marriage equality

In light of the California ruling allowing the gay to be married legally, it's time to confront this question that we all knew was coming, although most of us ignored it.

Well, the time is now.

The point of this diary is to have a poll.  The poll question asks if youre for full marriage equality or only gay marriage equality.

I'm trying to separate the activists from those who truly wish for FULL marriage equality for everyone (and I mean everyone, including the weirdly religious).

Vote honestly.


Poll
Are you for full marriage equality?
yes, a man having two wives doesn't bother me at all
no, I am against three people living together in marriage
i am for three people being married only if they are gay
i am against all but traditional two person man-woman marriage
I am only for gay marriage equality

Votes: 20
Results : Vote Link : Polls

Display:


Re: marriage equality (2.00 / 5)

This is called a false dilemma. Where's the option:

I'm for monogamous marriage equality

PS. If this is your idea of fun, you may need some counseling.


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:23:31 AM EST

Re: marriage equality (1.00 / 1)

Then you should click number two.

It's pretty obvious.


by lemon714 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:37:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: marriage equality (2.00 / 5)

What is completely obvious is that the poll, and the diary, are nothing more than lame republican provocations.


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:48:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: marriage equality (1.00 / 2)

What is obvious is that the diarist has posed a question that forces you to confront your own prejudices and hypocrisies.

I daresay that was the point.


by lemon714 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:52:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: marriage equality (2.00 / 2)

I know what the point was. If you call democratic values hypocrisies and prejudices, you're just confirming my previous observation. Bye, bye troll.


Pointing to the inadequacies of John McCain
by duende on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:54:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: marriage equality (2.00 / 2)

In principle, I'm not opposed to polygamist marriage, but in practice, from what I've seen in terms of evidence, there's quite a bit of abuse in the relationships and it tends to not work out for the most part. With that being said, we can't legislate based on conjecture, because I don't think there's quite enough evidence to say that even a majority of polygamist unions are legitimately abusive.

So, with that being said, I'm am down for everything across the board, including multiple husbands/wives.


Hillary supporter for Barack Obama in 2008
by zcflint05 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:26:45 AM EST

Re: marriage equality (none / 0)

bravo, agreed.


by lemon714 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:45:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This leads the Far Right Argument:: (none / 0)

"Liberal perverts want to define marriage as orgies and bestiality!!!!!!"

Great way to feed the GOP machine, Rankles.

Your poll - on the slim chance that it is sincere - misses including all of the options and only leaves anti-answers.

To answer the question you leave unasked - "is polygamy OK?" - no, not in the common sense of a single man marrying multiple wives.  The Biblical version of this is the ownership of women.  The FLDS version of this is training girls to be the property of men.

What two or more independent adults choose to do in their relationships and/or bedrooms is their own choice, but polygamy in all its most common forms is equivalent to slavery.


"Because after an eight-year hiatus it is vital to have a president who leads the country instead of lassoing, roping and branding it." Shaun Appleby
by chrisblask on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:31:21 AM EST

Re: This leads the Far Right Argument:: (2.00 / 1)

I disagree (sort of).  I don't have any evidence, but if any polygamous relationship was like Big Love (HBO show), I would support it.  I don't mind the government putting restrictions on what is officially, legally marriage because of the complications (which wife/husband gets to pull the plug?  Any?  Do they need a quorum?), but if they want to live together and raise kids together, more power to them.  5 mothers has to be better than none.


by ProgressiveDL on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:54:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Interesting thought experiment (none / 0)

I presume you'd want a unanimous decision among the surviving spouses to "pull the plug."  But everyone should have a living will, and a polygamous marriage would seemingly only make that more necessary.  So hopefully the point would be moot.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 08:12:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Interesting thought experiment (none / 0)

"The Biblical version of this is the ownership of women."

So is the biblical version of simple monagamous marriage, so that argument doesn't hold water.

Heck, the bibllical version of parentage is that the parents own the child, which is no longer true.  I don't see anyone wanting to do away with parenting (except, of course, for the most hardcore statists.)


by lemon714 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 08:36:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I could not doubt Rankles' intent more. (2.00 / 3)

All of these are interesting debates.  But given that I believe Rankles to be an actual GOP troll, I can only imagine his intent is to gather "proof" that liberals want to destroy American society.


"Because after an eight-year hiatus it is vital to have a president who leads the country instead of lassoing, roping and branding it." Shaun Appleby
by chrisblask on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 09:48:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: marriage equality (2.00 / 4)

"Great way to feed the GOP machine, Rankles."

I think he is a cog in the GOP machine.


by Aris Katsaris on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:40:04 AM EST

Re: marriage equality (2.00 / 2)

There are (what I would call) true polygamists living throughout this country, men who don't use the cloak of religion as some sort of edict to molest young girls. I've never heard of any, but I'm sure they're out there.
Polygamy is a thing of the past, like slavery. It should die a quiet death.
by skohayes on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:52:40 AM EST

Choices listed are inherently sexist (2.00 / 4)

So I reject your poll.  You provide only a choice of "one man and two wives."  What about one woman and two husbands?

I still say the best way to equality is to get the government out of this arena entirely.  The government shouldn't be "marrying" anyone--it should be establishing legally-recognized civil unions and/or domestic partnerships.  This would apply for a man and a women; two men; two women; a man and two women; two men and a woman; or any other combination you could name.  The only requirement would be that they're working together to support a household and want to grant certain rights to each other like filing taxes jointly and allowing hospital visitation and all the many other rights granted to married couples.

I disagree with those saying that there's something inherently proprietary in a polygamous marriage.  Monogamous marriage, for most of the world, is no longer about a man taking a wife as his property; why would polygamous marriage still be?  You can't make an argument based off what one fundamentalist LDS sect believes, because I assure you there are lots of fundamentalist sects around the world that still treat regular old monogamous marriage as a property contract.


Proud member of the Wikipedia Generation of American politics
by BishopRook on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 08:08:51 AM EST

Re: Choices listed are inherently sexist (none / 0)

Mojo'd for....well, simply a rocking post!


by lemon714 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 08:38:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What about tunafish sandwiches? (2.00 / 4)

Where's the option for marrying food products?

Luckily, there's a candidate out there who is in favor of letting marriage be defined by whatever church you favor.

Barack Obama's stance is that marriage is a religious right, while the rights and responsibilities currently inherent in marriage should be part of a comprehensive civil union program that includes all couples, straight, gay, transgendered, whatever.  Let churches argue over who gets to say that they're "married" while we're over here ensuring that any two people can make sure that they have property, tax, and visitation rights concurrant with what modern couples associate with marriage.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 08:36:11 AM EST

Your poll is sexist... (2.00 / 4)

...and limiting for other reasons.

You mention a man living with two wives, but not a woman living with two husbands?  That's the problematic right there - the way polygamy has tended to work out in this country and in others, it is women who bear the burden of oppression and exploitation, but men who get the "reward" of multiple partners.

Moreover, the only options are that "A man living with two wives doesn't bother me" - which isn't a statement of legality, but of morality or taste.  I don't think polyamorous relationships are an ideal plan, and it bothers me a bit especially when those situations are abusive or coercive.  The abuse and coercion can be obvious - as in the FLDS crowd - or it can be covert, in attitudes, ways of talking and thinking, etc. that tell women (as the original polygamist LDS, and contemporary monogamous LDS, suggest) that they forego heaven if they don't marry.  In all but a few situations in more forward-thinking places, I think, polygamy equals gender oppression.  That bothers me quite a bit.

However, I think consenting adults should be able to enter into whatever legal union they want.  The key word being consenting - and there should be a much stronger test for polygamous relationships than for monogamous ones in that regard, at least for the time being, given the history of polygamy and gender oppression.

Moreover, while this would be an interesting thought piece coming from anyone else, your history on this site (and that of your sockpuppets) of pure, unabashed trollishness leads me to wonder what exactly your motives are in posting it.  Especially given the abusiveness of your alter-ego above, it seems to me that this diary is an attempt to divide this community.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 08:42:31 AM EST

Re: Sorta Freakin Me Out (2.00 / 1)

SANTORUM: In every society, the definition of marriage has not ever to my knowledge included homosexuality. That's not to pick on homosexuality. It's not, you know, man on child, man on dog, or whatever the case may be. It is one thing. And when you destroy that you have a dramatic impact on the quality --

AP: I'm sorry, I didn't think I was going to talk about "man on dog" with a United States senator, it's sort of freaking me out.


by xdem on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 09:56:41 AM EST

Please stop feeding this fucking troll n/t (2.00 / 3)


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 10:42:05 AM EST

Well, hi there, (2.00 / 3)

rankles/switching sides/switching sides2/ lemon714! I can't believe you've managed to get all these people to feed you. Congrats!


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 12:20:47 PM EST

Re: marriage equality (2.00 / 2)

How in the fuck does this idiot still have an account here?  How much more obvious does it have to be that this person is a troll that uses multiple accounts?

Oh yeah, and this diary is a turd sandwich.


And so, may evil beware and may good dress warmly and eat lots of fresh vegetables.
by thatpurplestuff on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 12:32:19 PM EST

Re: marriage equality (2.00 / 1)


by spunkmeyer on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:04:35 PM EST

Hey Lemon - have a beer! (2.00 / 0)


by spunkmeyer on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:06:32 PM EST

hey ya rankles/lemon714 (1.00 / 2)

please Fuck your self, Hard, Until you are bleeding profusely.  Then go have a lemon party with Ron Paul and John McCain
BTW most people only need one account...  What makes you special besides idiocy?
Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:16:27 PM EST

Figures you'd get (1.00 / 1)

HR'd by susie. But as you know, I agree with your sentiments entirely.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 03:23:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What Kind of Person "Agrees..Entirely.." (none / 0)

with the disgusting first ten words of the commented referred to above?


by susie on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 01:27:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Anyone familiar with rankles' history. n/t (1.00 / 0)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 04:33:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Anyone familiar with rankles' history. n/t (none / 0)

The reply tells more about the responder than the person disparaged.


by susie on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 04:39:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Anyone familiar with rankles' history. n/t (none / 0)

The responder may not realize that most MyDDers do not spend time checking history, past blogs, other sites and other commenters with whom we've bonded, etc.  Most MyDDers have full lives involving real persons present to them, whose visages we see if and when inappropriate language, deeds, and other interactions occur.

Expressing oneself on an internet site in a vile, vulgar way re someone  that one would not recognize if that person appeared at one's door is unwise.

What's expressed on the internet does not go away. It will be available to future employers, clients, friends, mates.  One would do well to choose words wisely and leave emotions out of internet conversations.


by susie on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 04:55:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good, then evidence (1.00 / 0)

of rankles/switching sides/switching sides2/lemon714's constant trolling will be available to future employers, clients, friends, and mates.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 10:02:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Figures susie would TR me. n/t (none / 0)


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Thu Jun 19, 2008 at 01:48:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Civilty in internet usage (none / 0)

The commenter has not addressed  "agree(ing) entirely"  with the vile, vulgar command addressed to another human person.
 
by susie on Thu Jun 19, 2008 at 01:59:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]


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