Rass Shows Obama Up In MT

It may seem far-fetched now, but a few years ago so did Schweitzer and Tester. Rassmussen (July 1, 500 LV, MoE +/-4.6%):

Barack Obama is leading John McCain by five percentage points in Montana. The latest Rasmussen Reports telephone survey in the state shows Obama attracting 48% of the vote while McCain earns 43%.
...
Against McCain, Obama leads among voters under 50, including a twenty-seven point lead among voters under 30. McCain leads among those over 50. Obama is supported by 89% of Montana Democrats while McCain gets the vote from 85% of Republicans.

The poll also found:

Fifty percent (50%) of Montana voters say it's more important to get the troops home from Iraq than it is to win the War. Forty-four percent (44%) hold the opposite view and say victory is more important.

It's a really terrible question, but revealing at the same time. The phrase "win the war" is basically spin, since it's clear that there is no military victory possible in Iraq. So even when flowery propaganda is used as the alternative to bringing troops home, it still loses.

Imagine if the question was phrased more accurately, like "get the troops home from Iraq" versus "stay forever until John McCain finds a pony."

Update [2008-7-3 11:26:39 by Jonathan Singer]: Just to follow up, Matthew Yglesias is 100 percent correct on what these numbers mean:

What's interesting to contemplate here is the role of effort. Democratic Senate candidates in Montana campaign in Montana. Democratic gubernatorial candidates in Montana campaign in Montana. I don't believe that Democratic presidential candidates typically do campaign in Montana. But Barack Obama has been putting some resources into the state. And there's long been a real question in my mind as to how much of the gap at the presidential level can be made up merely by showing up. Now that said there's a good reason Democrats don't normally campaign in Montana, which is that in addition to having a conservative track record it has very few electoral votes so it's hard to imagine it being the pivotal state.

This is important for a couple reasons. For one, just showing up will move numbers. This forces the Republicans to play defense where they don't want to (and in fact haven't for years). But beyond that, running up the popular vote -- even in states that you don't necessarily win -- is important on a policymaking level. As Yglesias points out, if Obama can win the presidency while keeping Montana close, he will have a much stronger case to call on the support of Max Baucus and Jon Tester, the state's two Democratic Senators; if he wins while losing Montana by 20 points (which is about where John Kerry performed in the state) he has significantly less leverage over the two. The same can be said all around the country. Anyway, interesting numbers to mull...



Display:


Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (2.00 / 2)

God I love it when the polls prove my point.

This is why we preferred Barack, folks.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:29:51 AM EST

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (2.00 / 3)

i know it's early, but there are a few things i need to say.  WFT?  holy crap!  giggity goo!  aw right.  boo-yah!  voon-de-bah!  bam!  woo-hooo!  


Being Normal is for the Mediocre.
by Doug Tuttle on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:43:31 AM EST

ditto ... I think (2.00 / 1)

but I hope this means that Sen Obama will visit MT at least once.


by FLS on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 12:42:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ditto ... I think (none / 0)

He's spending the 4th of July weekend in Butte, Montana with the Gov and the Sen.


by rapcetera on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 03:11:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (none / 0)

i mean WTF not WFT.


Being Normal is for the Mediocre.
by Doug Tuttle on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:45:13 AM EST

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (2.00 / 1)

How 'bout Obama FTW!

(for all the gamers out there:-))


by nintendofanboy on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:19:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (2.00 / 2)

I'm pretty sure I got sampled for this poll.

Obama is fortunate in that Baucus is basically running unopposed, so Republicans won't have the incentive to show up to try to defeat Max like they normally do. If enough of them stay home, Obama could win it.

Obama has been doing tons of GE advertising here already and will be here on the 4th, it's clear he is making a very significant effort to compete in this state. In the primary he visited every "city" in Montana, and in Montana that means everywhere with a population above 30,000 - Billings, Great Falls, Butte, Missoula, and Bozeman, basically.

7,000 people showed up for the Bozeman rally which is about 20% of the local population.


by Hammy on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:50:06 AM EST

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (2.00 / 2)

A lot of Republicans are also still pissed about how the party handled the primary.  They basically moved it up to try and make the state 'relevent' to the primary process like a lot of states did.  But because they didn't have the money or the time to get it organized properly, they held a closed door caucus to select the state nominee.  So basically you had a few hundred party leaders, funders, and assorted bigwigs get together in a hotel ballroom and pick a nominee, leaving the voters totally out of the process.  

And as if that wasn't bad enough, these oh so wise party leaders selected Mitt Romney as their nominee, who then promptly dropped out of the race the next day.


by Whash on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 12:05:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (2.00 / 1)

The icing on the cake is that when the actual primary was held for senate and local candidates they ended up nominating Kelleher who is more of a Democrat than a Republican. Now the national GOP has abandoned the Senate race and that leaves Baucus with over $10 million in the bank to help Obama and other Democrats get elected in the state. It's a beautiful thing.


by Hammy on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:33:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (2.00 / 3)

Once again, 2-1 lead among voters under 30.  Remarkable.  Most amazing recent statistic I've seen so far, btw?  In Mississippi Obama seems to be winning this demo by 3-1.  Wrote a longer post on this yesterday, but could summarize the conclusion in one sentence: if the era of the young Republican is over the GOP is in big trouble.


by IncognitoErgoSum on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 11:56:57 AM EST

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (2.00 / 1)

Absolutely.

What party people support when they're young is the party they tend to support their whole lives.  

Republians have lost a big generation, one which finds it absurd that people care about others' sexual preferences and which is strongly anti-war and anti-Bush.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 12:14:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (none / 0)

This is so true. It's not that there aren't young fiscal conservatives, plenty of young people still believe in small government, they're just socially more liberal. The GOP's decision to frame the war and gay rights as left/right issues may have gotten them elected in 2000 and 2004 but it will bite them in the ass when otherwise conservative voters start voting Democrat because they don't believe in war and discrimination.


by Hammy on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:38:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (2.00 / 1)

There are a lot of states -- or portions of states -- that not only get overlooked by presidential candidates, but may also feel put down by the national press or the residents of adjoining states/more urban parts of their states.

When presidential candidates show up or at least pay attention to them, it makes a huge difference.

You gotta believe it matters to folks both in North Dakota and western Minnesota that Obama is in Fargo today.  

There's on old saying that the world is run by the people who show up and it's certainly resonates in these situations.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 12:13:33 PM EST

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (none / 0)

Bush made a campaign appearance in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan in 2004.  I believe it was their first presidential visit in about 90 years.

As a data point, I decided to look up how Bush performed in the UP in 2004, as compared to his 2000 performance.  Interestingly, the visit doesn't seem to have made a bit of difference!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:33:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (2.00 / 2)

Montana is not THAT conservative.  I think there is a certain East Coast mentality that thinks Montana is indistinguishable from Idaho.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 12:30:08 PM EST

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (2.00 / 1)

Idaho is getting bluer too, albeit slowly.


by Angry White Democrat on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 12:32:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (2.00 / 2)

i've worked up a graph (a reworking of Nate Silver's graph actually) that dates back to 1948 presidential elections. You can view how Montana and other states have trended over the years. Truman, LBJ and Clinton (1st term) were the only times the Democratic candidate won Montana in the past 50some years.

http://priggish.com/images/tracker2.png

I still need to make some cosmetic changes but it's readable at the moment.


!
by alex100 on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 12:42:59 PM EST

Really good news (2.00 / 2)

I would love to see the mountain west become more competetive again.  It seems that back in the 60s and 70s there were some great liberal senators out there.   I don't expect those states to elect Ted Kennedy, but I think those western states can get Mike Mansfields and Frank Church.

I just don't understand what happened to those states.  Can you imagine how much better the country would be if we had someone like Frank Church in the Senate today?


by monkeyga on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:14:39 PM EST

This makes me smile. (2.00 / 1)

Overflowing with the Mojo spirit so I'm uprating everyone upthread. :D


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:14:58 PM EST

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (2.00 / 1)

Lets extend some props to Dean and Us.
Part of what we are seeing (including Obama) is at least a bit because of the broad based infrastructure investments made in the last couple of cycles.
by Judeling on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 01:20:57 PM EST

Re: Rass Shows Obama Up In MT (none / 0)

If Obama can win the presidency while keeping Montana close, he will have a much stronger case to call on the support of Max Baucus and Jon Tester, the state's two Democratic Senators.  Now we are starting to 'get' Obama.  Notice, incidentally, how he built a massive on-line presence without the help, or blessing, of the self-proclaimed 'gate-keepers' of Left Blogistan.  It works on both sides of the Democratic spectrum.  The keyword is 'mandate.'  And it applies to Republican legislators in districts which he might win or lose narrowly, too.  Say what you will about his policies or positions, this guy understands electoral politics in a fundamental way.  And he has plans.

Hillary is already busy mending fences in districts in NY she lost to Obama, within weeks of losing the nomination.  That's the way it is actually meant to work in representative democracy.  He has reacquainted, and energised, significant numbers of voters with their inherent rights in our own Constitutional process.


by Shaun Appleby on Thu Jul 03, 2008 at 03:38:38 PM EST


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