Obama Donors Whine About Party Unity

Gestures matter. It's about the gesture.

Obama needs to raise a lot of money. He's tapped all of his donors and would like to tap into Clinton's.

Obama was asked to send one email to his wide network of donors, and make a request that each supporter consider donating to Hillary Clinton to help retire her debt. It's tradition. It's a gesture of respect. It's also best done immediately after she endorses him, when the excitement is still high. She was a worthy adversary and created a lot of excitement around the Democrats this year.

The Obama campaign sent no such email. They reasoned, they told reporters, they could not afford to. They could send an email with her picture in it, or mention that she endorsed him. But ask people to retire her debt? Too risky.

You see, because the Obama campaign raised so much money, they could not afford to make a request of donors to retire Hillary's debt for fear said donors would take them up on it.

The Obama campaign, having raised so much money, decided they could not afford to opt into the same public financing system that John McCain did. The same system Obama had promised to opt into. The same system that was designed to keep fatcat donors from holding too much influence over presidential politics. The same imperfect, yet pretty effective (in Russ Feingold's words) system that was designed to level the playing field, to ensure that no one vote weighed more than another. But said system would LIMIT the Obama campaign to spending only what the McCain campaign was limited to spending.

The Obama campaign could not afford spending limits. It could not afford gestures.

The Obama campaign, having just decided to opt out of public financing because they believed they could raise a LOT MORE money  in a privatized General Election fundraising system just could not afford to divert any attention, any potential funds, to retire Hillary's debt.

This is no secret. Obama's donors are being quite vocal about this:

Mark Gilbert, a financier and Obama supporter who has been raising money in Florida and Utah, agreed that the request to help Clinton has been a challenge.

"What's a good way to put this? There's a feeling that the money she spent at the end may not have needed to have been spent," he said. "You want to help because it's important to Senator Obama. The flip side is, you don't want to take money away from what's needed in November, which is the more important goal."

Uh, Mr. Gilbert? Gestures matter. Gestures matter to potential donors like Richard Shiffrin:

Clinton supporters who have joined Obama's effort said his work to help retire Clinton's debt is an important olive branch and will more than offset any burden it places on Obama's fundraising team.

Richard L. Shiffrin, a Philadelphia lawyer who backed Clinton but has now committed to helping Obama, said he has been closely monitoring the debt-retirement effort.

"They have made a bunch of promises, which I have no reason to believe they won't fulfill, but you want to see results," he said.

The gesture Clinton's supporters are looking for will more than offset any burden it places on Obama's fundraising team.

You want money, Obama campaign? Hillary's donors would like to see some gestures. SINCERE, heartfelt gestures.

Be a grownup and stop whining about party unity, Mark Gilbert. And Barack Obama - forgetting to mention Hillary's debt at that fundraiser was cutting it close. Her donors were watching you - do you have the capacity to make a sincere gesture on her behalf? Obama? You cannot afford not to.



Display:


Re: Obama Donors (2.00 / 6)

I say this as someone who donated to Senator Clinton's campaign the day after she conceded, so remember that.

It ain't my job to pay off her debts that she racked up after it was obvious she would lose.  She ran a fiscally-insane campaign.  I don't know of another example in modern history that even comes close to that.

I did what I did because I wanted to do my small part to heal the party.  I did NOT do it out of a sense of obligation.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:38:22 PM EST

Donate with dignity, or don't donate at all. (2.00 / 3)

Whining negates the gesture.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:42:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Donate with dignity, or don't donate at all. (2.00 / 5)

Have you donated to the Obama campaign?


by MeganLocke on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:08:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Donate with dignity, or don't donate at all. (2.00 / 1)

Well?  I mean if you're complaining about Obama donors not putting money into a defunct campaign.  And even "whining".

Are you serious or not?


by MeganLocke on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:38:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Donors (2.00 / 4)

No need to respond seriously to this diary, it's a silly, silly thing. Barack made quite public his wish for people to help, even donating himsown and Michelle's money. But hey, let's take a donor of his (who he has no control over) who states his personal opinion, and paint a broad brush to show us your concern about Barry himself...I see the concern (and I try to use that term rarely).


by Dog Chains on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:43:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He and Michelle don't cut it (2.00 / 1)

That was a weak gesture. Hillary's donors were waiting to see if he would ask his precious supporters to support Hillary. If she had been the nominee, there is no way he would have endorsed her as quickly as she did him. No way.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:46:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He and Michelle don't cut it (2.00 / 1)

Speculation aside, since you can't prove or even come close to proving your hypothetical, what would you have him do, while running for president and serving as a Senator (which occasionally gets shrt end i agree) while raising 2 daughters, spend more time fundraising for her than for himself? Now that would be silly. He came out, asked his supporters to do what they could, did what he could himself, so where's the issue, is he still not grovelling to her enough for your liking?


by Dog Chains on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:48:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He is black (1.41 / 12)

he must bow and scrape before the hardworking white people.


by JJE on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:00:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

TR for race baiting. (none / 0)

Enough.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:02:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: TR for race baiting. (2.00 / 1)

Are you saying Hillary was race-baiting when she made the 'hard-working white people comment'?


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:23:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Had she said working class, she would have (none / 0)

been called a racist. Because working class blacks were voting for Obama.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:33:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Had she said working class, she would have (2.00 / 2)

And yet when someone quotes Hillary you call them racist?


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:38:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bow and scrape is a quote? Nice try. (2.00 / 1)

Go troll somewhere else.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:53:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bow and scrape is a quote? Nice try. (none / 0)

My sentiments exactly. You used to at least be sane.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:20:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's bizarro world (1.33 / 3)

People who call out racism are race-baiting, but Larry Johnson says "nigga" and it's bold truth-telling.


by JJE on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:17:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's bizarro world (none / 0)

Does anyone take that guy serious anymore after this "whitey tape" incident?

He is the laughing stock of the blog world


by hocuspocus on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:22:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's bizarro world (2.00 / 1)

Quite a few of the Obama haters on this site frequent his site. This diarist is one of them. Here's a comment s/he made on that site.

I ran into a DNC canvasser downtown yesterday, she and a few cohorts were fanning out at lunchtime asking for donations. I told her they screwed up the primaries and she said a lot of people are disappointed this year. She asked me how they screwed up - so I said Dean, Pelosi allowed uncertainty to fester, were supposed to remain neutral, etc.

She said yep, many are saying this. "But you're still voting Democrat, right? You're going to vote for Obama right?" I said no Obama is a joke.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:32:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

TR for off-topic trolling (none / 0)

blog clogging another diary by mentioning another blog, another topic, another person.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 03:49:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you know (none / 0)

if you're going to give a TR for "blog clogging", you look like kind of a dumbass when you clog more for explaining your TR.

I'll forgive you.  I'm sure it's been a rough week for you with Jesse Helms dying and all.


by JJE on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 04:25:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That's funny!!! (1.50 / 2)


overthrow the government~participate
by missliberties on Sat Jul 12, 2008 at 12:06:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He is black (none / 0)

What does his race have to do with this issue? Your response is old and worn out. It was old 10 years ago. You need to move beyond race like Obama and Rev Wright.

If you bring up the fact than Obama is black it means you have no legitimate argument.


by mmorang on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:58:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it has a lot to do (none / 0)

with the continuing antipathy of catfish2 and the PUMA crowd.  Continuous demands for gestures of respect and obeisance.  Ever heard the term "uppity"?


by JJE on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:09:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: it has a lot to do (none / 0)

Yes, again it's old. YOU are bringing race into the discussion needlessly when you maintain that every "demand" of Obama or comment has to do with the fact that he's black. Get over it.

Obama is going to get hammered in the press fairly and unfairly like every other politician. The term "uptity" was relevant 50 years ago. Playing the race card over and over has already worn thin.


by mmorang on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 05:48:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He and Michelle don't cut it (2.00 / 3)

lol

First, that "weak" gesture was the maximum legally allowed and a lot more than most people can afford to give.

Second, regarding endorsements, I have a feeling that Obama would have, at least, had the decency to concede after losing.  Her failure to do so probably hurt her debt being paid more than any other thing in this campaign.  As for the timing of the endorsement...well, that's just 100% guess work.  


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:50:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He and Michelle don't cut it (2.00 / 1)

She did concede after losing.

Its that she didn't concede before losing that has you upset.


by dtaylor2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:55:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Donors (2.00 / 6)

As if "No Quarter" catfish really cares about Unity anyway.


by NewOaklandDem on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:44:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Donors (2.00 / 2)

After months of shameless trolling, slants and distortions, I'm not sure there's anything they do care about at this point. Besides their battered little egos, that is.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:33:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Donors (2.00 / 3)

Exactly.  A diary from a PUMA on unity.  That's rich.


Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.
by fogiv on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:39:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Donors Whine About Party Unity (2.00 / 3)

Can you please put up a link that supports this statement -

The Obama campaign sent no such email. They reasoned, they told reporters, they could not afford to


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:41:18 PM EST

Looking for it, in my file (none / 0)

Yes I am searching for the link.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:42:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Looking for it, in my file (none / 0)

To be fair he asked his rich donors to give but reasoned his smaller donors couldn't afford to give to Hillary.


by dtaylor2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:57:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They can make their own decisions (none / 0)

he didn't make the gesture.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:58:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They can make their own decisions (none / 0)

He did in private to a small group of rich donors.

But then Hillary told Bill to give him the max and he did so maybe we are all even...


by dtaylor2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:08:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

actually... (2.00 / 3)

i've gotten three phone calls from obama financiers asking me to contribute to pay off hillary's debt.  one of them was clearly working off of hillary's own notes, given what they said.

you'll note that catfish can't support his diary with actual facts.  he has a conclusion that he undoubtedly started with years ago...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:18:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Proof? Link? (none / 0)

We haven't heard about these phone calls from anybody else, no news reports. How do we know you're telling the truth?


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:27:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Who's "we"? (2.00 / 1)

How shocking, that PUMA isn't being kept appraised of his every move.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:36:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

of course not... (none / 0)

i've never seen any news reports on fund raisers calling their peeps and asking them to support a candidate.  oh, wait.  you're just upset.  you weren't really interested.

have you maxed out yet?  i'm sure you can.  let us know when you have.  hillary needs your help.

for the rest of us, there's an election to win.  there is absolutely no reason to even think about paying off her debt until after the election.  well, for democrats.  obviously, there are the spoilers (like you) who will do everything they can to swift boat barack's election...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:34:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

find that link? (2.00 / 4)

otherwise, change your story.  quite frankly, i think you made it up or seriously misunderstood something you saw.  regardless, you have demonstrated precisely why hillary shouldn't have been our nominee.  she's no leader.  she was, at most, a symbol.  but her "supporters" won't follow her, as you have amply demonstrated...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:00:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The story stands (none / 0)

Here's the quote, Obama decided he could not afford to ask them:
Obama told reporters Wednesday he wouldn't send an e-mail asking his small-dollar contributors to donate to Clinton because "their budgets are tighter" and they probably couldn't make much of a dent.

by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:22:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Provide the link, please. And stop the distortions (none / 0)

Your "quote" just validated dtaylor's statement - he didn't want his small donors on tight budgets to donate to a multimillionaire. Shocking, eh.

He didn't say he "couldn't afford" to ask them. That was your lie. No shock, that.


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:41:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

catfish is a hypocrite... (none / 0)

express no surprise that he's not familiar with what is true (or real)...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:35:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And leaking this to papers is not a good gesture (none / 0)

You'd think Obama would ask that it stop. He hasn't.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:41:32 PM EST

Re: Obama Donors Whine About Party Unity (none / 0)

I say just put her on the ticket. It would completely resolve this problem. No one would bother with the debt because Clinton and Obama's people would be funding them both to the white house with insane money.


by Lakrosse on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:41:45 PM EST

$30,000 per plate fundraisers woohoo! (none / 0)

Welcome back to fatcats rule the presidential campaign. Awesome.

I was able to attend a $250 per plate fundraiser during the primaries. $250 still falls below the $2400 per person limit.

I don't understand how it's back to $30 grand per plate. Even if he opts out of public financing, are we not still limited to $2400 per person?


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:44:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: $30,000 per plate fundraisers woohoo! (2.00 / 1)

It's probably $2300 to the campaign (maybe even $4600, since he's still allowed to raise primary cash) and the much larger (I think in the $20,000s) max donation to the DNC.

And you know what?  If people are willing to donate $30,000 to get Barack Obama elected president and Democrats elected all the way down the ticket, I'd gladly give them a chicken dinner and a photo-op for it.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:47:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: $30,000 per plate fundraisers woohoo! (2.00 / 1)

Correct.  Most of the money went to the DNC.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:51:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So the free market decides presidents again (none / 0)

awesome.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:58:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i take it you don't understand charity or giving,, (2.00 / 1)

that explains a lot...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:05:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So the free market decides presidents again (2.00 / 3)

It always did, and it was going to again this year regardless of whether or not Obama opted in to public financing.

Republican 527s like Hannity's group were going to use unregulated huge-dollar donations to lie about Barack Obama; the fact that he's opted out of public financing and that he's raising money from big-dollar donors means he'll have the resources to fight them.

I much prefer that to taking a "principled" stand for the broken public finance system and losing as a result.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:08:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Russ Feingold disagrees (1.00 / 1)

Fatcats will always find a way to influence campaigns. But the laws should at least make it more difficult.

Public financing put a cap on how much each candidate could spend. Obama promised to opt into that system. Hillary did not. Obama broke his promise once Hillary suspended his campaign. Classy.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:12:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Russ Feingold disagrees (2.00 / 2)

Obama didn't promise to opt into that system, and you know it.  What he promised to do was to try to work out a deal on public financing with the Republican nominee - and he did try, only to find that John McCain had absolutely no interest in working to rein in the Republican 527s.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:21:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why were so many shocked (none / 0)

when he opted out?


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:28:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why were so many shocked (2.00 / 2)

Because they didn't understand his position.  In case you hadn't noticed, nuance isn't exactly the American media's strong suit... and the other side is only too happy to exploit that.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:38:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe he was unclear on purpose (none / 0)

misleading on purpose. No, not Saint Barack.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:54:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Or maybe you're just (none / 0)

slow on the uptake and can't understand.  Seems more likely.


by JJE on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:06:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Me, the public, the press, the netroots, and the (none / 0)

left.

It's not St. Obama's fault. Never!


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 04:05:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: $30,000 per plate fundraisers woohoo! (none / 0)

If the person was a bundler he/she could do it.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:49:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: $30,000 per plate fundraisers woohoo! (2.00 / 1)

This was a double fund raiser. The FEC limit went to the Obama campaign and the rest goes to the Victory Fund which helps the DNC and down ticket Dems.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:56:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But the Obama camp, DNC merged (none / 0)

can you explain that part? I think it's a financial thing.

Thanks for the explanation.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:57:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But the Obama camp, DNC merged (2.00 / 4)

OK there is the fund for the GE campaign the limit is individual $2,300 and $4,6OO for couples.

The there is the Obama Victory Fund which goes to the DNC. Now the DNC can use this money to help Obama by running ads etc that support the candidate, The Convention funding and/or down ticket Dems. The limit for donations to this fund are much higher.

This may help -
http://www.fec.gov/pages/brochures/contr iblimits.shtml


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:07:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But the Obama camp, DNC merged (2.00 / 2)

Also the only thing that merged were operations not finances.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:11:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: But the Obama camp, DNC merged (2.00 / 2)

no google on your computer?  too lazy?  or just looking to do anything you can to damage the democratic party and its candidates?

http://thepage.time.com/release-on-democ ratic-fundraising-agreement/

http://thepage.time.com/more-on-the-demo cratic-white-house-victory-fund/

truly, truly, you shouldn't open up your mouth when you have no idea what you are talking about...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:14:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you aren't even maxed out yet??? (2.00 / 2)

look, jerk, if you can't even follow your own advice, you're nothing but a hypocrite.  let us know when you've contributed $2,300 to hillary.  only then will you have credibility to speak to this...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:02:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Past tense, reading comprehension is your friend (none / 0)

You understood the comment. You're just trying to be cute. No worries.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:09:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i read correctly, and you don't deny it... (2.00 / 1)

hypocrite...

this site exists for the purpose of electing democrats.  why, exactly, are you here?


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:17:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Show me the one who stands for democratic (none / 0)

principles. I'm still looking for him/her.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:23:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why (none / 0)

Did someone put out a contract on him/her?


It is not because I cannot explain that you won't understand. It is because you won't understand that I cannot explain. - Elie Wiesel
by Sumo Vita on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:52:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

so why are you here? (none / 0)

besides to swift boat our nominee?


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:35:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Donors Whine About Party Unity (2.00 / 1)

I am a democrat and will vote so in the fall but until is see more than just talk from the BO campaign about unity i cant justify one dime for his race.  I will send those monies to other democrat candidates.

What i have seen so far is HRC supporters are expected gto give to BO but his supporters seem to be saying screw you to HRC supporters.  No real surprise i guess.  That is their general tude.

david


by giusd on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:45:17 PM EST

Re: Obama Donors (2.00 / 4)

You shouldn't donate if you don't feel comfortable doing so.  I completely respect your position.

Will I give again to the Clinton campaign?  Probably not.  My new Trek bike really set me back.

Will I give again to Obama?  I'll be financially healthier after the convention, so it's more likely.  I'm basically broke through late August.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:49:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mojo for trek bike (none / 0)

Please diary about the new bike (and include a photo if you can.)

Mine is a hybrid of many different bikes. Still serves me well.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:10:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Which reminds me (2.00 / 2)

Did Dalton Hatfield ever get his bike/video game money back after Clinton lost the primary?  I hope so.  


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:28:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That kid had pride (none / 0)

and his parents allowed him to do that. Sometimes giving something you cherish is more rewarding than the thing itself.

In a way it's a metaphor for this whole diary.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:30:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'd like an answer, though. (none / 0)

Did Clinton give the money back?  If she put it in her general election fund, then she'd have to.  If she put it in her primary fund, she wouldn't.

Dalton deserves the money back, regardless of his pride or intentions.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:48:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You need things spelled out. NO. (none / 0)

That would have insulted the kid. I certainly hope they didn't reject his gift.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:55:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's not a rejection of a gift (none / 0)

It would be returning the donation.  I'm not sure if I'm being clear, here: Clinton has to return all the money collected for the general election if she doesn't become the nominee.  The magnitude of Dalton's gift was such that Clinton would have only really earned it if she had become said nominee.  She could return it to nobody's shame or rejection if she classified it as a GE offering.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:30:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It would humiliate the kid to reject it (none / 0)

it was a gift if he went through all of that. The parents allowed him to do it and will no doubt get him more video games. Give it up! Is this all you have?


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 03:51:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Donors Whine About Party Unity (2.00 / 3)

He worked on his big-dollar donors.  I think there's a point there.

My thought is that, personally, my money's real tight.  I haven't yet donated the max to the Obama campaign.  When I make another donation, it will be to the person who's in the race, where that money can be used to win back the White House, rather than to the person who's out of it where that money is going to be used to pay back her debts.

Know what the other problem is for me donating to Sen. Clinton?  Mark Penn.  I'd be much more in favor of helping her retire her other debts - particularly to small vendors - if I didn't know that a pretty sizable chunk of my money was going to that union-busting anti-progressive hack.  Why aren't Sen. Clinton's donors also leaning on Mr. Penn to write off her debt to him, since it was largely his utter cluelessness and mismanagement that led to her not winning?


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:45:17 PM EST

You have no obligation if money's tight (none / 0)

And you should be thankful that Mark Penn's strategery helped Hillary lose the primary.

Yes it would be nice to see a breakdown in what goes to him.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:47:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You have no obligation if money's tight (2.00 / 4)

Believe me, I am thankful.  When she didn't fire Mark Penn after February, I had a pretty strong inclination that Obama had won - because Penn was a complete failure from beginning to end.

However, that doesn't change the fact that Mark Penn is in no way a progressive.  He's busted unions and done work for the mercenaries.  As a progressive, I bristle at the thought that any of my money could go to him... and that (along with the aforementioned reasons) is a major factor in my not donating to retire Sen. Clinton's debts.

I think it would be absolutely great if she made it clear that she'd pay back the small vendors and other creditors first before paying back Mark Penn.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:52:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Donors Whine About Party Unity (2.00 / 4)

Indeed - it's really Penn that makes me pause.  The small vendors are hurting, though, and that makes me upset. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.


by NewOaklandDem on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:48:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Donors Whine About Party Unity (2.00 / 2)

I think the vendors will be paid either way - the Clintons have the money.  

I'd donate to Hillary Clinton anyway though, just to reward her for her FISA vote, but I feel like I should max out to Obama first before I give money to a suspended campaign.


by MeganLocke on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:58:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Donors Whine About Party Unity (2.00 / 3)

So the new argument is that he should have accepted public financing so that it would be easier for Hillary to retire her debt?

As far as the email to all of his small donors is concerned. This is what the Obama campaign had to say about that.

Obama told reporters Wednesday he wouldn't send an e-mail asking his small-dollar contributors to donate to Clinton because "their budgets are tighter" and they probably couldn't make much of a dent.

Instead of appealing to the small donors, like myself, he is targeting deep-pocket donors at fundraisers.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 12:49:48 PM EST

Thanks - link? (none / 0)

Could you provide a link?

It proves my point - Obama campaign reasoned they could not afford to divert money to Hillary. Obama needs MORE MONEY for his stadium, and even to spend evenly with John McCain he'll need to raise more than McCain because he opted out of public matching dollars.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:00:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks - link? (2.00 / 3)

I found that in an article about Obama helping to retire Hillary's debt. I'd have to spend some time searching to find it again. It's not really necessary. All it does is support the contention that the Obama campaign does not want to ask their smaller donors to help pay off Hillary's debt. They are asking larger donors to help.

There is more to opting out of public financing than raising money. It also generates a lot of contact information which can prove very useful during a campaign. 538.com has a good article about this. http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/07/o ther-advantage-of-opting-out.html


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:17:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks - link? (2.00 / 3)

IT"S HIS FREAKING CAMPAIGN!!!

Our world does not revolve around her needs. If she is only helping so she pays off her debt, that ain't much. Furthermore, why do we care what you think? You're all crazy, and to listen to you would be stupid, because you only want him to lose. Do you not see what a stupid position you guys have made for yourselves? You guys at the convention will be the equivalent of Code Pink. I look forward to seeing plenty of PUMAs there waving Obama sock monkeys around.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:18:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Guess you didn't read the diary (none / 0)

Gestures have a high ROI. He apparently needs money from her donors.

Yep - it is HIS campaign. This will benefit HIM.

Her donors are looking for magnanimity on his part. So far he's blowing it.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 03:53:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guess you didn't read the diary (none / 0)

Her donors would have her debt paid off if they all donated $1.


by upstate girl on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 04:05:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hell, they should buy the shirt! (none / 0)

it's pretty cool.  imagine if she got $50 from all the people who didn't max out on her (eg, catfish).  she could pay herself back.  and the shirt is definitely a keepsake for her supporters, symbolic of a real high water mark for her this year...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 04:28:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guess you didn't read the diary (2.00 / 1)

I think asking his high dollar donors to give money to Clinton on several different occasions is about as good as he can be expected to do.

The reason she's not getting money is not Obama's fault, it's hers. Obama supporters blame her for running a campaign after she pretty much knew she wouldn't win. Her fundraisers are mad because she took their money knowing this. Obama's fundraisers are mad because money and time was wasted that could have gone towards the general election. Besides that, Clinton donors are not just "Clinton" donors, they are also Democratic donors. And they have their own work to do.

As for his email list, most of those donors are relatively high-information voters. They might not read blogs every single day, but they at least have a friend who keeps them up to speed. When people post all over the internet that they want her debt retired so she can convince people to give her the nomination instead, what do you think that does?

I have no intention of ever giving money to her campaign again now, and that is almost entirely due to people coming on here and being so hateful and spiteful. I appreciate Clinton being humble and all, but I'm looking at ROI, and I don't see it, frankly.

But don't worry, Obama will send out a blast email, I predict. It won't actually do anything for the reasons I listed, but he'll probably send one out.

At which point you can find another reason to attack him. Because that's all you actually care about. And why I don't care.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 04:25:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Guess you didn't read the diary (none / 0)

I wanna tell you, too, since the diary I originally posted this on got deleted and I'm not going to post inflammatory crap on your boards...

The idea of Hillary being able to try and win the nomination in Denver after retiring her debt is silly. Do you know how bad that would be for her? You remember Amy Poehler's impression of her towards the end of the race? That would be her legacy for all time.

Nobody would donate money to her campaign because she swindled so many of them who wouldn't have given otherwise. Most of Obama's supporters would not vote for her because they would be angry and would have a legitimate reason to be so.

Most importantly, it would reinforce every single negative stereotype of Hillary Clinton that ever existed. And nobody would vote for her, because they would see her as an opportunist, a liar, and a cheat.

Your best option is to just stop this nonsense now. Stop thinking about it in terms of how you can still make it work and consider the possibilities from an objective standpoint. Just some friendly advice. You don't have to take it from me, just think it over.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 04:39:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Agreed it is silly. Giver her a roll call vote. (none / 0)

It is so silly to deny her a roll call vote on the paranoid grounds that they might award her the nomination.

Just give her the roll call vote so it can go down in history and stop being so paranoid.

Glad we agree on something.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 05:21:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It seems we do, and I'm glad. (none / 0)

No reason to not give her that roll call. I just don't want it turned into some giant protest. Or for people to raise the expectations that she will try backdoor maneuvering. And I know you probably don't want those talking points to exist either.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 05:31:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Donors Whine About Party Unity (2.00 / 5)

Next as a small Obama donor I did send an equal amount to the Hillary campaign to help with her debt.

I did put a note attached asking that my money not go towards Penn :)

In fairness not all her former supporters are helping either.

I think it is admirable of her to want to try to pay it back, but since her campaign is over, I don't know what to tell her," Fye says. "As far as donating any further, I'm now shifting my support to another candidate."

Joseph Bringman of Seattle, Wash., says he was glad to have donated while Clinton was running. But he says he's not about to write another check. "Given the way the campaign was misdirected early on, when Clintons campaign coffers were full," he says. "I'm not inclined to contribute further solely for debt relief.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:01:01 PM EST

Re: Obama Donors Whine About Party Unity (2.00 / 1)

This should be bolded:
Joseph Bringman of Seattle, Wash., says he was glad to have donated while Clinton was running. But he says he's not about to write another check. "Given the way the campaign was misdirected early on, when Clintons campaign coffers were full," he says. "I'm not inclined to contribute further solely for debt relief.

If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:14:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Donors Whine About Party Unity (2.00 / 1)

Why don't you go make a big donation to Hillary right now.  I sent her $25 when she endorsed Obama.  If she and her husband starts campaigning really hard for Obama I will send her more money.  If Hillary's fundraisers come through for Obama I will send her more money.  So far, I ain't see much from Hillary's small donors to Obama.


by Spanky on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:17:02 PM EST

Why should Bill Clinton campaign for race-baiting (1.00 / 3)

Obama who never apologized for insinuating Bill Clinton was a racist? For insinuating Reagan was a better president?


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:24:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, you rascal (2.00 / 2)

You'll never let us forget that percieved slight, ya goof.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:26:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

TR for race-baiting (2.00 / 4)

Enough.


by JJE on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:28:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yuck (2.00 / 1)

He said no such thing and you know it.  He said Reagan's presidency had a bigger impact.  And it did - even Paul Krugman agrees.

And Sean Wilentz the Princeton historian who people like to quote because he loathes Barack Obama just wrote a book called something like "1980 - 2004: The Reagan Years".


by MeganLocke on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:43:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

you really need to see someone... (2.00 / 2)

barack obama never insinuated any such thing.  many, many black democrats were deeply offended by clinton's use of racist frames, and have stated so for over a year.  some of us actually stand up to racists...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:37:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He looked the other way, he's good at that (1.00 / 4)

He could be a leader and quell racial tensions. Instead he allowed his brownshirts to inflame them because it was politically expedient. Classy.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 03:54:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He looked the other way, he's good at that (none / 0)

TR'd for the Nazi reference.  Get a grip.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 04:00:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He looked the other way, he's good at that (2.00 / 2)

Not as classy as calling Democrats Nazi thugs. You have the market cornered on that level of class.


by upstate girl on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 04:02:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So Obama (none / 0)

is supposed to tell black people to hush up? You see that as his role?

How about Hillary telling people to not put him on magazine covers with crosshairs? When did she address that? Did I miss it?


by Neef on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 04:28:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i'm calling bullshit... (none / 0)

after you've maxed out for hillary AND run for office, you'd have credibility to speak to this.  you've done neither...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 04:30:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Donors Whine About (none / 0)

Why don't you go make a big donation to Hillary right now.  I sent her $25 when she endorsed Obama.  If she and her husband starts campaigning really hard for Obama I will send her more money.  If Hillary's fundraisers come through for Obama I will send her more money.  So far, I ain't see much from Hillary's small donors to Obama.


by Spanky on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:17:26 PM EST

tradition? (2.00 / 5)

It's tradition to send an email?  Must be an awfully recent new tradition...


The future is unwritten
by Strummerson on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 01:25:18 PM EST

of course not... (2.00 / 1)

catfish just made shit up.  has obama sent out an email to retire bill richardson's dent?  john edwards'?  chris dodd's?  of course not.

catfish is being duplicitous because hillary's campaign would dearly love to have access to obama's email list (she asked him for a copy).  this is just another way to get at it.  frickin' hypocrites...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:39:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: of course not... (2.00 / 1)

No WAY, is that part of it?


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 02:45:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yes... (2.00 / 1)

part of bennett's request to barack.  i can't say i blame her for asking (i'd like a copy, too!) -- and no one can blame them for refusing...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 04:31:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: yes... (none / 0)

Yeah, I think I'd tell him to piss off in that case, too. I thought they just wanted Obama's people to send out an email asking, not give them all the addresses they sent them to. I thought that the insults were just heated talk and venting, but they really DO think we're morons, don't they?


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 04:48:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Opposite - Obama wants Hillary's list for G.E. (none / 0)

quid pro quo, something Obama supporters don't understand.


by catfish2 on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 05:22:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Opposite - Obama wants Hillary's list for G.E. (none / 0)

I was never under the impression that Clinton's list was that valuable. Granted, they're both good, I'm sure, but Obama spent way more time and energy developing his. His was the one I remember hearing tons about even before the race was over.

Maybe not. But it seems like an unbalanced tradeoff. Clinton gets a huge network of email addresses and millions in debt paid off from people who otherwise have no reason to give her money. Obama gets a smaller network of devout supporters, many of whom don't like him, and all he has to gain is some potential extra money in the GE that he'd be relatively likely to receive anyway as the nominee.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 05:45:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i was under the impression that she gave... (none / 0)

barack her list.  i have not read or heard that he asked for it (it's fairly common for primary losers to do this).  if you have a link where it says that he asked -- especially via robert bennett -- i'd love to see that.  given the fact that barack will be our next president, and the fact that hillary craves a prime time speaking slot at the convention, i would have thought she would do the conventionally-expected things.

the difference is that you are asking for extraordinary things, things no other campaign has received, presumably so that you can continue to resent barack.  which only begs the question: why are you here?  this blog wouldn't seem to be suited for your need to swiftboat democrats.  i am sure that your hypocrisy would be appreciated elsewhere...


"Anyone who voted for me or caucused for me has so much more in common with Senator Obama than Senator McCain." -- Hillary Clinton
by bored now on Fri Jul 11, 2008 at 06:15:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

<