When I Think Of New Politics...

(Cross-posted at Clintonistas for Obama and DailyKos)

As a Clinton supporter, I think I had it wrong for a long time.

I heard Obama supporters talking about a new kind of politics - a kind which incorporated hope and change. For some reason, I decided this was a silly notion; I scoffed at Barack Obama's message: It was too idealistic, too vague. What did "Vote Hope" really mean? How had Obama rallied such a massive base of support around the nebulous concept of "hope"? Maybe that's part of what used to frustrate me - I simply didn't understand. Did his supporters believe his campaign would always stay positive? Every politician has to fight back against the opposition. They all get down in the mud, so didn't that make Obama just another typical politician?

It took me a very long time to formally "come to Obama," and an even longer time to understand his message of hope. I was looking at it the wrong way - I was trying to turn hope into something concrete and measurable, and I'd forgotten that some things can't be clinically analyzed or quantified. Hope isn't a static or tangible thing because it means something different to everyone. I do have hope for a new type of politics and a new kind of president in Barack Obama. I have faith in his ability to win the general election. He believes in the 50-State Strategy, and he perfected and implemented it with remarkable efficacy during the primaries. I have no doubt he'll use similar tactics in the fall as he makes the GOP fight for every stronghold. I have faith in his ability to govern and lead. He built his phenomenal campaign from the ground up and, with the help of his enthusiastic supporters, turned it into an unstoppable force.


He understands the true meaning of modern, people-powered politics. The sum he raised from small donors was unprecedented, and since signing up at his website, I've begun to understand why his supporters always felt so involved in his campaign. The number of emails which arrive in my mailbox from various listservs is staggering. (Of course, that's partially my fault for signing up for multiple groups and selecting the "receive all emails" option.)

Savvy politician though he is, he still isn't of the same mold as most of the other presidential candidates. Obama made a pleasant impression on me at one point during the Nevada debate. When Tim Russert asked him for his greatest weakness, I remember feeling that his answer was almost endearing:

I ask my staff member to hand me paper until two seconds before I need it because I will lose it. And my desk and my office doesn't look good. I've got to have somebody around me who is keeping track of that stuff. And that's not trivial; I need to have good people in place who can make sure that systems run. That's what I've always done, and that's why we run not only a good campaign, but a good U.S. Senate office. - Barack Obama

That was the first time Barack made me laugh - not because his answer was stupid, but because it was so painfully honest. As for my candidate and John Edwards? They gave beauty pagent answers. They each took one of their strengths and carefully crafted them into weaknesses:

I think weakness, I sometimes have a very powerful emotional response to pain that I see around me, when I see a man like Donnie Ingram (ph), who I met a few months ago in South Carolina, who worked for 33 years in the mill, reminded me very much of the kind of people that I grew up with, who's about to lose his job, has no idea where he's going to go, what he's going to do. I mean, his dignity and self-respect is at issue. And I feel that in a really personal way and in a very emotional way. And I think sometimes that can undermine what you need to do. - John Edwards

So I have tried to create opportunities, both on an individual basis, intervening to help people who have no where else to turn, to be their champion. And then to make those changes. And I think I can deliver change. I think I understand how to make it possible for more people to live up to their God-given potential. I get impatient. I get, you know, really frustrated when people don't seem to understand that we can do so much more to help each other. Sometimes I come across that way. I admit that. I get very concerned about, you know, pushing further and faster than perhaps people are ready to go. - Hillary Clinton

Hearing their answers, I experienced just the faintest sense of disappointment. As much as I adored them both, it struck me that their responses were very... old Washington.

Obama created a unique environment at his rallies and events. He created an atmosphere of unity and trust so complete that people were willing to pass their own babies through the crowd to reach him. The first time I heard about it, I was slightly appalled until I saw the gentleness and meticulous care with which his supporters handled other people's children. It's a scene I watched with no small amount of wonder and amazement.

Baby surfing!

Hillary Clinton inspired me because she showed me that a strong woman can do anything. Barack Obama inspires me because he showed me that the American Dream is still possible, still viable, still within reach. His story is inspiring: A young man, half white, half African American, who was brought up by a single mother who understood the meaning of a financially strapped existence - and yet, he defeated Hillary Clinton in the primary and is poised to become the first African American president of the United States. He has said that his story wouldn't be possible in any other country on earth. He is the ultimate embodiment of the American Dream. By a strange and poignant coincidence, he will be formally nominated on August 28, 2008, the 45th anniversary of Martin Luther King, Jr.'s I Have A Dream speech, and through that nomination, part of Dr. King's dream will become a reality - a reality which will be reinforced when Obama triumphs in November. If a victory like that won't put you on the hope train, I can't imagine what would.

So maybe his candidacy means something slightly different to everyone, and in my case, Barack Obama gives me hope because he is a symbol for those of us who long ago lost faith that the American Dream was still alive. Finally, I think I'm fairly certain I understand what the slogan "Vote Hope" really means.



Display:


That was beautiful. (2.00 / 7)

I still don't like to think of it as hope, because it's still very much simply what politics is supposed to be. You hit the nail on the head with some of the problems I had with Clinton. Though I don't like that Edwards answer either, I know where he comes from and it's close enough to me (my father and grandfather were both in the carpet/textile business in NW Georgia) that it's nearly enough. I never had that kind of connection with Hillary, though I suppose if I did, I'd feel differently.

But yeah, Obama, I think it has been said, has a knack for saying something ordinary and making it sound big. But it's not even that, it's that he tries to make sure the things he says have meaning. He can take something long understood to be a platitude, digest it, and translate into something that has meaning once again. And he has a sort of personal honesty/integrity that I greatly respect. There's a story of when he was running for Senate in Illinois and an aide said that it would help him with rural voters if he went hunting. And he said no, because he'd never been a hunter, and he wasn't going to try and win votes by pretending to be something he wasn't. I hope he still tries to stick to that.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:10:27 PM EST

Re: That was beautiful. (2.00 / 2)

Very well said.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:57:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nicely said... (2.00 / 10)

I now understand how you feel.

So maybe his candidacy means something slightly different to everyone, and in my case, Barack Obama gives me hope because he is a symbol for those of us who long ago lost faith that the American Dream was still alive. Finally, I think I'm fairly certain I understand what the slogan "Vote Hope" really means.

While I still get pissed off when folks laugh at me when I tell them Hillary Clinton truly inspired me, I can now understand why so many people are inspired by Barack Obama. His message may be simple, but it's certainly powerful.


We shall overcome!
by atdleft on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:10:27 PM EST

Re: BO= "Just words" (1.00 / 11)

Flip-flopping on core progressive values is not "powerful."


by Xov Wonk on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:13:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BO= "Just words" (1.76 / 13)

Xov Wonk.
It's not just his name that's backwards.

It must suck to be such a negative nelly....does the sun ever shine where you live?
Do you ever have anything positive to say...or do you just get your jollies by taking dumps in positive diaries?


by Kysen on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:18:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BO= "Just words" (2.00 / 2)

heheheh


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:02:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BO= "Just words" (2.00 / 10)

Yes, KnowVox, how could anyone forget the powerful crusade against the FISA amendment that you've led for months now?

There is a certain contingent here that is justifiably upset over recent events.  There are others that just use those events to satisfy a grudge.


by rfahey22 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:52:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She inspired me, too, (2.00 / 13)

and I've never understood why people didn't think she was inspirational. You heard that story about the 90-year-old woman who was taken to the voting booth on a stetcher to vote for Hillary? Now that's inspiration!


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:18:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wasn't it amazing? (2.00 / 8)

We had two incredibly inspiring candidates in the same primary. Any other time either one of them would have walked away with it hands down. What an amazing thing that both of them happened to run this year.

But they both pulled off miracles. Record turnouts in every state and record fundraising for each of them. How many times have you heard candidates promise huge turnout among 'unlikely voters?' How many times have you seen it happen?

But they each pulled it off repeatedly in this campaign. Repeatedly. Again and again.

And in the end he won by a hair. He won fair and square, but by a slim margin. Who else but Hillary Clinton could have even come close?

Yes. She inspired me as well.


by Mystylplx on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:17:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wasn't it amazing? (1.16 / 6)

He won fair and square

Except for the fact that he DIDN'T win "fair and square." Just ask the folks in Michigan and Florida.


by Xov Wonk on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 05:42:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The folks in Michigan and Florida (none / 0)

are better represented for the RBC ruling. Besides, why ask them with self-appointed spokespersons such as yourself ranting allegedly on their behalf?


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:20:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wasn't it amazing? (1.66 / 6)

I have asked them. They say he won fair and square.


by Mystylplx on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:39:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow, talk about HR abuse, tarheel74. n/t (2.00 / 1)


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:56:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nicely said... (2.00 / 9)

As an Obama supporter from the beginning, my perspective has obviously been different, but I too have come to understand why Hillary Clinton inspired so many people as well.  And just as Obama's appeal extends beyond just African-Americans seeing one of their own get to the white house, Clinton's appeal and inspiration wasn't just for women, it was for everyone who wanted to see someone not be afraid to strongly and openly push for progressive positions (while Obama IS a progressive, he has a different style when it comes to fighting for progressive policies).  And Hillary has taken so much crap over the course of her life, so much disgusting vitriol and and slime, that for her to still be standing and polling ahead of McCain after such a long primary, is truly inspirational in itself.

I don't laugh at anyone who says that Hillary inspired them, any more than I would laugh at anybody who said that Edwards inspired them, or Dean or Clark or any other progressive politician who came close to being one of our nominees.


by Skaje on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:22:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nicely said... (2.00 / 6)

Good point Skaje I have grown to admire Senator Clinton and her leadership who like her supporters and this diarist have put aside their personal feelings in order to defeat McCain and make health care affordable for all and end this war in Iraq.


by Politicalslave on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:42:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nicely said... (2.00 / 6)

I have always admired Senator Clinton.
My wife was a supporter of hers right up to her concession speech (still is, but is now behind Obama along with Clinton).
Money from our joint-account has gone both to her campaigns in NY and to her campaign in the Primary.
My admiration for her has grown seeing the way she has handled what must be a difficult loss.
She does her supporters, and her opponents, proud....she is a Democratic Leader.
Her hope, like mine...like most here....is to see the Democrat win in November.

by Kysen on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:56:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nicely said... (2.00 / 2)

Agreed.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:58:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm gladder than hell (none / 0)

Hillary inspired people! (not me, but hey, you can't inspire everyone)


yo mir kennen
by RisingTide on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 10:50:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 5)

I was hoping to be the first to reply but as I have been told I'm a little "slow" I remember those debate answers and that is why I have hope.
I appreciate you sharing your journey and I appreciate your commitment.
by Politicalslave on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:15:07 PM EST

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 3)

Heh. Me too.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:59:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 6)

Thanks for part of your story sricki.

I agree....I think that HOPE means something different to each of us.
The first thing it meant for me, in regards to this political race, was HOPE that maybe, just maybe, we could regain our position as a nation of good in the world. That maybe, just maybe, our reputation could begin to be rebuilt in a matter of years rather than decades.
I still have that hope.


by Kysen on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:21:11 PM EST

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 9)

I know what you mean! I really do.

I've just recently read We The Audacity of Hope (yeah, I know, prolly should have done it before, but anyway...) It took some doing and some soul wrestling on my part but I've come to the conclusion that electing Obama might very well mark a turnaround in the relationship between Washington and the American people; the beginning of a new kind of citizenship so to speak.

As much as I wanted to see Hillary as President, he is incredibly inspiring and he will be, I think, a truly great President.

Oh, and great diary sricki! Rec'd.


Re-elect the President in 2012
by DemAC on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:22:27 PM EST

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (1.50 / 2)

I also read the Audacity of Hope, with the opposite conclusion. Think of it -- in his first term as a US Senator, Obama was skipping out on votes and not holding hearings on Afghanistan to do what? Write a self-serving memoir to in the HOPE of getting elected to a higher office. Not impressive.


by Xov Wonk on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:29:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 2)

Obama was elected in 2004. He took office in 2005. He wasn't to a point that he could call a committee hearing until 2007. That was after he wrote his book AND after it came out. Plenty of senators write books, and he probably had that one in the works for a long time.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:58:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (1.50 / 2)

The truth remains that he spent his first and only term in office as a US Senator writing a book.


by Xov Wonk on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:09:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 1)

Hillary did during her first term, too. I don't think it's particularly unusual.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:18:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 1)

Being a senator is like being a teacher. You have a lot of down time.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:18:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (none / 0)

hE STILL HAS 3+ MONTHS TO PROVE THAT HE IS A CANDIDATE FOR CHANGE - DIFFERENT TYPE OF POLITICIAN BUT PROGRESIVE BY FINDING COMPROMISE SOLUTION AND GETTING IT PASSED WITH VETO PROOF MAJORITY ANY ONE - JUST ONE OF FOLLOWING ISSUE SUCCESSFULLY, IF HE IS TRUE TO HIS WORDS. IT WILL NOT REQUIRE ANYTHING BUT SACRIFICE HIGH DONORS (WHICH HE SAYS HE DOES NOT SUPPORT) PARTYS AS MOST OF THE MONEY STILL WILL COME FROM SMALL INTERNET SUPPORTERS!

- ENERGY CRISIS - SHORT TERM, MID TERM AND LONG TERM SOLUTION AND PLANNING

  • GETTING DOLLAR STRONG - SHORT TERM, MID TERM AND LONG TERM SOLUTION AND PLANNING
  • PULLING THE TROOP OUT OF IRAQ
  • MEDICARE SOLUTION - SHORT TERM, MID TERM AND LONG TERM SOLUTION AND PLANNING
  • HEALTH CARE/INSURANCE SOLUTION - SHORT TERM, MID TERM AND LONG TERM SOLUTION AND PLANNING
  • SOCIAL SECURITY SOLUTION -  SHORT TERM, MID TERM AND LONG TERM SOLUTION AND PLANNING
  • FISA - KILLING THE CURRENT PELOSI SOLDOUT


by PK on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:27:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (none / 0)

I don't do this normally, but this is an exception

He still has 3+ months to prove that he is a candidate for change - a different type of politician, but still a progressive, by finding compromise solution and getting it passed with veto proof majority any one - just one of the following issues successfully... if he is true to his words. It will not require anything but sacrificing high-dollar (which he says he does not support) fundraisers as most of the money still will come from small internet supporters!

   * Energy crisis - short term, mid term and long term solution and planning
    * Getting dollar strong - short term, mid term and long term solution and planning
    * Pulling the troops out of Iraq
    * Medicare solution - short term, mid term and long term solution and planning
    * Health care/insurance solution - short term, mid term and long term solution and planning
    * Social Security solution -  short term, mid term and long term solution and planning
    * FISA- killing the current Pelosi sellout


He has an economic package right now. But it would be next to impossible to get a veto-proof majority right now. He's the Democratic nominee. Republicans will bend over backwards to make sure that nothing he supports will pass.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:39:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 3)

ok. we get it. you don't like obama. thanks for your input.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:05:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (1.50 / 2)

Oh, he's "likable enough." Many progressives just don't like his policies and where he's headed.


by Xov Wonk on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:10:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (none / 0)

ok. clarified, you don't like his politics. could you be more specific and less hatefull in the way you criticize him?


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:06:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 1)

Nope! He and his kind have a deep and abiding belief in the audacity of hate.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:43:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (none / 0)

you never know, i might just agree with you.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:07:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 4)

Being angry and bitter doesn't become you Know Vox. Perhaps you should read his book again some time... It's not really a memoir; it's a political history of modern America and a very intelligent discussion of some of our most pressing challenges as a nation. You don't have to agree with Obama's views or his take on everything, but you can't seriously say that the book isn't both thoughtful and inspiring.

I was with Hillary 100% `til the minute she conceded, but to admit that we had two, nay three, brilliant candidates detracts nothing from Hillary or our support of her candidacy. Clinton, Obama, Edwards - they are all displaying the enormous Democratic quality advantage of this election.

We should cherish, not mourn, the wealth of political talent in our party - especially when compared to the Horror Show that was the Rethug primaries. To choose between our top three candidates was a pure luxury problem, they're all great and they would all make excellent Presidents.


Re-elect the President in 2012
by DemAC on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:45:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (1.00 / 2)

you can't seriously say that the book isn't both thoughtful and inspiring.

Read my lips: It was a puff piece with little to no content and a LOT of audacity. And the name's Xov Wonk, thank you very much.


by Xov Wonk on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 06:33:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Totally not worth a zero n/t (none / 0)


While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama
by bowiegeek on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:21:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks! (2.00 / 8)

I still haven't read it. I've always meant to. Maybe I'll go pick it up next week.

And I agree, he'll make a fantastic president.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:32:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Best. Diary. Ever. (seriously) (1.92 / 13)

Oh fuck yeah.

I decided to stop commenting and engaging (until the new system is in place) because of the level of trollery on this blog. I'm not leaving ( sorry haters!) but I have no intention of reliving the primary wars. We've got Brandon, Blue Nep and xdem reppin the Obamabots and the usual primary crazies and their sockpuppets reppin Team Denial. Noxious to say the least and counterproductive discourse around here ( of course my stalker trolls would say I'm part of the problem ; )  )

But I just couldn't stay away from this diary. Wow. Just fucking wow.

I took a step back and tried to put myself in real Clinton supporters (not the asshats - I see you KnowVox - spamming this diary with nonsense) shoes. I've voted for Hillary twice for the Senate and had never seen how she inspired people like you. Being that I'm a HUGE Bill Clinton fan I never felt the same way about Hillary. I never bashed her ( I dare the spacemanspiff stalkers fan club to find 1 out of line comment with regards to her) but never understood what the big deal was.

I had the chance of meeting the Clinton family and have been vocal about the impression Chelsea and Bill caused on me. Hillary was great, don't get me wrong, but I just didn't get the same vibe from her.  I wasn't inspired.

Not anymore.

After reading this diary I see what you see in Obama now.

I've talked alot about my autographed My Life copy and how Bill took the time to not only sign it but actually asked my name so he could personalize it. This might not seem like a big deal but my name isn't exactly John or Bob. I have a very spanish name and he had the patience to let me spell it out for him while smiling the whole time.

What I've never said before is that Hillary also took the time to sign my copy of Living History. She went one step further than Bill and actually tried to make me laugh by cracking a joke about my funky shades (yeah, the hipster nerd in me cries out "cool" ). Just like that she kissed me on the cheek (in Puerto Rico we do this when we greet or say goodbye always) and was off. I was in full primary mode so to a point I saw it as just another politician trying to be nice to get my vote. Both of these gestures came back to me in a flash when I read this diary and I felt happy, confused and then lucky. I felt luck that I had met this wonderful woman and she had taken the time to try to make me smile.

I've had her book in the den  with the rest of my stuff ( I've got tons of books) while Bill's book was featured prominently in my living room area. After reading this I now have 2 books I want people to ask me about. Thank you sricki.

I rambled a bit and I'm not sure I made point clearly but this is one great diary.

Back to lurk mode for me! Mojo'd and rec'd.


Yawn.
by spacemanspiff on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:52:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Best. Diary. Ever. (seriously) (2.00 / 6)

Thank you so much for sharing this. I would be so happy to have such an experience with either Barack or Hillary. Lucky, lucky you.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:04:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Best. Diary. Ever. (seriously) (1.80 / 10)

I was very lucky. The fact that I had my vacation time at the same time she was campaigning in Puerto Rico was so fucking sweet (I live and work in NY). It was incredible how relaxed she looked. Every single person who wanted to approach her (Bill and Chelsea) could. It was in Puerto Rico when things were tight so she was really working the crowds but the party atomosphere and chilled out vibe gave her an added bounce. Very accesible and humble.

P.S. I don't want to come off as sexist or a pig, but Chelsea is not very photogenic. I'm not saying that she doesn't look pretty in picutres. It's just that she is so freakin hot in person. I'm serious. Pictures don't do her justice. I hope others who've noticed this trend comment as well. Crazy beautiful and charming as hell.


Yawn.
by spacemanspiff on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:31:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Best. Diary. Ever. (seriously) (2.00 / 1)

I am even more envious now. I actually think she is very pretty and am not supprised that she is so beautiful in person. I think she looks like her Mom a great deal.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:33:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And here we have some TR abuse (2.00 / 2)

from prominent PUMA member campskunk. Really no excuse.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:08:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow, that's a huge compliment! (2.00 / 6)

Thank you! Hillary has been very inspiring to me. She's certainly been the most important political figure of my life. I'd love to meet her, but I don't have the money to travel much. Ah, well. If she and Obama come to FL, I may have to find a way to make the trip.

As for the trolls... I was just telling Kysen that I might have to leave for awhile. It's become toxic here. I miss your comments, though! Have fun lurking! ;)


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:05:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow, that's a huge compliment! (1.85 / 7)

This site has become overrun with PUMA people and abrasive Obama supporters who don't know a troll from their asses.

I'm about done up with all of them. Not to mention, several of my favorite people (aside from you and a handful of others) are absent lately. The environment around here has become toxic.

Wow. I wrote exactly the same thing in my parting post. I have a far inferior command of language than you but it's practically verbatim.

Canada is being called a troll by the "bots" and stalked. You were being called a troll by both the "bots" and the "PUMA's". Sockpuppets everywhere. PUMA's diaries making the rec. list and staying there. Every decent diary is a freakin flame war and it's gotten sooooooo old. Even this diary has been hijacked by KnowVox upthread and his busted talking points. If you do leave I'll be looking for you in CFO.


Yawn.
by spacemanspiff on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:56:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

don't you dare! (2.00 / 5)

why do all mydder's leave me?


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:15:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: don't you dare! (2.00 / 6)

I know!
I have yet to figure how to reply to that comment without sounding like I'm whining.  ;)

I really am hoping that the Update Jerome spoke of is near. It is obvious that the ratings and rec systems are pretty much useless.....and it is also obvious that, for whatever reason, Trolls of all flavors are being given more leeway than in months past (I am hoping that, with the Update, they go for an 'all in one fell swoop' approach).

I will be quite saddened if sricki slips into lurker mode....she is a great voice for both Hillary and Obama (and Democrats in general).

/me waves to all current lurkers

;)


by Kysen on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:28:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I know, I know. ;) (2.00 / 3)

But it's been pretty miserable here the last few days. If it weren't for you and Kysen, I wouldn't have even come around at all.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:55:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

NOOOOOOO!!!! (2.00 / 4)

please don't.  i don't know why i have become so attached to this place.  i just think it has such great potential in a great new democratic eral...

i just can't stand the thought of all the sane people leaving.

you are the glue that holds this crazy place together.  please.

(not that i think holding this site together should be wholly your responsiblity.  especially with the disinterest shown by the front pagers and site owner of late. but in a way i feel like that makes this site ours to remake.  and yours is a team i want to be on...)


by elie on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:59:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks, elie, you've always been (2.00 / 4)

one of my faves. I don't know, the last few days have been really unpleasant. All the PUMA people, several abusive Obama supporters. I'm feeling really out of place and irritable here. If I leave, it will be a temporary sabbatical. I probably won't go just yet, but I want Jerome to clean the trolls the hell out. Very soon -- as in, within a week. If he doesn't, there's no way I'll remain in the midst of this garbage. It's a damn troll-fest.

But thank you for not wanting me to leave... makes me feel better. ;)


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:06:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, elie, you've always been (2.00 / 3)

Please stay. You are one of the reasons I come here. Perhaps I am being a Pollyanna, but for some reason I think the level of hate will be dwindling. I am seeing so many people taking more time to be courteous and reasonable. When reason prevails, ignorance has no choice but to slip away, unnoticed; despite it's screams of protest. A hopeful thought in a hopeful time.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:03:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you so much, I'm glad people don't want (2.00 / 4)

me to leave. You've always been one of the best people here, too. I think the atomosphere will get better, but the question is when. I'm going to the beach Monday, so hopefully things will have improved by the time I return.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:55:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you so much, I'm glad people don't want (2.00 / 3)

I want you to leave! You always hog the recommendations. Ha Ha  Hang in there.


by Politicalslave on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:17:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank you so much, I'm glad people don't want (2.00 / 1)

Heheheheheh


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:57:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Keep working, but take care of yourself. (2.00 / 2)

Thanks for your kind words. Have fun at the beach, maybe catch a Disney film, and come back to us! :-D


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:57:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I can appreciate your .... (2.00 / 7)

diary and I thank you for it.

I'm still not an Obama cheerleader, but I am a supporter.  I'm still not convinced that he's 'all that', but he has my vote.  I will forever feel that the best candidate didn't get the nomination this year, but that doesn't mean that we didn't get a good candidate.

I thnk he's definietely not a Washington insider, and he brings a fresh perspective to the game, but he's a politician, make no mistake about it.  I've long ago learned that the act of being 'inspired' doesn't come about by outside forces, it's within, and no politician can really 'inspire' a person until they are ready to actually become 'inspired' within themselves.  It's like no one can make you mad unless you allow them to.  Same here, and to me, he's politics, couched in vague prose and uplifting unspecified allusions of changes to make a better way.  So, I support Obama, will vote for him, but I've not become enamored of him and therefore am not unable to view an Obama POTUS with some scepticism that it will be all I want it to be.


Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?
by emsprater on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:30:34 PM EST

Re: I can appreciate your .... (2.00 / 5)

I think that the Obama first term could be comparable to Bill Clinton's first term (we're going to win some and we're going to lose some), but Obama will have a lot more support from Congress than Clinton ever did, which hopefully will make his difficult tasks (end the Iraq war, prop up Afghanistan, try to fix the failing economy,and try to get UHC passed) easier.
That's why for every $ I send to Obama, I try to send the same amount to a down ticket candidate (right now that's Rick Noriega and Jim Slattery).
Covering my bet, so to speak.
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:01:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can appreciate your .... (2.00 / 3)

I do not think you need to be enamored with him. I will take your vote and any honest constructive critisism you have of him, deal?


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:07:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can appreciate your .... (2.00 / 1)

or rather accept your vote for him. Not really proofing anymore..


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:08:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can appreciate your .... (none / 0)

I guess it's a deal, thanks for the ratings :-D. I don't use those enough.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:06:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wonderful diary :) (2.00 / 7)

Rec'd.

Man, you're doing quite the job hiding your concern troll-ness!


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:40:52 PM EST

O, teh concernz! ;) n/t (2.00 / 6)


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:44:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hah! (2.00 / 4)


by semiquaver on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:45:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wonderful diary :) (2.00 / 4)

heheheheheh


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:08:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's part of her cover! n/t (2.00 / 5)


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:12:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 1)

If you thought his answer on his weakness in the debate was honest , some of his recent moves would have to trouble you.

Won't it ?


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:43:08 PM EST

Well, the FISA thing upset me a LOT at first. (2.00 / 3)

Figgy's diary helped me understand the reasoning behind some of the things he's doing right now.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:45:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well, the FISA thing upset me a LOT at first. (2.00 / 1)

Fair enough .

I went over to the link and read the diary , there is really not much in there that explains some of his recent moves .

I am curious to know what in that diary that eased your concern.

Because it seems contradictory to me that you felt really moved by the answer to that question in terms of its honesty which i agree with you on and his recent moves doesn't seem to have caused much of a reevaluation.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:53:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She reminded me (2.00 / 3)

that if Obama voted against the FISA bill, the GOP would use it very effectively in the fall. I was so angry at first that I didn't even stop to think why he'd agreed to vote for it.

What struck me about his performance in the debate wasn't just his honesty -- it was that he didn't realize he was supposed to give a beauty pagent answer. Obviously, he's a politician, so he's going to do some maneuvering, but I just loved his response.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:01:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She reminded me (none / 0)

So in essence what you are saying he is doing is , he is not doing what he believes in due to political calculations.

That answer really doesn't reflect well on Obama if thats the case.

You know its surprising we were both arguing for the same candidate , we are poles apart on many things.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:11:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary and Bill (2.00 / 2)

did a tremendous amount of political maneuvering.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:14:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary and Bill (2.00 / 1)

Sure , however you seem to want to put him on a higher pedestal in your diary and by and large the evidence is to the contrary.

Thats just my opinion anyway.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:18:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not trying to put him on a pedestal. (2.00 / 2)

He himself is inspiring because of what he represents to me and to this country. Maneuvering will happen, no matter what you do. That's not what makes his campaign unique, which is part of the point I was trying to make when I said all politicians have to get down in the mud. He's not more inspiring than Hillary IMO, but his candidacy is important as a symbol.

As for us supporting the same candidate, I supported her because she had the better healthcare plan, I thought she would win the GE, and because I loved her spirit.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:37:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary and Bill (2.00 / 2)

I don't think sricki is doing that, but many of his supporters have certainly done that.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:52:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: She reminded me (2.00 / 1)

There is a dichotemy to Obama. I do think that he is an amazing politician and that impresses me. I am also very impressed with Hillary's political abilities. And don't get me started on Bill, he is truly amazing.

But I also think that each of these individuals is a very good person. We can do things that seem bad; manipulating others, getting other to agree with us, comprimising and so forth; without being bad. I do it all of the time. I work with manditory clients and am able to get them to do things that they may (probably would) not want to do, and I am able to do that without them ever realizing that it was my idea.

Community organizers do this all of the time. This is what I think Barack does very well. It's funny because I am a doo gooder, but when I went to VISTA training in 1996, they told us to read The Art of War, Rules for Radicals, and The Godfather. We are not bunnies but rather eagles and foxes and wolves.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:22:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think he's moved that much (2.00 / 3)

Here's another diary (With quotes!) showing that his positions haven't changed (except on FISA).

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/7/5/1318/ 83506


"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:07:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't think he's moved that much (none / 0)

It would be hard to prove to me he hasn't changed positions on a lot of issues .

Mind you his positions are a lot closer to mine now , so i don't disagree.

But its a stretch to say he hasn't moved , its a case of who am i to believe you or my lying eyes.

From Public financing , flag pins , talking to dictators one on one , Fisa , the washington hand gun decision ,  town hall debates to name a few .


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:16:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 8)

I think the meaning of hope is definitely in the eye of the beholder. It symoblizes so many things.

Within the past 7 years, I think americans have become more disheartened by this administration; they have less faith in our leaders and the system. I think HOPE resonates so much throughout this nation because people really want to trust each other and trust the people we elect to carry out whats best.

Hope to me, is believing that one person can make a difference.


[great diary- im starting to think you are a robot; you stay up super late; you wake up super early; you crank out lots of great diaries. yep. definitely a robot.its the only explanation]


by alyssa chaos on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:47:04 PM EST

Thanks, that's an excellent (2.00 / 7)

perspective on hope! One person can definitely make a difference. And yeah, I'm an insomniac and a student who's on a break from school.

(But I'm ALSO a robot!)


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:51:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, that's an excellent (2.00 / 6)

Ohhhhhh....a Fembot!!
Righteous!

;)


by Kysen on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:58:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, that's an excellent (2.00 / 7)

oh noes!!!


"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:08:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, that's an excellent (2.00 / 2)

heh


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:28:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 5)

sricki, you continue to astound me in the most positive of ways. thanks for sharing


by venician on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:51:16 PM EST

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 5)

As a person who is deeply cynical by nature, that did me some good.  Rec'd.


by rfahey22 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:53:31 PM EST

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 3)

Oh sricki, you rock. I think this is the best diary I have read, possibly ever. Thank you for articulating this so well.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 07:56:05 PM EST

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (1.66 / 3)

The coin may be counterfeit and yet it may be passed.

I don't believe in "hope" any more than I believe in the "New Politics," which is to say, not at all.

Shrug.  If "hope" helps Obama get elected, more power to him.  

Out of curiosity, how many people commenting in this thread actually rememember the Jimmy Carter campaign of '76 from an adult perspective?


by InigoMontoya on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:02:53 PM EST

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 2)

I remember some of it even though I was a teen-ager and living in Iran at the time. I liked his message of hope very much. I am not sure that Jimmy Carter was charismatic enough to pull it off though. It's kind of funny how Reagan was able to co-opt this sentiment for his administration. Talk about pulling the wool over peoples eyes. And they still are today. Look at the real good Jimmy Carter has done and please tell me any real good that Reagan did.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:32:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 1)

Carter is quite possibly the best ex-president we've ever had.   And among the smartest presidents and most humane.   He was also indecisive, due (I think) in part to seeing the negatives of every option that it almost seemed to paralyze him at times.   He didn't have a clue about Washington and never got a grip on it...he, too, thought he could transform it.

And LOL to the turds who TR posts that don't bow down to the Wondrous Obama and his New! Improved! Politics.  


by InigoMontoya on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 03:14:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 4)

Can I also use this diary to say that I really like his family as well?

Obama said the family was tired by Friday evening and chose the no-fanfare option of ordering in dinner and birthday cake to their rooms at the Holiday Inn Express. They had put Malia's favorite songs on an iPod, by artists such as the Jonas Brothers, Hannah Montana, and what ensued was about two hours of dancing.

"She said it was the best birthday she ever had," he said.


That is SO sweet.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:09:24 PM EST

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 1)

I shoulda said, I took that from this AP article. It also had this bit:

One thing she won't be getting is a pony, Obama said, despite the obvious enthusiasm for horses that Malia and Sasha showed in the Butte parade. Malia has severe allergies.

"We can get a hypoallergenic dog," Obama said. "I don't think you can get a hypoallergenic horse."


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:13:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Both of his daughters (2.00 / 1)

are super cute. I love the pic of Obama in that  little go-cart thingy. It's hilarious.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:16:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 2)

Thanks, sricki, another great diary!
Which was sorely needed considering some of the silly trash that has once again made it to the rec list.
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:12:03 PM EST

Great diary! (2.00 / 4)

But to me, hope is still just hype.

Change won't come from the top down.  It needs to come from the bottom up.  If he keep his grassroots movement together when he governs as president, then, perhaps change will happen.

But for now, all I see are words.  His record is too thin for me to buy any of what he says.  But I'm pragmatic.  He has my vote.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:21:43 PM EST

Re: Great diary! (2.00 / 3)

Yeah, but it really isn't about him is it? For me it is about the hope I have, and the possibilities I see in him ,and in all of us. He is just one guy doing his best. I think he is a really good guy, but that is not enough.

Sometimes I wish it was Hillary as well, because we have inherited such a frightening world from the republicans, again, and I think that she may be more equipped to handle all of the mess. But even though I find Hillary to be very inspiring, and I do think she is also a very good person, perhaps Barack is a more hopeful figure to some.

I sometimes wish that we could elect them together as co-presidents or Prime Minister and President, because I really think that they  round each other out.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:50:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is the worst diary (1.20 / 10)

I have seen from the faux Clinton supporters turned Obama supporters.

Hillary Clinton inspired me because she showed me that a strong woman can do anything. Barack Obama inspires me because he showed me that the American Dream is still possible, still viable, still within reach

I'm calling bullshit on your true support for Hillary.

The ultimate embodiment of the American Dream?  And you just came to that conclusion after Hillary suspended her campaign...how convenient for you.

No, you are just running with the pack looking for adulation so spare me your enlightenment.

Troll rate me: I don't give a rat's ass.


by Coldblue on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:37:13 PM EST

Incredible the way (2.00 / 13)

PUMAs call me a faux Hillary supporter, and the more abrasive Obama supporters call me a concern troll for voicing my anger about his stance on FISA.

If I wanted adulation, I could just go to NQ and spew racist garbage about Obama. Then I could try to incite others to violence like your hateful little friends. I'd get plenty of pats on the back from your crowd.

Why would I troll rate you?


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:44:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How is NoQuarter racist? (1.33 / 3)

Aside from the racist comments left by Obama trolls.


by catfish2 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How is NoQuarter racist? (1.87 / 8)

And the proof of this is where?
If not accepted....why does Admin not remove it?
Why allow it to sully their site?
Don't bother answering.
by Kysen on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:00:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They removed one today (none / 0)

that I pointed out.


by catfish2 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:08:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They removed one today (2.00 / 3)

Credit where credit is due.
Props.
by Kysen on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:10:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Incredible the way (1.87 / 8)

Heh. Maybe that means you are actually doing something right. Sometimes I think we can judge our effectiveness based on the reactions we are getting. Personally I might be happy to be disliked by these two ends of the spectrum.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:53:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Incredible the way (2.00 / 3)

Wow! My very first troll rating. Perhaps this illoominates my point. Heh, I feel like maybe I am getting somewhere. Maybe I will uprate you in appreciation.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:37:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Incredible the way (2.00 / 2)

You don't get to count this one. You have to consider who gave it to you. :)


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:20:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Incredible the way (none / 0)

Heh, yeah,I guess that was my point. :-D


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:06:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This must be an experiment diary (1.22 / 9)

To see to what degree the commenters see Obama as a Christ figure, to what degree is "HOPE" acutally a religious faith in a man. That the diarist included the bit about passing the baby around at a rally was telling.


by catfish2 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:50:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This must be an experiment diary (2.00 / 6)

Ummm...because it is cute?
Something tells me that Hillary has had more than a few babes passed her way as well....does that make her deity also?
Politicians kiss babies.
They all do.
I don't really understand why....but, Obama is far from the first one to do so (nor will he be the last).
The thing is...you know this.
That makes your point 'intellectually dishonest'.

For what it is worth...I have yet to meet a single supporter from ANY campaign who believes that their candidate is a 'Christ Figure'. I've only seen it used as an accusation by opponents trying to score a cheap point.
Kinda like your comment.


by Kysen on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:59:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I thought the baby thing was cool. (2.00 / 2)

It doesn't make Obama Christ-like, but it's very interesting.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:01:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This must be an experiment diary (none / 0)

I actually get very creeped out about the messiah and Christ-like thing. I really do not think Barack sees himself this way, but I get what you are saying about some of his supporters. It's the same reason I do not like any sort of organized religion. When more than one person gets on my boat, I tend to get off.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:40:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is the worst diary (1.78 / 14)

Wow, you are really dense, aren't you?

You PUMA characters can't seem to grasp that somehow, someway, some people are more concerned about the fate of our country's future than ourselves and our own selfish greed. You people really need to grow up and get behind the nominee--you shame Hillary.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:53:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You've got it backwards (1.33 / 3)

We 'PUMA characters' are concerned about the fate of our country for more than one election cycle. That's why we are not voting. You Obama folks are just following the presumptive nominee to wherever he leads you.

Oh, and spare me the grow up admonition...I've likely cast more votes for Democrats than you have.


by Coldblue on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:03:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You've got it backwards (2.00 / 4)

Your experience does not mean your judgment is better. There are people who have voted Democrats for decades and still think that civil rights legislation was a mistake.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:09:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You've got it backwards (2.00 / 5)

Ya know what?
If you are opting NOT to vote....I really don't care. At least that is a threat that does not throw Hillary under the bus (heh).
I may not like your decision...but, I can kinda understand it.
It is the ones who are promising to vote for McCain in their continuing 'support' of Hillary that disgust me (and, I'm sure, Hillary as well).

But, opting not to vote?
Voting only downticket?
Writing in Hillary?
Fine.
Whatever.
Seems a bit like holding one's breath to get one's way....but, at least it is not sullying Hillary's name.


by Kysen on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:09:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hmmm. (2.00 / 2)

that gives me an idea for a diary - mind if i use it?


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:17:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: hmmm. (2.00 / 3)

What's mine is yours.  ;)
Knock yourself out!
(I look forward to the result)
by Kysen on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:21:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You've got it backwards (1.75 / 4)

unfortunately you seem to be proving that age has nothing to do with maturity. it certainly doesn't seem to help your manners.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:45:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This is the worst diary (2.00 / 3)

So, are you one of the 'True' Hillary supporters that will be voting for McCain?

Next time, before making a right fool of yourself, go through the history of the target of your angry insults.

Anyone who has been here for a few months knows that sricki was/is a strong Hillary supporter.

Unfortunately, Hillary lost the Primary.

sricki, like Hillary (and like the majority of those that support her) is supporting the Democratic Nominee. I'm sorry you have such a problem with that.

As far as packs go...which one are you running with?
The one fighting to see the Democrat elected?
Or the one fighting to see McCain elected?
It's just that easy! (As Seen On TV!)


by Kysen on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 08:53:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not voting top of the ticket (2.00 / 4)

And I have read the diarist's comments prior to today.

If you find my comment foolish, so be it.


by Coldblue on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:09:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not voting top of the ticket (2.00 / 5)

Again, I may not like your not voting.....but, I can kinda understand it.

There is still no need to bash on Hillary Supporters who are opting to vote for Obama....such as sricki. Maybe if she had been disrespectful of Hillary in her diary (or elsewhere)...but, NOWHERE will you find anything negative about Hillary from sricki. Your initial comment in this diary was completely unfounded and unnecessary.

Good luck on the down-ticket races in your State.


by Kysen on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:14:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not voting top of the ticket (2.00 / 4)

I absoluetly agree with you and think that you have handled these folks really well. My proverbial hat is off to you Kysen.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:47:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not voting top of the ticket (2.00 / 2)

I just keep telling myself "it's all just words on a screen".
It helps. ;)
I doubt I would be as 'calm' in person...but, I also doubt that they would be as abrasive.
Thx for the hat tip....proverbial or no.  :)
by Kysen on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:03:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not voting top of the ticket (2.00 / 1)

It also really helps when people can see how to deal with the very difficult people. There is probably no one way of doing this. I just think you have handled yourself very well here. Thank you.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:08:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You need to snap out this (1.80 / 5)

trance you're in. You are just deeply besotted.

And you accuse others of being worshipping fools!

Come on. Use your latent noodle. I know you have one.


by Bee on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:06:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Take it to email n/t (1.00 / 2)


by Coldblue on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 09:10:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I tried to reply Bee (2.00 / 2)

but my comment was hidden

Can we discuss this by email.

(note to spacemanspiff...we're friends)


by Coldblue on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:52:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not fair. (2.00 / 5)

This has not been easy for any of us.  Do you really think we enjoy going from making the case for Hillary/against Obama to making the case for Obama?

We're caught between a rock and a hard place.  If we're critical of Obama, we're called concern trolls or we're told to get over the primaries.  If we praise him too much, we're called cultists and we're accused of abandoning Hillary.  All the meanwhile, many of us have doubts about Obama and lingering anger about the primaries.

Sometimes, it feels like nothing we do is ever enough.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:17:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Try conviction (1.33 / 3)

It means something.


by Coldblue on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:25:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I've lost my patience. (1.50 / 4)

You are NOT a true Clintonista.

FUCK YOU.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:07:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I've lost my patience. (2.00 / 3)

Oh dear.  I should not have written that, Coldblue.  I apologize.

Damn it!  We used to be on the same side.  Seriously.  What the hell is going on that friends can't disagree!?


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:28:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No offense taken (none / 0)

I know I've been the biggest asshole.

My apologies to you.


by Coldblue on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 08:22:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Try Reality. (1.75 / 4)

It's nice here.

(and, for what it is worth, I think that pschodrew's reply to you, though harsh, is not unwarranted)


by Kysen on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:37:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

this is the second time... (2.00 / 4)

i have gone after someone personally here....  but your comment warrants it...

you're batshit crazy.  

your handle is recognizable to me so i know that you have been around mydd.  therefore you must know that sricki was one of the best advocates for HRC on this site.  the fact that you would question this is plain stupid, inaccurate and ill-advised (since you can easily look up her history).

you may not agree with the diary which is certainly understandable - but your comment is really out of line.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:22:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Aw, diary too rah-rah for ya, CG? (2.00 / 3)

Figured it might be. ;)


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:02:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

a bit. (2.00 / 3)

but i just put one up that is pretty stark reality based and not warm to read like yours.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:12:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe not warm to read, (2.00 / 3)

but absolutely necessary and well laid out. I have no patience for Hillary supporters turned McCain converts.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:19:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 12)

Great diary, as usual. Rec'd.

I get so sick of people disparaging hope. Hope is a very powerful thing that can help many people endure a seemingly unendurable situation.

I spent a full year living on little more than hope, and lots of hospital food, while my fiancee fought for her life. We lost in the end, but I will never forget how hope sustained us for months on end. That hope died with her and ever since, life has seemed dull and flat and meaningless. Anyone who has gone through something like this knows the true measure of hope.

Sometimes hope is the only thing that keeps you going. Hope that tomorrow will be a better day. Hope that someone, somewhere will find a way to fix things. Hope that you will be able to sleep at night instead of lying awake with your face in a pool of tears. Hope is the grandest four letter word in the English language.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:27:37 PM EST

I'm sorry about your fiancee. (2.00 / 4)

And that has to be one of the most inspiring comments I've ever read on this site. Hope is underrated.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 10:59:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hope (2.00 / 7)

Powerful words, and so few.  You have my deepest sympathy.

Donna and I have been together for 25 years as of November 11th.  Interesting timing, in the minor context of this political election thing.  She collapsed in the shower 24 years ago, crash cart waiting for us at emergency, two weeks in ICU.  Turns out she has severe ulcerative colitis and had been bleeding internally for a long time, docs said she was lucky to not have heart failure (she was 21). Also told us that if she was not very careful she would not grow old.  Hope has been our keyword ever since.

Seven years ago, I left a rental car parked in front of an airport terminal and got rushed onto a plane.  She failed to pass her annual test for ovarian cancer (her mother died young from it, her sister had it - odds are extremely high...).  To this day there is no way to prove that she does not, all we know is that she is still here.

In many smaller ways - medical, financial... you know: life - we have often been left with nothing but hope.  Hope that things will work out has literally been all that has stood between us and the spiraling pit of despair.  For several reasons it is so for us today.  But for all the turbulence in our lives it has been a wonderful time, and we are grateful for it all.  Our #1 beef with the world is the vigor with which so many people seek out the negative.  Maybe their lives don't have enough real risk to show them why it is worth being optimistic.  Worth having hope no matter how dire the situation, even if your fears are realized in the end.

When our best friends' daughter got engaged I found myself trying to say something original to the happy couple - something they could use to keep life in perspective.  

"If you are lucky one of you will get to hold the other one's hands while they die.  Everything in between now and then is relative to that, so don't let life get you down."

There is never a guarantee that your hope is well founded, but the alternative is to throw away the time until you find out it is not.  Loss of hope is the true tragedy, it negates all that comes before what we will all go through sooner or later.

I am sorry that your time in between was so short.  From your attitude I would bet that it was good time.  Treasure it, and keep your hope that you will know more.

-best

-chris


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Sat Jul 05, 2008 at 11:55:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sad (2.00 / 1)

It's sad to see that the only way to justify your support for Obama is neither on positions nor on policies but back to plain old rhetoric. I know you said that you wanted to write sometime positive for Obama, but can't you think of something more concrete?

My question is simple, if Obama chooses  to embrace conservative values in this progressive age, what guarantee do we have that he will come back to us when he wins? Would we be sacrificing our future in politics if Obama gets elected with a conservative mandate? What precedence would that set for our party? We have sacrifice universal healthcare, death penalty, gun control, separation of church and state, 4th ammendment, and late term abortion so that we could get Obama elected? Is this worth it? Is this the candidate that we want to win? Is this the change that we are trying to archive and can we look into the eyes of the next generation of voters and tell them that we are trading 20 years of no female presidential candidate, so that we could elect a progressive nominee with conservative values? Where is the line that we are willing to draw to distinguished a democrat from a republican?

It all boils down to this, It's only the start of July and Obama has already reversed half of what he promised to change. If Obama indeed choose to run on a conservative mandate, should we support him just so because he is the democratic nominee? Or should we actually attempt to use our netroots and pressure Obama to run on a progressive platform and sell progressive values to America. Obama is drifting away from the people's platform and shouldn't we try to exact our importance? Obama is trading change and hope for conservative values. I do not respect a candidate which does that. His positions are even more to the right that what Hillary would have done.

Personally i want a progressive candidate to win. Centrism was the progressivism of the 90s. Now we need the progress needed for the 21st century. And for this reason i value Hillary Clinton as her mandate was a progressive one if any of you actually read her plans and positions. Bill Clinton brought a lot of progress in the 90s despite having to face the Republicans who had the public's will and the democrats whom could not let go of their corrupt ways as they had been in power for too long. Obama is not swinging to the center but instead to the right and i'm not comfortable with our candidate doing that. Even Kerry has the guts not to stray that far. I just hope that we would once again unite and tell Obama, run on a progressive mandate or we'll withold our fundings and such. If we do not set our priorities right, we would just be another Hollywood entity. We will just become a blank check for Obama.

P.S. We cannot just trust Obama. There is no such thing as trust in politics especially for politicians with ambitions.

And i have one last question, through it's a little racially sensitive. What does progressive means to you? I know many who thinks the by putting a black person in higher power, that is very progressive. If you don't think that is true, youtube Kerry's reasoning of supporting Obama. And just for the record, i'm a minority as well.


by stevent on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:39:23 AM EST

I've said many times (2.00 / 2)

that policy is my primary reason for voting Democratic in the fall. Obama's policies are closest to Hillary's. I didn't feel the need to repeat my position in this diary because most people on this site are familiar enough with me to know it.

I have read all of Hillary's plans/platforms. I certainly agree that her healthcare plan was better and more progressive, but they're both centrists. If you think she's a progressive, you're deluding yourself.

No, I don't think putting an African American in the White House is a "progressive" value. If Kerry thinks he's a progressive, more power to him. I disagree with Kerry's reasoning, and I'm not particularly fond of him. I voted for him and worked for him, but it was never enjoyable.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:48:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sad (none / 0)

Why are you contrasting Obama with Clinton?  That battle has been over for a month.  You've got two candidates left:  Obama or McCain.  It's pretty clear which candidate will be more likely to meet the progressive goals.


by bottl4 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 11:58:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

sricki, you're trying too hard. (1.20 / 5)

bring it down a notch and it won't seem as desperate and insincere.


by LatinoVoter on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:46:04 AM EST

LatinoVoter, you're trolling too hard. (2.00 / 4)

Bring it down a notch, and people will be less likely to tell you and your PUMA friends to get off this site.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:49:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

PWNED. (1.50 / 4)


Yawn.
by spacemanspiff on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:35:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

They must be making (none / 0)

the kool aid a lot stronger these days. Well, that's my guess anyway since reasonable people have turned to writing nonsensical gushing diaries kinda like, well, you.


by LatinoVoter on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:22:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I like grape, how 'bout you? n/t (none / 0)


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:24:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I like grape, how 'bout you? n/t (none / 0)

I always like grape soda when I was a kid. Tom Moore or grape crush.


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 01:22:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 1)

You said it yourself:

"I heard Obama supporters talking about a new kind of politics - a kind which incorporated hope and change. For some reason, I decided this was a silly notion; I scoffed at Barack Obama's message: It was too idealistic, too vague. What did "Vote Hope" really mean? How had Obama rallied such a massive base of support around the nebulous concept of "hope"? Maybe that's part of what used to frustrate me - I simply didn't understand. Did his supporters believe his campaign would always stay positive? Every politician has to fight back against the opposition. They all get down in the mud, so didn't that make Obama just another typical politician?"

-- That's why I'm not supporting Obama myself.


by bsavage on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:18:29 AM EST

As a Clinton supporter, I think I had it right... (2.00 / 2)

You have beautifully outlined why you like Obama as a person, and why you approve of the campaign he's run. You also have demonstrated a faith that he will stand for the things you care about. I applaud you for it. But I have to be honest (and I don't mean any disrespect): a new politics is something I've yet to see.

I never scoffed at the idea of "voting hope" or expounding upon the benefits of his vision of a new kind of political paradigm. But that's still talk about the idea of something, not so much the meat of the matter. Maybe I was a little bit different from the Clinton primary voters in that (while yes, I too admired her strength and tenacity from throughout the 90s and beyond) I have every bit of faith in her political prowess toward achieving things...

Anyway, I've been a little bit busy lately to pay attention to all of the recent realignments-- but I'd only say that if there's a modicum of similarity between me and other skeptical (not atrabilious) Clinton voters, then Obama will need to use some spare time over the many months he has ahead of him to explain intelligently and in a matter-of-fact way how an administration of his could be demonstrably different from a McCain administration, considering the fiscal and political realities we all know either candidate will face on 01/20/09.


While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama
by bowiegeek on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:14:49 AM EST

I agree that he needs to spend (2.00 / 2)

a good bit of time talking about policy and saying exactly what he'll be able to accomplish. I love the fact that Hillary is such a policy wonk. She made me feel very confident in her abilities. I also thought her plans/platforms were stronger than Obama's (especially healthcare). But his policies are far closer to hers than McCain's are, and that's good enough for me. I've just recently learned how to actually like Obama. I still disagree with some of his decisions, but I disagreed with Hillary, too. The hope stuff is just an add on; the policy is what matters.

I don't think he ran a perfectly clean campaign -- as I said, he's a savvy politician. He sent out attack flyers and spent a lot of time criticizing his opponent, just like Hillary did. But perfecting Howard Dean's 50-State Strategy is part of what I consider new politics. I think he'll be a good president (and infinitely better than McCain), so I'll put my doubts aside. We can't afford four years of McShrub.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 09:48:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You didn't have it wrong for supporting Clinton (2.00 / 2)

and Harriet Christian is NOT a racist for supporting McCain. Experience really really matters to some people. I think it matters even more to working class people.

This diary lists two reasons for you "coming to Obama": 1) he loses paper, and 2) there was a baby at his rally.

Some voters just can't relate to that.


by catfish2 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:59:44 AM EST

No, no, I didn't mean supporting Hillary (2.00 / 5)

was wrong. I could never regret supporting her -- she was the better candidate. Were she still in the race, I wouldn't be backing Obama like I am.

I thought the baby thing was cute, and I liked his honest answer. That's not why I want to make sure he ends up in the WH. I support him because his policies most closely resemble Hillary's. Also, I'm not a fan of back-alley abortions, so I don't want McCain to win.

I will never approve of Harriet Christian's behavior.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:19:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Her behavior? (2.00 / 2)

You sure think you know everything.

What do you know about this woman, waiting tables in Manhattan for who knows how long? So you're writing her off as an uninformed racist hick?


by catfish2 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:27:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not just that. (2.00 / 2)

Her belligerent rant was repulsive in general. She needs a psychiatrist ASAP. Also, she's a McCain convert. Very... unpleasant.

And I don't care what she is -- a waitress or a CEO.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:29:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Judge her by her words (2.00 / 1)

her rant was racist.  Standard upper east-side entitlement.  she's a joke.


by JJE on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:51:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are a snob (1.00 / 2)

to say that.


by catfish2 on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 10:36:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

you sure you don't mean (2.00 / 1)

uppity?


by JJE on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 11:12:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How can you tell what his policies are? (2.00 / 2)

He changed them all in the last two weeks.


by catfish2 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:32:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I can read. (2.00 / 1)

Go to his website. He certainly hasn't changed all of them. FISA, I disapproved of greatly, as I think you know, but it doesn't outweigh the need to keep McCain out of the WH.

I know you're a PUMA, but for some reason, I've always respected you more than most. So I have to ask, do you really think McCain would be better? You know the gridlock it would cause? Nothing with an earmark (and they're not all bad) would ever get through. With Obama in the White House, Hillary has a far better chance of getting her legislation passed. McCain will damn her efforts.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:45:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Very well done. (2.00 / 5)

I haven't always seen eye to eye with your diaries and comments but I have always admired your ability to communicate in a clear, consistent manner. This is a beautifully written diary.
Recced!
TANSTAAFL
by Terminus on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 12:35:23 PM EST

Because he loses paper and there was a baby (1.33 / 3)

at his rally? That's why sricki "came to Obama"?


by catfish2 on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 01:30:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (none / 0)

What I saw last week was a New Way to campaign..

Look where Obama went last week ending in MT
Here in Colorado..Colorado freakin Springs!
He went into the Dens where a Dem, let alone a bi-racial Candidate for President, in the past feared to tread. I call it his "Chill Out America Tour".

as for PUMA's? Here is an educational video with Bug's showin' us what to do...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF2erYQWI Os


"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 02:54:51 PM EST

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 2)

This reminds me of a post I saw somewhere (sorry can't remember where- but I think it was at once upon a time ). The Obama campaign "instructs" its followers to talk about their personal experiences and how they came to Obama and says never ever discuss policy. Is that the script you are following Stricki?

Or maybe it is like Diet coke. If you sign up at the web site you are forever addicted.

Me -after reading this I need to go take a shower to wash off the kool aid in case I get stuck too.  


by Bornagaindem on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 07:39:46 PM EST

kool aid (none / 0)

wow, i've never heard that before.  so original and inventive.  who's following the script?


by JJE on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 10:47:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're right. It is very much (2.00 / 1)

like that article from the primary from the SacBee(?) where we first got wind of the cultish tone of the campaign and people who are easily susceptible to this kind of thing.


by LatinoVoter on Sun Jul 06, 2008 at 11:26:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When I Think Of New Politics... (2.00 / 1)

Welcome aboard.  You 'get' Obama.


by Shaun Appleby on Mon Jul 07, 2008 at 08:11:49 AM EST


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