MyDD :: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread

Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread

by Todd Beeton, Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 10:33:10 PM EST

Tomorrow, Hillary Clinton will thank supporters, congratulate Barack Obama and endorse him for president. From her e-mail the other night:

On Saturday, I will extend my congratulations to Senator Obama and my support for his candidacy. This has been a long and hard-fought campaign, but as I have always said, my differences with Senator Obama are small compared to the differences we have with Senator McCain and the Republicans.

I have said throughout the campaign that I would strongly support Senator Obama if he were the Democratic Party's nominee, and I intend to deliver on that promise. [...]

I will be speaking on Saturday about how together we can rally the party behind Senator Obama. The stakes are too high and the task before us too important to do otherwise.

She will be speaking at 12pm EDT at the National Building Museum, located at 401 F Street, NW, Washington, D.C. Go HERE for a ticket. I believe Jonathan will be liveblogging it from the venue.

Today, on the eve of Hillary Clinton's concession speech, the word of the day for Democrats is unity.

This afternoon, the Obama campaign sent out a fundraising ask that paid tribute to Hillary's campaign:

I'm sure you've heard that Hillary Clinton is suspending her campaign and announcing her support for Barack. We all owe Senator Clinton -- and her supporters -- a great deal of respect for running an incredible campaign and strengthening our party in all 50 states.

A bit later, I received this from Wes Clark, one of Hillary Clinton's staunchest supporters:

Now I am asking you to come together and make sure Barack Obama is our next president. This is a critical mission.

Hillary Clinton ran an amazing race. She inspired millions. Our party is a better party because of her campaign, and our nation is a better nation because of her service. She is and will always be a friend whom I admire. [...]

It's time our party comes together to stand behind Senator Obama as we move forward in this election season.

And this evening, Chelsea Clinton addressed the Texas state convention and delivered a message that can only be seen as a preview of her mother's speech tomorrow:

Chelsea Clinton delivered a message to convention delegates from her mother: Thank you for all the support - and now it's time to rally behind Sen. Barack Obama.

Obama, as everyone surely knows, narrowly defeated Hillary Clinton for the Democratic presidential nomination.

"My mother wanted me to be very clear - we are going to united," Chelsea told Texas Democrats.

Her mother, she noted, will be endorsing her formal rival tomorrow. Hillary Clinton will reaffirm "her life-long commitment to support and elect Democrats and Sen. Obama in November," the younger Clinton said.

And how can we forget linfar, who brings her own brand of unity to the rec list:

But the campaign is Over. It is time to move on. I am moving on and this is my first step. [...]

So here's to Hillary Clinton-- the first woman to win nearly 18 million votes in a Democratic Party primary--and to her concession speech and a united Democratic Party.

It was one hulluva goddamn fight!

Use this as an open thread to pay tribute to Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and the historic race we've witnessed this year, a contest that will officially come to a close tomorrow. But we all know it's not the last we'll see of Hillary Clinton this year. After all, as Terry McCauliffe promised:

"She will do anything. She has made that clear. She will do anything she can to help Barack Obama, travel if he wants her to travel everyday she will do that," McAuliffe told reporters outside of Clinton's Washington DC home Friday, as hundreds of staffers were gathering at the house for a final party.

Tags: 2008 presidential election, democratic nomination, hillary clinton, unity (all tags)

Permalink :: 184 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 3)

Now that's some hot Friday night unity. Oh yeah.

Fight the Smears!

by Lettuce on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 10:34:08 PM EST

Hot Dem on Dem action? (2.00 / 1)

Nice.

Some people will still complain that Hillary is hogging too much of the spotlight because the story is still so much about her. She could have (probably should have) done this speech on Tuesday. But it's possible that dragging it out, creating even more tension and getting even more attention for this speech could really pay off.

If she can nail this thing tomorrow, it could really provide a bump as we get into the grind against the GOP. ;)

by Sun Dog on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 10:38:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hot Dem on Dem action? (2.00 / 2)

Hey, I'm the biggest Hillary "no she di'int"-er in the book, and I think this is great. Sure, more love on Tuesday would have been nice, but John McSame did a wonderful job of overshadowing both him AND her with his GREEN SCREEN of AWESOME and so the night was lost anyway.

This will be nice, and what else is there to do on a Saturday amidst the season's first gripping heat wave? Hydrate?

Bah -- try, Unitydrate... all you need is some H2O. Hillary-to-Obama. Oh yeah.

Fight the Smears!

by Lettuce on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 10:43:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

heat wave? (none / 0)

Where? I am in WA and it is friggin cold and rainy... more than usual!

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 10:51:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: heat wave? (2.00 / 1)

Send us your rain, PLEASE.
Its 95 here in Atlanta with no rain in sight now. We are still in drought and we need to get our lakes filled up.

I would be happy to get your cold and rainy. You can have my Air Conditioning bill. Deal?

by monkeyga on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:20:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: heat wave? (2.00 / 1)

We're starting to stack sand bags here in Iowa. The corps keeps opening the dam upriver from Iowa City to try to stay ahead of the rising reservoir. So the river is very high with nowhere to go and it seems like the res is getting close to the spillway anyway.

1993, the Great Flood as it's called here was the only year it went over but we could easily be heading for a repeat.

I'm surprised that down in GA you're that dry. The jetstream must just be stuck in a rut.

Good luck.

by Sun Dog on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:30:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow (2.00 / 1)

I remember all those images of 1993, and of course how FEMA actually worked back then.

Maybe you can get all your fellow Iowans to blow to the south and move the clouds our way.

by monkeyga on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:42:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Wow (2.00 / 2)

and it really galls me to hear dumbaya bray about Burma turning aid away when he did exactly the same after Katrina multiple times

by zerosumgame on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:59:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

OT: Letters From Americans (none / 0)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie -sanders/the-collapse-of-the-middl_b_105 658.html

EXCERPT

The Collapse of the Middle Class, Letters from Vermont and America
Senator Bernie Sanders

These e-mails tell the stories of working families unable to keep their homes warm in the winter; workers worried about whether they'll be able to fill their gas tank to get to their jobs; and seniors, who spent their entire lives working, now wondering how they'll survive in old age. They describe the pain and disappointments that parents feel as they are unable to save money for their kids' college education, and the dread of people who live without health insurance.

In order to try and break through the complacency and isolation inside the Washington Beltway, I have read some of these stories on the floor of the Senate. I also assembled some of them in a booklet that I have distributed to every other senator because it is imperative that Congress and the corporate media understand the painful reality facing the middle class today so that we can develop the appropriate public policy to address this crisis.

The letters are not easy to read.

"We only eat two meals a day to conserve," one e-mail said. "My husband and I are very nervous about what will happen to us when we are old," wrote a woman from Vermont. "The pennies have all but dried up....Today I am sad, broken, and very discouraged," lamented another. "Some nights we eat cereal and toast for dinner because that's all I have." One man summed it up this way: "My mortgage is behind, we are at risk for foreclosure, and I can't keep up with my car payments."

Many of the e-mails have been about gasoline prices. "How devastating it has been for folks who travel great distances to get to their cancer treatment," one wrote. "I don't go to church many Sundays, because the gasoline is too expensive to drive there," said another. One man put it this way: "It costs me so much money in gas that my wife and I live on $6 per day to eat."

In straightforward, plan language, the e-mails tell a truth that all the economic statistics sanitize. "We are barely staying afloat," is how one writer summed it up.

by dearreader on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:08:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hot Dem on Dem action? (2.00 / 1)

Wow! H-to-O! Is this why Sen Feinstein gave them 'just' water? Huge symbolic significance! This is the stuff legends are made of! As for McCain's green background, it no doubt reveals a secret adhesion to Islam?

by french imp on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:01:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

Jonathan: Be careful. If you're liveblogging from the National Building Museum, make sure your address is correct. John McCain and his crafty crew of slogan and graphic design co-opters, are holding a rally of their own at the exact same time with Clillary Hilton, one of the less-impressive heiress-u-tants at the same time at the National Museum Building, on J street, behind that suspicious looking van, and her support for Bail Organa is really less newsworthy.

Unity makes me loopy.

Fight the Smears!

by Lettuce on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 10:39:17 PM EST

building and location map (none / 0)

http://www.visitingdc.com/washington-dc/ building-museum-washington-dc.htm

across the street from GAO building; take good notes :-)

by dearreader on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:51:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Now come on Todd (2.00 / 2)

just because some "people" talk like she is suspending her campaign doesn't really mean she is. She has not actually said "I give!" and smacked her hand on the mat yet. Right?

Now how could you possibly believe people like... Wes Clark or that damn kid Chelsea Clinton... how? ;)

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 10:39:35 PM EST

Oh... (2.00 / 3)

and linfar! You "trust" her!? :)

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 10:41:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh... (none / 0)

It is better to suffer wrong than to do it, and happier to be sometimes cheated than not to trust.

Samuel Johnson

by Shaun Appleby on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:53:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh... (none / 0)

Not sure what that quote means in regards to my snarky little fun comment?

Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:34:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh... (none / 0)

Oh, sorry... Just sayin' it's better to err on the side of trust, didn't quite get the snarky part.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:56:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh... (none / 0)

It is better to suffer wrong than to do it, and happier to be sometimes cheated than not to trust.

Samuel Johnson

He was so awesome in "The Long Kiss Goodnight."

I'm only a click away

by juliewolf on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:14:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh... (none / 0)

Ha.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:34:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

All the best, Hillary (2.00 / 5)

Hillary, I hope you understand that while you may not be President this cycle - and I think your election against McCain would have been easier by half than a run against Obama - you will go down in history. Half the party is in love with you - a few so much so they want to stop Obama just to spite him for beating you. The other half respects you, feared you, and knows we could really, really use your help winning in November. It's shocking - truly shocking - that your run should coincide with Obama's, as you are both so strong, it was truly an embarrassment of riches, and it is very much to your credit that turnout this year has been sky high.

Good luck, God Bless, and Thank you for your loyalty, honor, and humility.

by mattw on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 10:43:56 PM EST

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 2)

I am so pleased to see this happening here.

BTW, Clinton has picked a truly beautiful spot. I've visited that building and it's very, very nice.

I salute Hillary Clinton and her supporters.

And a hat tip for Obama's actions this week on campaign finance, on DNC leadership, and on a coordinated policy push with the congressional Democrats.

(On the last point, see http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/6/6/21322 2/8633

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 10:46:15 PM EST

i heart hillary (2.00 / 5)

and heart the dem party.

which includes Obama.

Screw McSAME!!!!!!!!!

vote blue in 2008

by sepulvedaj3 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:10:41 PM EST

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 2)

I'm very glad that this is finally over. Clinton would have been the landslide victor any other year and though her campaign made some decisions I disagreed with, her campaign solved most of them in the last few months. Congrats to her on getting so many votes and inspiring so many people.

I'm looking forward to the convention and the ensuing race. It looks like it's gonna be intense.

by brathor on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:14:39 PM EST

I think we are all better off for (2.00 / 3)

this long primary. I doubted, but the party is energized and Sen. Clinton deserves a lot of credit for that.
I think she has the respect of over 70% of the democratic party which is a really large base for pushing issues like Universal Health Care reform.

Kudos to you Sen. Clinton.

Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!

by Student Guy on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:16:56 PM EST

To an extent (none / 0)

This is not a bash on the Clintons, just need to preface that first.

But that last thing we need at this point is another stock bubble like we had in the late 90s. I know that the bubble had nothing to do with the Clintons, it was just part of the 'Economy'. It is going to take us years to get over this housing bubble we are in. I don't want to make things worse.

I would much rather have the economy like it was from 94-97 when there was nice steady growth, with a strong US dollar and enough money coming into Washington to actually start working on a balanced budget.

Just remember that Clinton had to make some very unpopular tough choices at that time with spending, and Obama is going to have even tougher choices since Bush has decided to waste all our money (and lots of future money) in Iraq.

by monkeyga on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:17:34 PM EST

Re: To an extent (2.00 / 2)

1994 to 1997 was the Clinton era. just saying.

by colebiancardi on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:18:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I know that (none / 0)

As I said, I want some of the Clinton era economy back, just not all of it.

I agree that overall the 90s were immesurably better than now. I just dont want the stock bubble back. Working in tech, the bubble bust was not fun to live through (2000-2002) and I don't want to deal with that again.

by monkeyga on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:29:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I know that (none / 0)

I think tech right now is one of the areas least likely to be hit. For one, everyone already sees tech as a "bubble" industry now. For another, a lot of the bubble back then was based on innovation without much emphasis on the bottom line. Now it's ALL about the bottom line. As long as IT focuses on how it can make businesses more money, it will be doing just fine.

"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."

by vcalzone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:10:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I know that (none / 0)

Yes, the overall 90s were immeasureably better than now as far as the stock market goes--for 7 years of his presidency, we had a very solid upward moving stock market (with an unprecedented 5 years in a row of 20%+ returns on the S&P 500, although lopsided between tech and other areas of the market). The "tech stock" bubble only burst in March 2000 (as all bubbles eventually do), but any well diversified portfolio was still far better off when he left office than when he came into office. We also got the Roth IRA while he was in office, one of the best things to occur for investors in a very long time. I'd take the 90s back any time!

HRC: "...not a vote to rush to war--it...puts awesome responsibility in the hands of our President, we say to him 'Use these powers wisely and as a last resort.'"

by ChargedFan on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:16:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To an extent (none / 0)

Great, another troll.

I knew that it would be too much to expect to actually see positive comments on unity. I am sure that you will be bashing Hillary after tomorrow afternoon.

by monkeyga on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:56:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And yet another.... (2.00 / 1)

by Kysen on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:59:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To an extent (1.50 / 2)

Why not answer the question. Did or didn't obama vote yes for dick Cheney's energy bill?

by usedmeat on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:17:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Gracias! (none / 0)

I'm a actually pleased my first post can be a video reply. :-)

by KristinaA on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:18:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To an extent (2.00 / 1)

On the day Bill was elected 9% I repeat 9% of the voters thought the economy was in good shape. One of the reasons for the "bubble" that the Clinton snipers love to mention is that consumer confidence and optimism shot up dramatically when Clinton got in.

by handsomegent on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:10:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

i think it will be one of (2.00 / 3)

the most amazing speeches of our lifetimes. Hillary will deliver for the democratic party, something most of us knew she would do with style, class, and energy that no one has seen before. I am a hillary democrat through and through. I wilkl vote for Obama and urge everyone i can do to do the same. But hillary will forever hold my heart. Rise hillary, rise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep up the good work everyone!

vote blue in 2008

by sepulvedaj3 on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:25:00 PM EST

Voter Registration Drives (2.00 / 1)

OK, I know Obama supporters have been having a lot of them here in the Atlanta area. I am guessing that HRC supporters are organzing their own too.

How many people here have already worked on them? Voter registration is going to be a major factor in who wins this year.

We need to get as many people as possible and it seems that these could be a good way to start working together. After all, you don't have to just concentrate on the top of the ticket, but you can work to help a lot of down ticket Dems too.

by monkeyga on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:35:08 PM EST

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

This would have been a cool place.
We always visit when in D.C.
http://www.nmwa.org/

McWars will have Lobby problems all summer

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/On_warrant less_wiretaps_McCain_Bush_in_0606.html

Colorado will deliver a Udall in November.

MyDD coming full Circle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T21RGKo0g jg&feature=related

"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"

by nogo postal on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:41:21 PM EST

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 2)

i ask but one thing going into the GE. for hillary supporters, please do not judge Obama or his candidacy based on the people at dkos, here, or anywhere else online. i doubt any of them are really like this in real life, and i'm sure everyone else here doubts that too. it is, in my opinion, the internet. once you take away the threat of getting punched in the face for saying something stupid or mean, the worst takes over. look at o'reily. please, just don't obama by the overzealous supporters online.

Being Normal is for the Mediocre.

by Doug Tuttle on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:54:26 PM EST

And how should I just the HRC supporters (none / 0)

Or is that no longer allowed? Just look at this thread and how I have already been attacked.

I should have known better than any semblance of adult conversation could take place here.

by monkeyga on Fri Jun 06, 2008 at 11:59:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And how should I just the HRC supporters (none / 0)

Nono... These are not Hillary supporters. They are McCain supporters now.

There is no Hillary vs Obama. There is only Zuul... I mean, there are only Democrats.

"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."

by vcalzone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:13:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I have a feeling some (2.00 / 2)

of the people attacking you are trolls. Please don't assume that everyone who goes for your throat is a Clinton supporter.

by sricki on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:05:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Gee. Ya think? (none / 0)

Although I have noticed the quality of the troll comments falling off. Maybe all the true talents, the NCOs of Operation Chaos, have been called back to Young Republican HQ to reframe the Master Plan.

Sexism is real.

by grassrootsorganizer on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 05:38:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 1)

Some Obama supporters make me think of hurricane coverage where the reporters always find the silliest, most backwards commenters possible.

"Hey, check it out. You just had yourself a glue OD. So you're learning another lesson. Don't do too much glue, or your night sucks."

by vcalzone on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:20:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Let me see... (2.00 / 2)

was it Obama's online supporters who gave a speech in which they treated Hillary like "dirt on his shoulders", replete with gestures to indicate their full level of disgust?

Was it Obama's online supporters who suggested that Hillary was invoking the possibility -- maybe even the hope -- that Obama might be assassinated -- and right after Obama said his supporters should be "nice" to Hillary supporters?

Was it Obama's online supporters who wrote a memo in SC engaging in race baiting -- inflaming the ugliest kind of racial division just to win a primary?

Oh yeah, if only Obama could get rid of all those crazy online supporters, everybody would see all the unity he's been talking about.

by frankly0 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:49:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me see... (2.00 / 2)

You can continue with, Was it only online supporters who called HRC "the representative from Punjab" or was Phil deVillis a political hack working for Obama just an "online supporter" when he created the YouTube "Hillary is a dictator" 1984 parody that caused such a sensation in the Obama loving media? And I guess "Annie Oakley" and what was it?, "you're likeable enough Hillary" was from an online supporter? And I guess 2 of O's online supporters like Jesse Jackson Jr, "Hillary can cry for herself but not for Katrina victims" or Shirley Franklin, "A black man becoming president is not a 'fairy tale'" can be dismissed now.

by handsomegent on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:18:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let me see... (1.00 / 0)

But we're all supposed to forget this and worship at obama's feet?

by usedmeat on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:14:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (1.00 / 0)

Since this is a site who's mission is to elect Democrats let me say that I'll be doing my best to help HRC take the White House from John McCain come 2012.

by usedmeat on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:21:55 AM EST

insane (2.00 / 1)

If you really think that if Obama were to lose in November that HRC supporters could win her the nomination in 2012, you are insane.

Look at your words here tonight. You are going to do everything in your power to destroy the Democratic Party for the next 4 years. You are not exactly to be trusted.

Do you honestly think people would welcome you back with open arms? Look at how Ralph Nader is still viewed today. If the goal of her supporters is to destroy the party, why would we want you back?

And BTW, hows that little war going, you know, the one that HRC fully supported?

I really don't give a shit about that vote anymore, or a lot of others, but you obviously do.

You seem to believe that HRC is going to lie in wait for 4 years and let the country fall apart so she can win in 2012? Is that actually the kind of person that you thought you voted for? Is that the kind of person you think Hillary is?

You keep saying that we need to judge people by the company that the keep, I certainly hope that anyone associated with the HRC campaign has kept far away from you.

by monkeyga on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:39:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: insane (2.00 / 3)

You know, maybe you Obama supporters might, for once in your lives, take some responsibility for the sheer amount of antagonism, anger, and disgust you, and Obama, and Obama's campaign have engendered in many Hillary supporters.

If many Hillary supporters are in a state in which they are so disgusted with the man Obama and the ugliness that has emanated from him that they don't know whether they can possibly vote for him, how about the possibility that it is the sneering and smearing behavior of the Obama side that has directly led to that result?

Politics among other things embodies the aspirations of many types of people to achieve respect. One might say that the most unconscionable aspect of segregation and the doctrine of "separate but equal" is that it denied equal respect to all groups in American society. People die to achieve respect; they often don't think it's worth living without it.

And what has been clear from Day One in the Obama "movement" is that respect is only to be granted to people in that movement, and will be denied utterly to others. The entire movement seems almost to be fueled by showing blatant disrespect to unfavored groups.

What Obama would have to show many Hillary supporters is why we should acquiesce to the ugly disrespect we have been shown -- why that disrespect is a far less important or relevant evil than the evil of McCain's policies, even though those policies may not, in fact, materially alter many of our own lives. (How many of us really live in states where the in any case remote possibility of Roe v Wade being overturned might have an impact on our own lives?)

Suffice it to say, given the degree of disrespect Obama and his campaign and his supporters have shown to so many people, it's hard to see the argument that policies trump the disrespect and other kinds of dismissiveness the Obama movement has shown to many, many people. If our needs and aspirations mean so little to this movement, why should ever expect fair treatment at his hands?

Why should the abusee vote for the abuser?

by frankly0 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:09:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: insane (2.00 / 2)

Why should the abusee vote for the abuser?

More to the point, I think, is why should any of us living in the real world indulge you in your little victimization party?

by Frood on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:28:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: insane (none / 0)

There's been enough disrespect to go around on all sides. It was a long and historic primary. If you want to know what Barack Obama really thinks about Hillary Clinton listen to the portions of his St. Paul speech where he praised her. It was no boilerplate unity gesture. It was real. Perhaps it was just a start. But it was a good one. I suspect Hillary's speech tomorrow will be equally gracious and inspiring.

by elrod on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:13:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: insane (2.00 / 1)

You mean the war that Obama helped to fund by every nickel he voted for? Or the war he referenced in 2004 when he said his and Bush's positions were essentially the same? Or the time he punked out of the MoveOn senate vote concerning the Petraus ad?

by handsomegent on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:22:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: insane (1.00 / 0)

"And BTW, hows that little war going, you know, the one that HRC fully supported?

I really don't give a shit about that vote anymore, or a lot of others, but you obviously do."
But you're the one who keeps bringing it up to bash HRC.

by usedmeat on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:48:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You really are an asshole (none / 0)

You have yet to take responsibility ONCE for your actions. You are the one that keeps bashing Obama supporters. YOU are the one who keeps the vitriol going.

YOU are the one that has no respect for your supposed fellow party members.

Give me a break.

YOU are the proof that HRC and BHO were treated EXCACTLY the SAME this whole election campaign by writings on Blogs like this.

YOU and the HRC supporters have always shown the same lack of respect to us, that you claim we showed to you.

by monkeyga on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:05:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You really are an asshole (none / 0)

usedmeat is a Republican troll. By responding to him angrily, you add to the distraction he is creating in the discussion.

That said, the primary is over. There is no longer a reason to point out differences between BHO and HRC. And, there is definitely no reason to hold a grduge against your fellow Dems for the sin of trying to get their favorite candidate elected.

Redirect your energy to pointing out McSame's horrific voting record. It is much more fun than nit picking the small problems with HRC or BHO's records.

by PSockNerd on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:49:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 2)

I am with you Mr. Obama.

I'm still not drinking the Koolade, but I will vote for him in the fall and I will push back against the dirt-bag machine.

I shall see some of you tomorrow in DC. A caravan from NYC will be there to support show our support and let HRC know how much we have her back regardless of what she decides to do.

Now lets kick some Republican ass!

by devoted1 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:29:15 AM EST

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

Folks -

I'm hearing all to much that folks over at hillaryclinton.com are claiming (on the forums) that they're going to vote for McCain. (I am told that Rush Limbaugh has sent some of his dittoheads to help breed chaos at that site yesterday.) Some are legitimately angry former Clinton supporters.

Would those of you who have posted there in the past help promote unity over there, like MyDD has fostered over the last few days? (I've never posted there before, so I don't want to suddenly jump in.)

Thanks!

by barath on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:37:46 AM EST

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 1)

I think you have people who have invested their hearts and souls into Clinton's campaign, and it's going to take some time for them to get over the disappointment.
Please give them time, and eventually, you'll see most of them relent.
The rest of us will just have to work harder to make up for those that will never relent.

"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC

by skohayes on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:18:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

Well said. This is exactly right.

by PSockNerd on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:51:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 1)

Dispite the troll it seems like it's time for a unified party to kick some serious ass this fall. A new President with 62 Senators and a big House majority will remake America in a way the GOP can't contemplate. If they don't fuck it up several generations will go by before the Republicans can lie their way to power again.

by cacamp on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:40:44 AM EST

IN THE END (2.00 / 5)

To every person who said that Hillary was only about Hillary. To every person who said that the Clintons will stop at nothing to win. You are about to witness a side of the Clintons that you may not often hear about. They are Democrats- party first. Are they fighers? HELL YES! And guess what- I wish Al Gore and John Kerry had had a little more of there "balls". Are the Clintons sore losers- NO, they are Democrats, and in the end it's all about our values and our party. Let that be a lesson to all the nay sayers.

by easyE on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:04:54 AM EST

Re: IN THE END (none / 0)

I hope so

by Destiny on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:44:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: IN THE END (none / 0)

This is something I can't wait to be proven wrong on.

by PSockNerd on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 12:56:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 2)

no matter what, if you supported Obama, Hillary, Edwards, Richardson, Kucinich, Dodd, or even Gravel, remember this: keep that faith, keep your courage, stick together, stay strong, do not yield, stand up, WE'RE DEMOCRATS AND WE'LL NEVER SURRENDER!

by Lakrosse on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:13:42 AM EST

Kill the GOP, and give us back our RECS! (2.00 / 2)

Seriously, it wouldn't hurt the Unity on MyDD if the Obama crowd could actually rec the unity diaries going around...

-chris

Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics

by chrisblask on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 01:31:47 AM EST

Re: Kill the GOP, and give us back our RECS! (none / 0)

Most of us do not have rec power

Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.

by hootie4170 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:26:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kill the GOP, and give us back our RECS! (none / 0)

About time to change that, it seems.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:09:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmm, have people learned the lesson? (2.00 / 1)

"About time to change that, it seems."
Not so sure about that. Have an eye on the ratings when scrolling comments - how often do you see something rated "1" or even "0" without any serious insults at anyother commenter, or hatespeech, or another real abuse of the guidelines in it? Too many people here still seem to use the ratings as a means to harass the (inner party) opposition and to suppress points of view they don't want to see. Sure, people deserve a second chance, but then, some "probation" mechanism has to be in place, to get rid of serial offenders.

And I would even like to raise the point if this whole "rating" stuff isn't doing more harm than good. Really, what does it accomplish that a traditional moderation couldn't do much better?

No way, no how, no McCain!

by Gray on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:35:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmm, have people learned the lesson? (2.00 / 1)

As you may know by now I am a strong Clinton supporter but anyway I personally do not believe in "rating" anyone, just responding in commentary.

by handsomegent on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:43:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmm, have people learned the lesson? (2.00 / 1)

So we agree about something. That's a start.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:59:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I do believe in rating very much, (none / 0)

the whole topic of how to self-moderate things like these forums (and Wikis, search engines, ...)is of practical and professional interest to me.

Practical because I use the Intertoobs as much as anyone, as do my kids.

Professional because at the end of the day what I do for a living is market analytics and forecasting of communication trends and their implications.

Of the systems I've seen, I like the granularity of TalkLeft (1-5) best. Don't have enough hands-on experience with the matter of "banning"/unbanning and rec-rate privilege management to have a good feel for how well current systems function: learning about that here and now.

Beyond my tactical interest in how this all works at the moment, I am deeply fascinated in figuring out where this all goes. There is a rough shape in my head for how these forums evolve in the next few years, looking forward to being able to see it more clearly...

-chris

Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics

by chrisblask on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:31:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmm, have people learned the lesson? (2.00 / 1)

Well, in theory, 'trusted users' moderate the site, which is an admirable and mature policy. In practice it's a food-fight but that could change now since the primary has ended. Personally, I rarely hide or troll-rate for the reasons you mentioned, except in the case of a known Republican coming here to post patent rubbish, which doesn't actually seem to happen all that often.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:58:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmm, have people learned the lesson? (2.00 / 1)

Shaun, in all honesty I don't hate Obama nor when I think about it, his supporters. Obama is an ambitious politician like everybody else in that (they ALL have enormous egos)he wants to win, and his supporters are obviously sincere in their fawning over this guy. The major reason for the enormous bug up my Clinton-loving ass is the press. I have NEVER seen such a bias towards a particular candidate. And I thought that Bush in 2000 got a favorable press gainst Gore--but nothing like this. Even when Obama had missteps such as the early debate performances or later with Wright the press treated him like they would a naughty (needed to be put on the straight and narrow) son of theirs. THEY LOVE HIM, pure and simple. I have always despised the so-called mainstream press for good reasons. those reason were never more apparent than now.

by handsomegent on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:14:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmm, have people learned the lesson? (2.00 / 1)

Well, thanks for that. I'm an Obama supporter and I think the press are largely a mercenary pack of idiots. Give 'em hell.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:27:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because its 6-6-08 and there are 66 comments (2.00 / 2)

I am SICK and ***king TIRED of Keith Olberman ripping on HRC going as far today to claim that IF OBAMA LOOSES THIS FALL, IT WILL BE HILLARY 'S FAULT!!! WTF???? BULL SHIT>>>>>>>>> >>

by nzubechukwu on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 02:45:09 AM EST

Re: Because its 6-6-08 and there are 66 comments (2.00 / 2)

"I am SICK and ***king TIRED of Keith Olberman ripping on HRC going as far today to claim that IF OBAMA LOOSES THIS FALL, IT WILL BE HILLARY 'S FAULT!!! WTF???? BULL SHIT>>>>>>>>> >>"--nzubecheukwu

I'm wondering if Obama supporters who watch Keith Olbermann will denounce and reject his vitriolic statements against Hillary Clinton in the interest of UNITY?

by superetendar on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:52:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because its 6-6-08 and there are 66 comments (none / 0)

Please use CAPS more consistently because I'm a little hard of hearing in one ear.

Thanks.

McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.

by catilinus on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:46:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

rec-rate mechanisms need to/will be part of (none / 0)

watever the MSM becomes in coming years.

How that will work is what we are figuring out now, here.

Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics

by chrisblask on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:34:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Btw.. (none / 0)

8 is 2^3, while 6 is 2*3, so you can say this is just another way of writing the number of the beast!
:D

No way, no how, no McCain!

by Gray on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:58:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

TO you Hillary, (none / 0)

Hillary you are my hero. Nothing will ever change that. You have inspired me and countless others. Im not sure I can ever forget this year, this moment where democrats become one, and all the moments where we rejoiced [me yelling and screaming after we won on Super Tuesday II, thinking that my volunteer hours did make a difference].

Thank you, and goodluck tomorrow!!

by alyssa chaos on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 03:04:54 AM EST

Re: TO you Hillary, (none / 0)

None of us will ever forget this year, and it will be the subject of historical analyis for centuries.

Your volunteer hours did make a difference. If we learn nothing else from the experience we are embedded in, it should be that it does matter what we little individuals do.

It is a damn beautiful thing!

Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics

by chrisblask on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:47:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 2)

The false claim that somehow all Obama short comings are Hillary fault. The nonsense that if Obama loses that will somehow be Clinton's fault? That is to deflect any blame the MSM might find at their own doorstep. If Obama loses, it will be Obama's fault, and no one but the media will share the blame. Obama supporters are not even gracious as the winners, but continue to trash Clinton. They cry unity unity, but they still demand that her face be shoved into the dirt. That her supporters unite, that she is at fault, even when he clearly is the one to have the responsibility to crate that unity, his supporters refuse to be gracious. Oberfart is full of crap. if Obama loses, it will be his own fault. After all he has all those supporters who continue to fall in line, continue to insist that Clinton is a bitch, that she is at fault for anything that goes wrong for Obama. That is so much garbage. If I were her, I would not be anxious to get on his ticket. That way, if he loses, he will be the reason and not her. I say stay away from his ticket as much as possible, this is the doing of the DNC, the party elites, they deserve the blame, his supporters deserve some of it, but Clinton has no responsibility for his winning or losing. That is no way to get unity, but alas, its not unity they really want, it is complete humiliation of Clinton, that is their goal, always has been. Many Obama supporters are actually just Clinton haters. Now she is out of the race, I suspect that some of that will go away. Haters need an object to hate, they need an enemy to trash, and they need someone to blame, someone to project their own faults on, Clinton should stay away from all those people. They don't need her, remember, they don't want her, they don't deserve her help either. They don't want it anyway, so why force herself on him?

democrat voter

by democrat voter on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 04:28:23 AM EST

Thank You, sister. (2.00 / 3)

Thank you for sharing how you feel. I have been outraged at the treatment of Hillary as well. There has been a tendency by some to call feelings such as yours a "pity party". I understand what you are saying. You are a good Democrat, but you are angry. I agree that the media has been really very ugly and very mean. I have said so myself many times. I understand that sometimes people seek revenge or punishment when they feel that they or those in their family have been attacked.

In the history of the world people with great passions have killed each other for less than what we have experienced. But I was always working my heart out for Hillary Clinton. I had no hatred or malice against Senator Obama. Things have been done in his name that he would never have supported. I know it is hard to believe that. I had a hard time as well.

But I stand proudly with Hillary Clinton and always trust her to be honest with me. I don't care what anyone on TV says about her or why she does what she does. I know she made me very, very proud.

She has asked us to support Senator Obama and work our hearts out for him. If I don't do that I will be disloyal to Hillary. I can not do that.

Hillary has introduced Barack as a friend and a member of our family. She wants us to make him welcome and supported like we would do for anyone in our family. Anyone in any family can do things that make us mad, but they are still our family. Barack is now our brother, nuestro hermano, and we must never let anything bad happen to him. Our honor is at stake. I don't care if someone tries to blame what happens to our brother on us, because we will be supporting him and helping him as best we know how.

I know that I should have fought even harder for Hillary. But she has my best interests in her heart. She has accepted Barack in her heart as well. No one has forced her to do so. I will never let anyone hurt her again and I'm sorry I failed at times. But I know that Hillary will forgive me and I hope you will forgive me as well. I have to follow what she has asked me to I do not have the right to question her heart, or her judgement after receiving her blessing and her request to me to make Barack our brother. I have done so.

Please don't be so mad that you hate our family now. I miss those who have left us, although I know they still know we love and support them. I know they will be back.

You have the right to be angry and be so mad that you leave us and support a man who is not part of our family. He has never liked us or supported us, though, and he is lying to us now because he knows some of us are mad. He has hurt many of us. He does not share our hearts. I know this and I believe you know this because I have to so I can help take care of my family.

Hillary is not mad, and that's why I am accepting Barack as our brother. He has shown that he respects and appreciates Hillary and us as well. I know he will continue to do so. His family has been hurt too and I know that we have not done that. Although we don't know everyone in his family yet, most of them I have accepted into the family as Hillary has asked. I have not been disappointed.

Some are still acting hurt and angry and it makes it hard to accept them right away. We got into some heated arguments and everyone said some pretty bad things. And people who don't like us anyway wanted to see us fight.

I think we should show them that we accept their apologies and listen to their stories of where they have been so we can offer our apologies for not recognizing that they were hurt too. But they were always actually part of our family all along, even the ones whose behavoir was pretty bad.

Please come back home and let us become a family at peace. We need to fight for each other now more than ever. And we really need you with us. I'm saying that because I know you are a good Democrat and I would never lie to you because family always comes first. We;ll getb used to the new in-laws and such. We'll work it out.

by Jeter on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 05:54:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank You, sister. (none / 0)

Thank you, Jeter.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:07:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thank You, sister. (none / 0)

The only reason I supported and worked for Kerry is because Dean asked me to. He convinced me that the Democratic party and platform was more important than himself. Dean went on to prove that it wasn't all about him when he ran for the DNC and put his 50 state plan into effect.

I never fell in love with Kerry as you will probably never fall in love with Obama but that's all right. We're still family.

by Destiny on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:52:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (1.00 / 1)

The ONLY way that Obama can unite this party is by putting Hillary on the ticket. HRC was by far the most articulate (she won almost all the debates, remember) well versed candidates this party has ever seen. But then the media Golden Boy, the GODHEAD, beloved of Oprah, Cafferty, Matthews, Olbermann, Russert,the rest of his pals at MSNBC and CNN(to say of his right wing buddies at Fox)start a campaign to turn the female candidate into this caricature of the evil, conniving witch, out to destroy the pure and altruistic ambitions of a noble black man. That dastardly Hillary was standing in the way so she must be destroyed. And not just normally defeated either. She needed to be taken to the vet, run over by a flatbed truck, taken into a room and left there, accept her role as Norma Desmond (CNN), await the fate of the nutcase in Fatal Attraction, have a stake driven into her heart.And her husband, who just happens to be a successful two-term Democratic president is described as "rabid". All the latter mentioned by members of the MSM. And you know what I say to this unity shit. I'm not impressed too much. Hillary Clinton may be gracious but that doesn't mean the close to 18 million who voted for her will be. And you can include me in the list.

by handsomegent on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 05:24:26 AM EST

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 1)

That's your contribution to the 'unity thread?' Sigh.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:05:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

That's right. I don't fall in line and shut up like a good little boy is supposed to I guess.

by handsomegent on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:26:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 1)

There's no way to respond to "Clinton" or "Obama" supporters who use your "FU" tone, without getting into a fight. It doesn't matter if rage is spelled O.b.a.m.a. or C.l.i.n.t.o.n., it's just the same exact mirror rage.

McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.

by catilinus on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:40:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Imho this venting of anger is harmless (2.00 / 1)

Really, after all the atrocities, you can't expect people to fall in line immediately. And, looking at this rant, I think it's not really insulting. Sure, there's some exaggeration, but it's all based on some grains of truth. Can't Clinton fans just voice their frustration, has this lead to a long discusion about who to properly toe the party line, every single time?
:-/

No way, no how, no McCain!

by Gray on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:51:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Imho this venting of anger is harmless (none / 0)

Excuse me Gray, but if you are referring to me and my comment above, what do you mean by "grains of truth"? It's not grains, Gray, it's a whole beach.

by handsomegent on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:57:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's all in the eye of the beholder (2.00 / 1)

uh, oops, ouch! Sand in the eye. Damn...
:D

No seriously, as a fellow Clinton supporter, imho it goes a bit too far to imply that all those hate crimes where orchestrated by the Obama camp. Yes, there were many radical Obama supporters who totally lost their sense of dignity, but those radicals did this on their won. And it should be mentioned that Obama had at least some advantages over Cointon, too, the most important being that he had a better eye for outstanding campaign staffers. Just imagine what Hillary could have accomplished if she wouldn'6t have burdened herself with Sean Penn!

So, I think, you comment is a bit over the top. Your mileage may vary, of course.

No way, no how, no McCain!

by Gray on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:09:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary wanted Axlerod (none / 0)

on her first run for the Senate. Bill talked her into Penn. Wonder how things would have turned out if she had Axlerod.

by Destiny on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:56:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary wanted Axlerod (none / 0)

But realize another thing. Axelrod was the brains behind Carol Mosely Braun"s run for the Seanate in 1992. She almost blew that election big time and if her Repoublican opponent wasn't such a joke she would have lost.

by handsomegent on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:04:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary wanted Axlerod (none / 0)

You're right. It may be synergy - the right manager for the right pol. One thing is for sure Penn did not serve Hillary well. It seems that he didn't take Hilliary's personal strengths, character, biography and the mood of the electorate into consideration. I still don't feel like I know the real Hillary.

I hope that in her speech today she shows the extreme graciousness and class that she showed in Iowas after her loss. That Hillary seemed real to me - not because she lost but because she showed character in defeat.

by Destiny on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:11:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Imho this venting of anger is harmless (none / 0)

My take on rants:

Mea Culpa

McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.

by catilinus on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:00:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Imho this venting of anger is harmless (2.00 / 1)

Classy, Catilinus! Now it's only the sig line that is somewhat tainting your great "unity" drive...
:D

No way, no how, no McCain!

by Gray on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:12:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Imho this venting of anger is harmless (2.00 / 2)

Thanks, & you're right about the sig. That's the 2nd time you're right. I'm working on changing it right now. How about...
McCaincaraldo?

McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.

by catilinus on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:15:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Imho this venting of anger is harmless (2.00 / 2)

"How about...
McCaincaraldo?"

Good idea for the start, signaling that you're going into full GE mode now. Yup, no lunatics for president! Stop McSame!

No way, no how, no McCain!

by Gray on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:19:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

Well, for an independent thinker you are certainly repeating a pot pourri of narratives which were spun in the heat of a bitter campaign by people more interested in electoral advantage than intellectual integrity. But suit yourself.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:41:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

"people more interested in electoral advantage than intellectual integrity"
Uh huh. And you think that this statement isn't simply an Obama camp narrative, too?
:D

No way, no how, no McCain!

by Gray on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:52:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

Arguably. I'm trying to steer clear of post-mortems of the primary at this point.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:01:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

The winner always does.

by Juno on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:36:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

That's typically untrue, the winner usually gets to write 'em. But it would just be another annoyance to Hillary supporters at the moment so I am glad the Obama campaign is turning it's attention to the general election. The media is making a story of 'the fall of Hillary' with it's usual lack of grace or attention to detail but that was always on the cards in the event of her not winning. None of that is the fault of Obama or his supporters, incidentally, just the way things are done, regrettably, in our political culture.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:51:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 1)

Obama supporters have been disgraceful in victory, continuing to pound away at Clinton even after he clinched the nomination. For what purpose? They can vent negatively after the win toward her, but if Clinton supporters vent, they're dividing the party??

Give me a break.

It's Obama who's supposed to be the master unifier. It's his supporters who are supposedly inspired to a new and non-negative politic.

I've yet to see it.

And for me at least, there is nothing grosser than saying, "Yes, we beat the crap out of you, but now get over it, we won, you lost, we're going to keep pounding you but you'd be better vote for our guy because the other guy is worse."

It's a form of extortion.

by Juno on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:54:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

Obama supporters have been disgraceful in victory... Are you talking about me? If we continually characterise and depersonalise the real human beings involved in this discussion and, hopefully, the unification of our party, we will never get anywhere.

Treating each exchange as a conversation with an individual with their own unique perspective and arguments makes it much easier to extend and receive respect. It's all about respect, it seems, and the bad feelings created by the lack of it.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:01:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

Look, every time I've called Obama supporters out on their gross behavior as evidence that Obama does not in fact inspire people to a higher form of politic, I'm told that I should not draw conclusions based on a few people on the Internet.

In that case, I'm told to NOT respond to people individually.

For me the issue has been whether or not Obama's campaign stances have substance and can be shown to have real depth and meaning, namely the change/hope/inspiration stuff, and in my opinion, based on what I saw from the media during this campaign and from his own supporters, they do not.

I will obviously vote for Obama in November, but I am being made to feel terrible by his own supporters (and coerced) by having to do so, being called a troll, a GOP shill, a McCain hack, etc., not to mention the continued beating of Hillary Clinton even after Obama had locked up the nomination.

For Obama supporters to now be using a do-it-or-else means of getting Clinton supporters to vote for him is not only pretty gross, but it's contrary to what Obama claims he can do.

It's very, very offensive. It's how the GOP (and oil companies) operate: well, what are you going to do? We've got you by the balls. We can treat you like dirt AND continue screwing you.

SEems unObaman, and I personally don't like operating on that level. No, I don't respect that.

by Juno on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:15:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

Meant in the GOP/Oil company analogy to say "WE can treat you like dirt AND get you to do our bidding."

by Juno on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:31:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 1)

That wasn't exactly what I meant but I can understand your point. I don't think it is anyone's intention to coerce you, and I'm impressed that you are obviously a Democrat first. But I'm suggesting that there are as many shades and degrees of civility among Obama supporters as among any other highly motivated group.

I think you will find that you will still get push-back from Obama supporters on primary election narratives which seek to establish blame or portray Hillary or her supporters as victims of injustice or misdeed, and fair enough too, that's been the mud we've been flinging at each other all this time.

But it may be worth avoiding that contentious point and just ask for the respect you think you and she deserve for such a tenacious, credible and hard-fought campaign. You'll probably get it.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:34:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

Yeah.... I was in a thread with you the other day and the opinion was virtually unanimous that you were baiting people until they lost their temper.

You even had to retreat into the position that "okay, maybe I'm being insulting, but I never said I wasn't. Your candidate is supposed to be about unity though, so you'll take my insults and like it."

It's not like you say it is.

When you start out making the "slippery slope" argument, where do you draw the line?

by Jess81 on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:57:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 2)

I'm independent in the sense Shaun, that I don't necessarily have to fall in line with the Obama crowd and completely ignore what has transpired over the last year and a half. By the by during this campaign I can recall dozens of calls from Obama supporters on CSPAN plus 100's of comments on Kos and the NY Daily News saying they will NEVER support HRC. I seem to recall the senator's wife saying in February when asked if she would support HRC as the nominee, "I'll have to think about it". Of course she was the one when interviewed by Mika B. said in response to the fact that HRC was THEN getting the majority of the black vote in South Carolina, "That's part of the legacy of slavery", one of this campaign's rarely mentioned gems.

by handsomegent on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:53:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

We could do this all day, and have done for sixteen months.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:02:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

People can change their minds, fortunately, that (2.00 / 1)

is the entire purpose of communication of every sort.

I have been one of those. My view on Clinton evolved from "we need a dem this cycle and it is Clinton, that's where my vote goes" to "NEVER! blahblahblah.." to "arrgghh, I may be pissed but McCain is useless and the GOP is a trash-heap - if not Obama then Clinton". If there was a dime for every "never" I have had to eat I'd jingle when I walk.

If no-one ever changed their thoughts based on experience, discussion and introspection we wouldn't be human and there would be absolutely no point in politics at all.

The only thing that separates us from cattle is communication.

-chiris

Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics

by chrisblask on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:55:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 1)

Well, for an independent thinker you are certainly repeating a pot pourri of narratives which were spun in the heat of a bitter campaign by people more interested in electoral advantage than intellectual integrity.

You mean like playing the "Bradley Effect" card to explain obama's loss in New Hampshire? Or by turning HRC's factual statement about MLK and LBJ into a racist smear?

by usedmeat on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:28:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

There you go again (2.00 / 1)

Once again you are now bashing Obama and his supporters. Hillary makes a statement, so it must be factual. There are a lot of people, including a lot of people who supported Clinton who had serious issues with that statement.

But see, once again, you are so biased and bigoted that anyone who would dare call Clinton out on something she said is automatically a Clinton hater.

You have been very quick to point out every gaffe and every misstep of Obama and use them to hate him. Obama did not get any 'free pass' as you seem to claim. The media hit him, and hit him hard over Rev. Wright. They also hit him very hard, as did Sen. Clinton over the bitter comments. These issues were in the news for weeks on end. The LBJ comment was a story for about 3 days tops. The media is still talking about the bitter comments.

So apparently, it is perfectly acceptable, and good politics for Sen. Clinton to attack Obama over any misstatement, but it is sexist and unacceaptable for Obama to have done the same to her?

The truth is, that no matter how anyone who ran against Clinton ran, you were going to find fault.

Look how many Hillary supporters continue to claim that Michelle Obama wants to kill Whitey and I have yet to see you or any Hillary supporter on here talk about what a load of crap that is

by monkeyga on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:17:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: There you go again (2.00 / 1)

anyone who had serous issues with that statement was either a fool, disingenuous, or going GOP on Clinton.

There was absolutely nothing racist about that statement. Not one damn thing.

The Obama campaign made race an issue by turning every damn thing she said into being racist or race baiting.

And it worked.

Let's see if it works on Republicans.

by Juno on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:35:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You cant let anything go (none / 0)

So when Hillary took the 'Bitter' comment to West Virginia and Kentucky and PA, there was nothing racist there? When she talked about how Obama and his 'San Fransisco' values speech would fly out there, but not among the hard working people of those places, it wasnt racist and homophobic????

Give me a break.
Her campaign was just as quick and as vicious in pulling anything out that they could to try and win

Juno
Just go join the Republicans, it is obvious from all your posts here that is where your true calling lay.

You have bashed me over and over and over and yet you have never ONCE taken ANY responsibility. Where have you once, JUST ONCE, called out the Obama haters? You haven't, and I know you never will.

by monkeyga on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:37:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Understandable emotions (2.00 / 3)

When you see Clinton STILL demonized and treated with utter disrespect, even after everybody is supposed to stomp for unity, it's understandable that not all Clinton fans will play along as if everything is fine again. Just look at the cartoon accompanying this allegedly "moderate" blog, and you'll see that Clinton bashing is still going on, preventing many wounds from healing:
http://themoderatevoice.com/politics/whi te-house/20201/obama-one-cannot-praise-a merica-enough/

Really, isn't this tasteless, even humanly degrading? Do you still wonder about the hurt feelings now?

No way, no how, no McCain!

by Gray on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 06:44:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Understandable emotions (2.00 / 1)

Yes, it's tasteless. And your point about understandable emotions is well taken. Personally I think the less we chew over the undeniably hurtful events of the past sixteen months like an old bone the better but I have patience with the genuine expression of hurt and anger. But it doesn't seem a good time to pick fights over it, either.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:06:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Understandable emotions (1.00 / 0)

I can see why you would want to forget the "the undeniably hurtful events of the past sixteen months", since it was the obama supporters responsible for most of them.

by usedmeat on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:58:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Understandable emotions (none / 0)

You're really determined to cause trouble here, aren't you? As much as I disagree with you I wish I was as sure about anything as you seem to be about everything.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:18:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Understandable emotions (1.00 / 0)

Call me Cassandra. Anothe bon mot from my mom. What comes around goes around. Another way of describing karma. What obama supporters did to HRC the republicans will do to obama.

by usedmeat on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:32:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Understandable emotions (none / 0)

Is that wishful thinking? What you are doing to this thread is the blogging equivalent of graffiti. Tag away.

by Shaun Appleby on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:51:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary supporters doing a good job (none / 0)

DO you have amnesia? Do you think that you and other Hillary supporters have not been bashing Obama? Are you trying to tell me that for 16 months you did not make a single negative statement?

With people like you around, I really don't think that Obama needs to worry about knives and attacks coming from the GOP

by monkeyga on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:19:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary supporters doing a good job (2.00 / 2)

I don't think it's productive to respond to usedmeat, who wishes to promote anger.

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:01:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Understandable emotions (2.00 / 2)

Only a conscious effort at lacking empathy could cause anyone to think there are not "hurt feelings" on both sides.

McCain isn't going to wait for Obama & Clinton supporters to get over hurt feelings with each other. Why should he? He sits back and grins while we vent rage at each other.

McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.

by catilinus on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 07:07:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 1)

Only a conscious effort at lacking empathy could cause anyone to think there are not "hurt feelings" on both sides.

Both sides? Get real. The underhanded attacks came from obama supporters who stooped so low as to use republican talking points to bash HRC.

by usedmeat on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:03:20 AM EST

Have you seen gop.com? (2.00 / 2)

The points put forth against Obama by dems - the INDIVIDUALS who put them forth - are being used against Obama as we speak.

Please quit the "I am an angel without any fault in the world, you are a devil without any human characteristics" bullshit.

Anyone who admits no fault while ascribing Satanic qualities to others is either dishonest of self-blinding.

-chris

Motley Moose: Progress Through Politics

by chrisblask on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 09:59:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Unity (none / 0)

Here's hoping that something concrete happens to make the reality feel like more than necessity being the mother of invention, such as a unity ticket.

by phoenixdreamz on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:49:52 AM EST

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 4)

One group that is really moving to Obama is Hispanics.

The LA Times reports:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/ politics/la-na-latinos6-2008jun06,0,1761 51.story

A new Gallup Poll summary of surveys taken in May shows Obama winning 62% of Latino registered voters nationwide, compared with just 29% for McCain. Others have found a wide gap as well. The pro-Democratic group Democracy Corps compiled surveys from March through May that showed Obama with a 19-point lead among Latinos. And a Times poll published last month showed Obama leading McCain among California Latinos by 14 points.

And Republicans are worried:

Republicans say McCain's numbers among Latinos at the moment are disappointing -- far below the goals set by a campaign that has long believed McCain could challenge the traditional Democratic dominance of the Latino electorate.

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:12:53 AM EST

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

I just came across a very detailed discussion of the Hispanic vote over at another site:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/6/7/0 2440/50576/535/531358

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:27:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 3)

BTW, this is what Obama is doing over the weekend. I can really relate to what he says about a sleepover of 7 year olds!

/ He's looking forward to "a date" tonight with his wife, Michelle, a round of golf on Saturday ("the best I can do is the low 80s," Obama said) and a bike ride with his children on Sunday.

Not that he is expecting it to be entirely relaxing. On Saturday night, Obama will face a challenge familiar to many American parents: Eight 7-year-olds are due at his house for a birthday sleepover in honor of his daughter, Sasha.

"These kids are planning to make pizza so who knows what our kitchen will look like," Obama said. "They shouldn't call these sleepovers. They should call them wake-overs."/
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/el ection2008/2008-06-05-Obama_N.htm

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:14:38 AM EST

Trolls beware (2.00 / 2)

This thread might bite the obvious trolls on the azz. We now know for sure who you are. I just don't get people who claim to be Dems or progressives but still think they are so smart when they still can't let their arguments, go! I as a parent have had to take sides in many sibling battles and have been held in very low esteem by the "loser" in each and every battle. But I, through example have taught my kids to let it go! Because in the long run we are a real family and thats what families do!

by eddieb on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:19:29 AM EST

Re: Trolls beware (2.00 / 1)

Thanks for your comment. I've found that I've drawn upon my motherly experience during the course of this campaign with such bits of life wisdom like

a) When you make a mistake, fess up. People will respect you for admitting it.
b) Two wrongs don't make a right.
c) If you break a rule, you have to accept the punishment.
d) As a parent, if you don't enforce broken rules, then the kids won't ever believe you when you tell them they have to follow rules in the future.

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:23:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh so true! (none / 0)

But as a parent I have also come to accept that I am not really, in total control like I thought I was supposed to be. I explain it this way "We don't have kids, Kids have us!". When my wife or I would yell at our kids, I would tell anyone who would listen that in reality, I was yelling "Stop acting your age!"
When I finally accepted these truisms life got a lot easier!

by eddieb on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:08:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

To those I may have insulted along the way... (2.00 / 2)

I sincerely apologize. The fact that we were all staunch supporters of our respective candidate doesn't make us weaker. Those passions weren't misplaced. Each candidate deserved and received our love for very valid reasons.

I know we'll all come together now and I'm proud to be a Democrat today. Thank you Senator Clinton for all you've meant to the party, to women everywhere and to this year's campaign.

I was with Obama from the start.

by SpanishFly on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:22:07 AM EST

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (2.00 / 3)

I also apologize to any hurt I may caused along the way.

[BTW - This reminds me of what I and fellow Jews are supposed to do during the High Holidays - Rosh HaShanah and Yom Kippur. We are supposed to ask people for forgiveness for harms we may have done. We are taught that God does not forgive wrongs we have done to others until we have asked those human beings for forgiveness.]

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

by politicsmatters on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 10:25:50 AM EST

Have any of the armchair historians noticed... (none / 0)

that David Axelrod looks remarkably like Lincoln conspirator George Atzerodt (he was the one who chickened out when he was supposed to assassinate the vice-president)? This comment doesn't amount to a hill of beans but I couldn't resist mentioning it.

by handsomegent on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:11:39 AM EST

Bake beans! (none / 0)

Beans, beans! The magical fruit the more you eat the more you toot! The more you toot the better you feel so eat beans at every meal!

Sorry, I just couldn't help myself! :)

by eddieb on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:49:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bake beans! (none / 0)

Go Fuck Yourself Asshole.

by handsomegent on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:19:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Count me out (2.00 / 1)

After all the venom and bile supporters of BO used to denigrate HRC, BC and her supporters, count me out. Don't stick a shiv in me and expect me say thank you. Save you apologies as your true feelings were shown in the prior 6 months and they now ring hollow. After all, why do you want a bunch of racist, liars and henchmen on your team?

by Newport News Dem on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:27:02 AM EST

And your venom? (none / 0)

Look at all of the venom that you spewed and continue to spew! You see nothing wrong with anything you have ever said about the Obamas. You see nothing wrong with all of the HRC supporters here and at talkleft and at Hillaryis44 who keep talking about Michelle killing whitey and Barack hating White people and all that other shit.

Yet, if she had a better SuperTuesday and won the nomination, you would be on here berating us for not immediately supporting her. You would be calling us bigots and misogynists for refusing to move forward. You would be hating on us for refusing to help her pay off her campaign debt so that we could move forward into the Fall.

There are umpteen posts on here where you continue to denigrate anyone who has supported Obama, yet you act as if your hands are not bloodied.

Are you the second coming? I mean really, are you without sin that you can condemn all others? You really seem to have a very high opinion of yourself. I really think you need to go take a good long hard look in the mirror and see how you have been acting for the last 16 months.

by monkeyga on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:40:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Soooo What ya gonna do? (none / 0)

You got to do the right thing by Hillary or will you betray her! Soooo, what you gonna do? Honor her or dis-honor her!

by eddieb on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 11:54:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Soooo What ya gonna do? (none / 0)

This morning I was going to vote for Obama. After reading some of the comments from the Obama people I have changed my mind.

by handsomegent on Sat Jun 07, 2008 at 08:21:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pre-Endorsement Unity Thread (none / 0)

YOU are the one that has no respect for your supposed fellow party members.

Flashlights rc helicopter video game

by anasky123 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:52:57 AM EST

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