MyDD :: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace"

McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace"

by rfahey22, Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 10:58:57 AM EST

McCain at a town hall on Monday:

Americans have got to understand that we are paying present-day retirees with the taxes paid by young workers in America today. And that's a disgrace. It's an absolute disgrace, and it's got to be fixed.

The video is at TPM: http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/

As noted by Mother Jones, "'paying present-day retirees with the taxes paid by young workers' is pretty much the functional definition of Social Security. Always has been. That's what John McCain is calling an 'absolute disgrace.'"

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/arch ives/2008/07/8936_mccain_social_security _disgrace.html

For any of those sitting on the fence, you might want to ask yourselves if this is what you want in a president.

Tags: McCain, Social Security (all tags)

Permalink :: 39 Comments :: Post a Comment

The disgrace is Republic double-talk! (2.00 / 6)

Yeah. some Maverick this guy is?

He's just carrying on the 30 year war against the New Deal. Gover Nordquist would be proud.

BTW, I think the Obama camp should plaster this on every billboard up and down the Florida coastline.

Should play WELL down there, eh?

"Either you're the butcher Or the lamb but even so, Everybody pays as they go-Jakob Dylan"

by WashStateBlue on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:04:29 AM EST

Re: The disgrace is Republic double-talk! (2.00 / 4)

Yeah, this begs for an ad.

by rfahey22 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:05:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

youtube on CNN (2.00 / 1)

cafferty tearing up mccain on sS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vSiWDvSb G4
put this youtube in your diary

McCain - a serial Opportunist, from marriage to policy positions

by TarHeel on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 07:44:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: youtube on CNN (none / 0)

That was great. I hope Obama hits McCain on this tomorrow. I wish he did it today, but the FISA vote might have kept him busy.

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 07:54:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What? Obama is open to private accounts too! (none / 0)

by suzieg on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 05:35:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No, he isn't (none / 0)

That will be one more reason for you to vote for McCain in November.

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 09:48:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: youtube on CNN (none / 0)

When two grumpy old men collide!

by rfahey22 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 08:30:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But he's a straight talker, he's a maverick! (none / 0)

I honestly don't know what it is going to take to kill this meme, but at least McPain is doing everything he can to help.

I attended PUMACon '08!!!

by iohs2008 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 12:14:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The disgrace is Republic double-talk! (none / 0)

Great idea.

by Politicalslave on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:34:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (2.00 / 4)

I'd rec if I could. Keep this one up on top of the charts.

This was inevitable though; it's practically the only thing from the New Deal that hasn't been dismantled, and old Jesse Helms style attacks on the NEA aren't going to work this year, unless someone gets a federal grant to pee on a crucifix this year, and if that happens Obama will beat McCain to the punch.

We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.

by Jess81 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:19:41 AM EST

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (2.00 / 3)

Huh. This is an easy rec.

by MeganLocke on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:55:29 AM EST

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (2.00 / 3)

His comments were nothing short of Oblivious!!! This guy is a menace.

by linfar on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 11:55:52 AM EST

If he was trying to make the point that (2.00 / 1)

"present day retirees" should be paid Social Security with taxes paid by "already retired" workers, then he is more out of touch with reality than meets the eye. This guy is a freakin' mess. He is literally all over the place on every issue.

Obama supporter working to defeat McCain.

by Rumarhazzit on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 12:22:13 PM EST

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (2.00 / 3)

Nice! I wonder how all those voters 65+ feel about this.

Its going to be so much fun making sure all of them know McCain thinks their only income is disgraceful.

Maybe if they all had married someone who owns a beer company they wouldn't be so annoying with their needs and demands. I guess McCain is your typical Republican who believes strongly in hard work; those 85 year old women need to stop ripping us off and go get jobby jobs.

But, what would McCain do? Had he not married into wealth and wasn't allowed to get 'disgraceful' checks from the government? He can't even raise his arms! I guess he could take the place of that retarded person, welcoming you to walmart.

Personally, when I think 'disgrace' and 'government', Social Security is the last thing to come to mind. Keating 5, Bribes, Halliburton, Iraq, DOJ........

by MKyleM on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 12:26:51 PM EST

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (2.00 / 1)

This is a generational thing.

Young people don't get it but older people were raised that its a disgrace for multi-Millionaires like my Parents to collect SS from poor folks like many here.

McCain's point which I can only guess because all the clip posters cut that part out (curious they acted in concert) is likely that SS needs to save that money in interest bearing accounts.

To be fair the current SS surplus has been raided by presidents and its fair for the country to be paying that back.

But understand that he understands what he is tapping into.

Many SS retires from the last generation with a saving ethic don't like the idea that their kids who live off credit cards are paying their retirement despite being much poorer.

There is a solid case to be made that SS savings accounts isn't good and Josh at talking points is passionate about this. But lying about what the other side is saying via distorting the quote only saps your credibility.

by dtaylor2 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 12:33:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (none / 0)

To be fair the current SS surplus has been raided by presidents and its fair for the country to be paying that back.

You don't seem to understand how the SS surplus works. It is invested in US government securities because those are the safest investments on the planet. No one raids the trust fund. It should perhaps be added to the budget deficit but that is a different issue.

I hope that clears up your confusion. Please feel free to ask me any questions. I don't mean to brag, but have spend a lot of time arguing about SS with Republicans so I am well versed on this subject.

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 12:41:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (none / 0)

You don't seem to understand how the time value of money works.

Money invested at a 2.5% rate of return vs inflation for 30 years gives a return of 209% vs money invested at ~9% above inflation (the historic ave for stocks) gives a return of 1326%

Basically SS is invested so as to get 7 times less money than if the same money were invested in stocks.

Which was almost certainly McCain's point.

But I don't know because they cut it off...

by dtaylor2 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 01:19:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you don't understand (2.00 / 2)

IRAs, money markets stocks etc... are for investing...

social security INSURANCE - is insurance to make sure old people aren't eating dog food and sleeping under freeway overpasses.

it is "Insurance" not an investment vehicle

McCain - a serial Opportunist, from marriage to policy positions

by TarHeel on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 01:28:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (none / 0)

The only, repeat only, good thing about Social Security is the fact that the benefits are guaranteed. If you and John McCain want to turn it into a 401(k) plan then you are basically ending Social Security as we know it.

Also, inflation risk is reduced or eliminated by the fact that current dollars are being paid into the trust fund by everyone who is presently working. You also get the benefit of not having to borrow more money from non-SSTF sources if you invest the SSTF in gov't securities instead of Wall Street. If inflation is a big problem then the rate you will have to pay to borrow that money will be more than you can earn on it.

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 01:40:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (none / 0)

You need some of it say 20% to be invested because generations are not the same size. And more importantly do not live the same life span after retirement....that is what is really killing SS.

You also need some form of better return rate generating mechanism to account for the indexing to wages.

Taking inflation adjusted dollars in example below, ie equivalent 1980 purchasing power for example.

Baby boomers paid SS for their parents who lived X years past retirement and gen X will pay SS for baby boomers who are a larger generation and who also live X +Y years past retirement.

The combination of the larger generation but more importantly the higher fraction of a workers life spent in retirement is what is killing SS.

If I earn 100 Dollars a year and then wages increase to 200 dollars a year due to some new found productivity increase ie its not inflation. Then I get a windfall in retirement because my payments are indexed to the next generation's earning.

But if I earn 200 dollars a year and then wages drop to 100 dollars a year just as I retire then I am screwed because my payments drop to the new lower standard of living.

So having a small fraction of SS invested would allow excess monies to offset generational size differences and wage changes and changes in lifespan.

I agree that in general the based on work force idea is very inflation hedged but the pay outs factor in wage inflation without factoring in life span inflation.

Simply moving SS back a month a year until it is balanced is likely all that is needed. Unless invested money can generate enough wealth to offset the increase life span.

The other alternative is if we can reverse aging such that old people are "young" enough to re-enter the work force in mass it would totally eliminate the problem.

by dtaylor2 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 02:10:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (none / 0)

Every dollar of the SSTF that we invest is one dollar we have to replace either trough borrowing, increasing tax revenue or decreasing gov't spending. If we replace that $ by borrowing then the needed ROI on the investment is going to be increased by the interest rate we pay on the debt. That is going to make it next to impossible to make it worth our while to invest that money.

That is the main practical reason why it is isn't an option to invest the SSTF in Wall Street. If you add the problem of market risk and the problem of politicians deciding what to invest in to that equation it makes that idea a really, really bad one.

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 03:45:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (2.00 / 1)

Governments can't spend more than they make as a general rule.

The SSTF has allowed us to think that we don't have a problem until its almost too late.

We need to cut spending or raise taxes regardless of SSTF.

by dtaylor2 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:31:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (none / 0)

Governments can't spend more than they make as a general rule.

Sure they can. That is why they borrow money all the time.

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 06:29:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Only 3rd world government spend more than they mak (none / 0)

The only way governments can spend more than they make is if someone is willing to lend them money.

The people lending them money need to either believe that they will get their money back or understand that the money lent is a tribute that will never be fully repaid or repaid in inflated money worth less than fair market value etc.

So in the long run either governments need to balance their budgets and pay their bills or they need to have subjects who are willing to pay tribute.

There is a third republican talking point that all value springs from the American economy and so long as it grows fast enough we can lose money for ever but the money will never dry up because our economy alone in all the world is the engine of growth because we live here. This is a fairy tale for people who are afraid of fairies.

by dtaylor2 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 08:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Only 3rd world government spend more than they (none / 0)

Governments don't need to borrow money to spend more than they take in. All they need to do is print more.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson

by MS01 Indie on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 08:20:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Only 3rd world government spend more than they (none / 0)

Mugabe is doing just that.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/02/world/ africa/02zimbabwe.html?n=Top/News/World/ Countries%20and%20Territories/Zimbabwe

The results are VERY VERY VERY Bad.

by dtaylor2 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 08:30:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (none / 0)

you can add to this that investment in the market may not be a smart idea as the baby boomers retire, beause the sheer number of persons at the prime saving ages of 35-64 is a huge factor in driving the market up. As the boomers retire, the market will begin to dwindle because the number of investors will decline. I think we're already beginning to see start of this.

by slynch on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 05:46:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (none / 0)

This is a very good point.

From a strictly Dow Jones or S&P 500 your case is very solid.

But the issue with investment is that they capital invested is usually used to increase productivity in some fashion. If you didn't trust the free market you could have a Government fund that invested in green energy or something. The money from new power plants could be used to pay for SSTF for example.

Ultimately its the increase in productivity that provides the wealth to support SS.

If the ~20% invested in the market was totally lost in $$ terms but spurred over ~30 years a ~20% increase in total economy productivity it would still produce the same level of economic prosperity to the retiree that the SSTF would.

However because I believe in your point in the limited sense its very important that we never put 100% into the markets as they will drop when the baby boomers retire.

by dtaylor2 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 08:09:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (none / 0)

Sorry, my comment below was supposed to be for this comment specifically. I screwed it up.

by MKyleM on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 12:45:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (2.00 / 1)

SS's survival is in fact attributable to the fact that rich people such as your parents receive those checks. If SS were to become only a program for the poor, it would ultimately be marginalized and perhaps cut or otherwise transformed.

Anyway, feel free to read the entire article for yourself, I've given you several links that you could easily click on. Perhaps it's just easier for you to make up what you want McCain to say than to acknowledge that he just doesn't get it.

by rfahey22 on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 12:47:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (2.00 / 3)

Look, I want to beat Republicans; they are the enemy within. They lie, cheat, and steal from real hard-working Americans.

I have no problem at all with distorting their statements.

"John McCain thinks the idea of Social Security is disgraceful": that should be put on tens of millions of robo calls, signs, TV and mail and radio ads, etc. Shout it from the mountain tops. Every Dem who appears on television should repeat it at least once every 15 seconds.

You can talk until you are blue in the face about what Josh thinks and a handful of seniors think about SS. The fact is undeniable: scaring the shit out of seniors with the prospect of losing their only income works, has worked since it was created, and will continue to work in this election and beyond.

by MKyleM on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 12:44:29 PM EST

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (2.00 / 2)

Social Security has been the untouchable third rail of politics for generations. McCain just handed the Dems a wonderful sound-byte that will be used against him from now to November. Watch for a clarification from the McCain camp within 24 hours. There is probably one out there already. They must know they will get flamed for this.

"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson

by MS01 Indie on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 01:19:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (2.00 / 1)

Oh, you know it! Every single consultant on the McCain campaign had a panic attack the moment they heard or read the words.

And, you're right, I'm sure McCain and his minions will be all over tv, flopping around like fish on a boat. But, I'd bet the damage is done.

I will go so far as to say this may destroy whatever prayer he had of winning, considering the fact that any winning coalition for him would involve a sizeable break of seniors in his favor.

I'm starting to think McCain off-script is worse than Bush off-script. At least Bush has a sense of humor and everyone always knew Bush was an idiot; any event that didn't involve his drooling was a success.

by MKyleM on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 01:33:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain is Right... (none / 0)

Though saying so out loud it the sort of thing that kills you in politics.

by Whash on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 03:38:18 PM EST

Re: McCain is Right... (none / 0)

Why is he right?

Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius

by Blue Neponset on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 03:45:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain is Right... (none / 0)

Why do you think we have social security in the first place?

by Skaje on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 03:52:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (2.00 / 2)

What's the word - are people reporting on this yet?

Lately cable news has been making me break out in hives.

by Jordache on Wed Jul 09, 2008 at 07:56:30 PM EST

An ABSOLUTE Disgrace (2.00 / 1)

I'm sorry but the title of this diary is wrong. McCain called the funding mechanism of social security to be an ABSOLUTE disgrace.

Some days I don't think this guy isn't going to crack 40 percent.

by wengler on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 01:37:37 AM EST

Re: McCain: Social Security "A Disgrace" (2.00 / 2)

The only "disgrace" of Social Security is a 72 year old, multi-millionaire running for president who doesn't have one whit of sense how desperate millions of his generation are for that disgraceful monthly income.

by RickWn on Thu Jul 10, 2008 at 02:08:09 AM EST

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