MyDD :: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story

Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story

by Josh Orton, Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:02:11 PM EST

Stoller snags a clip from "Morning Joe" this morning that looks at MoveOn.org's new TV ad about Iraq:

Chuck Todd, NBC's political director, calls the ad "borderline shameless." Joe Scarborough laments that no matter what the candidates say about the tone of the campaign, independent groups are going to get in the mud.

I like Chuck Todd. And I think the idea of Todd replacing Russert on Meet the Press might be a good one.

But this clip is a good reminder that there are very few pundits on national TV (or in print for that matter) who don't, at some point, treat Iraq like a process story.

This happens frequently - too often the political press doesn't consider it their job to actually examine the substance of a political argument. Just last week, I gave Marc Ambinder a hard time for complaining that progressives were taking McCain's comments about the importance of when our troops come home "out of context." The criticism only takes McCain's comments "out of context" if you assume McCain's notion of a peaceful, long-term occupation is possible.

Something similar happens here - there's absolutely no effort to explore the substance of the ad.

There's a profound difference in Iraq policy between the two candidates running for President. John McCain cavalierly suggests that he would be fine with an occupation of Iraq for 100 years, as long as casualties end. But under no imaginable circumstance is that possible. So where Chuck Todd sees a "borderline shameful" ad and Joe Scarborough crows about independent groups getting into the mud, others see a powerful but fair ad that translates the possible consequences of McCain's disastrous Iraq policy into a tangible, real-world reality.

Tags: MoveOn.org, Chuck Todd, John McCain (all tags)

Permalink :: 72 Comments :: Post a Comment

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

Thats a disgusting ad in my view .

I have always thought Chuck Todd was pedestrian as an analyst but the ad is a turn off.

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:06:17 PM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

Agreed Lori, an awful stupid ad for lots of reasons.

Moveon always seems to hit just the wrong notes (to me anyway) when it approaches an issue. Their ads are so incredibly smug and thoughtless.

by mady on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:26:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 3)

Oh, this ad is smug and thoughtless?

How many children do you have? Do you want them in Iraq? Do you approve of the war? Do you think the deaths, the current suicides, the huge number of wounded, have been worth it?

I have a twelve-year-old son and a fourteen-year-old daughter. I don't want them anywhere near an administration run by a man with absolutely no respect for the troops...and by that I mean John McCain.

I find it sad and pathetic to see the trolls here who are clearly determined to boost the Republicans.

by JoeW on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:37:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

Mady is actually a staunch Obama supporter.

" I don't want them anywhere near an administration run by a man with absolutely no respect for the troops...and by that I mean John McCain. "

- Thats ridiculous and unbelievable.

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:40:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

I am not a troll, first of all, but a strong Obama supporter from the day Edwards left the race. You can look at my posts if you have any doubts about that.

I am also opposed to the war, but I resent knee-jerk sentimentalism as a means to communicate a very serious message. Sacrificing a child to war is always a terrible thing but unless you believe all war is wrong for any reason (WWII for instance) it is not a good message for opposition to a specific war.

Moveon tends to do this kind of shmaltzy half assed appeal to emotions too much of the time. It does not address some legitimate questions folks have about how we conduct leaving Iraq. I don't think McCain loves war and portraying him as "oh no he is after my kids" really makes any kind of discourse about this very difficult.

by mady on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:44:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 2)

Oh and death is not emotional.

You say you are for Obama but I cant imagine the whole time.

Sounds like the concern meme, I say by all means use emotion, Americans are idiots when it comes to this war.

Hey look at me, ALL the troops could die in Iraq and it wont effect me one bit, as I know noone enlisted because I live in a city the recruiters gave up long ago on.

My point is America doesn't care, and why should they there is no draft and the majority of us have no friends or family there.

I want you to look a solider in the face and say "I want this war to end, but I want it to end on cold hard facts and 50 hours of NPR and CSPAN".

For those who hate using emotions please watch this, plenty of emotion but 110% right on point.

I for one will use ANY and all means neccessary to use the war in this campaign, my little brother who isn't as political as me uses the line "So you like endless wars" and that ends the conversation.

by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:06:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

MoveOn has some very lousy copywriters as a rule. their ads do little to move opinion and often hurt more than help...

This is why Obama is asking big donors to stop donating to 527's and move $$$ to the DNC, so that messaging can be controlled and coordinated.... thereby making it more effective.

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:34:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

I think that is a much better way of getting the campaign's message out than the use of 527s. I donate as much as I can on my minimal budget to the Obama campaign, and since the end of the primary, to other Democratic candidates as well; never to 527s.

I am totally in opposition to this war, but I think the message that goes out needs to be very specific. You can use the "oh no the children" for almost any issue on almost any side; it does not answer questions, it does not make people a supporter of a candidate they have unanswered questions about. Specificity does that.

by mady on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:45:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

Actually, I think that the reason the ad resonates is precisely because the war is so illegitmate.

With respect to a difficult war that was nonetheless viewed as fair and justified, ad would feel absurd. Would be hard to see any organization thinking it could be effect.

Only with respect to a dumb war does the ad impact us as it does.

by YuedoTiko on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:52:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 2)

What about the ad turned you off? I thought it was a rather novel ad, uncomfortable watch, but also gave me goose bumps and managed to drive the point home.

I thought it was an interesting way of humanizing what McCain actually said and what it would actually mean to people.

There are some other things I think the ad does well too (including reach out to women voters.)

ENOUGH!

by JDF on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:40:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

"I thought it was an interesting way of humanizing what McCain actually said and what it would actually mean to people."

Right On the point. I can see obama's concern regarding 527's and they should coordinate what they release with obama camp esp on ad releases (ie which add might cross the line) but this one doesn't cross it. humanizing Iraq war is percisly what we need to do more to drive home the costs that are paid in lives daily.

by Fistjab on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 11:26:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Disgusting? Bush's Iraq policy is disgusting... (2.00 / 2)

...this ad emotionally devastating but perfectly legitmate.

by YuedoTiko on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:45:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

Because in all their minds, they see this as different from Vietnam, or from our own revolution for that matter. i wasn't around back then but reading about it, and hearing some still talk today, the basic line is, if we stay long enough, eventually they'll just accept defeat, which never happens.

by Dog Chains on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:06:21 PM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

Why isn't it possible for casualties to end and for the U.S. to maintain a base in Iraq, for example, in a part of the country that is very friendly to the U.S., such as the non-disputed portions of Kurdistan?

You (we?) may consider that undesirable, but simply claiming that it is impossible doesn't make it so.

by markjay on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:13:40 PM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

I don't care if our presence in Iraq is peaceful or not; the point is that we shouldn't be there AT ALL.

Am I the only one who thinks it would be just as wrong for us to have a permanent presence in Iraq (and Germany, S. Korea, etc.) as it would be for another country to set up a base here in America?

$439Billion spent on the US Military and still no universal health care.

by jlars on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:17:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

That's a legitimate argument. And if you or others believe that, then arguments can be made on that basis. But that's a different argument than saying that McCain is calling for a 100-year-long war.

by markjay on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:58:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

both are legitimate (2.00 / 1)

McCain's policy has us in Iraq for a hundred years or more, irrespective of the level and duration of hostilities this entails.

The fact that McCain might hope for something less than a full state of war for the full hundred years is irrelevant.

by YuedoTiko on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:15:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

I don't understand my some democrats insist on talking about Iraq like its still 2003/04.

Its almost like they just refuse to look at the changing situation there .

Gen. Peatreaus and the military are really performing heroically over there , things have changed for the better yet some cannot even acknowledge that.

No wonder the Mccain camp are pressuring Obama to go to Iraq.

Its just a little bizarre to me. Things are a whole lot different there , now we are not out of the woods yet but it would be great if it can be acknowledged and policy set based on that line of reasoning.

Both democrats Clinton and Obama talked about Iraq liked they were looking at it through the prism of 2003/04.

Thats why i have reason to doubt their rhetoric , as far as I am concerned its just a rerun of congressional democrats in 06 elections.

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:26:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

a.) People are still dying

b.) we are still wrong for being there

If you accept both of these things as true than it does not matter how well our Military is performing over there. I doesn't matter how well you do the wrong thing if it is wrong you should stop doing it.

ENOUGH!

by JDF on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:41:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

Thank you for your comments below , the feeling is mutual by the way .

You have always handled yourself well since you have been here.

I have made it clear that I am not in sync with a lot of prominent democrats including the candidate I support and still support in whatever she decides to do on the issue of Iraq , I believe she had the right position for a while until she changed especially when she cast her vote against the supplemental.

We may have been wrong going in there , but we have to come out with the best possible scenario we can achieve.

I really didn't hold both candidates in high regard as it relates to Iraq especially Clinton because I expected better from here . I believe a whole lot of the debate on Iraq by both our candidates were political posturing.

On Iraq Mccain has acted more on courage and principle than our candidates.

Look at what they both did before they cast their first votes against the supplemental , they were practically waiting for who would go first . It was disgraceful.

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:08:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

Defunding the war would have used the only power Congress still seems to have in regulating how war is done (which was originally a power that they had almost entirely). It was a good move, since most formulations contained about six months of logistic funding to complete the leaving of the country.

A lot of the improvement we have seen is also due to political actions taken by al-Sadr and the bringing in of the Sunni Awakening. Paetreus gets props for his work in achieving some of this (what little I've glimpsed of his manual does seem to make quite a bit of sense in a nuts-and-bolts kind of way).

However, what he is also demonstrating is that the Iraqis are gaining the ability and interest in holding their country together. Maybe not exactly as we want, but oh well. Also, the machinations of the Iraqi parliament are demonstrating that permanent aid is not really desired.

by odinseye2k on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:23:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

Do you believe if Obama/Clinton weren't running for president they would have cast the vote the way they did or would they have stood with Biden ?

I believe Clinton especially won't have voted against the supplemental , Obama won't as well.

My point is both our candidates are closer to where Mccain is on Iraq and when Obama becomes president I really don't believe he would pursue a policy radically different from Mccain in light of the changes on the ground which some refuse to acknowledge .

If Obama goes back to Iraq prior to the election , there is still a possibility Mccain can come out with the upper hand on Iraq.

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:32:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

If Obama does pursue something not unlike McCain after TWO elections in which the American public thought they were giving a very clear message to Democrats that they should end this occupation, then it is going to be quite detrimental to the Democratic party. Further, it will cause Obama to disabuse a new group of young voters of the notion that politics actually matters. Hopefully, he sees who his future re-election campaign will rely upon.

Also, there is one thing that has not yet changed on the ground, the elephant in the room that no one really wants to acknowledge.

Our current troop strength is such that any of our objectives continue to be at the mercy of the mood of the Iraqi people. If they finally decide they cannot reconcile with each other, or have decided en masse that they do not want us there, there is not much we can do about it.

We either have to decide that we want to rebuild Iraq and bend its political landscape to our will (which will require numbers closer to the 300,000-500,000 troop numbers estimated before this all started and a huge increase in funds poured in), or that the Iraqis really have the place to themselves, and that we should be out of their way.

That's the situation that Obama needs to outline. We may be guiding things over there, but the tiller that we have our hands on is an unreliable one at best.

I also find it incredibly amazing how much the Republicans want to reconstruct Iraq when they are amazingly unwilling to do it here.

by odinseye2k on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:52:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

^^ good points, better go out when things are clam before another sh!t storm happens (with sader and all the paid by us Iraqi insurgents..)

even today there was a suicide bombing that killed 50 people....

by Fistjab on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 11:40:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

I will agree with you in this sense (and I am going to get lambasted for saying this.) I was not 100% sure of what either of our candidates really believed in regards to the war because of the way they have postured over it. Meanwhile John McCain has shown unwavering support for an unpopular position. It does take a certain amount of political courage to do something like that- I just find it odd that he does not show that same courage in his other stances.

Also, thank you for the kind words! I feel bad when I see good members of the community treated like other people- and I feel like the first step to truly healing this place we all love is standing up for one another. Also, as I said, I have a great deal of respect for you and the way you have advocated for your beliefs on this site.

ENOUGH!

by JDF on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 09:57:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 2)

lori, do you even pretend to be a Democrat?

It's amazing to find you on a supposedly progressive site. By a margin of two-to-one, in poll after poll, people still think that the Iraq war was a terrible mistake and want the troops home, despite the supposed "progress." (Tell that to the 51 Iraqis who died in that car bombing today.)

To most Americans, to me, the thousands of dead, tens of thousands injured, thousands who have committed suicide, and all the families that have been torn apart, this war was one of the worst mistakes in American history. Even the rank and file in the military agree: That's why Obama receives much more financial support from military families than McCain does.

Oh, this is useless. It's time for me to leave this site. You trolls make me sick, and I'll get great pleasure in November imagining your anger and disappointment when McCain is trounced.

by JoeW on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:42:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

Lori has been a member of this community for a while and despite my MANY difference has always been respectful and relevant in putting forth her point of view.

I don't know anything about her personally but I have no reason to believe that she is not a good Democrat and I don't think there is any reason to be questioing her on that merit. She isn't a troll so please don't treat her like one.

ENOUGH!

by JDF on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:47:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

So, then, is the war going so badly that we have to stay or is it going so well that we have to stay?

by odinseye2k on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:43:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 2)

that's always my favorite argument, the Surge is working so good, but hold on now, there is still a need for serious presence.

Looking at a different angle one has to question if it could take 100 years before we can get to the point where we will can then start our peacful occupation of Iraq for the next 100 years

Democrat for the democratic nominee

by KLRinLA on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:02:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

Lori, first you are insane.

Second, please make a youtube video addressed to the troops telling them to calm down, that Betrayus is doing a good job, that Betrayus has their safety in higher regard then to the cleanliness of his Cheney kneepads.

by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:10:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

" Lori, first you are insane " .

- I have been getting that a lot lately lol.

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:19:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

Forget the name calling, your position on Iraq is insane.

To call Paterus a hero when he is the biggest disgrace to the dignity of the armed forces.

Just like a dog he begs on his hind legs to Cheney and Bush so he can have that shot at Senate or VP.

As a soldier he has no honor.

I think Cenk says it best:

by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:26:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

Needless to say I disagree with you vehemently .

However I recognize your right to the opinion.

He is one of the brightest minds in his generation / class.

Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.

by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:37:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

Who Cenk Uygur?

He is a brilliant man, and he will be hosting the forum called "Meet the Bloggers" where I am positive Josh will be a guest on (cant wait!)

by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:41:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 4)

Petraeus is a bootlicker who toed the GOP company line on Iraq last September. Really please read Informed Comment with Juan Cole or any other informed read on the political situation in Iraq. What has been set up there is a failed state that with a low intensity conflict that flares up into a larger conflict everytime one side wants to impose its will on another.

Petraeus basically Bantustan'd, Palestineized, whatever you want to call it by pulling out of al Anbar, helping the Shia Arabs ethnically cleanse the capital, and then erecting those gigantic concrete walls everywhere. If pushing a strategy that makes it possible for US troops to operate in the country with less amount of lethality most of the time while simultaneously cementing in place a recurrent political-economic crisis that has destroyed the country's future makes you the brightest mind of your generation, well then I think you and I have very different ideas of what the word 'bright' means.

So the next time that Sadr goes on the offensive against the government and US troop casualties spike up again are we to keep pushing our 2003/4 mentality that Iraq still matters?

by wengler on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:56:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

Because after what Americans have done to the country and it's citizens, American soldiers and civilians will always be targets to some people as long as they're in Iraq.

by skohayes on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:50:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 6)

haha, wow, this ad is great. shameless? hell yes and MoveOn knows it. "You can't have him." What a great last line. And by the way, getting down in the dirt? Really, Joe? Since when do Republicans have such freakin thin skins and such a delicate constitution? Christ.

by Todd Beeton on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:47:39 PM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 4)

Todd the problem is Democrats are spineless and afraid of winning.

I have been blown away my whole life by Democrats scared to make Republicans cry.

by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:12:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

Nancy Pelosi must be rushing to the floor to put out another vote against MoveOn.org.

Oh the humanity!

by wengler on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:58:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

I think ads like this only preach to the choir; they fail to convince anyone who is not already convinced.

by mady on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:47:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

I saw nothing "borderline shameless" about it. And where were Joe and Chuck while the swiftboat ads were running?

What we have here is a case of selective outrage brought on by "schuldkomplex."

by planetwave on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:34:03 PM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

Cheesy ad...fake sounding actress....I'm sorry but there are FAR more effective ways to attack McCain and the GOP over the war in ads than this.

What a total turn off....it really is a hideous ad.

by need some wood on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:36:30 PM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 2)

Your concern is noted, I am writing it down.

So what have you done to support our troops and ease the pain and suffering to the family's of the 4000 troops you lost.

I would hate for one of them to read your comment knowing you have done nothing.

by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:38:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

wow you are truly a disgusting person. You have no fucking clue who I am or what I've done. So fuck off.

The ad simply is ineffective in MY opinion. I think there are better ways to hit the point. I didn't say I was against ALL ads hitting McCain on the Iraq war. So READ AGAIN. And stop making accusatory and truly disgusting judgments on people who have no fucking clue about.

by need some wood on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 12:23:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Donate (2.00 / 1)

Please participate and or donate to

MoveOn.org

Bravenewfilms.org

and the DNC.

Contributing to Obama direct is great, but understand that the above three groups are leading the best methods to attack the Republican message on a national level in ways Obama just can't.

by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:37:36 PM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 2)

I was prepared to hate the ad, based on the General Betray-Us ad from a while back. I have to say that it actually didn't phase me all that much. It does make a good point - if we're going to stay in Iraq for 100 years, the children of today and even the grandchildren of those children will have to serve. It's not a comforting thought, even if Iraq magically becomes just like Germany or South Korea in a few years' time.

by rfahey22 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:41:12 PM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

I don't see anything shameless about it... it's probably MoveOn.org's best ad to date... of course that's not saying much. They pretty much suck as an advertising organization. Their copywriters absolutely stink!

Will it be effective? Probably not... MoveOn's stuff never is... that's why Obama is telling people to put their money into the DNC instead of uncoordinated 527's who can hurt more than harm.

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:42:37 PM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

That is pretty offensive to all of us involved.

IF you believe Obama or McCain's no-527 BS lines then either you are gullible or purposely deceptive.

Its so sad that it seems the primary hatred is still well alive.

You would love to see the activist base that has propelled us for the last 8 years be crushed since they didn't rally hehind Hillary, so sad.

I also never thought I would see Democrats defending Betrayus, a man who cares more about his career then the honor of serving in our military.

by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:45:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

DLS, you really need to calm down. Lord Mike is a fervent Obama supporter and always has been.
A lot of people have a bad taste in their mouth about MoveOn, but you don't need to take it personally.

by skohayes on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:55:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

Well thats not what it sounds like.

I have been on this board for the better part of this year, and the ONLY people I have heard knock MoveOn and Bravenewfilms were the hardcore HRC supporters.

This is insanity, why would you not support grass roots organizations like MoveOn.

No ones perfect so I don't understand the permanent beef here.

At the end of the say according to this site EVERY liberal organization is shit, well I am a partisan Democrat and don't be suprised if I defend my fellow democrats and attack Republicans and war mongerers.

Anyone who thinks for a second that Obama fake denouncement of 527's is real, you are losing it.

I think Lordmike has some beef with Moveon and now projects it to every other group too.

The power of the republicans is loyalty, they will always win because they stick to the program, only on our side is divisiveness awarded with praise.

by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:04:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

Huh? I think you've got the wrong dude! I'm ONE of those democratic activists! I'm an Obama supporter and a big proponent of the grassroots and the 50 state strategy and I hate HATE the DLC... I'm not a moveon member, but I support their mission.

I just not a big fan of MoveOn's advertising arm... They've been woefully ineffective in moving opinion from the beginning. Their advertising generally rallies the opponents more than democrats and does little to move independents. 2004 is a great example... Someone did an analysis of 527 advertising from our side, and it turns out that the millions of dollar spent by MoveOn and their friends gains less than a million votes for Kerry.

That's not a good return on investment. Just 'cos I criticize doesn't mean that I don't care. I want them to do better.

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:58:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

Fair enough, just understand your language came off as very dismisive of the activist movement which I support greatly.

I never viewed MoveOn as a vote maker, but more so as a vehicle to energize the type of people that vote Democratic at every election to do more than just vote.

I am glad you support their mission, and I agree with you I hope they turn this mother out.

As you see downthread I also support donating to the DNC as they have improved 200% and dare I say, deserve and need the money.

Sorry for the attack Mike, I interpreted your constructive critism as something it wasn't.

Too all the other Dem haters, you know where to go.

by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:08:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

Totally cool! I understand how communications can get mixed up around here!! I've been on the other end, myself! ;-)

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:58:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

Got an e-mail from MoveOn, once again asking me for money, and this time to support their latest Video ad, the ad that is being discussed now. They wanted me to send them $25.00. Instead of sending anything to MoveOn, except an angry e-mail, I sent $25.00 to the Nader for President campaign. When I joined MoveOn, I actually thought they were a legitimate anti-war organization. WRONG. MoveOn sat there for months and months without giving any support to Democratic (or any other) candidates who were actually anti-war candidates (Kucinich, Richardson), and claimed that it's millions of members wanted to support a Democratic nominee who like Hillary Clinton, voted over and over to fund the war in 2007, until he decided to run for President. In 2007 the Democratic congress gave Bush over $300 + billions to continue the war, and during 2007, 901 more US soldiers came home in caskets draped with the American flag.

by BARB on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:46:23 PM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

Well done. Give to the guy who would be included in any "top 10 people most directly responsible for the Iraq War."

John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way

by bosdcla14 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:59:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Bottom line? (2.00 / 2)

The ad is getting free air time. MoveOn scores again.

by planetwave on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:48:02 PM EST

Re: Bottom line? (2.00 / 2)

Thank god, I want the war to end, I dont want any more humans to die for Bush and Betrayus's egoes.

And I want Democrats to win.

Plus, standing up for Bill Clinton in 1999 when his party and media left him for dead, not so bad.

Please also check out http://bravenewfilms.org/

by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:51:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

Wonderful and great. I want Republican blood. I need Republican blood. I could drink it every day, if I could.

I'm still thirsty.

by Makey on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:55:48 PM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

You rang? LOL!

by LesGovt on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:46:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 2)

It's neither borderline shameless or effective. Everything has to be connected back to the people that are carrying the undue burden of the 21st century imperial expedition into Iraq. And those are the soldiers right now.

This ad works if there was the specter of a military draft. But this country's notion of volunteer service provides a case where this baby isn't going to have to go to Iraq unless he signs up for it. This is where the ad fails. The fear just isn't there.

Rather, these ads should push the notion of betrayal, corruption and financial insolvency. If I was to talk about the fear for the future it would be an occupation whose costs never end and whose soldiers eventually all become mercenaries. We simply can't afford this shit anymore. Not with peak oil and no energy backup plan. Imperialist endeavors are no longer affordable.

by wengler on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:06:28 PM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

I fear they will reinstate the draft. They are going to have to if they continue down this path of war with the entire freaking Middle East.

My son will be 17 in Sept. Oh yeah, I fear a draft.

by JustJennifer on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:53:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 2)

Jennifer, sorry to inform you but he has no choice.

Every male in America must register for the draft, if Bush or Obama want to call a draft they can.

Bush has stayed from his "drafting" power as it would be a quick end to his war, and thats not what he wants.

When your son turns 18 he will get a scary looking letter from the DOD that he has to sign and turn in.

And he will get a free Mach3 razor from Gillette.

Thats America.

by DemsLandslide2008 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:16:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

I know he has to register for selective service. I worry that they will start a non-voluntary selection process in the near future to keep fighting these "wars".

by JustJennifer on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:36:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 2)

No, there is no draft, but, coming from a rural area in which there is little economic opportunity, and little chance for many to attend college, and little question of the "patriotism" card played by the current administration to justify this war, I think that the aggressive recruiting the military uses in targeting regions like these, must cause mothers there to feel this fear the same way: "You can't have them..."

That said, I agree, there should be MUCH more made of the "Iraq war = current economic troubles" equation. Why aren't politicians screaming this from the rooftops?

by magnoliagirl on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:25:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 1)

To paraphrase the National Lampoon Magazine cover from more years ago than I'm ready to admit.
If you don't vote for this candidate we'll shoot this dog.

by usedmeat on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:11:16 PM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (2.00 / 2)

There is no such thing as "inappropriate" or too sentimental when it comes, ultimately, to defeating the War, Inc. machine that currently holds office (or their intended successor McCain). When I hear the stories of maimings, suicides, under-equipped troops, stop-losses, mental illness, and 4,000-plus young people dead, not to mention big contractor paydays, I think that reminding the public that this stupid war for oil has a human cost is the only way to go. I think that MoveOn hit it on the head.

I have two four-year-old boys. Last year, someone representing a recruiting group for the military called my home, ostensibly to "take a survey," but in reality to gather info about the young males in my household. (I am NOT making this up. I assume they were some contractor or consulting group, since most records would show it obvious that my sons are preschoolers). Still, it was chilling, and I thought the same thing: "F*&k you: You can't HAVE them."

by magnoliagirl on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:14:50 PM EST

As the mother of a deployed soldier (none / 0)

I find the ad disingenuous and insulting.

Volunteers in an all volunteer army choose to join the military knowing full well the risks involved. The ad suggests that somehow grown babies will be snatched from their mothers' arms to be sacrificed like cattle.
I just showed the video to my son (recently returned from Bhagdad) and it made his face turn purple. Their service shouldn't be diminished to some sort of powerless victimhood.

The conduct of something as serious as war should be debated from an intelligent, informed, honest position. Anything less is a discredit to their sacrifice.

Using soldiers as emotion evoking tools, be it this ad or the Administrations "support our troops(by agreeing with us)" bullshit is obscene.

Leave the soldiers out of this stuff. Stop exploiting them for cheap political points. Respect their professionalism and VOLUNTEERISM.

FyI- I will never forgive Move-on for Betrayus. Never.

Sexism is real.

by grassrootsorganizer on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 10:45:59 PM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

I'm a very unusual poster on this site in that I know only know many members of the military, I am the mother of a US Army soldier. He has served one 15 month deployment in Iraq and will go back for a 12 month deployment in January.

I think this ad will be ineffective and I think it will backfire in Moveon because to me it is insulting to my son and the other ADULTS serving in the military. He is not a baby, he is a grown man, and was not ripped from my arms, he joined using his own free will.

I was against the war from the beginning but his life is his to live, not mine, and he did what was right for him. We were against the war from the beginning but when he decided to join the army we supported him, not the war, 100%.

He was only 20 when he joined but he knows things about life that some people never learn. He lost a friend, escaped death many times, was hospitilzed with dysentary from drinking contaminated KBR water or maybe from walking through raw sewage, drank tea with local shieks, and saw progess in his sector. He says that everything he joined the army to do he did in Iraq.

I think any parent of a serving member of the military will be insulted by this ad just as I am. I can't image that it will help the democrats. Oh, and before I am told that I am not a democrat, the first democratic presidential candidate I voted for was Jimmy Carter. I have been a democrat longer than some of the posters here have been alive.

by lucy 2 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 10:58:46 PM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

What a bad ad. Designed to convert the already converted.

by NY Writer on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 12:29:42 AM EST

Stupid Add (none / 0)

Forget that the add is a bit silly, as if that kid is at risk from the Iraq war. The real problem here is that the add is a strategic blunder. It plays right into McCain's hands. McCain wants this election to a referendum on the war. Granted, that is a gamble on his part but he can't exactly win on the economy can he? So the war it is for McCain.

Obama is going to pivot on Iraq until he is almost indistinguishable from McCain on the topic. Then the election will be about the economy and black progress in America, which is where Obama can win.

by dMarx on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 12:48:10 AM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

I agree with you that the media does a poor job of doing unbiased analyzation of issues. For example, they need to do a better job concerning Iraq. They need to dig into the real truth of the matter and not what the President or Move-on says. They should not start out with a bias that anyone is right or that anyone is wrong.

As for this commercial, Chuck Todd said that it was "borderline shameless." Actually, it is just false. I won't go into the 100 year comment, but looking at the facts of the situation, the boy in the clip is not 9 or 10 years old and therefore, even if McCain were to win 2 terms in the White House, the boy would not turn 18 until McCain was long gone from the White House. Secondly, unless the boy enlists, how would McCain get him? Thirdly, if the boy were to turn 18 when McCain was President, is this mother going to chain her son to the refrigerator and deny him the liberty to make his own choices?

Way to go Move-on!

by LesGovt on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 09:35:12 AM EST

Re: Earth To Village - Iraq Isn't A Process Story (none / 0)

I think there are better ways to hit the point. I didn't say I was against ALL ads hitting McCain on the Iraq war.Its just a little bizarre to me. Things are a whole lot different there ,now we are not out of the woods yet ,but it would be great if it can be acknowledged and policy set based on that line of reasoning.

Flashlights rc heli videogame

by blueskyadf on Sat Jun 21, 2008 at 04:08:59 AM EST

You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.