Why I STILL Have No Thrill for the Drill

Laguna 9

(Cross posted at Clintonistas for Obama)

You know, I love Jerome Armstrong. I really do. When so many of us Hillary Clinton Democrats were being bashed around everywhere else, he provided us with a warm & welcoming home here at MyDD. I'll always appreicate him for that. Oh yeah, and he's wicked smart as well!

But you know what, Barack Obama is our Democratic nominee. I've made peace with that. Oh yes, and I really like his energy & environment plan. And while I agree with Jerome on many other matters, I just have to disagree with him on this.

Sbsw10

Sbrb2

Sorry, but I simply don't see the logic of agreeing to the Bush-Cheney energy "plan" of attempting to solve all our problems by drilling for more oil! It simply makes no sense. It's a fleeting political fad that will soon fade, and worse yet it will do NOTHING to solve our energy crisis.

Believe me, lifting the offshore drilling ban will NOT lower gas prices. No, it really won't.  Oh yes, and more offshore drilling would destroy our coastline. Do we really want to lose our beaches and our coastal wildlife forever to do nothing about the energy crisis? And no matter how much the Rethuglicans tell us how "stupid" we are to be "Dr. No", we don't have to cave into them... We already have the facts on our side!

So what can we actually do to relieve the pain at the pump in the near term while also focusing on real energy solutions for the long term? Well, we can simply encourage the oil comapnies to drill on those 68 million acres of federal land where they already have leases! There, problem solved!

And at the same time, we can begin investing in our energy future. Invest in better conservation measures. Invest in clean, renewable energy. This is our energy future. T. Boone Pickens, the Center for American Progress, and many more real experts now agree that our future rests not with the same ol' oil, but with new ideas.

Let's face the facts. We're running out of oil. We're in the midst of a dangerous climate crisis. We need real solutions, not political gimmicks.

And btw, let's all support those who are calling for real solutions... Just an idea! ;-)

Hb4oj26

Display:


Tips? Flames? Suggestions? (2.00 / 9)

You know what to do... ;-)


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 06:30:38 PM EST

Re: Tips? Flames? Suggestions? (2.00 / 3)

Its not a matter of  agreeing with offshore  oil drilling, of course, its a terrible idea.

The point is, they have the votes in the Senate, probalby already about 10 senators are signed on, Webb is taking a point position and including drilling.

Lets not put our heads in the sand, and instead use this issue to further a renewable energy plan.


by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 06:32:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

With all due respect... (2.00 / 6)

I just don't see how this is a smart idea, even if it "makes political sense". Drilling does nothing to solve our energy problems, and it absolutely makes no environmental sense. If Nancy Pelosi has ANY backbone left in her, she should do the right thing and stand with the Dems in the Natural Resources Committee in working on better and more effective ways to solve our energy crisis.


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 06:45:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: With all due respect... (2.00 / 2)

Also with all due respect, but we've had far less "political sense" than we need. I would even say we've had a great dearth of it in Congress. We need to get our party back in line and get a compromise done among all Democrats before some Democrats get one done with Republicans.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:37:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? Flames? Suggestions? (2.00 / 2)

And the House?  What of the House?  And legal action by costal Gov.s?  

There still a long way to go on this, and with the proper legislative manuvering, we can hold off until after the election.


by NewOaklandDem on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:03:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Tips? Flames? Suggestions? (none / 0)

They have the votes in the committee as well, and on the floor, without question.


by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:11:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What you miss (2.00 / 2)

is that to the GOP drilling is THE plan.  That is what they are selling as the solution.

You are conceding the debate on energy if you concede on offshore drilling.  


by fladem on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:23:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Windfall profits tax idea (2.00 / 9)

Obama should call these pubs and McCain on their bluff.  Obama should announce that in the interest of "bipartisanship" and "compromise" that he'll support lifting the moratorium if the pubs agree to hit the oil companies with a windfall profits tax.  He can argue that the tax will be used to fund alternative sources of energy.

This tax will essentially serve as a poison pill because we all know McConnell will never permit it.  Obama can make these guys look like idiots by forcing him McConnell to filibuster a bill that calls for what exactly they claim to be the solution to our high gas prices just because it taxes oil companies that are laughing their way to the bank.  I bet you McCain would just duck the vote if this happened.

What do you think?


by Blazers Edge on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 06:36:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Windfall profits tax idea (2.00 / 2)

Nice, a poision pill, and, right, they either show they are just shills for the oil companies, or have to justify obscene oil company profits.

Send it to the Obama camp via E-mail, good idea.


"Either you're the butcher Or the lamb but even so, Everybody pays as they go-Jakob Dylan"
by WashStateBlue on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 06:39:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not a bad idea... (none / 0)

I'm game. ;-)


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 06:46:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Windfall profits tax idea (2.00 / 2)

They pull this trick on us all the time. I agree, it's time to turn the tables. Then we can run campaign ads in down-ticket races claiming those who voted against it were more interested in protecting the oil companies than they were in solving the energy crisis.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:33:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Brilliant idea! n/t (2.00 / 1)


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 09:29:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Amen (2.00 / 1)

Those Democrats who are conceeding on the offshore drilling issue are handing the GOP the narrative on the issue that will decide this election.

If you look at polling, Gas prices is now the NUMBER 1 issue by far with voters.  Example, SUSA polled central Ohio (a key battleground where Ohio is often decided_ and found that 50% said gas prices were the number 1 issue, well ahead of jobs (26%) and health care (12%)

To agree to drill is to buy into the lie that there is enough oil in ANWAR and offshore to make a material difference in the price of oil.  It is conceed the core GOP argument:

That the energy crisis is the fault of government and the environmentalists.  


by fladem on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:21:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I know, I know... (none / 0)

Our Dem leaders have been repeating this idiotic mistake for FAR TOO LONG! They cave & concede to the GOP thinking they'll then avoid GOP attacks (like being "weak on terror" or "tax & spend" or "enviro-nazis")... Only to then be attacked as "FLIP-FLOPPERS"! (See "FISA capitulation, 2008".) So if the Dems flip-flop AGAIN and cave on drilling, we'll both lose the argument on investing in conservation & renewable energy AND be seen once again as "craven flip-floppers who will do anything to win".

So really, shouldn't we just stick to our guns and stand for something for once?


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:30:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I honestly believe (none / 0)

that energy will decide the election.

To Obama's credit, he is sticking to his guns.

The party, meanwhile, is another story.


by fladem on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 12:02:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I STILL Have No Thrill for the Drill (2.00 / 2)

Rec'd.  I don't want ot have to explain to my kids why the coastline looks like crap, all smogged and sluged up, for no reason.  I'm gonning to put my faith in that Pelosi and Feinstien, being from CA, will block this.

In Fact, if Feinstein were to put a stop to this drilling BS, I'll take bakc all of the mean things I've said about her.  


by NewOaklandDem on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:01:38 PM EST

Me, too... (2.00 / 1)

If DiFi actually stops rolling over for Bush & Cheney and starts fighting like hell to save our coastline, I might start tolerating her again. Same goes for Nancy Pelosi. Maybe Barbara Boxer can share some of her strong backbone with them? ;-)


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:06:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I STILL Have No Thrill for the Drill (2.00 / 3)

I don't trust Feinstein on anything?

How can a state have one amazing Senator (Boxer) and one of the worst?

Oh, wait...Joe Lieberman and Chris Dodd.

Never mind.


"Either you're the butcher Or the lamb but even so, Everybody pays as they go-Jakob Dylan"
by WashStateBlue on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:07:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I STILL Have No Thrill for the Drill (2.00 / 2)

We are a state the rewards Dem pols who pay thier dues.  Also, when she first ran, her opponent was, shall we say, completely unpalatable.

You know how she became mayor of SF right?  As a result sof the Moscone/Milk murders.


by NewOaklandDem on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:10:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I STILL Have No Thrill for the Drill (2.00 / 2)

Thanks for the reminder. Yes, I remember "the twinkie defense" very well....


"Either you're the butcher Or the lamb but even so, Everybody pays as they go-Jakob Dylan"
by WashStateBlue on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:15:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How VERY true... (none / 0)

We are a state the rewards Dem pols who pay thier [sic] dues.

Haha. I mean, how else can one explain how GRAY DAVIS became Governor??!! OK, so it was also a whacked out primary in 1998 with Al Checchi (??) and Jane Harman ripping each other's heads off. But whatever, back to DiFi.

This really is her LAST chance with me. If she doesn't block offshore drilling, she MUST be primaried in 2012. I've just about had it with her.


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:28:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How VERY true... (2.00 / 1)

I fear for the 2010 Democratic Guv Primary.  I really do.

As for DiFi, she may not even run in 2012, what with all that Defense Contract money to retire on.


by NewOaklandDem on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:31:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My plan. (2.00 / 1)

And I may be the only one in the left blogosphere that feels this way...

Go nuclear.  Much of Europe has.  Yes, it IS dirty, there is a lot of waste, you do have to worry about it for thousands of years, what if they have a meltdown, terrorist attack, etc., I know, I know, I know.  But at least it doesn't increase greenhouse gas emissions.  And it could help keep the cost of electricity low enough to keep electric cars viable as a replacement for internal combustion engines.  And it can be scaled up.  Solar and wind are great, the technology is improving, and we should pursue them, but they both consume land, and I sincerely doubt we can provide for the whole 21st century on mostly solar and wind.  The history of human civilization suggests that the human race's per capita energy consumption (not just the US's) is going to keep increasing forever.

I think we have some inertia on the left on this issue.  The green concerns of the 70s and 80s haven't yet caught up to the green concerns of the 2000s.  I love the solar and windmill idea, but they are not scalable.


by Dumbo on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:16:19 PM EST

Re: My plan. (2.00 / 2)

Drilling vs. Nukes.  Tough call.


by NewOaklandDem on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:18:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry, Dumbo... (2.00 / 1)

I'm really sorry, but I simply can't. While I appreciate you coming in here to offer a constructive solution, I just can't agree to nuclear. It's too costly and too dangerous.

http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2 008/07/nuclear_energy.html

Don't believe me? Believe her...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKWqlHeYJ dw

It's far too dangerous to our health and our planet. It sucks up too much of our tax dollars, only to suck up more power than it generates. It really doesn't provide much bang for the buck.


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:33:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My plan. (2.00 / 2)

Solar systems have an almost unlimited potential when you consider concentrating solar power. Cities like Las Vegas could get almost all of their power from csp systems. We could get a far better return on investment into this technology than we could in nuclear plants, which take years to come online.

The reason the big boys don't back alternative energy isn't because it is impractical. They don't like it because the entry level is lower, which results in more competition for them.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:45:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My plan. (2.00 / 1)

And with global warnings on the rise, we will probably see more sun, no?


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:41:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My plan. (2.00 / 1)

Not necessarily. We might see more cloud cover.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 09:13:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: My plan. (2.00 / 1)

i was at a conference a few months ago - and i heard that the US consumes 25% of the worlds oil!  25%!

and i dont know enough about nuclear (although my province is using it more and more) - but the world needs to find alternative forms of energy.  down with the oil cartel!  down with emissions!


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 09:39:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nuclear is not a substitute for oil (2.00 / 3)

We use very little oil to generate electricity.

Oil is used to power cars: which I don't think you can run on nuclear energy....


by fladem on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:24:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The price of electricity is going to (none / 0)

provide a natural cap to the price of oil.  If it is substantially cheaper to run a car on electricity (technological hurdles out of the way, first, like better batteries), then cars will run on electricity rather than gas.  And if you aren't convinced by electric cars, then think about electric everything-else that now runs on non-renewable fuels.

I am very optimistic about wind and solar.  I'm trying to think of creative ways to get my own house off the grid.  But I fear wind and solar have had too much buzz, for too long.  They are a better solution than sending our money to the Middle East and melting the Poles, but the more you study it, the more it seems like a stop gap solution with its own problems.  

T. Boone Pickens wants to turn the American prairies into the next Saudi Arabia, dotting the landscape with windmills.  Now, I think that's a far sight better than what we do now, but the scale of such an undertaking (if it is to be successful) would be damaging to the environment in its own way.


by Dumbo on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:29:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I STILL Have No Thrill for the Drill (2.00 / 2)

damn! you got two diaries on the rec list? atdleft, you're such a rockstar-


by alyssa chaos on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 07:51:57 PM EST

Re: Why I STILL Have No Thrill for the Drill (2.00 / 2)

I could go for a really nice rig or two 200 feet off  Palm Beach Florida centered on an east west line through the center of Rush Limbaugh's place. And a nice smelly refinery next to the Bush Presidential Library in Crawford, and put a nukular par plant there right there too.


by QTG on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:14:17 PM EST

Ed Markey and Sen. Hutchinson debated this (none / 0)

issue about two weeks ago on ABC This Week. It was interesting in providing a preview as to how the issue may well be framed.

For openers, Kay Bailey Hutchinson smiled the entire time in her best (and somewhat sickening) June Cleaver imitation. Markey seemed to be angry and snarling...but more importantly, Stephanopoulous tried to close the discussion by suggesting that a compromise--combining more production/drilling with increased conservation, and development of alternative sources--was the only way out.

Markey indicated that he was unwilling to compromise...no to nuclear, no to coal, even no to natural gas....Hutchinson followed by saying, "well of course, we have to compromise". Regardless of the merits, the Democrats are going to look unreasonable if they say no to any increased production of fossil fuels. And I think they will lose the argument. The Senate's "Gang of 10" as well as Boone Pickens are both moving in the direction of compromise; everyone will have to give up something.


by BJJ Fighter on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 08:56:35 PM EST

Re: Ed Markey and Sen. Hutchinson debated this (none / 0)

Good comment.


by Jerome Armstrong on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:13:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

btw, Markey did yeoman's work questioning (none / 0)

Sam Bodman in hearings on the Hill a few weeks back. I hadn't laughed in months, but when I saw this I laughed until I cried. Bodman was so clueless, apparently knows very little about energy exploration, and just sat there getting beaten senseless. He finally even admitted that the administration keeps him out of the loop on most things.

Check it out on You Tube (three part video)....sad day when you watch your government officials for amusement.


by BJJ Fighter on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 11:55:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ed Markey and Sen. Hutchinson debated this (none / 0)

And this is the kind of thing Obama SHOULD be compromising on. It is unfortunate that he might leave the country while his position on such an important issue still isn't in sync with his fellow Democrats. Here's hoping that he's actually talking to the DNC in Chicago and working to get the Democrats to work together on a plan that keeps them from splintering.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:23:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, Pickens gets it... (2.00 / 1)

And at least his "compromise" makes sense. Natural gas can provide a fairly easy "transitional fuel" while we wean ourselves off  oil and start producing more renewable energy. I can agree to that.

But offshore oil drilling? Sorry to borrow a term from the "PUMAs", but I JUST SAY NO DEAL TO THAT! More offshore drilling will do NOTHING to help us... Especially not when the oil companies are ALREADY sitting on 68 million acres of federal drilling lease agreements! They should use those first and agree to better conservation standards. I won't f**k with my coastline to help them make another extra buck.


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:38:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I STILL Have No Thrill for the Drill (2.00 / 2)

Your awesome atdleft...Many thanks for the diary and your well=reasoned opinions!


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 10:28:10 PM EST

Thanks, hootie! (2.00 / 1)

I LOVE talking about energy & environmental policy, so I guess we should all thank Jerome for firing the first shot and getting us all riled up so we can point out why we don't need to cave into Bush & the GOP on offshore drilling! :-)


No way, no how, no McCain! :-)
by atdleft on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 11:22:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I STILL Have No Thrill for the Drill (none / 0)

The estimated undiscovered conventionally recoverable oil in the Federal Offshore area is 75 billion barrels.

Of that 21% is estimated to be within the moratorium area, or 15.75 billion barrels.

The estimated consumption of oil in the United States alone is 20.687 million barrels.

By that math, that buys us another 2 years of oil and leaves our children with nothing. We could do that. Or we could get real.

Nappy time with Bush with his bubble economy is over and people are awake, but just ignorant of the facts.


by dead goat on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 01:36:07 AM EST

Re: Why I STILL Have No Thrill for the Drill (none / 0)

the consumption stat is per day


by dead goat on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 01:39:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I STILL Have No Thrill for the Drill (none / 0)

the consumption stat is per day


by dead goat on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 01:40:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why I STILL Have No Thrill for the Drill (none / 0)

Thanks adleft, after the last oil tanker crash into our Golden Gate Bridge, no, no, hell no to offshore drilling. Between the oil spill and these fires, our ecosystem is trashed, shore birds are MIA, estuaries are polluted. Forget it, Jerome, Jim Webb, and everyone else caving in to this. How'd you like drilling by your greatest natural asset in your state? Think of the ocean, man, we can't even keep it clean from transporting the filthy stuff!


by VCubed on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 08:50:55 AM EST

We're saying,"let other countries drill" (none / 0)

Perhaps this is a national version of "not in my back yard", but it seems like we're saying that other countries should do dirty work like drilling, not the USA. Brazil's Petrobras has made huge finds off their shores, China Petroleum will soon be drilling just 60 miles off Florida's coast, and Canada--through oil sands extractions--now supplies 17% of our oil imports.

Senator Obama seems to have some kind of grudge against Canada, vowing in March to go after Canada "with a hammer" if they didn't renegotiate NAFTA according to his diktat. On the energy front, he last month referred to the oil sands extractions in Alberta as "dirty", and made other claims suggesting that Canada doesn't care about the environment. Finance Minister Iris Evans promptly told the Calgary Herald that she "wouldn't rule out" cutting Canada's oil production for the US if the abuse from Obama doesn't stop.

Bottom line, we have to increase production of both oil and natural gas as an intermediate step (4-8 yrs.) to increase supply and lower prices. It's worth noting that within a week of his innaugural in 1981, President Reagan removed domestic controls on oil production. Energy prices began tumbling immediately, from $34/barrel in 1981, to just $11/barrel in 1986.

I share the environmental concerns of others who have posted comments (I worked for eight years at the National Wildlife Federation), but it's worth noting that the technologies utilized by Oil Services companies like Baker Hughes and Schlumberger have advanced light years over where they were when many of these environmental laws were first passed. Even when Katrina ravaged the Gulf in 2005, not a single oil spill occurred.


by BJJ Fighter on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 12:28:16 PM EST


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