Hillary's big donors need to "Get over it"

Look, I completely understand the idea that there is an entire generation of older women voters that are devastated by Hillary's loss in the primary. For many of these women, they have had to go through their entire lives wondering they would ever see a woman climb so high in national government - and the one woman who they believed most qualified to fulfill this dream has failed. For these women, Hillary's candidacy was not only a fulfillment of their own hopes/dreams, but a sign of what is possible to their daughters/nieces/granddaughters. Although the vast majority of these women will eventually come around to support Obama because of the violence that a McCain presidency would do to these hopes/aspirations, it will take some time for the wound to heal.

Wealthy donors, at least in my mind, many of whom are titular and symbolic heads/leaders of the Democratic Party, need to quickly circle wagons. Instead, we see these people acting like petulant children - even as Hillary herself has been the model of grace after a tough loss. I keep reading these "behind the scenes" accounts of these donors - who allegedly have Hillary's interests at heart - continually grousing that Obama isn't doing this or that, and that they are still cold to the idea of Obama as the nominee. These men and women have grown rich and famous by insinuating themselves into the Democratic establishment. They should have been the FIRST people calling for Unity. Instead of moving forward, they are trying to hold Obama hostage until he magically makes Hillary's debt disappear. Why aren't they appealing to her 18,000,000 voters to help Hillary?

Sorry for the rant.  



Display:


This diary... (none / 0)

is sort of a "Kinsian gaffe". While I agree with it 100%, posting it is probably not helpful.

I guess this comment is a Kinsian gaffe as well...


by Lance Bryce on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 12:54:02 PM EST

Re: Hillary's big donors (2.00 / 3)

It's their money.  They can donate it, or not donate it.  Totally up to them.

That being said, I would expect them to be pragmatic about all this.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 12:54:34 PM EST

a good deal of them are republicans (none / 0)

they were being pragmatic already. ;=)


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:41:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's big donors need to (2.00 / 1)


by spunkmeyer on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 12:59:20 PM EST

"Get over it" my butt (2.00 / 7)

I am not part of the democratic establishment and somehow I do not see all the new voters she brought out to vote as establishment either.

Most I just hate a lot of the attitude of Obama supporters, they tend to be self righteous and arrogant. Like they are morally superior for being with Obama and that we are all just establishment hacks.

Hillary supporters are at least doing their grousing behind the scenes, while Obama's primary supporters are grousing in public and in front of cameras and online.

UGH, sorry for my rant, but now that I am a huge Obama supporter, can I please grumble to myself when I'm around other Hillary people without being told to "get over it?"  


by brooklynboi on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:00:59 PM EST

He turned down public funds (1.00 / 1)

so he wouldn't be subjected to a spending limit. Maybe that was a mistake, maybe he won't be able to raise as much money.


by catfish2 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:04:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He turned down public funds (2.00 / 2)

Um.

Hah.

Hah-hah.

Mwahahahahahahahahah.

Hah!

Shit man, that's funny!  Are you high?  I'm all for treating reasonable people with respect and dignity, but he raised more money in the primary than most candidates raise the general, and he did that WITHOUT the Hillary donors.  No matter what you may or may not think, he'll get a good chunk of hers too.

He'll do just fine.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:06:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Then why is he bothering? (none / 0)

Why bother courting her fundraisers at all? He doesn't need them.


by catfish2 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:14:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then why is he bothering? (2.00 / 1)

That's not what I said.  Don't be a fucking child and construct a strawman argument to beat up.

Their help would be incredibly helpful.  He should court their support.  However, we can get by without them if we must.  That doesn't mean we should try to.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:40:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Children resort to profanity (1.00 / 1)

when they're too lazy to pick up a thesaurus.


by catfish2 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:08:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then why is he bothering? (2.00 / 1)

Nice tangent on the OP.  Being intellectually dishonest as usual.


by Regenman on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:48:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That is catfish's MO (2.00 / 1)

(1) catfish makes claim A.

(2) Flaw in claim A is pointed out.

(3) catfish ignores flaw, makes unrelated claim B.

Repeat as necessary.


by JJE on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:35:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Perhaps... (2.00 / 1)

1) It's good to have them.

2) It's their party too.


by Casuist on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:54:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He turned down public funds (2.00 / 2)

Now there's a deadender fantasy for ya.


by spunkmeyer on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:08:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Get over it" my butt (2.00 / 2)

Others have rated this comment as follows:
catfish2

Does it surprise anyone that catfish would give a commentors who acknowledges that he's not a Dem., Mojo?


by venician on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:19:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Get over it" my butt (1.00 / 2)

stick to race baiting comments venician.  not a a part of democratic 'establishment' , does not mean not a democrat , you dunce.


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:24:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Get over it" my butt (2.00 / 1)

Put the Coors down, and type slowly. And try capitals, all the cool kids are doing it.


by venician on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:33:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I give commenters who aren't Dems mojo (none / 0)

all the fucking time. A good deal of them aren't trolls.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:49:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Behind the scenes? (2.00 / 1)

getting quoted by ABC is not grousing behind the scenes.


by JJE on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:38:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bitch all you want, kiddo (none / 0)

I'm more pissed at Hillary's republican backers shitting themselves over losing the least little bit of power to US. American public.

Go US!

(and welcome to the team, we ain't bitchin' at ya!)


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:47:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Woohoo! Insult the voters! Insult the fundraisers! (2.00 / 1)

Did it ever occur to you they find him unlikeable? And he continues to give them reasons to have this view?


by catfish2 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:03:34 PM EST

Somebody give the puma a hug. (2.00 / 0)


by spunkmeyer on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:10:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

he continues to give them? (none / 0)

or they continue to gin them up?


by JJE on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:39:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Insult the fundraisers! (none / 0)

What, exactly, has he done since the end of the primary to "continue to give them reasons to have this view?"

Not his supporters or surrogates, but him.

Got anything?


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:54:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Insult the fundraisers! (2.00 / 1)

The title of the diary, "Get over it", is a quote from Obama to Clinton supporters just last week:

If women take a moment to realize that on every issue important to women, John McCain is not in their corner, that would help them get over it.

The implication is that Clinton supporter's objections to the sexism in the campaign are irrelevant since McCain is so much worse. It was a  signal from Obama that he does not feel a need to reach out to women on issues that are important to them, he will instead use the threat of an even more anti-choice court to scare them into submission.


by souvarine on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:09:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Insult the fundraisers! (none / 0)

I don't read into that sentence what you seem to.  But I agree that using the phrase "get over it" (even when it's not a command/imperative) it a poor choice of words, and he should avoid it in the future.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:29:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Stepford Democrats (1.00 / 0)

Do you really think the woman on the right is a feminist?

Yea right.


by Is This Snark on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:29:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nope (none / 0)

the implication is that if women evaluate the relative positions of the candidates on women's issues, they will realize that Obama is a better choice despite their disappointment at Hillary's loss.  That's it.  You're reading your petty grievances into it, as is the habit for the perpetually outraged.


by JJE on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:29:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Insult the fundraisers! (none / 0)

Sexism was irrelevant.


by Lance Bryce on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:30:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Insult the fundraisers! (none / 0)

I don't dislike Hillary because she is a woman, I dislike her, and I feel many others do because she is Hillary Clinton.  I would have voted for her, and would not have acted like a political terrorist.  My first choice has not been nominated  since I have been able to vote, and I have never seen the petty crying and moaning these bitter Clinton dead enders display.


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:39:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

that's because... (none / 0)

she was SUPPOSED to WIN!

and they all signed up early for tea and crumpets.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:51:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's big donors (2.00 / 1)

I agree that many of the behind the scenes accounts are pretty strange.  I keep reading about how Obama has to do more to pay down Clinton's debt.  Does Clinton, or more appropriately, the companies that she is in debt to, really even expect/want their debts paid down?  I'm sure many of these companies went into this election viewing their work as donations and are more than happy to take the tax right-off.


by such sweet thunder on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:04:27 PM EST

It's a quid pro quo (none / 0)

They would like to see him do something for her before they do something for him. It's also what pols do.


by catfish2 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:06:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's true. (2.00 / 0)

Pumas cry when you don't play with them enough.


by spunkmeyer on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:11:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a quid pro quo (none / 0)

I understand that Clinton donors, and Clinton supporters generally, want some kind of capitulation -- some kind of nod of respect.  But the high-rollers are just flailing around right now.  I doubt Hillary expects/wants her debts to be paid down in a substantive fashion.   There are positive ways to forward your agenda while striving towards unity.  Maggie Williams is now working for Obama's campaign: I'm sure given the unpopularity of that move that Obama made it at the behest of either a major donor or a group (Emily's List, etc.)  The campaign debt thing is a non-starter.


by such sweet thunder on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:16:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's a quid pro quo (none / 0)

i think she wants her debt to be paid off, im pretty sure she said that (?); excluding her own loan though.


by alyssa chaos on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:20:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Umm actually (2.00 / 1)

I have to disagree. Based on campaign finance laws they cannot do this. It would violate the donation limit unless there service were worth no more than $2300.00.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:09:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Umm actually (none / 0)

It happens anyway.  It's hard as hell for a court to make evaluations on when a business owner is offering services inconsistent with other clients.  


by such sweet thunder on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:20:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Umm actually (none / 0)

Well it would need to show up on FEC monthly filing so there's a paper trail. Hence the biz owner could  only right-off $2300 or $4600 if the biz was owned by a husband and wife.


Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof.
by jsfox on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:44:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Umm actually (none / 0)

No, a business owner can right off all of their sunk costs provided that they don't extend the candidate any special advantages and make reasonable attempts to collect the debt.  However, in the consulting and legal world, hundreds of thousands and even millions in client debt is not all that unusual.  It's another gaping hole in campaign finance.  


by such sweet thunder on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:44:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Get over it" (2.00 / 1)

are trying to hold Obama hostage until he magically makes Hillary's debt disappear

Obama is magical, i'll give you that one.


by alyssa chaos on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:10:18 PM EST

donors need to "Get over it" (2.00 / 4)

Ah yes, an entire generation of older women voters acting like petulant children. What on earth could have their knickers in such a twist? They need to "Get over it."

Are you guys trying out for a role on Mad Men or something?


by souvarine on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:17:43 PM EST

an entire generation? (none / 0)

please.  maybe 1000.


by JJE on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:34:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: an entire generation? (2.00 / 1)

I'm just quoting the diary, I agree it is idiotic.


by souvarine on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:38:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: donors need to "Get over it" (none / 0)

What a manipulative and dishonest conflation of two different points.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:38:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That is BULLSHIT (none / 0)

And you know it. I am talking specifically about the big time money donors.


by highgrade on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 07:47:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton Haters need to Get over it (2.00 / 5)

If you really think that Hillary Clinton's supporters are limited to just a "generation of older women", then you clearly weren't paying much attention during the primaries. If, on the otherhand, you threw that line in just to be condescending and insulting to Clinton and her supporters, then you really need to get over it.


by LakersFan on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:43:10 PM EST

Re: Clinton Haters need to Get over it (none / 0)

As I'm sure you noticed, the "get over it" in this diary was directed at her biggest donors, those with their hands on the money faucet.  Not her supporters.

Quibble with the distinction if you want, but don't play like it ain't there.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 01:57:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Haters need to Get over it (none / 0)

The diary was most definitely trying to put down Clinton and/or her supporters, and I have no problem telling the diarist (and all other Clinton haters) to get over it.

And I'm quite sure that you noticed that, but you've chosen to quibble over my words instead.


by LakersFan on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:11:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Haters need to Get over it (none / 0)

Well, if that's how you see it, I question your reading comprehension skills.

If you really think that Hillary Clinton's supporters are limited to just a "generation of older women"

Please tell me how the first sentence of this diary supports your addition of "limited" and "just."

The first paragraph of this diary describes the author's sympathy for those Clinton voters who need time to come over to supporting the Democratic nominee.

The second paragraph says, still, her donors need to circle the wagons because it's important to keep the pressure on McCain.  Voters have until Nov. to decide; major donors don't if they want to have an impact.

Disagree with it if you want.  But I have to say that I find your assertion that the diary is intended to "put down Clinton and/or her supporters" and written by a "Clinton hater" is pretty much nonsense.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:25:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Haters need to Get over it (none / 0)

Did you write this diary? I was specifically addressing the condescending language this diarist chose. Seriously, do you really think that a diary with "get over it" in the title wasn't meant as a put down?


by LakersFan on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:54:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Kobe sucks (none / 0)


by JJE on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:27:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Kobe sucks (none / 0)

I love Lakers haters. The fact that there are so many of you just proves how good my team is.


by LakersFan on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 06:43:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

2nd place isn't good enough though (none / 0)

it was a close call between rooting against Bryant or rooting against the execrable Boston fans.

Gasol needs to get tougher.  He didn't succumb to Euroweenie ball against Duncan but he was clearly intimidated by KG.


by JJE on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 08:37:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: 2nd place isn't good enough though (none / 0)

We've won 5 championships since the last time the Celtics won one, so we're okay letting them have this one to get the rivalry going again. Gasol's not a center. We'll win it all next year with Bynum.


by LakersFan on Sat Jun 28, 2008 at 01:26:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Haters need to Get over it (2.00 / 1)

Not to mention the condescending attempt at magnanimity by trying to sound like he understands what Clinton's potential nomination meant for women, daughters and granddaughters.

I supported her because I thought she was the most talented and competent.  

Obama supporters just can't understand that many of us, who will vote for Obama because we have no choice, think that, on his own merits, he is not a good candidate and are disenchanted with him being the nominee, even nervous.

HE's flip-flopped in everything from FISA to gun control to Rev. Wrigth to wearing the stupid flag pin.

Obama is a pleaser.  Not a good quality for a president.


by Juno on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:17:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Haters need to Get over it (none / 0)

I would have gotten hide rated if I said anything like that about Clinton.  


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:19:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Haters need to Get over it (2.00 / 1)

Said anything like what?

What is "hide rated"? The zero thing?  I get that all the time, and if only 1s could be converted in to gasoline and home heating oil, I'd be set for life!

The last two posts I put up were deleted.

The left wing, despite all its hootin' and hollerin' about Bush's quashing of dissent, isn't so tolerant themselves.  I've seen it a lot of blogs.

What did I say about Obama that isn't true, btw?


by Juno on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:25:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Haters need to Get over it (none / 0)

I would respond, but one of the Hillary Hide Nazis would just zero rate me.


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:27:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Haters need to Get over it (none / 0)

Translation: you can't.


by Juno on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:35:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Haters need to Get over it (none / 0)

Translation=Hillary Hide Nazis are watching, always watching.  She was a terrible candidate running a bad campaign.  In the end she fell back to a shame display of Identity politics appealing to low information voters and outright bigots.  The truth is she lost because she was a failure of a  candidate, you cant accept that, and thats fine, personally, I dont care who you vote for, but the vocal political terrorists that have become the voice of "Hillary" are a joke and are seen as such.


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:42:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Haters need to Get over it (2.00 / 1)

Who said I can't accept that?

I've said all along I want the one who is bad at politics but better at policy and governing.

Obama is very good at politics. So was Bush.  

Clinton not so good at politics.

But on policy and actual governing, I think Clinton is far more competent.

She lost because Americans are still picking people based on liking them and/or personality garbage.

Btw, interesting you whining about the kind of campaign Clinton ran by calling other people Nazis.

Obamans, like bushies, have one set of standards for themselves and an entirely different set for everyone else.  Doesn't bode well for unity and change.


by Juno on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:48:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Haters need to Get over it (2.00 / 4)

The funny thing is, Obama suppporters like to criticize Clinton for being dishonest. But she was the one who was being honest about politics all along.


by LakersFan on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:24:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton Haters need to Get over it (none / 0)

BINGO!!!

Someone put it brilliantly once, I saw: Hillary Clinton is more honest in her dishonesty than is Obama.


by Juno on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:26:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

HRC supporters annoyed with antiHRC dems (2.00 / 3)

Its funny, but as an Obama supporter in the general election I still don't care for the rudeness I receive from the primary voters for Obama. I also have not heard one word from Clinton asking for debt relief from Obama, just that that is what Obama is doing to make amends. When someone gives a gift, why get mad at the receiver?

Also, aren't you begging me to give to Obama like I gave to Clinton? All while making me feel guilty and stupid for not "getting over it."

Clinton voters were also new voters in the primary process. I might be a young urban white 30 something male who loves her, and obviously not the majority of her core demographic, but I am proud of the company I keep. I respect my mom and grandmothers for backing Clinton and voting again and proudly for democrats, lets keep that momentum going.

It is not a moral question to give or not give to Obama. I plan to give, but with unjustified sentiments from bitter primary Obama supporters, I feel less and less inclined. It puts a sour taste in my mouth.


by brooklynboi on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:06:55 PM EST

Re: HRC supporters annoyed with antiHRC dems (none / 0)

Then I'll be frank.  Don't be a dumbass by letting Obama-supporting dumbasses effect how you view issues of policy.

It's a different kind of stupid, yes, but it's equally stupid.  If you base your vote and your donations on what some idiots on the internet do, you're frankly doing no better.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:43:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: HRC supporters annoyed with antiHRC dems (none / 0)

You're really right. I have to wonder how many of these so-called Obama supporters aren't just republicans sent here to create rifts.


by Dari on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 03:14:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That would be the best way (none / 0)

to keep the wounds fresh.

So you can assume the Repubs have thought of it.


by Neef on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 10:03:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary hide Nazis (none / 0)

Need to get over it too.


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:11:04 PM EST

Re: Hillary hide Nazis (2.00 / 1)

This Jewish Obama supporter insists you stop using that word that way.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:44:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary hide Nazis (none / 0)

I will have to come with a better term for Clinton supporters that hide rate everything they see that is not completely flattering of their point of view then, do you have any suggestions?


"Is there no keeping with class in whom we mingle with anymore?"
by Brandon on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 03:01:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary's big donors (2.00 / 1)

These type of stories don't help

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25411295/

"She asked the candidate whether he would reach out to former President Bill Clinton. Obama reacted positively -- sort of.

"I'm cool with that," he reportedly told her.

She found that outrageous. "'Cool with that?' Are you kidding me?"


by JustJennifer on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:30:55 PM EST

Re: Hillary's big donors (2.00 / 1)

OMFG, he used a hip reference.  Taze him, Officer Bro.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 02:44:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That story was disturbing (none / 0)

"A lot of us were upset that she was making things easy for him," said one donor."

It's only a matter of time before they begin to turn on Hillary herself.

THAT's "outrageous".


by Neef on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 10:07:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am a male Hillary Clinton supporter (none / 0)

who will STILL never vote for Obama. Unity, Smunity.


by handsomegent on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 04:39:38 PM EST


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