Obama and Clinton vote "Not Voting" on FISA Cloture

  Today on the historic motion on Cloture to proceed (Motion to Invoke Cloture on the Motion to Proceed to H.R. 6304 ) with the Measure Number H.R. 6304 (Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 ). H.R. 6304 is a Senate bill to amend the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 to establish a procedure for authorizing certain acquisitions of foreign intelligence, and for other purposes. Amongst the list of 5 Senator "not voting" are Obama and Clinton who are not sick or are not Republican. Amongst the rest 3 are Kennedy and Bryd who are really sick and are absent from the Senate. The last one is McCain who is the Republican Senator to have missed most votes this year. Amongst those who opposed the bill included Senators like Boxer, Feingold, Biden and Dodd.

NAYs ---15
Biden (D-DE)
Boxer (D-CA)
Brown (D-OH)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Dodd (D-CT)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Harkin (D-IA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Sanders (I-VT)
Schumer (D-NY)
Wyden (D-OR)

Not Voting - 5
Byrd (D-WV)
Clinton (D-NY)
Kennedy (D-MA)
McCain (R-AZ)
Obama (D-IL)

Grouped By Vote Position YEAs ---80
Akaka (D-HI)
Alexander (R-TN)
Allard (R-CO)
Barrasso (R-WY)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Bennett (R-UT)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Bond (R-MO)
Brownback (R-KS)
Bunning (R-KY)
Burr (R-NC)
Cardin (D-MD)
Carper (D-DE)
Casey (D-PA)
Chambliss (R-GA)
Coburn (R-OK)
Cochran (R-MS)
Coleman (R-MN)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corker (R-TN)
Cornyn (R-TX)
Craig (R-ID)
Crapo (R-ID)
DeMint (R-SC)
Dole (R-NC)
 Domenici (R-NM)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Ensign (R-NV)
Enzi (R-WY)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Graham (R-SC)
Grassley (R-IA)
Gregg (R-NH)
Hagel (R-NE)
Hatch (R-UT)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Inhofe (R-OK)
Inouye (D-HI)
Isakson (R-GA)
Johnson (D-SD)
Klobuchar (D-MN)
Kohl (D-WI)
Kyl (R-AZ)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (ID-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lugar (R-IN)
Martinez (R-FL)
McCaskill (D-MO)
McConnell (R-KY)
Mikulski (D-MD)
 Murkowski (R-AK)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Reid (D-NV)
Roberts (R-KS)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Sessions (R-AL)
Shelby (R-AL)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Specter (R-PA)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Stevens (R-AK)
Sununu (R-NH)
Tester (D-MT)
Thune (R-SD)
Vitter (R-LA)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Webb (D-VA)
Whitehouse (D-RI)
Wicker (R-MS)

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/ro ll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?con gress=110&session=2&vote=00158#p osition

Ian Welsh at Firedoglake writes:

I do want to give a nod to Feingold and Dodd for being consistently on the right side of this issue. The 15 who voted against deserve to be remembered for doing so. 80 voting for means that the leadership was pushing hard, we lost significant numbers of votes from last time.

As for Obama, well, here's what he had to say:

"The bill has changed. So I don't think the security threats have changed, I think the security threats are similar. My view on FISA has always been that the issue of the phone companies per se is not one that overrides the security interests of the American people."

Regular readers of FDL and EmptyWheel will know that this is security theater and that there is no reason to believe that gutting the 4th amendment will make Americans safer, even if Obama is willing to ignore his oath to uphold the Constitution. This is a sad day, especially for those of us who believed Obama when he said he would support a filibuster against retroactive immunity.

http://firedoglake.com/2008/06/25/the-re al-fisa-vote-passes-80-to-15-with-the-pr esidential-nominees-passing/

The question is "are you disappointed with Obama and Clinton's not voting on this important Cloture Bill?" What does it say about them and about us??



Display:


What do you say? Discuss.... (none / 0)


by louisprandtl on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:26:22 AM EST

Re: Obama and Clinton vote "Not Voting" (2.00 / 1)

It says they were informed that there was absolutely no chance their votes would make a difference. I don't know why Clinton didn't vote, but Obama and McCain are on the campaign trail, so it's obvious why they didn't go to DC to cast a vote that wouldn't change anything.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:31:01 AM EST

Re: Obama and Clinton vote "Not Voting" (2.00 / 1)

She said she was going to be taking a break.  


Saxby Chambliss
by bosdcla14 on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:38:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama was in Chicago and Beardstown, Illinois (none / 0)

on June 25th 2008.


by louisprandtl on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:47:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama was in Chicago and Beardstown, Illinois (2.00 / 1)

The vote probably occurred when she met with the Congressional House delegation and the subsequent press conference.

It is probably to give her some cover as well.


by Blazers Edge on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:49:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

is that a cover or unfortunate display of lack (none / 0)

of leadership?


by louisprandtl on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:57:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: is that a cover or unfortunate display of lack (2.00 / 2)

Both.  Judging by McCain's histrionic reaction to the Supreme Court's decision today, I can just imagine the missive he would launch at Obama or Clinton if either of them had voted nay.  I think it would be effective politically as well.  Terrorism and national security is all McCain has got.


by Blazers Edge on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 04:01:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Agreed, But should our leaders be afraid of (none / 0)

taking a principled stand because they will be criticized by their Republican opponents? Hadn't that been our problem all along?


by louisprandtl on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 04:04:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Agreed, But should our leaders be afraid of (2.00 / 1)

Yes, they should be very afraid.  I don't believe that the country has moved leftward in terms of national security or foreign policy issues and I consider the FISA issue to fall into this category; we've won the hearts and minds of the public with respect to economic, domestic, and energy issues but the social (e.g. see today's death penalty case, the California ruling) and this stuff are all the Republicans have.


by Blazers Edge on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 04:08:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Good pragmatic answer.. (none / 0)

atleast 15 progressive Senators were not hesitant to take a principled stand...


by louisprandtl on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 04:12:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good pragmatic answer.. (2.00 / 1)

Well, none of those fifteen are running for president.  Would Kerry have cast his vote in this way four years ago?  I agree that Clinton and Obama are taking the unprincipled stand but the two are in a different situation than the rest.  Webb, Reed, and Bayh joined the pig sty.


by Blazers Edge on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 04:15:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

First they were honorable folks...then they (none / 0)

became politicians...


by louisprandtl on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 04:24:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Good pragmatic answer.. (none / 0)

Uh when are they going to announce Sen. Webb as VP on the Dem ticket?


by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:55:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I worried, very worried. (none / 0)

I think we'll see about a dozen diaries tomorrow talking about how people are soooo disappointed in Clinton.


by Can I Haz Moar Snark on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:37:33 AM EST

Great to see (2.00 / 2)

Bayh voting yea as well; the only reason why I would want him to serve as the VP is that it would finally end the speculation that we get each election cycle about him serving as someone's VP.  

The guy allegedly suggested on Andrea Mitchell's show that he was being vetted already.  We'll see but I find his VP chances to be pretty low.


by Blazers Edge on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:52:20 AM EST

Re: Great to see (none / 0)

How do you feel about Sen. Webb as VP?


by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:56:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Apalling Silence of Good People" (2.00 / 1)

"History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people." Martin Luther King Jr.

I ascribe the Not Voting of Clinton and Obama as "apalling silence of Good people.."


by louisprandtl on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:55:48 AM EST

Re: "Apalling Silence of Good People" (2.00 / 1)

Leading by example?


by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:56:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're part right.... (2.00 / 1)

Excuse me?  I'm disappointed in BOTH of them, thank you very much.  My thinking was that their teams absolutely did coordinate this vote (both had an interest in promoting 'unity' so that their event on Friday would not be possibly upstaged by their disagreement).

But I'm sure it was the Obama camp that wasn't going to budge on this one.  If Hillary could have gone her own way here, she honestly might have voted against cloture.  


by MMR2 on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:57:34 AM EST

Responding to Can I Haz (2.00 / 1)


by MMR2 on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:58:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Responding to Can I Haz (none / 0)

And I was responding to the handful of anti-Obama trolls that post diaries here daily.  Many of them are PUMA folks, others just don't care for Obama.

I'm just speculating about the response said trolls may have towards Obama and Clinton engaging in the same manner.


by Can I Haz Moar Snark on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 04:08:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm sorry,PUMAs hardly affect us in our real lives (none / 0)

leaders like Obama and Clinton's actions or lack of actions thereof, have much higher effect...


by louisprandtl on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 04:14:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 1)

You know being Senator and representing the folks in their states is what they're supposed to do.

I'm reading that sitting this vote out was supposed to be good strategy. But I'm just wondering what they're gonna do about it when elected. How are they going to go to the country and say, "Hey I want to repeal or ammend this FISA bill now that I'm president. Yeah I know I didn't bother showing up for the vote for it because well I didn't think our vote counted and it was a political calculation and ... But hey now that I'm in  office???"

Come on. Your kidding right.

Showing up and voting lays the ground work for repeal. Better how's Sen. Obama going to lead from the White House when he can't lead in the Senate? Now. This is a issue near and dear correct. His base isn't going to leave him if he leads for this bill to fail. He has greater visibility, he's in the Senate and can meet with folks daily, it certainly has alot to do with the GE. Just sitting it out to avoid a conflict? To get elected? Thinking you'll go into office and change it back?

I thought that it was a new day.

I thought that it was about doing the right thing not the politically expedient thing. What was going to happen? Were Dems who are against the war in Iraq and for civil liberties  going to be angry if he uses his time to change the minds of his fellow Senators? Wow think of the free press if he lead the revolution against this bill. If you don't think this is possible? You should read about what Sen. Carol Mosley Braun did when she was Senator. LOL She took an issue that was supposed to be a shoe in and turned the tide. If Sen. Obama can't do this now in the Senate, how in Hades is he going to do it from the Oval office? How is he going to pull us out of Iraq? Someone blogged about the changes his change in  position as the primaries went on. That person was attacked unmercifully. I thought that was what Republicans do if you dissagree? Remember if you are against the invasion of Iraq you're for the terroists and against God, the soldier, and America?

Will we have the same when folks complain that Sen. Obama isn't pulling us out of Iraq? And yes I want to know where Sen. McCain and Sen. Clinton were too. I really do.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 04:22:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You have it right....although I supported (none / 0)

HRC for the primary, but never found her infamous Iraq vote palatable. Similarly this inaction of Obama and HRC was very disappointing. Progressive liberal secular values far too long had been undermined by opportunistic politicians. Once primaries are over, all of the homages to progressive politics disappears..all we are then left with no choice but to hand our vote to a right of center candidate in the truest sense who is a shade better than the extreme right wing nut who is running against him..unfortunately history is a cruel joke when it repeats itself too many times..and we fall for it everytime.


by louisprandtl on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 06:21:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're part right.... (none / 0)

You're sure?  You have any sources to support your proposition?


by Blazers Edge on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:59:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're part right.... (none / 0)

My reasoning:  Obama had already gestured publicly that he was likely to vote for the bill, along with most of the Senate.  (Most likely, he knew he was risking drawing the ire of his supporters, but also that of independents and Republicans if he went the other way as an 'obstructionist').  They are having a unity event this Friday, and their consultants surely know that a divergence on this particular vote might overshadow their event, or at the least, diminish some of the unity aura.

What I believe, given Clinton's prior track record on FISA (and the need to shore up her reputation among progressives): that she would have voted AGAINST cloture on this bill.  

A compromise was likely reached between the two camps that both Senators would simply not vote on the bill.  It truly is a tough political situation for Obama, even a lose-lose-lose situation: he draws flak by voting No or Yes, AND he draws flak by, essentially, voting "Present" again (Not Voting).


by MMR2 on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 04:40:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

its also a good thing (none / 0)

that McCain wasnt there to vote either, because it cant be used as ammo.

I bet if McCain was there, both HRC and BO would have voted, how they would have voted... i dont know, but they would have.


vote blue in 2008
by sepulvedaj3 on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 11:09:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton vote "Not Voting" on FISA (none / 0)

Isn't cloture something they do to prevent a filibuster?

I don't know what she hoped to gain by missing the vote. It is not like her to duck a vote. The primary is over. She has returned to the Senate. I expected her to vote 'yea'.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 03:59:37 AM EST

Why did you expect HRC to vote yea? (none / 0)


by louisprandtl on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 04:01:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why did you expect HRC to vote yea? (none / 0)

On national security I believe she is right of center. I didn't think she would vote no on FISA because of telecom immunity.

The government asked the telecoms for cooperation. Is it fair to punish them for doing what the government asked? The telecoms probably didn't know this would be made public.

I think the people could punish them by canceling services with those involved. Hurt the bottom line and in the future they would act differently. I think that would be more effective than anything that would happen in the courts.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 04:32:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why did you expect HRC to vote yea? (none / 0)

Individual market forces are a shitty way of effecting national politics; this should really see a courtroom.  The phone companies should be held accountable if they broke the law.  Not all phone companies agreed with the Bush administration.

They have their own lawyers you know.  

Anyway I hope you're not backing off of this just because Hillary Clinton has.  If you are, you won't be alone - I've seen Obama supporters doing that too.


by MeganLocke on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 05:29:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why did you expect HRC to vote yea? (none / 0)

I backed off when I canceled all of my AT&T services last year.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 02:06:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

When Government personnel ask a corporation (none / 0)

to do something that violates the law, the corporation have an obligation to follow the rule of the law. In this case, Quest did the right thing. All major corporations have legal counsels which advises the management and the directors on the letter of the law. There was no justification for the telecom industry to violate the law.


by louisprandtl on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 01:27:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When Government personnel ask a corporation (none / 0)

Yes, but if you feel only the courts can redress the issue you have limited yourself to an avenue that has failed based on the cloture vote.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 02:09:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton vote "Not Voting" on FISA (none / 0)

I hope no one accuses me of "slamming Clinton", but she misses her fair share of votes, believe me.


by MeganLocke on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 05:26:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton vote "Not Voting" on FISA (none / 0)

I won't bash you for that Megan. Not at all.


by 12 dogs and a blog on Fri Jun 27, 2008 at 12:20:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

terribly disappointed (2.00 / 1)

It now seems ok for them to flush our civil liberties down the tube now that the primaries are over.


by tarheel74 on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 09:00:54 AM EST

Kerry (2.00 / 1)

Just a heads up for my senator, Kerry, who just about always ends up on the right side of any issue.  I wish he had fought as hard for the presidency as Clinton and Obama fought the primary.  


by mady on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 10:07:07 AM EST

Disappointed, yes (2.00 / 1)

Though this bill really isn't as terrible as people seem to think it is.  It does not "flush 4th Amendment protections down the toilet" or what have you, it specifically includes judicial oversight and 4th Amendment protections.  And there really are new threats that we couldn't handle with the pre-existing FISA: we wouldn't be able to monitor Skype calls, for example, and you can be certain that with the proliferation of new Internet communication tools, terrorist organizations will move to them.

The only thing that really sticks in my craw is the telecom immunity and accountability for past lawbreaking.  I had hoped Obama would vote to filibuster this unless those provisions were removed or rewritten.  It's a disappointment.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 10:36:22 AM EST

Your last paragraph hit the nail on the head... (none / 0)

it is an extreme disappointment on the telecom retroactive immunity..


by louisprandtl on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 01:28:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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