MyDD :: WI delegate bounced from National Convention

WI delegate bounced from National Convention

by mishiem, Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:14:05 AM EST

Wisconsin democrats voted yesterday to strip Debra Bartoshevich's status as a delegate to the national convention late Friday evening. DNC and state party rules state that delegates that oppose the party's nominee will not be permitted to attend party convention as a delegate.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-ap-wi-delegatedumped,0,749781.story

This is one of the strangest stories that I've ever heard, especially considering that Obama won Wisconsin with overwhelming margins. I was honored to be elected to serve as a delegate for John Kerry in 2004 and for the first time, I was able to view the convention not as a spectator but as a participant. At no time did I consider voting against my party's nominee, in fact, if I did, I would fear the backlash I would receive when I returned home. She was chosen to support her party, not the status quo. I'm not familiar with Ms. Bartoshevich's background but she obviously lacks political acumen. This is our year and there is no room for games and fake protests on the convention floor. This is not 1968.

Check out this pearl of wisdom from Bartoshevich -

"But Bartoshevich told the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, as reported on its Web site Friday, that Clinton was treated unfairly by the party and she has deep reservations about Obama's experience, so she'll vote for McCain"

<"Those comments prompted Democrats to support a complaint asking the national party's credentials committee to refuse to seat her at the convention. The resolution said Bartoshevich violated a Democratic National Committee rule requiring delegates to support the party's nominee and not any other candidate.

If the move is approved, Democratic aides said she would be replaced by an alternate that had already been elected.

He said he was furious that Bartoshevich had given Republicans an opening to embarrass the Democrats.">

Another faux-Clinton supporter who actually believes that since Clinton was victim to some sexist coverage, Obama is to blame. Real Clinton supporters believe in the issues that she championed and support similiar candidates.

In an attempt to embarrass Obama, the republicans will most likely invite Bartoshevich to attend the RNC's event in Minneapolis. And we have all beared witness to many stunning displays of sexism courtesy of the republican party. If she feels uncomfortable voting for Obama, how will she feel supporting a party platform that is opposed to equal pay for women, Roe vs. Wade, and permitting women in combat. In fact, the only women that she will see at the republican convention are the plants that they will use on stage for the cameras. Republicans aren't exactly know for their diversity.

We need to take a stand against this false narrative in the media that neglects to report the lack of support that McCain is receiving in his party. In the latter primaries, McCain was still losing significant support and he was the only candidate on the ballot still running. No wonder they are losing readership.

John McCain losing the support of Republicans with each passing moment.

Tags: republicans, media, mccain, clinton, obama, dnc, convention, rnc (all tags)

Permalink :: 85 Comments :: Post a Comment

"Why is Chelsea so Ugly?" (2.00 / 5)

"Because Janet Reno is her father!"

She's voting for THAT John McCain?

Oh... OK...

by Lieber on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:17:55 AM EST

I forgot McSame said that. (2.00 / 3)

by mishiem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:25:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Why is Chelsea so Ugly?" (none / 0)

Anyone got THAT in video... If we can get that one and the one where he calls Cindy a C---.... Those have Youtube all over them.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:55:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (2.00 / 7)

Fantastic. I called for exactly this move yesterday when I first heard the story, and it's good to see the Democratic Party is starting to develop the inklings of a spine.

This woman embarrassed the entire party. She embarrassed Dean, she embarrassed Obama, and worst yet (and most ironic) she embarrassed Hillary Clinton, who practically got down on bended knee and begged her supporters not to vote for McCain.

This delegate knew the rules, or at least she should have. She chose to blatantly violate the rules. As an Obama supporter, I say that had Hillary run, and then an Obama delegate complained about racism and threatened to vote for McCain, I would have said "throw the bum out" just as quickly.

by Rictor Rockets on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:34:28 AM EST

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (1.16 / 6)

so anybody who disagrees with the nominee should simply be kicked out? Is that what I'm hearing? made to disappear? hmmmmmm...........

by Ignored and Disgusted on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:58:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (2.00 / 4)

Disagrees? No...

Actively works against and doesn't support the nominee? Absolutely...

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:01:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (none / 0)

"DNC and state party rules state that delegates that oppose the party's nominee will not be permitted to attend party convention as a delegate."

Obama won't be the nominee until a vote is taken at the convention. How can someone be bounced for for not supporting the nominee when the nominee has not yet been elected?

by jrole on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:57:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (2.00 / 3)

so when will McLame be the Dem nominee?

by zerosumgame on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:34:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (none / 0)

The devil here is in the details. It doesn't state that the candidate must be selected in orderfor the person not to be allowed to attend the convention. It says those that do not support the nominee will not be allowed to attend the convention.

This person has declared support for the other party's nominee, regardless of who becomes the nominee at the convention, this person has violated the rule and thus should not be allowed to represent the people that voted for a Democratic candidate at the convention if they are not willing to vote for the candidate decided by the convention in favore of any other candidate.

If we interpret the rule the way you seem to be impying, there would never be a reason to bounce anyone as the nominee is always selected at the convention, and since this is about going to said convention (before) the nominee is selected that is nonsensical. There would, hense, be no reason to even have the rule with regards to attending the convention in the first place. But we DO have the rule and as such it applies to everyone.

Regardless of their first choice, they must be willing to support the democratic nominee (presumtive or yet to be determined) over any other party candidate.

Good for the WI Democratic party for bouncing this persona non grata.

by Why Not on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:22:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (2.00 / 1)

The devil here isn't in the details, it's in your making up the rules to suit your candidate.

The rule do NOT, as you claim, state that a delegate must "be willing to support the democratic nominee (presumtive or yet to be determined) over any other party candidate."

They DO state that "those that do not support the nominee will not be allowed to attend the convention."

How can you remove a delgate for not supporting a nominee whrn the nominee has not yet been elected?

You again mistate the facts when claiming that the delegate "has declared support for the other party's nominee, regardless of who becomes the nominee at the convention..." That's NOT true. She declared support for the other party's candidate IF Obama is elected the nominee.

by jrole on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:23:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (none / 0)

What would be the point of having a rule about who can attend the convention if the rule only applies to what the convetion is there to determine.

You make no sense.

The rule is for those who oppose the party's nominee, Be that Clinton, Obama, Edwards, Al Gore, or Kucinich (Mind you, that by the rules any of these people could still become the nominee).

A person who says they will vote for McCain under any circumstances is a person actively promoting McCain and has no place at the Democratic convention. This is especially true for somone pledging to vote and work against the presumtive nominee.

She declared her support for McCain. She predicated it on the condition that Obama was the nominee, but that is still a violation of the rule and she should not be allowed to go tot he convention.

by Why Not on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:08:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (2.00 / 1)

I've only pointed aout what the rule as written states. I don't understand how you can claim that I make no sense.

The rule may make no sense but that doesn't give you or anybody else the right to interpret it in order to please yourself. That is, in effect, making up rules as you go along. In the past six months the DNC has already convoluted and rewritten rules such that, I believe, their actions will come back to haunt them someday.

The Obama campaign was supposedly about inclusion and bringing people together. Yet, I can't pick up a newspaer without reading about the attemted purging of delegates. First it was Sen. Boren, then other Red State Dems from overwhelmingly Clinton districts. Also in Florida where more than a few Clinton delegates are having to fight to keep their credentials. ( A state where, if the rules had been followed - Obama would be denied any delegates at all.) Now it's the delegate on this thread.

In practical terms, it's beat to remember the old saying, "you catch more bees with honey". Purging delegates can only lead to losing the support of those purged as well as their friends and supporters. The Dems should win in Nov. If they lose it will be due tothe hubris and arrogance thus far demonstrated by the DNC and the Obama campaign and it's supporters.

If this woman is replaced, I'm curious, will she be replaced with a Hillary or an Obama alternate.

by jrole on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 05:19:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Replaced w a Clinton alternate (none / 0)

who in turn will be replaced as an aternate with the 3d place finisher among wouldbe female Clinton alternates at the 1st CD caucus, which qualified 2 Clinton delegates and 2 alternates.

Democratic Candidate, US Senate, Wisconsin 2012

by benmasel on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 07:50:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (none / 0)

Obviously you don't understand how Convention and Roberts Rules are run.

Obama is the presumptive nominee, but is not the nominee because he does not have the required number of pledged delegates to be such.

She could cast her vote for Hillary or Edwards or any of the other DEM's that were running, or she could have put up a name for consideration at the Convention on the floor in front of 15,000+ delegates and party officals. However, that person would have had to be an independent OR a Democrat. John McCain because he belongs to another political party (unless he renounced his party affiliation) would not be able to be put forward.

And when she was talking about McCain, she was talking about voting for him with her personal vote.

Is this lady a freak? Hell yes. If she felt this way, she should quit her delegate position and allow an alternate to fill her position, or take it to a floor nomination and bear the consequences if she felt that set on her position. Should she be kicked out of the Convention? No. We didn't even kick out Zell Miller or Lieberman for their crap, so why should this wacko be any different.

He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin

by TxDem08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:48:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (2.00 / 2)

Yes we did: Joe Lieberman was stripped of his superdelegate status when he endorsed John McCain.

We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.

by Jess81 on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 04:59:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (none / 0)

We didn't even kick out Zell Miller

We stripped him of his superdelegate status. In fact, the rule about that is unofficially known as "The Zell Miller rule"

by Rictor Rockets on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 01:54:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You know damn well nobody said that (1.81 / 11)

But a delegate that chooses to vote for McCain should be drummed out. Don't pretend that you didn't understand that.

by turtlescrubber on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:02:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (2.00 / 5)

so anybody who disagrees with the nominee should simply be kicked out?

The rules speak for themselves. They were the rules when Clinton I ran the first time, they were the rules when Clinton I ran the second time, they were the rules when Gore ran, they were the rules when Kerry ran.

This woman said she was going to support McCain. Support the ENEMY. If an Obama delegate said they were going to support the ENEMY because Hillary one, I would said "The rules demand they get bounced out on their ass, so do it."

Why is it that the DNC's decades long rules suddenly become a problem for you? If this woman wants to be a party delegate, she can't support the Republican party. Why do you think this sort of behavior is appropriate.

C4M is a shill, but he had the right idea. She should have resigned as a delegate.

by Rictor Rockets on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:05:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Rule: you want votes, get on the ballot. (1.00 / 0)

You want delegates, keep you name on the ballot.

The RBC broke that rule for Obama.

by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:14:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Dean screwed Obama on MI, FL (1.00 / 0)

I totally agree. Obama's got a divided party because of that decision.

Some Dems would have voted McCain, but not nearly as many.

by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:39:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Divided Party? (none / 0)

In some trollish dream, it might be so. On various blogs targeted by McSame campaign for trollish invasion, it is often presented as fact.

In reality - a fabrication, a myth, a figment, a fraud.

In November, Obama will win. This is a fact. You need not concern yourself with trying to concern us with your baseless and boring concerns.

But, I know you will continue to try.

by xdem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 03:55:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rule: you want votes, get on the ballot. (2.00 / 0)

You want delegates, you participate in legal elections, not illegal ones that you claim should count...

You should also honor your pledges and promises about elections that you claim don't count.... until, of course, you reverse your decision and claim that they do count...

It profits a PUMA nothing to give their soul for the whole world... but for McCain? --Sir Thomas More (if he were here now)

by LordMike on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:00:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rule: you want votes, get on the ballot. (2.00 / 0)

The RBC broke that rule for Obama.

No, they didn't. In this situation, the RBC concluded that the best they could do within the current framework was to reject what BOTH candidates, Hillary AND Obama personally wanted, and do what the State Party of MI wished.

Be pissy at the State DNC of Michigan, not Obama. He actually asked for less.

None of this, by the way, has anything to do with a pledged delegate in WI betraying the party and the rules, and being properly punished for it.

by Rictor Rockets on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:28:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rule: you want votes, get on the ballot. (1.00 / 0)

NO he didn't. He actually asked for a 50/50 split. And when that wasn't going to happen (regardless of what Donna Brashille says) they pushed for the MI party results with 4 delegates being taken from Clinton and put into Obama's tally.

That is what he asked for.

He that lives upon hope, will die fasting. -Ben Franklin

by TxDem08 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:54:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rule: you want votes, get on the ballot. (2.00 / 0)

That is what he asked for.

No...thats what the STATE DEM PARTY of the state of Michigan asked for.

Those delegates weren't Hillary's to begin with. They were no ones. That whole primary was a beauty contest with no official stamp of imprimatur of the national party. It's what the DNC said would happen. Its what Hillary's people said woudl happen. It's what HILLARY said would happen ("This election won't count for anything"). It's what Hillary agreed to until she suddenly decided it could be used as a hail mary wedge at the end of the process. Hell, if Terry Mcauliffe of 2004 had his way, Michigan would have continued to have been completely stripped of their delegates.

The State party decided to make the delegate assignments the way they did. Four delegates in either direction made absolutely no difference, and this is just a ridiculous point for dead-enders to keep peevishly sulking over.

by Rictor Rockets on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 12:26:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (1.00 / 2)

You were never a Democrat nor a Hillary supporter, you liar. A real democrat wouldn't spit on the party values and a REAL clinton supporter wouldn't spit in the face of her values. Way to try and fuck up the country even worse with more years of Bush Values. Anyone that stupid, shouldn't comment here. You aren't welcome troll. Go back to freerepublic.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:09:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (2.00 / 1)

Yep. You vote for Bush policies, you spit in Hillary, Obama's, and millions of Democrats values including mine. Now the GOP at least are honest about. Those lying sacks of crap like Debra and yourself who were never real democrats, are worthless and spit on Hillary with their actions.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:18:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Can I ask (none / 0)

what brought you to the liberal blogsphere, which was born out of the anti-war movement, if you're so damn pro-war?

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:28:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You hope (2.00 / 1)

to be attacked like you have been so you can whine that the Democratic Party doesn't like dissent and they don't like free speech.

Well, we're not going back to the Lieberman wing, we have made a decision, like most Americans have, that the Iraq war needs to end, somehow, someway. We have made a decision, like most Americans have, that war is not always the quick fix and should only be used by last resort. As a matter of fact many Republicans also believe that.

I'm not going to rag on you because it's clear what you're doing, trying to make us look Stalinist because you know who we will respond to stuff like that. I'm just going to tell you, the party is not going to move in that direction, so you're probably better off leaving it.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:38:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You hope (2.00 / 1)

Lieberman is not a Democrat. Bush's foreign policy has been a complete and utter failure, if you support Bush's foreign policy you should join the Joememtum to the imploding Republican party. The Neo-Cons are circling the wagons for their last stand and will be happy to have anyone who still buys their delusional bullshit.

by hankg on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:51:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

The Clinton/Kerry position on Iraq (none / 0)

is to leave, or as Joe Lieberman calls it, "surrender"

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:00:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Actually She does believe that (2.00 / 1)

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll article?AID=/20080530/NEWS/805300303/10 01

"Clinton recalled the 1990s as good days with budget surpluses, peace and prosperity - a period ruined by President Bush, she said.

"It took a Clinton to clean up after the first Bush," she said. "It'll take a Clinton to clean up after the second Bush."

She said American troops in Iraq succeeded in ousting Saddam Hussein and giving the Iraqi people time to set up a functioning government. But the Iraqi government had squandered that opportunity, and she said it was time to pull out U.S. troops."

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/ira q

"Our message to the president is clear. It is time to begin ending this war -- not next year, not next month -- but today.

"We have heard for years now that as the Iraqis stand up, our troops will stand down. Every year, we hear about how next year they may start coming home. Now we are hearing a new version of that yet again from the president as he has more troops in Iraq than ever and the Iraqi government is more fractured and ineffective than ever.

"Well, the right strategy before the surge and post-escalation is the same: start bringing home America's troops now."

"If President Bush does not end the war, when Hillary Clinton is president, she will. Her three-step plan would bring our troops home, work to bring stability to the region, and replace military force with a new diplomatic initiative to engage countries around the world in securing Iraq's future. Hillary has been fighting every day in the Senate to force the president to change course. And today she described how she would bring the war to an end."

Pretty much her and Obama are almost identical on how to get the troops out of Iraq.

Now are you going to tell me she's just postering for the liberals?

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:48:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So she's a liar (2.00 / 1)

She's lying about her position to get votes?

You can jump through hoops all you want and I am no fan of Hillary Clinton, but she is my Senator and we know her better than most people. I've met her, seen her speak and the one thing I will never take away from here is that for the last four years, she has been steadfast in ending the war responsibly. THAT she's not lying about.

There is no reason to believe she is any more or less anti-war than the rest of the candidate or that she, and not Obama or Edwards or whoever, will stay in Iraq if need be and not them.

The Democratic Party will end the war, if you don't agree with it, don't vote for them, don't support them. It's ok that your disagreement on this causes you to leave the party, I know many a Republican who became a Democrat over Iraq.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:04:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can I ask (none / 0)

Lieberman is no Democrat. He hasn't been for years. There is no "Lieberman Wing" in the democratic party.

Leiberman is soon to be stripped of his chairmanship and will not be re-elected if he runs as a democrat or an independant.

Leiberman is a Republican, get it through your skull, and if you follow his positions then you are a Republican.

NO Democrat, especially a senator, who was supported by the presumtive democratic nominee in his primary, with the explicit intent to "Help get a Democrat into the white house in 2008" and who now actively campaigns for the other party's nominee making him a liar and a scum bag deserves to have the the (D) next to his name, be considered a democrat in any way, or get any resepect from any Democrat in any issue.

Leiberman must GO, and so should YOU.

I really don't care what you do with yourselves, but you are both dead to me.

by Why Not on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:37:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Can I ask (none / 0)

Wow that troll got wiped fast.. loving it.. well here is my response I never got to post since he was gone. I hope people read it:

This isn't mean, it is honesty.

I am not angry at you or Leiberman, but I call them as I see them.

Go be a Republican with your Republican friend Leiberman. Democrats don't want you in the Democratic party to be a traitor to everything they stand for.

If you are a good Republican and do not claim to be a Democrat (which to say you are is demonstrably false) then there may be a time to reach across party lines to speak to the opposition.

But there is no room for dealing with traitors. There is no room for dealing with a doublefaced liar like Leiberman, and there is no point to dealing with a person who claims to be a Democrat in the "Leiberman" vein since that is a contradiction in terms.

There is no such thing as a Leiberman Democrat anymore, they are all just Republicans, and traitors to boot. This makes them the least reliable and the least trustworthy Republicans that exist. I would much sooner take GW Bush's word on anything than I would Leiberman's. I would hope the rest of the party reacts the same way.

by Why Not on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 02:57:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No (2.00 / 2)

so anybody who disagrees with the nominee should simply be kicked out?

Dan Boren is not being kicked out despite disagreeing with the nominee.

But Dan Boren is not actively supporting John McCain.

There's your difference.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:23:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Dan Boren is supporting Obama. He was (none / 0)

misquoted. He says that he is pre-occupied with the disasters in his area but Rahm E. and Boren confirmed that he is supporting the nominee.

by mishiem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:31:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (2.00 / 2)

no it was the fact she stated she would vote for McLame.

by zerosumgame on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:30:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (2.00 / 4)

Yes, I'm sure you can get her hooked up with the same GOP operatives who pay you to come and pretend to be a Democratic Party member supporting McCain, and stir up trouble, Mr I've Only Been Here Since Thursday.

by Rictor Rockets on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:38:01 AM EST

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (2.00 / 3)

I'm not a Republican

BS. Complete and utter BS. I don't buy it for a second. You're some new guy who just HAPPENED to pop onto a site dedicated to getting the Democratic Party nominee elected about two days ago, and started stirring shit up.

Anyone who can actually look at John McCain, his record, what he supports, what he's said, and can still say with a straight face "I'm a Democrat, but I support McCain" is a liar.

I wasn't exactly bowled over by Obama, and I was really pissed by Hillary's power hungry ruthlessness and sense of entitlement during the primary, but EITHER ONE OF THEM is WORLDS AWAY better than McCain.

If you supported Hillary, how can you support McCain? Her platform is MUCH MUCH MUCH closer to Obama's than McCain's.

Just say what you really are: A Republican, either on the take, or who's too embarrassed to admit to being a member of such a corrupt and disgraced party.

by Rictor Rockets on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:49:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You forgot one (2.00 / 2)

Or a Clinton supporter who is pissed right now and lying about who they will vote for in November.

by ProgressiveDL on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:11:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: By the way this is what (2.00 / 3)

I am a liberal on domestic issues,

Not if you can seriously vote for McCain you aren't. McCain has pretty much said, whether he likes it or not, that he's pretty okay with continuing Bush's domestic policies.

So I can only assume you feel the same way, by your support of McCain.

Frankly, I'm a lot more worried about what spending over 2 trillion dollars in Iraq is doing to our economy, than what might happen to the Middle East if the Iraqis fail to take responsibility for their own country. This failed occupation hasn't made us any more safe.

by Rictor Rockets on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:53:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Troll (2.00 / 6)

by turtlescrubber on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:57:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: By the way this is what (2.00 / 3)

Given that opposition to the war is above 60-70%, I would said that this represents a chunk of the population far greater than "irresponsible B Obama college kids".

So...what's next? Lets draft the 70% of irresponsible Americans who opposed the current occupation of Iraq?

Why don't you go? Why don't we draft your kids, and you deadener 28% Bush loving aholes. Or is it easier to stay home and be a keyboard commando chickenhawk, pretending to support the troops while slavering after a man who voted to STAB THE TROOPS IN THE BACK BY TRYING TO KILL THE LATEST GI Bill.

You sir, are no Democrat. You never were, and you never will be. You're a 28% Bushie Deadender. I do not think you will find many friends on this site.

by Rictor Rockets on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:01:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: By the way this is what (2.00 / 2)

The question was asked why don't you go. You seem to be so much in support of this fiasco in Iraq, why haven't you enlisted to go there...?

by StrangeAnomaly on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:11:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: By the way this is what (none / 0)

He's a chickenhawk or a bitter old guy.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:12:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I think your last sentence got cut off (2.00 / 2)

"Damn kids! Get off my lawn!"

by ProgressiveDL on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:13:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: By the way this is what (2.00 / 2)

A "liberal" who supports LIeberman? Lieberman is not a liberal. Liberals do not share ANY values with Lieberman. You are a troll and a liar. Go away.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:59:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: By the way this is what (2.00 / 1)

HA HA HA HA...

Yeah THAT'S why Gore chose him. Obviously you have a very tiny grasp on political history. Lieberman is NOT a social liberal. He is a social moderate. Gore chose him as he was one of Bill's biggest critics during the Impeachment trial; he was trying to seperate.

You don't have any grasp of politics or history. You want to get into this, you will have your ass handed to you because you are ignorant of politics and history. I have FORGOTTEN more about politics than you will ever know.

So do yourself a favor you ignorant troll and go the hell away. You aren't welcome or wanted. We welcome real democrats, not Republican trolls.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:15:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is where I get off (2.00 / 3)

Sorry, but you lost me at "In 2004, my first choice was Lieberman"

by ProgressiveDL on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:13:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Young ones allergic to discussion (1.00 / 4)

You're obviously way more hawkish than I, but that's where it comes down to for me: Obama is too soft on foreign policy.

I would vote for a Muslim, I have no problem with that. Obama is not a Muslim, that is fine. But his involvement with Odinga's election in Kenya is troubling.

by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:18:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (none / 0)

but I will not donate once cent to the DNC or to anyone that will help B Obama.

You mean like, oh, I don't know....say.....HILLARY CLINTON? After all, she will be at the forefront of those working to see Obama elected. Do you withdraw all support for her as well?

The complete lack of logic in your stance is astounding. Rather than trying to lower my reasoning skills to the level required to understand it....I will ignore you. As will the VAST majority of Democrats....Obama AND Hillary Supporters. You might get some open arms moves from the McCain camp...but, trust me, they are laughing at you the whole time.

Ridiculous.

by Kysen on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:05:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (2.00 / 2)

You aren't welcome here troll. Go Away.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:58:46 AM EST

Re: Sounds like dissent is a problem (2.00 / 4)

for you. Maybe you should move to China or Iran.

This isn't a Government run site or taxpayer-funded public property. People on both sides of the issue seem to forget that there is no Constitutional First Amendment right to post on anyones private blog.

You are a Republican shill, and your presence is undesired. Go to Freeptardia or Red State where you can hang with your friends and supporters.

by Rictor Rockets on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:03:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Sounds like dissent is a problem (2.00 / 3)

Just don't like Republican trolls who lie about being liberal and claim to support the party And Frankly have no idea on what they are talking about when it comes to politics. You have the political understanding of a 5 year old. Your comments makes us all sick and frankly work to make us a little stupider. Go away, troll. You are a troll and aren't welcome here. And its going to be sweet when Obama kicks the shit out of McCain this November.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:05:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Right from the Rules (2.00 / 3)

"* Users who are excessively bashing the Democratic Party, or being Republican trolls, will be banned."

I would say that you certainly fit the second part, and possibly even the first. So I await your banning any day now.

by ProgressiveDL on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:15:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Right from the Rules (none / 0)

Report him to Todd or Jerome.

http://www.imvotingrepublican.com/ McCain Sucks!

by yitbos96bb on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:21:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I read that she felt "sort of" (2.00 / 3)

disenfranchised. She clearly doesn't know the meaning of the word. That's quite embarrassing for her.

The plural of anecdote is not data.

by LiberalDebunker on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:08:46 AM EST

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (none / 0)

Any reason you provide no links or sources for Bartoshevich story? Please edit.

by Todd Beeton on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:39:11 AM EST

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (1.66 / 3)

think of it as "distilled truth". we're in the post-sourcing era now.

by campskunk on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:47:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I added it. (none / 0)

by mishiem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:56:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

So they might bounce her (2.00 / 1)

the decision hasn't been approved. Diary title misleading, but that's old politics.

by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:41:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (2.00 / 1)

http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx ?id=762052

by zerosumgame on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:35:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I arrived in Stevens Point just after the vote. (none / 0)

(I picked a bad route around flooding)

4 attendees, independently, told me they perceived it as unanimous.

No official minutes published yet.

Here's AP's take, consistent with everything I heard onsite last night and today.

Democratic Candidate, US Senate, Wisconsin 2012

by benmasel on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:39:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Wis Dems Move to Bounce Delegate (2.00 / 1)

This has become such a pattern with you guys, jumping the gun - can you just title your diary accurately for once?

They probably will bounce her, but it's not final yet.

by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:21:04 AM EST

She will not be at the convention as (none / 0)

a delegate. That is a guarantee.

by mishiem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:37:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Jumping the gun (1.00 / 0)

shows insecurity. It shows that she probably will not go to the convention.

"Probably not" and "that is a guarantee" are not equivalent phrases.

by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:40:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Jumping the gun (1.00 / 0)

Catfish, they bounced Joe Lieberman from the national convention for this. A US Senator.

If you have any doubt whatsover that Ms. Whatsherface from Solidblue, US, is going to receive preferantial treatment then you don't know how the world works.

Yes, we're jumping the gun on this just as we jumped the gun on calling Obama the nominee. It isn't insecurity, it's an absolute iron-clad understanding of what will happen.

We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.

by Jess81 on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:11:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's not the point (1.00 / 0)

the Obama campaign and his supporters show a pattern of leaking to the press the truth as they wish it to be, before it actually happens.

by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 12:42:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's not the point (2.00 / 1)

well if it actually happens then it is the truth as it will be not s they wish it to be.

by parahammer on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:09:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Listen to yourself (1.00 / 0)

Why not just report the news as it is?

by catfish2 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:36:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No "leak," reporters were on site. (none / 0)

The wispolitics.com Convention blog is the most comprehensive more or less neutral coverage of the event.

And now for some shameless selfpromotion:
As an announced Democratic candidate for statewide office (US Senate 2012) I'm entitled to a speaking slot. I passed this year, not enough new material. You can listen to my presentation from 2007 at the previous wispolitics blog. mp3
Next year I'll try and pick the entry music.

Democratic Candidate, US Senate, Wisconsin 2012

by benmasel on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:49:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: WI delegate bounced from National Convention (none / 0)

Is there a way to configure MyDD to ignore the diaries written by selected Diarists? I could really use that right now.

by xdem on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 04:02:10 PM EST

You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.