Absolutely. My head kind of spun at little at Fineman's analysis -- it made no sense! Also, dead on with 'she wants her moment'. I think to a certain extent rightfully so. But the sooner she wants to take that moment, the better.

Agreed on all counts, Todd.

Give her credit--there's never a dull moment!

but she could have been graciousness.  It was his night but she tried to grab the spotlight.  The idea of encouraging a petition drive for her as VP makes it impossible to believe she is psychically fit for the job.

I dont thinks it a big deal she didn't concede tonight either.

Maybe she could coordinate something with all the higher ups (like Pelosi, Dean, Reid, Roosevelt) in the party and do some kind of big endorsement of Obama later this week. this ways she shows she is moving with the party. It would be pretty cool.

I thought the night went well, no concession and all.

As a die-hard Obama supporter I concur completely.  While it would have been nice for her to conceed tonight, I understand why she didn't... and thankfully I don't think it will impact the historic nature of the night.

And yet as you said, if she hasn't conceded by the end of the week, the party (and especially the prominent Clinton supporters) need to step in and try to force the reconciliation that we desperately need.

the party together against McCain.

She chose to widen the chasm.

I hope she somehow pressures him into agreeing to let her push her health care plan in the 111th Congress.

I have a feeling its more about making back a little of that campaign debt, however.

tonights speech did nothing to get her there. Obama can't make her VEEP now that she's threatened to take her ball home if she doesn't get what she wants (and that was exactly what the speech was). It would be a sign of weakness... so tonight Hillary has ruined her own best shot at being on the ticket.

...people have been "wondering what she's thinking" for months now.

that won't change.

I do hope she conceeds but it doesn't really matter if she does or doesn't.  She'd just be hurting herself.

i don't have a problem with her not conceding as much as i have a problem with her making it sound like she's still fighting and willing to take it to Denver.

Most candidates in this position just give a short speech that doesn't address the issue and just quickly thank their campaign staff and give credit to the nominee.  And then, you expect the concession speech the next day.  The problem was, her speech sounded nothing like that.

But, you are right.  If she concedes within the week, it won't be that bad.

" I don't really get that, since VP would make her the presumptive nominee in 2016 and would enable her to have a high profile post from which to champion such issues as universal healthcare. "

Isn't being in the Senate a good place to champion issues since  she will actually be able to write the legislation instead of just asking for it as would be the case if she is in the exec. branch?

Tonight was about a historic moment, she made it all about her.

What candidate, forget Obama, put another face in his place, want to deal with that?  Really, who does?

She is just too much.  She is angry at not getting this nomination and she just need to be angry at herself for what happened.

Comparing Obama to Clinton is apples vs. oranges, don't see NO VP SLOT offered to her.

Fineman's an idiot. He always says some source told him something that turns out to be false. Everyone else close to Hillary says she wants VP.

I personally hope it doesn't happen.

I'm hoping for:

Schwietzer
Sebelius
Warner

the pundits said she would concede tonight ,

they were wrong again.

She would continue to run circles around them , defy them against the odds and march to her own beat.

Fineman's theory makes no sense.  He has proven himself to be full of shit on many other occasions as well, so I wouldn't give it much credence.

In the past I've doubted whether Hillary wants to be VP, but tonight convinced me.  That's what she is after.  We'll see what happens - huge upsides and downsides.

I cannot speak for other men or for other Obama supporters. What I can say is that when any candidate, male or female, adopts the position, "I'm entitled," they lose my respect and support.

"Personally, I don't think it's a big deal that she didn't concede tonight. Come on, tonight was Obama's night; she wants her concession to be her moment and hers alone."

The point is she distracted from "his" moment and continued to undermine him.

"I won, I won, I won and I'm not getting out." becomes the story. She had the opportunity to pass the torch, unify and strengthen the party in one master stroke while still holding on to her power and even increasing her power.

She blew "her moment".

Also by enumerating "what she wants" she gives the impression that Obama doesn't want the same thing when nothing could be further from the truth.

All this over the back drop of McCain's pitiful prebuttal speech in NOLA.

This would have put him back on his heels big time.

I feel for her, but when she pulls crap like this to undermine the party's nominee for "her moment" my blood boils.

there's only three days left this week.

start wondering.

If she really doesn't want to be Veep, then why is Lanny starting a petition?

start wondering.

....to put it mildly, has come to hold Senator Clinton in minimum high regard. she can do a lot more for the one issue where she has some credibility, (health care) and her reputation, as a Senator than as Vice President.

She wants to be president.  What she's going to find out is that there is no consolation prize which will compensate for this loss.  It will be a great sign if she's realizing that the VP slot would be a guided cage.  This wouldn't necessarily make her the presumptive nominee in 2016.  She doesn't need the bump in name recognition an unknown would.  This would, however, make it impossible for her to participate in the great issues of the day for the next eight years as anything more than a loyal soldier.  Sign of respect?  Not in the way which matters.

Now that the last race has been run, I think people will be surprised how fast she drops out of the news (if the Dems are smart would give her two weeks, tops).  She'll have her big night at the convention.  And her political future, to no small extent, will depend upon what happens in November (that she'll have one seems obvious, but what it will be is something I don't think anyone can predict today).

But there was a need to train her guns on McCain.

It was perfectly fine to tout her accomplishments and her never-say-die attitude. As Obama graciously put it, he is a stronger candidate because of her.

But she gave no indication that the real opponent moving forward is John McCain.  She acted as if she was still making a case for superdelegates to come to her. Her tone was ungracious.

She did not need to concede the election - not in a setting like that. But she should have been much more gracious toward the nominee. Instead, she looked like a sore loser. And that's something that will haunt her for a very long time unless she redresses that soon.

Nobody really cares if she concedes tonight or a week from now, just as long as she concedes soon and we can unite the party.

Oh and as far as VP.

She shouldn't take it and she shouldn't insist that it is offered to her.

She'll have much more power in the Senate now and can use it to leverage for her UHC plan, insuring her place in history for eternity.

She would also walk, into the White House in 2016, scratch that, be carried into the White House on velvet pillows.

VP would be beneath her and if I were Obama, I wouldn't want her around after she tried to undermine me in every way possible.

Lanny Davis is floating a petition to have her as VP.

But, here is a thought.  All of these Clinton people suggesting she has to be his VP are really realizing that there only path to continued power is to have her as VP.  There is a big difference to having a friend as VP and being friends with the Sen. from NY.  Even if it is Hillary.

I don't buy this notion that she wants her concession speech to be her moment alone. I mean, it is a concession speech! This is something you want to spit out and then go on your way.

Tonight was the night to give the concession speech. You give the concession speech when you lose. It was official tonight. Obama is the Democratic nominee. You may not like it, but you put a smile on and give your full support to your party.

This should have been Obama's night. We should not be focused on  Hillary. It is a historic night. Hillary basically blew it by not recognizing his victory.

It was interesting that in Obama's speech he stressed her work on Health Care and the poor which could be paving the way for a Secretary of Health and Human Services as a much more important cabinet position.

I used to think that Hillary wanted the VP slot to set herself up for 2016, but, I agree with Incognito, and I think Fineman may ultimately turn out to be right.  

Fineman convinced me when he said that Hillary would only be a VP if she could be Dick Cheney to Obama, and that is not going to happen.  Instead, she would have to play Al Gore to Obama, the loyal wingman.  I really cannot see Hillary willing to play loyal second-fiddle for eight years in an eight year plan to run for president in 2016.  She could run in 2016 without having to be VP and shape her own legacy.  

I think the VP talk is a bluff, to give herself more leverage in getting whatever it is that she really wants from Obama.  The question is, I don't think anyone has a clue what Hillary really wants.

She's queen of the armless. No pull.

Or would Obama be willing to barter the #2 slot for HRC's juggernaut general machine? Oh, wait, that's right. She has nothing but baggage.

"I don't really get that, since VP would make her the presumptive nominee in 2016 and would enable her to have a high profile post from which to champion such issues as universal healthcare."

The idea is that by 2016 we aren't going to be talking about health care in the same way because we can do a hell of a lot to change it before then.  Hillary knows that too.  It's not a pet project.  It's something we can do next year.  

Hillary 'lost' something this year.  But she's a high profile Senator from New York, one of the most famous politicians in the world, in the majority, with a Democratic president whose platform and goals differ very little from her own.  

First, she didnt ruin tonight for Obama.  Maybe here in the Blogosphere she didnt do what we Obama supporters wanted but she didnt go nuclear.  Trust me, read the news, Obama won this night.  I dont think Ive seen the word historic used so much.  This is what most people see.  The news is reading it this way:

Obama = Historic Victory, Awesome
Clinton = Whats the exit strategy
McCain = Who? (or Awful or Joke)

As for Hillary, she wants one night to herself and she wants some concessions that can actually be given.  So be it.  She has political pull right now but as Todd noted, she is on a short clock.

But when (and if) she does get her night and she does concede, I think we will all be pleased with how she does it.  I believe we will see graciousness, a call for unity and a devastating attack on McCain.  She does this and we are on our way.

My guess is Thursday night (Friday night is not a good day for big news - the whole weekend news dump routine).

she would have spent time attacking McCain and praising Obama. That is, after all, what VP candidates spend all their time doing.

I think that this speech by Clinton definitely lessens the chances of her getting the VP nod. I think she probably does want to be at least considered but I think she is going about it the wrong way if she thinks she has to force him to do it. Overall, it would have been a more joyous night if she had showed a bit more acknowlegement of the situation at hand and that probably stung Obama a little.

Yesterdays rant by Bill didn't help things either. while he  could have continued to rant against Todd Purdum the VAnity Fair writer and nobody would have thought that much of it but instead he brought it around to somehow being about Obama.

I do, however, hope it comes some time this week. If she still hasn't conceded by Friday, we really do have to start wondering what she's thinking.

My question would have been, what would it take for some people to realize that the Clintons are ready to scorch earth?  I have heard so many times that that would never happen because, well, they're just too good people, too good Democrats to ever do that.  And yet we had tonight's speech.

So we shall wait now for a concession/endorsement.  Friday.  Just as we had Friedman Units, perhaps we can call this a Todd-Unit.  How many Todd-Units until we all go, "Oh shit, they really are crazy!"

and see their disappointment when she concedes.

In that way, she and Bill are very much alike. That's why he wouldn't admit what happened with Monica (I know that's a touchy subject, but I'm serious). He's a smart guy. He knew he was going to get found out once the whole thing started, but he held out from telling her the truth because he couldn't stand to admit that he'd hurt her, and he couldn't stand to see her upset.

In a similar way, Hillary must by dying inside at the thought of a room full of thousands of people who have poured their hearts into getting her elected. Being in that room, and seeing them cry when she says the words, "I have suspended my campaign," and seeing them get mad when she says, "I endorse Barack Obama." Much as people talk about her own personal ambition, I think the feeling that she let all these people down is what is really killing her.

I wouldn't be surprised if she gives her concession/endorsement speech in a very small setting

It's all about her, and not unity for the Democratic party.

It's unfair of her, to drag both her supporters, and Obama's, into limbo-land until she feels "her moment and hers alone" has arrived.

This is amazing.

To summarize and paraphrase, Howard says that Hillary's campaign does not just want to be offered the veep slot (which they don't really want and will refuse), but they also demand that Obama NOT offer the veep slot to another woman.  Why?  He suggests that she feels she has earned the title of Tribune of the American Democratic Women.  Giving the veep nomination to another woman would detract from that for her.

Listen to it.  Amazing.

I don't believe the VP spot is what Hillary want's or needs. As a big supporter of her, the thing I'd like to see, is for her to stay in the senate, stay far away from Obama, but give all the help that you can to Obama during the election, but keep your independence from him. Obama without Clinton, will loose to McCain, so go ahead and campaign for him, but keep your distance, because after he's lost and has been regulated to that great democratic scrap pile, of failed standard bearers, along with Kerry, and the rest, then she'll be ready to win the nomination in 2012. If she waits until 2016, she'll be perceived as being too old. 2012 is her last chance. hang in there Hillary!!

LOL Did anyone catch Lanny Davis on Larry King?  He was in the room where Clinton gave her speech earlier and they were tearing down the setup. It was noisy and workmen kept walking behind him and getting in the shot.  During a cut away you could see him turn around like he almost got smacked.  I was laughing so hard I didn't hear anything anyone was saying.

And I am a Clinton supporter..but it was the comical beyond belief.

Not in front of that crowd. She'll sit down one on one with Obama, things will get hashed out, and she'll throw her weight fully behind him by the end of the week, and endorse in front of a friendlier crowd.

Her website shoots you to a donation form after you've submitted your form letter of support. She's got two more days to get some cash, and I don't blame her for trying for it.

I completely agree that her leverage is only going to last a few days though. Support is going to start to leak the longer she waits.

You wouldn't have known it by he way she made a point of trying to bigfoot the news cycle with her VP and, "I got more votes," nonsense. If she does want the VP, she and Bill have done her no favors in that regard over the past couple of days.

But Obama bigfooted her and McSame instead by launching his campaign against Bush III with one of the best non convention/inauguration speeches ever in front of a convention sized audience.

Here's to a history making day for America and the world.

Now lets see some REAL Obama/McBush polls!

SD's today:

Clinton: -7.5
Obama: 67.5

If she continues to hold out, she lose many more SD's...

We are such a rush... rush society. Relax, take a damn chill pill and let her leave with fucking dignity.  Please.  Ok we get it, Obama will be the Nominee.  Can she at least savor her last victory??? My God Howard Fineman, and the rest of these JOKES like Keith Olberman are gutter rats that are chasing a story that DOESN'T exist.

1 more thing.  Super Delegates are cowards.  Half of them don't even publicly announce, rather jump on the bandwagon when it's already left the damn building. lol...

I find it hard to believe she wants the VP slot. By aggressively and publicly strong arming Obama she has made it impossible for him to even consider her. He would look weak. How could he face up to the bad guys if he can get pushed around by the candidate he beat.

Having watched her speech it looks like she wants to stoke the resentment in her supporters and box him into a no win situation. He offers it he looks spineless if he doesn't offer it then her supporters will be even more pissed off.

I really thought that once there was a winner that she would do the right thing. Maybe I'm missreading it but she managed to sabotage his GE kick off speech. All the networks are talking about is Hillary. Historic win for Obama? Speech in front of 30,000+ answering McCains attacks? who cares. The Clinton Obama soap opera is so much more gossip worthy for the tabloid media and the punditocracy.

Is this the same Howard Fineman who said Elizabeth Edwards would endorse Hillary and campaign with her in North Carolina - another assinine statement from his supposed "sources."

Fineman's track record with this insider stuff is horrendous.

Rub a Magic 8 Ball for answers and you'll get better results.

She's so ham fisted that her leverage is imaginary.

If Obama chose her after all these manipulative and bullying  games in front of the whole world he would labeled a "capitulating appeaser."

I reckon she misjudged the swells and jumped anyhow.  Pride cometh before the fall.  The Hillary as VP meme is DOA after her most recent effort and it seems her inner circle knows it, from the looks on their faces today.

saying "I don't want to be VP" what you're supposed to do if you want the job?

I've seen indications from the Obama campaign that they want to take a good few weeks to decide on the VP, which seems reasonable; HRC may or may not be one of the people they're seriously considering - I don't know - but if they announce it this week it will look as if she's blackmailed him into giving her the slot, and that is something Obama should not and (I hope) will not accept. However, if she remains silent and refuses to concede beyond the few days' grace period people are ready to give her then I think she will come under enormous pressure from all sections of the party, including her erstwhile supporters, and effectively destroy her own political career as well as undermining the party. Obama may well promise to CONSIDER her for VP and various other sweeteners in return for her endorsement, but he certainly should not go further than that. She is really negotiating from a position of weakness, and if she doesn't realise that she's less of a pro than I give her credit for.

The Kabuki Theater would be important for Hillary supporters.  But I think she really would want it, unless she is sure he will lose now and be out of the way in 2012.

I've seen Fineman make so many dumb pronouncements why should this one be treated with special respect.

TOO OLD.  Hillary is borderline too old to be elected in 2008.  If Hillary ran in 2016 it would look like some fossilized FSU leader (or McCain who is too old for the job.)  What you seem to not get is that this is Hillary's only shot.  2016 will go to someone younger or same age as Obama.

Beeton says: "I agree with Chuck Todd: "she only has leverage this week.""

She's being forced out of the race EVERY SINGLE WEEK since Iowa.  It's amazing that she's still around.

If she doesn't concede this week, she'll still have leverage-- there's still DENVER, remember?

I don't understand why everyone LOVES to tell her what's the right thing to do.

Look, she earned it.  Didn't Kennedy, Obama's own hero, go to the convention many hundreds of delegates behind to challenge a sitting president?

I don't see how 2016 works.

She'll be 68. McCain is 71 and we have a lot of undercurrent noting that he is too old. I know women live longer and presumably healthier lives than a man so that HRC at 71 will be more vigorous and robust than McCain is now, but won't the same "too old" undercurrent apply to her too?

Only seems fair, right?  Represent EVERY voter?

Let HER night be a shared night like she made his.

I'm sorry to disrupt party unity, but the egotism simply has to stop.

Has anyone else read the shrub's congratulation message?  The first classy move I've ever seen out of him.  Quite a contrast.