Mapping the General Election

I really like Marc Ambinder. I'm at his site several times a day. I think his reporting is top-notch, and his insight into elections is among the best in the business. But the electoral map he posted today I'm just not sure about.

Ambinder gives both Barack Obama and John McCain 159 electoral votes in their base. I'm not sure if this is intentionally balanced out or just coincidence. But if McCain believes that all of those EVs are out of play, he is sorely mistaken.

Among that group of safe states for McCain are (in alphabetical order) Alaska, Arizona, Georgia, Kansas, Nebraska and North Dakota, none of which are off the table at this juncture. They just aren't. They may not be tossups yet, but they aren't safe. Of these six, Obama is currently advertising in three -- Alaska, Georgia and North Dakota -- and I would not be surprised if Nebraska sees some advertising dollars before election day (both because one or two of the states congressional districts, and thus electoral votes, are in play, and because the Omaha media market bleeds into Iowa). Recent polling out of Georgia, Alaska, and even Kansas show tight races, and the last two polls (.pdf) out of McCain's home state of Arizona show the presumptive GOP nominee at or below 50 percent when pitted against Obama. Safe states these are not.

How about Florida, which Ambinder ranks as a "tilt" McCain state. I had been under the general assumption that Florida wasn't going to be part of the first 270 for any Democratic nominee. I still think there are as many as a half dozen other states Bush carried in 2004 that are more likely to go blue in 2008 than Florida. That said, even before McCain went and angered voters in the state by flipflopping his position on offshore drilling, his numbers were trending downward in the state while Obama's were trending upwards, according to Pollster.com, whose trend estimate in the state gives McCain a slim 45.1 percent to 42.8 percent lead over Obama.

Or take Pennsylvania, which Ambinder deems a "tossup". It's tough to come up with a hard metric, outside of history, that shows that neither candidate has a real advantage in the state. Pollster.com finds Obama moving up in the state and McCain moving down, with Obama holding a substantial 48.7 percent to 40.1 lead. If that's not quite a tilt, then I'm not sure what is.

But beyond the specifics of the states, I think what this listing misses is the big picture; it's too much trees, not enough forest. The Obama effort is going to have significantly more money than the McCain effort -- perhaps on an order of magnitude of 2, 3 or even more times when all campaigns, committees and organizations are taken into account. Because of this, Obama will be able to put McCain on the defensive in a great number of states, making it more difficult for McCain to win in blue states or even hold onto the Bush coalition of 2004. Ben Smith mentions Texas as one such state -- Obama putting staff in the state, plus potentially putting in ads, would force McCain into a tough decision: "Ignore Texas on the overwhelming probability that it stays red; or risk that Obama steals on".

On top of the money disparities, the GOP's brand is in tatters in a way that no party's brand has been in tatters in my lifetime (and perhaps even in the lifetime of most reading this site). The difference in the public's rating of the two parties is remarkable and basically unprecedented (at least in recent memory) and serves as a real drag on McCain.

Finally, and last but not least, the fact that George W. Bush is the most unpopular President in the history of polling remains a real problem for McCain, one that he has not yet even begun to seriously address (and putting out a comment to the press that McCain was going to be at least 30 miles away from Bush while in Iowa isn't going to cut it). Simply put, the American people are increasingly coming to realize that a McCain presidency would represent as close to a third Bush term as it comes -- and that's just not what they're looking for right now.

So given this set of circumstances, both within the states and nation wide, it's hard for me to see it being the case that the base states for McCain and Obama provide the same number of electoral votes, or that McCain's base when including "tilt" states provides him with 8 more electoral votes than Obama's when "tilt" states are included from him. Maybe my glasses are too rosily colored, but I'm just having real difficulty seeing the factual basis for the assumption that McCain is in better shape right now relative to the electoral college than is Obama.



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Re: Mapping the General Election (none / 0)

I like Ambinder too, in a lot of ways, but his coverage of late has really tilted pro-McCain.

He also needs to stop trying to report on legal issues.  He embarrassed himself trying to discuss the Court's recent Habeas decision.  


by HSTruman on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 05:27:04 PM EST

Re: Mapping the General Election (none / 0)

but his coverage of late has really tilted pro-McCain.

I haven't seen this, and I'm not really sure what it means, either.  I mean, do you think he wants McCain to win or something? He seems to call it like he sees it.  He's not involved with the Obama campaign, at least, so that means I trust his analysis a little bit more than Singer's.  (No hate; just appreciate independent analysis.)

How do you think he's tilting pro-McCain?


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 05:40:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

PA a tossup? (none / 0)

Are you serious?  PA hasn't had a McCain-leading poll since April, which was Strategic Vision that I do not trust (check their history).  Poblano  (in my opinion, the best poll analyst freely availabe) has PA at +10 for Obama.  Where oh where does "toss-up" come out of this, except wishful thinking?


by lilnev on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 07:06:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He's a political analyst (none / 0)

That's what they do.  They make educated guesses.  Polls aren't everything.

I mean, just because he says it doesn't make it true.  But just because it doesn't favor Obama doesn't make it false.  He calls McCain out on all kinds of shit.  I personally think he's pro-Obama and tries to correct his bias in various ways.  Did you read him during the primaries?  I found him pretty reliable.

He's closer, in my mind, to objectivity than most voices in the blogosphere.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 07:32:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mapping the General Election (none / 0)

I haven't seen this mentioned by any of the mainstream media, maybe I've missed it, and I've already written a diary today, but I wanted to mention a new Newsweek poll showing Obama up by 15, 51-36.
Why to I get the feeling that if the poll showed McCain up, it would be breaking news and have non-stop coverage. Maybe it'll be covered by MSNBC at 6.

"...Obama is running much stronger at this point in the race than his two most recent Democratic predecessors, Sen. John Kerry and Vice President Al Gore, who both failed in their bids to win the White House. In a July 2004 NEWSWEEK Poll, Kerry led Bush by only 6 points (51 percent to 45 percent). In June 2000, Gore was in a dead heat with Bush (45 percent to 45 percent)--which is essentially where he ended up when that razor-thin election was finally decided.

Most other national polls have shown Obama with a 4 to 5 point lead over McCain so far. Random statistical error can explain some of the difference in poll results. The NEWSWEEK survey of 1,010 adults nationwide on June 18 and 19, 2008, has a margin of error of 4 points. But the latest evidence of his gaining ground goes well beyond that margin."

http://www.newsweek.com/id/142465?from=r ss


by oden on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 05:28:17 PM EST

Re: Mapping the General Election (none / 0)

If Marc, who's generally excellent, wants to lower expectations for us, I'm fine with that.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 05:43:48 PM EST

Lowering Expectations = Bad (2.00 / 1)

I would agree that such euphoric polls raise expectations, but I disagree that raisisng expectations is something (now) to be avoided.

This is no longer the primary season. The Presidency is winner take all, and there is no follow-up contest to test whether expectations were met.

It doesn't matter if the GE is closer or further apart than anticipated: the winner wins and the loser loses.

Moreover, an aura of inevitability can work well in the GE campaign to deny the opponent traction. People like a winner.

Hillary's mistake was using this strategy in the primary. Whether she thought there would be no follow-up contests or it was just poor strategy, by creating the aura of inevitability and then having it shattered, she severely hurt herself.


I attended PUMACon '08!!!
by iohs2008 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 05:54:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lowering Expectations = Bad (none / 0)

very interesting observations


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 06:23:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ambinder (none / 0)

I respect his analysis a lot--it's going to be a tight election.

Actually Charlie Cook doesn't that much of Obama's chances, giving McCain a real edge
in the Electoral College.  Note that his map has Ohio as a tossup, but then down below, there's
a ratings change for Ohio to Lean Republican.

This is going to be pretty tight the rest of the way, Newsweek notwithstanding.


by esconded on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 09:54:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mapping the General Election (none / 0)

I've been way of over-optimistic looks at the map this far out and still am.  I see the edges of probability running from Obama at 230 EV to Obama at 380 EV.  A VERY wide range.  

Right now everybody in the Obama echosphere is giddy with polling taking place in the context of no effective McCain campaign in response.  

But I'm beginning to wonder, what if there is no effective McCain campaign?  He's going to be out-gunned in money, he doesn't appear to be have the stamina for a tough campaign schedule.  And underlying fundamentals, as noted, include the GOP brand being trashed and McCain's ties to Bush.

If the numbers are similar around Labor Day, then I'll start to believe.


by InigoMontoya on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 06:02:25 PM EST

Re: Mapping the General Election (none / 0)

make that "wary" of over-optimistic looks.


by InigoMontoya on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 06:02:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree with the post (none / 0)

Ambinder, let's be honest, has a tendency to believe Republican spin.  And, like most of the press, if he hasn't gotten press releases from the campaign he doesn't seem to know what is going on.
The reality is that every bit of evidence shows PA leaning to Obama.

He'll probably catch up in two to three weeks.


New Jersey politics and news
by John DE on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 06:08:29 PM EST

Re: I agree with the post (none / 0)

Ambinder's a good guy, though, and seems level-headed.  Doesn't mean he's right here, but I'm certainly curious to hear his rationale.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 06:19:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

oh, I like him too (none / 0)

I read his blog.


New Jersey politics and news
by John DE on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 07:01:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mapping the General Election (none / 0)

Well, he seems to have MN correct...so he is still credible in my eyes.

This seems to be shaping up like the '96 election for general mood.  Clinton was going to be reelected and Dole was just "along for the ride".  

It looks, right now, like Obama is going to treat this correctly, like he is in a dead heat with McCain no matter what the polls say.  So long as Obama does not let it go to his head, and treats the election seriously to the end, it is in the bag.  But this is like a boxing match.  We are now in round 3 out of 9.  McCain is getting the snot kicked out of him, but he may have the strength for a hidden hay-maker if Obama gets too cocky late in the 9th round.

But I have faith that Obama won't screw this up.


by Hammer1001 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 06:24:47 PM EST

Contrived (none / 0)

McCain's base states -- 159 electoral votes.
Obama's base states -- 159 electoral votes.

Very contrived.... especially by putting the PacNW in tilt.  Oregon and Washington are more than tilt D.  PA is not a tossup and neither is IA.  CO has to be at least tilt D.  


McCain = Iraq. John McCain = overturn Roe.
by PantsB on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 06:32:02 PM EST

Re: Mapping the General Election (none / 0)

Ambinder has Arkansas a McClain base. Nothing could be farther from the truth. In the 2006 election cycle AR filled all of the state constitutional offices with Democrats. Democrats picked up seats in the State House and Senate in which they already had large majorities.

We have been trending Democratic for a while now, and I expect AR to be a battleground state unless this happens: Hillary campaigns for Obama in AR, which flips AR to his column, or Hillary is the VP and AR goes overwhelmingly for the Democratic ticket.


by GLP72315 on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 06:46:44 PM EST

What the hell did the Republicans think (none / 0)

was going to happen after 8 years of calling anyone who didn't agree with them unpatriotic or worse, terrorist sympathizers?  They drained the Treasury, got a bunch of our friends and family killed, trashed the economy, ignored the laws, made us a laughingstock or worse around the world, all the while telling us we were the bad guys.

How stupid can they be to think the entire country isn't going to come out and vote to get rid of them?


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 08:03:25 PM EST

Re: What the hell did the Republicans think (none / 0)


Same thing was true in 2004.  They still got 51% (52% if you count in the 1% vote for that right wing third party candidate).

About 8% of the 2004 electorate is now in the cemetaries.  That's where your real change comes from.


by killjoy on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 10:21:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In 2004 there were alot more people (none / 0)

still hiding under the bed and the 'don't change Presidents in the middle of a war' meme had some traction.  This year not so much.


That One is the Right One for 2008.
by GFORD on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 05:05:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mapping the General Election (none / 0)


Well, you can sort of see where Armbinder's coming from.  He sees that a lot of Obama support is reluctant and Lesser Evil based.  Obama is shedding liberal positions and liberals are losing enthusiasm.

I haven't seen a single Obama-McCain poll in which Obama actually exceeds where the ideological split is, which is the Kerry percentage plus 4% (due to four years of 1% per year liberal/Democratic shift).


by killjoy on Fri Jun 20, 2008 at 09:26:31 PM EST

Basic math is wrong (none / 0)

Um, you'd think Ambinder would have somebody who could use a calculator and check the math?  His base state numbers actually add up to 157 for Obama and 160 for McCain.


by bottl4 on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 12:36:37 AM EST

Re: Mapping the General Election (none / 0)

McCain is getting the snot kicked out of him. but he may have the strength for a hidden hay-maker if Obama gets too cocky late in the 9th round.


Flashlights rc heli videogame
by blueskyadf on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 02:37:33 AM EST

Ambinder can't count (none / 0)

Even if we buy his assessment of the states (which I don't), it's 160-157, not 159-159.

I noticed something was wrong when his EVs totaled to 539: M base 159, M lean 61, tossup 107, O lean 53, O base 159.

Those states are actually 160-61-107-53-157.

Anyway, except for MO, VA, and OH, all of Ambinder's tossups are Dem leaners.  WA has evolved into a Dem base state.  NJ is either Dem base, or a really really heavy Dem leaner.

AK and ND are McCain leaners, and it wouldn't surprise me if the next WV poll showed it to be less than safe, but let's leave WV and GA where they are until each has another poll.

So I'd score it at 154-67-44-90-183, from McCain base through tossups to Obama base.


by RT on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 05:43:26 AM EST


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