the founders of this country would have STRONGLY opposed as a step on the road to despotism.

The Bush administration has routinely ignored existing law and the common carriers have gone along with them. If we have laws, and we did and do, we should enforce them. We should not give them an amnesty for breaking laws in the past.

This is an area where if there is reason to believe that there is an actual threat, the government can and does get permission to wiretap, etc.

Giving them a green light to spy on people without any checks and balances would be a mistake, I think.

I'm an Obama supporter and I'd love to see her stand up against this.  I think Obama is wrong on this issue or at least isn't showing the leadership he ought to.  He's caught in a political minefield so I feel for him but he should've just said the retro immunity made the bill unacceptable, period.

Per some of the things I've seen on Olbermann, there's conjecture out there that the telecoms have a lot on a number of Dems throughout this mess too and it will come out unless there's immunity.  Now, I'm all for the truth coming out regardless, but it makes sense politically for many of them to support this bill if it hurts them personally not to.  And the way they see it, Bush is gone in a few months anyway.

That said, principle is more important here and I hope they filibuster it.

Hillary knows by now that the "Beltway Insider Cocktail Party Club" is absolutely worthless. And hopefully, the Obama folks won't see opposing this FISA compromise as "undermining" him. I mean, are Feingold, Dodd, AND Schumer all trying to "undermine" Barack? I don't think so.

Who cares if it looks like it is undermining Obama?  Our rights are more important than his feelings.  The political bullshit pandering is what got us in the mess in the first place.  She should do what she thinks is right for this country and uphold the oath she took when she was sworn in.

Where has Obama dissed his base? He has said he is against immunity and he likely will support a filibuster.

That being said, we don't really want this fight to drag on into the General Election. McCain will beat us over the head with it as evidence that we are weak on National Security and that is a club we do not need to give him.

We need to get rid of retroactive immunity and go from there.

She should vote the way she wants to vote.  Obama has NOT said he is going to vote yes for the bill as is, I think he's hoping/pushing via backchannels to never have to get to a point where he has to vote against the bill.  If the Dems can get enough support in the senate to vote against the immunity clause, but keep the rest of the bill, they win.

But, the main point here is that all the extreme lefties want Obama to come out and be some vanguard against this, but the truth is, it's the same trap progressive candidates always fall into.  If you make too strong an impassioned defense while running for office, your opponent just turns it against you and you end up losing the office.  No, if Obama is playing the back channels and getting other Dems to put up the "principled front against FISA", including Senator Clinton, the desired goal of stopping FISA is still met and he doesn't give political ammunition to the GOP who are already trying to paint him as too liberal.

It amazes me that progressives still don't get it, principled stances and "statements" are all nice and give you emotional satisfaction, but the reason Dems have not really been the policy makers for any length of time since the late 60s is because we tend to commit political suicide everytime we are close to grasping the reins outright.  For now we need to get the FISA bill bumped back into committee or something in the Senate and keep our eyes on the prize till November.

Who said he doesn't oppose it!

Try reading first.  He does oppose immunity.

I like Chuck Schumer but I wish he would be consistent. He together with DiFi voted down a bill demanding a paper trail. That still burns me. I sent them both an angry e-mail and got weaselly mush about there not being enough time before the 08 election to put together sufficient controls.