The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton.

I apologize in advance, there will not be a lot of original thought in this diary.  But I just read an incredible article in New York magazine about HRC and the primary and had to share.  It is a very interesting, intimate and in my opinion poignant look at the candidate.  Oh and the pictures are awesome!

Below are some of my favourite bits:

What strikes me as inarguable is that Hillary is today a more resonant, consequential, and potent figure than she has ever been before. No longer merely a political persona, she has been elevated to a rarefied plane in our cultural consciousness. With her back against the wall, she both found her groove and let loose her raging id, turning herself into a character at once awful and wonderful, confounding and inspiring--thus enlarging herself to the point where she became iconic. She is bigger now than any woman in the country. Certainly, she is bigger than her husband. And although in the end she may wind up being dwarfed by Obama, for the moment she is something he is not: fully, poignantly human.

It was Clinton's lack of faith in her political chops that caused her to be so deeply reliant on her chief strategist, Mark Penn. Penn, after all, had helped her win her Senate seat in 2000 when many said that it was impossible, just as he'd aided her husband in securing reelection in 1996 in less-than-promising circumstances. Penn was convinced that Hillary had to run as the candidate of strength; that she should focus relentlessly on her ruggedness and résumé, on her ready-from-day-one-ness. He argued strenuously that the most significant hurdle she would have to surmount was the doubt that a woman was capable of being commander-in-chief. Clinton came to agree, and spent more than a year talking of little else.

Hillary's weaknesses on the stump would have been problematic on their own. But they were exacerbated by the strategy that Penn had concocted for her. It was conventional, safe, inherently conservative, and not obviously wrong. It played to what he and many others, including Bill Clinton, perceived as Hillary's advantages. As the architects of her campaign, they believed they were designing a well-appointed estate in which the candidate would be comfortable--but instead it turned out to be a prison, where the iron bars were the leaden rhetoric of "35 years of experience, "ready to lead," yadda yadda yadda. And although it took Hillary some time to realize that she'd allowed herself to be thus incarcerated, realize it she eventually did. The jailbreak she staged came too late to save her from defeat. But not too late to keep her from emerging as a hell of a politician.

By now, as you'd imagine, Hillary's staff has grown accustomed to outbursts from WJC exquisitely timed to wreak maximum havoc with HRC's plans. But when I wander backstage, I find her people in a blue funk. "It's the last day of his wife's campaign, and he couldn't keep a lid on his emotions for her sake," says one aide. "How much more narcissistic can you get?" I ask how Hillary will handle it. "She used to get upset, but at this point, it's been so bad for so long, I think her attitude is, like, Whatever."

Would that be enough for Hillary? It's possible--but not likely. It's now 36 years since Clinton, while she was working in Texas on George McGovern's campaign, was told by her husband's future chief of staff, Betsey Wright, that she might have what it took to be the country's first female president. Dreams held that long are dreams that die hard, especially if they're held as fiercely and tenaciously as Hillary has always held the ambitions that propel her forward. The endless, brutal, wrenching campaign of 2008 would have wrecked a lesser woman. Hillary tells me she feels just fine: "Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger." Spoken like a true Clinton.

Maybe I don't get out much - but I found this piece to be incredibly revealing.  Thoughts?



Display:


help! i am a political junkie. (2.00 / 6)


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:28:03 AM EST

Don't you find it interesting (2.00 / 2)

that many of the people who only 2 months back spoke about Clinton as if she were the devil itself - now are falling over themselves to sing her praises?  


by The Fat Lady Sings on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:42:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Don't you find it interesting (2.00 / 4)

yeah - amongst some there is a marked change in tone.  but to others that shall not be named, the hate is still alive and well.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:45:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Unfortunately true (2.00 / 2)

There are a number of blogs I just don't bother to visit all that often anymore.  Others, I've decided to take an extended vacation.


by The Fat Lady Sings on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:48:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No hate from me (none / 0)

that's just too strong of an emotion. i may feel like some of what Hillary did this campaign cycle was impolitic, and even immoral == but I also know that her campaign said that they were going to play hardball, and lo they did. Not surprising, but saddening nonetheless.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 10:51:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

not at all (1.40 / 5)

1. Clinton and surrogates have stopped attacking and have conceded.

2. Obama has sought to let bygones be, and many of his supporters have followed suit.

3. Most progressives don't kick people when they are down.


by Is This Snark on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:01:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wonderful article... (2.00 / 1)

I agree that Hillary's status has been elevated more in defeat than in victory.  Some folks have always viewed Hillary as sort of "machiavellian" and calculating.  Mark Penn's poll tested messages fed that perception of her.  

The Hillary we saw in the March-May primaries was the same Hillary I saw back in 1992, when she was stumping for her husband.  I'll never forget when she whipped the crowd into a frenzy over universal healthcare.  Hillary spoke first.  Bill spoke second.  But even after Bill spoke the crowd was chanting "Hillary, Hillary".   My friend said to me on our way out the door " (Bill) Clinton seems like he'll make a good president, but that Hillary is AMAZING"  

I have accepted that Obama is the nominee.  I will vote for him. However, this election has been a huge dissapointment for women, and for all people who have admired Hillary for so long.  I try to get excited that it looks as though we are finally going to have a DEM president, but knowing its Obama and not Hillary,  I just can't.

He just does not inspire me the same way that Hillary did.  The only other time I have been involved in politics was in 1992, and it was because of Hillary then, and it was because of Hillary again this year.  

I have no idea what the future holds for her.  I hope its not to late for her to become President, but maybe there is another role she can play in our American life,  such as "the Mother of Universal Healthcare."  If Obama at least gives her the ability to write the healthcare proposal herself,  and present it to the senate, that would be nice.  

Anyway good diary. As you can see, it got me thinking about Hillary-the-person, rather than Hillary the candidate.  

REC'D


Hillary/Obama 2008
by Sandy1938 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 10:25:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 4)

I thought it was a very glowing piece.

Really interesting read.

I don't think she would be the VP , anymore though.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:32:49 AM EST

i agree... (2.00 / 5)

but as the article states - if asked she can't say no.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:39:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 3)

It was conventional, safe, inherently conservative, and not obviously wrong.

The DLC in a nutshell... which is why they need to get on the bus or just go away.... they are consistent losers and don't even lose fighting for anything...  DLC go away!


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:33:38 AM EST

im not sure i understand your contention? (2.00 / 2)

isnt BC the only 2 term dem president in many, many years?  in any case - the article points out why this was a losing strategy for HER.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:38:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: im not sure i understand your contention? (2.00 / 5)

the thing is that while I love the Clintons, they failed to realize the influence the left wing, especially left wing blogs like DKos and DU have in the Democratic party, something they dind't have in 1992 or 1996. They were marginalized back then after Mondale and Dukakis' losses.


by Lakrosse on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:41:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: im not sure i understand your contention? (2.00 / 1)

Despite what many bloggers think, they are NOT that influential in the big scene (Thank God. It would be dreadful if they were.)  Yes, using the internet well can be helpful to a candidate, but Kos only thinks he was influential because the MSM happened to agree with him about Obama. If the MSM had decided to get behind Hillary Kos would have been utterly marginalized. Kos didn't do anything to convince anyone -- he just rode the common tide.


by Michigoose on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:09:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You're Wrong in One Huge Respect (2.00 / 1)

Funding campaigns has evolved into a bottom-up proposition.  That comes from the Internet and whether you want to acknowledge it or not, Obama's money machine began to roll when left leaning blogs hopped aboard.  It's got little to do with one person's ego, but a lot to do with reality.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 09:02:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Lamont would beg to differ (none / 0)

Obama continues his drive to coopt fundamental portions of the progressive movement.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 10:54:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: im not sure i understand your contention? (2.00 / 1)

How many congressional and senate seats did we lose during that term?  In fact, those two elections were the ONLY ones the DLC won in the last 16 years (in 2006, we moved away from wishy-washiness and actually stood for something... except for Harold Ford... who, like all other DLC'ers... lost)

The DLC just plain sucks!  If they stood up for something ANYThING, at least you could justify their pathetic showing at the polls...  Except they stand for nothing, which is why they lose election after election....  they are too afraid to take a stand on anything...


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:42:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mike, Lets Not get carried way (2.00 / 1)

LordMike,

Lets not get carried away now.

2/3 of All current Democratic Senators are indentified with the DLC.

Close to 50% of all current House Democrats are either DLC or Blue Dogs.

2/3 of All current Democratic Governors are DLC.

Several DLC affiliated Senators & several DLC Affiliated Governors endorsed Barack Obama in the primary. That just showed that these politicians are democrats first. There are many groups within the democratic party like the progressive wing.

But to conclude that the DLC group is dead or have no power is exaggerating things a bit. You may wish that but the reality is very different.

90% of Red & Purple states today that have Democratic Senators or Governors attend DLC meetings & policy agendas.

Will there influence diminish under a President Obama ? Maybe, Yes, very possible. But its no different than when Bill Clinton was President & the Liberal wing of the party had less influence in the Oval office.

Politics is cyclical.

How can you get rid of Centrist/Moderate Democrats when there are more elected moderate democratic Governors & Senators than Liberal Governors or Senators? . Take out all these centrist/moderate dems & we would not have a majority in either the State House or the Senate.

How can you get rid of centrist/moderate House members across red & purple districts? Take them all out & we would lose the majority.

A number of so called Centrist democrats endorsed Obama in the primary. No need to be bashing them.


by libdemusa on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 10:33:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

To me, the DLC (none / 0)

Is an idea that (somewhat) worked within a particular Zeitgeist, that time in the early/mid-90's to around 2002 or so. When the economy was still good and before all the wars.


Hillary is voting for Obama, so why aren't you?
by BrighidG on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:05:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: To me, the DLC (none / 0)

I agree.  It was never perfect, but for a short time it was the best we could hope for (which says a lot about what we let the media do to Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, and Michael Dukakis).  But at least since 9/11, we could have and should have been demanding more.  Now, it looks like we finally are.


by ProgressiveDL on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:13:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: im not sure i understand your contention? (none / 0)

The second section of quotes weakly supports what I have been saying all along.  That, she felt,  she had to move away from some traditional women traits to appear strong enough to be President.  Rather than embracing the advice of people like Benazir Bhutto, who urged her to be like a woman and mother.  And in doing so misjudeged where the nation is now, or at least Democratic Primary voters.


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 10:52:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 7)

Who was the last two term president we heard as democrats ?

Just curious.

Yeah right , William Jefferson Clinton.

How did liberal candidates do .

Lets see Mondale , Dukakis , John Kerry .

The list is long and there record is 0 - 3 in favor of the opposing team.

By the way Obama is running as the " post partisan candidate ".

Doesn't exactly sound like a profile in standing for something. ( DLC on steroids if you ask me )


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:41:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 1)

How did DLC candidates do in the 1994 midterms...  oh, yeah, don't forget about those... and 1996, and 1998, and 2000, and 2002, and 2004....  yeah, the DLC are real winners all right... the DLC is the group that put us in the congressional minority (Terry McCaullife pouring cement in the grave during his horrendous DNC chairmanship).  It's only after 2006 that we actually stood up for something and won something back!

The only loser in 2006?  Why DLC chair Harold Ford.  No surprise there....

There was a time when the DLC actually stood for something.. health care, gays in the military, etc.  But those days were before "triangulation" that managed to get Clinton Re-elected and lose everything since...  It's time for the DLC either to return to their roots and go away.  They simply suck.  how can ANYONE defend their record after winning only 2 elections in 8 tries... That's not even a good batting average...


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:46:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 4)

Harold Ford had a shot in Tennessee precisely because he was " DLC " or because he held the positions he did.

It must be something in the air here , we breed our politicians that way .

That is why Clinton cleaned the clock in this neighborhood , a liberal candidate stands no chance here .

Al Gore couldn't even win here .

Its tough to win statewide as a democrat , talk less of a liberal one.

Ford is not a good example because he came close to winning because of his " DLC ' status.

By the way majority of the districts that were overturned the house are filled with DLC type folks.

We have the majority largely because of this " DLc types ".


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:55:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 1)

Harold Ford could have won Tennessee if he didn't completely pander to Republicans... let's face it, if you have a choice between Republican and Republican lite, the full flavored version will always win.

I'm represented by Kucinich... knowing him, you'd think that I must live in some latte neighborhood eating sushi all day.... hardly... this place is poor, white, working class, conservative as hell that voted overwhelmingly for Hillary... so, how is Kucinich so popular here?  He's supposed to be a latte liberal, right?  Eating Sushi with Sean Penn at campaign events (which he did)?  How can he win in this very blue dog district?  

'Cos he's not afraid to stand for what he believes... he also makes sure to stand for his constituents... standing in picket lines with them... making sure their needs are taken care of... that's how you win support in a conservative district, while still being a liberal.

The DLC model was once noble.  They had a strong platform that was based on results-oriented policy.  But they got so spooked by 1994, they suddenly decided to just endorse and validate Republican policy as a matter of course... hoping to just smooth out the edges...  as time went on, they became even more weak at the knees and just would sit and worry (like Rahm Emmanuel) that we might "offend" republicans, so they would stand for nothing and just hope that everything worked out in the end...  It's why Tammy Duckworth lost... $3 million in her campaign for nothing... Why?  'Cos she had no coherent position on the war that took her legs...  As a voter, I'd look at that and say WTF?  THE WAR TOOK YOUR LEGS AND YOU HAVE NO POSITION ON IT?  

That's why the DLC either has to return to its Gary Hart roots or just has to go...  They are an incompetent organization that is not ready to win in the 21st century.  Republican ideology is in the tanker... there is no reason to endorse or validate it like the DLC does...  Every candidate that has won in the last decade is the candidate that actually stands for something... anything...  the DLC hasn't done that in a long, long time... it's why their philosophy consistently loses, their latest victim being Hillary Clinton.


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:10:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lord Mike (none / 0)

East Side here in Stephanie Tubbs Jones' district (blech)...


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 09:05:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lord Mike (none / 0)

Oh, yeah... I lived there most of my life... Her insulting, condescending, and patronizing attitude towards Obama was disgusting, especially since her district voted 80% for him.  She is absolutely ripe for a primary challenge...  She has completely lost touch with her district.

And IIRC, she wasn't so great in 2004, either... with her whining about Bush voters here (instead of doing something about it)...


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 09:51:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lord Mike (none / 0)

We are in sympatico, my friend.  When I looked at her name on the ballot this past winter, I left it blank.  I'm hoping someone will challenge her in the 2010 primary.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 11:16:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (none / 0)

Yeah, but Gore did not win Tennessee. If he had...


Barack Obama is my President
by Jeter on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:50:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (none / 0)

1994 - I don't know how old you are, but I remember all of the dems that got kicked out due to corruption.

democrats are not immune - even progressive ones

2006 - blue dog dems - they are worse, imho, then DLC.  They are conservative democrats, not centrists


by colebiancardi on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 06:31:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 6)

The problem with the DLC is that it took a strategy that worked well for a single politician and attempted to make it the blueprint for an entire party.


by rfahey22 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:51:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I would rec this a hundred times if I could (none / 0)


Hillary is voting for Obama, so why aren't you?
by BrighidG on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:09:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (none / 0)

Doesn't exactly sound like a profile in standing for something.

you obviously haven't been listening... it's been so refreshing for a democratic presidential candidate actually stand up for Democratic values instead of trying to sound like a Republican.


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:52:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 2)

I would say no one stood up for democratic values in the primary process than Hillary Clinton and you clearly thought she was DLC.

So clearly DLC do stand for something despite your claim to the contrary.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:58:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (none / 0)

What Democratic values did HRC stand up for that BO didn't?  There were a few times she floated to the right (gas tax, guns, hawkish toward Iran and the Middle East)...


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:08:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 1)

Exactly... she wasn't exactly beating the progressive drum after March, especially, but the HRC supporters seem to forget the Fox News campaign strategy post March...


It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)
by LordMike on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:16:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (none / 0)

Stood for democratic values during the Primary? By reneging on her agreement regarding FL and MI? By demanding that unfair voteing practices be given to her total? Throwing out votes from 11 caucus states so that she could try to claim a majority in the popular vote? By saying the Republican candidate was better equiped to lead the country than her fellow Democratic Senator?

Not looking for an argument here but try to stick to the facts.


by Grissom1001 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 10:38:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 1)

How many DLC presidents have we had: 1

Why, that's a good reason to keep an idea around. Because it worked once in a particular Zeitgeist with a particular candidate.

Brilliant.


Hillary is voting for Obama, so why aren't you?
by BrighidG on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:06:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (none / 0)

It gave us the only Dem president we've had in forty years.  And yet you think it would have been smarter to change to an untried and untested other plan?  

We have yet to see if Obama's plan will result in success.  The fact that he's still in a really close race with McCain, who should be well behind by now, makes me wonder about Obama's "brilliant" plan.


by Michigoose on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:13:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (none / 0)

No, but there was no good reason for so many Democratic politicians to copy Bill's triangulation.


by ProgressiveDL on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:16:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 1)

I like Bill but he was really a very right of center president. Most of his biggest 'accomplishments' were very Republican: NAFTA, welfare 'reform', defense of marriage act, don't ask - don't tell. I really want a Democratic president that stands for Democratic ideals.
by Gene In PA on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:20:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 1)

The only Dem president we've had in forty years?

Last I checked, 1977 was 31 years ago.


Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.
by mistersite on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 08:29:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 1)

Hell, 1968 was 40 years ago.  


McCain = Iraq. John McCain = overturn Roe.
by PantsB on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 09:27:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What's untested? The DNC? (none / 0)

A non-DLC version of the Democratic, like the one that existed for over a hundred years before and existed while the DLC did?

What are you even talking about?


Hillary is voting for Obama, so why aren't you?
by BrighidG on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 05:38:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 1)

Bill was a mediocer persident AT BEST with, NAFTA, and caving in to the G.O.P. on capital gains and dividends tax cuts (Bill's cuts were even bigger than Duhbya's).

Bill Clinton was nothing to crow about.


It's time to restore balance and fairness to our economy,... It's time to stop giving tax cuts to corporations that ship jobs overseas... - Barack Obama
by Lefty Coaster on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 08:56:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (1.00 / 2)

Add his leaving a stain in the Oval office and one begins to see why the middle aged women supported Obama. The over 65 women supported Clinton. There is a pattern here that is generational.
Women my Mothers age were more apt to ignore husbands who wandered while women my age? Who supported Obama over Clinton by 17%, learned that we did not have to stay in a marriage that was abuse filled.

I think that cost Hillary even though it should not have mattered.


by Grissom1001 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 10:42:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 1)

TR for the infamous "stain" remark.

only republicans do that.  And what are BC's approval ratings?  Higher than ever.

and where do you get that "middle-age" women supported Obama?  A lot of women over the age of 40 supported Clinton.


by colebiancardi on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 12:28:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 4)

Post-March, she became what Obama was at the beginning, someone with a larger than life personality and presence.

I thought the passage about her and Obama meeting at the AIPAC event was the most interesting part of the article, assuming that Heilman is describing how the encounter went down accurately.


by Blazers Edge on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:39:13 AM EST

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 2)

yeah - its like fly on the wall stuff.  i love it!


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:41:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 2)

He may be full of it though; from the picture that was taken of the two at AIPAC, it seemed that she was doing the talking while Obama was doing the listening.

I have a hard time seeing Hillary hugging the wall out of defence to Obama and an even harder time seeing Obama asserting his presence over Clinton.  It seems contradictory to what we saw during the primary season but then again, we don't know what was said there or at their special meeting or in subsequent phone calls.  Everything is speculation.


by Blazers Edge on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:45:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

i believe it. (2.00 / 2)

everyone loves a winner...  although i saw that picture too, and agree with your assertion.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:48:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (1.00 / 1)

The powers that knew what would happen if Hillary had won.
The GOP was waiting to attack her and use Bill's lib. and museumn to do it with. That and the stories had begun to surface of other women the last 7 years.
The one thing that helped more than any other to propell her to the position she was in was the one thing that would have handed the election to McCain. Bill Clinton and his inability to act like an adult.
by Grissom1001 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 10:45:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Wow (2.00 / 5)

This was along the lines of what I typed up a few days ago:


The jailbreak she staged came too late to save her from defeat. But not too late to keep her from emerging as a hell of a politician.

I would say that even in defeat she is among the most powerful members of the democratic party, even people who aren't necessary her fans can see that she can reach people other politicians can't.

She found a tremendous strength, it is unfortunate that Mark Penn stayed on her campaign for so long.

(I am kicking around a diary comparing that moment (not firing Mark Penn after New Hampshire) to the death of Pericles)


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:40:12 AM EST

Re: Wow (none / 0)

I would say you just plagarized this article in your last diary , or was it the other way round lol....

You basically have the same idea.


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:44:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I didn't read that article (2.00 / 2)

until CG posted it, but I guess the theme is fairly clear, The article went more in depth with quips while I went with data but I am guessing the idea is clear to those who look objectively.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:54:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I didn't read that article (2.00 / 2)

yep , I largely agree with the piece and your diary


Educated in a small town Taught to fear Jesus in a small town Used to daydream in that small town Another born romantic that's me.
by lori on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:06:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Imagine if Obama had lost (2.00 / 3)

and how funny would it have been had McCain started kissing Obama's ass.

It's almost surreal to believe how different HRC is today from the HRC a year ago.  Imagine if she had dispatched Obama on February 5th, she probably would not be 1/2 as popular as she is today.


by Blazers Edge on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:48:51 AM EST

well the premise of the article... (2.00 / 3)

is that she became a MUCH better politician and frankly iconic figure due to the primary (and i guess this would include her loss).


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:52:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I was hoping for Romney (2.00 / 3)

just so I could hear Obama say to Romney "you have no foreign policy experience whatsoever."  I think I would have blown a gasket.

There's no question that she's now an icon for the party and has established an identity that is solely separate from her husband's.  I'm looking forward to more of the Obama-Hillary drama these next coming months.  These two icons really took the nation on quite a ride.


by Blazers Edge on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:57:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

what an exciting ride its been! (2.00 / 1)


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:03:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (1.80 / 5)

She REALLY found her voice in Pennsylvania. That's when she said, fuck it, I'm doing this my way. If Hillary had hired ANYBODY but Mark Penn she most probably would of won the thing. It also speaks volumes of Obama that he went toe to toe with such a fordimable force and came out on top.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:52:05 AM EST

well said! (2.00 / 1)

although i would say that a marked change was seen after ohio and texas.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:53:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You are probably (2.00 / 3)

right, I couldn't see the full effect of her change until May, but I knew it was there in PA.

Of course I was biased in the primary so my view wasn't objective.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:56:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well said! (1.66 / 3)

I'm really looking forward to seeing her in the news again. After so many months wanting her to go away I can't wait until she gets back. Hillary is not just another surrogate. This is Hillary Clinton we are talking about.

Going with a basketball analogy now. It's like hating Paul Pierce if you are a Lakers fan because he KILLS YOU and then he gets traded to your team.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:00:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

i dont know much about basketball... (2.00 / 1)

but i totally get your analogy.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:06:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Barack Obama as the 97 Arizona team (none / 0)

Sorry... just going with the analogy. Go Pierce! Win that championship!


by Mobar on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 11:24:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well said! (2.00 / 1)

What's interesting to me is that when she "found her voice" toward the second half of the primary season, she developed a widening and increasingly intense following, but the same voice finding caused a marked increase in sentiment among those who opposed her by backing Obama. While I can certainly understand the appeal she had as a tenacious political fighter, some of her campaign strategies as a fighter drove people away. I do think she would have won the nomination had she come out of the gate swinging, and I think any future political opponent is going to be in deep trouble.


by glopster on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:09:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well said! (none / 0)

I wonder.  Her errors weren't so much about messaging as they were tactical - no plan after Feb. 5, failure to contest caucus states, no money, etc.  It's not clear that she ever learned from these mistakes.  After all, Penn was demoted, but he was never fired, and the states she won favored her demographically anyway.  I understand that it's a comforting narrative, but I'm not sure that it's accurate.


by rfahey22 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:15:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 4)

actually, i would consider that a low point in her messaging. Her slide in the polls there was halted--rather jarringly--by the emergence of both Rev. Wright and the bitter comments.

It was her campaign's tactics in PA (carried over to IN and NC) that were the most disappointing to me, much more so than anything said by Bill in SC, Ferraro or the 3 a.m. ad.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:57:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (1.50 / 2)

All that was going on too. Deploying Bill to rural america and going with a more populist message was genius. I don' fault her for using Wright. It's politics. The bitter thing was lame as hell though. Obama engaged in similiar tactics. Again, it's politics. This was a rather tame primary.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:07:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 4)

She didn't use Wright. She wisely sat back and let the media do her dirty work--at least until the PA debate when she inexplicably dove into the mud upon Charlie Gibson's invitation.

But as for the bitter comment, anytime you attack another Democrat as a latte-sipping elitist, we have problems. I said it was a low point in her messaging because she didn't seem to know how to handle her good fortune at that point. The beer-and-a-shot thing, her appreciation for guns, having surrogates talk about her testicles...all those things were bizarrely overcalculated.

That was what troubled me about her candidacy. Much like John Kerry, it seemed she tried on campaign personae like a suit. "I'm a populist now, so I better be reeeeally populist! Economists are elitists!" It's like she never got comfortable in her own skin. Even when people were fawning over how much of a populist she had become, giving speeches on pickup beds, it still seemed that she was merely acting a role.

That's not to say she isn't pretty liberal or a populist, just that it seemed she had trouble communicating that without exaggerated roleplaying and props.

Oh, and the two commander in chief threshold comments were just plain shit.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:25:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

did you read the article? (none / 0)

she both talks about the CIC and her discomfort in being a 'figure'


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:32:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: did you read the article? (2.00 / 1)

Yes, and the CIC section refers only to her own campaign strategy, not her bolstering of McCain at another Democrat's expense.

I think it's important to note that her "newfound voice" that the pundits all laud was made possible only by the fact that she was losing. In other words, the situation made the candidate, not the other way around. Being behind automatically bestowed upon her the "gritty fighter" label. Everyone seemed to like Hillary the Underdog. I question whether they would have felt the same affection for her had she been leading the whole way.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:48:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

no. they certainly wouldn't have felt the same. (none / 0)

way about her and that's the whole point.  non?


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:57:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no. they certainly wouldn't have felt the sam (2.00 / 1)

To me it is, but I don't think that was the article's point. Frankly, I find it to be rather, um, generous to Clinton.

I'm tired of reading these soft-focus pieces that always blame her loss on Mark Penn or Bill's outbursts. It never has anything to do with her or her decisions. Instead, they cast her as someone so gosh-darn pure in her love of policy that she's just too good for the crass world of campaigning. (And implied within this is the corollary--that Obama's some glib snake-oil statesman who doesn't share her love of actual Democratic policy.)

In other words, we're to believe she's the ideal president led astray by bad advice, a loose cannon husband and prevalent sexism.

Of course, the media never got the anti-Iraq movement in the first place, so it's no surprise they fail to see the role her vote played in her loss. Or that, y'know, Obama might've been a really good candidate himself.

I think it's an obviously troubling catch-22 if a candidate can only be truly liked if she loses. That doesn't make her quite the viable candidate.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:14:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

that's the problem here... (2.00 / 3)

you a are framing this as a comparison piece.  its not.  to me nowhere is anything implied negatively about BO in this article in fact i dont believe he is mentioned much at all.  

and that's precisely the point of the article - how her loss affected her as a politician and icon.  hence the title.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:22:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Totally argee (1.50 / 2)

IMO this is all nonsense.

She never found her voice, she resorted to dirty tactics, dishonest rhetoric, and victimology 101.

Why and where this earned her support is a "Post unity" discussion I guess.

In the so called crucial big states like CA and NY her popularity fell when she employed the tactics everyone on the unity train now describes as coming into her own.


by Is This Snark on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:34:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (1.66 / 3)

She did what she had to do. Look I agree with almost everything that you just wrote but they were running for POTUS. Maybe it because I'm used to down and dirty politics as the norm ( born and raised in Puerto Rico) so maybe it's just me who finds her attacks pretty tame. Barack and Hillary BOTH slung mud. It's what you do when you run for office.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:51:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (1.00 / 1)

I've voted twice for her in New York but never thought of supporting her this time around. Never did warm up to her though. Just wanted to make it clear I'm not a Hillary fan by any means but gotta give credit when it's due.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:55:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Good observation (none / 0)

To drag GENDER into this, I think women politicians will struggle for some time to find their "true selves" on the campaign trail because they suffer for role models.  
From my perspective Clinton veered across the road wildly (but managed to stay out of the ditches and keep up her speed) seeking an electable public persona.  Sometimes she tried too hard to either soften or harden herself and only gained real momentum when she was herself.
The shot drinking, gun loving Hillary moments were hard to watch.
Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 09:01:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (none / 0)

I'd agree.  Living in Pennsylvania, I thought that Hillary ran the worst, most divisive campaign.  My wife who defended Hillary to anyone's jokes or criticism for years, got so turned off by her rhetoric here that she ended up supporting Obama. The last straw was a flyer that we got in the mail that only had pictures of Obama on it and lines from his "bitter" gaff but nothing at all about Hillary and only a little line on one side that said "Hillary for President"  

I hadn't told my wife at that point that I was rooting for Obama because I knew that she really "wanted the girl to win" (her phrasing) and I didn't want to push her either way.  She surprised me by saying how mad she was at Hillary for being so negative and that she was supporting Obama.


by Gene In PA on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:33:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Weird (2.00 / 1)

PA is my home state, I had been an Obama supporter for quite some time but seeing her tactics in PA was what first gave me a truly negative impression of her.

Gleefully taking advantage of Bittergate and fanning the Wright flames was just too over the edge for me, probably because like a lot of Obama supporters I knew she had already lost at that point, despite the media propping her up.

Even light attacks on Obama were attacks on Obama from a hopeless position.  If she had a decent chance to take the nomination at that point I would not have cared.


by libertyleft on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:08:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

i take it from your comment that (2.00 / 1)

im guessing you didnt read the article...  its pretty clear in discussing this notion of 'when she lost'


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:11:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: i take it from your comment that (none / 0)

No, I didn't read all seven boring pages of Clinton worship.  What I did read was the polls and the delegate counts that made it clear she was out of it long before PA.


by libertyleft on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:31:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

you're funny! (2.00 / 3)

so you've entered a diary that is about an article that everyone is discussing and you don't even bother to read it?  and instead are trying to start flame wars?  lol


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:37:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you're funny! (none / 0)

I read the snippets.  Don't take it as an insult against Hillary, I wouldn't read seven boring pages of Obama praise either.


by libertyleft on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:42:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Weird (1.00 / 1)

She gave me a negative impression as well. That doesn't mean I didn't respect her or notice the loyal and intense following she was amassing. Although pissed at the time I now see the value in having gone the distance with Clinton. Didn't McCain use the "bitter" remark in Penn and got mostly laughs from the pundits? Wright will barely register in the G.E. Heck, the second time he came out for all the worrying and fearing the worse the voters proved they didn't give a shit anymore. Hillary made Barack a MUCH better politician and it's naive to think otherwise.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:21:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Weird (none / 0)

Republicans are EXPECTED to attack democrats in any way possible.  Attacks are taken much more seriously when they come from the same party, even seemingly light comments can be huge attacks in that environment, and Clinton did not take that into account in her actions.


by libertyleft on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:29:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He backed into the nomination. (none / 0)

Which is why he's only running 49-46% against a tired (and somewhat confused) old man.


by BJJ Fighter on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:22:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He backed into the nomination. (none / 0)

and your consolation prize is that you get to spend the rest of your life imagining all kinds of fantasy scenarios in which Hillary would win 70% of the vote and carry 46 states.


by Johnny Gentle Famous Crooner on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:27:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He backed into the nomination. (none / 0)

Well, she automatically tops out at 49% at best because of her high negatives.  People don't normally vote for politicians they actively (and irrationally) dislike.


by ProgressiveDL on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:24:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Talk to me when your boy tops 50%..... (none / 0)


by BJJ Fighter on Thu Jun 19, 2008 at 12:47:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He backed into the nomination. (none / 0)

That's winning right?


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:29:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You wish (none / 0)

A tired and confused old man who is also a war hero and whom the media loves and never, ever, ever questions.


Hillary is voting for Obama, so why aren't you?
by BrighidG on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 03:15:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You wish (none / 0)

Well, Obama got the same treatment in the Primary as the media's darling while Clinton was vilified.  There's a certain poetic justice in Obama finding himself on the other side of the softball/hardball pitch.


by Michigoose on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 05:20:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You wish (none / 0)

I don't understand how Obama "got a pass" and Hillary "was vilified" after Wright, Ayers, bittergate, the flag pin issue, proudgate (Michelle's gaffe), and Muslim insinuations.  All while Hillary only got hammered for Tuzla, the story about the pregnant woman, and the gas tax holiday.  There was sexism pointed at Hillary, but that wasn't "vilifying" her.


by ProgressiveDL on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 07:26:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Wright issue hasn't even been explored. (none / 0)

you apparently have no idea what's in store.


by BJJ Fighter on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 11:28:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Put up or shut up (none / 0)


Hillary is voting for Obama, so why aren't you?
by BrighidG on Wed Jun 18, 2008 at 05:36:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

HRC supporters are individuals, not sheep (none / 0)

Hillary Clinton is supporting Obama....I may come to an entirely different decision on how I vote.

This idea the Obam-orons have--of people following their candidate in lockstep--is just further evidence that they aren't used to thinking as individuals, and they sure as hell haven't thought through issues.


by BJJ Fighter on Thu Jun 19, 2008 at 12:46:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He backed into the nomination. (none / 0)

You mean he's running three points ahead of a man who has had a three month head start as his party's nominee? A man who gets so much favorable media coverage that you'd think he owned the networks? Your right, it's over.


by JENKINS on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 04:01:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (1.75 / 4)

Certainly, she is bigger than her husband.

Never thought of that. So true though.


We want to see Ivana [Trump] because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture. - Sarah Palin
by spacemanspiff on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 01:55:00 AM EST

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (none / 0)

I would argue that HRC was always bigger than her husband, it's just now so obvious anyone can see it.  
Even back during the Clinton Administration she seemed the smarter of the two, more responsible for his successes than he was himself.  
She saved his ass at the end of his term in her stoic measured responses to "The Scandal" -- a trial by public fire that would have tested even the strongest public figures out there.  Where most folks would have slunk off into obscurity after that,  HRC just kept plugging away at her own goals.  
now that Bill has served as such a cartoonish public liability on the campaign trail -- popping off and enjoying himself far too much for anyone's taste -- finally I hope she has emerged from behind the weaker man she spent the better part of her life promoting.
Sexism is real.
by grassrootsorganizer on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 09:09:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Saddest thing I read all primary (2.00 / 1)

was some friend of the Clintons talking about how Hillary was always good at protecting Bill from his weaknesses, but that he wasn't capable of doing the same for her. Can't remember where I read it, and of course the person was speaking anonymously. It made me sad because in spite of policy and tactical differences I've had with the Clintons over the years, I've always believed that there's is a sincere and committed partnership. That Bill couldn't reciprocate for her after all she's done for him seems unjust. I know, that's life. I know plenty of people who think the Clinton marriage is a mercenary cold-blooded convenience, but I've never bought that.

I do think Hillary Clinton has the potential to affect more long term positive change for the American people than her husband did. And I sincerely hope she does.


by Mobar on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 11:43:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I cannot... (2.00 / 4)

....even describe the 180 I did in regards to HRC...When she was campaigning in my home state (PA) it was like "wow" where is HRC and what have you done with her.  A truly remarkable individual and someone who now stands on her own merits, she has successfully shed the "Bill Clinton's wife" title.  I am truly impressed with that woman.


A useless "Community Organizer" from Pennsylvania as noted by Republicans, Rudy Giuliani and Sarah Palin
by hootie4170 on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:02:58 AM EST

Re: The Fall and Rise of Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 2)

the whole article is a gem. its hella long, but its high quality.


by alyssa chaos on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:11:19 AM EST

How impressive is it (2.00 / 2)

that she has been able to "vanish" for about a week?  It's almost as if nobody has seen her outside of Bill and Chelsea.  You would think that someone would have been able to snap a shot of her given that the press has been outside of her house for over a year now.

I think even the most diehard of Obama supporters would acknowledge that we all need Hillary to return to our lives, just for the purpose of increasing our blood pressure.  People are getting bored by Obama-McCain.  Nobody seems to give one flying shit about McCain.


by Blazers Edge on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:17:30 AM EST

BE - i love your observations! (2.00 / 1)

and i totally 100% agree with your comment.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Tue Jun 17, 2008 at 02:19:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]