Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Sexism.

by canadian gal, Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:04:27 PM EST

As the primaries draw to a close a curious change in party line has occurred.  On yesterday's "This Week with George Stephanopoulos ," Democratic National Committee Chair Dr. Howard Dean took the mainstream media to task for some sexist news coverage of Sen. Hillary Clinton 's presidential ambitions. His response was to a question from Stephanopoulos about a recent op-ed by Geraldine Ferraro on the topic of sexism and race in the 2008 campaign

DEAN: There has been an enormous amount of sexism in this campaign on the part of the media, including the mainstream media. We'll leave present company excepted, because I think that's true. But there have been major networks that have featured numerous outrageous comments that if the words were reversed and they were about race, the people would have been fired.

So that's a big issue. And there are a lot of women in this country who -- there's two issues here. One is one candidate is ahead and one is not. That happens all the time in primaries, and you get over that. What you don't get over is deep wounds that have been inflicted on somebody because they happen to be a woman running for president of the United States.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Does Barack Obama get over it by choosing Sen. Clinton as a running mate?

DEAN: We don't know. But I do believe that the issue of sexism in this country has to be addressed.

His words are a welcome sight to many who feel that the silence and tacit approval of the DNC in this primary with regard to sexism.  However the timing of these comments is curious.  Why would Dean wait until two day before the last primaries to call-out the rampant sexism we have witnessed over the past months?




Tags: clinton, media, bias, sexism (all tags)

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Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Se (none / 0)

Cause hillary is about to drop out and he wants to make sure she feels at home in the party still


by Cheebs on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:05:35 PM EST

Should read: Because he has already been a (2.00 / 5)

successful part of a conspiracy to purge the Clintons and other "old guard" from the Democratic Party, in order to consolidate and expand the power of the "new guard", and now that the new guard is in control of the party to the detriment of the old guard, they want the old guard to help them get elected to run the country.


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:09:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Should read: Because he has already been a (1.80 / 5)

But they've so alienated the "old guard", as you say, that the Dems will lose this November.


by trixta on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:13:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Should read: Because he has already been a (none / 0)

Bull.  The old guard has little choice but to join up, or they will be blamed for the lost by the rest of us.  And they know it...


by Lawyerish on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:26:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Should read: Because he has already been a (2.00 / 3)

Oh and  your blame is what will cause to unify with you? Delusional.

Vote for Obama or lose male approval! That won't fly.

How about this: Take responsibility for your own failures and stop blaming those whom you insult.


by redwagon on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:42:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Should read: Because he has already been a (2.00 / 1)

Who is insulting who exactly?

This is the way of nature.  The old guard dies out, the new leadership takes over.  It's what the Clintons did to the Kennedy wing of the party in the 90's, now that they are old and ossified, it is being done to them.

And it's their own fault.  If they had ran a better campaign, Clinton likely would have won.  They didn't, so they deserve to lose.  Hear me?  DESERVE to lose.  And their supporters, which I suppose include you, deserve to be told to suck it up and get on board and stop this childish puling!


by Lawyerish on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:14:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Should read: Because he has already been a (2.00 / 1)

And I should pay you money for saying that? This is the part I don't get.


by redwagon on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:25:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

But if they've left the party (2.00 / 1)

and become independents, why do they care what the Democratic party says about them?

Why would you think that 'the fierce cursing' of members of the Democratic party would bother them at all, especially to the point of voting explicitly to avoid it?

This sort of thinking is a 'have your cake and eat it too' exercise.  On one hand, old people, particularly older women who are or have been  Hillary supporters, have been told that they are not important to the party and made to feel they should leave.  

On the other hand, they are supposed to care  if the party blames losing the general election on them.

I may vote for Obama in the GE, but since I'm not driving this bus, I'm sure not accepting any blame for the coming crash.


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:29:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Are you saying Hillary is "Old" (none / 0)

that's sexist.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:56:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Should read: Because he has already been a (none / 0)

"successful part of a conspiracy to purge the Clintons"

uhhhh....


by the mollusk on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:20:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Which part do you disagree with, and why? (2.00 / 2)

When answering, give special consideration to the comments and actions of Howard Dean and Donna Brazile.  


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:27:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Which part do you disagree with, and why? (2.00 / 1)

look, if you're going to pretend that the whole Democratic Party establishment hatched a "conspiracy" against Hillary Clinton, I'd say you're the one who needs to back up your statements.  And, sorry, telling superdelegates to hurry up with their decision is not tantamount to kicking someone out of the party.


by the mollusk on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:47:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Should read: Because he has already been a (2.00 / 2)

Except the "new guard" is the old guard.

Kennedy, Daschle, Kerry and Dodd?

They were left behind by the Clintons and they want back in. It's their last grasp at power.


by bellarose on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:25:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Why would she want to be part of a party... (2.00 / 1)

that considers her a monster who dreams of assassination? She should be embarrassed to consider herself a democrat these days.


It's an election, not an auction.
by cosbo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:09:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

who the HELL thinks that? (none / 0)

no Democrat. Certainly no one who has met her.

I wouldn't say the same thing about her backers (NOT supporters. big difference).

Then again, a good deal of them are Republican.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:18:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

come on now... (none / 0)

people here still claim this....  and they call themselves democrats.  or what about keitho?


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:35:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why would she want to be part of a party... (2.00 / 1)

Because of her ill-treatment and utter rejection by the Dem Party, HRC should take her very significant coalition and start a new centrist party. Why not? the "new guard" wants to strip HRC and Bill of any power they might have in the Democratic Party.    

It's time we had a party that can actually win elections.  Indeed, it's time to get rid of loser McGovern/Kerry candidates such as Obama and the destructive politics of purity they foment.


by trixta on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:25:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why would she want to be part of a party... (2.00 / 3)

HRC should take her very significant coalition and start a new centrist party.

You mean the DLC?


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:35:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

now don't go feelin sorry for yourself (none / 0)

80% of this site went on and on about Obama givin' Hills the finger.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:02:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dean can go Cheney Himself! (none / 0)


by CoyoteCreek on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:18:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Se (2.00 / 3)

I think it was his job to stay out of the race as much as possible.  That is what he did.  Plus, he was responding to a direct question placed to him by George Stephanopolous regarding an op-ed piece by Geraldine Ferraro.

I wouldn't read too much into it.


by the mollusk on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:07:56 PM EST

Was that THIS Howard Dean? (none / 0)

April 17, 2008 09:18 PM  
An increasingly firm Howard Dean told CNN again Thursday that he needs superdelegates to say who they're for - and "I need them to say who they're for starting now."

"We cannot give up two or three months of active campaigning and healing time," the Democratic National Committee Chairman told CNN's Wolf Blitzer. "We've got to know who our nominee is."

Lets see... why would it be important for Howard Dean to force superdelegates to make a decision on April 17, 2008?  Is the Convention in April, 2008?  Were all the primaries over?


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:13:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Was that THIS Howard Dean? (2.00 / 1)

yeah, but he didn't, as far as I remember, engage in anything such as the race questions surrounding Obama or the sexism questions surrounding Clinton.  He said he wanted people to start making up their minds.  That's well within his purview.  What I think he can't do is defend one or another candidate against attacks in the primaries.  As far as I know, that's what he did.


by the mollusk on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:19:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You're missing the point. Dean urged SD's to pick (2.00 / 1)

a candidate at the very same time that the MSM was calling the Clintons bumbling racist fools, and this was long before the primaries were over.

He didn't address the sexism.  He didn't defend Hillary.  Instead, he asked SD's to pick someone (presumably Obama) WHILE Clinton was being attacked, i.e. WHILE voter resentment against the Clintons was at its highest.  

He was not only silent - he was using the attacks on Hillary as a basis to call on SDs to vote for Obama.


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:31:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're missing the point. Dean urged SD's to (2.00 / 3)

That's an interesting re-telling of history.  According to about a half a dozen diaries written daily around here, the MSM was in the tank for Obama from the beginning, so anything Dean said other than "Elect Hillary" could be interpreted as supporting Obama.  You're just seeing what you want to see to justify your own disappointment at seeing Hillary most likely losing this primary.

It's also amazing how Obama can be simultaneously the candidate of inexperienced "kewl boyz" idiots and the establishment.  Either Obama supporters are a bunch of stupid, young bullies or they are long-time experienced Democratic operatives.  It's hard to be both.


by the mollusk on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:55:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Everyone sees what they want to see, including you (none / 0)

Moreover, as to your point regarding inexperience vs. long time Democratic operatives, you're mixing up apples and oranges.

I believe the claim is that Obama supporters in the general public are typically young males, while Obama operatives (such as I assume Howard Dean and Donna Brazile) are long-time experienced Democratic operatives.  

Does that help?


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:09:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Everyone sees what they want to see, including (none / 0)

Howard Dean is a long-time experienced Democratic operatives?  

And, sorry, the "we both do it" argument isn't going to work.  You said the whole Democratic establishment hatched a conspiracy to purge the party of the Clintons.  That requires some factual backing or at least an explanation of the inferences drawn.


by the mollusk on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:11:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I said what? (none / 0)

You said the whole Democratic establishment hatched a conspiracy to purge the party of the Clintons.

I never said the whole Democratic establishment was engaged in a conspiracy against the Clintons.  

I specifically called out Howard Dean and Donna Brazile, and discussed the new guard vs. the old guard.  That would be more like a 50/50 split, or something to that extent, as opposed to "the whole Democratic establishment".


My name is Barney Gumble, and I'm an alcoholic. Lisa: This is a girl scouts meeting. Barney: Is it, or is it you girls can't admit that you have a problem?
by PJ Jefferson on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:23:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I said what? (2.00 / 1)

ok, point well taken.  but still, if you're going to say there's a conspiracy, not a nomination battle, you still need to provide some evidence or justification.


by the mollusk on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:30:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I said what? (none / 0)

where did he say "conspiracy"?


by zerosumgame on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:58:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I said what? (none / 0)

in a different comment thread in this same diary.


by the mollusk on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 02:11:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Grassy Knoll? (none / 0)


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:03:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Se (none / 0)

how is calling out sexism part of the campaign?


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:40:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Se (none / 0)

If he is seen interfering in the coverage either candidate was getting, it would look like he was tipping his hand.  He never stood up for Obama during the flag pin controversey, the Wright scandal, NAFTA-gate, Gulf of Obama's-a-Muslim Tonkin, cocaine when he was a youth-ism, Michelle Obama hates her country gate, or Bay of Donny McClurkin (was that his name?) Pigs.

He's just stayed out of sticking up for the candidates.  I think that's what he's supposed to do.  And just to be clear, he was talking specifically about the nomination race on Sunday. So if he mentioned sexism it had to be in regards to Hillary Clinton and not as a general concept.


by the mollusk on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 02:20:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious (2.00 / 4)

"Why would Dean wait until two day before the last primaries to call-out the rampant sexism we have witnessed over the past months?"

Because his job is to herd the bunch of wet cats that make up the Democratic Party, not the media.  That being said, I'm glad he put that out there.

Canadian Gal, I say this as respectfully as I can:

Please take "yes" for an answer.

This is the sort of thing many here were rightfully demanding.  


by Reaper0Bot0 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:09:37 PM EST

I agree with you (2.00 / 3)

Howard had to appear neutral in this and calling out the media would make him appear like he was favoring Clinton.  

I am extremely glad he did it though, hopefully Obama follows suit, the sooner the better.

Howard's job of unity is hard enough as it is because as Mr. Rogers once said:

I do not belong to any organzied party, I am a democrat.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:14:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree with you (2.00 / 2)

Howard had to appear neutral in this and calling out the media would make him appear like he was favoring Clinton.

if this is true - does it not disgust you?  


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:25:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree with you (none / 0)

That he has to appear neutral?  No, every single party leader expect for Bill Clinton was neutral, and he ONLY gets a pass cause it was his wife.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:38:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no - what i meant was... (2.00 / 2)

how is calling out sexism a partisan issue?  to me - it totally seems separate from the campaign.  and the idea that the DNC would appear to favour HRC in having done so seems ridiculous.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:40:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no - what i meant was... (2.00 / 1)

Oh sorry, misread the emphasis.  Yeah I agree with you but I would hope the media itself would be more of a watchdog but sadly the pentagon propoganda article proves that they "take care of their own" better than the mob sometimes.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:42:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no - what i meant was... (none / 0)

That's just not true.  The context of all of this is the nomination battle.  Especially what Howard Dean says.  He didn't, as far as I remember, talk about race either.  And if he did, everyone would assume that he was talking about Bill Clinton or Geraldine Ferraro.  He was wise to keep his mouth shut.


by the mollusk on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 02:23:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree with you (none / 0)

I would strongly argue `was neutral' should be changed in your statement to `tried to appear neutral'.  Nancy Pelosi would be one of my favorite examples, although, of course, I don't actually know her inner thoughts and predispositions.

I would also argue that 'he ONLY gets a pass' should read 'he gets a pass'.

Otherwise, I'm right with you.


by Liame on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:32:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It does me, and I'm not buying that argument (none / 0)

Take the Florida and Michigan debacle as another example. It took Dean all these months and a thoroughly confusing, disappointing primary process to reach the same basic decision it took Republicans all of 5 minutes to render. Please.


by phoenixdreamz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:40:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Dean had nothing to do with the Michigan & Fl (2.00 / 1)

debacle.  That was the work of the the RBC and its 13 out 30 members who support Hillary Clinton and unanimously voted to seat no delegates from Florida and Michigan.  You should at least point the blame on the right people.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:54:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree with you (2.00 / 3)

I think that was Will Rogers.

Mr. Rogers said, "Won't you be my neighbor?"


by LakersFan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:34:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree with you (none / 0)

Well if he were neutral why didn't he use the same standard when he went on FOX News and called them out for race baiting in defense of Obama?


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:12:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

When? n/t (none / 0)


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:55:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When? n/t (none / 0)

Google is a free search engine.


"No self-respecting woman should wish or work for the success of a party that ignores her." - Susan B. Anthony
by feelfree on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:55:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When? n/t (none / 0)

well he criticized the media and the gop for bringing up wright...


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:56:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

That was to defend a Democratic candidate for... (none / 0)

Congress.  He would have done the same thing if they were bashing that candidate with Clinton.  It had nothing to do with Obama, but with winning more Congressional seats.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 01:05:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

i dont think sitting silent no matter what the (none / 0)

contest is just.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 01:07:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I never said it was, but it doesn't indicate... (none / 0)

bias, which is the most common refrain and the implication in your diary.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 01:09:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

that is not implied in this diary. (none / 0)

you asked where dean called out racism and i gave you an example.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 01:12:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I know and you did... (none / 0)

I thought it was in relationship to a presidential canididate and it wasn't, but he still did it.  And I'm sorry if I inferred something you did not mean to imply, but it seemed like that was you implication to me.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 01:26:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious (none / 0)

Have some mojo for the best job description...

Herding wet cats indeed... and those are just the Democrats he is in contact with... the bloggers, et. al. make the wet cats look positively well behaved and well mannered by comparison.


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:16:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Surely you meant to type (none / 0)

"the Democats"?

;-)


by aggieric on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:19:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Please take "yes" for an answer? (2.00 / 2)

Im not sure what you are referring to?  I am merely wondering about the timing of this.  

some below suggested that doing it earlier would have appeared to favour HRC.  if this is the case - its disgusting - calling out sexism or racism is not a matter of political posturing....  sorry.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:21:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Better late than never. (none / 0)

Agreed.

Racism was called out and, I believe, sometimes wrongly or for political purpose.

Sexism was largely overlooked or chuckled at.

The media was the largest culprit, and I certainly am not indicating that it was planned, just that it had a large impact on the tone of the campaign at certain points, a tone that impacted the Clinton campaign's ability to develop momentum.


by Liame on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:39:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

When? n/t (none / 0)


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:59:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When? (none / 0)

Perhaps you are tone deaf.

res ipsa loquitur


by Liame on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 06:39:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not disputing anything I just wanted to know.. (none / 0)

when was racism "called out."  The only instance I was informed of racism being called out was in defense of a Congressional candidate.  I just wanted to know when racism was disputed by the party chair.

And with regards to res ipsa loquitar, I cannot rebut claims that are not made.  Or did you want me to refut the statement racism called out with all those negative examples of it not happening.  I need something to dispute or else you have made no allegation, just conjecture.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 07:59:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not disputing anything (none / 0)

Sorry, I was just feeling a little put out by the really short antagonistic answers that sometimes appear in these diaries.

To your question (insensitive from a racial perspective comments called out) ...

Bill Clinton's Jessie Jackson comment.
Geraldine Ferraro's race as a factor comment.
Ed Rendell's  not ready to vote for an African-American candidate comment.
Hillary Clinton's Barack Obama is not a Muslim, as far as I know comment.

... to name a few.


by Liame on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:13:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm not disputing anything (none / 0)

I missed the `party chair' qualifier on my first reading of your response.  However, these examples are appropriate for the DNC hierarchy, to which I was referring in my earlier comments.


by Liame on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 11:17:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually I read a number of articles (MSM) that (none / 0)

sexism is harder to overcome than racism.  I'm not sure this is true, or not, but it was widely written about.

The talking head media, though, are generally whores.  We should expect no better of them, nor of networks that no longer employ real reporters.  All they can do with what they have left is scream & whine & accuse & quote talking points.


by Garret on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:08:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please take "yes" for an answer? (2.00 / 1)

He honestly couldn't fairly call it out when it was Ferraro screaming about it.  Her last round of media attacks included bashing black journalists.  You can't agree with someone about sexism when that person is spouting racist remarks at the same time.


by shalca on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:50:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please take "yes" for an answer? (2.00 / 1)

oh, that is a lame excuse.  I think that someone like Dean, a pol, could have navigated those waters without a problem


by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:14:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Please take "yes" for an answer? (none / 0)

Maybe.  I'm not really trying to excuse him.  But I do believe if Dean gave legitimacy to Ferraro's point while ignoring the not so latent racism coming out of her mouth at the same time he would have stuck his foot in his mouth.  It's not like Dean is the most charismatic political figure out there when it comes to avoiding saying or doing stupid things.  His best option, which for Dean is usually his best option, was to keep his mouth shut.


by shalca on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:21:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Se (1.16 / 6)

"Why would Dean wait until two day before the last primaries to call-out the rampant sexism we have witnessed over the past months?"

Because he and the Donna Braziles of the DNC are phony and hypocritical, that's why.  I found his comments condescending and insulting, frankly.  His false indignation is laughable.  Too little too late, Mr Dean.  Your fake sympathy is disgusting.


by trixta on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:10:23 PM EST

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Se (2.00 / 1)

Almost as bad as your fake outrage.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:38:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Is this Snark? (2.00 / 1)

seriously,

Is this snark?


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:05:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is this Snark? (none / 0)

Trixta is the lamest of GOP trolls.

I think she went to the McBlogger camp, was kicked out.

Read her comments, only a home schooled gop-er could come up with such lame shit.

My other theory is that she is the 12 year old kid, maybe that flowbee guy?


http://www.truepat.org/
by CrushTheGOP2008 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:56:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The same thing occured to me too (2.00 / 4)

My guess is that someone pulled him aside and strongly suggested it would be a good idea to say something if he hopes to unify the party.

As to why it took him so long, well, let me put it this way. Both Howard Dean and Harry Reid can't resign their leadership positons soon enough to suit me.

Nice diary, thank you.


by phoenixdreamz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:10:54 PM EST

Re: The same thing occured to me too (2.00 / 1)

Actually he accused the media of  sexism in the same way when he did the opening speech at the Rules Committee meeting the other day.

He may well have said this before, but who says the media would report it, even?


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:34:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Let's reinstall Terry Mac (1.00 / 1)

He only insults eggheads and redstates and bloggers


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:07:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ha, no thank you (none / 0)

I'm not a fan of Terry, or Penn, or Patti Solis Doyle, tyvm.


by phoenixdreamz on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:50:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Howie Needs Money $$$$ (2.00 / 1)

As does Pelosi. Pelosi should have thought about that back in late February when she began slapping down the idea of a unity ticket, hinting she doesn't want Hillary on the ticket at all.


by catfish2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:17:20 PM EST

Re: Howie Needs Money $$$$ (none / 0)

Oh gnoes!!!!one!!11!

Someone actually expressed their opinion, as opposed to coyly obfuscating!

DESTROY!


by Reaper0Bot0 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:20:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She's free to express her opinion (1.00 / 0)

and she's free to cry for unity now. And we are free to laugh when she does so.


by catfish2 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:21:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

that's sexist! (none / 0)

she's free to cry for unity now.

shame on you


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:11:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Damned if you do, damned if you don't (2.00 / 2)

He's in an awkward position of never being able to please everyone. Anything he said/says is parsed 10 ways to hell and is guaranteed to piss off half the party. And he's not exactly the world's greatest politician, though he is a great organizer.


John McCain wants to make abortion illegal
by Lost Thought on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:18:52 PM EST

he finally saw the women supporters of hillary (none / 0)

at the rbc meeting.

dean does not want the stink of sexism to befall the superdelegates or the wonderboy obama and his campaign or the politicians from obama's camp who has repeatedly called for hillary to step aside.


by darwinism on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:26:05 PM EST

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Se (2.00 / 1)

Again, no amount of kowtowing, short of handing her the nomination is enough.

Dean calls out sexism while staying silent as Obama gets hit with every whisper campaign email BS bit of info imaginable? He's screwed Hillary, and in the tank for Obama.

The establishment gives her 100+ superdelegates more than anyone else? They're ungrateful.

She's allowed to repeatedly endorse the Republican nominee at the expense of our frontrunner? They've turned their backs on her, and are pushing Obama down our throats.

Nothing short of complete acquiescence is ever enough.

Is she Hillary Clinton or the Borg? Some supporters of hers make me wonder...


by Reeves on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:27:36 PM EST

sorry... (2.00 / 1)

how does your comment at all reflect the content in the diary?


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:30:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: sorry... (none / 0)

Reflects the following from this thread:

"Why would she want to be part of a party that considers her a monster who dreams of assassination?"

Because "the party" says that.

"Because of her ill-treatment and utter rejection by the Dem Party, HRC should take her very significant coalition and start a new centrist party."

Yes, "the party" cast those votes against her. Not like they gave her advantage to start this or anything...

"As to why it took him so long, well, let me put it this way. Both Howard Dean and Harry Reid can't resign their leadership positons soon enough to suit me."


by Reeves on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:34:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Se (2.00 / 1)

Obviously, the choice is one of timing.  But I disagree with the various conspiracy theorists who've commented above.  In most campaigns, timing wouldn't matter.  A clear frontrunner emerges, challengers fade away, and the DNC (which is supposed to act in a neutral manner) doesn't really risk upsetting the process by interjecting.  But this year, with a close contest that has gone the distance, it becomes much tougher for the DNC (or Dean, in particular) to comment without influencing the process.  Now, had Dean said something VERY early on, it would have probably been ok.  But once the Clinton campaign started up with the sexism meme, any comment from Dean would have been backing one campaign's talking point (even if it happened to be true).  

In hindsight, I hope Dean will realize that he probably played it too safe.  He could have acted aggressively on behalf of both campaigns (so long as he wasn't, in doing so, tacitly backing an attack on either one).  


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:30:44 PM EST

i agree with most of what you are saying... (2.00 / 1)

however - i dont think this is about political posturing.  its about what is fair and just and speaking out to the treatment of a fellow democrat totally separate from the campaign.  and really his timing on this could not have been much worse - only speaking for me - it seems disingenuous.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:37:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i agree with most of what you are saying... (2.00 / 3)

I agree with you.  As I said, I think he played it way too safe out of fear that he would influence the election and give voice to fears that the DNC was backing one candidate...and by doing so, he did just that!  Now people assume he has backed Obama, when all he's really done is to stay out of it.  I'm sure I haven't seen them all, but most of his media appearances focus on two things: 1.) Look how many people voted in Democratic primaries! and 2.) John McCain sucks!  I'd have liked him to defend his candidates, but I also realize that it wouldn't look great if the DNC stepped in like a parent every time big, bad Johnny McCain said something mean.  

It's a tough line to walk, between being overactive and neutral.  He tended toward staying out of it, and did so to a fault, I think.  


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:47:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

interesting comment. (2.00 / 1)

im going to have to let this one marinate...


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:57:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out (2.00 / 1)

Wow, has Howard Dean been a disappointment as DNC chair. The guy is completely gutless.


by LakersFan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:30:59 PM EST

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out (2.00 / 1)

He's a damned sight better than his predecessor, Terry "Landslide" McAulliffe.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:34:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out (2.00 / 1)

Actually, I was going to say that he makes McAuliffe look not-so-bad in retrospect. McAuliffe was DNC chair in an era that was much less friendly to Democrats.


by LakersFan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:38:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out (2.00 / 3)

Because he had a 15 state strategy.  In Terry's world we don't pick up those three seats in special elections this year because there is no party sctructure there.  Dean put those in place and they are paying off big time.

If you don't like him because he isn't in the bag for your candidate that's fine, but don't confuse anger over losing for someone doing a good or bad job.


Tony Romo for Secretary of Awesome
by kasjogren on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:41:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out (2.00 / 1)

I don't like Dean because he's gutless. As DNC chair, he's not in a position to be in the bag for any candidate. He is in the position to be the leader of the party, which he's failed at miserably.


by LakersFan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:53:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Celtics in 5 (none / 0)

Laker fans are so bitter


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:14:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Celtics in 5 (none / 0)

Wrong.

The Lakers will bring home the championship with a Father's Day win in Staples Center (game 5) as purple and gold streamers fall from the rafters. Phil Jackson will surpass Red Auerbach, Kobe will be Finals MVP, and we'll all be singing "We Love L.A."


by LakersFan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:36:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

this is divisive (none / 0)

How can you support someone as sexist as Kobe


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:52:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: this is divisive (none / 0)

You have no reason to accuse Kobe of being sexist. Just another Lakers hater, I'm well acquainted with your ilk. Maybe I should accuse Paul Pierce of gang activity?


by LakersFan on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 09:35:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I should hide you for saying that... (2.00 / 1)

Lakers are going to crush!  There just going to be too fast and too strong for Boston.  Lakers in 6!


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:10:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Laker Liberal (none / 0)

Grrrrrrrr!


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:53:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Se (none / 0)

Looks like we got ourselves some trolls..
for darwinisticreeves....and friends..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELTA1U6F7 04


"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:50:32 PM EST

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Se (2.00 / 1)

By the way it is Dr. Dean...


"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:51:21 PM EST

oops. ill change - thanks. (2.00 / 1)


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:54:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Se (none / 0)

Or Governor Dean, as your etiquette book will tell you, that you address a person formally by the title of the highest office he or she achieved.

You can take you choice as to whether that would be Dr. or Gov. in Gov. Dean's case.


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:39:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Se (none / 0)

oh yeah usually I don't link to hate sites...
however..the topic is Dr. Dean..
http://noquarterusa.net/blog/category/ho ward-dean/

notice who has the second posting there....


"harlequin speech of suicide, demanding instantaneous lobotomy"
by nogo postal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 04:59:45 PM EST

it is curious (none / 0)

but expected.  This in part is to take the spotlight off of Obama's resignation from the church, and the last pastor to speak at that church whose remarks were sexist, racist, and inflammatory.  None of Obama's supporters, the DNC, nor his supers came out and called remarks disgusting...neither did Obama.  McCain was the only one to say anything.

So to casually focus on Clinton and sexism to me is just part of the plan.  That said, at least he finally said something.


by 4justice on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:09:38 PM EST

Considering how the DLC... (none / 0)

and the Clintonistas treated Dean, my governor, my candidate, in '04, (and even now) I find his behavior extremely honorable. He could be so bitter...but isn't.

Likely too, that she's asking for this sort of validation from the party heads.


"Not only do I want an elite president, I want someone who's embarrassingly superior to me." -- Jon Stewart, 4/15/08
by JulieinVT on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:29:42 PM EST

Bin Laden ad (none / 0)

remember the 527 Bin Laden ad run against Dean prior to Iowa.


"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!
by Al Rodgers on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:17:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bin Laden ad (none / 0)

Ugh. I still remember much more than I ever wanted to.  Obama is Dean's kind of candidate, so in a sense, I feel that KARMA has worked it's magic.  


"Not only do I want an elite president, I want someone who's embarrassingly superior to me." -- Jon Stewart, 4/15/08
by JulieinVT on Tue Jun 03, 2008 at 10:14:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case (2.00 / 2)

Given the opportunity to comment on Ferraro's nutty comments on reverse racism, Dean stated he wouldn't comment on those (because they were so far out of the mainstream) but he would comment about sexism. And so he did, at length. Then he spoke warmly of Sen. Clinton and how he knows she would put the best interests of her country ahead of party and personal ambition.

Personally, I was struck by his sincerity throughout - most forcefully when he spoke of Clinton as someone who cares deeply about the good of the country (contrary to what some have speculated).

And I'm pretty impressed with what he said about her, considering her surrogates have spent so much time trashing him.


by Mobar on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:38:21 PM EST

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case (2.00 / 1)

Actually, this harks back to his speech to the RBC.  He told a story of how angry he was during the 2004 campaign at the Democratic Party, and how Al Gore pulled him back from the brink, reminding him that it wasn't about you, Howard, it's about what's best for the country.

Howard said his wife couldn't tell him that.  Only Al Gore could do it, because of the way the 2000 election went.


"There are two kinds of statistics: the kind you look up and the kind you make up" --Rex Stout
by LIsoundview on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:42:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie Dean (none / 0)

Agreed.


by Liame on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:55:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and Calling-Out Sexism. (none / 0)

Why did he wait?

Because Howard is a Coward.

He should have been calling out people right from the start on the sexist outrage that's been going on.

Now that he's afraid that the thick slime of sexism will prevent party unity, he digs into his shallowness and finds the words to criticize the sexist barrage that's been evident all along.

His behavior is pathetic.


by cuppajoe on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 06:21:13 PM EST

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Se (2.00 / 1)

Here's what I think is curious.  If sexism has been such a big part of this campaign from the beginning, why didn't people start making an issue about it until very late in the campaign?  I don't recall the exact date when the sexism meme was suddenly being pushed aggressively by Clinton supporters and Clinton herself, but I'm guessing all of this didn't start en masse to come out until after May 6, when she failed to change the game in North Carolina and barely won in Indiana.  


by ProfessorReo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 07:04:34 PM EST

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Se (2.00 / 1)

it has been out there.

check out http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2 008/02/hillary-sexism-watch.html

they been blogging this for a while

also, go to media matters and type in sexism Hillary in the search section and you will find a lot.

the MSM isn't going to report it, because they are the guilty parties.  Hillary isn't really going to push it, because we know what happens when a woman cried foul.

trust me, when a woman cries sexism, they are taken to the mat.


by colebiancardi on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:16:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Howie D and the Curious Case of Calling-Out Se (2.00 / 1)

The thing is, though, Hillary Clinton has pushed the sexism meme, hard.  The curious thing is the timing - most of that pushing has come after May 6.  Not that much before then.  

Also, with the media, they have been talking about it quite a bit, again, since May 6, so I disagree when you say that the MSM won't touch the issue.  Just the other day, Chris Matthews had a segment devoted entirely to that issue, with a panel of three women.  And he wasn't dismissive of the issue, either.  I think he did that because there has been public criticisms of Chris Matthews for his sexism, and he seemed like he was a bit contrite and ended the segment by saying he would like to have more discussion about this.  

Even Geraldine Ferraro has been given the opportunity by the national media to have her concerns about sexism and reverse racism against whites heard.  She appeared on Fox news, the Today Show on NBC, and the NY Time published her op-ed piece.

And Fox News have been very aggressive in pushing the issue, inviting Hillary supporters and surrogates to come on and talk about it.  Even Bill O'Reilly!  

So, the MSM has covered this issue, because Hillary, her campaign, and supporters brought it up.  My question is, how come it came up so late during the campaign?  


by ProfessorReo on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:52:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

um - no. (none / 0)

she brought it up framed around the issue of her supporters who have decrying this for months.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 08:58:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: um - no, back. (2.00 / 1)

I disagree wholeheartedly.  Hillary did not just give voice to the claims of sexism from her supporters.  She actively constructed the sexism meme, directly and through her surrogates.  

If you think I'm wrong, please show me proof that this issue of sexism was a major issue among Hillary Clinton supporters all throughout the campaign.  I need more than a cite to just one blog - show me opinion pieces dated prior to May 6, show me hundreds of diaries and blog entries talking about how sexism in the MSM and in the Obama campaign was destroying Hillary's chances of winning.  Point to examples of sexism by the democratic party, the Obama campaign, and the MSM.  Please show me more of those video clips.

Also, let's be clear about what is being talked about.  Hillary Clinton has raised three separate charges of sexism: sexism in the media; sexism in the Obama campaign; and sexism in the democratic pa