What does Progressive mean to you as a Democrat?

I see folks throwing around the word Progressive Democrat. And when the issue of the hotly debated FISA comes up, I'm sure you have seen folks say 'this is a Progressive agenda'_ thats why we need Obama who sells himself as a progressive democrat to filibuster it.

I'd like to know what does being progressive to you mean as a democrat? you throw it around enough :D 

Hillary in this primary called herself a modern progressive... what is a modern progressive? could you progressives educate us?

And take a look at what it is defined as:


Progressivism is a term that refers to a broad school of international social and political philosophies. The term progressive was first widely used in late 19th century America, in reference to a general branch of political thought which arose as a response to the vast changes brought by industrialization, and as an alternative both to the traditional conservative response to social and economic issues and to the various more or less radical streams of socialism and anarchism which opposed them. Political parties such as the American Progressive Party organized at the start of the 20th century, and progressivism made great strides under American presidents Theodore Roosevelt, William H. Taft, Woodrow Wilson, and Franklin Delano Roosevelt.[1]

Progressivism historically advocates the advancement of workers' rights and social justice. The progressives were early proponents of anti-trust laws, regulation of large corporations and monopolies, as well as government-funded environmentalism and the creation of National Parks and Wildlife Refuges.



Display:


Me (2.00 / 2)

I'm a centrist. We tend to Tr'ed  a lot here:)


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 01:54:58 AM EST

Re: Me (2.00 / 4)

You also tend to talk about yourself a whole lot.


by GenaMeana on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 08:16:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Me (2.00 / 1)

Self-centrist would be a better description.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 09:02:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Me (2.00 / 1)

Cause I'm good enough and gosh darn I love me. :)


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 10:55:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Me (none / 0)

That plus he's really a repug.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 11:59:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Me (1.00 / 0)

TO quote YOU when one expect Obama to filibuster ( in a FISA diary)

Venician said : ""I 'm begining to think what alive is really concerned about is a black man having all the power that has usually been reserved for white men. White men from the south appear to be running scared these day of just what will a black man do with all that power, and will he use it to exact revenge against the slave states."


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:04:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Me (none / 0)

Wow you keep reposting that. Must have really hit a nerve. :)


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:28:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Me (2.00 / 1)

And this comment from YOU VENICIAN who said when one expects Obama to Oppose Fisa  w/ a filibuster:

Venician said "I'm begining to think what alive is really concerned about is a black man having all the power that has usually been reserved for white men. White men from the south appear to be running scared these day of just what will a black man do with all that power, and will he use it to exact revenge against the slave states."


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 01:02:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (2.00 / 2)

I was asked this question in another diary. Here's what I replied.

Progressivism has a long and honorable history in this country. In recent years, it has become a substitute for 'liberalism' since the conservative movement ran a campaign to turn 'liberal' into a dirty word. People took to calling themselves progressives to avoid the liberal tag. Unfortunately, a lot of those people didn't realize just how strong the progressive movement has been in this country. Progressivism and liberalism are not the same thing, although they do agree on many policy issues.

Progressives come in all shapes and colors. One of the greatest progressives was Teddy Roosevelt. Many of the policy proposals that Franklin Roosevelt put in place came from Teddy when he was in office.

Progressives are primarily for social justice, regulating business to control the ill effects of greed, direct democracy (which is incorporated in the name of this site), limited international intervention, and conservation (this could be a legacy of Teddy R's), and more efficient, trustworthy government.

Progressives believe that society can be made more even-handed. They also believe that the world can become a better place through gradual improvements. This is where they begin to diverge from conservatives who believe in the status quo. Some progressives also believe in the basic goodness of humans. This is not necessarily a belief shared by liberals or conservatives who, although they differ on how to deal with human nature, both assume humans need to be coerced.

That is a brief overview of what I consider the core beliefs of the progressive movement. You may or may not agree with some or none of them.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:06:59 AM EST

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (1.00 / 0)

Some progressives also believe in the basic goodness of humans

And

This is not necessarily a belief shared by liberals or conservatives who, although they differ on how to deal with human nature, both assume humans need to be coerced

how does that work or relate to "govt needs to fund social programs" attitude/agenda? i.e if you beleive in the basic goodness of humans , then it sounds like one would then be more for less govt in our lifes.  Which in turn would be a contridiction of all things progressive( ploicy/agenda) that I read about.


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:15:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (none / 0)

So the social safety net presupposes a lack of inherent goodness in people?


by Can I Haz Moar Snark on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:23:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (1.00 / 0)

maybe not.

But when I read 'beleive in the basic goodness as people' I see it as a tenet of progressivism ( not just some , you know " nice" afterthought. )...  i.e Trust and power to the people to execute good choices.


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:31:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Progressivism (2.00 / 1)

I consider myself a progressive.  I like to think of "progressive" as a friendlier name for Social Democracy (European Style).  It's basically a way for me to call myself quasi-socialist without scaring off centrists.

I believe people try to be good but almost always fail.  I believe people are almost always irrational, so big government helps take care of their uncared for or uninformed needs as well as protecting people from each other.  It's the basis of social safety nets as well as both private and public insurance.  Some people call this view "elitist," so I'm happy to take that description.  

I'm also an ardent atheist, though most progressives aren't.  My atheism causes me to base decisions on empathy and Kant's Categorical Imperative.  I can be pretty irrational most of the time too, though, so I try not to criticize people (politician or non-) for one mistake.  Two (like ditching the wife who waited years for you but had a disfiguring car accident AND calling the new wife a "cunt") is a pattern.


by ProgressiveDL on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 08:11:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (2.00 / 1)

Because there are exceptions and the way our society and economic system is currently set up it tends to favor those exceptions.

The social safety nets are in existence to minimize the impacts of those exceptions. Also part of this people are basically good thing is the idea that we're willing to take care of each other. Finally in general progressives want less government in our lives as individuals however that does not mean that we want less government in our institutions and corporations. We recognize that government is (or at least should be) and instrument of our collective wills and as such should serve our colective needs.

It's not a question of small government or big government it's a matter of right sized government.

I'd also say that a primary difference between traditional liberalism and modern progresivism is that progressives favor distributed power structures while traditional liberals prefer centralized power structures.

That's why many progressives prefered Obama over Clinton. If Republicans represent a strict father model of government then traditional liberals like Clinton represent big mamma government.

Progressives tend to think that the government shouldn't be in the parrenting business and should spend most of its energies controlling the excesses of our non-human citizens (read corporations).

That's my take at least.


by Skex on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 09:27:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (2.00 / 1)

A progressive is a person with a socialist bent and has the guts to stand up for what he/she believes in and puts ideals ahead of power.


If you want Unity, nominate a Democrat
by rankles on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:17:12 AM EST

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (2.00 / 1)

IN other words, anyone who says 'you are with us or against us' is NOT, by definition, a progressive.

Anyone who suggests playing the rethug game for raw political power is NOT, by definition, a progressive.

Anyone who ostracizes those with different points of view is NOT, by definition, a progressive.

'Nuf said.


If you want Unity, nominate a Democrat
by rankles on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:18:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (none / 0)

You are more principled than I.  You sound a lot like a Kucinich voter.  Oh wait, you're just bitter.


by Can I Haz Moar Snark on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:25:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (none / 0)

S'alllllll about Obama and Clinton, isn't it?


John McCain wants to stay in Iraq.
by ihaveseenenough on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:34:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (1.00 / 0)

SO i'm trying to figure out how Obama got the " progressive tag". Was it because of the ' social' programs of providing national healthcare or energy  policy stand in his agenda?

I personally always thought he was a centrist and I.


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:24:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (1.00 / 0)

er meant 'centrist LIKE, I'


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:25:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (2.00 / 1)

"A centrist like ME" is what you meant.


by skohayes on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 06:47:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (2.00 / 1)

Uh,no, a centrist like I.

IN order to know whether or not to use "I" or "ME", simply finish the implied ending.

"He is a centrist like I am."

HE IS
I AM

ALthough 'like me' isnt necessarily wrong, neither is 'Like I'.

Therefore, you were wrong for correcting the poster.


If you want Unity, nominate a Democrat
by rankles on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 08:09:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

just a euphemism for "liberal" (2.00 / 2)

that doesn't sound as bad. We can thank Mike dukakis for that.


by Lakrosse on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:19:13 AM EST

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (2.00 / 1)

My honest opinion? It's a word people use because conservative culture warriors somehow managed to make "liberal" a swear word. Pure bait-and-switch.


The problem with political jokes is that they often get elected to office.
by Roy G Biv on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:30:29 AM EST

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (1.00 / 0)

well I guess they will soon need to find a new word for " neo -con"


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:33:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (none / 0)

I already have one for them, but it would definitely be one of the late Carlin's 7 (or more) dirty words.


by ProgressiveDL on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 01:55:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I remember in college (2.00 / 1)

I was asked by MPIRG to identify my ideological tendencies and I said "liberal".  The person running the survey informed me I only had 3 choices "conservative", "centrist" or "progressive".  I kept saying "liberal" and kept getting corrected for at least a minute. At that point any intellectual honest person would have shredded my in person survey because my next response wouldn't mean anything.  So as far as I'm concerned this is my single biggest linguistic pet peeve.

I think that if this is your platform you can call yourself some flavor of progressive:

You favor the silver standard.
You want to show the mighty big railroad interests who's boss.
You want to abolish child labor in the U.S.
You favor CREATING some sort of National Park System to preserve the vast amounts of open land.
You read Upton Sinclair's The Jungle and you want to create an agency that actually monitors claughterhouses (OK this actually applies).
You favor temperance.
You favor extending the franchise to women.
You favor direct election of Senators.
You think the most dangerous families in American Life are Morgan, Chase, Rockefeller and Vanderbilt.
You are voting for Bob LaFollette in the next presidential cycle.

For me "progressive" has very specific historical connotations everyone else should just reclaim the word "liberal".  If not you are going to need a word after "progressive".


Visiting the hopium dens proudly since 2007.
by AZphilosopher on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 05:38:58 AM EST

Re: I remember in college (none / 0)

Don't forget referenda and recalls.

But seriously, if you think political parties or viewpoints can't change, you must think Republicans are still northeastern elites.


by ProgressiveDL on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 08:14:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I remember in college (none / 0)

No, that's not my point. "Progressive" to me is a brand name.  

My other point (and Steven Pinker makes this point well) is that in naming some groups we have a PC and a non-PC way of referring to them.  However, once the term gets all of the connotations of the original, a third term is needed.  So I think people should say "I'm liberal" as opposed to "I'm progressive".  If not, there will be another euphemism coming down the pike in 10-15 years.


Visiting the hopium dens proudly since 2007.
by AZphilosopher on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 01:01:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Plus.... (none / 0)

...have you seen anyone belonging to the "Progressive Party" around?


Visiting the hopium dens proudly since 2007.
by AZphilosopher on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 01:03:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Plus.... (none / 0)

Have you seen anyone belonging to the "Liberal Party"?

Words are what you make of them.  To me, "Progressive" is a euphemism for Social Democrat.  It sounds like the original Progressive Party to Repubs and Independents, but other liberals know it means far left.  If I said "far left," it would be blasted by non-liberals.  And being liberal and progressive are not mutually exclusive.

To me, "liberal" means somewhere left of center.  But when Hillary, Rendell, Romney (he was called it in MA anyway) and others count as "liberal," I need a word to be farther left than that.  I'm not quite as far as socialism or communism, so that doesn't work.  I'm not a "populist."  I'm fine with the label "elitist," but most other progressives don't want that label.  Can you come up with another word that works better than progressive?  


by ProgressiveDL on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 01:54:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What does "progressive" mean to whites? (none / 0)

"Progressive" is the ability to write an entire diary and have 15 comments without ever mentioning that "progressivism" is politically unviable in the United States unless it embraces the political aspirations of people whose skin is not white.  

"Progressive" is supposing that it is possible in the United States to win elections without ever mentioning minorities and their political interests in your definition of "progressive."


by Manic Lawyer on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 06:20:43 AM EST

Re: (1.00 / 0)

And yet somehow not a word so far about woman suffrage-- a bed rock tenet of the movement too. Well I guess they can go to the back of the line .... and be silent for now.


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 10:52:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (none / 0)

How subtle of you to try and start another argument about sexism. But since it is your job to do just that, I guess I shouldn't be so surprised.


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:30:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 1)

And this comment from YOU VENICIAN who said when one expects Obama to Oppose Fisa  w/ a filibuster:

Venician said "I'm begining to think what alive is really concerned about is a black man having all the power that has usually been reserved for white men. White men from the south appear to be running scared these day of just what will a black man do with all that power, and will he use it to exact revenge against the slave states."


Rise / Repeat / But for god's sake don't spin!
by aliveandkickin on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 01:02:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: (2.00 / 1)

Venecian, your sexist slip is showing.


If you want Unity, nominate a Democrat
by rankles on Tue Jun 24, 2008 at 08:11:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (none / 0)

A brief discussion about the meaning of progressivism, like the one in this diary, can only cover the surface of the issue. Progressives, like all other political labels, covers a broad swath of beliefs.

There are many different kinds of conservatives - neo-conservatives, social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, etc... There are many kinds of progressives - liberal-progressives, centrist-progressives, and conservative-progressives. Each one leans towards one part of the political spectrum while still sharing some or many of the beliefs common to progressivism.

Some people might be for a more militaristic foreign policy, yet believe in govt regulation of business and favor a single-payer health plan. Others might be against all military intervention and yet favor school vouchers and privatization of certain aspects of govt. Trying to cram all progressives into one tiny box is as stupid as trying to paint all conservatives as homophobic.

In a country of 300,000,000 people, it is really dumb to use the few labels we have to define people. Those 300,000,000 people have 300,000,000 different opinions on the issues. It is nearly impossible to find 2 people that agree on every single issue. They might agree in principle, but disagree in how to handle the actual implementation.

Attempting to narrowly define a group is an old tactic. The idea is to group people under one definition and then find one part of that definition that you can ridicule. It also makes it a lot easier to push the 'with us or against us' meme.

As a simple example, many atheists are humanists. They actually share many of the same beliefs about helping other people that many Christians believe. Yet, atheists and Christians are thought to be totally at odds with each other. With us or against us. It's all rather silly, really.


"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." Samuel Johnson
by MS01 Indie on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:22:31 PM EST

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (none / 0)

"As a simple example, many atheists are humanists. They actually share many of the same beliefs about helping other people that many Christians believe. Yet, atheists and Christians are thought to be totally at odds with each other. With us or against us. It's all rather silly, really."

Poignant example.  I'm an atheist who tries my hardest to be empathetic and good to other people (doesn't always work in the anonymity of online blogs, unfortunately!).  But my justification is different (Kant's Categorical Imperative and pragmatic sacrifice) than religious people's.  My view allows me to ignore the religious rules I don't agree with (restrictions on birth control, masturbation, impure thoughts, swearing, dietary restrictions) while coincidentally following the rules that make sense to me (selflessness, charity, pacifism).

Also, I don't believe in a higher power, obviously.  But the rules I try to follow (and fail most of the time, just like religious followers), are not so incompatible with those of Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, or Islam.  

[In many ways, I should be a Buddhist, but I don't believe in reincarnation]


by ProgressiveDL on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:01:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What does Progressive mean to you as a Democr (none / 0)

L-I-B-E-R-A-L.
And that is NOT a pejorative. Most liberals have become afraid to use that word, so, a la Mario Cuomo, they latched on to the old late 19th century label "progressive" as an alternative.
by M1513 on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 12:51:01 PM EST

Liberal (none / 0)

I agree, but I also think the word "liberal" only means vaguely left of center.  Progressive works as a term that means farther left than liberal, but not as far as communist/socialist.


by ProgressiveDL on Mon Jun 23, 2008 at 02:03:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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