Many days to go

A Presidential win, 6 new seats in the Senate, 14 new seats in the House. That's where I'd put the Democratic tally of the election if it were held today, but its about 100 days away.


Today's poll:

The Friday-Sunday poll, mostly conducted as Obama was returning from his much-publicized overseas trip and released just this hour, shows McCain now ahead 49%-45% among voters that Gallup believes are most likely to go to the polls in November. In late June, he was behind among likely voters, 50%-44%.

Among registered voters, McCain still trails Obama, but by less. He is behind by 3 percentage points in the new poll (47%-44%) vs. a 6-point disadvantage (48%-42%) in late June.


Concerned?

Update [2008-7-28 16:14:8 by Jerome Armstrong]: Found someone...

Former Gov. Mario Cuomo expressed concern Friday night that Sen. Barack Obama, the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, is not offering specific policy positions. "I'm unhappy with the current presidential race, so much so that I haven't endorsed Obama or Hillary (Clinton), though I'm well-known to be a Democrat," Cuomo said. "I am not endorsing because I don't think they've been specific enough. We have these big, big issues, and the political theory is: 'I don't want to get into the specifics, because if I do I'm going to get into trouble.' "

Update [2008-7-28 16:29:27 by Jerome Armstrong]: Here's Obama's perspective, on why its a 3-4% race instead of the 9-10% generic lead that Democrats have nationally:

On his campaign plane last Friday, Obama addressed the question of why some voters may still be reluctant to embrace his candidacy.

"The point is, with change comes some risk, and I combine two things," the Washington Post quoted him as saying. Obama said one is his advocacy of new policies; the second is a biography that he said will take people time to accept. "They're going to keep their powder dry and get as much information as they can the next three months."

I think Obama's right about that, and until then, it's pretty much up in the air with polls that mean little in a close race this far out.

But until the sale is made, at least, the sarcastic take above on the single poll shows that it's very easy to rile up the concern trolling accusers-- thin skinned troupe there.



Display:


Meanwhile (2.00 / 4)

In the Gallup Daily Tracking poll, Obama is still up 48-40.

Also, nobody has bothered to disabuse me of the notion that Obama never does as well in Friday-Sunday polls because his younger audience is out, away from their homes and land lines.


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:40:00 PM EST

Re: Meanwhile (none / 0)

"because his younger audience is out"

Historically, they are not so likely to vote.  If they do this time around, he should win.  If 50+ turn out in their normal numbers, while < 29 turn out in their normal numbers, it will be very close.


by reggie44pride on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:08:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Historically, yes. (none / 0)

Historically the youth wasn't fuelling 50%+ "very enthusiastic" support numbers, either.


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:22:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Meanwhile (none / 0)

Black voters will be up.


by Bush Bites on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:29:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What is there to be "concerned" over? (2.00 / 4)

Obama widened his lead during his overseas trip.

The Gallup daily tracking trend has been consistently positive. The state map lies between a win and a landslide.

I know complacency s a real enemy here, but I do not see one iota of evidence that is cause for alarm, unless you cherry pick apart certain polls. And other than to darkly motivate the base, what would be the point?


I attended PUMACon '08!!!
by iohs2008 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:38:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

agreed (2.00 / 1)

Also, I wonder why some people very clearly relish posting the one (literally one) poll which doesn't have Obama up by a substantial margin.

Or why some people seem excited to post some concern trolling by a guy who still hasn't endorsed Obama.


by taylormattd on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:05:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: agreed (2.00 / 2)

The site wasn't getting many hits lately. Whenever Jerome posts his 'concerns' the comments section blows up.

Just saying.

He should work for cable news. His ideas and view points seem to fit well in their world.


John McCain defends Bush's Iraq strategy.
by recusancy on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:30:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 5)

Oh noes! An outlier!

"among voters that Gallup believes are most likely to go to the polls in November"

Anyone got some data on who those voters, in fact, are?


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:40:44 PM EST

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

This is a good question - what's the liely voter screen?  I would peg it at 3 out of five fo the last national elections.  What dose Gallup use?


by NewOaklandDem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:44:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Look at the overall trend: http://www.pollster.com/polls/us/08-us-p res-ge-mvo.php


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:45:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We should have gone with Clinton! Oh noes!!! (none / 0)

If you look closely, you may see a one pixel downturn at the end from an outlier (you may need a magnifying glass, and a drink to view. Not viewable on all monitors).


I attended PUMACon '08!!!
by iohs2008 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:41:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 3)

No.  791 people for a national poll?  Wake me up when it's closer to 1,500.

And there are two tracking polls and a Research 200 poll that put him up but 3 to 12 points.

My pull out of my ass estimate is that he's up by four or five points.

THis means that we still have work to do!  Register voters!  Inform you friends on issues!  Donate to the DNC/Obama/Local candidates!


by NewOaklandDem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:42:31 PM EST

ahead among registered voters (none / 0)

Among registered voters, McCain still trails Obama, but by less. He is behind by 3 percentage points in the new poll (47%-44%) vs. a 6-point disadvantage (48%-42%) in late June.

Results based on the survey of 791 likely voters have margins of error of +- 4 percentage points -- so McCain's lead is not outside that range. Results based on the survey of 900 registered voters also have margins of error of +- 4 percentage points.

Gallup editor Frank Newport tells Jill that "registered voters are much more important at the moment," because Election Day is still 100 days away, but that the likely-voter result suggests that it may be possible for McCain to energize Republicans and turn them out this fall.
http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/200 8/07/gains-for-mccai.html


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:43:54 PM EST

Re: ahead among registered voters (none / 0)

Looks like the number is, at least in part, an artifact of how they decide someone is a likely voter.  

He says the number of likely GOP voters is up for now, probably in part because of Obama's trip and the "laudatory" media coverage of it. "At least in the short term it may have had the side effect of energizing Republicans," he says. Also, he says that McCain's sharp words about Obama and the media last week may have energized his faithful.

Although, I must say, the Gallup pollster's claim that the difference between this and the tracking poll is "statistical noise," really makes me wonder how they're operating.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:48:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gallup pollsters says you shouldn't use LV (none / 0)

See my post above - Frank Newport of Gallup says that RV is a better thing to look at now.

So why are we bothering with LV numbers?


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:52:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ahead among registered voters (none / 0)

Why isn't Obama up by 15 points or so?  The GOP nominee is a joke and everything points to a huge Democratic year.  Where was the "Hillary is out of the race" huge bump for Obama?  Where is the "McCain is GWB Part 3" bounce?

I think Obama will win, but that it is so close is disconcerting given how weak of a candidate McCain is, in a terrible year for the GOP.


by reggie44pride on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:11:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ahead among registered voters (2.00 / 1)

He's black.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:39:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ahead among registered voters (2.00 / 1)

I know.  It's funny how the obvious variable of Obama being a black candidate in a country that still has a mean streak of racism is never mentioned when answering "why isn't he doing better?".

I know a number of people who won't vote for him because of his race.  To me, an average of 4 or more points over McCain is a remarkable feat.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:00:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ahead among registered voters (none / 0)

Maybe becasue 25% of the country thinks he was raised a Muslim, and 12% thinks he was sworn in on the Koran?

Ya think ?


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:00:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Some facts (none / 0)

Asuming all polls are balanced for demographics --
  1. do these polls account for an anticipated much higher than previous turnout by black voters?
  2. Do they correct for anticipated much higher turnout by youth voters?
  3. Do they poll folks without landlines?
  4. Do they poll folks who don't answer numbers they don't recognize?  (read poor)
  5. Registered voters might be important now to the pollsters -- but might we anticipate a significantr SURGE in newly registered voters just for this election?

Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:16:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

I would have to see more polls before this can be taken seriously .

Its early in the game to worry about the polls.

I don't see what Mccain has done in recent weeks to make himself more appealing and Obama has had a solid week by all accounts , the only misstep in my view was his answer on the surge ,if he were to do it again would he oppose it.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:43:57 PM EST

Re: The surge question (none / 0)

" He decided to stand on principle, which is probably the best he could've done "

 - He stood on politics in my view , I agree it was a gotcha question but the answer he gave was disingenuous .


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:52:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What was he supposed to say? (none / 0)

hey you just made my point more vivid.

It isn't a matter of principle , it is politics.

I agree with the implications of it politically for him but I think it is quite obvious to most folks that was what was in play in his answer.

It is not just credible to say the success of the surge couldn't have been predicted by anyone and at the same time say you would have voted against it having the info you have now.

I think that would be damaging to him.

That said I would still rather be him than Mccain


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:03:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If the surge was truly a success (none / 0)

But he is not saying that , he even implied on Meet the press that the surge has had more success than Mccain and Bush would have thought.

Your signature line is funny but true.

A lot of folks failed in their judgement of the surge including Clinton , Obama and I don't expect Mccain to stop pounding that.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:12:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If the surge was truly a success (none / 0)

Obama was right on:  He said the VIOLENCE dropped, but that the overall success of the SURGE, which was supposed to create a place where the Iraqis could make political progress towards a working government, could not be measured.

The Iraqis are still not able to walk their crumbling, filthy streets in safety, there's been a recent spike in sectarian violence, and we no longer have the ability to "SURGE".  The units that were cobbled together to achieve a "surge" must now rotate home.

Surge is over.  It was a crackpot Hail-Mary idea in the first place, and it has failed.  The Iraqis are nowhere near where they were supposed to be.


by dembluestates on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:17:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The reason it's because we ARE AT WAR! (none / 0)

People won't vote easily to give command of 2 war fronts to an experienced politician! In a time of war, people want to feel secure, and McCain, like it or not, is reassuring figure to a lot of people!


by suzieg on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 08:46:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

And, poll-wise we're still in the stupor-season. I'll be much more interested in September when the conventions are passed and the running mates chosed.

I do wonder what happens if McCain's latest biopsy and mole removal becomes the catalyst to the necessary discussion of McCain's fitness to be president. That 1,600-page, 8-year health report, visable for only 3 hours and with no photos allowed, was a disgrace. I can't believe the media allowed that to happen. Sooner or later there will be a real call for accountability on his health.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:44:00 PM EST

Re: A point? (2.00 / 1)

Mccain is at 49 not Obama .

Point of correction.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:44:50 PM EST

Re: Then I definitely don't believe it (none / 0)

And he still doesn't among RV - he's at 44% with them.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:13:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

His little workout at the Ritz gym instead of (none / 0)

visiting wounded soldiers erased any goodwill/advantage he had garnered - Major mistake and will pay dearly for it.

Everyone in the country knows that McCain would have raised a stink if anyone told him he couldn't visit wounded military men and women - His excuse was/is pathetic. He put adulation from Germans and his workout ahead of visiting american wounded soldiers - he will not be forgiven for this idiocy!


by suzieg on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 08:40:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

Not particularly.  Cherry picking has always been more your scene, Jerome.  I don't get too excited when he's up or down.  I think poll composites are a much more accurate portrayal of the current feelings of the electorate.


by Tenafly Viper on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:46:15 PM EST

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

I think he helps us from letting our heads get too big.  Which is good.  I really don't believe that he wants Obama to loose to McCain.


by NewOaklandDem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:48:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

This poll, while an outlier, is why Hillary must be on the ticket.

I think Democratic motivation is down right now, and she would energize a lot of Democrats who have doubts anout Obama.


by esconded on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:56:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

Man, that's the laugh I needed to get me out of my not so great mood.


by NewOaklandDem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:59:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 2)

Concerned? Of course! The race ought to be run as it were even. But what's your point? Ignore all polls? I do notice you have a propensity to cherry pick data and thus hurting your credibility. I would like it more if you explained the poll as some have. I do not like the weekend theory but the sample size does look awfully small. How good have USA commissioned Gallup polls fared? What are the internals? Why does the likely voter skew R in this poll when it is Ds who seem more enthusiastic?


by RAULC on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:48:30 PM EST

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

That is very odd.  Likely voters often skew Republican but this year it should be different.  


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:49:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

No, not really.  A lot of what goes into choosing who is a "likely voter" is asking "did you vote in the last election?"

Which means that young, disaffected, and first-time voters tend to be marked as not-likely even if they say they are planning to go to the polls.  Young, disaffected, and first-time voters are trending overwhelmingly Democratic this cycle.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:55:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Yes, in the past LV skewed Republican.

But, yes, I agree with you that this year will be different and that the screen for LV doesn't pick up a lot of Obama voters.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:14:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 2)

Your concern is noted.


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:06:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

"John Kerry was up by 4 points on this date in 2004 vs George Bush."

Kerry's largest "lead" was around 2-3 points for most of July-August.  In reality, given then MOE, he never really led by a significant margin.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Preside ntial_04/chart3way.html

"the foreign trip was a stupid idea"

No doubt, it was.  If you have to come back and defend a trip, it was dumb.  He should be WAY up over McCain at this point.  


by reggie44pride on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:16:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 2)

Why is Jerome trolling is own site?


by verbatim on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:50:00 PM EST

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

i think Jerome is doing it on purpose now to mock all those that are constantly bashing him on his own site. I think he's totally being sarcastic.


by alyssa chaos on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:56:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Some of the criticism is deserved - He's advocating offshore drilling in the hopes of getting Republicans on board with alternative energy development - wishful thinking in my book.


by NewOaklandDem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:06:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

I think you're right and I think it's sad.  It's completely disrespectful that he gets trashed on his own site, but if this is the level of discourse and analysis we're going to get from him this election season, I don't think he could rightfully expect anything but scorn.

60+% of Democrats are excited this season,  The FP contributors are very enganged, so if Jerome isn't I don't see why we should concern ourselves with his posts.  When he gets over his post-primary malaise,  I'd be glad to read a substantive post from him--even if it's one that I disagree with.


by Tenafly Viper on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:23:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Lol.


by rayj on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:56:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 3)

For a truly active discussion, sombody has to be wrong.  Jerome has always dared to be wrong in our service.  He is a true samurai.


Yes, I'm aware there's a possible misogynist reading of the myth. Sorry.
by Endymion on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:02:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

As soon as I read his post, I was going to make the same comment.  

Personally, I think the post the other day about Obama's massive lead amongst Hispanics just goaded Jerome out of hiding.  Because as those who have followed this blog since last year know, Obama is dooommed against McCain when it comes to the Latino vote.


by GobBluth on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:13:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

More like confused (none / 0)

Why does Gallup have one poll with McCain up by 4 while the tracking poll has Obama up by 8?


by RandyMI on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:55:18 PM EST

Re: More like confused (none / 0)

One reason is that McCain is ahead among those they define as likely voters. But there is still a discrepancy among the registered voter figure for USA Today/Gallup and the Gallup tracking poll. In one, Obama is +3; in the other, he's +8.  And they offer NO explanation for the discrepancy.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:58:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 4)

You know what's funny? Realclearpolitics.com never posted the last USA Today/Gallup poll. I kept looking and looking for it and it never showed up. Its +6 for Obama would have brought up the average.  

But now, whoosh, it's right in there, bringing down the poll average.  If you look at the list of the recent polls, it sure looks like an outlier.

Never forget that RCP is run by partisan Republicans.

But no matter what we think about the polls, it's always a good time to work hard to put a Democrat in the WH!


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:56:40 PM EST

Metaphors (none / 0)

This is the attrition stage of the battle.  Some indications that the Rightists will ultimately break crop up from time to time, and we're on guard against weaknesses in our own ranks.  But the rout will come, and not too late to be decisive.  We must try to manage the timing as best we can--at or below 30%, McCain will begin to reform his troops as his deserters' shame overcomes all else.  


Yes, I'm aware there's a possible misogynist reading of the myth. Sorry.
by Endymion on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 03:59:45 PM EST

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

Nope.


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:00:35 PM EST

Jerome is Auditioning (2.00 / 3)

He's auditioning for Sunday talk, but in order to do so he must learn to concern troll like Susan Estrich, Lanny Davis and Pat Caddell.


by RandyMI on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:00:43 PM EST

Re: Jerome is Auditioning (2.00 / 1)

No kidding.  An emerging bounce in daily tracking polls from both Gallup and Ras doesn't rate a Jerome post, but this poll does.  Interesting.

Although I am deeply, deeply concerned with the thoughts of Mario Cuomo.  After all, I think that most voters, informed that Mario Cuomo has not endorsed Obama, would respond, "Mario who?  Who's he?"


Saxby Chambliss
by bosdcla14 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:19:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerome is Auditioning (none / 0)

Exactly.  When did Mario Fricken' Cuomo become such an indefatigable barometer?


I'm as strong as a bull moose, and you can use me to the limit. - Teddy Roosevelt
by fogiv on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:18:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 4)

Guys, Jerome is not trolling his own site. He asks if we are concerned. I, for one, am concerned.

Concerned, however, doesn't mean panicked, for all of the various reasons that other folks have mentioned here. The Friday-Sunday argument, Gallup's likely voter screens, statistical noise: any and all may be relevant.

Serendipitously, my wife and I, who are house and dog sitting for the kids while our new granddaughter gets introduced to the other side of the family, dropped in last week on the opening of the new Nueces County Democratic Party HQ opening/unity party in Corpus Christi, TX. The local voter registrar (a Democrat , thank goodness) nailed it when he said, "It won't matter if we register 140,000 Democrats if only 50,000 of them turn up to vote."

The takeaway here is the apparent gap between likely and registered voters. We know that we Democrats have been doing real well in new voter registrations this year. But registrations aren't votes. GOTV is the name of the game.


by jlmccreery on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:04:10 PM EST

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

Good points all.  Let's turn Texas blue!


by NewOaklandDem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:08:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

I expect the poll numbers to go up for McCain. He's attacking Obama for flip-flopping, for not supporting the troops, for wanting to lose a war, etc.  What's Obama's response?  A tepid smile and a soft rebuttal.  Lame.  I'm a Democrat and I support Obama 100%; however, we need to toughen up and attack the GOP and McCain hard.


by Steve24 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:13:18 PM EST

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

No.

Really, you find reality to be narcissistic?


by Jerome Armstrong on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:15:23 PM EST

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 4)

Jerome, I must concur.

Of all the FP posters I have not read a single line that shows you are actually excited for well our party is doing.

Compare your diaries to those of your excellent writers Josh and Johnathan.

A new user here might wonder if politics is even your passion.

Why not write one diary that at the least shows what good we are doing right and how we can do that better.

You have an enormous platform and I think many of us are flumexed at why you don't use it at all.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:33:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 3)

I suspect Jerome is more interested in the success or failure of the progressive movement than in the fate of "our party."

Some people seem to treat all this as a sporting event where the only thing that matters is scoring the most points by the fourth quarter so that we can have a parade.  We don't get to just win an election and then live happily ever after.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:45:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think you're missing the point... (2.00 / 1)

Even if that were true why did you have to write it for him?  


by Tenafly Viper on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:49:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think you're missing the point... (2.00 / 1)

It's the sort of thing that used to go without saying.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:56:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think you're missing the point... (2.00 / 1)

Perhaps it used to be true.  There's no evidence it is now.


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:20:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think you're missing the point... (none / 0)

Well that would make you a Johnny come lately.

Jerome has been in the trenches long enough to have earned respect from progressives. His credentials are solid.

Or maybe to you it's always a case of "what have you done for me lately"?


"Fear not the path of truth, for the lack of people walking on it" Bobby Kennedy
by Narrowback gal on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 10:29:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think you're missing the point... (none / 0)

Man Steve M is dense.
First, very presumptious and almost fanboy like that you state you know what his inner thoughts are.  

Second, what distinguishes this site from other large Democratic blogs is the focus on elections.
I can get you quotes from Jerome stating just that when describing his blog (check youtube).

Third, Steve M.  Since you know what Jerome is thinking, than I guess you would admit that the biggest blow to progressive causes would be John McCain winning this year.

Democrats winning this fall and next fall and the fall after that is paramount to achieving our Progressive agenda.

The idea of another Neo-Con judge in the Supreme Court sends shivers up my spine.
If there was ever once that the GOP scared me, its the prospect of them destroying 1/3 of our Federal government with another Sam Alito.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:59:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think you're missing the point... (2.00 / 3)

Wow, it is "almost fanboy like" to say that I suspect Jerome is thinking such and such.  What an amazing comment.

The reason not to sit at your keyboard and jerk off to one election post after another is that at the end of the day, elections are still just a means to an end.  A lot of people have lost focus on the issues and seem content to just sit back and see what wonderful place Barack Obama is going to take us to.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:03:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think you're missing the point... (none / 0)

And to think that Steve M ( from sky news media ?), who has been here for all of one month, knows so much about Jerome?


by venician on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:40:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

False and baseless accusations (none / 0)

Wrong and wrong. Steve M has been here for a long, long time, and has nothing to do with Sky news service (whatever that is). What is with all of the johnny-come-latelys who have no clue about how things work around here but love to hurl baseless accusations?


by LakersFan on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:33:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think you're missing the point... (none / 0)

Wrong, wrong and wrong.  Steve M has been around here for quite a long time. He's always been a strong progressive voice (he supported Edwards during the primaries) and his comments tend to be very thoughtful. You have no idea what you're talking about.


"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety". Salvor Hardin
by Denny Crane on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:19:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I think you're missing the point... (none / 0)

?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 09:09:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

That might make sense if Jerome were a progressive.


by bruh3 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:37:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

So what is Jerome?  For that matter, what is a progressive?

Political organizing is all about convincing a bunch of people that they all believe in the same thing, and then doing something collectively.  Everything else is just clever packaging.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:40:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

I am not particularly for Obama as much as the Democratic nominee who is Obama. Let's just cut to the chase since I've read what you've had to say over at Talk Left and know what you think on issues.

As for what's progressive, I don't think Obama or Clinton are progressives. Edwards was the closest viable candidate who was sort of progressive, but even he wasn't really fully on the issues truly that progressive.

Let's just put it this way- no one who supports Warner as Jerome does is all that progressive. And, I like Warner enough because he helped trend my homestate blue, but I don't confuse where he fits on the spectrum just because I like him.

You asserted a reason for Jerome's behavior. I think since you brought it up- that the counter would be that Jerome is just someone who is personality driven in his views.

If he likes you- then he will say all sorts of stuff in favor of you like say when he supported Harold Ford, who by any stretch of the imagination isn't a progressive either. If he dislike you, he will undermine you like what he's doing with Obama now. The fact he would cite a poll that even the pollster who did it was admitting was kind of bad is to say the least- biased. I think a lot of this for many is personality. Do they like x, y or z. A progressive wouldn't be so focused on personality. A lot  of people to me this cycle, whether for a candidate or against them, are showing their true colors about what takes priority. their values or their personality considerations.


by bruh3 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:51:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

I agree. I think Obama was only stronger on foreign policy and Clinton had healthcare. There is no reason if you supported one not to support the other, if you are just looking at issues.


by Lolis on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 11:42:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Hard to believe anyone knows Obama's personality well enough to make a judgement about it. He's pretty much a mystery as far as I can tell. Maybe someday he'll address voters as adults, but he hasn't so far.


by NealB on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:33:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

No, just your reality.


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:33:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 4)

Jerome, you have been Eeyore to this election for months now, posting only when you've found a fly of sufficient size to put in the ointment. Your like this site's personal Slate Magazine columnist -- frequently seeking out contrarian positions over any kind of real analysis. This may be a leftover from your Hillary-propping days. Even though you claimed you were an Edwards man who had no choice but to choose Hillary -- you at least seemed 'into' her, as opposed to Obama. I don't think that makes you a bad person, heck, if there are real concerns to be had about Obama -- offer them. Make a case. Make it strong. Shut us up. But this kind of "oooh, look, I've nothing much to say but to point out a single bad poll and a single holdover Democrat" stuff makes you look petty.

Reality has a known bias towards serious discussion.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:37:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Who knows what Obama stands for? (none / 0)

I have no idea whether Jerome Armstrong has a beef about Obama, but I do. Obama has no principles. For the life of me, the further we get into this campaign, the less I know about the guy. For all we know at this point, the worst rumors of the wingnuts may be true. Obama doesn't seem to actually stand up and fight for anything. I fail to see how he's much different from McCain. They're both befuddled.

If we get Obama elected I honestly have no idea what we'll be getting.

None of us know what he stands for.


by NealB on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 04:53:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 3)

I think we are more concerned about your cheery-picking of stories and polls to make your point.  Every -other- measure shows Obama with a small lead (possibly outside the margin of error).  But you choose to air today's Gallup/USA Today poll even while Gallup's own tracking poll shows Obama up in the last three days than at any other time.

And then you cheery-pick a story about Mario Cuomo that came out yesterday or the day before.  Everyone who is everyone in the Democratic Party has endorsed Obama.  Republicans formerly in the Bush Admin. have endorsed him today.  But, instead, you choose Mario Cuomo.  If this were 1992 and he was choosing not to endorse our nominee, Bill Clinton, then we might have a problem.

It just appears, and probably is true, that you are intentionally doing this to fulfill your own perceived reality.  The whole "Obama is losing because he isn't winning by enough" meme is such garbage as to be laughable.  It's July, and he's up.  Why don't we all work to making sure he's up by more once November rolls around then sit around playing arm-chair quarterback for the one dropped pass when our team is up at half-time.


by DCInertia on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:37:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Please note my own ironic spelling of "cherry."  I apologize for being a clutz with the English language.


by DCInertia on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:39:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

You're off base.
Mario Cumo, Geraldine Ferrao and Harriet Christian make up a core wing of the Democratic Party.

:-)


A PROUD Hopium user!
by xodus1914 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:36:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What reality? (2.00 / 2)

This is a non-story supported by nothing more than one slice of one poll. Every other piece of conventional wisdom, plus the general mood of the country, points (at this time) to an Obama win to an Obama landslide.

I have been enthralled by your excellent writing for months before joining, but I find the tone of this entry to be, well, unnecessarily concerned and pessimistic, and quite frankly, out of touch with reality. As I have said before, I detect a tone of bitterness. I may be mistaken, and I hope I am, but every time you write about Obama, there is a strangely negative tone.


I attended PUMACon '08!!!
by iohs2008 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:47:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

"Former Gov. Mario Cuomo expressed concern."  Concern.  Bwahahahaha!


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:19:29 PM EST

This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (2.00 / 2)

It's just too precious.


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:20:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (2.00 / 1)

Let me just say that Mario Cuomo is the LAST person who should be complaining about Democrats being overly cautious.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:28:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (2.00 / 2)

Most are too stuck to even try to get it.


by Jerome Armstrong on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:30:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (none / 0)

Jerome, for the sake of your members can you follow site rules and indicate that it is snark?

And for that matter if you are writing Snark articles can you indicate which others ones were?

Was the oil drilling one for real?

thanks


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:39:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (2.00 / 1)

Ah, a double loop back snark that sounds exactly like most of your other posts.

Very tricky!!!

Big applause, as I was roped in.

Cheers!


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:45:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (none / 0)

I'm not surprised.


by Jerome Armstrong on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:01:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (none / 0)

Oh, now I need a hug.


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:06:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (none / 0)

had a feeling that it was. the whole 'concerned?' was the give away.

the faux outrage by some users is too much.its hilarious.


by alyssa chaos on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:02:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (2.00 / 2)

I'm sure many of us got the spirit of your post.  But as usual your satirical efforts are more mean-spirited than funny.  

We get it; you don't like Obama supporters.  If there was any confusion about your intent, it's only because most of us would have thought it beneath you.


by Tenafly Viper on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:06:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (none / 0)

This is a pretty gentle poke from Jerome compared to the gigantic dumps that the usual suspects tend to leave all over his posts.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:12:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (none / 0)

Steve M,

You sure do like to answer for Jerome a lot.  Just an observation.


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:18:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (2.00 / 1)

Perhaps I am his better-spelling sock puppet.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:21:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (none / 0)

Intreguing!


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:32:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (none / 0)

"mean-spirited" - exactly what I was thinking after reading this diary and Jerome's follow up posts of how  clever he is and the "ha ha, I got you,  you're all idiots".  I'd even say meanspirited is a little too kind of a description of this behavior, but I admire your restraint/manners.  To be fair, he does get heckled a lot, for various reasons, many legitimate, but heckled nonetheless, so I guess I understand the "why" to his lashing out (nothing to do with spite or primary loss, no way)

Just so we all know, Obama supporters are all naive, unintelligent, and are equipped with poorly operating snark detectors, oh, did I mention, we're morans?  

Feel good moment of the day, thanks Jerome!    


by KLRinLA on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:21:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (2.00 / 3)

Generally, when you tell a joke and nobody laughs, it's not because they're bad at getting jokes.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:34:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This has to be some sort of elaborate snark (none / 0)

I laughed at this, so what does that mean?


by mrrara on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:13:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Not only that but if you look at what he is talking about the quote is obviously old.  I thought sites like this were out there to give us what old media wouldn't, not turn into it.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:23:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Hm?  It's an article from Saturday that says he made the comment before an event last Friday night.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:30:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Did Jerome just quote Cuomo... (2.00 / 1)

...saying that he wasn't sure if he was endorsing Obama or Clinton?

I've heard of "always fighting the last war," but this is ridiculous.  How does Cuomo's endorsement affect the current race one bit?  Is Cuomo's concern over the death penalty going to suddenly make him vote for John "Death!" McCain?


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:19:54 PM EST

Re: Did Jerome just quote Cuomo... (2.00 / 1)

It is a pre concession quote that was obviously requoted for this article.  Jerome was looking so hard for someone to back up his "concern trolling" that it looks like he didn't bother to even give the quote a cursory full read.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:26:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Did Jerome just quote Cuomo... (2.00 / 1)

Yea I noticed that too.

I was like "Man, someone has to tell these politicians to tone it down in their old age.  Someone remind Cuomo that the primary's ended 2 months ago."

But as it turns out, this is a snark piece.
(Jerome says so above)

So for Snark, its pretty funny.  Not sure who is at the receiving end of this snark.

I suppose he is mocking the trolls that hijack this site every day.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:42:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

So you pick the only recent poll that doesn't show a bump, without noting that fact, and then you quote Cuomo, whose criticism makes no sense?  Not sure what your point is here, other than yet another passive aggressive swipe at a candidate you don't particularly like.    

As to the poll, it sure looks like an outlier based upon an odd LV screen.  It still has Obama leading when it looks at RVs.  Regardless, it's one poll.  Who cares?  

Similarly, Cuomo's criticism is insane if you've ever visited Obama's website, which is full of detailed policy proposals and white papers.  It sure would be helpful if the Governor would tell us what issue he'd like to know more about, because I suspect the answers are all out there already.  Honestly, as a former fan of Governor Cuomo who (1) badly wanted him to run for president; and (2) was disappointed when he turned down Clinton's offer to place him on the Supreme Court, this quote is embarrassing.  Both Obama and CLinton ran on quite specific platforms.    


by HSTruman on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:23:40 PM EST

100 days to go (2.00 / 1)

This poll should be cause for concern among all of us.

The last thing we need is Rethugs thinking they might just have a chance.

Let's get the media to do their job, and this will change pronto.

Write, call, eMail in and ask why they're giving McCain a pass on his shameful attacks, why a recent study says Obama's media coverage has been unrelentingly negative.

The MSM want nothing better than a 2-point lead by whoever on November 1, and ratings victories for them as viewers and readers remain glued to their screens all thru this Election.

 


by dembluestates on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:23:40 PM EST

Mario Cuomo (2.00 / 1)

There's a real winner. First he chickened out of the presidential race, then he failed to get re-elected governor in 1994. Other "concerned" winners.

Lanny Davis (no comment needed)
Susan Estrich (ran the Dukakis campaign)
Pat Caddell (Jimmy Carter. Caddell went of the reservation years ago).


by RandyMI on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:24:04 PM EST

Are you serious? (2.00 / 1)

Cuomo was a three term governor of the second largest state in the country, and an incredibly articulate spokesman for the Party.

So he didn't get a fourth term, and went down to defeat in the worst cycle for Democrats in over 50 years. You're saying that tarnishes his reputation as a "winner"??? That's about as logical as trashing Reagan for carrying 49 states and losing Minnesota.

Get serious. Governor Cuomo has not embraced your candidate. He has a different opinion, get it? That doesn't make him the enemy, and it doesn't make him a loser, which is what you're implying.


by BJJ Fighter on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:50:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Are you serious? (none / 0)

He's not the enemy, but just because he won in the Democratic years of 1982, 1986 and beat  Pierre Rinfret in 1990 doesn't mean I'm going to quake over what he says either.


by RandyMI on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:56:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Are you serious? (none / 0)

"Governor Cuomo has not embraced YOUR candidate."

Which side are you on?


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:59:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Are you serious? (none / 0)

This guy is not on our side, he is a known Puma, just read his comment history.

If Cuomo just made that statement, the man is losing his marbles.

Also, don't you guys remember the Fox news smear that Malkin tried to do, where they said OBama was plagiarizing Cuomos speech.   Right on the Fox propaganda program, they played them back to back.
Ah man it was funny, I got to embed it.
Check it out:


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:02:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Are you serious? (none / 0)

Thanks for posting that video.  That is just so...unintentionally funny.

The wackos at Fox Noise are really getting desperate.  

The comic releif was much appreciated!


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:21:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Are you serious? (none / 0)

One other thing:  Is it me, or does Malkin make your skin crawl also?

I almost want to call her the "C" word.


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:23:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Are you serious? (none / 0)

The C word is totally appropriate for her.

She is definitely on my top ten list of Worst People in America (excluding elected officials).

Also, that clip was not unintentionaly funny, the show The Young Turks tries to add humor to the show.

In the end Politics and Government is a funny system we all love.

Check out the show, it loops all day, is live at 9pm est on TheYoungTurks.com,  is also live (first two hours) on Air America, and is on XM for the morning drive (not live)


by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:15:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am concerned for I think the Obama (none / 0)

campaign just has NOT been aggressive enought.  In June they were atttacking McCain as Bush's third term and now they are playing prevent defense.  

The Obama campaign should be going on OFFENSE on the economy every day from now until election day.

They should be giving SPECIFIC proposals to campaign on and blast McCain every day.

I hope this poll wakes up the Obama campaign.


by puma on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:31:24 PM EST

Re: I am concerned for I think the Obama (none / 0)

I'm not crazy about too many specifics.

Kerry and Gore had tons of specifics that got picked apart, ridiculed and thrown back at them as twisted parodies of their original thoughts.

The more specifics you put out there, the more ammo you give the Repubs.

But I do agree that the Obama team better get very aggressive after the Conventions.


by Bush Bites on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:43:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Why don't you just save yourself and everyone some energy and say we're going to lose the election? Then at least you will have told us what you really think.


by RandyMI on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:38:46 PM EST

According to that poll, 98% of registered (2.00 / 2)

voters who prefer McCain will turn out for him.

98%.

That's over 40 points higher than it was for Bush/Kerry in 2004.

Pollsta, please.


by Geekesque on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:44:27 PM EST

Re: According to that poll, 98% of registered (none / 0)

That can't possibly be true.  Gallup's up to something funny - did you see these remarks?

'Gallup pollster Frank Newport speculates that for his poll, Republicans are listing themselves as likely voters in greater numbers because of all the press coverage surrounding Obama's overseas trip and the crowds welcoming him in Europe: "At least in the short term it may have had the side effect of energizing Republicans."'

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsm emo.com/2008/07/new_poll_mccain_leading_ among.php

Likely voters get to self-select?  On what planet?


by NewOaklandDem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 04:52:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: According to that poll, 98% of registered (none / 0)

Let's not be whiners because this poll shows our candidates down. Let's be classy. If the same sample were used to find Obama ahead, you would not be protesting.


by kingsbridge77 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:02:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: According to that poll, 98% of registered (none / 0)

No, probably not.  But the fact is that the sample size is quite small for a national poll, and aparently likely voters get to self-select, which in my opinion is wrong.


by NewOaklandDem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:04:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: According to that poll, 98% of registered (none / 0)

Classy?, why would we need to be classy, this is a site for Democrats.  

You talk like there are two sides here.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:06:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The concern troll definition of 'classy' (2.00 / 2)

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/6/9/21 4122/3067/19

Michelle was proud of America only once as an adult: When the people chose her husband as the Democratic nominee.

http://www.mydd.com/comments/2008/6/4/13 281/89877/4

Why does Obama lie so much?

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/6/4/13281 /89877

The pattern grows. WAPO catches Obama on yet another lie
by kingsbridge77, Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:28:01 PM EST

Once again, Barry has been caught making stuff up. Credit to the Washington Post fact-checker for noting this new lie.


by Geekesque on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:35:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Its funny.  We never see anything about Obama's good polling.  You know all the other polls that show Obama with a 5-9 point lead.  But he of course starts a diary about the one poll showing him losing.  Talk about cherry picking looking for bad news.


by Marylander on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:09:12 PM EST

Reading too much in tracking polls (none / 0)

In my opinion. See a lead of 3-4 % isnt much at this point in the election. The picture will only become clearer in September when the conventions get over and the candidates start debting. If McCain's performance is as bad as it was in the Republican debates, then Obama is going to win even if debates are a weak point for him.


by ann0nymous on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:09:14 PM EST

Is anybody concerned that I'm concerned? (none / 0)

1) I'm concerned about this country's total debt = 9.5 trillion dollars that equates to $30,400 per person U.S. population, or $60,100 per head of the U.S. working population.

  1. I'm concerned that our dollars are being pocketed by corrupt pols in Iraq and Pakistan.
  2. I'm concerned that our leaders have little clue about the economic mess that we are getting into or how to lead us out of it.
  3. I'm concerned that by constantly bailing out Wall Street, we are effectively lowering the risks associated with 'bad' investments.
  4. I'm concerned that the Big Three car companies are teetering to the brink of collapse
  5. I'm concerned that airlines practically treat us passengers like shit.
  6.  I'm concerned that US has practically given up its manufacturing. One cannot train out of the next technology jobs anymore....
  7. I'm concerned that our investments in Science and Technology are stagnating or taking a back step.
  8. I'm concerned that next generation scientists and engineers are going to be harder to find.
10)I'm concerned about the religious extremists influence over our Govt. and our Judiciary.
11)I'm concerned that you don't give a jack-shit about my concerns...

Add your concerns to the list...


by louisprandtl on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:10:06 PM EST

sorry my formatting was messed up...n/t (none / 0)


by louisprandtl on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:27:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I CALLED IT! (2.00 / 1)

I KNEW Jerome was going to make a post that referenced this poll!


I voted for Hillary!
by deepee on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:30:08 PM EST

Re: I CALLED IT! (none / 0)

it doesn't even seem like he read what the pollster himself said of his poll- namely that a likely voter  model this far out isn't very useful.


by bruh3 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:35:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A hint (1.66 / 3)

Jerome, when it gets to the point that you are trolling and then mocking your own audience, you may be getting close to jumping the blogging shark.

We get it.  You don't like Obama, you don't like Obama supporters, and you're jealous and angry that kos got it right and you got it wrong.  But it's time to stop sulking.

The more you write this sort of diary, the more you drive away the very people giving you ad impressions.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:32:52 PM EST

Mario Cuomo, Hamlet on the Hudson (none / 0)

"You campaign in poetry.  You govern in prose."


Our Moment Is Now
by mboehm on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:40:48 PM EST

Jerome ?!?!?! (none / 0)

I am confused man with this final parting line on your diary:

But until the sale is made, at least, the sarcastic take above on the single poll shows that it's very easy to rile up the concern trolling accusers-- thin skinned troupe there.

Are you calling the members of your site this?

Because I would say 98% of the commentors here are all on the same page.

You keep acting like there is some war going on, but Unity is strong.

We are willing to do whatever it takes to take our government back and make it work again for the people, not the neocons.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:43:39 PM EST

Re: Jerome ?!?!?! (none / 0)

Yep, he's basically teeling us that we are thin skinned.

Now, we know that Jerome has the ultimate power on this site, and can ban us into oblivion.  Has Jerome ever done a mass banning on this site, in a fit a pique?

Let me see...


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:49:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

I'm sorry, Jerome, but this is basically right.  Pretty much the only posts I see you post recently are basically not related to the presidential contest (which is fine, this is about more than the President), or if they are, are sort of the the "I told you so" variety.  

When Gallup releases two polls that literally show Obama doing his best AND his worst over the same period of time vs. McCain, and one poll is more in line with the others right now, you choose to pick out the obvious outlier as sort of your justification that Obama is a bad candidate or something?  Wonderful.  Keep up the good work.

If other polls suddenly show a massive reversal, perhaps we'll have something to worry about.  So far, all the polls have been fairly consistent except for this one.  Obviously an outlier.


by leshrac55 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 05:59:54 PM EST

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

I would be concerned if I hadn't bothered to read the pollster himself disavowing his own poll.


by bruh3 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:34:16 PM EST

My only real concern (none / 0)

Is that Axelrod doesn't have a plan for after the Convention.

I'm hopefully assuming that they're just introducing Obama to the country right now, and taking McCain's hits as they come--sort of feeling him out with a rope a dope strategy.

I pray that they have a different plan for after the convention: Like a different attack line every week and a concentrated attempt to use every resource at their disposal to drive McCain to melt down.

We'll see.


by Bush Bites on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:35:05 PM EST

Re: My only real concern (none / 0)

Hmmm, not buying it man.

Like I always say, step out of the bubble.

Do you really think America knows the difference between before and after the convention.

I would put money down that 80% of Americans couldn't even tell you what a Primary is.

So my point, the game doesn't change, it just gets more fierce.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:51:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My only real concern (none / 0)

Actually compared to previous Democratic campaigns they are ahead of curve. For get the media for a second- they are organizing heavily in all of the so-called battleground states and new states that weren't battle grounds the last time. So compared to Kerry etc, he has a really strong plan and I find your post a little confusing. This organizing by the way is supposedly better than McCain's organization in the states.


by bruh3 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:58:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

I don't believe I've ever seen a blogger that has more contempt for his own readership than Jerome does.

He trolls, then argues he was being sarcastic when nobody supposedly "gets" it. Yeah, yeah, Jerome's a sarcastic troll with a lame sense of humor -- and he somehow thinks that's a good thing and an excuse for his lame-humored trollery.


by Aris Katsaris2 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:51:27 PM EST

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

I dont mean to point out the obvious but he can do whatever the fuck he wants: it's his site after all! The idiots at DailyKos think they own the Dem party while the people at OpenLeft believe they are a think tank, compared to the trash over there MyDD is way better.


by bsavage on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:59:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Your views are odd. Magazines owners own their magazines too, but I would bet they don't believe that to mean they can say whatever without criticism. He owns the site, not what we think of his views. If he doesn't want comments that disagree with him then he should just turn off comments altogether so there is no illusion of open discourse.


by bruh3 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:02:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Jerome rarely posts here, the way I see it, he can do whatever he wants. I would still come this site even if there were no discussion. I like news more than anything else.


by bsavage on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:08:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

And who are you supporting for President?

Thats what I thought..........

People, you got to check people's posting and commenting history before you take them seriously.

Obviously this guy has ZERO problem with the bashing of the Democratic party.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:10:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

I like accurate news. Accurate news would be going to pollster.com, fivethirtyeight and other sites to gain perspective on what things mean. It would mean reading the AP, Wallstreet Journal and multiple other sources. News to me doesn't equal reading a blog that's biased in a way that you are obviously biased.  So when you say news- I have no idea what you mean other than you somehow think that's a swipe at me. All you really do there is confirm you have no idea with whom you are talking. If you did, you wouldn't be making such a statement.

You also didn't respond to my point. that you statement over who owns the site is irrelevant to the ability of others to criticize what he is saying, and if he doesn't want the criticism- he should turn off the comments sections completely like say an Andrew Sullivan does. That way there is no illusion that he's interested in dissenting views. Since he leaves it on, your comment is at best a misdirection, and more likely just a way to shut down criticism you don't want to hear. Either way, it's not going to work.


by bruh3 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:25:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Well, I'm not Jerome. As for news, i get my news from the nytimes, MSNBC, CNN, Reuters, but politically this place along with TPM has great political news.


by bsavage on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:35:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

There's just one huge difference: You pay to read a magazine. Jerome pays so we can read this site for free.


by LakersFan on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:44:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

I wouldn't exactly refer to mydd as a humanitarian gift.  MyDD still makes money through it's readership by attracting advertising revenue through the number of hits it receives.  That would be how the site pays for it's own existence and in fact it likely it pulls in a little money on the side.

I don't know if anyone else noticed but over the course of the primary wars--when the sites readership grew, the ads became larger and much more prominent.  I'm not criticizing on that account.  That's just the way that a blog works.  But I do think it's rather silly to imply that Jerome owes nothing to his readership for the existence of this site.


by Tenafly Viper on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:17:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

The site can only exist because we are here, and we participate.

Otherwise, Jerome is a lonely voice in the blogosphere, like the rest of us.


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:32:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

What I am gathering is that some people don't understand that there is a business model behind sites like this. And you are right- without people in the form of clicks and eyeballs coming here, then he's no more important than you or I.


by bruh3 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:50:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

I totally get the business model. That's why I never visit certain sites. But similarly, I don't spend my time trashing the site hosts. It's unproductive, and only puts money in the pocket of people I don't like.


by LakersFan on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 09:04:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

If you look at my history I haven't been in here a long while. Also, there hasn't be some space between trashing and criticism and toadie. People have a tendency towards hyperbole on line. Do you consider disagreement over a particular writer's statement on a particular blog the same as disagreeing with all writers on that same blog? I ask that because of the hyperbole of describing criticism of Jerome as trashing the entire blog.  Even at the height of the silly primary season I would visit Talk Left and Daily Kos just to read the occasional good post. I didn't think of it as trashing to point out that most of it was nevertheless crap.


by bruh3 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 10:07:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Who's hyperbole was that? I didn't say criticizing Jerome was trashing the blog. I said visiting a site and trashing its owners is bad form. Just like visiting someone's home and trashing them is bad manners. If you don't like the host, why visit them?


by LakersFan on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 10:15:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

This isn't a home. It's a media business. Media businesses are criticized all the time even with in the pages of said business. Like I said, you are just being silly and I can't handle silly arguments online anymore. good luck. I m done.


by bruh3 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 10:21:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Is someone offering a humanitarian gift? I just thought he was hosting a website and letting us all post to our hearts content. That's good enough for me. Last time I checked, the internet wasn't free, and I have to suspect that along with more traffic and more advertisers, Jerome has also incurred more expenses.

Jerome (and other site owners) owe absolutely NOTHING to their readership. It's really simple. If you don't like a site, don't visit it.


by LakersFan on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:52:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

If you feel like this site would exist without advertising revenue that's your opinion and I strongly disagree.  But your contention was that Jerome is sacrificing money in order to give us a free space to post on,  that's just patently false.  

As I said in my previous post, MYDD is a money making enterprise and it would not be so without a readership. And even if Jerome continued MYDD as a labor of love, if no one read the site what purpose would it serve regardless?  

So when I said:

But I do think it's rather silly to imply that Jerome owes nothing to his readership for the existence of this site.

It can't really be contended with because it was actually meant to be literal--and it is literally true.  So if your contending with it in philosophical terms, I think you'll have to look for another strawman to wrestle with.


by Tenafly Viper on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 09:41:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

"Jerome (and other site owners) owe absolutely NOTHING to their readership. "

What you don't understand is that it works the other way around as well. If he doesn't owe us civility then we don't owe him civility either.

"If you don't like a site, don't visit it."

I like the site (mildly, not exactly loving it nowadays)) in spite of Jerome, not because of him. Thankfully he isn't the only poster -- there's also people like Todd and Jonathan and Josh, not to mention the random diarists.


by Aris Katsaris2 on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 12:35:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

And I have no problem with any of that. That's what it's all about. You love some of it, you hate some of it, you go on.

What I have a problem with is the people who choose to come here but spend their time whining about how the site is run or jumping at every chance to point out how any of the site owners/admins are wrong or stupid or ruining the site, etc., etc. If it's such an awful place, don't come. If you're here just to challenge the site admins, give it a rest because it's boring to the rest of us. (And I'm using "you" in the generic sense -- I'm not going through your posting history to find out whether you're a whiner -- it sounds from your post above that you aren't).

It seems that the visitors here are the ones that start the "uncivil" behavior, so I can't really blame any of the admins if they get sucked into snark and sarcasm from time to time.


by LakersFan on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 01:55:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

That's not a huge difference. It's a distinction without any real value. If he doesn't want dissenting views. he shouldn't have a comment section. There are free papers that are published in NYC such as the Village Voice. They have letters to the editor section in which people totally rip the management. By your logic, they shouldn't have those sections because they are "free." Which isn't accurate since Jerome can't make money off this site without the advertisement which is in fact a product of the traffic that he can prove through site meters that he gets. In other words, it's our site as readers too. He knows this as well as I do. If his site traffic goes down, then so does his revenue.


by bruh3 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:48:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

But do those magazines print all of the letters? Or do the editors just hand-pick a select few for printing?

See? It's not like a magazine at all.


by LakersFan on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:56:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Your arguments are starting to be silly, and so this will be my last response to you. As a practical matter, magazines don't have the space as an online blog, and therefore, of course, they can't publish every critical letter like a blog can because their mode of distribution doesn't offline allow them to do so. Yet, online magazine letters tend to be far more inclusive so even that argument is hard for you to make as a serious one. That's the practical reality.


by bruh3 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 10:19:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (1.25 / 4)

I "hope" the great one loses.  Although, if I had to put money on it, I think Obama is going to win. If he picks Clinton as the VP, then its really over. But not yet.


by bsavage on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 06:56:44 PM EST

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Trolled for being a troll.

Supporting McCain is a bannable offense.  

By hoping the Democrats lose, you also hope that Bush wins his third term.


by DemsLandslide2008 on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:12:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (1.33 / 3)

Who made you God? I'm not hoping the "Democrats" lose, just Obama. I hope people running for Gov, House, Senate and locally win. I dont like the nominee, really its that simple.


by bsavage on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 07:38:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 2)

"Who made you God?"

I did, (well just a semi-demi-god really).  

I have granted him the ability to fly, and see through walls.  In addition, he is now allowed to tell dicks like you to fuck off.

FEAR ME!


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:37:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

Greatest.

Come back.

EVAAAARRRR!!!

Enjoy mojo responsibly.


by Trowaman on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:43:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (2.00 / 1)

Thank you!  I'll be here all week.


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:48:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Does this mean that Jerome needs to ban himself? ::ponder::


by mrrara on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 09:55:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

seriously (2.00 / 1)

Does anyone out there seriously think that if Obama's name was "Joe Christian White" and everything else was the same except his skin color -- his policies, his experience, his foreign national father and hippie mother, his grade school years in the Philippines, his soaring rhetoric and youthful energy -- that the guy wouldn't be up on McCain at least 15 points by now?

Come on.  The difference between Barack Obama and "any generic Democrat" is nothing but his skin color, his strange name, his middle name and his scary ex-preacher.

This is a steep learning curve for the American public and a certain percentage of them will never make the curve but enough of them will.  They'll get used to a black presidential candidate with a different scary sounding name just like they got used to other scary new things throughout history.

Yeah, it's going to be close.  duh.  This is the first black candidate, AFTERALL.  That's why we have to get out there and make it happen.


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Mon Jul 28, 2008 at 08:28:43 PM EST

No, he's a realist! Seniors and women over 50 (none / 0)

are just not into Obama - we've been around long enough and seen/heard them all, so we are not so easily swayed by florishing words + running, not as a centrist but a conservative goes against everything we've fought for, over the years!

We were the backbone of the party, the reliable voters until Obama threw us under the bus to get your votes! Among many reproaches I have of him, the most glaring is his pitting one generation against another!

they will not come out to vote for him in November, they'll rather stay home than do so or vote McCain/Nader/Green/third party instead to send a message that their votes are not to be taken for granted! You've inherited the party, win this election on your own!

 


by suzieg on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 08:34:46 AM EST

Re: Many days to go (none / 0)

Concern trolling, fun for friends, family, and a good party game too!


by mrrara on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 09:54:39 AM EST

Give me a break (none / 0)

Look, NO democrat has garnered a majority of the American vote since 1976, and that was barely a majority.  The last time a Democrat won a majority in a landslide was 1964, thats right 44 years ago.

Even if Obama were to win by just 52-48, that would be the biggest Democratic win in decades.  

Look, there is a huge built in bias against any Democratic candidate by the American public.  I know several people that call themselves independents, but they are only independent because they might vote for the GOP, or they might not vote.  They just won't vote for the Democrat, any Democrat.

We all know what the real meaning of this post is, that if HRC were the nominee she would be up by 10, 20, maybe 110%.  The truth is that she would be in the same boat.  And maybe even worse because of the entusiasm gap.  This is not a slight on her saying that she would lower it on the Democratic side, but she would greatly increase it on the GOP side because of the number of people who would want to vote against her.

No matter how bad things are, I don't think you are ever going to see less than 43-45% of the American people vote for the GOP for President, at least not anytime soon.


by gavoter on Tue Jul 29, 2008 at 11:27:20 AM EST


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