McCain and the 50 State Strategy

So I was reading over some of Marc Ambinder's posts from June and came across a report that some McCain insiders believe they will NEVER be ahead of Obama in the popular vote and yet win the election (emphasis made by Ambinder).  This thought process jives with Rick Davis's earlier statement to the effect that Obama's strategy was not one to win the general election and statements by other Republicans from traditionally red states laughing at the notion that Obama could turn their states blue.  In other words, McCain's camp doesn't seem to have much respect for the "50 state strategy" as a general election strategy as it is more designed to win the popular vote, rather than the electoral college.

Unfortunately, I think there is some merit to the claims allegeldy made public or in secret by McCain insiders.  I'd place the chances of Obama winning the popular vote at around 80% right now given his outstanding organization; however, I'd place his chances right now of winning the general election at 55%.  Why so much lower?

If you look at the Rasmussen state polls, Obama is running up outrageous margins in the Northeast, Illinois, California, Minnesota and the Pacific Northwest as McCain is not within single digts, and in some cases not even within twenty points, in any of these states.  Obama is also performing significantly better than previous Dems in the red states where he performed well in the primaries, though he is losing by the same margin as other non-Southern Dems in the red states won by Hillary Clinton).  Why the "concern?"

The concern lies with the fact that he's up only five, when the lead should be much greater given Obama's overperformance in the tradionally blue and red states.  What that indicates to me, and I could very well be wrong, is that he's underperforming, relative to his performance in the tradionally blue and red states, in the "swing" states, which accounts for why his lead is smaller than what it should be at this point.

People will argue that the benefit of the 50-state strategy is that McCain will be stretched out in terms of how much defense he will have to play.  McCain's camp likely disagrees; Schmidt and company probably believe that they can keep red states such as North Carolina, Indiana, Georgia, North Dakota, Alaska, and Montana red with little to no defense as such states are so red, conservative, and stocked with Republicans that no matter how much time and money Obama invests in these states, they will stay red by 3-5 points regardless.  As you know, losing by 3-5 counts the same as losing by double digits in the electoral college.  To win even one of these states, Obama would need a 15-20 point swing, something that the McCain camp and some pubs likely find impossible.  Thus, the number of states that McCain actually feels he has to defend vigorously may be close to the same number of states that Bush had to vigorously defend in 2004.  The map may not have changed too much after all.

Without a doubt, Virginia, Colorado, and Nevada are true swing states and the McCain camp has acknowleged this reality.  Obama should already have Iowa and New Mexico in the bag because they were Gore states in 2000.  It's tough to get a handle on what either camp thinks about Florida and Missouri.

In conclusion, I'm not thrilled about Obama's 50-state strategy not because he's trying to turn really, really red states blue but rather, he's leaving out states that were staples to Big Daddy's big electoral college victories in 1992 and 1996: LA, AR, WV, and KY.  Jay Cost has a great article on why it's dangerous to write off these states because of the dramatic regisration advantage that Dems have over pubs in these four states. http://www.realclearpolitics.com/horsera ceblog/2008/07/obamas_chicago_campaign.h tml.

Anyway, if Obama's VP choice didn't matter, I am predicting a 49.5-44 popular vote victory and a 306-232 electoral college victory.  If the popular vote win for Obama is "only" 48.5-46 on election night, I expect we'll be in a similar place to where were four years ago: at 264 electoral college votes, down 50,000 in Ohio, waiting to see if we got the necessary turnout in Cleveland.



Display:


Re: McCain and the 50 State Strategy (2.00 / 4)

Obama can't win KY, AR, WV and KY... the racism is just too strong in the Appalachian states, the democratic base in LA was wiped out in Katrina, and I'm guessing that you are upset that Hillary couldn't challenge AR.

The fact is, though, all Obama has to do is win ONE of the following and he's in the white house.  VA, NC, GA (where he is tied at the moment), MT, ND, AK,  MO... I'm sure I'm missing a few...

McCain, on the other hand must win ALL of them! He needs to also win one of the following: OH, MI, PA, then ALL of the rest including IA, NM, CO, etc.

By challenging traditional red states, Obama is hedging his bets, giving him multiple ways to win, while McCain has only a couple paths of victory and the odds are against him.

Would you prefer that our entire election rest on Ohio again?  I live here, and I wouldn't take that bet.  This state is as racist as it gets.

I won't even talk about the benefits downticket and the advantages needed for redistricting after 2010.


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 12:58:37 AM EST

Re: McCain and the 50 State Strategy (none / 0)

The point is that McCain doesn't believe under any circumstances can Obama win Georgia, North Carolina, Montana, and Indiana.  Obama is actually down ten in Georgia according to Rasmussen, who is a lot more reliable than the Newt Gingrich wannabe at Insider Advantage.  I cannot get a read on how close the McCain and Obama camps consider Missouri and Florida.  Obama's VP choice may change his focus.

I agree that McCain has to win all three: Ohio, Colorado, and Virginia to become president assuming Obama holds onto Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin, which seem to be the only three blue states where McCain will actually play realistic offense.


by Blazers Edge on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:03:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and the 50 State Strategy (2.00 / 2)

It sounds like McCain is authorizing the 4 state strategy... put all resources into MI, OH, PA, VA...  It makes sense, he doesn't have the money to compete in all places... If Obama makes a serious run in ANY of those red states, it's over!

I think it is definitely possible for him to win MT, an electoral vote in NE, and make it close in GA, and if Palin is not the VP in Alaska, I think he can have a great shot there, too!  Remember, the key to his strategy is new voter registration... just as Rove's "underground volunteer" army helped Bush win the white house in 2004 under everybody's noses, our group is doing the same...

The fact is, if you play the odds, one or two of those states will go our way if we pay attention to them...  As a gambling man, you'd think that McCain would understand that... but, I guess he's really short stacked and has to commit to the pot even if his cards stink.


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 02:06:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and the 50 State Strategy (2.00 / 1)


I guess I'm not sure what this diary is really saying. Do you think McCain has the better footing here? The guy is desperately trying to hold onto Ohio and Florida and pick up Michigan. Meanwhile, Obama can lose both Ohio AND Florida and still have a realistic shot at the win.

I doubt Obama thinks he has more than a slim chance of winning Georgia or NC, and Indiana and Montana are perhaps even money at best. If he wins states like these, then it's a sign that this will be a landslide.

But his plan is to put states in play if only to spread McCain's thin resources. Keep it competitive long enough, and who knows if landslide fever takes hold and high Dem turnout steals a win? And even if he doesn't win a state like Alaska or North Dakota, he still forces McCain to spend money there. That's a huge victory in itself.

If you want to see the practical application of this, remember what happened in the PA primary. Clinton won, but Obama forced her to spend herself into virtual bankruptcy.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 02:36:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and the 50 State Strategy (2.00 / 4)

take missouri for example:

there are 32 events listed on mybo w/in 50 miles of my zipcode in the next month or so.  there are 10 organizing fellows in kansas city alone (i know there are quite a few in st louis and in columbia and springfield as well) and many others on paid staff that i have met at various voter registration drives.  the missouri page on obama's website has 15 pages of blogs dating back to august of 07.

when i went to mccain's website (ugh.. it's terrible) to see how i can get involved in missouri, i got this message:

Thank you for your interest in our campaign. One of the great things about this campaign is the activism and support of people from all over the country and from all walks of life. Please fill out the form to the right if you would like to get involved in John McCain's campaign, get the latest updates from the campaign trail, and receive invitations to campaign events in your area.

Midwest Regional Office

Midwest Regional Headquarters
2775 86th Street
Urbandale, IA 50322
Office number is 515-418-9270
Office fax is 515-276-9255
Email Missouri staff at missouri@johnmccain.com

iowa?

obama has boots in the ground and i do not feel at all that the campaign is not taking swing states seriously enough because they are too focused on montana.  

the best way to alleviate your concerns is to get involved in the campaign and make it happen!


by elie on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:01:31 AM EST

Iowa and New Mexico (none / 0)

are in the bag or should be; Obama should win all the Gore states + New Hampshire (where he has a double digit lead on McCain) without too much heartache.  The challenge for Obama will be plucking one of the Big 3: Ohio, Virginia, Colorado (I have him taking all three by the way, though my projection of 306 electoral votes could change depending on the VP selection).


by Blazers Edge on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:07:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Iowa and New Mexico (2.00 / 1)

i agree.  i think the open convention will do wonders in colorado, though i worry about CO if romney is the mccain veep pic.  virginia looks really strong as well.  i am not at all confident that we will take ohio...

i mentioned iowa because i am shocked that to get involved with the mccain campaign in missouri i have to call a regional office in iowa.  his campaign is just not ready for barack obama.  we have been intensely active in voter registration and cavassing all over this state for weeks.

thats why i am not worrying about the super-red-states part of the 50 state strategy.  he is certainly covering his bases in the swing states.  far, far better than kerry did 04.


by elie on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:18:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and the 50 State Strategy (2.00 / 1)

The concern lies with the fact that he's up only five, when the lead should be much greater given Obama's overperformance in the tradionally blue and red states.

He's only up 5 in National Polls.

So?

How's he doing in the E.V. map?

Polls are not worth squat but if you're going to be "concerned" at least be worried about the right kind of polls.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:07:14 AM EST

Re: McCain and the 50 State Strategy (none / 0)

if you read the post spaceman, you'd see that my "concrn" lies with my belief that Obama is underperforming in swing states given his overwhelming advantage in the most of the Gore states + New Hampshire and his sigificant overperformance in red states that have a miniscule chance of turning blue this November.


by Blazers Edge on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:10:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and the 50 State Strategy (2.00 / 1)

I did read your post.

What that indicates to me, and I could very well be wrong, is that he's underperforming, relative to his performance in the tradionally blue and red states, in the "swing" states, which accounts for why his lead is smaller than what it should be at this point.

You use the National Polls as the basis for your "concern",  then you say it's due to underperforming in the swing states. even though he's leading in most of them (see EV polls).


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:27:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and the 50 State Strategy (none / 0)

His margin over McCain in the rasmussen polls in the three most important states of the election, Colorado, Virginia, and Ohio are slim: (+2, +1, -1, respectively according to Rasmussen).

All I'm sayng is that the McCain camp probably believes it will not have to put up anything more than a cursory defense of the really red states that Obama is hoping to turn blue and will not need to spend much time and money to keep those states red.  They are willing to win these states by only five points because winning by 5 counts the same as winning by 20 in the electoral college.


by Blazers Edge on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:44:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain and the 50 State Strategy (none / 0)

If you look at the Rasmussen state polls, Obama is running up outrageous margins in the Northeast, Illinois, California, Minnesota and the Pacific Northwest as McCain is not within single digts, and in some cases not even within twenty points, in any of these states.

Al Gore won New York by 25% while winning the nationwide popular vote by 0.5%. I wouldn't worry about Obama's big margins in blue states; they're not skewing his nationwide lead.


by Angry White Democrat on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 01:08:32 AM EST

Re: Way Way too early for polls (2.00 / 1)

We are way too early to be putting X,Y & Z states in either Obama's or McCain's column.

The only polls that matter in these battleground states are the ones in October !!! ( Not July nor August)

We are only in the 2nd week of July !!!

We have a very long way to go.

With that said, this is Obama's race to lose.

Record Money advantage, historic record GOP low in public opinion, the worse economy in 4 decades, the most unpopular war since vietnam, record breaking gas prices, worst real estate slump in the last 25 years. ( & probably modern history if the decline continues.

If we cannot take the White House in November with these kinds of odds, then, we will all witness a democratic party "civil war"after November.

I am not nervous now. But by mid October, everyone should look closely at polls in states like VA,OH,MO,CO, PA,MI,NH

Either we will all witness a historic victory with Obama in November or it would be the biggest wasted & extremely disappointing white house opportunity in the last 4 decades.

We shall see!


by labanman on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 02:35:39 AM EST

Re: McCain and the 50 State Strategy (none / 0)

It's possible that Obama could win in Louisiana, but it's a shell of its former Democratic self post-Katrina. As for AR, WV and KY, it's curious that you state that these are somehow must-win states. It sounds like what a certain campaign was saying ad infinitum during the primary.

Remember that Kerry lost all three and still came within 130,000 Ohio votes of winning.

Gore lost all three and won the presidency.

Sure, it'd be nice to win all 50 states. But Louisiana's a changed state, and the other three you mention are nothing more than smaller states that had inflated rolls in a dramatic primary.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 02:40:25 AM EST

Re: McCain and the 50 State Strategy (none / 0)

Don't think you're right about this, and here is why.  Polls right now show that Obama is running well among indies in swing states (his main problem up until now has been solidifying his support within the Dem base).  The last Democratic presidential candidate who got a majority of the indie vote was (drum roll please) Jimmy Carter in 1976.  

While I don't have time to develop this argument, people vastly underestimate the benefit which Clinton got from the indie vote being siphoned off by Perot in '92 and '96.  His two victories didn't turn on his winning the center to nearly the extent many think (short story, a Dem can win states like Montana and Georgia by turning out the Dem base IF there is a third candidate who will win the votes of GOP-leaning indies).  

What polls now show is that Obama is doing pretty well winning the votes of indies.  Eg. in Ohio Survey USA has him beating McCain 45-39, with 16% undecided.  And the more significant a role indies play in a state's electoral layout, the larger seems to be this advantage (eg. in Colorado Quinnipiac has him up 51-39).  Not aiming for any sort of definitive analysis, just picked two polls which were easy for me to grab, but if you spend more time with these polls you'll see this is true across the board.

Obama's problems, up to this point, is with the Dem base (this is why he's leading McCain by only 5 points).  Your suggestion that he's running up huge tallies in the Democratic heartland isn't really true (or, to be fair, the situation is more complicated, he's having the same problems with the Dem base, eg. in CA only gets 78% of Dem voters right now but is troucing McCain with indies, 57-33).

In this environment, a 50-state strategy is the only one which makes sense, because the likelihood that indies will give him victories in states like Iowa, Colorado, New Mexico, etc , might be greater than the likelihood that he'll win over the Dem base in states like West Virginia and even Ohio (I mean in the numbers he needs).

My real position on this, actually, is the following: why choose?  why not go for both?  Because it's possible Obama will win on both fronts (polls right now don't show him losing Ohio).

Where we differ, I suspect, is in our read of these Dem voters in places like West Virginia and indie voters in places like the upper Midwest and the Mountain states.

First argument: I'm not convinced that so-called Dem voters in Appalachia are now totally beyond the GOP "god and guns" pitch (which Bush used so effectively in 2000 and 2004).  If the election turns on these votes, can we agree, Hillary Clinton probably would have been the more effective candidate, but I'm not convinced she had the lock on these voters some of her supporters think (the primary is not the general, and there's a social dimension here which might simply make states like Ohio and Florida difficult for Dems to win, period).

Second argument: I think this indie preference for Obama over McCain, though, is real, and is rooted in two phenomena: the extent to which the GOP has tarnished its own brand (Iraq, the crappy economy, etc.); the extent to which Obama, legitimately, has presented himself as being a fresh face, someone who has some distance from the DC establishment, etc. (which doesn't work in places like West Virginia, but is powerful when you get West of the Mississippi, or are pitching to voters who don't have strong ties to either party, etc.).

So once again--why choose?  The so-called 50-state strategy is really just a play for these indies, younger voters, Hispanics, etc., who don't live in the Democratic heartland (and Obama's numbers among these voters, if one believes polls, right now, range from good to phenomenal, eg. among voters aged 18-29 he seems to be beating McCain 2/1 or more across the board).

Even with Obama's problems among the Dem base, think he could win by a landslide (and essentially for the same reasons Reagan did, if indies finally decide that they're fed up with the GOP, period, and jump to him during the last two weeks by 2-1 or more, which I think is quite possible, he could win by 10 points or more).

But the close scenarios?  Ironically, I don't think we'll be waiting on results from Ohio.  Call it a hunch, but the more likely outcome, it seems to me, is that Obama loses Ohio and Florida (not talking about debacles, just by a few points) but then pulls it out because he wins states like Colorado, New Mexico, etc. (and the funniest scenario would be if Alaska put him over the top--but, again, think people are underestimating his strength in states like this, where young and disaffiliated voters make up a larger percentage of the electorate than what you find in the East).  

It's a different map (but my prediction, again, is that he'll win these other swing states, but more off of the votes of Indies than what seems to be a Dem base which includes a segment which either mistrusts or doesn't like him all that much).

 


by IncognitoErgoSum on Tue Jul 08, 2008 at 12:05:47 PM EST


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