics are also coming up and there is no point naming your VP anytime close to that.  So I am betting if we don't hear something in the next week it won't be until after the Olympics.


by Xris on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:40:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

Don't be too sure about that. He's going on his overseas trip in a week or two, then the Olympics start in August. There's a narrow window of opportunity that they have to get through.

Plus, whoever is his VP could act as watchdog while he's away.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:51:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

I said if you don't hear anything in the next week or two then don't expect anything for a while.  That means I agreed when you said it might happen fast, but I am saying if not fast it could be a long time.  

I still don't think Hillary will be the VP for the laundry list of reasons people usually give, but I am not opposed to him picking her if it helps him win.  In the end I just want a win.


by Xris on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:55:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Me too! (none / 0)

I'll go you one further -- I want to stomp the Republicans into the ground.  I would love to see a landslide.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 04:49:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Me too! (2.00 / 1)

GFORD That's exactly how I feel. I want to punish
the Bush "legacy"
by Politicalslave on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:14:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Prior election Veep choice dates: (2.00 / 1)

I think this list backs up the idea that an announcement will be coming soon.

John Kerry - John Edwards July 12, 2004
Bob Dole - August 14, 1996
Bill Clinton - Al Gore July 9, 1992
George Bush - Dan Quayle August 17, 1988
Michael Dukakis - Lloyd Bentsen July 13, 1988
Walther Mondale - Geradine Ferraro July 12, 1984
Ronald Reagan - George H.W. Bush July 17, 1980


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:13:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prior election Veep choice dates: (2.00 / 1)

Yes, but when were the conventions in those years?


by rfahey22 on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:21:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Prior election Veep choice dates: (2.00 / 2)

Good point.

The 2004 announcement was a few days before the convention as was the 1992 announcement.
The two August announcements were at the conventions.
The 1988 Dem announcement was also shortly before the convention. So was the 1984 announcement of Ferraro.
The 1980 Bush announcement was made about a month before the convention.

I guess this can be interpreted in a number of ways. One way to view it is that most announcements come in July. Another way to see it is that most announcements come at or just before the conventions. Guess this wasn't as helpful as I thought it would be.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:31:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Links (2.00 / 1)

links links.

Here is one...

Obama, Clinton head to N.Y. with veep vetter

Candidate and former rival travel to fundraiser with Caroline Kennedy
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25611225/


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:45:09 PM EST

Re: Links (2.00 / 2)

I put one in there before the quote to TPM, but added yours in there too.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:57:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I say... (none / 0)

...add her to the ticket!!  Obama's campaign is playing Jedi Mind Tricks with us.  He moves to the center to cuddle up to the DLC and she moves to the left to gain the respect of the Progressives...Hmmmmm.


I can see Lake Erie from where I live, so can I please run the Navy?
by hootie4170 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:30:15 PM EST

Re: I say... (none / 0)

Wouldn't it be interesting if Obama picked Chuck Hegel (sp?) and McCain picked Sen Clinton?  Now that would be a presidential race worth watching!  


by trixta on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 12:07:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I say... (none / 0)

I would hate to be forced to vote against Senator Clinton. Unfortunately, I would be forced to in a scenario like the one you suggested. I would also hate to vote for a Republican as VP if Hagel was a VP nominee.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:33:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

About as interesting and as likely (none / 0)

As monkeys flying out of my butt.


McCain = Iraq. John McCain = overturn Roe.
by PantsB on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 11:28:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I say... (none / 0)

That is what I have been thinking for a couple of weeks now.

Obama is playing hard to the center trying to pick up indies and non-Bush Repugs.  Hillary can come in and play to the left with FISA and women's rights.  Democrats will be happy and come out in force.  Indies and Repubs that don't hate the Clinton's may stay for Obama.  We win in a landslide.

He will lose some Clinton hating repubs but there may not be that many people who would vote  
Obama/(generic Democrat) but not Obama/Clinton.  My mom is one of these people but I am working on her just in case.


McCain = bad Obama = good
by CAchemist on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:53:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If it is... (none / 0)

...it will come late in the cycle.  Sen. Obama will do his due diligence on other choices to see if there is some way he can avoid it (either by what he sees as a better pick, what he sees as a safer pick or circumstances).  I'm not saying he should or he shouldn't (I'm very divided on the issue), I'm just saying that in his mind it would be equivalent to paying bills or doing taxes--something to be done at the deadline.

I still say it is a bad idea if he can't get the library records, guarantees from President Clinton(having to do with communications strategy, outside income, behavior...) etc.  There are a lot of ducks to get in a row for this to get done.  

The absolute worst of all the worlds is that Senator Obama makes the move, it ends up being a complete push and he loses news cycles due to library donors coming forward or a President Clinton tabloid scandal.  

However, if these issues can be addressed, it would be a far superior pick to Biden.


Visiting the hopium dens proudly since 2007.
by AZphilosopher on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:44:34 AM EST

Re: Circumstantial Evidence Pointing to Hillary as (none / 0)

Anyone know whether the ticket could use Clinton's roughly $40 million in general election money?

Apparently Obama's GE goal is $200 million, $40 million would get him nearly a quarter of the way there.


by souvarine on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 08:48:06 AM EST

Re: Circumstantial Evidence (none / 0)

This is a complete no brainer and always has been. The only people who hate the idea are the Clinton haters and complete Obamanauts, often the same, but maybe Obama's policy flips are disconcerting the Obamanauts. The Clinton haters will never come around.


by ottovbvs on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 08:53:30 AM EST

ABC - Anybody but Clinton* (1.00 / 1)

I doubt Clinton will pass the vetting process.  

The party has unified without her as VP and she has a ton of baggage that Obama doesn't need to deal with.  

*This is hyperbole.  I don't literally mean anyone is better than Clinton.  For example I would rather have her as VP than Dick Cheney.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 08:56:18 AM EST

Candian Gal? (2.00 / 1)

I don't usually complain about troll ratings. But if you want to claim to be a paragon of free speech and a champion of the right to dissent then troll rating me for this comment makes your free speech efforts suspect.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:23:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Candian Gal? (2.00 / 1)

it was actually a mistake.  but then when i was about to change it to mojo, which is my only option now - i realized i was about to mojo a comment where you compare HRC to cheney so i stopped myself.

ill make it up to you and mojo a comment in the future if there is ever one that is not to similar to this.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:33:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Candian Gal? (none / 0)

Don't worry about it.  Have a great day.


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:43:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I think that Hillary will be Barack's VP (none / 0)

and the announcement will be at the convention.


by puma on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:04:31 AM EST

Re: I think that Hillary will be Barack's VP (none / 0)

Why wait until the convention and dilute the bump? Get a bump from the pick at the end of this month, say high single digit lead, then get another, monster bump from the convention that almost blows McCain away.


by conspiracy on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 10:40:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]