MyDD :: Open Thread

by Cheebs on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:32:59 PM EST

Congrats to our nominee.

We've got (2.00 / 2)

one heck-of-a-nominee!

by Tatan on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:35:15 PM EST

Re: We've got (2.00 / 3)

I'm so proud of him. His oratorical destruction of McCain last night was beautiful.

THIS is the Democrat that I've been waiting for.

Swing State Project: Campaign & Election News - Covering Key Races Around the Country

by HellofaSandwich on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:41:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I like (none / 0)

Obama and always have, but John Edwards and/or Wes Clark are the Democrat I have been waiting for.

Obama and Clinton are both a little to corporate friendly for me.

That being said.... give me Obama ANY DAY over ANYTHING the repugs put up!

Washington Woman
theocracywatch.org
EENR Blog

by kevin22262 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:08:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 2)

"It's not just that this administration hasn't been fighting for you, they've actually tried to stop you from fighting for yourselves."

Great line.

It takes him about 5 to 10 minutes to warm up; he's hesitant in the beginning and fluid at the end. I wish there was some way that debates could begin 10 minutes after he's started talking.

We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.

by Jess81 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:43:35 PM EST

We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.

Thank you for posting this. It's so fabulous.

by politicsmatters on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:44:16 PM EST

by gil44 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:45:49 PM EST

Happy!!!!

by Addison on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:48:51 PM EST

Hey, there's only one electoral college counter now.

The other one conceded ;-] (2.00 / 1)

"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!

by Al Rodgers on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:52:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ha (none / 0)

Washington Woman
theocracywatch.org
EENR Blog

by kevin22262 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:06:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The other one conceded ;-] (none / 0)

Yo Al,

check out my diary if your so inclined:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/6/4/19515 7/3562#3

It's uhh, different.

;)

Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.

by fogiv on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:37:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

by Addison on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:48:54 PM EST

by Addison on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:49:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmmm...

I don't think this was my fault.

I am sorry if this appears like it is gloating (2.00 / 1)

but I feel the need to post this picture:

title=

Keep talking like that Barack and you'll be President in a landslide.

Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!

by Student Guy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:57:35 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 4)

Hey, you know, listening to those snippets of a speech makes me think we did something pretty amazing so far. The primary is over, it was a foam-bat fight among friends. Let's turn this enthusiasm, engagement and yes, even some of our anger, to the challenge now facing us to take back the White House, and Congress, with the veto-proof majority we are going to need, and remake our country. I honestly don't think we've had a better opportunity for a generation.

by Shaun Appleby on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:05:03 PM EST

Take a look at this! (2.00 / 2)

From EENR

Let the Flames Begin
by: Michael Conrad
Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 19:38:33 PM PDT

I just got home, turned on the TV, and saw that CNN had once again put the "bias" of the "liberal media" on display for the world to see.

Just look at who they included on their panel to discuss the fall match - up.

more here...
http://eenrblog.com/showDiary.do?diaryId =1645

Washington Woman
theocracywatch.org
EENR Blog

by kevin22262 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:05:58 PM EST

The line at the end of the blog is very true (2.00 / 1)

The democrats aren't afraid any more, look at how both Obama and Hillary go after McCain.

The panel was a joke, but I really liked the line about Rollins and Ms. Face Tat.

Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!

by Student Guy on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:16:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I hate CNN (2.00 / 1)

Since Ted left they really have gone downhill. I think that putting Nancy Grace and Glenn Beck on the air is the reason that the tornado struck their building.

I only wish it didn't hit the rest of Atlanta.

by monkeyga on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:51:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think this is a wonderful poem (2.00 / 5)

Donate!

by chrisblask on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:19:58 PM EST

Great Moments in Recent US Political History (none / 0)

Man, we've come so far. Thanks, everybody. Americans first.

by Shaun Appleby on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:32:28 PM EST

Quote of the Day (2.00 / 2)

My favorite quote of the day:

"I've heard from a number of people already, both black and white, that their kids -- 7, 8, 9 years old -- take for granted now that of course a black can run for president. Of course a woman can run for president. There's a matter of factness to it that I think bodes well for the future."

It's just the beat of time, the beat that must go on
If you've been trying for years, we already heard your song

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:42:50 PM EST

Wonderful (2.00 / 1)

I really hadn't thought of it this way, but it is true.

Barriers are breaking down so fast in America. Race and gender are becoming irrelevent to young people. The change is much faster than I thought could be possible. Look how quickly the debate over gay marriage has changed in California.

If there is one thing that is still the biggest barrier left, it is economic status. I really think that is now the hardest barrier to overcome.

by monkeyga on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:58:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/6/4/19515 7/3562#3

If ya'll know who Townes Van Zandt is (or especially if you don't) drop in my diary and have a look. Song of his struck me deeply in light of the primaries ending and all. Would like to see your thoughts.

Cheers,

Unseen, in the background, Fate was quietly slipping the lead into the boxing glove.

by fogiv on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:42:52 PM EST

Re: Open Thread (2.00 / 2)

Obviously November is a long way off, but as the general election kicks off, the signs are good for us. As of today, Obama leads McCain in the projected electoral vote 287 to 227, according to electoral-vote.com, and he leads McCain in the latest CBS News poll 48 to 42.

And anyone who watched Obama's and McCain's speeches last night can't help but be optimistic. It was night and day.

"No matter what happens, I will work for the nominee of the Democratic Party because we must win in November." -Hillary Clinton

by fugazi on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:44:58 PM EST

Okay, I'm gonna whine... (none / 0)

Why can't I mojo no more?

I can rec. I can see hidden comments. But within the last few hours, I've lost the ability to mojo. Is it 'cuz I did the "Hide" thingie on the expunged Dean/suicide diary? Do we only have so much mojo-juice to spend, and if we use our Zeros or Hides (which I'd never done before that diary), we have to build our mojoing abilities back up somehow?

Sorry, kind of a noob. I've been reading this site for a while, but only ventured into participating in the last few weeks, so I don't have a handle on how all the internal mechanisms work.

There had better be cheese at the end of this maze...

by LoosCanN on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:43:02 AM EST

Re: Okay, I'm gonna whine... (2.00 / 1)

this happened to me once. i had to log off and log back in and it was restored... of course, there could be a deliberate reason behind your loss of site privilege, but it's something to try if you think otherwise.

To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." - Chinese writer Moh-Tze

by ILean Left on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 12:55:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Duuuude or Duuuudette... (2.00 / 1)

Thank you, that was exactly it! I can once again mojo! Whew. Thanks. I hate feeling paranoid...

There had better be cheese at the end of this maze...

by LoosCanN on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:03:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Anyone else notice... (2.00 / 1)

... an absence on the diary list this evening?

Hooray for John McCain!

by ragekage on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:13:47 AM EST

by semiquaver on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:46:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

If you're referring to alegre, she hasn't posted so much as a comment for 24 hours. Looking pack a few pages into her history, I can't find any time recently when that was true. We should give her some time to mourn.

[ Donate to Barack Obama ]

Hooray for John McCain!

I'm all for unity and such, but I dunno- am I bitter to not be concerned about giving her time for anything? Hell, I had contentious relationships with lots of Clinton supporters around here, but they at least were honest in their demeanor and stood up for themselves when challenged. They're the sort of people I want to work with, that I'm damn proud to work with.

Alegre? Not so much.

by ragekage on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:57:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

Disregard folks like her, and you'll make a mistake.

She led disgruntled Hillary supporters from the big orange site (rightfully so, I might add), and made national news when she did so.

You may dislike her, and you may disagree with her, but you have to admit she has some formidable traits.

Those might be needed in the fall, ya know?

by emsprater on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:07:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hooray for John McCain!

No, my problem is with her in particular, and I think that there are Clinton supporters around here that agree with me completely. You, for instance, ems, we've had several back and forth engagements. But I like that; you stand up for what you believe in; when I challenge a point you make, you back it up instead of resorting to ad hominem; and I've never seen you sling baseless and wholly partisan invective for no other purpose than to slam Senator Obama.

That is, in my eyes, the traits of a real Clinton supporter, and is why I would've voted for Clinton if things had gone differently. I'm damn proud to be associated with people like you. Alegre has none of those traits, however, and I don't want her to work for our side.

Again, I understand this doesn't play to the "unity" thing- but I won't forgive Larry Johnson, or Susan Hu, or the fine folks at Hillaryis44. I dunno, ems, is that wrong?

by ragekage on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:13:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Anyone else notice... (2.00 / 1)

All we need to hear now is THANK YOU Hillary for your support. Same to any and all of her supporters who climb on board. The primary is over, the target is McCain. What's done is done. There is plenty to be ashamed of from the online behavior from both sides. Now let's all have a group hug.

Somehow I don't think you will have to worry about working shoulder to shoulder with the no quarter or hillaryis44 bunch they won't be joining the unity party. So say THANK YOU to EVERY Clinton supporter who is joining the fight against the evil and corrupt minions of Bush Republicanism and to you new McCain supporters, piss off Free Republic is waiting for you.

by hankg on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:59:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

I don't share your disdain for some very fine activists. Larry Johnson is an asset. Susan Hu could be. I have never even visited the Hillaryis44 site, so I can't comment on it. Isn't that odd, a Hillary supporter who steered away from a site simply based on the vitriol posted about that site from supporters of the other candidate!

To label any person in the Democratic party (or NPA, don't forget, a large portion of Obama's support comes from NPA voters, and that's what allowed him to win over Hillary) as 'not needed' is folly.

Thanks for the kind words. I think we've both ticked each other off more than once, but I have to admire your abilities.

by emsprater on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 09:40:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

by Juno on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:57:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It's Obama supporters around here who have not been honest about their demeanor OR they just have double standards, one or the other.

Hell's bells, even the GOP didn't have to crucify Eisenhower's record in order to make Reagan their 'saint'. We can have two great ones, you know?

Yes, there are decidedly fewer Hillary bashing diaries on the rec list tonight.

Oh, that wasn't what you meant, was it? I suppose in the spirit of 'unity' you were sort of , perhaps, maybe gracefully alluding to the absence of a notable Hillary supporter, one that some of you detest as if she were lower than McCain's jowls.

I had hope for some change here. Don't make me rethink that.

by emsprater on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:03:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow. (none / 0)

He sounds even more progressive after winning the primary than he did during it. Wow.

by Michael D on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:16:07 AM EST

by stefystef on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:37:27 AM EST

Why is it that people go crazy when they hear anything utter from Obama's mouth?

He's saying the same stuff he's been saying for months.

You can only keep hyping for so long.

Why is it that people go crazy (2.00 / 1)

Because they agree with ideas that have been relegated to irrelevance for too long.

Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.

by Freespeechzone on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:51:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Open Thread (none / 0)

Yeah, it was just more of the same old lib'rul crapola. I for one think McCain's speech was the one that was truly historic and inspiring.

THAT'S not change you can believe in!"

[ Donate to Barack Obama ]

by semiquaver on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:53:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama already shifting to the right (none / 0)

His recent remarks about Iran (would do "everything" against "grave" danger of "nuclear weapon") are commented by German weekly "Der Spiegel" as "reminding of Bush". And rightly so. Doing "everything", without caring for the consequences, certainly isn't the policy the US and the world need now. More brains, less machismo, pls.

by Gray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:38:27 AM EST

Balderdash. (none / 0)

Obama has just been attacked by Bush/McCain for wanting to talk and negotiate with Iran.

Don't let a few political buzz words lead you to false comparisons and conclusions.

Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.

by Freespeechzone on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:55:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Words have consequences (none / 0)

When he says things like "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided," these aren't only buzzwords, these a clear statements, and it will be difficult to do any backpeddaling on this. And an undevided Jerusalem is a huge obstacle to any possible two state solution. It's not likely the palestinians will concede the arab inhabited parts of East Jerusalem to Israel in negotiations. Afaik not even Bush with his failed, stalemated Middle East policy, went so far as calling for an undevided Jerusalem. No, really, this isn't a good start.

by Gray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:27:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Words have consequences (none / 0)

Clinton took the same position a while back.

http://www.jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/news/art icle/20070912hillaryjerusalem.html

That doesn't make it okay or smart, but it's not all that out of the mainstream either. Personally, I happen to agree with your displeasure, but I understand that Obama is having to deal with irrational doubts about his support for Isreal.

by DPW on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:37:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Words have consequences (none / 0)

The US is a large country.

You have to say things you might not wholeheartedly believe or embrace to get elected. It's a varied (and not too bright) electorate.

The key is recognizing when it's political, to win, and when it's for real (McCain/Bush).

by Juno on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:55:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Words have consequences (none / 0)

I should also add that this was the position on the 2004 Democratic Party Platform:

http://www.democrats.org/pdfs/2004platfo rm.pdf

Search for the word "undivided," and you'll find the relevant portion.

Again, it's a bad position, in my opinion, but so uncommon.

by DPW on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:51:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Words have consequences (none / 0)

Good point, even though it makes me questioning the rationality of the Dems Middle East policy.
:-|

by Gray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:55:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Since you changed the subject (none / 0)

...from Iran to Jerusalem:

When he says things like "Jerusalem will remain the capital of Israel, and it must remain undivided," these aren't only buzzwords, these a clear statements, and it will be difficult to do any backpeddaling on this.

What Obama says about Jerusalem in this campaign isn't going to make squat difference to what happens. And, as in your other example, these too are just buzzwords for domestic consumption and hardly worth noting except as an aside.

The difference I expect between Obama and Bush/McCain with regard to Israel is that he will not encourage the zealot zionists to dig in their heels, but instead encourage those willing to negotiate for peace.

But telling Israelis and their American supporters that Jerusalem will have to be divided somehow, in the middle of a political campaign, would not only hurt Obama who is the real hope for a settlement, but harm the overall prospect of one by the intense visceral reaction it would engender.

Diplomacy doesn't always take place overseas.

Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.

by Freespeechzone on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:12:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Since you changed the subject (none / 0)

It's all in the same speech, so it's still the same subject. Ok?

by Gray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:20:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Since you changed the subject (none / 0)

Just because apples and oranges get mentioned in the same speech doesn't mean they're the same. And in neither instance, Iran nor Jerusalem, did you refute my points of contention.

Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.

by Freespeechzone on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:34:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

One man's buzzword... (none / 0)

..may be another one's declaration of war. So, buzzword,´shmuzzword, we're in the information age, and speeches like this one by Obama are read and interpreted all around the world. Politics is a serious business, even more so than advertising, and you have to be careful with words. People will hold you accountable, you can't blame them for taking you serious, and "buzzword" is a very lame excuse when the reaction on careless agitation is more dire than you expected. Hey, would you excuse Amadinejads regular hatemongering against Israel as simple "buzzwords", too? No, words have consequences, and nowadays you have to think about the possible impact before ranting away.

by Gray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:37:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

One man's "rant" (none / 0)

is another's carefully considered statement of principle.

I stand by my assertion that you are creating straw arguments which bear no relation to reality.

Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.

by Freespeechzone on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:43:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And I stand by my assertion that your "buzzword" defense doesn't hold water. Implying that Obama can be hawkish at an AIPAC conference, without this having consequences (in spite of negative reactions from all around the world), bears no relation to reality, imho.

by Gray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:56:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.

I think you're just trying to fabricate an excuse to attack Obama. Your comparison of him to Bush was certainly out of line. And it's simply ridiculous to expect any political leader to call for the partition of Jerusalem. Even the guy I voted for, Kucinich, never advocated as much.

I'm all for being on the political fringe, which is where I usually reside. But I'm not going to just make stuff up in order to advocate what I want.

by Freespeechzone on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:14:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Your comparison of him to Bush was certainly out of line."
In German weekly "Der Spiegel" a story about the speech today noted "reminds of Bush". Other international papers made similar points. So, Obama's reamrks had a widespread negative impact, this isn't something I made up.

"And it's simply ridiculous to expect any political leader to call for the partition of Jerusalem."
There's a huge difference between calling for something, tacitly accepting that it's a controversial point, and publicly stating that Jerusalem has to remain undivided, under Israeli control. While almost nobody stomps for the first option, most politicians stay in category two, but Obama went even further than Bush by going to the extreme.

"I'm all for being on the political fringe, which is where I usually reside."
A common problem with Americans, that they think the rest of the world is "on the political fringe".

by Gray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 03:40:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.

I suspect we're on the same team, but with slightly different standards.

by Freespeechzone on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 04:59:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: One man's "rant" (none / 0)

Amen, brother.
:D

by Gray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 05:31:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Balderdash. (none / 0)

Wasn't it you insisting Clinton wanted to bomb Iran with nukes?

'Twas me saying it was just political talk.

You see it now, huh?

by Juno on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 08:53:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Balderdash. (none / 0)

If you can't see the difference between what Obama said and "we could obliterate them," you need to take off the blinders.

But more importantly, you need to let go of Hillary. It's over.

Go back to Rush, where you've always belonged anyway.

Anybody's vote is worth having. But not everybody's vote is worth campaigning for.

by Freespeechzone on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 11:36:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama already shifting to the right (none / 0)

Standing in front of the Israel lobby, after being painted as a secret-muslim-jew-hater, yeah, I think we can forgive a little hard-talk from Obama.

by EvilAsh on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:59:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Forgiveness (none / 0)

"I think we can forgive a little hard-talk from Obama."

Sure. But this is not about what US voters will forgive,this is about international consequences. Fact is, many reactions all around the world about the saber rattling towards Iran was like 'more of the same we alreaqdy know from Bush", and the totally unnecessary Jerusalem statement was met by a harsh response from Abbas, and Ha'aretz, the newspaper of moderate and left wing Isrealis cited the official US response:
"State Department spokesman Sean McCormack also distanced the U.S. government from Obama's remarks, saying any final decisions on the toughest issues in the peace talks were for Israel and the Palestinians to make on their own. "

See? Now reasonable Israelis, who are willing to accept compromises for peace, have the impression that Obama is even more of a hardliner than Bush. And this will hurt Obama's chances at mediating between both sides. You may forgive this, but, forgive me, I see this as a very unfavorable and even dangerous development.

by Gray on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 01:52:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Forgiveness (none / 0)

I listened to the whole speech, and I didn't hear 'sabre-rattling'. What I heard was Obama speaking definitively about security. It's similar to many of his 'Israel' speeches in the past, but he dropped much of the nuance that characterizes those speeches.

Did he go too far? Perhaps. But the idea that one speech from Obama could damage our national image and standing in the Israeli/Palestinian conflict is a little alarmist. (Yes, newspapers there are reporting it as such, but the MSM in other countries aren't all that much better than ours.)

I mean, seriously, how much damage could Obama do after 8 years of Bush? It's not as if we've got far to fall.

by EvilAsh on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 06:20:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This SUCKS! (none / 0)

Food Is Gold, and Investors Pour Billions Into Farming
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/05/busine ss/05farm.html?exprod=myyahoo

Washington Woman
theocracywatch.org
EENR Blog

by kevin22262 on Thu Jun 05, 2008 at 02:27:16 AM EST