Obama Can Do Anything The White Kids Can Do

Most racism, sexism is unconscious.

Yesterday, Obama said this, in (what I believe was) a sincere effort to be more inclusive toward women:

Obama thanked Clinton and said she had broken barriers and served as a lesson to his daughters that women can do anything the boys can do "and do it better, and do it in heels" and he echoed the call for unity, while also hailing the influence and successes of her husband.

Let's separate this out a bit. Now I know some naysayers will say this is nitpicking, go ahead.

First let's take "women can do anything the boys can do." Flip it into a comment about race. To complete the exercise, let's pretend Hillary and Bill Clinton are godparents to two children whose mother is Maggie Williams. To take it a step further, let's pretend Hillary's husband is African American, and was never president:

Obama has proved to my African American godchildren that black adults can do anything the white kids can do.

The (unconscious) insults spoken in that statement are three-fold:

  1. There's the adult/child insult.

  2. Then there's the in-group out-group insult; the implication that the men already could do everything, and women are just now catching up.

  3. Then there's the comment about the heels. UPDATE: I should note it is clear Obama intended the "heels" comment to be a compliment, and he quoted something Anne Richards said of herself years ago. This is just an exercise and you can choose to see the comment any way you wish. However, if you've read Hillary's memoir you'd know that her doctor prohibited her from wearing heels because they had damaged her feet. So, Obama unconsciously engaged in mild stereotyping here, while he meant well. He is making an effort.

Let's flip the entire comment into one about race. First, the original comment again:

Obama thanked Clinton and said she had broken barriers and served as a lesson to his daughters that women can do anything the boys can do "and do it better, and do it in heels" and he echoed the call for unity, while also hailing the influence and successes of her husband.

Now let's flip Obama's place with Clinton's, and replace women with African Americans:

ObamaClinton thanked ClintonObama and said shehe had broken barriers and served as a lesson to his daughtersher African American godchildren that womenblack adults can do anything the boys the white kids can do "and do it better, and do it in heels with their (nappy) hair in place" and heshe echoed the call for unity, while also hailing the influence and successes of her husbandhis wife.

A look at the flipped quote, cleaned up of the edit marks:

Clinton thanked Obama and said he had broken barriers and served as a lesson to her African American godchildren that black adults can do anything the white kids can do "and do it better, and do it with their (nappy) hair in place" and she echoed the call for unity, while also hailing the influence and successes of his wife.

Again, I don't think Obama dislikes women. But unconsciously, he may resent their having a place in the arena which he's trying to penetrate - he's trying to join the top-most 'ole boys club there is. There's no explicit evidence he resents them, though.:

McCain, Clinton Pay Women Better than Obama
By Fred Lucas
CNSNews.com Staff Writer
April 30, 2008

(CNSNews.com) - Non-intern female employees did better working on the Senate staffs of John McCain and Hillary Clinton during the latest public reporting period than they did working for Barack Obama, Cybercast News Service determined through an analysis of payroll data published by the Secretary of the Senate.

Both McCain and Clinton also employed more female than male staffers, while Obama employed more males than females. However, Obama's staff was more balanced between male and female staffers than either McCain's or Clinton's.

Also, McCain and Clinton had more female than male staffers making six-figure salaries, while Obama had more male than female staffers making six-figure salaries.

The salary statistics prove nothing. It could be Obama just found fewer female staffers worthy of higher pay.


Poll
Bringing this up now
is a dead-ender move
is perfect timing, let's discuss this while it's fresh
is whining
get over it, Clinton lost
don't make Obama look bad! The Repubs might hear you!
This topic makes me uncomfortable
You're just trying to get Hillary nominated
catfish is a concern troll
pie
ooga booga

Votes: 33
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Re: Obama Can do Anything The White Kids Can Do (2.00 / 5)

You're approvingly citing research by CNS News (in which the C used to stand for "Conservative")?  Seriously?

They wouldn't have any interest in making the Democratic nominee look bad.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:04:21 PM EST

Re: Obama Can do Anything The White Kids Can Do (2.00 / 5)

No dead-ender diary would be complete without citing a virulant right-wing propaganda site.


by IsaccBurn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:10:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Can do Anything The White Kids Can Do (1.33 / 12)

Rec'ed . another brillant diary... thank you Cat


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:29:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Can do Anything The White Kids Can Do (1.81 / 11)

If by great, you mean demonstrably hypocritical and ignorant of famous quotes from feminist icons... then yes, I imagine it is up to regressive dead-ender standards.


by IsaccBurn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:31:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Rec'd by A&K... (2.00 / 1)

Now there's enough to make you never write again. I'd be mortified.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:05:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sorry, but (2.00 / 9)

I just didn't have a problem with what he said. I thought everything went splendidly yesterday, and I don't think I saw a single misstep. They both made me happy.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:04:28 PM EST

No need to be sorry (1.40 / 5)

It's just an exercise.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:06:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No need to be sorry (1.88 / 9)

in stupidity...


by IsaccBurn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:08:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No. It's not. (2.00 / 4)

It's an effort to inject sexism where there is none, and troll a bit with your really inflammatory substitute language while you're at it. So if that's what you meant by exercise, OK. If you meant some sort of intellectual exercise. That it is not.


John McCain supports privatizing Social Security.
by Travis Stark on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:06:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No. It's not. (2.00 / 3)

people can learn Travis, but not if you're afraid to tell them what they did wrong.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:43:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What the Hell is wrong with you? (2.00 / 1)

Why in the Hell would you inject racist commentary and then compare it to a compliment that Senator Obama made to Senator Clinton?

Senator Clinton has made the same sort of comments herself, and what the FUCK does 'nappy hair' have to do with anything?

You should be ashamed of yourself.

TR'd for being an asshole and a racist.


by DaveDial on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:43:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama was making a play (2.00 / 1)

on the feminist statement about Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers -- it goes something like 'Ginger Rogers did everything Fred Astaire did but she had to do it backwards, and in heels.'

It's a huge stretch to try to make anything more of it in my opinion.

It's my opinion that Obama and Clinton have a huge amount of respect for each other.  Clinton is not a racist, Obama is not a misogynist...whatever was said (or nuanced) by either candidate during the primaries was said to try to gain an edge over the opponent...and they both know it.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:38:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Can do Anything The White Kids Can Do (2.00 / 3)

So "the Old Boys' Club" that Clinton talked about is actually made up of children? Those are some nefarious tots!


by IsaccBurn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:08:06 PM EST

Re: Obama Can do Anything The White Kids Can Do (2.00 / 3)

well, even Hillary stated similar comments in her speeches  

I can't parse anymore.


by colebiancardi on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:10:45 PM EST

Re: Obama Can do Anything The White Kids Can Do (2.00 / 4)

This isn't 'parsing,' this is 'making things up.'


by IsaccBurn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:12:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Breaking! (2.00 / 4)

I found evidence of Hillary's own unconscious sexism:

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/200 7/11/01/clinton-wellesley-prepared-me-fo r-all-boys-club/

Speaking of alma mater, she said:

"Clinton seemed to allude to sharp attacks from Democratic rivals in Tuesday's showdown, telling the enthusiastic crowd, "in so many ways, this all women's college prepared me compete in the all boys' club of presidential politics.""

Why would a WOMEN's college ONLY prepare her to compete in the BOYS' club? Why not the MEN'S club? Clearly, Senator Clinton unconsciously thinks that WOMEN have no place among MEN, they are only capable of competing with BOYS!

Frankly, I am disgusted that the Senator would slur all the WOMEN at Wellesley with her misogynist rant!


by IsaccBurn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:18:19 PM EST

Re: Breaking! (2.00 / 2)

because when schools are co-ed, men hold most leadership positions, but when it's an all girl school, only girls hold those positions and so they get more experience in leadership. it's a fact that no woman has been elected president, and it's a fact that hardly any females head corporations, when men also compete, the men dominate the top power jobs.  Hillary is allowed to say those things, but if a man said that about her, one would wonder, why is he speaking for her, what's that about.  considering it a compliment to say a woman is as good as a man is sexist. We're all people here.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:47:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

At least you didn't call him Barky (2.00 / 6)

but it's sad you've never heard of Ginger Rogers.


by JJE on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:25:08 PM EST

Re: At least you didn't call him Barky (2.00 / 3)

Well, seeing as how dead-enders aren't actually feminists, they can't be expected to know references to famous quotes from actual feminist political icons.


by IsaccBurn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:27:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: At least you didn't call him Barky (2.00 / 8)

By the way catfish, Obama's 'heels' remark was a reference to Ann Richards' legendary 1988 keynote address.

You can read about her here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Richard s

Her inspiring career ended prematurely due to a genuinely misogynistic campaign run by Karl Rove. I hope you consider that before you post another disingenuous diary in service of Rove's current candidate.


by IsaccBurn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:30:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You have made an argument (2.00 / 6)

supported by actual facts, that makes catfish2's point look stupid.

You are unlikely to get a reply, and certainly not a substantive and responsive one.


by JJE on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:33:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You have made an argument (2.00 / 2)

it's a good point, and if you'd start with that, she's making a point, taking the trouble to teach sensitivity, maybe you can learn.  Maybe not, but maybe.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:48:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are you a parody? (none / 0)

It's not actually a point.  It's a claim.  And a stupid one.  Maybe you can think before you type.  Maybe not, but maybe.


by JJE on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 08:16:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good point - I updated the diary (1.50 / 2)

yes I know Richards made that remark and it was effective. Which is what made Obama's remark so puzzling - it sounded like a clinker and this is an exploration as to why.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:40:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good point - I updated the diary (2.00 / 4)

Actually, it's a reference to Ginger Rogers and predates Ann Richards. May have first originated in a Frank and Earnst cartoon, which is disturbing.

This diary is otherwise tripe. A clinker? It's a famous quote. Maybe you should accuse Obama of plagiarism too.


Fight the Smears!
by Lettuce on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:03:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Go back to Alegre's Corner, Catfish2. (2.00 / 3)

And can we list a group of sources that should never alone or together be considered legit? (By the way, these are sources that regularly spewed anti-Clinton conspiracies until Obama became their worse nightmare.)

I'll start:
cnsnews.com
counterpunch
worldnetdaily...


by batgirl71 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:44:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good point - I updated the diary (2.00 / 2)

maybe he didn't get it himself?  Richards was quoting Ginger, about how everyone fawned over Fred and didn't notice her dancing and she did the same steps he did, in heels, and backward. It's a man's world, I suppose Ginger would have been expected to feel complimented if someone told her she danced as well as a man.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:50:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: At least you didn't call him Barky (2.00 / 4)

Mojo for Ginger.

Funny though, in her latter years she was very conservative - a good friend of Reagan.

Of course the line still holds a lot of truth.


by candidate D on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:32:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Can Do Anything The White Kids Can Do (2.00 / 6)

Puma.  PUMA.  PUMA!!!!

Petulant Ex-Dems
Undermining their party by supporting
McCain's old
Ass


John McCain wants to stay in Iraq.
by ihaveseenenough on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:25:28 PM EST

Re: (2.00 / 4)

It is a real scorcher today, and the humidity? Don't get me started!


by xdem on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:27:35 PM EST

This from the diarist who called Obama Barky (2.00 / 4)

Why don't you(catfish) just edit out EVERYTHING Obama said, insert your own bias's, and call it a day. Why don't you express how you really feel. Why use Obama as an excuse for your real motives.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:34:36 PM EST

Re: This from the diarist who called Obama Barky (2.00 / 1)

instead of trying to help him? good idea, let him advise himself?  (you're wrong, anyone can learn, but they have to have the right tools.)  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:51:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: This from the diarist who called Obama Barky (none / 0)

OH god! Your back, and still as hard to understand as ever.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 02:12:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

come on now cat. (2.00 / 9)

i have been diligent in calling out sexism - but this is a bit much.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 04:56:48 PM EST

I think he's making an effort (1.00 / 2)

But the replay of his "heels" comment kept hitting my ear like a clinker. So I flipped it around.

It also caught my attention because I know back in the 1990s her doctor prohibited her from wearing heels because they'd damaged her feet.

You are free to disagree cgal.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:08:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

and i do disagree. (2.00 / 9)

and i think it diminishes real charges of sexism when one takes an innocuous comment and calls it out for something it isnt.  oh well. sigh


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:13:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: and i do disagree. (1.88 / 9)

I only read your work on the subject. Shit diaries like this one undermine the effort of real feminists. Half the time it's people who didn't give a shit about sexism until it could advance their delusional agenda. It's like the diaries that called out racism on every little thing that was said.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:22:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: and i do disagree. (2.00 / 6)

i totally agree.  the PC police have done more to diminish REAL isms that help.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:30:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Um - I respect you but (1.50 / 2)

I never knew you considered yourself The Arbiter of what is and what is not a REAL "ism".

This is an exercise. If you don't consider this a legitimate discussion, you're free to hold that opinion.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:33:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

i am no arbiter. (2.00 / 4)

rather someone who is weary of the naysayers and deniers of sexism.  and when the holding on sweeties and fairy tale remarks are blow up into dramz then it becomes an endless cycle of victimhood - which is never good for progress.

you are certainly entitled to your opinion as am i.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:49:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Um - I respect you but (2.00 / 3)

Its hard to know why some remark seems off-putting, and I didn't understand when I heard him, why it seemed wrong. Of course it's no compliment to be compared 'favorably' to men.  It's insulting.  But he doesn't know and if he reads your diary, he may learn.  Even if his supporters don't want to, I think he's better than his supporters, actually a lot better. You helped him with this.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:54:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

off-tune (2.00 / 2)

I wasn't quite sure how to react to the "heels" comment, either.  Take a look at Hillary's face when Obama kept on about it.  Maybe I'm projecting my own discomfort, but to me her face revealed bemusement tinged with a bit of gracious "WTF?".  

Personally, I thought Obama was on stronger ground earlier in his speech when he invoked images of Hillary as strong, wise, passionate and dedicated.  I felt much more positive about him at that point.  The whole event would have been much more unifying if Obama had allowed Clinton the gender neutral characteristics of leadership.


by dbrown04 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:26:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: off-tune (2.00 / 6)

I agree, it was a bit awkward. But he was trying to make a joke. It was a touchy subject, to talk about breaking barriers, because it's going to inherently have an element of tokenism in it.

That said, it should be remembered that Hillary wasn't the only candidate this cycle to do it in heels...


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:34:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary doesn't wear heels (1.50 / 2)

it's in her memoir, wearing heels for years damaged her feet and her doctor prohibited it.

Luckily, Rudy's feet survived intact. Mojo for the humor :)


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:36:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary doesn't wear heels (2.00 / 2)

mmhmm

http://www.judiciaryreport.com/images/hi llary-clinton-shoes-bill.jpg

http://bp1.blogger.com/_Oe7p_EuUhC0/R_P5 oxM95yI/AAAAAAAAANo/lVRSBdUuS0E/s1600-h/ 02seelye-337.jpg

This is literally the most inept attempt to smear Obama ever. Congrats.


by IsaccBurn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:06:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary doesn't wear heels (2.00 / 2)

that's because it isn't a smear. Look around, lots of fellows think girl should gush with joy to be compared to real men. But it's not true, at least not for women who like their own sex and don't themselves assume males are superior, and if women are polite about it, doesn't mean it isn't off-putting.  He needs to get sensitivity training, and learn what it feels like to have the shoe on the other foot. He demands that for himself with any remark that mentions his race, so it ought to be a no-brainer for him and this diary should benefit him.  But it's no smear, lots of people think that insults are compliments.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:01:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're talking about (none / 0)

'sensitivity training', when you've recc'd, and are virulently defending a racist diary making a quip about 'nappy hair'???

Saying "Fuck you, you fucking hypocrite" would be wrong, so I won't.


* Hums Mr. Rogers theme *
by Maori on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 02:34:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks - it takes guts (1.50 / 2)

to leave a comment like yours, because a lot will dismiss this as whining or crying wolf.

I really see he meant it as a compliment and he is really trying.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:35:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks - it takes guts (2.00 / 1)

Yes, noble Obama, trying so hard not to be such an obvious misogynist, you are so gracious.

And Clinton, in her concession speech, did a great job trying not to be a racist.

Oh wait, we're upholding a double standard of bullshit character attacks? Sorry...


by IsaccBurn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:55:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks - it takes guts (1.00 / 7)

yes he was trying and he just didn't know. His assumption of male superiority is so ingrained that he thinks saying she's as good as a man is a compliment and he thinks she'll be glad to be given the recognition denied to Ginger Rogers.  He got so upset when Bill compared him to another black politicians that he probably thought girl dancers would be safer?  Bill was wrong, and so was he.    


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:04:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

lol (1.71 / 7)

crying that I tr'd you claiming our nominee thinks men are superior.

funny stuff.


by Is This Snark on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:52:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The gilded cage (1.50 / 4)

So much of what happened this primary season resonated unpleasantly with my experience fighting for women's rights in the 1970s.

I don't think Obama's "heels" comment would have sounded quite so off-tune to me if he hadn't also helped Hillary with her chair in the last couple of debates.  Back in the 1970s and earlier, men always pulled out chairs and held doors for women.  Women eventually realized that these practices, while enjoyable at one level, were part of the gilded cage.  A practice that was seen as obligatory behavior suddenly became condescending.

After Obama started helping Hillary with her chair during the debates, I couldn't help wonder what thoughts lay behind that behavior.  It was clearly deliberate.  Hillary would have come across as a 'bitch' if she had rejected his gesture.  But just imagine Obama and Axelrod talking strategy before the debate.  Was this gesture intended to make Obama seem gallant or to put Hillary in the gilded cage?

I honestly do not know the answer to that question and I honestly don't know what to think about the "heels" comment.


by dbrown04 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:17:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The gilded cage (2.00 / 2)

I know the answer to your question: you're a ruthless fiend who will look for any reason to smear an honest progressive, even an innocent gesture of courtesy.


by IsaccBurn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:31:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Intense tone in your comments (1.40 / 5)

why are you so threatened by this discussion?


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:32:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Intense tone in your comments (2.00 / 3)

I think there are two possible reasons:

1.  Some people just like to be mean.  They won and they want to keep beating it into our heads.

2.  It's the KO mentality.  You can't be critical of BO.  He's the leader.  Everything he does is correct and any (perceived) criticism helps McCain.

I get what you are doing with this diary, showing how his words would read if the gender words were replaced with racial/ethnic terms.  Everybody is freaking out because they are so sensitive to criticizing Obama.

I realize that he is the nominee, but why does everything have to be about him?


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:55:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Interesting point (2.00 / 1)

J Ro's front page story addresses this issue in a nice way.  Progressives are going to have to make some tough decisions about when and how to hold Obama's feet to the fire.  Here's a quote:

As long as we don't stoop so low as to rationalize a candidate's political calculations, progressives can retain their authority while still supporting a center/center-left candidate.

But once Obama is elected, it's war. As I've said before, November is just the beginning.

The term "war" is a bit over the top with me.  I prefer something quite a bit more low grade and, apparently, I'm not planning on waiting until November.  I prefer to use this opportunity to address the issue of sexism while its still fresh on our minds.


by dbrown04 on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 07:06:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I doubt the pulling out the chair was strategy (1.66 / 3)

He called Senator Barbara Boxer a "cutie" last Spring, which prompted SFGate, others to wonder if he wasn't yet ready for prime time.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:27:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I doubt the pulling out the chair was strategy (2.00 / 2)

I think it was, it came after he 'failed' to see Hillary at the SOTU and turned away, and after he made some unpleasant jokes about her. Many wondered if he could stand to be nice to her on stage, and he did it, he was nice and it probably helped him to use his early midwestern training. I didn't mind him helping her, his sexist remarks about her didn't hurt him and none of that benefited him, except it showed that he was willing to try, trying to learn.   He probably wants to learn, I think he listens to his advisors who are settling scores and writing his speeches. he might try getting Michelle to help him instead. She would have seen that problem and pointed it out to him.


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:09:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Never heard of "gilded cage" (1.50 / 2)

thanks for the reference.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:33:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Deadenders, a badge of honor (2.00 / 3)

As I read down the stream of comments, I noticed many references to "deadenders."

The term "deadenders" to characterize political actors unable to accept their defeat was most famously used by Sec. of Def. Donald Rumsfeld as a dismissive reference to Sunnis insurgents in Iraq.

So now we see this term applied to determined Clinton supporters.  What shall we make of this fact?  The ironies abound.

Once again we have so-called progressives applying Republican put-downs to their Democratic brethren.

And, in case you have not noticed, the Sunni "deadenders" regrouped and have essentially defeated the mighty US military.

So I guess that being called a "deadender" is sort of a compliment?


by dbrown04 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:11:24 PM EST

Re: Deadenders, a badge of honor (2.00 / 2)

That word has been used for many years.  Rummy was hardly the first to use it.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:25:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deadenders, a badge of honor (2.00 / 1)

Doesn't matter. Dead-enders get to make things up and rewrite history as they go.


by IsaccBurn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:03:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deadenders, a badge of honor (2.00 / 1)

not the only ones, case you haven't noticed.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:10:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They don't want to discuss sexism (1.75 / 4)

so they twist this into saying I'm trying to get Hillary nominated. I am not. Obama is the nominee.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:31:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They don't want to discuss sexism (1.66 / 6)

hey, what you're doing is important and better for Barack than all the he is perfect shut up supporters out there. he's far from perfect and he needs all the help he can get. Good job.  Don't bother with those silly nay-sayers who refuse to think.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:11:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

lol (1.66 / 6)

crying about a tr for calling people sick of catfish's race baiting are silly nay sayers that refuse to think.

Funny stuff


by Is This Snark on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:54:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Deadenders, a badge of honor (2.00 / 2)

No, dead-ender does not originate with Rumsfeld, but it's truly characteristic of dead-enders to fabricate additional meanings where there are none whenever it serves their warped, amoral agenda.


by IsaccBurn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:02:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Can Do Anything The White Kids Can Do (2.00 / 1)

Nappy hair. Jesus, dude. I like you, but this is pretty awful.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:26:53 PM EST

Yeah - nappy not the right word (1.00 / 1)

because it's derogatory. If I just said "hair" people might not get the different-ness of it.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:29:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah - nappy not the right word (2.00 / 1)

Truth is, there's not really much that they could bring up for race. Part of it is that Obama doesn't embody almost every traditional black stereotype you can think of. The other part of it is that it's too awkward to talk about race period. It's just as awkward when Obama does it as when Clinton did it. Obama can get away with saying "do it in heels" just like Clinton could. It doesn't work the same way in terms of the cultural environment.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:46:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well the heels remark stood out to others (1.66 / 3)

Larry King asked somebody if it was sexist, as did Christ Matthews. And other women around the web said they winced when he said it.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:00:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Well the heels remark stood out to others (2.00 / 0)

Well, possibly. I just don't think it does have the same Chris Matthews is a terrible example for anyone, tho. I think it is literally possible to find a statement by Chris Matthews that attacks absolutely anyone.

If Obama had started the sentence with, "And to quote the late, great Ann Richards," there wouldn't even really be a question about it. Because the intention certainly was not to denigrate her.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:31:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

His intentions were good (1.50 / 2)

I have no doubt about that. But the comment caused a lot of people to wince.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:31:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: His intentions were good (none / 0)

I was one of those people, trust me. But it seemed to go by without a hitch, so I figured that it was best to just take it in the spirit in which it was meant and move on.

I do hope we don't have another president that keeps trying to feel up Chancellor Merkel. I think Obama is a sight better than that mess, though.


If you're being chased by an angry bull and then you notice you're also being chased by a swarm of bees, it doesn't really change things. Just keep on running.
by vcalzone on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:46:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: His intentions were good (2.00 / 4)

I would point out that nobody did that for the Clintons during the campaign.  Any ambiguous statement they made was immediately seen as "race-baiting," despite their long records in civil rights.

In her diary, catfish isn't necessarily criticizing Obama.  She's only pointing out that we are more sensitive to racist language than sexist language.


Linfar's co-blogger opposing John McCain
by psychodrew on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:46:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: His intentions were good (2.00 / 2)

for sure, but if no one tells him he can't learn.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:13:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yeah - nappy not the right word (2.00 / 3)

Yeah, right. we believe you.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:01:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Can Do Anything The White Kids Can Do (1.66 / 3)

Come'on people. This piece of crap diary made it on the rec list with 3 recs. Get busy rec'ing good diaries or you will see this continue to happen.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:28:57 PM EST

IMO (2.00 / 4)

This diary could be used as supporting evidence in mine about sexism swiftboating.

Notice the cited article from the conservative paper purposely making Obama look like the candidate least concerned about looking sexist.

Look at who is pushing the pablum on Democratic websites.

What is their goal? Is it to honestly take action against the perpetrators of the sexism, if so where are the action plans?

How is withholding support from Obama addressing the sexism in society in general, and the media specifically?

What does the PUMA crowd expect the dnc to do about it?

What do they think pappy McPain will do about it?


by Is This Snark on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:50:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: IMO (1.50 / 4)

except it doesn't smear Barack and he can learn from it?  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:14:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

tr for (1.66 / 6)

claiming a race baiting diary trying to paint our nominee as a sexist isn't a smear.

Worse it is healthy.

Funny stuff.


by Is This Snark on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:56:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: tr for (none / 0)

thanks for the explanation after I told you I'd reported you, but in this case the comment would have been your opinion and the tr is rating abuse.  Grow up.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 10:55:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: IMO (2.00 / 2)

HI snark,

I reported you for ratings abuse. We don't agree, I think Barack can learn and this diary is helpful, and you think it's a smear, but that does not give you the right to tr me.  So, I've reported you and if you tr me again for not agreeing with you, I'll report you again. Knock it off, okay?  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:42:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hi anna (1.66 / 6)

I explained each tr.

Keep posting similarly, you'll keep getting them from me.


by Is This Snark on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:57:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hi anna (1.71 / 7)

Uprated to counter u2livelife's ratings abuse.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 10:30:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks (1.75 / 8)

sricki.


by Is This Snark on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 10:49:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thank you, 22TANGOME, (1.66 / 6)

for displaying further ratings abuse. (I know you're rankles/aliveandkickin, by the way.)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 11:43:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Black voters (2.00 / 1)

I think all of us would agree that one of benefits to Hillary winning the nomination would have been the unintentional comedy that would have occurred with McCain having to kiss Obama's ass.  How hilarious would it have been to see McCain trying to grovel up to black voters?

McCain: "Senator Obama has been an inspiration to my African-American constituents in Arizona, even though ninety percent of them voted against me in my reelection bid."

You wouldn't have busted a gut watching McCain go after black voters?


by Blazers Edge on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:33:55 PM EST

Well he was ridiculed in South Carolina in 2000 (1.00 / 1)

because he and Cindy adopted a Bangladeshi daughter. He was the target of a whisper campaign that he had fathered her illegitimately.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:37:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well he was ridiculed in South Carolina in 2000 (2.00 / 1)

That he adopted a daughter from an Asian country wouldn't make it any less funny that he would have tried to go after Obama's African-American voters by complimenting him effusively.  His whole staff could be black and it wouldn't change the fact that African-Americans have voted against him entire career (by contrast, look at the African-American support that Huckabee got in his reelection).  Bush appointed Powell and Rice and it didn't change the way African-Americans voted; African-Americans don't often get "bamboozled."


by Blazers Edge on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:47:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He may or may not have courted the black vote (1.00 / 2)

he did appear in Alabama on MLK day and said "I was wrong" to loud boos from the audience.

And Bush told the National Urban League that the Democratic Party had long taken the black vote for granted.

Also, there is Colin and Condi, both Republican Secretaries of State.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:13:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Go ahead and lie to yourself (none / 0)

--whatever you need to do to swallow voting for McCain. God, I thought all these people had left. Now they're back reccing this shit.


by batgirl71 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 10:07:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black voters (2.00 / 1)

He has tried. C'mon, apologizing for leading the charge against making MLK day does do it? It was especially painful to watch on the news, as I think his real lack of concern for Blacks was what he was actually telegraphing to a base who seem quite comfortable with racism of all kinds.


Barack Obama is my President
by Jeter on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:30:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black voters (2.00 / 1)

Some black voters are really conservative and would be pugs except for the racist part of that party.  John McCain has a dark skinned adopted daughter and he was a victim of racist attacks when he was running against Bush.  He would have had an easier time I think not sounding so weird, except the pugs really have a racist platform and so they get very few black party members, whatever the political philosophy.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:17:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sexism in the funniest places (2.00 / 2)

Sexism is hard to describe, which makes it hard to convince people that they are sexist.  Back in the 1970s, feminists developed the strategy of taking seemingly innocuous statements and flipping the gender of every pronoun.  It was really effective.

On the one hand, "she does it in heals and backward," is potentially a compliment.  Nevertheless, replacing the gendered images with racial images is revealing.  

Which brings me to the main point of this comment.  My 14 year old daughter just pointed out to me that there was a recent controversy at google.com.  Apparently, if you google "she invented," google will come back with "did you mean 'he invented?'"


by dbrown04 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:48:31 PM EST

Re: Sexism in the funniest places (2.00 / 2)

"Nevertheless, replacing the gendered images with racial images is revealing."

Especially when the racial image is clearly pejorative and the gendered image is not. He referenced Ann Richards' "in heels remark," he didn't say "with your naturally weak frame." "Nappy" was a bullshit analog.

Why don't you bitter, delusional gasbags go back to Hillaryis44 where tortured attempts at character assassination are still the topic du jour?


by IsaccBurn on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:59:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sexism in the funniest places (2.00 / 2)

that's the point, it's not considered pejorative to think women would really like to be men, and would then be superior too. and it should be.  But as long as there are women who agree that men are better, that calling a woman 'man' is a compliment, we won't get the awakening that could make a real difference in women's lives, in women's safety and in women's earnings.  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:19:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

who the hell gave you mojo? (2.00 / 2)

you have been a member here for 1 day - YES 1 DAY PEOPLE.

and you are telling people to leave mydd - see guys this is what i am talking about?  

you may not agree with catfish - hell even i dont in this case - yet you are not calling out this person for what they are?

sheesh.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 10:06:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Did she also point out to you... (2.00 / 2)

Google fixed it?  http://www.10e20.com/blog/2007/05/20/wom en-invent-things-too-google-fixes-she-in vented/


by tonedevil on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:32:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yes, she did (2.00 / 1)

She told me that now if you google "she invented" you get a bunch of links to stories about the controversy.

But what message do you think that sends to a young girl?  In my daughter's case it has lent credence to the argument that sexism is deeply ingrained in our society.  But what do you think it does to girls in families where "isms" are not discussed?


by dbrown04 on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 07:48:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama Can Do Anything The White Kids Can Do (none / 0)


by dbrown04 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:48:44 PM EST

Re: Obama Can Do Anything The White Kids Can Do (2.00 / 3)

Nappy hair?  


by Whash on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:50:18 PM EST

Re: Obama Can Do Anything The White Kids Can Do (2.00 / 4)

So if I tell my daughter she can do anything the boys can do, am I being unconsciously sexist?  Am I repressing her beneath the weight of gender stereotypes?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 05:53:30 PM EST

You sound like a good parent (1.50 / 2)

And I agree it is a giant pain in the ass to parse and examine every statement that comes out of our mouths. But think of racist statements that for so long were accepted because that was how people had always talked.

I think the better statement would be "each person has unique talents and you should make the most of yours" or something, instead of implying the boys can do it all, and sure honey, you can too. It's a minor quibble, but like Obama's statement "you can do anything the boys can do" hits my ear like a clinker, like outdated, 1970s feminism that thought we'd conquered and moved beyond so we could climb the next hill toward progress.

But come on, you sound like a really good parent so ... take what I say with a grain of salt.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:11:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You sound like a good parent (2.00 / 2)

boys may be told they can be anything, and if a boy is called a girl it's an insult.  why not tell girls they can be anything?  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:20:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Here's the more realistic reverse quote (2.00 / 4)

Clinton thanked Obama and said he had broken barriers and served as a lesson to African Americans that they can do anything white America can do "and do it better, and do it despite systematic discrimination" and he echoed the call for unity, while also hailing the influence and successes of her husband.

It would be seen as overwhelmingly generous.

"heels" is shorthand for a handicap women have to suffer through, "nappy-headed" isn't even in the same ballpark thematically. I suppose you could substitute "driving while black", or some other codeword for an institutionalized handicap.

If you want the sexist equivalent of "nappy-headed", you'd need to substitute something like "saggy ass".

Which may give you some idea of how your version read.


by Neef on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 06:25:43 PM EST

It's not because of "the boys" (1.50 / 2)

Women can do anything "the boys" can do.

Look, it's priggish to bring this up, people will roll their eyes when statements meant as compliments are parsed like this. Or as some comments upthread show, they will react with intense anger.

"Boys will be boys" has also long been accepted. But that doesn't make it right.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 07:29:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Did not mean to imply (none / 0)

YOU were being priggish. But the tedium of language parsing will make many people irritable.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:17:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here's the more realistic reverse quote (2.00 / 1)

you think that's a compliment? I don't.  I don't think very many black americans think discrimination is all gone either, just because Barack is our nominee.  Black Americans can do anything any other American can do as long as they're not prevented from doing whatever they can through institutional racism, which exists.  The people aren't so racist, but almost half of incarcerated men are black, and inner city schools are often terrible, and the neighborhoods are dangerous and under-served, and businesses don't invest in disadvantaged communities even though there is no profit reason for why not.  There is a lot of work to do in this country before we have a level playing field for black Americans.  So, no, I think that would be seen as stupid.  If racism wasn't a factor for Barack, it's because the DNC liked him and so the leaders weren't biased against him and because the people aren't so racist (or so sexist, turns out).  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:28:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why don't you think it's a compliment? (none / 0)

It's either a compliment, an insult, or a neutral comment. I really only see the first option as a viable interpretation, the intention is clearly to honor the recipient.

Can you expound on your take?


by Neef on Sun Jun 29, 2008 at 11:48:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why don't you think it's a compliment? (none / 0)

the idea that it's an honor?  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Mon Jun 30, 2008 at 07:16:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Okay, let's play... (2.00 / 1)

But unconsciously, he may resent their having a place in the arena which he's trying to penetrate

"Penetrate?"  Sexist!
by username on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 08:22:35 PM EST

LOL - mojo for you (none / 0)

wordplay is fun.


by catfish2 on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:15:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL - mojo for you (none / 0)

men often like that word?  It's not a put down?  


Hillary - alternative energy
by anna shane on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 09:31:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL - mojo for you (