The Plan to Divide Us

They're doing it.

The Republicans.

They're doing it.

And as we know, all so painfully well, they are good at it.

While many of us have been debating whether or not Hillary conceded in time to guarantee financial support to retire her campaign debt or a spot on the ticket, the Republicans are wheeling out their public relations campaign to attract disaffected Clinton supporters.

Today, the New York Times editorial page asked thirteen political "experts" to give their opinions as to why Hillary was defeated.  It could not be better scripted to divide us.

From Republican Congresswoman Heather Wilson:

The Democratic nominating system favors the most liberal candidate -- in this case, Barack Obama.

But there is a second reason Hillary Clinton lost that some are reluctant to openly acknowledge: a latent and lamentable sexism. She lost because the superdelegates -- the Democratic establishment -- went against her.

She became a caricature: too smart, too strong, too assertive, too rational, too competent. Think how the young Harry Potter and his male friends initially reacted to Hermione Granger and you get the idea.

From former New Jersey Governor Christine Todd Whitman:

Fifteen years after I was elected New Jersey's first female governor, women running for office continue to face huge obstacles. Indeed, watching Hillary Clinton these last few months, it's clear that voters and the news media still struggle with images and expectations of women as candidates.

When Mrs. Clinton made points forcefully, people called her shrill, not bold and determined. When Mitt Romney teared up, he was described as compassionate, while she was labeled weak.

For its part, the news media paid too much attention to Mrs. Clinton's haircuts and jackets, ignoring the male candidates and their endless parade of blue suits and red ties.

The press presented Barack Obama with his two years in the Senate as an agent of change, not a novice. In contrast, ABC's Charles Gibson asked Mrs. Clinton if she would "be in this position" if it weren't for her husband.

To this day, a businessman with no elected experience is considered qualified for high public office; a woman with the same background is called unprepared.

Mrs. Clinton's sex was not solely responsible for her loss, but the implicit and explicit challenges that women face are such that we as a country must take notice if we want all people represented in public service.

And to top it off, we have former Virginia governor L. Douglas Wilder

Hillary Clinton's campaign was done in by a sense of entitlement and hubris.

There is no greater evidence of that than the fact that, three days after the final two primaries in the campaign for the Democratic presidential nomination, she had yet to gracefully acknowledge her defeat. By waiting so long, she threatened her future stature within the Democratic Party.

The question now should not be, "What about Hillary?" but rather, how does Mr. Obama plan to win and to lead -- with or without Mrs. Clinton.

Here we have two Republican women discussing the sexism faced by Senator Clinton and a Democratic African-American male citing her hubris.  An article meant to divide our party at this crucial time could not be more perfectly scripted.

To my fellow Clintonistas, I say these Republicans are not our friends.  These are the people that hate Hillary and seek to capitalize on our anger and frustration.  Congresswoman Wilson and Governor Whitman are George Bush Republicans and their sympathy for Senator Clinton is rather convenient, if not disingenuous.  Where was Gov. Whitman's outrage when the Washington Post ran a story about Hillary's cleavage?

To my progressive brothers and sisters who supported other candidates, at this time, I ask you to empathize, not criticize.  Their plan to divide us depends on us turning on each other.  We all believe in universal health care.  We all believe in reproductive rights.  We all believe that we must end the war in Iraq.  We all believe in marriage equality.  A bitter primary battle should not change that.

Please remember, these people are on the wrong side of history.

John McCain wants 100 years of war.

John McCain hates poor people.

John McCain wants to create the world's first ever fetus police.

John McCain admires George Bush's foreign policy.

John McCain loves the lobbyists he says he hates.

John McCain wants to give Social Security to Wall Street.

If we haven't learned anything from the relentless coverage of Hillary's cleavage and Obama's lapel pin, we should understand that the media is not our friend.  They don't want us to succeed.  They want us to fail.   They want Democrats to be divided.  What an exciting story to cover:  The Democrats implode and fight amongst themselves and hand the White House to their darling John McCain.

Don't let them do it.



Display:


These people are NOT our friends! (2.00 / 20)

I "crossed the picket line" and posted this diary at  Daily Kos because I am so worried about this.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:56:27 AM EST

Re: These people are NOT our friends! (2.00 / 8)

I will head over there and rec you for it there as well...


"If you ever post anything on that website again, I will shove a motherboard so far up your a$$...!" C.J Cregg
by JenKinFLA on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:06:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks, Drew! (2.00 / 6)

Someone needs to expose these GOP charlatans for what they are. If these GOP women are so concerned about the misogyny used against Hillary now, why didn't they speak up before the last primaries? Because they're only showing "concern" now to woo us to John McBush's camp? Gimme a break!


Want to defend marriage equality in Maine? Ask me how!
by atdleft on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:06:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, Drew! (2.00 / 7)

They don't care about us.  They want to divide our party and I'm not going to let the people who handed the White House to W in 2000 because Gore was boring get away with it again.

Never again!


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:11:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, Drew! (2.00 / 3)

The more intelligent among us are always less interesting to those less gifted.  Just watch my eyes glaze while reading an article about string theory.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:24:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I can relate. (2.00 / 5)

I can put people to sleep when I talk about learning styles and cognition.

Don't laugh.

Okay, laugh.  My boyfriend does, too.  It's ok.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:28:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I can relate. (2.00 / 5)

Zzzzzzzzzz.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:34:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, Drew! (2.00 / 3)

You know what? You're right about that but where were the Dems on these issues? Instead of constantly screaming for her to get out people like Leahy should have spent his time taking Cohen to the woodshed for his comments. What was the answer? Crickets.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:57:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, Drew! (2.00 / 4)

I agree.  There should have been a much greater outcry, but I'm not giving the White House to John McCain as punishment to the Democratic Party.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:45:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: These people are NOT our friends! (2.00 / 3)

Phantom rec.

And real rec where I can still give one...


Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics
by chrisblask on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:15:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: These people are NOT our friends! (2.00 / 2)

Glad you posted both places - thanks.


Anthropologists for human diversity; opposing racism,sexism,homophobism, ageism and ethnocentrism.
by NeciVelez on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:15:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The media is part of the corporatocracy (2.00 / 3)

that has a death grip on our nation.

Of course they want the Dems to fail. Hence the constant harping on Rev. Wright while ignoring Hagee & Parsley. In fact, the didn't even dig into Huckabee's right-wing beliefs.

They use what they can against the Dems and the Dems either beat it back or not.

Wilson made a funny though. Sen. Clinton had 100 delegate lead before the contest started and was nearly universally described as the inevitable nominee. She was the establishment.


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:58:58 AM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 6)

Democratic women have been saying what these two Republican women are saying for months. Their voices have fallen on deaf ears evidently you haven't heard them either..

Blacks turned in mass against the Clintons embraced the lie the Clintons are racists, did you really expect Wilder to say anything different from what Clyburn or Brazile haven't said?


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:59:26 AM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 2)

As 50% of African-Americans want Clinton as VP you seem to be the one peddling in some lies.


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:01:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 3)

Lies? Only the lie that you told yourself what you wrote has anything to do with what I wrote.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:22:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

Yeah African-Americans really want a VP that they think is racist.


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:30:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 2)

And what does that have to do with the fact that they abandoned her in the primary and suggested that the Clintons were racists or used racists tactics while ignoring Obama's transgressions?  Or the fact that Donna Brazile and Rep. Clyburn pretty much threatened that Blacks would stay home if your guy wasn't the nominee?

Another thing we can do for unity is to get rid of Donna Brazile.  That would go a long way towards my personal unity.  Every time I have to see her it makes my blood boil.


On the train thanks to HRC...
by BRockNYC on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:11:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 3)

This election isn't about you.

As far as "they" suggesting that the Clintons were racist or used racist tactics perhaps you can supply me with a poll or study supporting that claim.


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:16:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Who is this election about then if not me?


On the train thanks to HRC...
by BRockNYC on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:40:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

It's about our country.


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:42:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

As for examples, I invite you to do a little google search on Donna Brazile and Rep. Clyburn and Rep. Jesse Jackson, Jr.


On the train thanks to HRC...
by BRockNYC on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:42:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

3 people who as far as I can find haven't been elected Chiefs of the Black People.


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:42:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

They sure claimed to be.  And the "super" delegates listened to them and acted accordingly.  you may not like it, but it is true.

My vote is for my country and I will vote straight Democrat.  My time, money and energy is about me and I will not go quietly into the false unity night.


On the train thanks to HRC...
by BRockNYC on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:47:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

They claimed to be Chiefs of the Black People? Perhaps you can give me a link to that claim. That's wild!


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

Perhaps you were asleep during the last few months, but yes they claimed to we, African Americans, would revolt if the supers did not follow the pledged delegates.  Again, you are more than welcome to use the services of google.  I think it is available to anyone with the internets.  :-)


On the train thanks to HRC...
by BRockNYC on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:55:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Google isn't showing me where they claimed to be the spokespeople for the millions of African-Americans.


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:59:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail /2008/04/25/clyburn_warns_democratic_par ty.html


On the train thanks to HRC...
by BRockNYC on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:02:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Yeah I'm still seeing someone stating their opinion but I'm missing the part about where they speak for millions.

At this point I must conclude that you don't have any evidence supporting that point and merely have the opinions of 3 people.


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:17:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

Of course, you can choose to believe what you wish.  But, if you don't understand the clout of Rep. Clyburn and Donna Brazile as voices for African Americans then you don't understand the Democratic party and surely don't understand African American politics.


On the train thanks to HRC...
by BRockNYC on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:27:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

I certainly understand that you are simply voicing your opinion and are unable to show that any of them speak for the millions upon millions of African-Americans in the United States. You're certainly entitled to your opinion but it has not yet been established as fact.


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:31:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

It isn't a question of if it is true that they actually speak for millions of people, but if their threats had an impact on the supers.  If  you can't read beyond the written/spoken words than how can you begin to understand politics?  You don't buy that the "warnings" were actually "threats"?


On the train thanks to HRC...
by BRockNYC on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:37:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

it is a question of if it's true or not that they speak for millions. Now you've moved beyond your first if and added a new layer! Now it's a matter of if they speak for millions (did they take a poll or have a meeting?) and a matter of IF the supers were threatened?

Do I think "warnings" are "threats"? In some instances perhaps but you need a few things. You need a person or group who has the power to make individuals (in this instance African-Americans) do something they wouldn't have done in the first place. You haven't been able to show any of that.

The person who won the most delegates is the presumptive nominee.

Doesn't seem like it should have turned out any other way.


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:45:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

I should also point on that neither Clyburn nor Brazille called the Clintons racist.


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:34:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

Of course those words did use those words, but they allowed the charges to fester.  They failed to lift a finger.  Jesse Jackson, on the other hand, defended the Clintons while still advocating Obama.  I suppose that distinction is lost on you?


On the train thanks to HRC...
by BRockNYC on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:44:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

They allowed the charges to fester?

Who made those charges and since when is it their responsibility to do anything about such charges?

Jesse Jackson doesn't speak for all the African-Americans but Clyburn and Brazille do?


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:47:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

This election isn't about you.

I suggest you review some of Obama's talking points. According to him, it is most certainly about me.


by SophieL on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:28:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

I thought I was the one I was waiting for?  so it really is all about me...or at least my vote..no?


by emmasaint on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 11:46:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Thank you. My words exactly.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:21:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You've got quotes, right? (none / 0)

You've got quotes to back up your accusations about Clyburn and Brazile, don't you?


by BlueinColorado on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:02:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

Just a couple of things...

First the poll you speak of was from 12 May.

Second the poll has an over-sample of 206 African American's, not quite a large sample or what I would even call statistically significant.

Third, Here is what Clyburn and Brazile have said...along w/ a few others, so you won't have to strain to hard:

Clyburn:

"There are African-Americans who have reached the decision that the Clintons know that she can't win this. But they're hell-bound to make it impossible for Obama to win."

"Many of the surrogates in the Clinton campaign of recent days have been saying things that have been angering African American voters over again," he said. "I mean, who played the race card on President Clinton? ... What does he mean by that unless he is trying to send some kind of signal on race?"

Mr. Clyburn said Mr. Clinton's conduct in this campaign had caused what might be an irreparable breach between Mr. Clinton and an African-American constituency that once revered him. "When he was going through his impeachment problems, it was the black community that bellied up to the bar," Mr. Clyburn said. "I think black folks feel strongly that that this is a strange way for President Clinton to show his appreciation.  Mr. Clyburn added that there appeared to be an almost "unanimous" view among African-Americans that Mr. and Mrs. Clinton were "committed to doing everything they possibly can to damage Obama to a point that he could never win."

And then to cap it off on June 4...

Before South Carolina's primary, Mr. Clyburn admonished Sen. Clinton for suggesting President Johnson deserved more credit than Martin Luther King Jr. for civil-rights laws. On primary night, Mr. Clinton called Mr. Clyburn and they spoke for 50 minutes. "Let's just say it wasn't pleasant," Mr. Clyburn says.

Mr. Clinton called Mr. Clyburn an expletive, say Democrats familiar with the exchange. Mr. Clyburn's office would confirm only that the former president used "offensive" words. Some day soon, the congressman says, he'll write about the incident. On Tuesday, he endorsed Mr. Obama for president.

Brazile:

For him to go after Obama, using a fairy tale, calling him as he did last week. It's an insult. And I will tell you, as an African-American, I find his tone and his words to be very depressing.

For him to go after Obama, using a fairy tale, calling him as he did last week. It's an insult. And I will tell you, as an African-American, I find his tone and his words to be very depressing.

In short, Brazile provided a pointed reminder that some voters (African Americans, in particular, we would think) might recall that Wright did not turn on Clinton's husband during an hour of need for him.

And I wonder if Brazile will stick to her words and quit the Party...

"If 795 of my colleagues decide this election, I will quit the Democratic Party. I feel very strongly about this," Donna Brazile told CNN this week.

"There's a group around [Sen. Clinton] that really wants to take the fight to the convention. They don't care about the party. It scares me, and that's what scares a lot of superdelegates."

"I think it's going to come down to: Do you really want Bill Clinton back in the White House?" said Donna Brazile, who ran Democrat Al Gore's 2000 presidential campaign.


Well I guess that's one way to say things have 'changed'.
by TxDem08 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 07:30:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

If the superdelegates had split down the middle, Obama would have won because of his lead in elected delegates.

As a matter of fact, they could have favored Hillary Clinton slightly.  Obama still would have won.

That "I wonder when Donna Brazile is going to quit" has been thrown around and I simply have no idea what it's supposed to mean, because what she was warning against did not happen.  (Incidentally, she later amended her quote to say that she meant "if they decide the election BEFORE EVERYONE HAS HAD A CHANCE TO VOTE."  That didn't happen either.  This was all in February, mind you).


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:56:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

The final if is If superdelegates didn't exist there would never have been any question of who the nominee would have been.

That's the final rebut to all this nonsense about the party elite handing him the nomination.


by Skex on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:22:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Oh I agree.  The fact that the superdelegates did end up favoring him has obscured that fact, although to my mind it takes willful ignorance to ignore it.


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 11:23:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Not deaf ears. (2.00 / 6)

I am very angry about the way that Hillary was treated in the media.  I can't express it without using the f-word, my head spinning on my shoulders, steam shooting out of ears, and vomiting pea soup.

But the answer is not handing the White House to John McCain.  The GOP and the media want to exploit us, our anger for their own benefit.  They don't care about us.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:05:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not deaf ears. (2.00 / 1)

Do the Dems care about us either? That is my question? I would venture the answer is no.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:00:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not deaf ears. (none / 0)

Us? Who is "us"?


The plural of anecdote is not data.
by LiberalDebunker on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:17:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not deaf ears. (2.00 / 2)

Us?  We are the Democrats?

Mistakes were made here, no doubt.  A lot of people went apeshit over the Faux News madrassa smear against Obama, but nobody cared about the cleavage editorial in the WashingtonPost.

I'm going to give a lot of Democrats the benefit of the doubt here on the sexism stuff because I expect the same from them with respect to the issues of race-baiting against the Clintons.  This election broke new ground and we were all on uncharted territory.

The Democratic Party has a stronger record on race and gender issues than the GOP.  The GOP doesn't give two shits about anybody that isn't white, straight, rich and evangelical.  The rest of us can piss off.  They play these games to divide us and I'm not falling for it.

I'm not enthusiastic about Obama (yet) but I'm going to vote for him if for no other reason that to PISS OFF George Bush.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:24:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not deaf ears. (none / 0)

When did sexism become new ground?


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:30:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Can't it be a combination? (none / 0)

I think that you are absolutely right, and that some of the reason for Clinton's demise was the fact that she is a woman.  But, I'm very hesitent to agree that it was the ONLY reason.  
I think another part of the whole was the way she ran her campaign.  I do think that she was not prepared for the primary to hit all the states and therefore was unprepared.  I think too that Bosnia, the fact that she is a Clinton (male or female), and her opponent all combined in her loss.
Let me say again that I think the fact that she is a woman did play a part, but let's not assume it was the only thing that doomed her chances.  
by chill on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 10:40:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't it be a combination? (none / 0)

Let's not forget the Iraq vote too...this is BIG in a whole lot of people's eyes.


by chill on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 11:42:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can't it be a combination? (none / 0)

I have never written or said she lost because of sexism.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 11:51:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He's also enough of a misogynist to make (2.00 / 3)

even Rick Santorum look semi-feminist in comparison.


by bobdoleisevil on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 11:59:40 AM EST

Re: He's also enough of a misogynist to make (2.00 / 2)

I'm sorry.  Who's that?  Gov. Wilder?  I don't know much about him.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:07:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Senator McCain (I suppose Wilder might be, (none / 0)

I don't know enough about him to clearly say otherwise).


by bobdoleisevil on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:48:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Beware of McCain trolls masquerading as (2.00 / 6)

Clinton "supporters" who join MyDD solely to proclaim they're voting for McCain as committed Democrats because of sexism.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:07:23 PM EST

Re: Beware of McCain trolls masquerading as (2.00 / 3)

A lot of them are so obvious.  There was one a few weeks ago who referred to the "Democrat Party."

They're not so smart, those GOP trolls.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:16:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Beware of McCain trolls masquerading as (none / 0)

I saw one troll talking about how Obama is a communist and how it was beyond the pale for him to endanger our country by talking to foreign dictators.  Could this person have been any more transparent?  I mean, communism?


by Philoguy on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 09:14:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Beware of McCain trolls masquerading as (2.00 / 2)

There are a slew of 'Clinton 'supporters' voting for McCain' spreading across the internet....hitting sites that support Hillary and riling up REAL Hillary supporters who are still reeling from the past few days events.

The VAST majority of Hillary Supporters see through such tactics...but is sad and frustrating to see how many are getting roped in. I am confident that most will see through it in the long run....but, all I can do now is shake my head.

All we can do is focus on defeating McCain....they will, or will not, join us in their own time.
Thankfully, most will.


by Kysen on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:42:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's nice that we can agree on this. n/t (none / 0)


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:26:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 4)

They may be trying to double cross, triple flip and over screw me in their effort to gain my vote, but I actually agree with what the first two quotes say, and Wilder is a Democrat.  The quote from Wilder is actually the most decisive.  I don't get your point.  How it this an effort to trick democrats into voting for the republicans?  Women are sometimes women first not republicans first, and might be allowed to have a opinion if someone gives them permission to voice the truth.


by Scotch on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:15:18 PM EST

Let me clarify. (2.00 / 2)

I am criticizing the media and these so-called moderate Republicans.

First, I find these two GOP women to be very disengenous as they now wait until the end to speak out.  Bullshit.

Second, I criticize the NY Times for using an African-American Democrat to criticize Hillary and Republican women to cite sexism at this sensitive time.

Both the media and the GOP have an interest in dividing our party.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:20:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me clarify. (2.00 / 1)

What is Wilder's interest?  The paper might have quoted him but he was the one who actually said the words.  How is that the republican's fault?


by Scotch on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:29:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me clarify. (none / 0)

It's not.  I find it very convenient that the media is using Wilder's words.  It fits very nicely with the narrative of a divided Democratic Party and they would like nothing more than to cover a story about fighting between women and African-Americans.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:31:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me clarify. (none / 0)

Wilder is no newcomer to politics.

He didn't have to say what he said.

Wilder was the first black governor of Virginia and if my memory is correct the first black governor of any state in the United States.

So this isn't really a media issue. He was using Clyburn and Brazile talking points. He was speaking his mind.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:36:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me clarify. (none / 0)

What Wilder says is different than what Clyburn says which in turn is different than what Brazile says.

Anyway, Wilder is neither the first black governor nor is he a particularly effective spokesperson for anything or anyone.  Nor does he have any sort of real following.

This isn't the first time he's shoved his foot in his mouth.  And this is, presumably, why he was chosen to speak.


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:00:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me clarify. (none / 0)

You really don't know what Clyburn and Brazile have said do you?

Since you're an Obama supporter you need to bone up on your black history. I can tell you really don't know your black people.  

Wilder does hold the distinction of being the first black governor elected (1990) in the United States.

He was an unsuccessful Democratic candidate for president in '92.

That's all.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 02:37:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me clarify. (none / 0)

I know what Clyburn and Brazile said.  All three of them have said different things.  I also know that Brazile is probably the most misquoted person of the year.  She's also been getting a daily barage of hatemail.

"Know your black people" is cute, but only a fool would argue that they speak for one another as you're doing.

Anyway, I'm so sure that Douglas Wilder is not the first black governor that I'm not even going to bother looking it up.  I don't know who is, but the idea that there would have been none during Reconstruction is insane.


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 11:32:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me clarify. (none / 0)

According to Wikipedia, the first African American governor of a state was P.B.S. Pinchback, who became governor of Louisiana in 1872. He wasn't elected to the post, though.

Link


by nomadic on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:02:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me clarify. (none / 0)

Thanks.

I knew it.


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:05:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me clarify. (none / 0)

Look the Republicans see a huge opening here with a large bloc of the Democratic party.  Why is it evil that they try to get that vote?  One could even argue that they are trying to reach across the aisle etc.  Of course the Republicans are full of crap.  But in my opinion, I am almost as disgusted with the Democrats.

My issue is that I feel that the Democratic party has condoned and encouraged the destruction of Hillary Clinton because they figured women would give up and fall in line while the young men and AA would not.  They gambled I guess.  My choice is do I enable this kind of behavior by my party by voting for Obama? Or do I say - guess what guys you overplayed you hand and I vote third party or whatever.  Because sometimes you do have to send a message.  That is what I have to decide and calling people like me names or threatening me with Roe etc doesn't work.  In fact, it makes it worse.  


by emmasaint on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 11:53:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me clarify. (none / 0)

My issue is that I feel that the Democratic party has condoned and encouraged the destruction of Hillary Clinton because they figured women would give up and fall in line while the young men and AA would not.  They gambled I guess.

How?  If there were no superdelegates Obama would have still won - and won more easily.  In fact, Hillary Clinton probably would have conceded after Wisconsin, when it became impossible for her to catch up in delegates.  

I don't understand where the idea that Obama won because the party chose him comes from.  As a matter of fact, they did not.  Hillary Clinton had a lead in superdelegates until right before the very end.  She had a lead before a single vote had been cast.

Unless by the Democratic Party you mean the voters, in which case I'd argue that they don't think in those terms.


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:04:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

I have noticed an uptick in posts that appear to be "trolls" during the last week.  (Even more so at Kos).  It looks like an organized campaign .. to help divide us from the inside.

The issues this election are huge.  They are huge for the future of my grandchildren.  We cannot afford four years of McCain.  But the Pubs will not give up the power of the White House easily.  And if McCain gets elected, the courts will be affected for years into the future.  


by JWC on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:20:31 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

This really scares me, too.

This year is just too important to lose. We cannot let them divide us.


by pomology on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:24:30 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 2)

That's all they know how to do.  Democrats govern.  Republicans attack and divide.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:38:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Well, you can't blame them. It's much harder to govern than to attack and divide. The Republicans are just lazy.

I hope the Democrats will use the brains and effort they use to govern into countering the Republican tactics.


by pomology on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:48:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (1.00 / 5)

Should have thought of that months ago. If Obama had decided to be about issues rather than personality crap then maybe this wouldn't have happened. His angry and arrogant supporters using sledgehammers and threats all over the blogs didn't help him either. Too many people turned off.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:54:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

It's funny that you would threaten the fate of this country and the world because of what some people said on the internet.


by pomology on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:59:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

Where were you when all this was happening? On the sidelines egging it on I guess. And now that people are ticked off this seems to be your standard response: what someone said on the internet. It's not just what his supporters said. It's also what his own campaign and campaign surrogates have said.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:03:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Actually, I wasn't actively involved in the blogosphere then. I just lurked. And I didn't really like the way anybody was behaving. I saw both sides making the same insulting arguments about the other candidate and I thought they were both wrong.


by pomology on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:06:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What??? (2.00 / 1)

That's impossible. Republicans appeal to people's sensibilities. They would never stoop to preying on anger and fear. :o|

ok ok... just kidding


Gobama!
by USArmyParatrooper on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:25:27 PM EST

Re: What??? (2.00 / 2)

I read a story about how they won an election by scaring the people into thinking that gay terrorists were going to get married and take over America and force everyone to memorize the theory of evolution and by painting a Vietnam war hero as a coward and traitor.

Can you believe it!?


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:32:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The Republicans may be cooking the feast (2.00 / 2)

but the Democrats brought in the harvest.  Its the Democrats who gave these Republicans their material.  

Rather than ask Hillary supporters to just suck it up, maybe some Democrats should try to undo some of the damage.  Maybe Kos should admit that Alegre, far from being silly, actually had a legitimate point.  Maybe Obama supporters should acknowlege that they used sexist-charged imagery to defeat Hillary and humiliate her supporters.  Maybe Obama himself should decry the use of vulger references to Hillary Clinton's female anatomy in common parlance. Maybe TPM should admit that their analysis of the debates was profoundly biased and their double standard with in Wright vs. Ferraro.

Maybe you should think about some other strategy than just bullying.  That's would happenend in the primary season and that's what you  all are trying again.  Maybe you might want to try a concialliatory strategy that acknowledges legitimate complaints.


by dbrown04 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:28:10 PM EST

Re: The Republicans may be cooking the feast (none / 0)

What, is this "periodically" again?  You're not the most credible spokesperson for this.


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:03:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

For its part, the news media paid too much attention to Mrs. Clinton's haircuts and jackets, ignoring the male candidates and their endless parade of blue suits and red ties.

------

Pretty funny, actually.

Everybody knows the biggest sartorial issue of the primary was whether or not Obama wore a flag pin.


by Bush Bites on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:28:43 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Or Edwards's haircut. The coverage of THAT got a million times more press and coverage than all of Hillary's appearance issues put together.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 05:54:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Uh...the media WAS sexist towards Hillary (2.00 / 3)

That's not GOP talking points, that's reality. Further, I'm not sure I see the point of this diary. Are you saying we should keep our mouths shut on something that was so blatant.

Was sexism the lone reason for her defeat, of course not. But it DID play a role.


by Chelsea in 2020 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:34:04 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

I think it's more than an attempt to divide us.

They want to tar the Democrats as sexists, to hopefully get a few "security moms" back and appeal to fair-minded independents.

If Obama lost, they would have called the Democrats the party of racists, in the hopes up upper their African-American and independent supporters that way.

In fact, when it looked like Hillary was going to reocver and take it, I remember very clearly Repubs saying the Democrats were too racist to nominate an African American.

If you want to argue with them, you really have to put the onus on them:

Why have the Repubs never had a member of a minority groups as its nominee, why have they never had a woman on their ticket?

Obviously, Repubs are racist and sexist.


by Bush Bites on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:35:05 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

And, by the way, somebody should ask them why they didn't even have one female candidate in their primaries, much less one who was a frontrunner for much of the time.

Todd-Whitman put her feet in the water with her "it's our party too" campaign, decided the Repubs would never accept a female except maybe one who was a fundie from the South, and sat on the sidelines.


by Bush Bites on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:48:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A Plan to unite us (2.00 / 1)

Obama selects Hill as VP.  Problem solved.


formerly bookgirl
by masslib1 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:39:32 PM EST

Hopefully (2.00 / 3)

I really don't think she wants it.  I think she wants the offer, but I don't think she'd actually do it.  I want Hillary to pursue her own agenda and I just don't see her being able to do that as VP.  I would rather see her in the Senate.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:47:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hopefully (2.00 / 3)

The only way you can really have power as VP is if you're a slimy bastard like Cheney.

Hillary far too decent a person to be able to succeed as VP.


by pomology on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:49:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Plan to unite us (none / 0)

People grow up. Problem solved.

In all seriousness you cannot believe that out of 300,000,000 Americans only Hillary Clinton can be given serious consideration.

Wesley Clark is my first choice but I recognize he's not the Holy Grail.


Gobama!
by USArmyParatrooper on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:51:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Plan to unite us (none / 0)

Hillary is by far the best choice for VP.


by Chelsea in 2020 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:11:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Plan to unite us (none / 0)

Not for Obama.

He needs somebody with a military background against McCain.


by Bush Bites on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:13:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary is unique (none / 0)

She has appeal to the existing military command and she is perceived (correctly, I believe) as having foreign policy experience.

If Obama doesn't pick Hillary (at least offer it to her), he'll have to go non-traditional.  He can't pick any member of Congress who voted for the war.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:36:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Plan to unite us (none / 0)

Yep. And Obama can't afford to have the entire news cycles dominated with "Who is REALLY in charge?
Will Bill dominate the White House? How bad is the tension today?"

It will totally undercut Obama's ability to govern.


by rhetoricus on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:19:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Plan to unite us (none / 0)

"Hillary is by far the best choice for VP." in YOUR opinion.


Gobama!
by USArmyParatrooper on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:53:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

First time I've seen that poster (none / 0)

"Chelsea in 2020".  Blatant assertions with no supporting arguments?  A username that feeds the dynasty meme?

I have no doubt this poster wants Hillary on the ticket.  But I suspect it's to have someone to run against, not vote for.


by corph on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 11:00:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A Plan to unite us (none / 0)

Right on! That's the ticket.


by SophieL on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:40:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Very nice (2.00 / 1)

I went over to Dkos and gave you a rec, I'll stay and bash anyone who bashes you as well, I don't have TU status over there as this is my primary internet home, but I can be acerbic at times :)


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:45:26 PM EST

Re: Very nice (2.00 / 1)

Nobody's bashing me at Dkos.  We're actually having a nice discussion over there.

Congrats on the Joementum!


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:53:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I saw that (none / 0)

Soon I will have paid my penance and will be free from this shaming sig, but until I have I use it as a reminder to watch myself more carefully.  I figure 10 more down ballot diaries/issue pieces and i can be free of it.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:56:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

All the arguments... (none / 0)

the Republicans are using had their genesis in the "progressive" blogs with their relentless, personal attacks on Clinton and her supporters.


by Ed J on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:46:42 PM EST

FIXED (none / 0)

All the arguments the Republicans are using against Obama had their genesis in the MyDD, Hillaryis44 and TalkLeft blogs with their relentless, personal attacks on Obama and his supporters.


Two riders were approaching......the wind begins to howl!
by John in Chicago on Thu Jun 19, 2008 at 10:49:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 4)

It's unfortunate but Obama has passively agressively encouraged this kind of stuff. He is making it easy for women to not vote for him. The GOP will remind everyone of his and michelle's statements during the campaign. I warned of this for months but the Obama supporters seemed to think it was all funny and a joke. Too late smart for the supporters and the campaign.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:50:14 PM EST

I have a lot of hard feelings. (2.00 / 4)

I really don't think that Barack and Michelle passively-agressively encourage sexism any more than I believe that Bill and Hillary encouraged racism.

This was a difficult campaign.  We broke major ground here and both sides had to learn new rules for dealing with minority opponents.  We've never been in a situation where we had two equally popular, heavily funded minority opponents like this.  They broke major ground here.  With the media constantly in their faces looking to parse every statement into something evil, it's no wonder they found something.

I see it as being similar to people who say, "That's gay."  They're not homophobic, but when I hear that, it really bothers me.  It does, but I don't say anything, because I understand what they mean.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a lot of hard feelings. (2.00 / 1)

I'm not talking necessarily about sexism so much as the stupid and arrogant comments from both Barack and Michelle like "I'll get her supporters but she won't get mine" and "I might vote for Hillary, it depends on her 'tone' her demeanor etc". And the race baiting from the Obama campaign has really damaged his electoral chances. Do you think that the average voter wants to continually be called a racist anytime they question Obama?


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:06:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a lot of hard feelings. (none / 0)

Agree.

That was a stupid thing to say.


by Bush Bites on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:11:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a lot of hard feelings. (2.00 / 3)

That line about all of us flocking to Obama really pissed me off, too.  I think that the race-baiting will become an issue if the Obama campaign lets it become one.  He needs to make sure his surrogates keep (read:  Jesse Jackson Jr) keep their mouths shut.  Somebody should also send Bob Herbert on a nice, long six month vacation to Antarctica.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:12:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a lot of hard feelings. (none / 0)

Yeah, but the problem is that the genie's already out of the bottle. JJ Jr's statements after NH I'm sure will be foisted upon us repeatedly before Nov. Obama didn't think ahead.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:27:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a lot of hard feelings. (2.00 / 1)

His comments were directed at Hillary, not John McCain.  As long as he keeps his mouth shut, I think we'll be okay.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:10:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a lot of hard feelings. (none / 0)

It won't matter. The GOP is going to remind voters over and over again how Obama and his campaign have treated Hillary. The JJ Jr tape is a good one that they will probably use. Go check out some websites and you'll see what they are planning.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:18:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Concern troll. (1.50 / 4)


by turtlescrubber on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:25:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a lot of hard feelings. (none / 0)

Good. The Democrats will remind everyone how the Republicans treated Hillary.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 06:16:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a lot of hard feelings. (none / 0)

Treated her, mind you, when she wasn't even running for office.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 06:16:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a lot of hard feelings. (none / 0)

There is so much hate from some people. So very much hate and anger that they would rather cut off their hand than let go of it.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 06:18:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What will that accomplish? (2.00 / 1)

Those nasty, tired right-wing smears were adopted by many democrats during this primary.  I read this quote from Rush Limbaugh recently:

"Millions of Americans are thrilled that the  
  Clintons are almost finished. We are thisclose
  to the house falling on the Wicked Witch."

It occured to me that I've read things like this on kos, du, americablog and huffington.  Some democrats hate the Clintons as much as republicans do.  


by half nelson on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:59:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's so sad. (2.00 / 1)

That hatred is about the haters, not the hated.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:40:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a lot of hard feelings. (none / 0)

I see it as being similar to people who say, "That's gay."  They're not homophobic, but when I hear that, it really bothers me.  It does, but I don't say anything, because I understand what they mean.

Totally OT, but when I hear someone (usually a teenager) use "gay" to mean "stupid" or "lame" I usually respond by saying "oh, so you mean it's actually homosexual?"  They usually look confused and then respond with some sort of clarification: "no, I mean it's dumb."  That way, I call them on the misuse of the term "gay" without being too unpleasant or confrontational.  Usually, people stop saying it just to avoid having to explain it to me again--and it makes them more conscious of their choice of words.


by Captain Bathrobe on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 03:09:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I have a lot of hard feelings. (2.00 / 1)

I'm a high school teacher and I've often heard things like, "That test is so gay" or "That class is so gay."  I always something like, "You took a homosexual test?  How did you know the test was gay?  Was it printed on pink paper?  Were their rainbows printed on the back?  Did you the urge to sing It's Raining Men after it you were finished?


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:48:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

It's unfortunate but Obama has passively agressively encouraged this kind of stuff

Interesting construction, along the lines of "When did you stop beating your wife?"

But there's no way to persuade people desperate to see themselves as victims that their candidate lost because of her votes and her record.

She was judged in this campaign, not as a woman, but as a politician.

I guess accepting that reality,  taking that responsibility-by-proxy, so to speak, is too much for some people.


by BlueinColorado on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:01:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Obama is the one who needs to take responsibility. He is the one responsible for dividing the party. I still can't believe that Obama supporters are continuing to blame someone else for his shortcomings.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:08:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

and I can't believe that neither Clinton nor her supporters  are willing to acknowledge that her Iraq vote and Liebermanism is what made it possible for Obama to beat her in a fair fight. ( Notice how that includes all the MSM big feet like Broder and Freidman who agreed with her on AUMF?)

But it's so much easier to whine about Obama and deny responsibility. To storm out of the party with a slammed door and the delusion of being a noble victim.

I've never understood this peculiar brand of "feminism" that advocates Hillary Clinton not be held accountable for her record because she's a woman.


by BlueinColorado on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:13:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (1.00 / 2)

Good grief. This is the problem with most Obama supporters. They only care about the AUMF and are totally blind to his huge electoral problems in Nov. Was taking votes away and giving them to Obama fair? A candidate too lazy to even compete? Don't think McCain isn't going to remind everyone about how Obama wouldnt' even stand up for the voters in MI.

Once again, your Obama apologia doesn't cut it. When is he going to take responsibility for the race baiting? When is he going to take responsbility for his divisive statements? When is he going to quit blaming Hillary for his electoral problems? It's hysterical that Obama is a "unity" candidate that can't even unite his own party. A unity candidate so divisive that he's driving tons of voters away from the party.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:24:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (1.00 / 2)

Yowza. You didn't just fall through the looking glass, you keep going back to jump through it again and again and again.

A candidate too lazy to even compete?

That really is pathetic.  I can't argue with a delusional fantasist drunk on victimology.


by BlueinColorado on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:28:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Was taking votes away and giving them to Obama fair?

Hillary Clinton agreed to agreed to, and even endorsed the DNC's decision on MI and FL. She agreed to ZERO delegates in both and flip-flopped when she started losing. By flip flopping she gained net delegates. And if she got everything she wanted she STILL would have lost.

Also, what about Obama supporters who only picked Clinton because she was their favorite of the names left on the ballot? Fuck them, right? What about Edwards supporters who only picked Clinton because she was their favorite of the names left on the ballot? Fuck them, right? What about Biden supporters who only picked Clinton because she was their favorite of the names left on the ballot? Fuck them, right? What about Richardson supporters who only picked Clinton because she was their favorite of the names left on the ballot? Fuck them, right?

A candidate too lazy to even compete?

I know. The way Clinton signed that agreement NOT to participate in MI and FL. How lazy.
 


Gobama!
by USArmyParatrooper on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:07:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

TOO LAZY?!?!?!?!

This about the only candidate to actively mount campaigns in 48 states?! And trying to contrast it with the campaign who had plans to SKIP Iowa before they got outed prematurely because it would be.... a waste of time and money. For the record, they were probably right. But that's much more lazy.

Furthermore, being from Georgia, you of ALL people should be aware that HIllary had big electoral problems. I was! I had no plans to vote for her. My family had no plans to vote for her. Only ONE of my friends had plans to vote for her. She could not have been beaten if she wasn't already vulnerable. She appears quite the strong candidate now, but it's revisionist history to claim she always was or that she still would be if she had clinched it back in February.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 06:02:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

You make no sense.  None.  I don't even know what you are talking about.  Not holding Hillary responsible for a biased media, sexist bashing, having the race card played against her, having the DNC set her up?  Huh?  Is there stuff she did wrong that she is responsible for?  Yes absolutely - but not that other stuff.  That lays at others feet who so far show no willingness to accept their responsibility.


by emmasaint on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:02:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

/ having the DNC set her up?/

Good lord.

Are you talking about the Florida and Michigan sanctions she endorsed when she thought she could win without them?

I know they say even paranoids have enemies, but, in this case, it's just paranoia.


by BlueinColorado on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:26:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Yeah, I don't know.

There's a lot of selective perception here.

I don't notice too many Hillary supporters accusing Nancy Pelosi of sexism, even though she was easily as instrumental as Howard Dean in trying to find an end to the primaries.


by Bush Bites on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:09:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (1.33 / 3)

Well I'm not accusing Howard Dean of sexism either. Obama, Cohen and some others definitely come off as rabid sexists. Not every criticism of Hillary is considered sexist, at least by me.

Howard Deans problem is that he has shown zero leadership abilities the entire primary. Donna Brazille is a disaster with her threats and then telling people not to show up to vote and telling Dems they don't need our votes. Where was Obama or Dean on silencing Donna?  Her constant Obama apologia really ticked lots of people off too.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:18:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 3)

Oh, come on... Our brilliant candidate lost the primary and was treated in a most unfair way by the party and the media. It sucks. It effing sucks. I know. But it is what it is.

So let it go for now. And remember that a lot of feelings would have been similar the other way around had we won.

In any case we will join the other half of the party and elect a Democratic President this fall!


Re-elect the President in 2012
by DemAC on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:26:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (1.33 / 3)

The problem is larger than Hillary. That's the point that people keep missing. It's not about Hillary in the end it's about Obama. Obama is the nominee not Hillary. Obama is the one that is going to have to solve his problems and quit blaming Hillary. Even after she is out they can't seem to stop. It's like a drug to the Obama campaign.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:29:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 2)

I know there's no real point in asking, but I have to:

Obama is the one that is going to have to solve his problems and quit blaming Hillary. Even after she is out they can't seem to stop. It's like a drug to the Obama campaign.

What in the hell are you talking about? What has Obama "blamed Hillary for? I'll make it easy for you, since you say "Even after she is out", it should be real easy for you to find all kinds of links and quotes that demonstrate Obama "blaming Hillary" for.... something.... in the last twenty-four hours?

Cause you're real rational and you deal in facts and stuff.


by BlueinColorado on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:45:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (1.00 / 1)

The Hillary bashing by the Obama campaign. The smears they have put out in the press. Look no further than pscyhodrew's diary where Doug Wilder is quoted in today's NYT.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:08:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

I don't think we ARE missing the point. The point you are missing is that Clinton has conceded. She will not win. She will not try to win.

But if you want to talk about truly missing the point, let's start with the Hillary supporters who refuse to acknowledge that maybe, just maybe, she was the one responsible for her own loss. WE can accept that Obama is responsible for his political destiny. We would like reciprocation.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 06:10:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (1.50 / 2)

I'm in full realization of Hillary situation. The fact is that Obama still has a huge problem that he hasn't dealt with. Oh fig, what do I care. I'm tired of trying to tell you guys what is coming down the pike. You don't really want to listen to any thing other than rah! rah! Obama!! he's going to win 50 states and 65% of the vote in Nov. Whatever.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 07:11:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

But we know!! I would be greatly disappointed if Obama had no plan to deal with this, but I think he does. Meanwhile, McCain and the GOP are completely relying on a meltdown.

I want to hear concerns. BELIEVE ME, I want to hear concerns. I especially want to hear about new concerns. But I can't trust anybody who can't even make it five minutes without insulting the man or the people who support his bid.


"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."
by vcalzone on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 07:43:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

I think Obama supporters are well aware of "what's coming down the pike". The silly fantasy about November was the "She's been vetted! It's old news! Nobody cares!" Clinton supporters were dreaming about.

I didn't support Obama only because he was the stronger candidate against McCain, but Hillary Clinton never stood a chance against a real opponent, rather than one fighting with one hand tied behind his back.


by BlueinColorado on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:14:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I have empathy for real Clinton suporters. (2.00 / 2)

But none for republicants pretending to be, and using it as a cover to attack the Democratic nominee.


Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.
by Freespeechzone on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:54:34 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Just ask the Repubs when the last time was they had a woman on their ticket.

Ask them when the last time was they had a female front runner.

Ask them why didn't have a female Speaker of the House.

Todd-Whitman is the most disingenuous creep I've ever seen.

She actually explored running this time out, but decided she didn't have a chance unless she projected some kind of Liddy Dole "I'll lead the country and bake cookies too" persona.


by Bush Bites on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 12:56:19 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Todd-Whitman is the most disingenuous creep I've ever seen

one of the long line of 'moderate' Republicans who helped Bush get elected, then noticed the Bush-Cheney-Rove administration was psychotic and dangerous after BCR used them and dumped them.


by BlueinColorado on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:03:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Wasn't she also the head of the EPA after 9/11 when they declared that the air around Ground Zero was safe?
And now we have thousands of emergency workers and volunteers suffering from respiratory problems.

"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:26:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Truth hurts, huh? (2.00 / 2)

These things happen to be true.  So, what are you going to do about it is the question?  Are we suppose to ignore these facts just b/c Republicans are speaking them?  Many of  us have been making the same arguments for months now.  Obama didn't lift a finger to combat these problems then and I'm not lifting a finger to smooth it over now.

He'll get my vote, but he can suck my toe.


On the train thanks to HRC...
by BRockNYC on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:02:08 PM EST

If real unity (1.66 / 3)

is what is wanted then more needs to be done than to simply try to rally against the Republican machine that we have warned you all about for over a year now.  The DNC needs reform, the primary process needs reform and the media needs to pay a price for their bias.  The Obama followers can start with the media.  

Join us in boycotting Keith Olbermann for beginners.  Tweety is too easy.


On the train thanks to HRC...
by BRockNYC on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:05:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Quote of the day! (none / 0)

He'll get my vote, but he can suck my toe.

I'm speechless!


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:06:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Truth hurts, huh? (none / 0)

Kinky.


by rfahey22 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:17:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Great find.  The faux-concern is nauseating.


by rfahey22 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:17:34 PM EST

list is correct: (none / 0)

yes she is
smarter, stronger, more assertive, rational and competent.
And Democrats do not like smart strong women for sure.
She did not lose: RBC and Supers stole it from her.
Landslide of lies
by engels on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:17:44 PM EST

Re: list is correct: (none / 0)

The supers can base their votes upon whatever criteria they choose.  That is their right as superdelegates.  I wish that they had chosen differently, but they didn't.

Under the rules of our party, Obama won.  The Michigan decision was BS, but it didn't matter, in the end.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:41:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: list is correct: (none / 0)

yes she is
smarter, stronger, more assertive, rational and competent.
And Democrats do not like smart strong women for sure.

A. U. M. F.

Square that vote with "smarter... more rational and competent".

Then we'll talk about Kyl-Lieberman, "obliterate", her sneering contempt for those of us who were right when she was wrong, Mark Penn, Patty Solis Doyle, Lanny Davis, a thiry million dollar campaign debt and all the other indisputable evidence of her rational intelligence and competence.


by BlueinColorado on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 01:48:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't care if I'm alont here. (none / 0)

I absolutely agree with her vote on Kyl-Lieberman.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:04:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't care if I'm alont here. (none / 0)

Obama now agrees with it too. LOL. Or so he told AIPAC the other day.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:09:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't care if I'm alont here. (none / 0)

Yeah - Mr. Wonderful didn't bother to vote did he?  I wonder why?  Maybe he just pushed the wrong button...or maybe yet again he didn't want to take a stand on anything that matters....


by emmasaint on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:06:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't care if I'm alont here. (none / 0)

I think people would prefer if you actually made an argument, instead of insulting nicknames and innuendos.

Because you, of course, would not tolerate Hillary Clinton being talked about that way.


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:10:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't care if I'm alont here. (none / 0)

Okay. But you didn't come to that conclusion, I gather, because of her gender.

I didn't decide it was one of the most bone-headed votes she and 22 or 23 other Dems made since the AUMF based on her gender either.


by BlueinColorado on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:13:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't care if I'm alont here. (none / 0)

Oh no, not at all.  I agree with that vote because it was good amendment.  I sent a message to Iran without giving the president any additional authority.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:24:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Democratic division is the GOP's Hail Mary pass for 2008.  No way they can win on the issues or their recent record, Bush is stuck like a turd to their shoes and McCain can't rally the base let alone pull together the "Bush Coalition".  They've got nothing this year but desperation to campaign with so I would imagine any energy out there is being directed at dividing Democrats.  


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:36:54 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

I think MyDD has been on the right track (as has dkos) since June 3rd. We need to unify against the GOP.

Don't get fooled again by the GOP. Democrats are sexist? Please. No doubt there are certain Dems who are sexist, or racist, or homophobic.

Over the last 40 years, there has been one party consistently at the front of womens rights, civil
rights, reproductive rights, gay rights, children's rights, health care, economic justice, a fair judicial system, and environmental rationality. The Democratic Party.

Over the same time period, one party has consistently been against reproductive rights, gay rights, civil rights, universal health care, and battling against economic and judicial fairness, and denying science and climate change. The GOP.

We know have a GOP nominee who opposes universal health care, opposes reproductive rights, opposes gay rights, votes against SCHIP, thinks the free market can solve global warming, want more Constitution shredding judges on the Supreme Court, is for extending tax cuts for the rich, pro-torture, pro-war, pro-domestic spying, and by the way, called his own wife a "cunt."

If you are so ticked that your candidate did not win (and I think it had more to do with ignoring caucus states and not planning for after Feb. 5 than any vast left-wing anti-woman bias) that you will vote against the party that represents everything (policy wise) that you believe in, then please tell me why are you a democrat?

I realize its a bit early to ask some hard core supporters to jump enthusiastically on the Obama bandwagon after a long and grueling primary fight.

But I have to say, from someone who went Kucinich>Edwards>Obama, I think assertions that Hillary's treatment was the worst they've ever seen and the DNC was rigged against her are ridiculous and not based in reality. I think the commendable and inspiring loyalty of some supporters is blinding them to the truth.

Do people like Tweety and Schuster have a lot to answer for? Yes. But coverage of her was mostly positive when she was ahead. Do you think Obama didn't face some racism as well?. Do we still have sexism and racism problems in this country? Yes.
Who exactly was voting against Hillary because she was a women? Women? Went for Hillary. Latinos? Went for Hillary. White men? Went for Hillary. Older voters (more likely to be prejudiced)? Nope, went for Hillary.

Who does that leave? African Americans (who were leaning Hillary's way until February) and young people (who consistently are LESS liable to be prejudices). It just doesn't add up.

And blaming Obama for not doing, what exactly? I didn't exactly see HRC running to correct misperceptions about Obama being a Muslim (at least "not as far as I know"). Or making huge pro-civil rights speeches in KY and WVA.

As far as asking her to get out and the DNC being rigged and Nancy Pelosi, did anyone withing the party (save one) call for her to get out before the primaries were over? No. Do you seriously think if the shoe was on the other foot, and Clinton had the pledged delegate lead, and Obama was threatening to go to the convention (which would hurt the party), the DNC would have done it differently and said, by all means, go till August? Or that Clinton in that position would have done differently than Obama has, give the runner-up the theirsupporters some space and try to reach out to them.

Again, your loyalty and tenacity are commendable, but is this what you really think? If so, I fear it is blinding you to the truth.

And MI/FL should not have counted? They weren't contested. HRC, McAuliffe, and Iceks all agreed they shouldn't count. IMHO, they shouldn't have counted at all, though FL has a better beef than MI, as the GOP moved it up. How can you call yourself a democrat and simultaneously argue that an election without everyone's name on the ballot , that your candidate agreed shouldn't count, is valid?

And to top it off, it didn't matter, she'd have lost anyway.

Again, I hesitate to rehash old wounds, but I feel this must be said.

If this type of tenacity and loyalty can be harnessed for the campaign, the GOP must be shaking in their boots.

Indeed, they are. The GOP cannot stand against a united Democratic Party. For 40 years racial politics have provided them a solid south. Since Vietnam they've gotten away with a softy-lefty-weak on security fairy tale that is not true.

In this decade they've used gays, guns and religion to divide us and preserve their power.

Now that those are fading, they are switching to gender. Don't let them get away with it.

Our goals are withing our grasp: Health care, a sane environmental policy, fiscal responsibility, etc. Let's not be divided by people who really, don't give a shit about women's rights anyway.


by Searching For Pericles on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:40:44 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Here is another reason for no feminist to vote for John McCain, an article about how he really sees women:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/articl e-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously -left-behind.html


by ktmseattle on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 02:52:25 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (1.00 / 2)

The same thing should be said about Obama. Why would any self respecting woman vote for Obama? Frankly, it seems that both of them and their supporters are on the "who's worse" train.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 03:02:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

I respect myself quite a bit and I support Obama for all of these reasons:
http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/w omenissues

I don't support McCain for all of these reasons:
Everything mentioned in this diary (John McCain doesn't even have a women's issues page to link, just one on wanting to overturn Roe v Wade)


by mydoubled on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 03:12:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (1.00 / 1)

Well considering the fact that Obama seems to think that your minister should be making your decisions for you and the fact that he didn't think Roberts was a bad choice the Roe v. Wade argument is really a pretty poor one.

Besides, the balance of the court is already altered by Bush.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 03:15:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 2)

(Misposted this)

Obama never said anyone's minister should be making anyone's decisions for them.  So, point one, you are a liar.

2: Roberts stated he would not vote against the precedent of Roe v. Wade and Casey.  I'll chalk that one up to you not knowing much about Roberts.

Point the third and final: the make-up of the court can and must change eventually and most people believe it will be changing sooner rather than later.  If it changes within the next 4 years, as a woman and as a Democrat I want the new nominees to chosen by someone who appreciates that justices of the supreme court must respect both precedent and progressivism.  No other presidential nominee but Obama will offer that.


by mydoubled on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 03:29:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

You're thinking way too narrowly on this question.  

Do you know that the next president could have the chance to appoint between 3 to 6 justices over two terms?  

Do you know that most of the justices likely to retire in the next eight years are mostly liberal justices?

If Obama is president and picks 3 to 6 new justices, you could have a Court that not only protects the rights of women, but might actually expand them, too.  

On the other hand, if McCain is president and picks 3 to 6 new justices, we'll be lucky if his Court doesn't overrule Roe v. Wade, and even worse, you'll have a Court completely hostile to equality of any kind and more likely to sanction further government intrusion into privacy rights in the name of fighting the war on terror.  


by ProfessorReo on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 03:46:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Sorry, I must have missed the part where Barack Obama left his injured wife for a wealthy beer heiress....

Tell me, what kind of prizes do you get for your McPoints anyway?


MyDD & DailyKos -- The honeymoon may be over, but i still think we should grow old together.
by Mikeguyver on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 03:34:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Awesome diary psychodrew!


The Moose is on the loose. "And I scream at the top of my lungs, what's going on?"
by Hollede on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 03:28:05 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

Obama never said anyone's minister should be making anyone's decisions for them.  So, point one, you are a liar.

2: Roberts stated he would not vote against the precedent of Roe v. Wade and Casey.  I'll chalk that one up to you not knowing much about Roberts.

Point the third and final: the make-up of the court can and must change eventually and most people believe it will be changing sooner rather than later.  If it changes within the next 4 years, as a woman and as a Democrat I want the new nominees to chosen by someone who appreciates that justices of the supreme court must respect both precedent and progressivism.  No other presidential nominee but Obama will offer that.


by mydoubled on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 03:28:20 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

If you are worried about Roe V Wade...Abortion is a states issue, just like gay marriage. The judges you should be worried about are the state supreme court judges whose decisions may or may not be held up or heard by the Supreme Court.


by Justwords on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 03:37:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

I hear Hillary supporters threatening to vote for McCain often say that Obama has yet to "earn" their vote and support.  

My question is, what have John McCain and the republicans done to earn your vote?  Don't they also need to work for the support of Hillarycrats?  Is it enough that they agree that sexism destroyed Hillary's chances for president, even if they are anti-choice, have no healthcare plan to speak of, and is a male-dominated party?  

Here's a recent poll result for people to chew on.  Republicans were asked if McCain should choose a woman as vice president.  A whopping 13% said yes, and 87% of republicans said no, McCain should not pick a woman as VP.  

So, I ask again, what has McCain done to earn your vote?


by ProfessorReo on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 03:41:50 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

I am an uncommitted voter. Neither McCain nor Obama have done anything to earn my vote in 2008. I suspect they will both be trying very hard between now and November.

McCain is not evil like Bush/Cheney..there are policies I don't agree with. Obama is not evil like Bush/Cheney and he is yet to wishy washy on policies for me to agree to whatever it is he will eventually decide upon is HIS policy. November is a long way off. I have agreed with some of McCain's votes in the Senate and disagreed with some of Obama's.


by Justwords on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 03:32:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Nobody thought Bush was evil until he became president. Stupid maybe, but not evil.
I'm curious if you support McCain's embrace of GWB's executive powers?

A top adviser to Senator John McCain says Mr. McCain believes that President Bush's program of wiretapping without warrants was lawful, a position that appears to bring him into closer alignment with the sweeping theories of executive authority pushed by the Bush administration legal team.

In a letter posted online by National Review this week, the adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, said Mr. McCain believed that the Constitution gave Mr. Bush the power to authorize the National Security Agency to monitor Americans' international phone calls and e-mail without warrants, despite a 1978 federal statute that required court oversight of surveillance.

Mr. McCain believes that "neither the administration nor the telecoms need apologize for actions that most people, except for the A.C.L.U. and trial lawyers, understand were constitutional and appropriate in the wake of the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001," Mr. Holtz-Eakin wrote.


"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:36:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

McCain has done nothing to earn my vote nor has Obama.  I will either leave the top spot blank or for fun maybe vote for 3rd party candidate...maybe if there is a communist party candidate or something....whatever...


by emmasaint on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:08:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

What did Hillary Clinton do to earn your vote?  Both she and Obama are awfully similar on their positions.


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:12:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

As part of their strategy to divide us THEY (1.50 / 2)

1. Sent out emails to all the reporters saying that innocent comments from Bill and Hillary were in fact secret race-bating code words.

2. Conspired to not count the vote in FL and MI and they prevented a revote even though private funding was obtained to pay for it.

3. Said Hillary's comment about how campaigns have gone until June before, referencing her husband and Bobby Kennedy being assasinated in June, she was really crossing the line and communicating something omminous. They sent out emails of the wack-job Keith Olbermann and one of his special comments to all the reporters denouncing Clinton's comments.

4. Gave Obama delegates for MI despite the fact that he didn't receive one vote there and it didn't matter anyway.

5. Made Obama trash Clinton personally saying she represented old style politics, was devisve and would say or do anything to get elected. They trashed Clinton so bad personally that most of Obama's supporters think that Clinton compares unfavorably with Satan.

Yes, "they" have made it very difficult, if not impossible, for all too many Clinton supporters to vote for Obama.


by mmorang on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 03:53:19 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Well said.  If you're a dem, vote for the democratic nominee or you're a rotten egg.


by Democrat in Chicago on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 04:06:35 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

yes, they had to tell us that Obama was out golfing, not interested in hearing Hillary's speech for himself.  They'll tell us every disrespectful thing he does, and then his supporters will tell us that we don't deserve his respect and anyway he was entitled to a golf day, and that won't unite us.  


just say it: Medicare for All
by anna shane on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 04:14:51 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

He watched her speech online.


by mydoubled on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 04:56:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

the pugs said he was golfing.  They do want to divide us.  But, why wasn't that made public, why wasn't he filmed watching her speech, or was he.  


just say it: Medicare for All
by anna shane on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 05:02:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

The republicans were lying.  Obama did golf on Saturday, but he golfed early in the morning.  

Why wasn't he filmed watching the speech?  Uh, last time I checked, Obama wasn't a contestant on Big Brother and isn't subject to cameras 24/7.  Give the guy a break and let him have some privacy.  


by ProfessorReo on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 07:55:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Did you see the picture of him on his bike with that helmet?  Keep him away from the tanks!


by emmasaint on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:09:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

The republicans were lying.  Obama did golf on Saturday, but he golfed early in the morning.  

Why wasn't he filmed watching the speech?  Uh, last time I checked, Obama wasn't a contestant on Big Brother and isn't subject to cameras 24/7.  Give the guy a break and let him have some privacy.  


by ProfessorReo on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 07:56:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

but how sad is it that because... (2.00 / 2)

the republicans are actually calling out sexism and/or being sympathetic to her treatment in the media (whereas the dems are not).


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 04:46:58 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

"They" are not dividing us.

Democratic party has decided to commit political suicide. It is not the fault of republicans.

MSM has forced out all the viable Dem candidates from the race. This was not an accident. Edwards, Hillary were ridiculed 24/7. MSM has fawned over Obama throughout the campaign. They got what they wanted. Viable Dem candidates are gone. Dems are stuck with an unqualified candidate who is still unvetted with a closet chock full of scandals.

I and my entire family will be voting for McCain.

Obama will be defeated in November. It is going to be a McGovern size defeat.

Democrats will have no one but themselves to blame for the defeat. Either Edwards or Hillary could have one this race. But they allowed the MSM to manipulate the process. Now they are stuck with an unelectable candidate. This was a winnable election. Democrats blew it.


by DonB11 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 05:51:55 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

These comments from the GOP are just ridiculous.  McCain praising Hillary the last few days.  His female surrogates talking about sexism.

The GOP HATES Hillary.  They HATE her.  Where the hell was Christine Todd Whitman when McCain made that horrible joke about Chelsea in the 1990's?  Where was Heather Wilson's outrage when the VRWC was calling her Shrillary?  And John McCain?  Are you fucking kidding me?  This so-called Maverick voted to convict President Clinton in 1999.

It's bullshit.  These assholes are playing us.  Any respect I ever had for Gov. Whitman just disappeared.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:08:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Getting a bike? (none / 0)

With your McPoints?


MyDD & DailyKos -- The honeymoon may be over, but i still think we should grow old together.
by Mikeguyver on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 03:38:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

" we should understand that the media is not our friend."

The media has been Obama's friend. He wouldn't be where he is without the worshipful coverage by the media and their constant trashing of Edwards and Hillary.

Things are about to change though. The media succeeded in eliminating qualified Dem candidates. Dems are now stuck with Obama. And the media will finally start vetting him. It is not going to be pretty.


by DonB11 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 05:56:55 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Now they have two media darlings.  Who do you think is going to get better coverage?  The maverick who calls them "his base" or the new black guy with the funny name?  Methinks that the media primary has already been won by John McCain.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:11:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

"Now they have two media darlings.  Who do you think is going to get better coverage?"

I have been wondering about it. They have gone gaga over Obama but I think they will go back to their first love McCain.  

Their Obama love is driven by their Hillary hate. With her out of the race they will go back to fawning over McCain.


by DonB11 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:31:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It sounds an awful lot like (none / 0)

Heather Wilson and Christine Whitman have been reading the recommended diary list on MyDD for the past couple of months.


by Dumbo on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 05:58:36 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (1.66 / 3)

I hope Hillary does not accept a VP slot.

Obama is going down to defeat in November. If she is on the ticket she will be blamed for it. The MSM will lynch her again and blame her for Obama's defeat.

She did her duty. She endorsed him. She had no choice. She should follow Reagan's 1976 example. Stay the hell away from the campaign. Obama cult has already beens signally that they don't need her or her husband. She should keep away. Say a few polite things about unity. Help elect a Dem congress. Watch Obama go down to defeat and DNC discredited. Hold onto her base and organize for 2012.


by DonB11 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 06:05:37 PM EST

They'll blame her no matter what. (2.00 / 1)

On the ticket or not.  That's another reason we should follow Hillary's lead and support Senator Obama.


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 08:17:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

boy don do you ever sound like a pessimistic asshole...the noquarter trolls have been released from the sanitarium


Hillary-The corporate candidate
by cdnminer on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:52:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (1.50 / 2)

Another thing; you are not going to see either Bill or Hillary say anything negative about John McCain during this campaign. Clintons are good friends with McCain. They like him. Hillary is friends with Cindy.

So you will see Hillary saying a few polite things about unity because she has to but she won't go after McCain. She knows the country is better of with a President McCain and a Dem congress. She has a good working relationship with McCain and she can work with him to pass bipartisan legislation in Congress.


by DonB11 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 06:10:04 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

If by negative, you mean that the Clintons will point out the differences in issues and why Obama's (or the Democrats are so much better), been there and doing that already. If you mean by negative, they will attack his character, his age, his sanity or call him stupid names like McSame, McBush, McLame or anything other than his given name- you are right. The loser, whether Obama or McCain will return to the Senate and McCain crosses over the isle. They will criticise his policies, but they will not criticise the man.
I do not think this amounts to an endorsement of McCain over Obama, but one thing we can agree on is that increasing the majority of Congress into a veto proof Democratic congress is more important that who we call president.

by Justwords on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 03:12:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 1)

"On the other hand, if McCain is president and picks 3 to 6 new justices, we'll be lucky if his Court doesn't overrule Roe v. Wade,"

Not again. We hear this crap in election after election.

Kerry kept repeating roe v wade during the 2004 election and guess what Bush got as much or more female votes than Kerry. He beat Kerry handily among white women.

I hope Roe v Wade gets overturned. It would be the best thing for liberals. The GOP would be forced by its base to choose between outlawing abortionis or losing elections.

Besides with a Dem majority McCain won't be able to appoint lunatic judges. And don't forget McCain is not in the pocket of the religious right. He has spit in their faces many times.


by DonB11 on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 06:16:58 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

You conveniently ignore the rest of my post.  Losing Roe is the least of the problems if McCain appoints 6 justices.  Also, people ignored Kerry's Supreme Court concerns, and look what happened - Bush appointed two ultra conservatives to the Court.  Fear confirmed.  

And the fact that McCain is not in the pocket of the religious right is a reason to fear that he'll pander to them in his Court nominations, because that's the constituency that cares most about Court nominations.  He knows he won't be able to win re-election without securing the base, so he'll be under tremendous pressure to appoint someone to their liking.  Look what he did this year, pandering to lunatic pastors like Hagee.  

Finally, having a democratic majority in the Senate didn't stop Bush from nominating and pushing through Alito and Roberts.  


by ProfessorReo on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 07:53:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

Ummm.. you are misinformed. Samuel Alito and John Roberts were appointed when the Republican had their majority.

Roe v Wade is already dead. If you look at many of the previous Supreme Court rulings, they already had overturn the contents in Roe v Wade. It's just that 'Roe v Wade' is not overturned yet and therefore it makes no difference. Furthermore Mc Cain is more to having a centrist position that we would like to inform others. Get your facts right. Going against McCain is one thing, but spreading false rumors about him is another.

And finally there will only be 2 justices retiring and they will retire only if we have a democrat President.


by stevent on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 09:38:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

"Furthermore Mc Cain is more to having a centrist position that we would like to inform others."

We?  You mean you and your fellow republicans?  

And, why don't you go to the website for NARAL, Planned Parenthood, NOW, and tell them the crap you're telling about how Roe is already dead and see how they respond.  

And are you psychic?  Is that how you know only 2 justices will be retiring and only if a democrat is president?  Justice Stevens is 88.  Unless he can will himself to live for at least 8 years, it's beyond silliness for someone like you to assert foolish nonsense such as justices will only retire with a "democrat president."

You don't deserve any gold stars from McCain, because your trolling is atrocious.  


by ProfessorReo on Sun Jun 08, 2008 at 10:34:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mojo to conteract (none / 0)

I don't think your comment was troll-worthy.

You are right in a way.  If Roe v. Wade were overturned, it would kick it back to the states. Northern states would immediately pass legislation very similar to Roe.

The Southern states would then have a tough choice to make. And most of us know that pissing off women is not a good way to go.

Actually, many Southern states have probably changed since Roe was argued.


by WolfmanJack on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:24:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Reap what you have all sown during these past (none / 0)

months! You're right to be worried. There's a million women march in the planning for the Denver convention.  As I constantly posted here, for me, it is all about his obscene refusal to advocate for mandated health care, simply to be more acceptable to the reps and inds and it seems I'm not the only one who feels that way:

www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/editorial/o utlook/5823929.html

WHERE'S THE COMMITMENT TO UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE?

Froma Harrop laments that, with Hillary Clinton gone from the race, no one is pledged to universal care. Are you listening, Barack Obama?

By FROMA HARROP

A remarkable thing just happened in the people's party. Democrats have chosen a candidate, in the year 2008, who does not have a plan for universal health coverage. Barack Obama caresses the words "universal coverage" almost hourly, but his proposal offers nothing of the kind -- unlike the plans of Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and other Democratic hopefuls.

Most striking, the man who showed such timidity on health care became the hero of ardent progressives. So forgiving was their love of Mr. Big that they virtually abandoned what should have been the Democrats' most potent promise: medical coverage for all.

This is political opportunity lost. In a new CNN/Opinion Research Corp. poll, 49 percent of registered voters list the economy as their No. 1 issue, with the Iraq war second at 19 percent. Health care comes in a close third at 14 percent.

more.....


by suzieg on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 05:22:14 AM EST

Too bad (none / 0)

the economy only began to ecipse the war as the most important issue in March.  Had it happened at the beginning of the year, Clinton would have been our nominee.


by activatedbybush on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:54:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A million women? (none / 0)

I doubt it.  The two candidates split women overall, and that was only because Hillary Clinton held a monstrous lead among white women over 65.  Go under 65 and women prefer Obama.

She doesn't have a claim to women any more than he does.  Unless - again - you mean "white women over 65".

But whatever their reason is, universal health care is not it.  Edwards had the most progressive plan, and his supporters aren't talking about how great McCain is.


When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?
by Jess81 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 05:21:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (2.00 / 2)

Yep.............Clinton supporters have been warning about this for months.  Of course we have been ignored, ridiculed, and dismissed. We have been pushed away from DailyKos and Huffington Post  with an unwillingness to even entertain our thoughts.

Well....Democrats......this is what you get.....

I have to throw Kudos to the Republicans.  At least they were listening!

How sad is that?
jan


by jbohio on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 07:25:24 AM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

From MLK'S Last speech:

"Now, what does all of this mean in this great period of history? It means that we've got to stay together. We've got to stay together and maintain unity. You know, whenever Pharaoh wanted to prolong the period of slavery in Egypt, he had a favorite, favorite formula for doing it. What was that? He kept the slaves fighting among themselves. But whenever the slaves get together, something happens in Pharaoh's court, and he cannot hold the slaves in slavery. When the slaves get together, that's the beginning of getting out of slavery. Now let us maintain unity." Martin Luther King, "I've Been to the Mountaintop," April 3rd, 1968.

"1968-2008 Forty Years"
http://msa4.wordpress.com/

P.S.  Having been thru 1968, I suggest that we be very careful about what is in store for us if the Democratic Party divides.


Mitchell Aboulafia
by Mitchell A on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 02:53:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Plan (none / 0)

Should McCain choose "a woman" as a running mate is not a good question.

Obviously, it depends on which specific woman.

Should he choose "a black"? (see how tacky that sounds)

Obviously it depends on which "black"

I imagine Kay bailey Hutchinson of Texas is on his short-list. But he, just like Obama, has to choose the best person for the job.


by WolfmanJack on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:19:24 PM EST

Re: The Plan (none / 0)

we are now stuck with the nominee chosen by college kids and blacks,

who has very little appeal to whites over 40.

better make sure those college kids aren't "on break" like they were in New Hampshire. And that they remember to register a month or so in advance as most states require.  And that they aren't "tired of politics" five months from now.


by WolfmanJack on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 12:31:25 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

And the MSM is enabling them.  Just last week on NPR's Morning Edition the reporter included a comment from a supposed HRC supporter claiming that she was now going to vote for McCain, that she had gone from being a liberal Democrat to a conservative Republican overnight.

No other voters' comments were heard, and the pure stupidity of that comment was not questioned.  It was as blatant an attemp to sway disgruntled HRC voters as I've ever heard.  It was infuriating to have heard it on NPR.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 01:04:46 PM EST

Re: The Plan to Divide Us (none / 0)

From MLK'S Last speech:

"Now, what does all of this mean in this great period of history? It means that we've got to stay together. We've got to stay together and maintain unity. You know, whenever Pharaoh wanted to prolong the period of slavery in Egypt, he had a favorite, favorite formula for doing it. What was that? He kept the slaves fighting among themselves. But whenever the slaves get together, something happens in Pharaoh's court, and he cannot hold the slaves in slavery. When the slaves get together, that's the beginning of getting out of slavery. Now let us maintain unity." Martin Luther King, "I've Been to the Mountaintop," April 3rd, 1968.

"1968-2008 Forty Years"
http://msa4.wordpress.com/

P.S.  Having been thru 1968, I suggest that we be very careful about what is in store for us if the Democratic Party divides.


Mitchell Aboulafia
by Mitchell A on Mon Jun 09, 2008 at 02:55:36 PM EST


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