I know what Nader's Problem is (UPDATE)

Well, aside from the obvious.

Turns out he's a racist.

Like our friend Geraldine Ferraro, Nader is stuck in the past, and has certain expectations of a black politician:

There's only one thing different about Barack Obama when it comes to being a Democratic presidential candidate. He's half African-American," Nader said. "Whether that will make any difference, I don't know. I haven't heard him have a strong crackdown on economic exploitation in the ghettos. Payday loans, predatory lending, asbestos, lead. What's keeping him from doing that? Is it because he wants to talk white? He doesn't want to appear like Jesse Jackson? We'll see all that play out in the next few months and if he gets elected afterwards."

Let's look at his remarks a little more closely.

"Talk white," eh?  Is he really talking "white" or is he talking like a Harvard-educated lawyer?  Must we really look at a politician's ability to speak to multiple demographics (I seem to recall Hillary Clinton's wonderful ability to drawl a little with the accent of whatever region she's in) and criticize them for it?  Should a black politician speak only ebonics?  Perhaps they should have rap concerts instead of rallies.  Are we realizing how ridiculous this is, yet, Ralph?

Now, I'm as familiar with black comedians as anyone who has Comedy Central, and plenty of them have "white guy talks like this, and black guy talks like this" routines.  While a  tired trope by now, most of us agree that, yes, there are some linguistic and cultural differences between mainstream black and mainstream white cultures.  We tend to give black comedians a pass on it, because it's observational, it can be funny despite the age of the trope, and since blacks have been on the recieving end of racial bias for so long, a little harmless turnabout can be fair play.

Our friend Jeremiah Wright took this to a whole new level at the NAACP dinner a couple months back, but this was just before he made a fool of himself at the Press Club, so I'm going to give him a pass on that, too.

So what's Nader's excuse?  What?  Still not convinced that he's out of line?  Try this:

"I mean, first of all, the number one thing that a black American politician aspiring to the presidency should be is to candidly describe the plight of the poor, especially in the inner cities and the rural areas, and have a very detailed platform about how the poor is going to be defended by the law, is going to be protected by the law, and is going to be liberated by the law," Nader said. "Haven't heard a thing."

Did you hear that, black politicians?  You should be inner city and rural candidates, define your candidacy by your skin color, even if you happen to think of yourself as an American first.  I am a great admirer of Jesse Jackson's candidacies in the '80s and am certain that Barack Obama would not be where he is today had Jackson never run, but the strength of Jackson's appeal was never broad-based enough to make a serious run for the White House.  What Nader is doing here is complaining that Obama is campaigning as an American.  Successfully.

"He wants to show that he is not a threatening . . . another politically threatening African-American politician," Nader said. "He wants to appeal to white guilt. You appeal to white guilt not by coming on as black is beautiful, black is powerful. Basically he's coming on as someone who is not going to threaten the white power structure, whether it's corporate or whether it's simply oligarchic. And they love it. Whites just eat it up."

Why, Ralph?  Why must we be obsessed with the color of the man's skin?  Are you suggesting that Obama's repeated vows to change Washington is not a threat to the "white power structure?"  Are his repeated criticisms of George W. Bush, his distant cousin, Dick Cheney, and John Sydney McCain III, all white men, to be met with skepticism because he's denegrating them for their disasterous policies instead of simply railing against "whitey?"

I think the Obama campaign's response speaks for a lot of us:

We are obviously disappointed with these very backward-looking remarks.

Once again, we run into this offhand sort of racial catagorization that does not appear to raise any alarms in these older public figures.  Now, it's clear that Nader's time has come and gone (the latest report has him at $2 million in total fundraising with matching funds, assuming the FEC gains quorum and decides to help him), and that something happened in a phone call between Obama and Nader just before he went on Meet The Press a couple months ago to make him decide that he would start treating Obama as a candidate identical to any other Democrat or Republican (though his arguments on this get somewhat strained when we compare George W. Bush and Al Gore).  Could it be that Nader's decision to go after Obama has a racial contributing factor?

Or am I just overthinking this Nader thing entirely?

UPDATE: Obama strikes back.

Well, I don't know what we'd be calling it. It's downright delusional, whether it's being said by Karl Rove, Charlie Black, Ralph Nader, or by me. I think those comments -- as I said a minute ago -- are reprehensible. I can't begin to think what the thought process is that goes through some person's mind before they open their mouth and suddenly that comes out... I think this war of words -- whether it's Karl Rove or Ralph Nader -- that's exactly the type of stuff that needs to stop. Because you know what, words and rhetoric, none of that's making college cheaper. None of that's helping people to get the gas this need to go to their job or look for another job, which is what Barack Obama is focused on in this campaign. Obviously, I think those remarks are reprehensible and delusional. But I don't know that I'd dignify them a whole lot more by talking about who said them and why.

Fair enough, sir.


Poll
Is Nader a problem?
Yes.
No.

Votes: 27
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


He's a Republican stooge, so of course (2.00 / 3)

he's a damn racist.


by Geekesque on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:12:50 AM EST

Re: So I finally figured out the problem with Nade (2.00 / 2)

Nader is not a racist. He probably has inflexible thinking on some issues. But he has been overall a strong voice on the important issues. If our party exhibited the same stubbornness, maybe we don't allow the Bushies to get away with so much. People keep getting afraid of what the so called crossover people think.

If our senators and congressmen exhibited some spine, Nader would be a total non factor at the polls.


by Pravin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:16:30 AM EST

Could you clarify? (2.00 / 2)

I'm not sure how his comments could be taken out of context as not being, if not racist, then at the very least unhelpfully racial.  He's basically calling out Obama for not being "black enough."


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:22:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could you clarify? (2.00 / 1)

He probably has inflexible thinking on some issues.

Wow, just wow.

Inflexible thinking,  I love that there are members on this site who love to give passes on racists.

So I guess Ferraro also have "inflexible thinking"?


by DemsLandslide2008 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:48:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could you clarify? (2.00 / 3)

If you use the word racist so freely, it will lose its meaning.


by Pravin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:39:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could you clarify? (2.00 / 1)

But if you don't use it when it applies, it will also lose its meaning.  Nader thinks that because Obama is African-American, his priorities and actions should be different from mine.  Nader's comments represent a clear opinion that Obama should behave and speak a certain way and to certain policies based on nothing but the color of his skin.  If that's not racism, what is?


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:33:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could you clarify? (none / 0)

Having higher expectations for a black politician after all these years of white politician neglecting these issues and black leeaders complaining that not paying attention to those issues was tantamount to white leaders not paying attention to black oriented issues is not racist. It may be unfair.

Anyway, I am not saying what Nader said is fair. Obama gave a good response saying that nader shoudl pay attention to what Obama has been saying. However, the topic was about that statement he made. The statement in itself is not racist.


by Pravin on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 05:23:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Could you clarify? (none / 0)

Fair enough; but I think it was a mistake on Nader's part to introduce color to those issues.  Urban issues are predominantly seen as "black" issues because of the AA concentration in many US cities; but it's still wrong to treat them as racially based.  Government failures on poverty, health care, education, etc. may impact the urban AA community disproportionately, but that doesn't make them black issues, nor is there a greater imperative for Obama to address basic human rights issues simply because he's black.

I see what you're saying, and can maybe shoehorn your interpretation into something more benign; but Nader's statement was insensitive at best.

I have high expectations for Obama because he's a Democrat and a man who has seen those problems first-hand; but I have no expectations of him relevant to his skin color.


Nos causidicus Obama , ergo nos non suadeo
by rb608 on Thu Jun 26, 2008 at 01:31:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So I finally figured out (2.00 / 2)

Not a racist, I don't think.  He's a jackass, no doubt.  I interpret these remarks to mean that he thinks that Obama is staying the hell away from most of the issues we typically associate with a black politician to avoid being seen as one.  I think Nader is correct, to a point.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:21:20 AM EST

It's more than that. (none / 0)

I mean, first of all, the number one thing that a black American politician aspiring to the presidency should be is to candidly describe the plight of the poor, especially in the inner cities and the rural areas, and have a very detailed platform about how the poor is going to be defended by the law, is going to be protected by the law, and is going to be liberated by the law.

He's passing judgement.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:30:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's more than that. (2.00 / 2)

passing judgment makes him racist?  Accusing everyone who doesn't like Obama or criticizes him as racist is a great way to lose the GE.  Only guilty white liberals and african americans are moved by such tactics.  Swing voters won't fall for it, neither will Latinos and republicans will be turned off totally.


by Teacher1956 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:33:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No, passing judgement on race makes him racist (2.00 / 2)

He's saying that Obama should do certain things because he's a "black politician."

I can think of a lot of things that folks have been told to do because of the color of their skin as well.  Seems to me that we passed a bunch of laws awhile back saying that we shouldn't do that.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:50:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"Nader is an Arab, so he should talk (2.00 / 1)

first and foremost about Israel and the Danish cartoons."

I wonder if Ralph would find that offensive.


by Geekesque on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:09:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Nader is an Arab, so he should talk (none / 0)

Isn't he a Christian Arab?


by Mobar on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:52:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, passing judgement on race makes him racist (2.00 / 2)

Nader is guilty of having higher expectations of Obama in this area because he is black and maybe because Obama has made a big deal of his activism in Chicago's communities , the implication being obama cared a great deal about the issues in the lower class community.

When Nader is using the word not  black enough, he is not using it as an insult, he is saying "dont be a typical white politician who doesnt care about the communities". OK, so it's not the most elegant use of race in a discussion by Nader. But don't go calling every clumsy statement by a politician racist.


by Pravin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:46:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm fine with agreeing to disagree (2.00 / 2)

I think having expectations based on race is racist.  That's my personal position on the issue.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:03:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If you can't see the racism in this, (2.00 / 1)

quite frankly you're part of the problem.


by Geekesque on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:06:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you can't see the racism in this, (2.00 / 2)

That is not racist. People use the word so much they even forgot what it means. They are enough racists in this country that when we start lumping in Naders as racists, then you are actually doing a favor to the real racists.

You want to call it thickheaded, or even prejudiced(which I personally wouldn't even go that far), then that is fine.


by Pravin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:42:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Trying to limit someone by the (2.00 / 2)

color of their skin is racism.  Period.


by Geekesque on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:11:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no, you are part of the problem (2.00 / 1)

and thinking like yours is going to defeat Obama in the fall. Everything that is critical of Obama is not racist.  Race baiting by Obama supporters and his campaign is going to turn people off eventually.


by Teacher1956 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:45:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no, you are part of the problem (2.00 / 3)

I dont think the obama campaign is guilty of race baiting any more than other campaigns you see out there. I personally believe race was a factor in the inordinate amount of time spent on the Rev Wright case. But that's another issue which we discussed to death.


by Pravin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:48:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

when they accused the Clintons of racism (2.00 / 1)

by way of their surrogates, when Obama went along, when they accused voters in small towns of racism ("they can't hear messages of hope when they are given by a 47 year old black man names Barack Obama"), what was that besides race baiting?


by Teacher1956 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:03:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're misrepresenting (2.00 / 1)

Please leave your primary grudges at the door, thanks.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:24:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: when they accused the Clintons of racism (2.00 / 1)

There were quite a few white people who expressed their racism to reporters. Hell, Ed Rendell himself said people in Central PA werent ready for a black man as president.


by Pravin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:00:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Saying he's not acting black enough (2.00 / 3)

and that he's acting too 'white' is blatantly racist.  It's based on the racist assumption that black leaders should talk a certain way and only about 'black' subjects.

Talk to 10 African-American voters and ask them if they like white people equating blackness with poverty.


by Geekesque on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:14:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no, you are part of the problem (2.00 / 1)

A little perspective:

I am african american. I have been accused of talking white by my fellow African Americans for pronouncing my words correctly and speaking eloquently.

I have been asked if I was raised by a white family because of the same.

Both were some of the most hurtful experiences of my life, and when coming from Black people, a kind of self defeating racism that is incredibly painful to see in my people.

I was offended deeply by Nader's words.


If you are not voting Obama, please let me know so I can replace your sorry ass with another new voter.
by Darknesse on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 04:43:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: If you can't see the racism in this, (2.00 / 1)

I would strongly disagree with your atatement. Racism is not so simply defined.


by futbol dad on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:10:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's more than that. (2.00 / 5)

I mean, first of all, the number one thing that a black American politician aspiring to the presidency should be is to candidly describe the plight of the poor, especially in the inner cities and the rural areas

Why is describing the plight of the poor a responsibility specifically of a black politician?  Why does Citizen Nader presume that (a) white politicians don't have the same responsibility, and that (b) all black politicians will (presumably from representing them) necessarily be acquainted with the plight of the poor in inner cities and rural areas?  Why doesn't he think the tony suburbs could elect an African-American to represent them?


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:35:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's more than that. (2.00 / 1)

I dont think Nader is implying white politicians get a free pass on this. I think he has already written off the typical white politician in this aspect. I think he is coming from that POV where he is disllusioned with the typical white politician.

I am not saying that is a 100% true fact. But I can see people who have similar sentiments make a clumsy statement like that. It has nothing to do with blacks only being saddled with this responsibility.


by Pravin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:50:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The only thing I would change in this diary (2.00 / 6)

is the noun "racist" to and adjective phrase "hold racially biased views".  But that is an iterative point of mine.

Certainly a moronic set of statements.  White politicians should act this way, black that way,male this way, female the other way, Hispanic a different way, gay another, yada yada f'ing yada...

The problem with this sort of thinking is that I am sure Nader and those with similar thinking believe they are being somehow progressive.  What they miss is that if we are successful at "progressing" past this divisive world-view we will stop fitting into our neat little boxes and end up as people, instead.

At least with this he lowers his whole ability to effect the GE.

Whadda maroon...

-chris


Motley Moose, Troll Free Blogging
by chrisblask on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:33:37 AM EST

Yeah (2.00 / 2)

The only thing I would change in this diary is the noun "racist" to and adjective phrase "hold racially biased views".  But that is an iterative point of mine.

I struggled with that one, but in the end, I realized that there's very little substantive difference.

I certainly don't think that Nader is a sheet-wearing Grand Wizard, but he's outed himself as having racially informed views... which essentially makes him a racist.  I'm pretty tired of dancing around the issue.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 10:53:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

It makes a difference that I'm pretty (2.00 / 1)

obsessed with.

"She is an addict", "he is a racist" etc. This word usage has the undesired affect of making the "person" in to some other noun, and nouns tend to be permanent.  Rocks remain rocks, but a person's beliefs can change with time.

I try to say "she has an addiction" and "he subscribes to racist views".

A fine point, perhaps, but imho an important one.

-best

-chris


Motley Moose, Troll Free Blogging
by chrisblask on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:20:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Fair enough (2.00 / 2)

On a different day I might agree with you.

Today I'm annoyed as hell at the guy and am not feeling charitable.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:22:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

:-) Me too, he's shown his ignorance. (2.00 / 2)

I'm not above kicking someone in the shins for acting like a bufoon.

-chris


Motley Moose, Troll Free Blogging
by chrisblask on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:29:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So I finally figured out Nader (2.00 / 2)

I don't believe that I would call Nader racist. He comes from the generation where black politicians DID champion the plight of the poor. Nader isn't able to see Obama as a politician instead of as a black politician.


by futbol dad on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:00:36 AM EST

"Nader isn't able to see Obama (2.00 / 1)

as a politician instead of as a black politician."

That makes him racist.


by Geekesque on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:07:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

not at all (2.00 / 1)

Obama is a black politician.  Nader is a white politician.  Pretending to be colorblind is silly, guilty white liberalism.  Recognizing the Obama is Black is not racist.  
Since when doesn't the democratic party addresses the issues of race?  Nader is saying that Obama is avoiding the issues of race and poverty so that he will not be seen a the "black candidate".  I think Nader is probably right.  And it is probably the right tactic too, unfortunate as that may seem.
This is what Nader does, he pretends that the democratic candidate has a choice besides running in a realistic world.  He did it to Gore in 2000 too.  He is an asshole, not a racist.
by Teacher1956 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:08:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just one thing (2.00 / 1)

Obama talks about poverty all the time, and he had a historic speech on race.  These issues feature on his website as well.

Nader is wrong.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:23:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Just one thing (2.00 / 4)

I think that's the gist of it . . .

. . . he's wrong.

I don't think he's a racist, but he's definitely wrong on this.

But what I love is how every time Obama is attacked -  from the left, from the right, by people who would normally be supporting the Dem pres, by people who would obviously dislike him - he's able to answer the attacks rationally and defuse them without (for the most part) engaging in the same kind of behavior.

As a multi-tasker who thinks on his feet and is able continually (for the most part) to say the right thing and put forth good ideas, the guy has no peer.


John McCain is a coward. He has no honor.
by vadasz on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:06:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Judging someone (2.00 / 1)

on the basis of the color of their skin is racist.

He's stating that Obama should discuss certain things because of the color of Obama's skin.


by Geekesque on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 03:17:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Substantive difference? (none / 0)

Nader has an advanced enough intellect to tackle important social issues.  He's smart enough to realize that black politicians can be more than what he saw when he was younger.  

While I agree with Obama that it's generally not helpful to call out the older generations on their biases, this is a guy who is actively trying to undermine the presidential politician that I have more respect for than any other in my voting lifetime... and not just that, but doing it by relying on racial stereotypes.

I see no substantive difference between racism and what Nader is doing here.  If he were my grandpa at the dinner table, or even a retired public figure, I wouldn't have posted a diary... but Ralph Nader has an agenda and a proven ability to implement it in at least a damaging enough capacity to hurt my interests.  So he doesn't get a pass.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:13:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Substantive difference? (2.00 / 3)

I still disagree.  One definition of racism is "a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. (Merriam-Webster)."  Obviously, hi remarks don't match taht definition.

Another definition is "racial prejudice or discrimination(Merriam-Webster)."  

However, in my view, Nader is projecting what he would do as a black candidate. He is not condoning prejudic or discrimination.  


by futbol dad on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:32:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Agree to disagree (none / 0)

Quite frankly, he's being perjorative insofar as he's criticizing Obama for not doing what he expects him to do, like he didn't move to the back of the bus or use the right water fountain.  It's not as grevious as all that, but it's still the same sort of behavior.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:59:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Agree to disagree (2.00 / 1)

No problem. Racism is a topic that should be discussed more often. I had more respect for Nader years ago than I do now. There was a time when I expected a lot from him. I think that his political views have not grown and, in many ways, he has been left behind.


by futbol dad on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:05:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nader the actual big winner (none / 0)

I saw an article awhile back that Nader is actually the big winner this year, because most of the issues of reform and change that were his hallmarks were co-opted by Democratic candidates.  His campaign finance ideas were almost entirely taken on by Obama, for example... just on a much more expansive level.

Which is why I think that something happened in that phone call between them in March that pissed Nader off something fierce.  I've met with Nader supporters, and they're honestly as bad or worse than the PUMA people or Republicans with their specious attack points.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:15:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

* asterisk * (none / 0)

* I should say SOME Nader supporters.  Others are great, even if I do disagree with them.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:16:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: * asterisk * (2.00 / 1)

Thank god their aren't many Nader supporters here.  I wouldn't want to see an outbreak of pro-Nader diaries.


by futbol dad on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:32:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nader Meaningful? (2.00 / 2)

Ralph Nader hasn't been meaningful since "Unsafe at Any Speed" maybe that's taking it a little too far. But everytime this guy runs for office I like him less and less. One of the things Obama has to do as a candidate, unfortunately, is to sound less black, and more mainstream, he's running for President of The United States, not Superintendant of Blacktown.This is a man who through genes and intelligence looks and sounds white. What does Nader want him to do, a Sammy Davis song and dance on stage or sing "Old Man River".This is an intelligent man, who knows what it takes to win an election. Nader is a man who seems like he's trying to undermine Barack Obama's campaign.


John McCain: Everyones nowhere man
by johnny sexton on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:02:25 AM EST

Re: Nader Meaningful? (2.00 / 1)

Nader has an ego like many politicians. All obama has to do is cater to that ego by taking Nader's issues seriously. After all Obama is going to massage many egos in an election year. So why not Nader's. If he doesn't win over Nader, he will at least win over enough Nader voters. I highly doubt Nader will be a factor this election.

If he does get votes, i hope it is those bitter soreloser Hillary voters who would go over to McCain.


by Pravin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:06:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nader Meaningful? (2.00 / 2)

You're right about Nader, he gets less and less meaningful, each time he runs. But he does know how to get television time. And that always scares me just a little bit. He gets up there in his disheveled look tie askew, suit wrinkled, like some kind of modern day Columbo, and some idiots actually do listen. Mostly, to me, in his latter years he just sounds bitter


John McCain: Everyones nowhere man
by johnny sexton on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:24:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Okay, I'll stick my neck out (none / 0)

I myself have been wondering if I missed it or it doesn't exist -- a policy statement addressing urban blight and crushing poverty.  I don't expect this from Obama because it's a "black issue" and he's a "black candidate" -- I expect it from him because he should get it (as a representative from Chicago who was once an urban grassroots organizer) and because most white politicians don't.  So I guess that means I'm agreeing with Nader here -- which scares me -- that Obama seems to be shying off of "black issues" that desperately need addressing so as not to appear a "black candidate".

I don't believe that pushing the issues of the urban poor to the forefront makes him any less an "American candidate".  Last time I looked cities like Detroit and Chicago were still part of America and no one seems to give a damn about them or the people in them.  It's like the entire Democratic Party, in the rush to court Bushites and Reagan Democrats, has an aversion to three terms -- inner city, poverty and union.  I haven't heard a major candidate go off on urban blight and poverty in decades.  

And for those who haven't been to the city lately, it's about the worst I've seen it in four decades -- joblessness, homelessness, blight, crumbling infrastructure, violence, profiling, failing schools and predators of every stripe everywhere you turn.   The urban poor are being eaten alive by the Bush Adminstration without a federal dime in sight, constant cutbacks in programs and assistance.  Those least able to pay are paying the most for everything as opportunities to advance evaporate.  

So yeah, unless I missed it, I'm still waiting for Obama to come out strong on this "black issue" but while he's at it he could come out strong on the same conditions as they exist in pockets of rural poverty and in Native American communities.  

The poor and disenfranchised are Americans too.  


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:12:31 AM EST

Seems like a no-brainer (none / 0)

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/povert y/

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/ 05/19/obama-adopted-by-native-americans/

He


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:18:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

THANK YOU! nt (2.00 / 1)


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:29:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No problem (none / 0)

I really like the Native American story.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:50:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Okay, I'll stick my neck out (none / 0)

I do agree with you. Unfortunately Politicians, no matter who they are, only see the poor and disenfranchised as people with no money, who can't help them reach or attain anything.Also as people who don't vote enough. It's unfortunate, but true.


John McCain: Everyones nowhere man
by johnny sexton on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:29:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 1)

Wow, I'm no fan of Nader but that is a surprise.  I think the guy suffers from "straight talk" diarrhea of the mouth - he believes that he's impervious to criticism and can say basically anything.  One of the problems with Nader is that I'm never sure who or what he's supposed to be fighting - is it "corporatism," the "military-industrial complex," the "white power structure," etc.?  So many vague slogans, so little time.


by rfahey22 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:19:20 AM EST

Ralph Nader vs Darth Vader (2.00 / 2)

Ralph Nader vs Darth Vader


by Aris Katsaris2 on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:24:10 AM EST

Sorry -- this really burns me up (2.00 / 1)

I'm no Nader fan by any means (I still blame him for  GWB) and what he said doesn't read too well.  Yet I have a serious bone to pick with the notion that unless one is color blind they are racist.

Obama is a half black man.  For too long we've been treating this like an impediment or some grand and glorious sign of how wonderfully evolved we've become -- even a black man can be elected president! Yay!

But in the process, what?  He has to abandon the issues closest to the black community for fear of seeming "too black"?  And that notion is being promoted here?

Yes, he is running for president of All Americans, not the "Superintendent of Blacktown" as one commentor put it.  But the issues of the black community ARE or SHOULD BE the issues of the Democratic Party -- urban blight and poverty, failing city schools, racial profiling, the widening gap between the rich and the poor.

For too long we've been diverted and emeshed in idiotic debates about ideological issues like the meaning of the word "marraige" or whether or not it's treasonous to burn a farking flag or whether to teach science or pseudo-science or if our morality is jeopardized by passing out condoms -- while the black community has bee beating wolves off their doors from every front.

Detroit, Chicago, LA, Washington, Baltimore, Phili  -- these don't add up to "Blacktown" -- they add up to a significant chunk of the United States of America.  They send a disproportionate number of young men and women to the military, they anchor sprawling metropolitan areas that feed off of them.  

Obama is not running for the Mayor of Cleaverland or Bibleville.   The cities have been ignored for too long!


Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:29:14 AM EST

Re: Sorry -- this really burns me up (none / 0)

I agree. It is no secret that black politicians have been rightly blasting the white politicians for not caring enough about the inner city communities for a long time. The implication is that if they get topower, they would make more of a difference than a white politician. Let us not deny that such rhetoric has taken place. Whenever a politician has ignored inner city communities, he has been accused of not caring about blacks even though technically there are whites in poor communities including inner cities. Why dont you guys get on your soapbox then accusing black leaders of equating inner city with black issues.  Now one of their own is getting into power(obama has talked a lot about how he got involved in community activism in Illinois despite his elite Harvard background). So expectations will be higher among well meaning folk. Now it may be unfair to give up on the other politicians and not applying enough pressure. But I understand the context of such a statement.


by Pravin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:55:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

As mentioned... (none / 0)

...Obama does have detailed policies on inner city stuff and poverty.  He's not actually ignoring these issues: they're right on his website.

The reason we don't hear about them is because the media doesn't think much about wonkish issues like that.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:57:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

come on already. (none / 0)

nader injects discourse that is all too lacking in our political system. love him or hate him....too many otherwise reformers are up to their ears in compromise (pandering) to really change anything.

the dems and repubs are equally guilty of squashing any alternitive political opinions...and that is the3 problem....not nader!


by citizendave on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:31:46 AM EST

Here I thought... (none / 0)

...the problem with Nader was that he was of a completely static and uncompromising mindset that doesn't allow any nuance or disagreement.

I wouldn't take issue with Nader if we had instant runoff voting, but since his express goal is to take votes away from the Democratic nominee and extend the national nightmare of an overly powerful and irresponsible Republican executive, he gets no passes from me, especially when he's attacking the Democratic candidate using methods classically used by Republicans.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:55:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Here I thought... (2.00 / 1)

If there is runoff voting, then there wouldnt be any leverage of a third party candidate to express his views. he can be laughed off. Now the two major candidates are forced to account for fringe third parties in their strategy and weight the risk factor of catering tot hem instead of the crossover voters alone. Without that threat of a third party, the major parties wont heed some important fringe issues at all.

Otherwise, why even bother with third parties in elections? just make them illegal. Ross Perot improved the discourse on both the left and right when he ran.

People laughed at Nader when he said there was no real difference. Well, the DEmocrats wouldnt have started the war, but they sure as hell didnt make any difference in opposing Bush. Was Nader at fault for the Democrats being a minority in the congress and senate for so long?


by Pravin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:59:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Runoff voting (none / 0)

There's nothing stopping people from not selecting their closest ideological second choice in runoff voting.  I could choose Nader Or Nobody or Nader Or The Republican if I wanted to.

Runoff voting lets people make a statement without resulting in 2000-style disaster.

The party still needs to take the minor parties seriously because if the minor party gets enough votes, they start becoming not-so-much a minor party anymore and they risk greater divides as the minor parties co-opt certain issues.

I personally think that starting a war is a large enough difference between the parties for Nader's point to be disproven.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:21:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You are overthinking it. (2.00 / 2)

If there's one thing we can all agree on, it's that Ralph Nader doesn't know how to win an election. His list of "shoulds" for Obama is not the strategy pursued by a successful candidate. Nader is weird. For someone who claims to care about progress, he seems strangely committed to jumping from point A to Z without any intervening steps. As if the actual inching forward work of "progress" itself is dirty.


by Mobar on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 11:56:17 AM EST

Re: You are overthinking it. (2.00 / 1)

I actually disagree with nader on some issues. But give me a break. If Nader would try to work within the system, the blue dogs would just ignore him. This is the only leverage he has for his views to be heard. If he ran in the primary, he would be treated like Kucinich. Until people start paying respect to the fringe candidates in our own party primaries, we   have no right to bash third party candidates for the temerity to run.

Here is an easy solution. Make Nader a non factor by courting his voters. Or by communicating your ideas with enough conviction that it will win more voters from the mainstream making potential Nader voters unnecessary for a win. I am just amazed that people make fun of Nader, yet what he said has come true. Very few of the Democrats have stuck their neck out to make a difference in the last 8 years in the senate. People like Feingold are rare.


by Pravin on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:02:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are overthinking it. (none / 0)

couldn't have said it better


by citizendave on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:07:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My thoughts on Nader (2.00 / 1)

I've always thought that Nader should run for mayor or governor somewhere.  The reason we don't take him seriously is because he honestly has no proven ability to handle any elected office and no inclination to any compromise: Two traits that a President almost certainly needs.

If Nader had proven himself as an effective executive and either worked to get third party candidates elected at lower levels of government or worked within a party to reform it, then I would give him a lot more credit.  As it stands, he counters his own agenda by being a one-trick pony: we don't hear anything from him between presidential election years.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:11:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You are overthinking it. (none / 0)

Your response seems to be reading a lot into my comment. As for working within the system - this is the way I see the system: you have people on the outside agitating for change and holding a strict line, then you have people on the inside doing the work of compromise to move reality in the direction of what the agitators want to see. Nader is an agitator, and that's fine. But he's an agitator who seems to have zero appreciation for the fact that he needs those people on the inside to affect real change. He doesn't just resent compromise, he treats it as betrayal. Only his (losing) path is the moral path in his mind.

And speaking of winning strategies... courting Nader voters! lol. No.


by Mobar on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:28:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually... (none / 0)

...Obama did court Nader voters by adopting most of his reform platform.

That could be why Nader is so angry now: his best material got cribbed.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:02:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's a 70's thing (2.00 / 1)

Nader's no racist, he's just caught in the 70's mindset. In the 70'sit was OK to be racially aware. We had TV shows like Good Times, The Jeffersons, and All In The Family. We had movies like Blackula and Superfly. Pam Grier was a big star.

Through the lens of retrospective, it might seem as thought the whole world was blatantly racist. From today's perspective we were. But as a teenager I certainly cheered Superfly on. I knew a black man could righteously be a "bad mutha" (shut your mouth).

The stereotypes were more blatant, but also more balanced than today. Looking back I cringe at how many movies had the Crooked Racist White Men, whom the Afroed Black Hero outwitted and chased out of town. It was pervasive, and wholly different from how the same thing would be perceived today. I was always proud to be Black, and it would be a decade before I would feel it was a shameful thing.

To my recollection, racial awareness didn't seriously get ugly again until the Reagan era. Then the stereotypes crystallized into things like Welfare Queens and ABMs.

In some ways, Ralph probably sees himself as one of the good guys, criticizing a Black Man who's sold out to "The Man" (another 70s trope). He would be a good guy - 30 years ago.

Now he's just kind of sad, like a condemned landmark.


by Neef on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:30:28 PM EST

Thirty years ago (none / 0)

He's had thirty years to get out of the 70's.  Methinks he doesn't want to leave.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:00:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

True enough (none / 0)

He's got nowhen else to go, except now to face his current irrelevancy


by Neef on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:48:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

gah (none / 0)

"irrelevance"


by Neef on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:48:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So I finally figured out the problem with Nade (2.00 / 2)

I finally figured out the problem with liberals, which is that they are much, much too fast to label someone a racist.  Actually, to be honest, I figured that one out a while back.

If we step back from that precipice just a bit, it's easy to see that there's a legitimate argument to be made.  It's not racist to contend that Obama has had to bend over backwards a little bit more than a white politician would have to in order to avoid being pigeonholed as a black politician who only cares about "black issues."

When a white guy like John Edwards talks about poverty, or incarceration rates, or sentencing disparities, he doesn't run the risk of people thinking he has a racial axe to grind.  He doesn't run the risk of people thinking he only cares about a "black agenda."  So it stands to reason that he's a little freer to talk about those issues.  Someone like Barack Obama has to go the extra mile to make sure everyone understands he's running as the candidate of all America, not just Black America.

And I think it's permissible for Nader to argue, rightly or wrongly, that Obama has gone a little too far in the direction of insulating himself, to the point where he's not spending enough time focusing on issues that all liberals should rightly focus on.  I think it seriously misreads Nader to think that he's arguing that ONLY a black politician has an obligation to talk about these things.

I completely reject the false choice which holds that if you focus your campaign on the plight of the poor, you're not "campaigning as an American."  I actually can't believe I just read that argument.  Did John Edwards not campaign as an American?

White liberals down through the ages have made these themes a central part of their candidacies.  For Obama to do the same thing as all these white liberals would hardly "define his candidacy by his skin color" let alone establish that he's not "campaigning as an American first."

By the way, there is a legitimate argument to be made that as a person with roots in the Black American experience, as a politician who built much of his original base in the black community, Obama does have an extra obligation not to "forget where he came from."  I don't see Nader as making this argument, so I won't really get into it.  But it relates to the whole middleclassness discussion, it has roots in the famous debate between Booker T. Washington and W.E.B. DuBois.  It's not a racist argument.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:45:40 PM EST

Re: So I finally figured out the problem with Nade (2.00 / 1)

Someone like Barack Obama has to go the extra mile to make sure everyone understands he's running as the candidate of all America, not just Black America.

It's sad, and true, and I lay the blame squarely at the feet of the Right Wing Culture Police.


by Neef on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:56:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Right. (2.00 / 0)

So, we "liberals" have a problem calling things racist when race is directly and deliberately injected into our discourse?

Nader could have brought up all of the supposed problems he has with Obama's candidacy without ever once mentioning his race or discussing how a black politician should act.

There was no reason for him to discuss Obama wanting to "talk white" unless he wanted to draw attention to his blackness, which is a classic Republican move, and one that Democrats rightly deplore.

What purpose would Nader have in trying to peg Obama as an Uncle Tom?  Never forget that he's running against Obama, never forget that he wants Obama to bleed votes.  We all know from historical statistics that most blacks will never vote Republican because their policies are not compatable with the goals of most blacks... but Nader is liberal like most black politics.

Nader is playing the race card to gain votes.  We call this out when Republicans do it, why not when a liberal does it?


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 12:57:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Right. (none / 0)

Look, everyone on the planet knows that Barack Obama is black.  I do not buy into the phobia among some of his supporters which holds that every time someone refers to Obama's race, they're insidiously trying to remind racist voters that he's a black man, just like George Wallace would.

Referring to someone's race is not "racist."  Accusations of racism are just a power game, a way to dismiss an argument rather than refute it honestly.  This entire diary is written in a nasty, dismissive tone that does nothing to explore whether Nader might have an actual point, to address or refute his arguments on the merits.  It all boils down to "Ralph Nader is a racist, and thus should be ignored."

There's so little intellectual coherence to the argument that every reference to Obama's race is an effort to defeat him by reminding people that he's black, I honestly cannot believe this argument keeps getting made day in and day out.  It's just lame.  I think I missed your diary calling out John Kerry as a racist for bringing up Obama's race, by the way.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 01:53:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ironically (none / 0)

He has very little in common with most AA's, besides his skin color. Kenyans are not AA's, and his upbringing was that of a caucasian Kansan. Yet, he's become like the standard-bearer for Blackness.

There's a point in there somewhere.


by Neef on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:08:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Ironically (none / 0)

Well, I tend to apply the taxicab test.  But if I can ask something out of ignorance, how are Kenyans not AAs?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:15:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Because (none / 0)

Kenya's not a state? =)

They're Africans. The cultures are vastly different, politically and socially.


by Neef on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:19:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Because (none / 0)

You've successfully baffled me.  Every single AA, by definition, is descended from Africans who weren't American.  I don't understand what you're saying at all.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:28:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmm (none / 0)

it's a taxonomic point I've never considered, frankly. I'd like to give you a quick answer, but I actually need to think about it.

I will say there are large cultural differences, much like white anglo-saxon Americans are not Englishmen.


by Neef on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:36:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmm (none / 0)

But how is the fact that Obama's father was Kenyan something that distinguishes Obama from most AAs?  I just don't get what you meant by that.  


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:43:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmm (2.00 / 1)

Without tracking down sources to confirm my memory, I believe the distinction he's making is the one made between black americans descended from american slaves and black americans who are not descended from american slaves. I've seen the distinction noted in discussions of Colin Powell, whose parents were Jamaican immigrants, and expanded to note some anecdotal data that African Americans who are not the descendants of US slaves have an easier time fighting through racial barriers. (Not an easy time, just relatively easier).


by Mobar on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:59:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Exactly (none / 0)

although I am stating it clumsily.

To the extent Obama knew his father, he would have absorbed a radically different worldview from that of a "native" AA. To put it in perspective, I haven't had a true African ancestor for well over 120 years (as far back as I can trace). My father grew up in a vastly different environment than Obama's, as did my grandfather, and his grandfather, etc.

Culturally, it really does resemble the difference between someone whose father is British, and someone who's ancestors served in the Civil War.


by Neef on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 03:36:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's be clear about this: (none / 0)

Imagine if an employer said that black employees should be in charge of one thing, while white employees were in charge of another.

Imagine if a black employee was written up for performing 'white tasks' while neglecting his 'black tasks.'

That's the kind of racist bullcrap Nader is spewing here.  It's completely indefensible.


by Geekesque on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:14:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Let's be clear about this: (none / 0)

Okay, I don't see Nader as saying anything remotely like that, and I see the attempt to fit his argument into those categories as an attempt to dismiss him out of hand without confronting the merits.

Do you honestly believe Nader holds the belief that only black politicians should talk about poverty and race, that those subjects aren't the business of white politicians?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:17:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, it's even worse. (none / 0)

He puts black pols in a box.  If you're white, you're free to adopt whatever issues you want.  But, if you're black, you better be about urban poverty 24/7.

In his worldview, black politicians should be limited in their policy agenda by the color of their skin.


by Geekesque on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:29:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, it's even worse. (none / 0)

I don't agree that he is taking either of those extreme positions.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:34:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He's clearly stating what (none / 0)

black politicians 'should' be talking about.

Note that he, Ralph Nader, doesn't have to talk about poverty 24/7 because he has the privilege of not being black.

Maybe Nader will tell rabbis how to conduct their services next.


by Geekesque on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:43:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's clearly stating what (none / 0)

Not at all.  He very, very clearly says that these are issues that any Democratic presidential candidate should be talking about, but he's not hearing it from Obama.

The 24/7 thing is something you're just making up.

Doesn't the suggestion that a stark raving liberal like Ralph Nader would argue "there's no need for white politicians to talk about poverty or race issues" cause you even the slightest cognitive dissonance?  Do you not have any interest at all in taking a step back and saying "wait, that's totally implausible, let me try to understand what else he could have meant"?


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:53:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nader's quote: (none / 0)

"I mean, first of all, the number one thing that a black American politician aspiring to the presidency should be is to candidly describe the plight of the poor, especially in the inner cities and the rural areas,

So, he's applying a different standard to Obama based solely on the color of Barack Obama's skin.  There is no way that isn't racist.


by Geekesque on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:56:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Nader's quote: (none / 0)

I think it's very obvious from Nader's overall comments, unless you simply don't want to hear it, that he thinks that should be an obligation of every Democratic politician, not merely black politicians.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 03:05:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"black American politician" (2.00 / 1)

"talk white"

Takes some effort to read that kind of language out of his statements.


by Geekesque on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 03:06:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Right. (none / 0)

Look, everyone on the planet knows that Barack Obama is black.

So then, what is the point in calling attention to it?  Why is it even relevant, beyond the fact that it is apparent?


Don't let the Thugs define Sen. Obama: Fight the Smears
by DraftChickenHawks on Wed Jun 25, 2008 at 02:29:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nader's point (none / 0)

Nader's goal is clear: he wants Obama's voters.  His point is that he's better for black voters than Obama is.

The question is the method he's employing to get them, which is, instead of weighing more heavily on his themes of the corpratization of the Democratic party (which he has a valid, if weak, point on), he's highlighting Obama's race and talking about what black candidates should be focussing on.

rac·ism   Audio Help   ˈreɪsɪzəm  Pronunciation[rey-siz-uhm] -noun
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.  
  1. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.  
  2. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

I helpfully bolded the important definition for this discussion from old reliable Dictionary.com.  "Inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement" is exactly what Nader is implementing here.  He's saying that Obama should act in a certain way because he's black, and because he's not acting in that way, he's lacking somehow.

You think I'm being "nasty and dismissive?"  Nader reaps what he sows; I haven't seen him be generous or understanding of another person's viewpoint yet this entire season.  

I'm fine with people referencing Obama's race as long as they don't load the notation with expectations.  We can acknowledge his race as bringing certain experiences with it, but when we start saying that he should act in certain ways because of it, we're in dangerous territory.