MyDD :: Obama's VP

Obama's VP

by Jerome Armstrong, Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:53:26 AM EST

Sebelius, Kaine, or Bayh

Those are the three names that are being settled upon as CW chatter.

bayh is clearly the most 'political' choice, a Washington Senator, but from a state that Obama could win.

Sebelius and Kaine are the ones whom backed Obama, and are more of a companion/outsider choice.

Vote for your choice, in the extended. I'd hope he goes with Kaine, who could help in VA, out of these three.

Poll

Votes: 139
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Tags: Bayh, Kaine, Sebelius (all tags)

Permalink :: 165 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: Obama's VP (2.00 / 1)

Oh, I guess there's Biden too, who can be relied upon to have his staffers talk him up...

by Jerome Armstrong on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:54:02 AM EST

Re: Obama's VP (2.00 / 2)

Can you add Biden to your poll? I'd like to vote for him.

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:00:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Biden associated with Washington (none / 0)

NYT:

When Mr. Obama appeared Sunday on "Meet the Press" on NBC he offered a description of the kind of person he was looking for, hinting that it would not be someone who was identified strongly with Washington, a choice that would appear to leave out Mrs. Clinton.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:07:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Biden associated with Washington (none / 0)

Meh. I guess we're looking at more of the same. Centrist politicians with limited experience.

I was hoping Obama would see the light, and pick someone whose economic credentials added to the argument that Obama wasn't merely a U.Chicago "let them eat free market cake" guy with no strong economic platform. Like one of those guys at the forum he just convened (which was great).

I don't understand why Obama is trying to fight this election on foreign policy, "judgment", and "hope", instead of aggressively attacking the Republicans for leading us down a path that has destroyed our pocketbooks. I guess that's not post-partisan, but I don't think the public is really itching for cooperation so much as it is yearning for results- namely, someone to fix this economic mess.

by RedSox04 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:03:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Biden (none / 0)

I want more of an attack dog. Biden left the nomination campaign fairly well regarded from his debate performances.

I still haven't forgiven him for the bankruptcy reform, though.

by magster on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:14:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

How can a Washington "insider" like Biden, who voted for the war, do anything but undermine Obama's purity message of "politics of change" and "I didn't vote for the war?"

Biden isn't change. He's pure establishment.

And he voted for the war.

How does Obama pick a guy like that when he sank Clinton attacking her for those two items?

by reggie44pride on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 03:00:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I guess Biden then... (none / 0)

'Cuz there's no option for "None of the Above". None of these options seems all that appealing. Both of the Governors mentioned look too milquetoast, while Bayh (though Hillary supporter is a plus in my book, nice act of unity) looks too centrist in the DLC sort of way.

As I said in the Tim Kaine diary yesterday, I think there are better options for VP out there. Heck, even Joe Biden with his "foot-in-mouth syndrome" would be better... So long as he can get the foot out of his mouth so everyone can actually see how wicked smart he is. :-)

Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!

by atdleft on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:22:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree! This is sooo underwhelming! n/t (none / 0)

by bobswern on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:33:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Why isn't Wes Clark on short list? (none / 0)

Lingering anti-Clinton spite, across-the-board, IMHO.

He should be on this short list!

by bobswern on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:42:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why isn't Wes Clark on short list? (none / 0)

Yup

by ocoocher on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:57:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why isn't Wes Clark on short list? (none / 0)

Uh, I'm going to go ahead and say its this:
http://www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/ main500251.shtml?id=4217703n

Clark is my first choice too, but I would understand Obama's camp being hesitant about giving the troglodytes in McCain's campaign something to jibber about.

As for your theory... I think you should be looking inward for the spitefulness.

Fire is the Sun unwinding from the tree's log.

by jsidlowski on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 08:54:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (2.00 / 1)

I don't know.

I'm torn between the Govenors. Bayh doesn't represent change, and has been in DC for too long.

Both of the governors have positives and negatives and I don't think one is objectively better.

"No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown

by auboy2006 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:57:59 AM EST

Re: Obama's VP (2.00 / 1)

both governors fit perfectly with the mantra and what BO has stated in his interviews regarding what they are looking for.

by Dog Chains on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:59:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (2.00 / 3)

Those 3 candidates wouldn't help him much.

I like Tim Kaine but he doesn't make me any more comfortable with Obama in terms of experience and being the CIC .

Sebelois will not be chosen.

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:59:01 AM EST

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

You do realize the VP doesn't have any more say then most others, more just a close confidante so if you can't reconcile in your head what he brings to the table, the VP slot should not be what sways you.

by Dog Chains on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:01:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (2.00 / 4)

Actually the VP slot is going to be crucial to my decision .

Obama doesn't have much experience and much of a record in my view to judge him on , so whoever he surrounds himself with would be important in allaying some of those concerns.

As much as I love Tim Kaine , he does nothing for me on that score .

Outside of bringing in VA , which is still going to be a tossup even with Kaine , I don't see what else he adds to the ticket .

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:06:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Please, you're one of those Hilary or bust people. he's surrounded by all the D leaderships, who can provide advice from whatever position they hold. It's another reason to "hold" your vote, and it's obvious. And please remember as your still fighting your primary wars, Obama has held elected office for twice as long as the person he ran against in said primary, so what did you judge the other person on?

by Dog Chains on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:08:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (2.00 / 1)

If he picks Hillary Clinton , doesn't mean I would vote for him.

If Hillary Clinton was the nominee , it isn't a slam dunk I would have voted for her in the general.

Jim Webb , Hillary Clinton , Ted Strickland , even Joe Lierbermann ( if he wasn't with Mccain ) would be choices i am comfortable with.

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:18:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Sorry if I sound harsh, you probably need to do some soul searching then because 3 of those 4 are unavailable to BO, and based on everything that's come out, the 4th (which I pegged you on, cute adding 2 guys who said not interested publicly by the way) is most likely not happening based on all indicators, so good luck to you on that.

by Dog Chains on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:27:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (2.00 / 1)

" Sorry if I sound harsh, you probably need to do some soul searching then because 3 of those 4 are unavailable to BO,"

- I do that every time I have to cast a vote , I don't vote based on a personality or blind party loyalty .

Those names reflect where I am on both the ideological and cultural spectrum , and also what I value in terms of issues of experience and national security ...

That said I don't have anymore spare time to waste .

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:35:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Lieberman's not a Dem. In fact, he's pretty much an anti-Dem. He supports McCain, and, worse, he's a warmonger.

Stop H8

by mikeinsf on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:45:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lieberman (none / 0)

WTF?

Stop H8

by mikeinsf on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:29:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Wait, so why not Sebelius then? 2 term Gov, top ratings from Governing Magazine and Time, erased a billion dollar deficit she inherited from the GOP - to me, she's the experience MVP of ALL candidates named on anyone's lists.

Visit Election Inspection for analysis, polls, and predictions!

by X Stryker on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:54:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Obama/Sebelius, Mondale/Ferraro redux.

Though, McCain sucks so hard, it won't matter. Obama could probably name Charlie Sheen VP and win.

by reggie44pride on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 03:03:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (2.00 / 5)

by the way , you might want to put an option of non of the above .

I suspect it would garner close to the most votes

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:00:18 AM EST

YES! (none / 0)

"None of the Above" looks VERY appealing right now!

Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!

by atdleft on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:24:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Kaine

That helps us win Virginia... if we win Virginia, the game is over!

"This was never part of our arrangement, Specter" "I am altering the deal! Pray I don't alter it any further!" "This deal keeps getting worse all the time!"

by LordMike on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:01:59 AM EST

Will it though? (none / 0)

He's not exactly the most love guy anymore.

And if we lose him, we get a Republican governor in his place (for a year, at least).

"No government has the right to tell its citizens whom to love. The only queer people are those who don't love anybody." - Rita Mae Brown

by auboy2006 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:04:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Will it though? (2.00 / 1)

That's the reason I hope the Kaine talk is a head fake. The rule in choosing a VP nominee should be "first, do no harm" which means (to me) "don't pick anyone who would be replaced by a Republican".

by beerwulf on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:18:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Tim Kaine is weak on abortion (2.00 / 1)

"I have a faith-based opposition to abortion."

It's Kaine.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:09:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Kaine is weak on abortion (2.00 / 1)

Look, there is a big difference between being opposed to abortion and wanting to make it illegal. Look how many times the Clinton stated abortion should be safe, legal and rare, with emphasis on the rare.

I personally have no opposition to abortion and think it is totally a woman's choice, but a lot of American's have reservations. They want it legal, but not legal in all cases (for example, not legal in 3rd trimester).

If he can state that he is personally opposed to it, but thinks that it is a womans choice, that will go a long way to winning the middle.

Don't forget that the GOP has basically categorized Democrats as wanting to rip fetusus out of pregnant women so they can abort them.

by gavoter on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:14:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tim Kaine is weak on being a Democrat (2.00 / 3)

Coal, Abortion, general rhetoric - he is both wrong and weak. Voters like conviction - Kaine lacks it.

He plays well as a good old boy in Virginia, where the center is two football fields to the right and riding the coattails of Mark Warner. But why would we want him to be the standard bearer of the Democratic Party Nationally?

We have a great opportunity to move the center back to the center and maybe, just maybe a step or two to the left, we need someone proud to be a Liberal on the ticket.

Chris Dodd continues to be my choice, I believe he is exactly in line with what Obama says he is looking for, while he has been a Senator and Congressman for 30 years, he has continually defied expectations within the beltway, making real change by working the system like no one else has in the same time span. If you want to change the system for real, you need to fully understand all of the functions and processes, Dodd is a person with that knowledge, and a person who has fought for publicly financed elections, transparency of government, rule of law, improving education, health care, paid medical leave, etc etc etc... Add to it an unmatched level of foreign diplomatic experience with actual success brokering peace (Ireland, Central/South America), and you have someone who fills the only real requirement there is for being Vice President: The capability of stepping in as President in the wake of the most unimaginably terrible tragedy. Leadership beyond George Bush's instruction to go shopping in the wake of 9/11.

We need to demand stronger DEMOCRATS across the board, we can't allow the beltway pundits to force another weak-knee moderate or turncoat (Lieberman) candidate upon us. 2008 is our chance to stand up and be proud, to make the argument Nationally that has not been made since...before I was born. Conservatism has taken the lead because they have been unafraid of speaking up and speaking out with confidence. Why are we afraid?

by mp on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:36:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I like Chris Dodd (none / 0)

But he is such the creature of the Senate. He exudes Senatorialness when he is up on stage. Would love to see him as a key leader in that chamber.

by activatedbybush on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:59:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I like Chris Dodd (none / 0)

"I like Chris Dodd"

So did Countrywide.

by reggie44pride on Thu Jul 31, 2008 at 03:05:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kaine promised to roll back rights as governor (none / 0)

Just say bye-bye to a lot of women voters. You'll gain a couple evangelicals and lose some centrist-minded women. There are more unmarried women voters today than married women voters.

Here is how you talk about women (get out from between their legs, to start):

It is a humbling experience to be in the presence of those who have such a capacity for forgiveness and care. It is also instructive. If wealthy nations want their assistance programs to be effective, they should look to the women who form the backbone of every society. With some education, training, basic rights and empowerment, women will transform a society -- and the world.

Women today make up a disproportionate percentage of the Rwandan population. In the aftermath of the genocide, they had to head households bereft of fathers. They had to take over farms, and take jobs previously done by men. But there were opportunities, too: Today, 41% of Rwandan businesses are owned by women.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:19:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They voted for Kerry (none / 0)

The world is a dynamic system.

Yes, I'm aware there's a possible misogynist reading of the myth. Sorry.

by Endymion on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:37:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kerry much more progressive and clear (none / 0)

on abortion rights. It requires a nuanced reading of their statements. If abortion rights do not interest you, you won't see the nuances.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:44:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're anti-choice (none / 0)

that explains a lot of our conversations. Maybe you could explain Ben Nelson's approach to sticking the law in between women's legs for people unfamiliar with his position.

Should she plead to a male judge that she's been raped, doesn't want to talk about the trauma, but really doesn't want to give birth to a child from such a horrific experience?

Or should we do this to incest victims? "Your honor, my father, who is sitting right there and accompanied me to this hearing, raped me. I do not want to give birth to his child. I am also not supposed to talk about the fact that he raped me or he will beat me to a pulp when we get home. But can the doctor please have your permission to perform a procedure he is licensed to perform?"

You have to be capable of reading nuance and also capable of empathy for the opposite sex. You have to be capable of imagining various scenarios, some casual, some serious. It's about privacy.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:04:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is how your candidate talks to them: (none / 0)

"At least I don't plaster on the makeup like a trollop, you cunt."

by JJE on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:46:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A woman and her pastor (none / 0)

Yes that was a tasteless comment to make to his wife in front of reporters. He is very sarcastic and salty, a sailor's mouth.

But instead of relegating women's roles back to the ones they played in the 1950s (the adoring wife "and my wife does a lot, and she looks good doing it, too) eye-candy blissful domestic housewife, if you highlight women CEOs, women LEADERS, you will break the abortion impasse.

If you break the mold of what roles they play in society, especially if you break that mold in places where girls and women have fewer rights, you will move the ball forward.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:14:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Uh huh (none / 0)

More attention paid to Carly Fiorina means the abortion impasse will be broken. Makes perfect sense.

by JJE on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:21:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oddly, yes. (none / 0)

It's hard for some people to understand, but the more women in positions of leadership, the more people will get used to seeing (and accepting) women in those positions of leadership and power. The less, over time, people will be offended when a women asserts herself or the power of her country.

And women will bring a PERSPECTIVE to those positions of leadership. Sure there will always be a few anti-choice women, some holdouts. But on birth control (they didn't get to where they were without practicing family planning or absitence) and family planning issues, for the most part, t

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:02:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Women in positions of power (none / 0)

is likely to lead to more women in positions of power. But it won't end the abortion impasse. Some societies that are very repressive by Western standards have had female leaders. Your theory is really just speculation.

by JJE on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:22:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It will push past it. (none / 0)

We can talk about women's rights beyond abortion. Opportunities for women.

And I believe it will eventually end the abortion impasse.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:49:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Speculative (none / 0)

You are simply speculating that high-level female leaders will have some gestalt effect that redounds to all women. I don't see any evidence for this. Certainly not enough to buy your pushing of the McCain candidacy.

I was speaking more broadly than abortion btw.

by JJE on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:05:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

john edwards with a DNA test (none / 0)

Call it "Medicare Option" not public option

by TarHeel on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:12:09 AM EST

Re: john edwards with a DNA test (2.00 / 1)

The primaries are over. Are you ever going to change your sig?

"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin

by Denny Crane on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:16:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Sebelius, please. (2.00 / 2)

By far the best record of the three (Bayh is a recovering Neocon, and Kaine is very iffy on social issues).

by Geekesque on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:14:49 AM EST

Re: Sebelius, please. (2.00 / 1)

I don't get why Bay gets so much press.

They guy gives me the heebie jeebies.

He just doesn't seem to "love" what he does, if anything I think he is the antithesis to Obama's message.

I like Kain and Sebelius, but PLEASE Wesley Clark needs to get up in there.

Obama is strong, we need an equally strong VP.

Clark is an outsider in that he does not tremble at the offer of power like most politicians with politicking DNA coursing through their veins.

Clark did not fall into a deep depression like almost every other canidate does when they lose.

My point is he wants to serve for the honor of it, not for the power, the prestige, or huge financial contracts.

While listening to his son and former campain manager on the radio, I have gotten to know the personal side of Clark, his life story etc etc.

Oh also, on the strait politics of it all Clark would annialate the whole "Im a VET, boo hoo vote for me" as he never ONCE brought up his story about when he was shot and almost died in Vietnam.
Try and find one person that knew that 1 month ago.

by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:26:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (2.00 / 4)

I say it won't be any of them - this is all smokescreen.

by NewOaklandDem on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:27:10 AM EST

hope you are right (none / 0)

and it's not a sitting senator. (except Webb)

Call it "Medicare Option" not public option

by TarHeel on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:28:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Sebelius by Default (none / 0)

I think Clark, Webb or Schweitzer are clearly better picks

(Clark cause he gets under McSame's skin)

Of those three Sebelius or Kaine (no thank you to DC people).

Obama is correct to run against Washington DC....

Although Sebelius Sucked in the State of the union response I don't think she's that much worse than Kaine, and she looks like the demographic that Obama needs - older white women

Call it "Medicare Option" not public option

by TarHeel on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:27:25 AM EST

He needs a token. (none / 0)

If Hillary had been the nominee, and she picked a token black man as veep, do you think that would have accomplished the same?

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:05:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He needs a token. (none / 0)

How offensive. Why is Sebelius considered a token? You do realize there was talk of her since the BEGINNING of the election cycle before people got into this Hillary or no one nonsense.

Get over the primaries Obama can pick whomever he wants. Tired of white people like you trying to pretend we are back on the plantation.

Get.Over.It.

by sweet potato pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:15:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He can choose to lost the election, absolutely. (none / 0)

He can pick a veep who will help him win. He can pick a veep who will not help him at all. He can pick a veep who will help him win evangelicals (though I don't see how a Catholic will help win evangelicals) but cost him progressives.

It's his choice. He won fewer votes, but more caucus delegates. It's all about Obama. He can lose it if he so chooses.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:17:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He can choose to lost the election, absolutely (none / 0)

Screw you!!!

Tired of this nonsense. He won period. IF you don't like caucuses join another party. Hillary knew about the caucuses when she decided to run.

You racist PUMA's are getting on my damn nerves. Where the hell where you guys back in 2004 bitching about caucuses?

You guys whine and whine and whine. Get over it she lost. She ran a lousy campaign and lost. Period.

I am so sick of white people like yourself bitching all day about Hillary. Don't vote for Barack. Who gives a damn at this point.

by sweet potato pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:16:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am not white, you racist (none / 0)

you assume my race because I don't swoon over the Messiah? You probably assume my gender too.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:18:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I am not white, you racist (none / 0)

I seriously doubt that you are a conscious black person.

There you go being insulting. The messiah? The man is a politician. This is just another way to denigrate an accomplished black man.

by sweet potato pie on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:46:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There are more than two races (none / 0)

do you live in a cave?

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:05:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (2.00 / 1)

I don't think people are recognizing the amount of blowback Obama will experience if it's anyone by HRC. I say this as a Clinton supporter in the primaries, but I also honestly feel it's the elephant in the room. No HRC - he's going to be a 'hold your nose' selection for quite a few. Sure, might still win the GE. But hard - imho - to see how any of the proposed alternatives (except Clark if the guy could actually become a competent politician) are better.

by chubbar on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:28:16 AM EST

The problem is... (none / 0)

...the Obama campaign has to ask for controls on Pres. Clinton because the campaign just can't flush a week or 2 worth of news cycles down the toilet for a Pres. Clinton off the cuff remark or press flare up of some sort. This would clearly be a non-starter for Sen. Clinton's camp.

All of this makes Sen. Clinton the "In case of emergency" break glass candidate.

I wonder why everyone in the blogosphere feels the need to measure his or her Sebelius.

by AZphilosopher on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:38:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The problem is... (1.00 / 2)

If its not Hillary then the story become PUMA and you can flush the GE down the drain because every protest will be main stream news.

Rush will fill out the ranks of PUMA and there will be enough life long democrats who say I was with Obama till he didn't pick Hillary that the news media will overlook the Rush people.

Politics is about knowing that something is far far more practical even if you don't like it and choosing it because of that.

Hillary is a far far more practical VP for Obama than ANYONE ELSE.

by dtaylor2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:54:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

PUMA: 99% a figment of Rush's wishful thinking (none / 0)

Please. There's no evidence of any major # of die-hard Clinton fans not supporting Obama.

And there is plenty of evidence showing a large swath of Republicans who cannot bring themselves to support McCain.

When I see people bringing up this right-wing "PUMA" fantasy, I think, "concern troll or someone duped by a concern troll".

by chiefscribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:23:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

The polling disagrees with your anecdotes.

by Whash on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:39:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Kaine is anti-choice (2.00 / 1)

it would be one of the worse political blunders I've seen as DC CW in quite a while for him to choose Kaine, but as I said yesterday progressive certainly isn't the criteria

by bruh3 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:30:02 AM EST

Kaine is anti-choice (none / 0)

it would be one of the worse political blunders I've seen as DC CW in quite a while for him to choose Kaine, but as I said yesterday progressive certainly isn't the criteria

by bruh3 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:30:05 AM EST

Re: Kaine IS NOT (2.00 / 1)

Kaine is anti-choice now with a link that conveniently points out how:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Governor/Tim_ Kaine_Abortion.htm

I am not going to argue with you over this. He's clearly not someone that choice groups are going to like, and will piss off a lot of women voters in a year in which Clinton ran. I didn't support Clinton. I supported Edwards. This is just clearly stupid DC politics over a guy who isn't even popular right now in on home state. I am not even getting on the issue of his milktoast advocacy in the national address he did or his lack of name id.

by bruh3 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:53:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's not anti-choice (none / 0)

You know spin this as you feel like spinning it. It's still going to piss of the people that given the dynamics of this year that you didn't want to piss off.

You also seem to think I am advocating for Edwards. I mentioned Edwards to get beyond the expected rebuttal by you about Clinton rather than to advocate for Edwards. The difference here is that Obama was unpressure as being anti women- Edwards was not. This choice doesn't help that meme. Again, I am not the one you are going to have to convince on this. It's the women's groups, choice groups and Clinton voters. I am discussing political reality, and you are trying to spin me. That you have to spin at all is why he's problematic.

by bruh3 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:17:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

on paper (2.00 / 0)

Sebelius is much more impressive.

check out her wikipedia page....

similar to kaine but better.

Kaine squeaked out a win once in VA ., Sebelius won twice, in a state with twice as many registered repubs as dems

Call it "Medicare Option" not public option

by TarHeel on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:19:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kaine is not where the Clintons are (none / 0)

He campaigned for governor "as governor, I will outlaw late-term abortion." Neither Clinton bragged about how he or she would roll back abortion rights. They may have responded to a question about late-term abortions or wiggled out of voting for it.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:50:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's not anti-choice (none / 0)

As far as I know, Edwards had an impeccable record on choice issues. He had a 100% rating from NARAL, voted to allow abortions on military bases, voted to allow members of the military to have abortions overseas, voted against the unborn victims of crime act, voted against banning partial birth abortion five times...and on and on.

Netroots Director for Oregon Senate Candidate Jeff Merkley

by Sarah Lane on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:51:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sibellius or maybe Kaine (none / 0)

Sibellius is "new"

Kaine is supported by Hillary's McClellan (does that make him too conservative?)

Bayh is too conservative, too much an 'insider' = UGH

by MS on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:32:06 AM EST

Re: Sibellius or maybe Kaine (none / 0)

Yeah, Baye should be at the bottom of that list.

Remember when he tried to strong arm the delgates in his state not to do what he already did.

It was just super unprofessional, and showed to me someone not serious about national politics.

I really don't dig the govenor thing these days.
They're all just mostly not political driven enough for my tastes. (Dean and Clinton OBVIOUS exceptions)

by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:48:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (2.00 / 2)

I hope he doesn't pick Sebelius. I'm a spelling Nazi and I think I'd be going crazy for the next 8 years the way people spell her last name around here.

No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.

by hornplayer on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:32:41 AM EST

Chicky Baby (none / 0)

We can always just call her Chicky Baby, or how about, TWWINH, that should be easy to remember.

by gavoter on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:39:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Kaine's approval ratings are down. I don't think he really helps in VA anyway.

by esconded on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:36:44 AM EST

Re: Obama's VP (2.00 / 2)

OMG Jerome, let's hope it's not Tim Kaine. And I say that as a Virginia voter.

Kaine was elected largely because of Mark Warner's incredible coattails. And standing next to Jerry Kilgore, he could do no wrong.

Kaine's a war hawk, he's anti-gay rights, and his views on choice are closer to George Bush's. And the only thing I remember about his response to the 2006 SOTU was how boring it was compared to Jim Webb's the following year.

Also, he has zero foreign policy experience (unless Obama is relying on Kaine's Peace Corp experience and Spanish language skills). As if the Democrats aren't already tagged as being weak in that area.

The only reason Obama would pick Tim Kaine is Kaine won't, heaven forbid, potentially overshadow him.

by KimPossible on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:41:04 AM EST

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

He opposes a gay marriage ban, dude.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:54:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Politico really thinks it's Kaine (none / 0)

They say he's very, very high on the list.

And Obama is heavily courting the faith-based vote, which could be helped if he picked Kaine.

NYT reports Obama camapign is confident no backlash will occur.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:55:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sebelius (2.00 / 2)

She's green, courageous, and the most progresssive of that group.

David Mizner explains why Sebelius is much better:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/7/29/ 93220/6384

Sebelius's Courage Vs. Kaine's Corporatism
by david mizner [Subscribe]
Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:59:38 AM PDT

According to the Washington Post, Obama's VP search is focusing on four candidates: Evan Bayh, Joe Biden, Tim Kaine, and Kathleen Sebelius. I doubt that the candidate of change will opt for neocon Evan Bayh or Joe Biden, who's been in Washington since the Nixon administration. That leaves the governors, Kaine and Sebelius, and between them there's no contest.

I won't do an extended comparison, but a look at their respective positions on perhaps the most important issues--climate change and corporate power--tells us plenty.

Kathleen Sebelius has led a bold and unprecedented battle to block the construction of coal plants. In response Big Coal launched a vicious PR campaign that claimed her opposition to coal was a boon to Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. She refuses to back down.

by TomP on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:41:20 AM EST

VP Ideology Doesn't Matter That Much (none / 0)

Unless the President is a Mental Midget like ol George. Kaine is the far better choice. Why stoke the flames of a decent number of very loyal and very unhappy Clinton supporters who associate the acts of female pols like Sebelius with treason? I could see her in the Cabinet for sure, but Obama may as well steer clear of the Sebelius landmine.

by activatedbybush on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:04:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Unless he picks Clinton (none / 0)

he's a mental midget. She said she was interested. Now he's going to pick either Kaine or Sebelius (he said Sunday he wanted somebody not from Washington. He wanted a workhorse.)

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:57:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In YOUR head, nobody will care (none / 0)

that he doesn't pick Clinton.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:16:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you have asperger's? (1.00 / 1)

Serious question. I notice you are very literal.

LBJ got a lot of votes. JFK was not a fan. But JFK did the grown-up thing and picked LBJ because it would unite the party.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:46:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You don't read your hometown paper? (none / 0)

Surprising.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:16:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you proudly not read the newspaper (none / 0)

any newspaper? Are you of that new generation that doesn't need to read news.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:43:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Until 2016... (none / 0)

Do we want a blue-dog Dem as our nominee in 2016? No thanks.

by chiefscribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:25:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I want Clinton in 2016 (none / 0)

by activatedbybush on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:09:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kaine is not very progressive and (none / 0)

very imnexperienced. Governor for 2 and half years. I guess it would make Obama the experienced one with 4 years as a Senator, but that ticket is quite inexperienced. Why do that? Are people that enthralled with Virginia.

Would you prefer a man if it is not Clinton? How unfeminist.

by TomP on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 03:15:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

I say it should be Bayh and that you just try to take Indiana and try to take 25-33% of the remaining defecting Democrats. If the campaign were to do that it could turn to GOTV efforts and move on.

It should be made clear that this is an olive branch and not any sort of ideological choice.

I wonder why everyone in the blogosphere feels the need to measure his or her Sebelius.

by AZphilosopher on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:41:59 AM EST

My vote (2.00 / 2)

is for "please God, don't let it be Bayh." Since two choices offer that, I am torn.

by Mullibok on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:44:54 AM EST

Is it possible to be (none / 0)

anymore underwhelmed by our potential VP choice?

Oh Mammy Dear, we're all mad over here livin' in America

by JDF on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:47:49 AM EST

Re: Is it possible to be (2.00 / 1)

me- they show no vision at all. No "how can we build the party." Just safe choices that are in accord to DC groupthink such as exhibited by A list bloggers these days. No one of that list will do anything to help in this race.

by bruh3 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:56:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is it possible to be (none / 0)

I hope not. Because it seems like every new 'list' is a bigger dissapointment than the last. At this rate, he next list will be something like 'Lieberman, Hagel and Kerry'.

www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com

by LandStander on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:07:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

fuck conventional wisdom. (none / 0)

convention wisdumb just means what the media wants to talk about. Its also usually wrong too. I'm also surprised Hillary Clinton isn't in that poll. She is the best choice.

by Lakrosse on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:51:27 AM EST

Re: fuck conventional wisdom. (none / 0)

I'm curious. Have you posted a single comment on anything at all that didn't involve you telling us how you believe that Hillary Clinton must be the VP? You're entitled to your opinion (which I do respect) but that seems to be your whole reason for posting.

by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:56:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: fuck conventional wisdom. (none / 0)

Reaper, this is probably not an effective way to respond. What you should do is go to each of his/her comments and post a brief reply about how Edwards is the only possible choice. I'd do it myself but I'm short on time.

Yes, I'm aware there's a possible misogynist reading of the myth. Sorry.

by Endymion on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:57:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Reaper use your brain. Clinton got half the votes (none / 0)

or more than half. A lot of people - some have been waiting since the 1980s for Hillary to run for president.

Some are supporting Obama right now on the ASSUMPTION he will pick her for veep.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:18:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If some assume it, (none / 0)

there is an assumption in their minds.

I NEVER assumed it, I didn't think he was strong enough to pick Hillary Clinton. His ego was too fragile to pick somebody more bold, more progressive, and more charismatic (his "this is the moment" shtick is getting stale) and more spontaneous, who smoked him in every uh, uh, uh debate.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:41:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If some assume it, (none / 0)

do you really have nothing better to do? you respond to every blog with the same crap over and over ...

I love Sebelius. I hope it is her because I think she is the best qualified. It would be sad if she was penalized for being a woman.

by Lolis on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:52:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

RE: Sebelius (none / 0)

No, no, no, no! It has nothing to do with her being a woman. She has no national experience or standing. D.C. is a political city. Obama would spend more time saddled with a completely inexperienced and overwhelmed VP than doing his job. We have too many problems that will require immediate attention to provide OJT to an inexperienced, unqualified VP.

Aside from this, the politics of D.C. aren't for amateurs. Sebelius is just that. Obama would just spend his time saddled with somebody who both Dems and Republicans would be gunning for, because she has no national standing or experience. You can like it or not. This is the way it is.

You can talk about "change" all you want. It's a pipe dream. Anybody who has worked in D.C. knows how work gets done: you build chits and favors; you pay your dues. You get there in the first place because you've paid dues and have connections and a base. Sebelius has none of this. She may be popular in Kansas. So what? It isn't enough for a VP. Every winning POTUS as far back as I can go has had a VP with national experience and exposure (aka, connections and experience).

by mabelle55 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:46:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

1980s????? (none / 0)

No one ever heard of the Clintons (outside of Arkansas) until 1988, and then it was because he was a national joke because of his disaster of a Key Note Speech that never ended (and didn't do a thing to help Dukakis).

I would like to know where all of these people who have been waiting 20+ years for Hillary to run really are.

Nearly every argument you use against Obama was used against Bill in 1992. He is too young, he is too inexperienced, he is too conservative, he doesn't stand by his convictions, his wife is a liability who can't keep her mouth shut, he should have waited his turn, etc, ad nausium.

You also fail to acknowledge there are a lot of people supporting Obama with the express assumption that he will never pick her.

by gavoter on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 09:09:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i still like Biden (none / 0)

We need someone that will drive McCain negatives through the roof. Only Biden can do that.

by highgrade on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:54:39 AM EST

I second "smokescreen" (2.00 / 1)

by Scan on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:01:38 PM EST

There is power in the simplicity of your point (none / 0)

Makes a lot of sense. Bayh is also an olive branch to the Clinton camp. He does well on TV, and fits the dignified, establihsment looking VP role well. He showed his strength by delivering IN for Hillary on a bad night.

All that said, I still like Kaine better for reasons I posted elsewhere.

by activatedbybush on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:07:13 PM EST

Re: There is power in the simplicity of your point (none / 0)

ABSOLUTELY NO! to Tim Kaine. He's rabidly anti-choice and pro abstinence only sex education.
Choice might be a "minor" issue for some, but it is a HUGE deal for the 60% of women who comprise Democratic voters. It would be a deal-breaker for Hillary Clinton's supporters, who are still having a hard time coming over to Obama, and to any pro-choice feminist women.

by mabelle55 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:37:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

I voted Sebelius, although I don't really like any of the options.

Edwards was my favorite, although the new gossip on him would obviously rise to a fever pitch if he were selected, true or not.

by leshrac55 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:13:33 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Obama field reporting + Edwards scandal-mongering = no press coverage for McCain.

Yes, I'm aware there's a possible misogynist reading of the myth. Sorry.

by Endymion on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:59:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

It would get as much attention as Larry Sinclair. ie, not likely to change anything.

Visit Election Inspection for analysis, polls, and predictions!

by X Stryker on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:44:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (1.00 / 0)

Kaine and Sebelius pathetic! really!! Inexperience and for the KS Gov - a poor judgement regarding her son's prison rape game....

Bayh qualified but with the questions among many DEMs about Obama's progressive credentials - is a real center-right DEM the answer?

And Biden??? Who's wacked here?! Horrible record on reform in his state - where he's essentially a god! And isn't he the antithesis of 'change' in DC? If he picks Biden, then one of his excuses for passing HRC over is right out the window.

by swissffun on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:15:30 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

for the KS Gov - a poor judgement regarding her son's prison rape game

To clarify for the confused, the reference is to a board game with a tasteless theme created by Sebelius' son, not an actual game of raping. This is sure to be as controversial as Lynne Cheney's novels. Which is to say, a one-week distraction.

Visit Election Inspection for analysis, polls, and predictions!

by X Stryker on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:43:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

thanks for the clarification ---- just never occurred to me that real-life prison rape would ever be confused with a game.

and now, i think you misunderstood my rationale for 'deal breaker'... I could give a shit how this plays out for the electorate (ala the Cheney analogy) --- it's a breaker for me because it displays her utter lack of sensibilities to this extremely important issue and to the homophobic aspects of such 'jokes'. frankly, i'd have spanked my kid for such a piece of stupid shit. and if he'd had a game about date rape --- bet she would have then too. well, this is just as bad from my perspective, although clearly more acceptable in 'the heartland'. at the least it reveals a lack of judgment to go public with her pride over this fab achievement of her son's. not very progressive.

by swissffun on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:52:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Thank goodness we only have to endure a few more days of VP speculation. Everything that can be said about the half dozen everybody has settled on has been said a hundred times.

by Glaurung on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:24:56 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Sebelius

From a biased Kansan, but consider:

Most progressive by far. By far. Bayh and Kaine are more DLC-types.
Also supports/enhances the Obama brand of bipartisanship
Supports the 50-state strategy. What better than a popular, progresive red-state governor (and who's a woman

Downside is abortion. She's a pro-choice Catholic but the politically active and radioactive Dr Tiller will be an issue at least briefly.

Not a flashy debater but radiates competency. Obama has enough flash for the entire ticket

by KansasDem on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:28:01 PM EST

Sebelius is good (none / 0)

I agree. I like Sebelius, she's a progressive in a red state, she has executive experience, and though Obama won't carry Kansas, I think her Midwestern persona would be effective in the region and elsewhere.

Also, she's someone who I can imagine my mom relating to, which is kind of a barometer with me. And Obama seems genuinely comfortable with her and he admires her. And she's an "outsider".

Her downside is that she has no foreign policy cred, but there's the argument that having someone with too much only emphasizes his lack of foreign policy experience.

As far as her SOTU response, who cares if she's a little boring? Obama has enough "rock star" for the whole ticket.

And to the nonsense that Hillary is the only woman to consider, that's just a whole other kind of sexism that shouldn't even be considered. The hardcore Hillary fans will say this, of course, but I doubt even Hillary would agree with their 'logic'.

Stop H8

by mikeinsf on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:55:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sebelius is good (none / 0)

I think you're right on all counts.

Stop H8

by mikeinsf on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:35:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Sebelius will never fly in D.C. It's a political environment, whether Obama and his supporters accept this or not. She will never accomplish anything as VP because she has no D.C. connections, she lacks any national experience/standing (same as Obama), and (how do I say this nicely?) hasn't paid any dues. This is just reality in D.C. I don't make this stuff up.

It's all well and good to wax philosophically about "change" and "turning the page", blah-blah-blah. It appeals to people who have no clue about D.C. and how things get done.

I spent 20 years in D.C. as a progressive policy wonk and lobbyist. Every person I knew/know (including me) had some connections before we got there, had connections to do our jobs, and still had to pay dues to get anything accomplished. It takes more than 4 years for that to happen.

Look back at previous VPs over history. None of the winning presidents had VPs who were outsiders (e.g., who lacked any knowledge/experience/connections to D.C.): Edwards had Senate experience; Lieberman had Senate experience; Cheney had tons of previous experience; Gore had Senate and House experience; Bush, Sr. had Senate experience; even Quayle had this experience. Mondale had experience, and on and on.

As much wishful thinking as people have for "change" in D.C., Sebelius will never fly (and if Obama chooses her, she will drag him down and will not last more than one term). Obama will spend his time (if he's elected) saddled with a VP who knows zip. And people in D.C. won't cotton to Sebelius - Dems or Republicans, because she has no national experience and no connections. The Washington political scene isn't for amateurs.

by mabelle55 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:33:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Another vote here for "Please God, don't let it be Bayh."

I prefer Kaine.

by Dan Kervick on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:41:05 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Kaine is anti-choice and pro abstinence only sex education - a huge 'diss to women.

by mabelle55 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:23:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (2.00 / 1)

How about, instead of a re-active poll, we take a poll of progressive and liberal candidates and present our short list to the campaign?

Yes, I'm aware there's a possible misogynist reading of the myth. Sorry.

by Endymion on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:02:00 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Well, first, the only thing about a VP nomination is that it is a candidate's first real "presidential" decision. The key is not to look dumb doing it and even then it might not matter (Dan Quayle anyone?).

There has never been any observable electoral college effect from a VP nominee, so, again, just don't look stupid doing it.

I would hope that the Obama campaign would get someone who fits in with the outsider and forward-looking ethos of the campaign. Someone inspiring.

None of these three really seem to hit all those buttons, but none of them would make Obama look stupid in making the choice.

Personally I think they are all less than inspiring, fairly boring, and forgettable choices.

But if I had to pick, I'd go with Sebelius.

by nathanhj on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:06:19 PM EST

Hillary got more votes (none / 0)

in three out of the four counting methods on CNN. She is more inspiring than Obama, especially over time.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:20:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The world consists of more than you (none / 0)

did you not know this?

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:38:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

history ---- LBJ delivered Texas without a doubt, and thus the presidency for JFK. Just to name one example. Presidential politics did not begin this generation.....despite the feeling around this primary season regarding a lack of historical perspective.

by swissffun on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:56:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Sure - but Landslide Lyndon* knew how to buy ballot boxes real well.

*http://askgleaves.blogspot.com/2005/01/l andslide-lyndon.html

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:25:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

but none of them would make Obama look stupid in making the choice.

Oh yes, they would! Kaine is anti-choice and pro abstinence only sex education - which makes this completely disrespectful to women (who comprise about 60 percent of the voting electorate).

by mabelle55 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:21:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kaine in hot water with progressive blogs here (none / 0)

Over his stand on coal, and other issues. The formerly RaisingKaine website started to support his election has childishly removed that moniker after he endorse Gerry Connolly over Leslie Byrne in the 11th district primary (I supported Connolly)

There are now almost daily front page Kaine bashing posts there...

Personally I think Kaine is doing a fine job, and might be a good choice for Veep.

Would put dems here in a pickle as that would hand the governorship to a Republican right when redistricting is gearing up...

by SaveElmer on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:10:33 PM EST

Then Kaine it is (none / 0)

Obama likes to prove he's not beholden to progressive blogs.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:19:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do you think you might be a Republican? (none / 0)

Why are you a Democrat?

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:39:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are you a Democrat, or just Obama supporter (none / 0)

maybe you're not that into parties. I am a Democrat, and I don't see Obama as one.

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:44:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So you care about poverty, foreign policy (none / 0)

you seem very paternalistic. Can't discern what makes you a Democrat - maybe you just wish wars would end?

by catfish2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:59:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama as Democrat (none / 0)

I hear ya. I don't think he's a Dem, either. His votes, his positions on issues are closer to Republican-lite. There's a reason he was so appealing to Independents and Republicans: because he's Republican-lite!

by mabelle55 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:17:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama as Democrat (none / 0)

Funny, I guess that makes Hillary Clinton a full on republican, because she's considered more conservative than Obama. You know, she's a member of the DLC, and Obama is not.

It's so odd that I've heard liberals who don't like Obama say he's too conservative while I've heard moderates who voted for Clinton say they don't like Obama because he's too liberal. I guess you see whatever it is you want to see.

by ProfessorReo on Fri Sep 12, 2008 at 02:02:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Kaine is also... (none / 0)

anti-choice and pro abstinence only sex education.

I wouldn't expect most men to put choice front and center as a reason to reject Kaine, but if they're smart, they will, because this would be a complete insult to pro-choice women: those who supported Hillary Clinton and are still having a hard time supporting Obama and any other progressive/liberal pro-choice women.

If Obama selects Kaine, he can write off a good chunk of women. Is he prepared to do that? Over an issue (choice, Roe v. Wade, SCOTUS appointments) that his campaign relentlessly pushed to Clinton supporters as a reason they "must" support Obama over John McCain?

by mabelle55 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:15:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No he isn't (none / 0)

He is personally opposed to Abortion but is against criminalizing it...

He opposes partial birth abortion(would insert a health exception) and for a ban on third trimester abortions...like most democrats...

But he opposes overturning roe vs wade

And not he is not for abstinence only sex education...

by SaveElmer on Wed Jul 30, 2008 at 12:58:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

My vote is that this is a smokescreen, too. (none / 0)

Obama's campaign is media-savvy enough to know how to dangle "short list" people in front of the press and then dramatically announce someone else who they'll then have to (re)introduce to the public, analyze, and discuss ad nauseam.

by chiefscribe on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:28:30 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Sebelius all the way. Been saying this for a while now. She's surprisingly progressive and popular despite Governing Kansas. The wooden delivery from her SOTU response is irrelevent - Cheney comes off as malevolent, Gore was long considered very wooden, Quayle was an idiot, and the elder Bush was never considered all that charismatic anyway. Sebelius is at least a match for Gore and Bush 41 in the speaking department.

Furthermore, geographic factors are usually pretty minor to begin with. I don't think Kaine is popular enough in Virginia to have enough of an impact. Sebelius has more of a chance at motivating voters nationwide demographically.

Visit Election Inspection for analysis, polls, and predictions!

by X Stryker on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:29:12 PM EST

Not Sebelius, Either (none / 0)

First and foremost, she doesn't have any national or D.C. experience. You might think this is irrelevant, but Obama is going to need somebody who has knowledge of how D.C. works. Sebelius as a complete outsider from a ruby red state that will never be blue will be more problematic for Obama than good. He can't be wasting time with a VP who knows zip about how things get done in D.C. And Sebelius doesn't, no matter how popular she is in Kansas.

The whole "change" thing that Obama has pushed is just really naive and unrealistic. Washington is a connection city; it's a political city where chits and favors get built up and traded; it's a city and environment where you just don't walk in as a newbie - no matter what level of government - and take over. Like it or not, this is how it is. I spent 20 years there, working as a progressive lobbyist and policy "wonk." I had connections in the first place that got me to D.C. and I still spent years building up the chits and favors and connections. And so does every other politician, lobbyist, policy person.

If Obama chooses Sebelius, she won't last beyond a first term, in part because she doesn't have the D.C. connections and experience.

by mabelle55 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:10:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Three Bad choices. (none / 0)

Kaine is even less experienced than Obama...and a bit goofy.
Bayh is boring and only there because his dad was a great senator...another legacy office holder. Besides, we'd lose a dem seat in the senate.
Sebelius is too small time...if it is a woman it should be some og Hillary's stature and with her campaigning vigor.

I'd still go for Jim Webb who can do well with working class white guys and is right on the issues, including economic issues.

or Joe Biden. Experience, heart and strength with working class Catholics.

I think if he were picking based on who he's want to serve with, it would be Biden. I see a symbiotic relationship between their personalities.

Let the change begin!!!!!

by demwords on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:29:25 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Ugh. Don't care about any of these except Biden.

"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."

by vcalzone on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:30:20 PM EST

Re: Do No Harm (none / 0)

If it makes me barf, I call that "harm".

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by X Stryker on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:45:22 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

eh. not excited about the "CW".

by alex100 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:46:23 PM EST

NONE OF THE ABOVE!!!! (none / 0)

And it should be an option, are we really goign to be saddled with this list?

by Exiled on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:14:51 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Was I just dreaming when watching MSNBC last Friday polls were discussed that said Obama with Hillary raised his percentage by 11 points nationally? And in swing states, Hillary on the ticket wins him Colorado, Ohio, Florida and Arkansas? No other VP matchup provided anything close to this.

All this talk of what Kaine brings to the ticket (winning in Virginia) seems insignificant compared to what Hillary will bring.

If we're talking about winning in November, we should be talking about Hillary as the VP.

by GLP72315 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 02:30:11 PM EST

Re: Obama's VP (none / 0)

Yeah, I think you were dreaming. I haven't seen any polls like that. If you can find a link, please post it.

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 05:26:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There was a poll... (none / 0)

I saw it. I believe CNN reported it. With Hillary as Obama's VP, it gave Obama a 6-point bounce, I believe.

by mabelle55 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 07:00:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

if it had to be (none / 0)

one of those 3, i'd pick Kaine over the others.

My #1 choice is not workable, and that's Mark Warner. My #2 choice is also not workable and that's Governor Brian Schweitzer.

So, if it really is one of those 3, then go Kaine!!

by southernman on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:14:13 PM EST

Not Tim Kaine (none / 0)

How can any progressive/liberal say (with a straight face) that he/she would like to see Tim Kaine as Obama's running mate? And just because he might help in Virginia?

Kaine is anti-choice. Forget for a second how this goes against Democratic Party principles. It would be hugely disrespectful to women - both those who supported Hillary Clinton and pro-choice women!

I sincerely hope you'll rethink this rash statement. Supporting Kaine because he "might" deliver a state loses sight of something bigger: Democratic and progressive principles. And women (who comprise about 60% of the Democratic Party) will not be pleased. It could be a deal breaker for a lot of us.

by mabelle55 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 06:58:49 PM EST

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