Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Obama Now?

Senator Obama has passed the necessary threshold to win the title of (presumptive) Democratic nominee tonight. So, for the record, the guy just won my vote and support tonight, too.

Congratulations and a shout out to all of Obama's supporters and to the Senator from Illinois, himself. Let's move forward with the task at hand; let's work together and seek unity to kick some Rethug and Neocon ass in the Fall. It's time! In fact, it's urgent and way overdue.

I ask all the Clinton supporters reading this: How can you have any questions about what you're going to do now? Are you kidding me? Are you "insane?" Ask yourself these questions:

Do you want four more years of alienation and disrespect from almost every other country on the planet?
Do you want four more years in Iraq?
Do you want four more years of out-of-control healthcare costs, with more than 40 million Americans uninsured?
Do you want four more years with the U.S. being somewhere around the 30th best country on the planet when it comes to infant mortality?
Do you want four more years of challenges to Roe v. Wade?
Do you want four more years of Republican control over our Supreme Court appointees?
Do you want four more years of a Judicial Branch that's more interested in political thuggery than real justice?
Do you want four more years of virtually nonexistent gun control?
Do you want four more years of irreversible depletion of our ozone layer?
Do you want four more years of lip service--and nothing else--for substantive federal support of alternative energy initiatives?
Do you want four more years of obscene oil industry profits?
Do you want four more years of a financial services sector devoid of regulatory enforcement?
Do you want four more years of welfare for the rich?
Do you want four more years of the rich getting richer while everybody else struggles to pay the mortgage, to pay the rent and to put food on their table (if they are even able to do that now)?

My vote for the campaign slogan for the rest of the year? Paraphrasing a quote from Albert Einstein--the greatest thinker in many generations--who said it best:


"The definition of insanity: repeating the same action and expecting a different result."

If you're reading this diary, I have to ask you: Do you want four more years with a Republican in the White House? Are you insane? According to Albert Einstein, the answer is: "Yes!" Yes, you are!



Display:


Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (2.00 / 1)

Take gun control out of the list and I might be fine with it.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:32:57 PM EST

Do you want four more years without (1.00 / 13)

universal healthcare if Obama is 'elected'?


public option=not affordable for middle. It cant cover all affordably, google adverse selection for why
by architek on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:35:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

HUH? (2.00 / 3)


by Is This Snark on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:37:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I Am SOOO Glad (2.00 / 1)

yer evil doppelganger is history!  ;)


by RNinNC on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:34:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (2.00 / 5)

You're not going to get it from McCain?

Hell, it will get WORSE under McCain, not better...


Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin and Joe the Plumber...The Triad of Republican Irrelevancy.
by WashStateBlue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:37:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (2.00 / 1)

Obama's plan is seriously flawed. If he wins (which I doubt) he'll need to revise it or watch it die in Congress.


While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama
by bowiegeek on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:05:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (none / 0)

His plan is like one degree away from Clinton's.  Also, did you hear in his speech where he said that Clinton would be instrumental in getting us universal health care?  I think that's his olive brach to her - giving her a second chance at health care czar.


"It's not enough to say you'll be ready from Day One - you have to be right from Day One."
by schroeder on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:34:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama's health plan is RADICALLY DIFFERENT (none / 0)

than Obama's..

Read this article from 1994, the differences between then and now are really negligible. The media misinformation has been very similar too.

http://backissues.cjrarchives.org/year/9 4/2/clinton.asp

The talking points that Obama has been echoing on healthcare were taken from Jim Cooper, who is now one of his advisors on healthcare..

I know its unpleasant for many people to admit, but the big differentiator for many people that distinguished the Democrats was support for UHC. Obama doesn't have a viable plan.

And he has been using coercive tactics.. You can see the gloves coming off now that Hillary seems to have been almost neutralized.. (She as the Dem candidate was their big fear..)

He can't win without a viable healthcare plan.


public option=not affordable for middle. It cant cover all affordably, google adverse selection for why
by architek on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:47:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's health plan is RADICALLY DIFFERENT (1.50 / 2)

This architek guy needs to give it up or go join a pig right-wing blog.  THis is a progressive blog.  McCain is not progressive.  You attack Obama, you're helping McCain, hence you don't belong here.


by Democrat in Chicago on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:17:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama's health plan is RADICALLY DIFFERENT (none / 0)

With all the information available you're going to bring up an article from 14 years ago??? Come on dude, time to go home


by Djo Dos on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:37:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (2.00 / 1)

Hardly. He's going to try to open up a fresh stream of tax money to flood a price rationed system without first covering everyone. That means higher prices for all. Thanks but no thanks. Inflation is bad enough as is.

Also, it will go down in flames without a mandate. You can't force the insurance industry out of business at the drop of a hat. His candidacy wasn't a fairy tale, but his healthcare plan is.


While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama
by bowiegeek on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:43:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (none / 0)

You can't force the insurance industry out of business at the drop of a hat.

Why not?

(not to imply Obama's plan does this, but it should.  Mandates were always the worst thing about HRC's plan; they are a political poison pill that serves purpose beside than keeping the health insurance industry on ill-deserved life-support)


by leftneck on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:12:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Agreed. It also... (none / 0)

...cements the idea that health care is not a basic right of a civilized community.


by thurst on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:51:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (none / 0)

Why not? Because it's pretty much illegal... If that's his policy proposal, I'd say he needs to better choose his battles.


While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama
by bowiegeek on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:16:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (none / 0)

He's going to win.  If you want input, get onboard.


by GingertheDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:44:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (2.00 / 1)

Sorry, I'm not going to be cajoled or browbeat into supporting Obama...


While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama
by bowiegeek on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:44:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (none / 0)

Obama won't need to modify anything.  You comment assumes it is the President that has the ability to write, modify and pass legislation. The President can propose legislation, but ultimately it is Congress that has the power and authority to write and modify legislation as it pleases.  Do you honestly believe if HC reform emerges from Congress Obama will veto it b/c it isn't exactly what he proposed?  Please!  Don't insult my intelligence.

If he loses (which I doubt), health care reform is dead on arrival.  Do you honestly believe Health care reform is more likely under a McCain administration?


by radical686 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:58:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (none / 0)

As for insulting your intelligence, I have |-| <- that much interest in it. Secondly, I don't suppose he'd veto any legislation adopted by a Democratic congress no matter how bad an idea it is. It may be just like George W's first years except Democratic. Maybe.

McCain's idea of health care reform, while I disagree with it, may actually lower costs for everyone by removing the tax prejudice toward getting insurance through work and emphasizing making private, personal payments. Just for an impression of what's to come: that would sound a lot better to economically moderate-minded independents than throwing billions into the marketplace without making the necessary structural changes Hillary proposed. Even so, enjoy...


While I could sit in church and pray all I want, I wouldn't be fulfilling God's will unless I went out and did the Lord's work ~ Barack Obama
by bowiegeek on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:26:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (2.00 / 13)

His healthcare plan is better than Mccain's.

Mccain doesn't have any idea what he is talking about on healthcare , the man even voted against Schip.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:37:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (2.00 / 5)

Correction.  McCain doesn't have any idea what he is talking about on ANYTHING.  He's wrong on most issues, he doesn't even know his own policy on others (remember the interview on the plane where he had to tell a staffer to "look up" his previous position on an issue), and he forgets things all the time.


by ProgressiveDL on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:02:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (2.00 / 9)

Neither has a pure universal health care plan. However I will wager that Obama's plan get closer to Hillary's as we move forward.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:38:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (2.00 / 7)

Considering that it was one of their stronger points of disagreement, I believe compromise on their health care proposals will be forthcoming as the candidates and the party unite.


"This victory alone is not the change we seek -- it is only the chance for us to make that change." -- Nov. 4, 2008
by BobzCat on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:40:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (2.00 / 3)

He did say in one of the last debates that his plan was crafted 7 months before, and I think he admitted that Hillary's was better.  He also said that neither plan would pass as proposed.
    I'm hoping for big majorities in the House and the Senate, and a Clinton/Kennedy/Harkin/Feingold single payer universal health care plan.  In the first 90 days.
We have nothing to fear but fear itself. And clowns.
by haremoor on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:59:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, single payer is actually the superior plan! (none / 0)


McCain does Not support the troops
by hope monger on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:08:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (2.00 / 3)

Neither has that!  Read the actual plans.

You may like Hillary's better than Obama's, but they are both infinitely better than McCain's.


by rf7777 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:45:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain's Healthcare Plan (2.00 / 2)

in 3 words ...

DEAL WITH IT


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:03:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Need to see a doctor? (none / 0)

YOU CAN'T DO IT, MY FRIENDS.  

[The McCain Plan]


Go back to Hussein Texas
by gobacktotexas on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:54:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (2.00 / 3)

Clinton's plan is universal. Already read it and know it. I suggest you do the same before you make inaccurate statements. (Hint: "single-payer" and "universal" are not the same thing. You can have "universal" without the "single-payer" part.)


by LakersFan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:36:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (none / 0)

I predict a version of Hillary's health care plan gets passed as law.


by GingertheDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:45:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (2.00 / 2)

I also think Obama's health plan will be closer to Hillary's by the end of all of this.  

Honestly, both lack.  But it's going to take awhile to get to the real solution of Single Payer.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:52:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (none / 0)

I think that's the main difference between Clinton and Obama's approaches.  Obama admits that his is an intermediate step, and that the real solution can't be done overnight.  Whereas Clinton wants to try and get there all at once.


"It's not enough to say you'll be ready from Day One - you have to be right from Day One."
by schroeder on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:37:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

All are current plans are flawed... (2.00 / 2)

... because they leave it mostly to private insurance companies to provide coverage.  I would prefer to see expansion of Medicaid and Medicare into a real single payer solution, maybe with the option to opt out and take your benefit as a voucher toward private insurance for those who fear 'socialism'.


by protothad on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:06:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just a heads up, but you'll recall that (none / 0)

Hillary wasn't going to reform health care until her second term anyway.


by 79blondini on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:58:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just a heads up, but you'll recall that (none / 0)

Didn't Senator Schumer say that it was dead and isn't he in a position to know?

I wanted to make this a statement but I'm not sure so I'll ask.


Visiting the hopium dens proudly since 2007.
by AZphilosopher on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:14:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (2.00 / 2)

What's John McCain's healthcare plan?


by JustJack on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:08:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (2.00 / 4)

Don't get sick.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:56:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Architek - (1.77 / 9)

Stop . Enough. That's it - it's time for you to hang out at RedState. They support McCain one hundred percent. Your words are better suited there. Your time is here is done.
  Thank you.
I support our nominee President Barack Obama - and the Admins can't stand me, so I can't rec or rate. This is very mean if you were to ask me.
by TheFullBerry on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:09:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Jerome? Clean up in aisle 7!! (2.00 / 1)

Seriously, buddy, I cannot believe someone troll rated you for this.

I know we're supposed to back off and let people vent, but truly this "architek" person cannot even charitably be considered to be on our side, broadly defined.

If MyDD wants to escape its current doldrums, you're going to have to start banning the real trolls.  Please start with architek.  I think supporters from both sides would see it as a healthy start.


by McNasty on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:52:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerome? Clean up in aisle 7!! (none / 0)

LOL. Clean up in aisle seven had me cracking up.  I think the troll rate would have been okay before today - but now that we have our nominee - it's annoying to get troll rated for saying McCain support is not wanted on a Democratic site.  Thanks for trying.


I support our nominee President Barack Obama - and the Admins can't stand me, so I can't rec or rate. This is very mean if you were to ask me.
by TheFullBerry on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:14:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jerome? Clean up in aisle 7!! (none / 0)

"Clean up in aisle 7" most hilarious comment I have seen in a while, especially addressed to Jerome.


by Roberta on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:50:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Do you want four more years without (none / 0)

Are you suffering from amnesia? or have you simply forgotten when Clinton proclaimed she would accomplish health care reform in her second, not her first, term as president.

If you are going to continue to play this nonsensical, combative role, at least play it well.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:23:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

we can't always expect everything. (none / 0)

I read a book about the history of the healthcare system in this country and do you know that we have (in one form or another) been fighting for universal health care for almost 100 years?  Various groups have opposed it throughout history for various reasons.  It was a miracle Medicare passed at all.

We can't expect that we will suddenly "get" universal health coverage in the next presidential term (no matter who wins).  We have to do it incrementally.  We have to slow boil this frog, not just toss it in a bubbling vat.


by DawnG on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:22:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

why so glum, chum? (none / 0)

Clearly Hillary's gonna be tasked with healthcare in the Obama administration - it will be her plan (hopefully with modifications that eliminate penalties for NOT signing up) that will go through, not his.


Not this time.
by jedley on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:26:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama and gun control (2.00 / 1)

Lori,

Take a closer look at Obama on this. He is much more middle of the road. Yes he believes the government has a right to regulate guns but he also believes that the constitution guarantees a right to bear arms. I think gun control becomes a regional issue and needs regional solutions. What is right for rural communities and states that have long traditions of hunting is very different for what is right for large urban centers. I think there has to be a sensible middle between the NRA and those that think all guns be banned and I truly believe that is what Obama is looking for.


by batgirl71 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:11:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama and gun control (2.00 / 1)

I think 'gun control' is more about fighting the ludicrous lobbying by the NRA and less about actually restricting gun rights. The NRA has batshit insane stances on gun control (basically, "automatic weapons for everyone! Yes, that means children!") and Democrats have rightly fought against this. But I think that a majority of Dems want sensible gun policy, and do not want to take guns away from responsible adults.  

And I agree 110% on the distinction between rural and urban gun owners. Hell, if I lived on a farm you are damn right I would own a gun. Possibly several.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:28:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Because of things said like the following: (2.00 / 1)

Roger Simon Smears Clinton posted by rodham44  
06.04.2008 - 00:48 am  
Clinton was surprisingly ungracious.

Surprising if you're Keith Olbermann and you think Clinton should get on her knees and swear obedience to Obama.

You can all read the transcript or watch the video, but for the record I WAS THERE and Hillary began her speech by praising Obama AND his supporters. I think Obama a total dick head, along with most of his supporters, but I clapped politely with everyone else. There was NO booing AT ALL.

Roger Simon is a jackass. He goes on to quote two Obama aides saying (today) that Obama doesn't need Clinton supporters.

It has been a hard-fought and sometimes bitter campaign, but Obama is not, one of his senior advisers assured me Tuesday night, going to spend a lot of time in the next few months wooing Clinton supporters whose feelings may be hurting.

"I think there are always immediate feelings of disappointment and anger," Anita Dunn said. "But in the months ahead, he must appeal not just to the constituency groups who favored her in the primaries, but those he wants in the general election, and that includes independents and Republicans."

Another Obama adviser, who asked not to be identified, said that he was not worried that Clinton supporters would stay angry.


by suzieg on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:49:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

here's another: (2.00 / 1)

» Iphie's blog
Scenes from Hillary's rally this evening.
Submitted by Iphie on Wed, 2008-06-04 02:51.

Dem on Dem Violence Dems Who Don't Suck
If the race is over someone forgot to tell the people who stood in a line that wrapped itself around an entire Manhattan city block for 2+ hours this evening.

I was one of them. I arrived shortly before 7:00 (the tickets said 7:00), but thinking that like so many other election night events it wouldn't start anywhere near that time I was under the false impression that I would be there early. Nope. When I got there, the line already stretched around two sides of the block.

After about two hours in a very slow moving line (the Secret Service provided one of the most thorough, yet considerate, searches of my handbag that I have ever seen) we were told that the main hall was full to capacity but that we could watch it from an overflow room.

In the overflow room they had CNN projecting on a large screen (the lesser of all evils, I guess?). It was shortly after we found seats that I noticed there were some Obama supporters in the room. As we were watching some of the results come in they started cheering when Blitzer told us that Obama had enough delegates and had won the nomination. Whatever. But I should have realized that they were up to no good when they stopped cheering for Obama and one of them put on a Hillary button.

A woman in the crowd stood up and told us that if we stuck around after the speech was over, someone had told her there was the possibility that Hillary would come by when she finished up in the main hall.

So we watch the speech with occasional outbreaks of massive cheering from the crowd. Even if we weren't watching the speech in person, it was great to watch it with hundreds of other people who are equally invested in a Hillary presidency.

Most people stayed after the speech was over and a little while later staff came in and started setting up a rope line and someone tested the microphone -- I was exhausted, but I was definitely staying. At some point everyone crowded up to the rope even though Hillary had yet to be sighted. I did notice, however, that a couple of the girls who had cheered for Obama had managed to push their way right up to the front. I was standing about 4 or 5 people back. Finally both Hillary and Chelsea show up. I managed to get a few pictures -- a couple of good ones of Chelsea, but the ones of Hillary are pretty blurry.

After the initial cheers subsided a bit, the two of them started shaking hands and posing for photos. That's when the Obamabots who were standing directly in front of Hillary started chanting "Obama! Obama!" Hillary looked momentarily taken aback, but then kept going. The rest of us started chanting "Hillary! Hillary!" to try to down them out but I think most of us were taken aback as well. It's also kind of difficult to sustain shouting at the top of your lungs when there's a person standing three feet in front of you -- especially when that person is Hillary Clinton and you're shouting her name. So that died down, which is about when the group of them shouted "Concede, you liar! Concede!"

Wow. Just wow.

What would make a person stand in line for over two hours, then sit in an auditorium doing a whole lot of nothing waiting to hear a speech, then watch that speech surrounded by hundreds of cheering supporters of a candidate you are openly hostile towards, then sit around for another 45 minutes just so you can have an opportunity to hurl insults directly to a person's face? What would make someone throw away almost four hours of their lives for such a purpose? Party unity?

Not surprisingly, this seemed to be the reason that Hillary and Chelsea's visit with us was oh, so very brief. The microphone that was tested was never used, and neither of them walked the entirety of the rope line.

What is it about this man that turns his supporters into rabid little monsters?

P.U.M.A. indeed. I don't want to be in the same country with these people, much less the same party.


by suzieg on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:37:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Its easy, pull the lever for McCain (2.00 / 1)

There is a little black curtain around the voting booths in my state. When we step in that booth we are nonpartisan. We will think of the misogyny. The death threats leading up to the RBC rally last week. The death threats against black supers supporting Hillary. Obama's connections to anti Semitic black liberation theology, Obama trying to disenfranchise Latino voters in TX and NV.

I do not want to see Obama and his McCarthyist supporters taking control over the Democratic Party.

Obama supporters keeps telling themselves the party is unified and there is no way Hillary will be VP or have any role in the party after 2008.

The party is not unified and people will not just coalesce around Obama. Just remember 1980 and 1984.


Jon Winkleman
by Jon Winkleman on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:14:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You've put... (2.00 / 13)

...it better than any Obama supporter has, and it means that much more coming from such a staunch Hillary supporter such as yourself...Kudos and virtual rec from me...Man, it's gonna be nice having you on my side...<wiping sweat from my head>


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:33:45 PM EST

Oy. (2.00 / 1)

Obama supporters have been saying this for weeks.

Evn after everything that's happened in this campaign I was perfectly willing to support Hillary.

Why are Hillary upporters having a hard time being gracious to a FELLOW progressve Democrat who is not a mean asshole in any way?

You have treated this like a general election and have lost all perspective.

I'm glad a fellow Hillary supporter was finally able to get through to you though.


by Hesiod Theogeny on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:11:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

not a mean asshole, when his people sent (none / 0)

e-mails stating that hillary was staying in the race in case he got assassinated!


by suzieg on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:52:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you bobswern (2.00 / 8)

rec'd


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:34:15 PM EST

Hey bob (2.00 / 7)

kudos to you, though I can't use you anymore for when people say that I don't get along with ardent Clinton supporters.

Good on you.

Let's hope that Obama takes some of Sen. Clinton's best positions like mandating health insurance for all.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:35:42 PM EST

Great moments coming in the fall? (2.00 / 13)

Hey, even the most hard core Clinton supporters....

Ask yourself?

Wouldn't you like to see Sean Hannity's face at 3 AM, when they say:

"Fox news now calls New Mexico for Barack Obama, and he now has the Electoral votes.....

Wouldn't you like to see Pat Buchannan's face when an African-American puts his hand on the bible held by John Roberts and says:

"I, Barrack Obama....."

Come on, you KNOW you want to see that!

Rec'ed BTW....


Rush Limbaugh, Sara Palin and Joe the Plumber...The Triad of Republican Irrelevancy.
by WashStateBlue on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:36:20 PM EST

Re: Great moments coming in the fall? (2.00 / 2)

Not just Hannity- Savage and Rush. And O'Reilly.
Boy, is THAT going to feel good.
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:57:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great moments coming in the fall? (none / 0)

"The American people have just elected B. HUSSEIN Obama to be president....."


by nwodtuhs on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:59:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's Right. (2.00 / 2)

Barack Hussein Obama, President of the United States.


We have nothing to fear but fear itself. And clowns.
by haremoor on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:03:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's Right. (2.00 / 1)

Now, now, tomorrow is not promised to any of us.  Right now, the Republicans are cornered wild animals who are more dangerous than we might give them credit for.  Let's not count our platitudes before they're uttered: we've still got a hell of a summer and fall ahead of us.


by Jay R on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:34:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well... (none / 0)

He started it...


We have nothing to fear but fear itself. And clowns.
by haremoor on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:20:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Great moments coming in the fall? (none / 0)

take your own advice and shutdown backwards, dude


Not this time.
by jedley on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:28:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (2.00 / 7)

Good on you, Bob!


Torture me once, shame on you; torture me and get away with it, shame on us all.
by freedom78 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:39:53 PM EST

Ok great (1.66 / 3)

No apologize for ever having doubted all of us that have been telling you this for months ;)

Oh and denounce and reject alegre's last 12 diaries or you CAN'T join us. And can't vote for in in the fall.

jj

Thanks for being gracious.


by Is This Snark on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:40:05 PM EST

Re: Ok great (2.00 / 2)

Too soon, Is This Snark!  Too soon :)


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:16:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok great (2.00 / 1)

and you see, you are still the problem, one of many of them. It is not will I support Obama, it is that you and your ilk will always be known as trolls and jerks.


by zerosumgame on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:54:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok great (2.00 / 1)

This guy doesn't represent us.  99.9% of Obama supporters are your average friendly democrats.  I can't stop him but I can apologize for him.

Sorry.


McCain = bad Obama = good
by CAchemist on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:37:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok great (none / 0)

When Hillary won South Dakota tonight, she basically won all the states of Obama's biggest power broker supporters:

California - Pelosi
Massachusetts - Kerry & Kennedy
Nevada - Harry Reid
South Dakota - Daschle

This is why we have reservations about Obama!


by suzieg on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:10:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ok great (none / 0)

Either dishonest or stupid.

I would say that firstly, Neither Pelosi or Reid were his supporters, and secondly, who cares?

That's not a big deal. If it was, you should go with Obama anyways, because he won the states where most of her Super Delegates were from anyways..


Hell yeah we did.
by Darknesse on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:53:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good diary. (2.00 / 11)

All hands on deck; it's Democrats against McCain.


should we go outside? / should we break some bread? / are you'nterested?
by Firewall on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:40:45 PM EST

Re: Good diary. (2.00 / 1)

since you do not act as a democrat you have no standing to make any call on democrats.


by zerosumgame on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:55:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good diary. (none / 0)

Anyone who is rallying around the flag now can fight with us--now isn't the time to exclude willing supporters.


by Jay R on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:59:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Today, I am DAMN PROUD to be in the trenches with (2.00 / 12)


YOU!!!

I came up with values similar to those of comrades in the military - we can fight like cats and dogs but when we get the call, IT'S GO TIME!  That's how may family is, as well.

Today, I feel like I belong to one KICK ASS FAMILY, and all I have to say is...

Look out McCain, IT'S FRIGGIN' GO TIME, BABY!!!


To kill one person is murder. To kill thousands is foreign policy." - Chinese writer Moh-Tze
by ILean Left on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:44:31 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (2.00 / 7)

Thank you bobswern.
Looking at your list of questions...I can't imagine anyone voting for McCain (even Republicans!).

For that matter, I can't imagine anyone who has lived in this country for the past 8 years NOT voting for the Democrat (even Republicans!).

As I've said in other diaries this evening....
We are soooo gonna kick McCain's ass in November!

Good on ya!


by Kysen on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:45:42 PM EST

Much Love. (2.00 / 7)

To you and people like you, who see what is at stake.  Thanks.


by Mardarkin on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:46:22 PM EST

Re: Much Love. (2.00 / 1)

to bad so few alleged BHO supporters have never been able to see that.


by zerosumgame on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:56:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Much Love. (none / 0)

ever not never


by zerosumgame on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:35:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (2.00 / 7)

Class act.  Thanks and welcome.


by Shaun Appleby on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:47:33 PM EST

Obama or four more years (2.00 / 9)

...of torture and endless  imprisonment without trial, all done in our name as Americans.


the third eye does not weep. it knows.
by mijita on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:48:15 PM EST

Correction. (1.50 / 4)

Obama has passed nothing until the superdelegates actually vote at the convention, and a LOT could change between now and then.

I'll continue supporting Hillary until we actually have a nominee.


by leisure on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:49:31 PM EST

Go have a margarita or something,,,, (none / 0)

...and chill out.


by Hesiod Theogeny on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:14:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Go have a margarita or something,,,, (none / 0)

...and chill out.


by Hesiod Theogeny on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:15:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Correction: (none / 0)

DemConWatch has Obama's delegate total at 2161 right now. Lanny Davis,of all people, says Obama has won.


Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. -Voltaire
by kydoc2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:26:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I won't vote against Obama.... (1.11 / 9)

I won't vote. I'm sorry, but Obama has way too many secrets for me. I keep finding out stuff. The more I learn, the more concerned I get.


by soyousay on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:50:14 PM EST

Re: I won't vote against Obama.... (2.00 / 2)

Troll rating me won't change anything.


by soyousay on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:12:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't vote against Obama.... (1.40 / 5)

What?  Seeing that little "1" by your comment doesn't make you anymore rational?

Damn, I thought we had something.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:19:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't vote against Obama.... (2.00 / 1)

I have no problem you voting Obama. Good for you. Freedom is great isn't it?


by soyousay on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:27:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't vote against Obama.... (2.00 / 1)

Yes, yes it is :)


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't vote against Obama.... (2.00 / 1)

Great...there is something we can agree on.


by soyousay on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:01:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't vote against Obama.... (none / 0)

I won't vote.

Many Amercans have died for your right to vote. I am sad that you are going to dishonor their sacrifice out of petty spite.

I'd much rather you voted for John McCain than not vote at all.


by Hesiod Theogeny on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:18:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't vote against Obama.... (none / 0)

Many have died for freedom. You should respect my rights and not try to put a guilt trip on me. BTW, would you rather me vote McCain than not vote at all?


by soyousay on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:23:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes. (none / 0)

Please vote for McCain. It would convince me your bullshit claim that you are worried about Obama is legitimate and not a petty excuse to justify your narcissim.


by Hesiod Theogeny on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:09:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't vote against Obama.... (none / 0)

I will first grant your first notion just for argument:  Obama has got some mean skeletons in the closet.

Now, why is this a deal breaker?

There have been many great world leaders with great policies, great strategy who did bad things.  Bill Clinton and JFK had affairs while in office and they were both amazing Presidents and did great things for our country.  


McCain = bad Obama = good
by CAchemist on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:44:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't vote against Obama.... (none / 0)

While I obviously disagree: okay fine dangerous skeletons.

Question still stands with new type of skeleton.


McCain = bad Obama = good
by CAchemist on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:40:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I won't vote against Obama.... (none / 0)

Ha!!  Obama has too many secrets??  Let's not even go there.

HRC did a fine job of vetting him.

I guess you'd rather see McCain as President.

Buh bye!


by GingertheDem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:52:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks Bob (2.00 / 6)

Family fights can get ugly but both sides have nothing to gain by not reconciling.

At the end of the day, I think we're all going to realize we're on the same team.

I apologize if any of my remarks during the primary battle caused anyone discomfort.


by emptythreatsfarm on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:51:28 PM EST

Some of us aren't on the same team (none / 0)

I think there are trolls here. I think they will be easier to spot, now. But I think you're right, in that those of us who actually are on the same team will realize it now and move forward. And I'll follow your lead and apologize to anyone to whom I've been rude in the past couple of months. I get carried away. :)


Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. -Voltaire
by kydoc2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:32:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

natural troll extinction rates (none / 0)

Hopefully, a few of the prolific ones (it would be rude to name them, but they frequent No Quarter) will lose interest and fade into the woodwork.


by emptythreatsfarm on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:09:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hear! Hear! (2.00 / 6)

Phanton mojo and rec for this!  

Regardless of the [perceived] ick from both sides of the Democratic primary, we have to remember who and what is worse than it all:  McCain and a third Bush term.


by rf7777 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:53:19 PM EST

Re: (2.00 / 11)

Well done.  I feel personally humbled by the magnanimity of many of the Clinton supporters on this site, including bobswern, lori, canadian gal, angry mouse, sevenstrings, and others... mostly because - although I'd like to think otherwise - I'm not sure I would've been as magnanimous were the situation reversed.  Good on you for teaching me a bit about what it means to be a real progressive and truly committed to the cause.  The ideas we, Obama, and Clinton fight for are bigger than any of us.


by XoFalconXo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:53:22 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (1.85 / 7)

Bobswern -- I have to admit that I thought you were one of the dead-enders, with your constant referring to how the delegates don't vote until the convention.  Good on ya!

Diaries like this get me so fucking pumped to destroy the Republicans in November!  This is our time!


John McCain the flip-flopper...
by chinapaulo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:54:29 PM EST

I'm interested in theories (none / 0)

about why trytobereal troll-rated this. I would be especially interested in trytobereal's theory.


Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. -Voltaire
by kydoc2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:37:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (2.00 / 6)

Wow--coming from you this means alot. Thanks for this awesome diary.


by wasder on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:57:16 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (2.00 / 6)

Just wanted to say thanks, bobswern, for perfectly articulating why we can't afford a McCain presidency.  Great diary!


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:58:55 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters (2.00 / 6)

Great diary, Bob.
Now, let's go kick some republican ass.
"Who are you for? That is the wrong question. It should be who is for you?" HRC
by skohayes on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:59:25 PM EST

Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Obama (2.00 / 6)

Well said! Good, positive diary! rec'd


by BlueOrigin on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:00:58 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not (1.33 / 3)

I am relieved of the dilemma altogether.  My state will safely go Democratic, so I can without quandary not vote for Obama just because I really, really don't like him.

When I lived in California I didn't vote for Bill Clinton (the second time) because it didn't matter whether I did or not since no way was Calif. going to Bob Dole.

I will direct some time and energy toward our senatorial race here in Oregon, however.

For voters living in decidedly red or decidedly blue states, there is a greater latitude in not having to hold one's nose and cast a too-compromised vote.

Swing state voters, I understand that's a more complicated issue.


by Susan in Oregon on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:01:17 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not (1.00 / 1)

I am not going to vote for him either. I am indifferent to Obama. I really don't like the democratic party right now.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:09:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not (none / 0)

Fewer decidedly red states than there were in 2004 :)


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:20:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Waiting to Hear - - (2.00 / 1)

Obama say how gracious it was for Clinton to offer to be his vice-president.

Do you know how fast the nomination campaign will come to a close with a decision to have an Obama/Clinton ticket?

If Obama cannot see the political opportunity at this juncture,
he never will.

It very well may be a make-or-break moment.


by johnnygunn on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:05:43 PM EST

Re: Waiting to Hear - - (2.00 / 1)

the nomination campaign has already come to a close.


by JustJack on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:14:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Are you "insane?" " (none / 0)

I guess he did earn your support today.

...but, what, did his policy or himself change all of the sudden?  Right.  Well, that's how.


by LindaSFNM on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:05:45 PM EST

Amen (2.00 / 6)

Bob is one of the more hardcore HRC supporters around here. I never expected this type of support for Obama so soon.

Let's get on with it and beat McCain!


by elrod on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:07:06 PM EST

My faith in Bob is redeemed. (2.00 / 4)

I feel slightly less cynical right now.  :)  Or maybe it's just acid reflux.  Probably acid reflux.


by Dumbo on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:08:02 PM EST

Good diary. (2.00 / 7)

Another reason to oppose John McCain.  Here is John McCain endorsing the amendment banning gay marriage in Arizon:

Defeat John McCain, the man who hates poor people and admires Bush's foreign policy!


I'm a Rick-o-phobe.
by psychodrew on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:11:01 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (2.00 / 6)

Fantastic Diary.  While there will be the disaffected, I'm so encouraged at even these first signs of Unity.  It appears we will be on Track to destroy the Republicans in November, and turn a new page in this country.

My hope is that all of those currently uncomfortable with Obama as president will keep up the pressure on his administration for those positions they feel strongly about.  It's important that we all fight for what we believe in.  Of course here I'm talking about Policy, not ridiculous smears.

The Obama campaign wants to listen, so it's up to us to shout out our dreams.

Rec'd.


by Particle Noun on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:11:54 PM EST

Well done, Bob. (2.00 / 3)

So I suppose, technically, we're all Obama supporters now. Strange feeling. I guess it's not official until she concedes.


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:13:12 PM EST

You'll find out in November that we are not all (1.00 / 1)

Obama supporters. Not by a long-shot. There is going to be massive defections in the fall. You can count on it.


by mmorang on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:25:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ugh. Classy. n/t (2.00 / 4)


I'm only here to look for engels. Screw the rest of this big blue craphole.
by sricki on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:28:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You want classy? (none / 0)

Classy is having your people send out emails to all the reporters saying how divisive Clinton's comments were about primaries lasting until June. At the same time Obama is saying he takes her at her word. He was already annointed king, so why continue to trash her? Party unity I guess.

Or how about circulating a memo to all of the Obama staff with examples of things said by the Clinton team and how they can spin it into a racists comment.

Bill Clinton didn't say anything remotely racists, but Obama and company spun it that way... I guess to heal the racial divide.

Yes, Obama is all class and more.


by mmorang on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:42:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You want classy? (2.00 / 2)

You know what's really classy?

President John McCain and 100 years in Iraq. Making America the object of the world's hatred. Not caring about veterans. Not caring about torture. Overturning Roe v. Wade. Continued support of policies like Don't Ask, Don't Tell.

That's real classy.


by pomology on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:50:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The reason the the Clinton's are popular with gays (2.00 / 1)

is that "Don't ask, don't tell" while definately flawed, was a big step forward for that time. Bill Clinton took a lot of heat for it and Dem's lost seats because of it. Bill Clinton took some political hits and showed courage while doing the right thing.


by mmorang on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:00:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The reason the the Clinton's are popular with (none / 0)

I said nothing about Don't Ask Don't Tell when it was passed, but about it's continuance. The country has come a long way since 1992. Did you see the Republican Youtube debate? John McCain told a retired gay Brigadier General that he thought it was a great policy. Now if that's not true class, I don't know what is.


by pomology on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:03:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No it wasn't (none / 0)

I'm involved in the gay community, they DO NOT see Don't Ask, Don't Tell as a big step forward for them.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:25:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No it wasn't (none / 0)

Many of them saw it for what it was when it came out: a big step forward.

Now the ball can and should be advanced further but to deny that it was a step in the right direction is silly. Even bringing the subject up is politically risky.


by mmorang on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 05:56:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Then all Americans lose. (2.00 / 1)


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:46:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A vote for Obama is a vote for the (1.14 / 7)

crooked process, and a vote for the biased media.  Iit would be a justification of Matthews, Noonan, Rich, and Olbermann.


by handsomegent on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:15:42 PM EST

Re: A vote for Obama is a vote for the (none / 0)

I'm meeeeeeeelting!  Meeeeeelting!

I couldn't resist.  Best of luck to you in the coming 8 years.  I hope it will be as politically fulfilling for you as it will be for me.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:23:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A vote for Obama is a vote for the (1.00 / 2)

Thank you, is that I'm melting a reference to Hillary's being a witch?  Thanks, you might have gotten a new McCain voter.


by handsomegent on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:27:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A vote for Obama is a vote for the (2.00 / 2)

Haha, no that "I'm melting" is for you.  Hillary is going to be fine.  Probably run the Senate for the next 8 years, and then hopefully run again.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:53:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A vote for Obama is a vote for the (none / 0)

It didn't sound that way. Besides a vote for Obaam is exactly a vote for those I've listed.


by handsomegent on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:42:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A vote for Obama is a vote for the (none / 0)

Well, good luck rejoining reality.  Hillary, Obama, and I will be waiting for you.


John McCain is surprisingly bad for this country
by minnesotaryan on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:45:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

See how much easier they are to spot, now? (none / 0)

But minnesotaryan, I think trolls turn to stone in the sunlight, not melt like the wicked witch.

BTW gent, LOVED the deliberate misinterpretation of Mryan's comment, almost as much as the implication that you weren't already gonna vote R in November.


Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. -Voltaire
by kydoc2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:49:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: See how much easier they are to spot, now? (none / 0)

There wa no misinterpretaion at all sweetheart.


by handsomegent on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:46:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (2.00 / 3)

Bob, thanks for your gracious attitude and support for our party's nominee.  May you be an example for others!

No matter what differences we've had in months past, it's time we start uniting against the real enemy of progress and reform, John McCain.  Thanks for making that commitment.


by Jay R on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:22:20 PM EST

A smug Obama fully expects Clinton supporters to (1.16 / 6)

support him inspite of his team attacking the Clinton's PERSONALLY and despite his deliberate race-bating tactics.

Many will support him but many will not, and for good reason.

Others don't think it's such a good idea to have someone in the oval office who only has about one year of national experiece.

Some don't like a rigged contest where FL and MI were taken out of the game. Had they not been we wouldn't be nominating our least accomplished and most inexperienced candidate ever.


by mmorang on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:22:42 PM EST

Re: A smug Obama fully expects Clinton supporters (none / 0)

Right.  Contests like Florida and Michigan, where even HRC said "we know this isn't going to count for anything" were "rigged."

So sad.  I don't know what planet some of you people live on.  Come visit us in Reality some time.


by erzeszut on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:51:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

do not feed n/t (none / 0)


Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. -Voltaire
by kydoc2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:51:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: A smug Obama fully expects Clinton supporters (none / 0)

Agreeing not to campaign there is not agreeing to leave them out of the voting. What else is a candidate to do in that situation that they didn't create?

Obama supporters in the legislatures blocked a revote even though private funding was obtained to pay for it. He wisely chose to block the revote because he knew he would lose.


by mmorang on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:00:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Look forward to seeing Obama on his own (1.00 / 3)

so he can speak without people screaming "Hillary, stop tearing him down!"


by catfish2 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:23:14 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support (none / 0)

I'll vote for him, but I can easily not "support" him. I will only support a candidate who supports the issue that's most important to me: Universal Health Coverage.


by LakersFan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:39:22 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support (none / 0)

This.

I won't vote for McCain.  But I have very little faith that Obama will address the issues that matter the most to me - UHC and our returning vets.  It is beyond reason that we have anyone in this country who can't get health care and it is beyond the pale that our returning vets are being tossed aside like trash.  


by JustJennifer on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:58:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support (none / 0)

Not voting for Obama is just making it easier for a McCain victory. McCain's policies on health care are disgusting and so is his lack of care about veterans (despite the fact that, you know, he is one.)


by pomology on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:00:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support (2.00 / 1)

I didn't say I won't vote for Obama.  


by JustJennifer on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:26:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support (2.00 / 1)

If that's what we get, that's what we will take. Your vote is all we can ask, anything beyond would simply be cake.


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:12:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support (2.00 / 1)

That's really short sighted. See, I'm an active,  lifelong Democrat who advocates for issues and candidates and volunteers. I bug people to vote, and send them articles to influence them, and correct them when they're misinformed on issues. My support can be worth much more than my one vote.


by LakersFan on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:26:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Awesome. Your support would be great, too. (none / 0)

Did you hear Obama talking about Clinton and health care tonight? Watch this space. I think Obama's ideas on healthcare are moving in a direction you would like. And with you as a vocal member of the coalition, championing your causes, maybe things will move even more to your liking.


Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. -Voltaire
by kydoc2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:56:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Awesome. Your support would be great, too. (none / 0)

I didn't hear any of the speeches. But that sounds like hopeful news. I really would like to be more enthusiastic about the GE.


by LakersFan on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:06:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support (none / 0)

I'll tell you up front, I'm not voting for McCain. Having said that, I believe that a Dem congress and the Republican McCain has a much better chance of getting Universal Healthcare. Why? Because it's like Nixon going to China (only a staunch anti-communist could do it) or Clinton balancing the budget (only a moderate/liberal Dem could have talked a Dem congress to vote for it).

McCain is a different kind of Republican. He almost left the party and joined us in 2004. He could get his face carved on Mt.Rushmore if he signed off on universal healthcare...and he might do it. He will surprise some people by moving to the left on many issues. A lot of Republicans already hate him so he has nothing to lose.

I will not be voting for anyone because I will not support race-bators....unless Hillary is on the ticket.


by mmorang on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:25:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support (none / 0)

Please don't repeat the "McCain as Maverick" meme.  It is just not true.

McCain has supported Bush's initiatives 95% of the time.

McCain = Bush = the neo-con wing of the Republican party.

In 2000, McCain had a legitimate claim to being a different kind of politician.  Now, he's just Bush the Third.


by erzeszut on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:54:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I can't abide McCain (none / 0)

I can't abide Obama.  

What am I to do?


Our long national nightmare is over.
by Beltway Dem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 08:57:13 PM EST

Re: I can't abide McCain (2.00 / 2)

You don't have to vote for McCain or reward race-bating and PERSONALL attacks by voting for Obama.

You can support the down-ticket candidates and send a message to the "leaders" of the Democratic party to not rig any more elections and to not put their collective thumbs on the scale for Obama while disenfranchising millions of voters.

This election has been a complete sham.


by mmorang on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:04:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

A Complete Sham (2.00 / 1)

Woohoo, overreaction!


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:10:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We might as well be a Bananna Republic (none / 0)

considering the way this election has gone.

SC was moved up because of the large AA population. FL and MI were taken out of the game. Had they not been, we wouldn't be nominating our least accomplished and experienced candidate EVER!!!

Yes, RIGGED!!! And, no, not an overreaction.

The Democratic party will suffer for this blunder. They will bleed members.

To borrow from the great Rev Wright, Obama and the Democratic party rode Hillary dirty...and many of her supporters will not forget it.


by mmorang on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:17:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Correct me if I'm wrong sandy, but..... (none / 0)

The primary schedule was sent to favor HRC (a front loaded schedule always favors those with higher name recognition), Florida and Michigan had their delegates stripped with the help of Harold Ickes, and the HRC campaign had no plan after Super Tuesday.

Other than that you are correct.

And by the way your doctor called and wanted me to remind you that you were supposed to take all the medication.


"You might well think that. I couldn't possibly comment"
by xenontab on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:51:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Stop looking for perfection (2.00 / 1)

and judge which will be better, or less worse, whatever your point of view is.


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:09:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama wants my vote? (none / 0)

I am afraid he will have to earn it.  This yellow dog has resigned as an automatic Democrat.  I may stay home on election day.


Our long national nightmare is over.
by Beltway Dem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:13:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

At Least Vote Down Ticket (2.00 / 1)

and listen to Obama over the next few months before you give up on him completely. Also, listen to Clinton over the next few months - she'll be supporting him. It's for the best.


by RNinNC on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:17:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

wow bob.... (2.00 / 3)

you blow me away. I did not expect this.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
I support our nominee President Barack Obama - and the Admins can't stand me, so I can't rec or rate. This is very mean if you were to ask me.
by TheFullBerry on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:07:34 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: (2.00 / 4)

Bobswern, while I do not take back some of the things I have said, I do apologize if I have been overly harsh at times.

Intra-family spats are usually the most painful.

Thank you very much for what you've said.  It means a lot.

Let's go kick some ass, shall we?


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:11:21 PM EST

Yay!! (2.00 / 3)

This diary is exactly what I hoped to see when we got to this point.  We just can't get caught up our petty differences when there's such an important fight to win this fall.


by Gene In PA on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:14:18 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can (1.60 / 5)

Fucking HUGE rec for this diary.  You are classy!


Obama/Adam West or Bruce Campbell or Lucy Lawless '08
by Purple with Green Stipes and Pink Polka Dots Dem on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:20:20 PM EST

Hard Decision....But Glad You Made It (2.00 / 4)

Bob:

Ive been in your position in every previous democratic presidential primary (96 doesnt count much for me with Clinton being the incumbent and not an open primary in the real sense).  So I know how hard it can be.

I know the disappointment when you have passion for a candidate and an equal amount of concern about the other candidate(s).

I loved Bradley and Dean.  I was lukewarm to Gore - I didnt think he would win due to Clinton fatigue - and by that I mean general political cycle stuff, not personal stuff.  And Kerry, well, lets just say in my heart I knew we lost when Kerry won (nothing against Kerry but he just didnt have 'it' in my opinion).

But every time Ive accepted the results and moved on and done what is necessary on my part to get a D in the white house.

I think this cycle is even more difficult with such a great field of candidates and the final two who bring amazing abilities to the table and extremely high chances of winning the white house.  As an Obama supporter I would freely admit Clinton would crush McCain in the general just as I believe Obama will.  So I had no real argument in my mind to sway Clinton supporters - Clinton was solid and would win.

My only real problem is that with the protracted cycle we have allowed ourselves to become too tribal (myself included).  I mean as D's weve known enough about Obama and Clinton in a substantive sense from back in January and the rest has been bickering on issues that arent core to what D's stand for.  I mean all weve talked about is snipers, fingers, pastors, white people, black people, sexism, racism and every other ism out there.  But nothing on real substance.

So weve just further deepened our distrust and hate.  And thats why it will be a while before those fissures are healed and we all need to be patient with each other.  For some they wont be healed and I feel sorry for them.  But each has to make their own journey.

All I can say is welcome aboard, I know its a tough road but were glad to have you and I hope you can come to see Obama in the way many of Obama's rational supporters do and get excited about trouncing McCain and bringing the white house back to the D fold.

Thank you for a great diary.


by pattonbt on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:26:36 PM EST

Thanks Bob, I knew you had it in you... (2.00 / 3)

I couldn't stand living four more years under the Republicans.  We're going to do this.  We're going to win.  We are going to change this country!


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:31:51 PM EST

Woot! (2.00 / 4)

Welcome aboard bobswern!


by Same As It Ever Was on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:34:42 PM EST

Thank you, Bob! (2.00 / 4)

I haven't agreed with you much of late, but tonight I'm proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with you as this race turns the next corner and heads for the real prize in November.

I'm not saying "welcome aboard," because we've been on the same bus all along, really...just in different seats, but going the same direction.

Here, come take this seat next to me, brother...it's gonna be one hell of a ride for the next few months!


Ceci n'est pas une <<snark>>
by ipsos on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:44:41 PM EST

Please - only congress makes laws (none / 0)

which is why a veto-proof Senate and a majority in the house is important, perhaps moreso, than the Oval office.  That's how the process works.

The political process works by compromising and uniting -- which means to unify the party and to get this household's vote --- Hillary must be the VP.

Otherwise, she's our write-in and we vote the rest for the party


by dcrolg on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 09:52:29 PM EST

Re: Please - only congress makes laws (none / 0)

If you live in an electorally competitive state, writing in HRC's name is the same as voting for John Mccain.

But if you want 100 more years in Iraq and a Supreme Court that will overturn Roe v. Wade, by all means, go ahead.


by erzeszut on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:57:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (1.50 / 2)

I'm sorry but he's unqualified!  I want Hillary to be president now or 2012!  She'll be too old in 2016.  Sorry!


by WAREHOUSE553 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:27:00 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (none / 0)

I understand that's what you want.  However, please understand -- at this point, the game is over.

Hillary will NOT be the nominee in 2008.

The quicker that you and the rest of the hardcore Hillary supporters realize that, the sooner we can worry about kicking John McCain all over the map.


by erzeszut on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:58:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (none / 0)

The great philosopher Jagger has a theory pertaining to what you want.


by Jay R on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:07:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Neither of which (none / 0)

will happen


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:00:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (none / 0)

I'm sorry, but the man is qualified.  He will craft a cabinet of the best and brightest minds available.     The man is brilliant, charismatic, and his judgment on important issues has been sound.  The idea that he's not qualified is shallow and ill-thought and needs to be put to bed.  


by Sorryman on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:05:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (none / 0)

What do you base "unqualified" on or do you want to write McCain's talking points?

More importantly, ROE V. WADE!!  

People come on.  Justice Steves is 88 years old.  He wants to retire. So does Souter and Ginsburt.  Do you want McCain putting Scalia clones in the Supreme Court.

Even if he were unqualified, which he's not, I don't care.  I'm wouldn't risk a woman's right to choose just for my candidate to have another shot at it.  


by GingertheDem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:07:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (2.00 / 2)

"The definition of insanity: repeating the same action and expecting a different result."

Good one but my slogan would be from Celes Chere from Final Fantasy III/VI:

"You want to live in this world the way it is? No? Then do something about it!"


by BlueEngineerInOhio on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:31:19 PM EST

Re: Ya shoulda thought about that before (1.50 / 2)

Um.

He's been a very ardent supporter of Senator Hillary Clinton.

You are a particularly shitty troll.

DIAF.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:45:40 PM EST

Re: Ya shoulda thought about that before (none / 0)

Reaper, I am sorry to have to tr ya.
I had initially mojo'd you....but then looked up the meaning of DIAF.
I cannot in good conscience rec that.
Since you cannot change a rating back to 'none', I am stuck with few options (1 or 0).
I will uprate you elsewhere.
Peace.
by Kysen on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:55:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ya shoulda thought about that before (none / 0)

It's not a literal comment, it's an Atriosism, originally started as overstated scorn for comic effect and all that. Now it's just an expression that doesn't actually mean the person physical harm.


by Windowdog on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:04:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

did you HEAR her? (none / 0)

It's EASY for me not to support BO when SHE may take this to Denver!!!

I hope she does!!!


by nikkid on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:49:06 PM EST

Re: did you HEAR her? (none / 0)

OK, on the flip side, what if she "suspends" and starts campaigning for Obama, and even endorses him.

Will you vote for him then?


by erzeszut on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:56:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: did you HEAR her? (none / 0)

i have said all along - IF - she is the VP, I will support him.


by nikkid on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:33:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What if she doesn't want (none / 0)

to be VP.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:59:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What if she doesn't want (none / 0)

VP would be more of a demotion from her Senate career. IF Obama were to win and IF he got two terms...Clinton would be only two years younger than John McCain in 2016....so there is no VP to presidential candidacy in it for her.

Being the true blue democrat that she is she has already stated that she is willing to do whatever it takes, whatever they ask of her and if the party sees she needs to be the VP in order for Obama to win I'm sure she will take the demotion. I don't think she should have to and I'm sure Obama would rather it doesn't come to that.


by Justwords on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:23:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: did you HEAR her? (none / 0)

Otherwise you won't??  Why support HER in the first place?  Is it policy related at all!??  Have you no understanding of what is at stake?  


by Sorryman on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:00:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ya shoulda thought about (1.00 / 1)

Um.

He's been a very ardent supporter of Senator Hillary Clinton.

You are a particularly shitty troll.

DIAF.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:50:39 PM EST

Re: Ya shoulda thought about (none / 0)

Reaper, I am sorry to have to tr ya.
I had initially mojo'd you....but then looked up the meaning of DIAF.
I cannot in good conscience rec that.
Since you cannot change a rating back to 'none', I am stuck with few options (1 or 0).
I will uprate you elsewhere.
Peace.
by Kysen on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:55:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters (2.00 / 1)

Any Clinton supporter who doesn't vote for Obama in November doesn't understand how important the Democratic Party's control of the Executive Branch is.  One small example: the rule to protect the highly endangered right whale by making commercial vessels go slower in their waters is being held up by the Administration.  In a Democratic Administration, headed by ANY Democrat, that rule would be operative already.  There are hundreds of other examples like that.

I have not been an Obama supporter, and while I was not a Clinton supporter, I deplore the sexism and downright misogyny that she has been drenched with for the last year - I will never go back to Daily Kos for that reason.  But I will happily pull the lever for Obama - just as I pulled it for Bill Clinton even though I had doubts about him, and just as, I'm sure, many Democrats voted for Kennedy despite their doubts about him.   We have got to get back control of the executive branch if we are to have ANY hope of doing anything real about the environment, judicial appointments, you name it.  

Clinton supporters have to get past the meanness and tawdriness of the primary season and remember what we're up to here - we've got to sweep the Augean stables clean after November, and we've got to have the Democrat in charge to have a chance to do it.


by geordie on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:19:28 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (2.00 / 2)

I saw the Clintons tonite, and they all signed my ticket! It was awesome, Chelsea was so down to earth, as was Hillary, while Bill was frantic trying to shake everyone's hand who reached out. People were going crazy, like at a boy band concert or something. I told them all to take it to the Convention, tho I really didn't mean it too whole heartedly. In reality, I went on the website, told her to wait a few days, let this set in for Clinton supporters so they could vent their anger to their friends, themselves, and then Hillary should come out to Obama.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:33:09 PM EST

She should come out to Obama? (none / 0)

What kind of rumors are you trying to start? ;)

Seriously, though, your comment helps me imagine what that event must have been like from the inside...I would have liked to see her endorse tonight, but that really wasn't the venue for it, was it?


Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. -Voltaire
by kydoc2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:05:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'll admit (none / 0)

I DO NOT like Hillary Clinton...my opinion of her has plummeted in recent months.

But she won South Dakota, she will get anything she wants except the nomination.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:58:31 PM EST

Re: Ya shoulda thought about that before (none / 0)

What planet do you live on!??  She's the one that has run as if Karl Rove was whispering in her ear.  I believe her own campaign referred to it as the "kitchen sink."  My goodness, I guess love is blind, but what you don't seem to understand is that the candidate you love stands for the things Obama will go onto champion.  Can you not see the madness in your response?  Can you not see what is at stake?  


by Sorryman on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:10:16 AM EST

How Can We Not Support Obama? (none / 0)

Because he's not fit to be President.  Everyone says it's time to put aside partisanship.  Well, folks, what's more partisan than to support someone simply because he made a cynical decision to check the box labelled "DEM" at some point because it suited his political ambitions?

There's nothing in Barack's background, or his behavior during this campaign, to suggest that he has enduring beliefs.  Other than, possibly, a belief in his own entitlement and the importance of winning over everything else.  That's not enough to earn him my loyalty as a Democrat.  


by miker2008 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:02:17 AM EST

I find your position a little bizarre (none / 0)

No evidence of enduring beliefs? He's had consistent positions throughout the race...which are congruent with the books he's written...and his behavior throughout his public career...

Remember his speech about Iraq, when so many of the then-Senators who were candidates this cycle voted to authorize the invasion?

Democrat/republican is not the only kind of partisanship, mike. Obama is much more fit to be president than McCain. Our military, active and vets, will suffer incredibly from a McCain presidency. He's said that Roberts and Alito are his models for ideal Supreme Court justices. His economic policy was largely crafted by a lobbyist widely considered to share a good bit of the blame for the crazy shenanigans the mortgage industry got into that led to the current meltdown. Obama was warning of the mortgage meltdown over a year ago. He has articulated a responsible approach towards getting un-stuck from Iraq and revitalizing the military. He will not appoint neo-alitos and neo-robertses to the SC. Is all that enough to earn him your loyalty? Or at least just your vote?  


Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. -Voltaire
by kydoc2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:17:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I find your position a little bizarre (none / 0)

"Remember his speech about Iraq, when so many of the then-Senators who were candidates this cycle voted to authorize the invasion?"

My point exactly:   In 2006, Obama stated that his position on Iraq was not all that different from President Bush's, and his Senate votes on funding the war have been identical to Clinton's.  


by miker2008 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:44:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

In a word, (none / 0)

bullshit.


Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. -Voltaire
by kydoc2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:54:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I hate it when I make typos in a zinger (none / 0)

Oh, well. This is what I was trying to link: Obama's 2006 floor statement on Iraq

His position has been consistent, from pre-invasion to the present. His votes have been consistent with his position. Face it.


Doubt is not a pleasant condition, but certainty is absurd. -Voltaire
by kydoc2 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:59:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

How Can We Not Support Obama? (none / 0)

Because he's not fit to be President.  Everyone says it's time to put aside partisanship.  Well, folks, what's more partisan than to support someone simply because he made a cynical decision to check the box labelled "DEM" at some point because it suited his political ambitions?

There's nothing in Barack's background, or his behavior during this campaign, to suggest that he has enduring beliefs.  Other than, possibly, a belief in his own entitlement and the importance of winning over everything else.  That's not enough to earn him my loyalty as a Democrat.  


by miker2008 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:10:18 AM EST

4 more years of Bush policies will bring America (none / 0)

to her knees.

We ALL need to do everything we can to elect a Democrat to the WH in November


by AmericanUnity on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:16:30 AM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (2.00 / 1)

Easy. If you live in a red state you can vote your conscience and vote for every democrat on the ballot but not cast a vote for president. In a blue or purple state you can do the same thing because the Obama-bots will tell you they don't need your vote anyway. If there is enough drop off between the presidential vote and say the senate vote in your state it will show up as an anomalie that the bloggers and pundits will have a great time trying to explain. In TX that is what I am going to do.  

Of course if Obama offers her the VP I am screwed because I will have to vote but frankly I don't think that is likely.


by Bornagaindem on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:33:30 AM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (none / 0)

You're going to start getting REAL lonely around here...  This is where real democrats are going to support the real democratic nominee, Senator Obama.  There's plenty of pig right-wing blogs for you to join.  You might even find some of your TX friends there.

Sincerely,

A REAL Democrat


by Democrat in Chicago on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:44:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton (none / 0)

exactly right.

I will vote Democratic in all down-ticket races, just not for Obama.


by WolfmanJack on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:02:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (none / 0)

The same way we didn't support him yesterday, the day before and the day before.  He is inexperienced and a shill for the corporations.  He is a puppet.  He does not have my vote nor the vote of many family members and friends in CA and Ohio (a swing state.)  All this now means is that we have only one choice in November, McCain.  I just contributed to his campaign and have switched party affiliation.  Good luck with your new 'coalition'.  


by jmcdade on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:41:33 AM EST

CA swing? (none / 0)

CA voted republican for many years until Bill Clinton won it as a blue state in 1992 and everyone 'assumes' it's a strong blue state but much of it is very red and purple. I did not feel the need to vote for anyone in the presidential election this Nov, however they are managing to put the initiative to ammend the constitution to ban same sex marriage in Nov's ballot. That will energize the republicans and other conservatives. CA may be a very interesting state this November and most Dem candidates don't bother to do much campaigning here. By polls, the initiative seems to be losing but past polls showed the bans to be losing before they passed.
I guess if you add to that the pro amnesty (but tighter border controls) that McCain endorses more than the dems- the state is nearly 35% hispanic and swing voters and fighting hard not to separate families who may have an illegal grandparent but natural born children and grandchildren. Yep- CA could be very interesting.
by Justwords on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:55:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (none / 0)

I am blown away by the lack of logic and rationality in the thought process of a Hillary supporter who would switch to McCain. They are polar opposites.

Everything you support in Hillary, John McCain takes a giant dump on.

But now that you are a Republican, I would think we won't be seeing you around here for much longer.


by PSUdan on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:14:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (none / 0)

Wait

Obama is a shill for the corporations?

And Clinton (board of Wal Mart) is not?


by fightbull on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:56:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

thanks for a great diary! (none / 0)


by slinkerwink on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:10:24 AM EST

One more time!!!! Obama is NOT for (2.00 / 1)

universal health care, he's said it in the debates, he's repeated it in numerous interviews so  stop the propaganda. Health care is my #1 priority so I listen very carefully when they speak about it!

His nomination tonight basically has given me a possible death sentence and I don't take kindly to his suppporters telling me that he will champion health care when he has repeatedly said that he will give universal health care for KIDS NOT ADULTS - are you in such a trance that you don't even hear his words?

This is a serious topic for people who are about to lose their health insurance because they can no longer afford it or have no health insurance. Who can they vote for now when both party selected candidates are not for mandated health insurance. As Clinton rightly said so tonight - "It's obscene"! If you don't understand that then you deserve the candidate you voted for because he does not represent the demography of the old democratic party. If your new party can look aside while 50 million people go without health insurance and your leader won't fight for it for at least 4 years and only if it worked for kids then I don't want to belong to it and will definitely look elsewhere!


by suzieg on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:44:04 AM EST

You're not informed on this issue (2.00 / 1)

The main difference between Clinton and Obama's health care plans is this: if someone can afford health insurance (ie. means testing) and doesn't want to purchase it, Obama's plan won't create penalties for those who choose not to.  

That's the biggie.  If you're unemployed, low-income, yadda yadda, the federal government would subsidize or pay for your insurance.

And since Congress is the branch of government which passes legislation, this whole debate between Hillarcare and Obamacare is more than a bit silly at this point.  Congress will probably play the greatest role in crafting legislation to federalize health care.

The question is whether there will be a Democratic president in office to sign it.  If McCain wins, say goodbye to any health care plan.  The Republicans don't believe in it.

If health care is your big issue, voting Dem in the general is a no brainer.  It's quite possible, btw, that fans of HRC's health care plan (or even Edwards' plan) will get everything they want.  But only if a Dem wins.


by IncognitoErgoSum on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:57:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're not informed on this issue (none / 0)

I take you still have your health and I'm glad you do but I don't think you understand the differences in the healthcare plans since it doesn't affect you directly.

It's also a bit disengenuious to say that the only way a Congressionally madated healtcare plan can get passed is with a Dem president. It can pass with enough of a majority of congress to override any veto by a Rep. president, so you are right to point out it's been mostly 'talking points in a presidential campaign', except for Edwards and Clinton who have been fighting for it outside the presidential campaign for many years.

BTW- Universal Healthcare has been a big issue with many of us since 1974 (some before us too). I am hopeful the time has come- as the corporations are also suffering from the high cost of healthcare they provide to their employees in 'benefits packages'.


by Justwords on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 06:33:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're not informed on this issue (none / 0)

...and we won't get those Congressional majorities to override a veto...it takes 67 in the SENATE...health care is not on McCain's plate and having him in office will delay it for at least another 10 years...can you handle that?


by applejackking on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:20:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh really (none / 0)

you think we're going to pick up 18 Senate seats and 50+ House seats?


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:38:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're not informed on this issue (none / 0)

If the Dems federalize health care that will effect everyone in the country.  Again, it's CONGRESS which will come up with the final health care plan.  Obama and Clinton might prod them in slightly different directions, but the president can only sign what is on his or her desk.  If congressional Dems favor HIllarycare, that's the plan we're going to get.  IF there is a Democratic president who will sign this.  If not, any plan will be dead on arrival.  The Dems might get 60 votes in the Senate for passage (and they'll need this), but there is zero chance they'll get 67 (what they'd need to override a McCain veto).


by IncognitoErgoSum on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:55:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (none / 0)

if you vote McCain, you lose any rights to call yourself a progressive. I have written quite a few anti- obama things here in the past because i felt them quite sincerely. now, i'm ready to vote for him in the general.


by Zorkon on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:15:36 AM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (none / 0)

I don't call myself a progressive. I'm not even sure I like the term. I'm and OLD bleeding heart liberal who marched, demonstrated, arrested many times for civil disobedience and still march today(well carry a sign- arthritis and all). So I don't want to become a progressive just because Rush Limbaugh made liberal a dirty word. I am a proud liberal who stands up for causes and issues I believe in. You can be a progressive if you want, but I like being a liberal. Maybe you have no room for liberals in your progressive party.
 
by Justwords on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 07:34:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The two words (2.00 / 1)

pro·gres·sive -adjective 1. favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are, esp. in political matters: a progressive mayor.  

lib·er·al  -adjective 1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.  
2. (often initial capital letter) noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of progressive political reform.  

If you call yourself a liberal and not a progressive, it's like saying you're lactose intolerant who can digest diary.


The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.
by nrafter530 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:35:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

thank you bobswern (none / 0)

i've dished plenty of TRs to you as of late due to comments i felt bashed our (presumptive) nominee.  no more.  this diary shows your class and i sincerely appreciate it.  thank you for this post and i look forward to working with you to defeat john mccain.


Visit us at TexasKAOS, where we're taking Texas back!
by annatopia on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 08:08:09 AM EST

There is a clear divide between (none / 0)

Clinton supporters and.... Clinton "supporters"


Gobama!
by USArmyParatrooper on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 09:22:45 AM EST

Re: How Can We Not Support Obama Now? (none / 0)

As someone who started out neutral between BHO and HRC and gradually came around to Obama it's good to see mydd.com become a little saner again.


by EastFallowfield on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 10:49:26 AM EST

Can we at least wait til she officially concedes? (none / 0)

I was never going to vote for McCain, but I was considering not voting, because I am so upset with the manner in which Obama appears to have beaten Clinton.  

After last night's speeches, I'm moving in the direction of getting off my butt and voting for Obama... but I'm not going to state that I am voting for Obama while Clinton is still in the race, especially given that for every Clinton supporter that moves to Obama before he offers her the VP slot, he is less likely to offer her the VP slot - and she deserves it on all levels.


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:50:55 AM EST

Re: Clinton (none / 0)

Ths site will now become just like the orange one that we left.  

But we will vote in November.  Just not for Obama.  

It is a shame because the country really needs a strong change. But many traditional Democrats are not comfortable with Obama, especially in more conservative states like Pennsylvania or Ohio.  And I don't agree with all progressive "change" policies on the table. Some, but not all.  I guess I am an Independent-leaning Democrat.

Once again, the party activists, the people who go to rallys (overzealous people if you ask me), and fawn all over the candidate, have chosen a nominee that will not connect with a large chunk of the party. The regular folks didn't pick this guy.  He will come across as a skinny-little-know-it-all who served half a term in the Senate and now thinks he should be President.

I liked the old Democratic Party.  The new Democratic Party is no longer my party.


by WolfmanJack on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 11:58:13 AM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (none / 0)

I've tried many, many times to reverse the situation and put myself in the shoes of Clinton supporters. I know it would be very tough for me. I know how emotionally involved one can become in the campaign. All that time and money spent supporting your candidate comes from somewhere deep inside.

All the more reason to show respect where it is due.  Diaries like this really boost my morale. Thanks, bobswern!


by tessellated on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 12:25:12 PM EST

Obama has work to do. (none / 0)

He has to convince me that he is a real Democrat and not just a pandering empty suit who can turn a slick phrase and do a great impersonation of a souther preacher when it suits him.

He has to convince me that he can beat McCain somewhere that matters like Ohio.


by dpANDREWS on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:09:20 PM EST

As a member of a family of Hillary supporters (none / 0)

we all plan to vote for Obama.  We feel he's the lesser of two evils. Heard on a local progressive radio station this morning that Obama voted against capping interest rates at 31% although Hillary did.  Don't care for his health care plan either.  Feel he's just another politician who happens to be African American.  Voting against someone as opposed to for.  Hopefully he'll surprise us.  We're open.


by laternighter on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:21:08 PM EST

As a member of a family of Hillary supporters (none / 0)

we all plan to vote for Obama.  We feel he's the lesser of two evils. Heard on a local progressive radio station this morning that Obama voted against capping interest rates at 31% although Hillary did.  Don't care for his health care plan either.  Feel he's just another politician who happens to be African American.  Voting against someone as opposed to for.  Hopefully he'll surprise us.  We're open.


by laternighter on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:21:34 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (none / 0)

Great job bobswern! Thank you


by wolff109 on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 01:47:53 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (none / 0)

I will never support him. I will never vote for him. I am praying that Hillary Clinton does NOT make the huge mistake of taking a VP spot on a ticket that will go down as the biggest loser since McGovern.

Every time I think of Obama flipping off Hillary while supporters cheered, dusting the crap off his shoulders and his shoes...and then I think of the undemocratic caucuses, and stealing her Michigan delegates, Michelle Obama talking about whether Hillary's "tone" would be acceptable to her.

No thanks, I'll take McCain. I will vote REPUBLICAN for the first time in thirty-one years. It is obvious to me the kind of people that Michelle and Barack Obama are. And they belong nowhere near the White House.

Can't wait for the tape.


by cc on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:20:05 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (none / 0)

A case of someone believing what they want to believe, or just blatant republican trolling.

Did you not see the angles where he was clearly scratching his face with TWO FINGERS.

Did you not hear what the reference was about brushing off your shoulders?

Jeez. Get out of here. Back to Redstate with you!


Hell yeah we did.
by Darknesse on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:12:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Team Democrat Go! (none / 0)

If you're feeling less than happy about the top of the ticket, just remember how many Republicans we can kick out of office this year! Many of them are in states that voted for Obama, such as Colorado (Sen. Allard's open seat), Minnesota (Sen. Coleman), Oregon (Sen. Smith), Virginia (Sen. Warner's open seat), Alaska (Sen. Stevens, Rep. Young), Washington (Rep. Reichert), Maine (Sen. Collins), North Carolina (Sen. Dole, Rep. Hayes), Missouri (open Gov), Connecticut (Rep. Shays), Mississippi (Sen. Wicker), Wyoming (Rep. Cubin's open seat), Nebraska (Rep. Terry), Illinois (open seats of Reps. Weller and Lahood, Rep Kirk), and Alabama (Rep. Everett's open seat).

And for those who think Obama can't win in November, keep in mind he's been lauded by most for running a very skillful campaign. Then you must consider the talents of his opponent; the Clintons are famous for being skilled campaigners themselves. Obama has won a very tough race, and will continue to demonstrate tremendous political skill in facing McCain (a far less inspirational candidate than Clinton).


Visit Election Inspection for analysis, polls, and predictions!
by X Stryker on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 02:46:12 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: How Can We Not Support Oba (none / 0)

Would take McCain any day over racist and misogynist Obama.


by Swing Vote on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:19:42 PM EST

Re: Clinton Supporters: (none / 0)

I was an ardent Hillary supporter, and before Iowa when the field was packed Obama ranked as just my forth or fifth place favorite of the lot. Still I will do me best to support Obama in the general election. It's too important to get a Democrat in the White House.

I urge emotional Clinton supporters riling against Obama, many of which have a stronger more personal connenction to Hillary than I do, to just take a two or three week vacation from politics and settle down a bit. Stay away from blogs, cable news, anything political. Keep Hillary in your hearts, but try to let you hatred of Obama go. Ignore the vile stuff on the internet about Hillary. Those people don't represent Obama's message, understand that. Go outside, take a trip, or take up a new hobby. Come back in a few weeks and I bet you'll feel a little better about Obama's candidacy. He won't be my favorite person I've ever voted for either, but he's still far better for this country than McCain.


by Christopher Lib on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:48:50 PM EST

If I were an Obama fan (none / 0)

I'd focus on registering new voters, night & day until the last possible moment. I mean that sincerely. Make sure somebody grabs up my circle of former Dem voters in Pennsylvania. You'll need five  in Lackawanna County, two in Berks & two in Clinton County.
 
by bluemoon on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 03:59:41 PM EST

Health care (none / 0)

If a Democrat gets into the White House this year--any Democrat--they'll have a real chance to federalize health care (and it will be Congress which passes the bill).  The Dems will almost certainly have a majority in the House of Representitives.  They'll almost certainly have a majority in the Senate.  And it's even possible that this year or in 2010 the Dems will have 60 votes in the Senate (which is the number they'd need to defeat a Republican fillibuster).

In 2012, the Dems will have to start defending all of the Senate seats they picked up in 2006 and later (ie. there will be more Dems up for reelection than Republicans).  While no one has a crystal ball, the chances that Dems will be able to sustain a 60-seat majority in the Senate past that point are very slim.  The Dems have been trying to do this, btw, for sixty years (it really has been that long, the first president to try to do this was Harry Truman, they've come close a few times but they've always failed).

Do you hate Obama?  Do you think he's an empty suit who isn't qualified to be president?  Then vote for him so the Dems can pass a health care package.  Who knows when we're going to get this chance again?  These tiny windows open up and then they close quickly.  The chances that any Republican will do this are zero.  

That the Dems can do this at all is due to an odd constellation of events which probably won't recur for a long time (eg. the unpopularity of the GOP because of Bush, Iraq, and the economy, the fact that the Dems are benefitting from GOP overstretch in the Senate because of the victories they won six years ago, the fact that most people now think 2008 will be a "big" election, when parties exchange power the new president generally gets a honeymoon period, and so on).

Or we can just miss the chance.  That's what has happened every other time.


by IncognitoErgoSum on Wed Jun 04, 2008 at 04:08:45 PM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.