But we need to remember the distinction between rational debate and trolling. The people who do nothing but tear Obama down with idiotic smears and complaints do not deserve my patience. I've tried, but they don't want a rational discussion. They just want to sow discord.

I've always wished the candidates would call for bringing back the Equal Rights Amendment, or at least put more focus on equal pay. The Ledbetter Act is a good start, and I was in the Senate chamber for the vote, but even it doesn't go far enough.

Oh, I know.  It is a radical concept.  But it seems like there has been no shortage of hand-holding and understanding and attempts to persuade and empathy and sympathy and forebearance for the people who still agitate against Obama.

It is quite understandable that in the immediate aftermath of a protracted and bitter primary battle that there should be some people who cannot let go, right away, that need to go through a grieving period, that need to get some last vitriol out of their system.

But JESUS CHRIST.

There comes a point when you have to realize that you're being had, that the people that you think just need a little more persuasion are actually just fucking with you.  They can't move on because they are addicted to it.  Trying to spoil your day is all they have left.  And people like that can't get their psychotherapy from us.  They are trolls.  They deserved the benefit of a doubt for a while.    A while.  

But there is no primary campaign anymore.  And there are few real Obama votes to be
gained or lost in the flame wars on MyDD, truth be told.  This is all just personal acting out and it shouldn't be coddled anymore than it has.  All you are doing is feeding trolls.  Stop feeding them, stop giving them their daily thrill, and they will either go away or get a grip.

It's time to move on: move on from the campaign season, move on from the pity parties, move on from the constant meta diaries.

Does anyone know whether Obama ever has clearly disavowed, repudiated (pick a verb) the sexism directed against HRC?

I know of no strong statement, which makes my support for him rather weak (no never McCain).  However, I may be poorly informed.

If anyone knows, please share links.

Thanks.

Clinton should disassociate herself from the PUMAs, defending her former supporters who are following her advice to work their hearts out for Obama.

she already has done that.  What else do you want her to do?  Personally visit them and knock on their doors and kick them out of polite social circles?

jeezz....

I think one of the problems with the off-site anti-Obama crowd is that most of them only come on here once in awhile. They sit on no25cents or alegre's basement and read the same anti-Obama smears over and over until they believe them. Then they come here and post that same crap.

We have no patience for it, since it has probably been debunked time and time again on this site. They don't realize that. They think it's all true. We pile on to no effect. They keep arguing until the diary drops off the rec list and then leave the site. A day or two later another one arrives with the same tired old crap diary and it starts all over again.

I think the reason Hillary Clinton doesn't disown PUMA is because a) they've already disowned her, and b) why draw attention to them?  She's made it clear that they don't speak for her.

Off-topic, my own theory is that they upended any chance she had to challenge the delegate tally at the credentials committee, assuming that was in the cards (who knows?).  She did not want a replay of the RBC protestors on a larger stage.  Imagine 1000 Harriet Christians with Hillary buttons - she'd never, ever live it down.

"I perfectly understand how many women feel that supporting Obama is equivalent to going back to an abusive husband."

Yeah, I get that sense, but I just can't wrap my brain around it. (disclaimer, being a white male, though, at least one old enough to have lived through the 60s feminist struggles.)

Red, I think, and I have said this a lot here, my observation is, this war is more generational then it is Sexist traditionalists vs Feminist.

My anecdotal story, since being male and white, my dog in this hunt gets to be not as invested in the war, comes from my girlfriend.

She works for a health non-profit, 90% staffed by women, probably 50% women of color, and quite a few gay folks as well.  

A group CLEARLY you would believe, and you would be right, are leaning hard hard left.

What I saw that was, the dividing line was NOT race or sex, it was age.

First, I only know the demographics and level of support of the Seattle office, but my girlfriend said it was mirrored in the Atlanta, SF, and Austin office,

It broke down like this.

Over 50, mostly Hillary, except the women of color went for Obama (but late, as I clarify below.)

Between 50-40, mostly Obama.

Under 40, 100% Obama.

And, the discussions were fascinating?

Virtually 100% of the under 40 women were for Obama, the interesting dynamic there was, the women of color over 50 in that group were first for Hillary, basically because they thought Obama had no shot.

They started to switch after Iowa, and become absolutely HARD CORE after The Big Dogs comment in South Carolina about Jesse.  Now, I know that is debatable, some of the Clinton supporters stand on the "he was just stating facts" but, from my view of these black women's reaction, they heard a dog-whistle that busted their ear-drums.

In the end, after the primaries, there is only ONE true PUMA/McCain-inite, a 59 year old white women, who literally is in the "after what the did to Hillary" mind set.

What was interesting was, to see the discussion of Feminism, of the level of sexism, and how it cost or didn't Senator Clinton to lose, and to hear the two generational groups go at it?

Probably mirrored a lot of what you are talking about, where the younger woman were a lot more "well, it's not like we are throwing ALL women overboard by not voting for Hillary" and the old feminist coming back with "you don't understand the struggle, what we had to go through" answered with "yeah, but what does THAT have to do with this election?"

The over 50 crowd saw the Clinton nomination as almost a culmination of the entire struggle they had went through as women, the under 40 crowd were like, no, its a choice between two candidates and we prefer Obama. They didn't dislike Senator Clinton, they just weren't buying this titantic struggle for women's rights as focused on if Senator Clinton got the nomination.

In the end, as I said, most of the Clinton supporters are in some spread of spectrum, some begrudingly supporting Obama, some more enthusiastic.

And, one single "voting for McCain because of the sexism of the primary" at least, in the Seattle office.