Modern Republicans and Nazi Germany - Updated

How close are we to this?


Photo credit: Bettmann-Corbis

Are we becoming aware that we are heading towards or already going down this path?

Will Obama pull us back or will he continue down this path while blinding us with beautiful words? This is not a slam against Obama, it is just a thought of what could be if he ends up being no better then most of our past presidents.

We need a true leader who will look to the past for what we as a country have done right and what we have done wrong. A leader who will draw inspiration from our Declaration Of Independence, our United States Constitution and our Bill Of Rights. A leader who will say FUCK YOU to the neo-cons, the religious zealots, the corporatist and the fascist!

We need a leader who won't govern in their first term like they are trying to protect themselves for a second term. We need this leader to put We The People FIRST... Always First!

I want this leader to be Barack Obama.

At times, I really feel we are at the beginning of the end of this country as we have known it. That there is no way to stop this, unless We The People truly WAKE UP!

My rant was inspired by the following Newsweek article:
The Mythology of Munich

I am curious about a few things.

How many of you took Civics in High School or Jr. High/Middle School? How many of you have read our Declaration Of Independence, our United States Constitution and our Bill Of Rights? How many of you own a copy of these documents, not copies that look like the original but copies that you can truly read?

Declaration of Independence

United States Constitution

Bill Of Rights

Here is a Google link to the version of the US Constitution I have. In the last year or so, I have bought many copies and given them to all my coworkers and some friends. Every few months, I buy more (I have my independent local bookstore order them) so that I can hand out more.

OK... I am done ranting for now.

Update This little update is for the people that THINK it can't happen here or that we are not on a path to Fascism.

Please read these two little things. Seriously read them and then compare what you read to what is and has been going on here in the USA, especially in the last 7 plus years.

http://www.reference.com/search?q=fascism

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fascism


Display:


I really do (2.00 / 2)

want Barack Obama to be this leader that will bring us back from the precipice.
I/we have no other option and no other choice right now, so it is ON His Shoulders to make this happen.

mccain is NOT an option.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 07:58:15 PM EST

Is Hillary really out of the race? (none / 0)

because I thought she would have made a far better President.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:11:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Is Hillary really out of the race? (2.00 / 2)

Yes, she is really out of the race.

Let me check.........

hold on.......

yep.. she is out of the race.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:16:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

TR'ed for your offensive sig. (1.00 / 2)

That shit ain't welcome here anymore, trollicious.


by spunkmeyer on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:41:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Modern Republicans and Nazi Germany (2.00 / 4)

We are closer to fascism than most people know, or care to admit. I dug up this post from myleftwing. It is very interesting reading.

http://www.myleftwing.com/showDiary.do?d iaryId=4728

I fear you will get blasted for this diary - there seems to be a reading comprehension problem around here. But you get a rec from me.


Bush murders soldiers for profit. McCain wants to wet his beak.
by awobbly on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:05:14 PM EST

Re: Modern Republicans and Nazi Germany (none / 0)

Hitler was a charismatic and persuasive orator who forcefully addressed the Germans' real grievances with the Versailles Treaty and the reparations they had to pay after losing World War One. He routinely drew many thousands to his fiery speeches. McCain possesses neither this ability nor the grievances against which to rally the people.

I do not see echoes of "It Can't Happen Here" in our current situation. We are a homogeneous people not generally disposed towards extreme nationalism or even hyper-patriotism. Our mainstream press is jingoistic, but there are numerous alternatives to it. We are not in the throes of hyperinflation rendering our currency virtually worthless. We are not about to get to get an "Enabling Act" through Congress.

So yes, I took civics, but your premise is laughable. Besides, McCain is a putz.


by STUBALL on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:08:00 PM EST

laughable? (2.00 / 2)

Are you serious?

I do not see mccain as the new hitler.

But... can you please tell me how we are not and have not been going down this path for the last 30 years or so, mainly in the last 7 plus years.

hmmm? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/f ascism


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:19:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lets face it, the truth is painful.. (2.00 / 3)

Especially to the rich and powerful. A few more years of denial is worth a LOT to them, even if it comes at a huge national cost.

I see a real need for auditing the financial system, as well as the huge Federal expenditures on Iraq.

I cant seem to get rid of a nagging feeling that we are basically being pillaged.

Its common in mature economies.. those who can take whatever they can, and then leave, saddling the nation with huge, crippling debt. Thats what happened to Germany.

The common people, who had NOT run up the debt, were tasked with PAYING for it. naturally, nobody wants to spend the rest of their lives paying somebody else's debt.

(That was no different then than it is now.)

They were desperate. People saw their lives slipping away. People who had always had work, had nothing. Homes and businesses were being foreclosed. Monied people, in particular, were terrified of what they saw as near anarchy (democracy, with its 'mob rule') or Stalin's (TRULY evil brand of) Communism.

Hitler was their 'savior'. He talked about opening up some "breathing room" for Germany. A "thousand year Reich". Even defeated Germany was still a formidable power. Many in the rest of the world sympathized with the underdog, Germany.

If it had not been for a number of notable mistakes, Hitler might have won World War II.

Few Americans realize that Hitler's ideas on race and eugenics, which were at the core of his ideology, came from the US.

Did you know, for example, that that Hitler had a huge portrait of Henry Ford that dominated his office wall?

That many of his early financiers came from the US?

That a fascist coup almost succeeded in taking over the US in 1934?


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:25:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We SHOULD LEARN the arguments democracy has (2.00 / 3)

against fascism.

Many of them have been long forgotten.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:27:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Lets face it, the truth is painful.. (2.00 / 1)

We are being pillaged.  Contractor fraud and abuse is rampant and has definitely contributed to the prolonged nature of this "war".  


by JustJennifer on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 01:11:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

kevin. (2.00 / 2)

you crack me up, you put out 2 diaries so completely different from eachother!  classic.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:55:43 PM EST

Re: kevin. (2.00 / 1)

Thanks.

My mind is a strange and wonderful thing to waste.  :)


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:03:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Modern Republicans and Nazi Germany (none / 0)

Fascism cannot happen in our current political environment. Despite the fact that Germany was in a depression, they were also war-torn. No war has touched this soil but for once in 150 years and God willing, it won't happen again. But because we have not had that happen, we don't have the spirit for revolution. Which is partially a bad thing, since it means that we have a very apathetic voting public, but mostly an extremely good thing.

As many times as you will hear Obama said to be a socialist, we must remember that the bad thing about socialism was not the government programs, it was the dictator, the mass murders, the secret police and the suppression of freedom and independent thought. Only one party has been promoting any of those things. Of course, even then we have limits. Because this is America. Our fascists aren't fascists. Our socialists aren't socialists. We are all free men.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:58:47 PM EST

Excellent points, Kevin. (2.00 / 3)

How many of you took Civics in High School or Jr. High/Middle School? How many of you have read our Declaration Of Independence, our United States Constitution and our Bill Of Rights? How many of you own a copy of these documents, not copies that look like the original but copies that you can truly read?

Me!

But so many people have become apathetic. That's dangerous. You're not the only one wondering whether this country is heading for a fall. There are a startling number of parallels between the U.S. (as it is right now) and Rome before the fall. Unsettling, to say the least.


Even John McCain lusts after teh engels.
by sricki on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:59:20 PM EST

Re: Excellent points, Kevin. (2.00 / 1)

Civics should be mandatory in Jr. High/Middle school and High School. The survival of this nation depends on this more than the three R's. These are also needed, but are more for getting a job and making money for you or your boss. Without Civics people forget WHY this nation exist and what it stands for.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:14:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Modern Republicans and Nazi Germany (2.00 / 1)

I certainly believe that Obama has a much better chance of being the leader that you're looking for. More so than any of the other candidates running this year.
There are a couple of reasons for this. One, Obama was a Constitutional Law professor. I REALLY prefer someone who has that kind of history. At the VERY least, we know he understands the Constitution inside and out (unlike ANYONE in our current administration, who seem to view the Constitution as a roadblock to be gotten around rather than the foundation of our nation.), even more so than our other democratic candidates this year.
Second, Obama is ALL about transparency to the people, and his legislative record shows that.
Third, he believes in a bottom-up approach to power and governing. On the campaign trail, he asks people to 'keep him honest' once he's in office.
Fourth, he learned a LOT of lessons from Mayor Washington in Chicago. This man had ENORMOUS power and did a LOT of good in the city. However, he never built the institutions that would continue his legacy. Therefore, when he died, all that power dissipated and many of his reforms fell apart. One of my biggest problems with the Clinton presidency was that almost all of the good he did while in office was undone within 6 months of G.W. Bush taking the oath. I believe that much of the Obama presidency will be in building institutions that will keep his reforms moving, even after he leaves the White House.
by EvilAsh on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:05:04 PM EST

Re: Modern Republicans and Nazi Germany (2.00 / 1)

I must disagree.

John Edwards was the leader I really wanted. Before that Wes Clark. John became the "one" after I started to really hear him speak truth to power.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:11:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Modern Republicans and Nazi Germany (none / 0)

I never really trusted Edwards this year, though I know a lot of people who feel the same way as you.

Speaking 'truth to power' in Iowa during a presidential primary is easy. Especially if one of the other candidates has ALL the regular rich-guy donors locked up.

He wasn't like that in the Senate, and he wasn't like that during the election four years ago. The turnabout threw me off (and his assertion that he had ALWAYS been that way). That, and he threw in the bit about 'taking away Congress' health care' in his stump speeches . . . which is impossible for a President to do. Whatever his reason, to me it sounded like he was throwing out whatever anyone wanted to hear.


by EvilAsh on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:20:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I TOTALLY Disagree! (2.00 / 1)

It is always "easy" to say what people want to hear. It is part of the reason many held back from Obama. He used to talk nice words but little substance. That has changed.

I think you need to look a little deeper into John Edwards past and even what he has been up to since dropping out of the primary campaign.

He and Elizabeth ARE The Real Deal!

Here is just a little tiny piece of what he is up to lately. I took this from the EENRBlog
http://www.eenrblog.com/

Honoring America's Caregivers
Overland Park, KS June 14
John Edwards, Speaker

Manufacturers' Assoc. 103rd Annual Event 2008
Erie, PA June 18
John Edwards, Speaker

First Lady's Conference on Solutions to Poverty
Des Moines, IA, June 19
John Edwards, Speaker

ACORN Nat'l Convention 2008
Detroit, MI June 23
John Edwards, Speaker

Personal Democracy Forum 2008
New York City, NY June 23
Elizabeth Edwards, Speaker

Campus Progress Nat'l Conference 2008
Washington, DC July 8
John Edwards, Speaker



Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:33:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I TOTALLY Disagree! (none / 0)

Well, early on in Iowa, Obama was wonkier than any other candidate. And all the coverage was "where is this electrifying speaker we've all heard so much about?" Then, he started the electrifying, inspiring stuff, and the coverage went to "he doesn't have any specifics." Apparently, the pundits wanted him to be inspirational and moving WHILE giving a wonky policy speech. Which is, as far as I know, impossible.

I honestly think that not running for president has been good for John Edwards. He can focus on the stuff that means something to him and to Elizabeth without concern for his own political career. They are doing really good things now, and as advocates they can do great things.

However, that doesn't change that SENATOR John Edwards and 2004 John Edwards did not match up with 2008 John Edwards, and his inconsistency made me suspicious. I never heard a compelling reason WHY he was so different, and Edwards never offered one. Rather, he seemed to say this was the REAL him, and everything prior to that had been something else. But coupled with impossible promises, I just didn't buy it.


by EvilAsh on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:42:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Modern Republicans and Nazi Germany (none / 0)

This diary is totally idiotic. Bush is one of the worst presidents this country has ever had, his administration is corrupt and incompetent, but this is not Nazi Germany nor does it bear the slightest resemblance to it. If it did you'd already be in a basement in the Friedrich Strasse. It's hyperbolic nonsense like this that brings the Democratic party into disrepute. Get a sense of proportion.    


by ottovbvs on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:32:19 PM EST

Thanks (2.00 / 1)

for being an idiotic sheep.

Things like this DO NOT happen over night. Get it?

One of the things that has helped keep this from happening full bore is what little independent media we have left. The internet and blogs.

You are BLIND if you can not see the fascism that is growing in this country.

Just take a look at this and see if you see any similarities.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/f ascism


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:37:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Modern Republicans and Nazi Germany (2.00 / 1)

Let me ask you this.

Did you read the bottom half of my diary? What are your answers and responses to what I wrote? Or is what I wrote "idiotic"?


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:39:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe this will help you (2.00 / 1)

seriously THINK about it.

http://www.reference.com/search?q=fascis m


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 09:45:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Modern Republicans and Nazi Germany (none / 0)

To paraphrase Santayana, those who are ignorant of history are condemned to write illucid and misinformed diaries. The diarist and the bulk of the commenters lack a fundamental understandng of fascism and the changes in US government over the last thirty years. Fascism is, contrary to popular belief, not dictatorship; it is the merger of government and big business interests.

From Ronald Reagan on, corporations have indeed gained strength and greater proximity to the levers of power. There has been consolidation or deregulation in most major industries: airlines, defense contractors, the financial sector, the energy sector, mass media and many others. Much of this has been accomplished through the weakening of the Sherman Act, Glass-Steagle, union protections, etc. In some cases (see: Bush, George W.) it has been due to inefficient or insincere regulation by the Executive Branch. (GWB as had Reagan before him, installed foxes to monitor every henhouse.) While these efforts have largely been the wet dream of the right, numerous left-leaning politicians have acted as collaborators.

When Reagan took office in 1981 the prime rate was 20 1/4%, inflation was mid-double digits and some loosening of regulation was clearly indicated. Through his initial tax cuts (at the time the largest ever), broad acceptance of M & A activity, firing of the air traffic controllers, (PATCO) Reagan, aided by the steady hand of Paul Volker at the Federal Reserve, was able to improve our competitive situation in the world and our living standards at home. This is not to say that Reagan wasn't a right-wing asshole; he was, but he did improve the economic conditions in the country. He also enacted some of the largest tax increases in our history when he realized he had gone too far.

Despite the table being set for fascism we didn't go there. For every action there is (eventually) an equal and opposite reaction. That led to Bill Clinton's 1993 10% tax surcharge (on igh earners) which in turn, bolstered by the new IT industry, led to an apparent budget surplus. (I say apparent because the way these guys keep score, humongous future entitlement deficits don't seem to count.)

And then came Bush. He pushed it as far as it could go, then a little more, then even more than that. But now nobody seems to be satisfied with the economy. Will we default to fascism? No. We'll just, as we did in 2006, throw the bums out.


by STUBALL on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:13:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

misinformed? (2.00 / 1)

I think not.

You are correct on many of the points you make. I will not even get into reagan right. I am tired of seeing people give that ass any credit.

The slide to fasism in the US is not a definate and it is also would not happen the same as it did in the past in other countries.

Big parts of fasism are...

Extreme Nationalism and patriotism - You don't see this going on?

Constant enemy (internal and external) - Internal = Liberals, Gays, "Illegals", anyone who speaks out or speaks up in defense of what is right.
External = Muslims and Islam

The meshing of gov and corporate powers. - Come on, you have got to see this?

The control of the media and the message. - They have consolidated the media and thus the message into a handful of mostly right leaning corporations that put money and power above the public interest. They are also trying to consolidate it even more. They are also trying to kill what the internet is (see: Net Neutrality)

You say that we will just do as we did in 2006? Huh? Well why did "we" not do this in 2004? Why did we do nothing and let them steal two elections in 2000 and 2004?

Do you realize that if bush had not gone into Iraq that most Americans would be complacent? It took until 2006 before they really DID anything. If the neo-cons had not fucked up Iraq or had not gone in, I bet we would see another repug with a very good chance to be prez this year. You might even see the "media" saying how "the people" or "some say" that "they" would like gdub to run for a third term. Much like they did with reagan.

In other words... YOU give they and the public to much credit. Most people are SHEEP! They are followers.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:34:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: misinformed? (none / 0)

You're right about the "sheep" part but I think that's largely due to reliance on "old" media which has a symbiotic relationship to (whatever) government (is in power). I also agree that nationalism and patriotism were essential aspects of the Nazi rise to power, but it was more than that. There was also a religious component to it and, like Bush and Reagan, Hitler used it to consolidate his power. Germany had the indignities of the Versailles Treaty to rally against; we had 9-11. Bush, as did Hitler, skillfully manipulated the "sheep." It was a Nazi thing as well as a modern-day Republican thing: they need a bogeyman. They need something, or someone, to run AGAINST. It's their only option. Their policies are never going to get them elected.

I'd have to be willfully blind not so see the meshing of government and corporate power but I don't see it as being as combustible a mixture as it was in Germany (even more so in Italy) in the 1930s. Yes they have the "media," but it is a declining and distrusted media. Today there are viable options for the dissemination of information, bypassing the MSM. We tend to think of cable news and dead tree media as having a huge audience, but in reality, that audience is us. And we are, at minimum, skeptical.

On another point, I'm one of those whose is not so sure Bush actually won in 2004. Black box voting, minority disenfranchisement and corrupt election officials had as much to do with it as the voters. In 2006 we did manage to take over the levers of power in many states. Gone are the Ken Blackwells and (in many cases) the paperless voting.

In truth, I don't disagree with you. I just don't share your alarm. Even should McCain win, and don't think for a second he can't (swiftboat), at best he could stall the progresive agenda. He will not be able to overcome the huge margins Democrats will have in Congress. The parts of his agenda we agree with will be enacted. (We will suffer from a Neanderthal Supreme Court for a generation or two.)

One last point: I don't think that, absent Iraq, anyone would be clamoring for an extension of Bush's tenure. Not even Bush. He's tired, phoning it in as lame ducks are wont to do, and wants to leave as much as we want him to go. Katrina, corruption of the judiciary, dismantling every federal agency, high oil prices and the woeful economy would have consigned him to the same approval defecit he has now.


by STUBALL on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:17:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: misinformed? (none / 0)

Who are 'they'?

Also, if all the people that you mentioned as the internal enemies are really treated as such by everyone, then how come States are recognizing the rights of these 'enemies' more and more every single day?


by JENKINS on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 05:31:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

what? (none / 0)

Did I say everyone?

Come on OPEN your eyes and stop being so blind.

Did you read the links about fascism I posted?

THINK!


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 02:23:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what? (none / 0)

I must be sheep.


by JENKINS on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 04:07:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what? (none / 0)

yes you must.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 07:44:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Modern Republicans and Nazi Germany - Updated (none / 0)

I have said a lot of things about the Republican Party. However, just because they have a different idelogy that does'nt mean that they are Nazis or would lead this country to a Nazi Germany. Have you ever seen a charismatic Republican? They need a national security crises to gain power, how often does that happen? If 9/11 hadnt happened Bush would never have won a second term. Republicans win on national security, Dems on economic issues. Its pretty clear who is going to win, even though our candidate is horrible.


by bsavage on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:32:05 PM EST

Re: Modern Republicans and Nazi Germany - Updated (2.00 / 1)

Please read what I wrote in a comment above. Also, please read the info at the update links in the diary.

....hmmmm

Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:42:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Modern Republicans and Nazi Germany - Updated (2.00 / 1)

An important part of our national drift towards fascism that hasn't been mentioned in this thread the establishment of a paramilitary force. i.e. Blackwater.
There is a reason that the primary federal response to Katrina was to send in Blackwater. They were training that paramilitary force in urban pacification, and training us to accept it.
Bush murders soldiers for profit. McCain wants to wet his beak.
by awobbly on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:05:34 PM EST

DING! (none / 0)

Also... how about refering to the US as the "homeland". Also.. what about the HUGE new detention facilities that HAVE been built and are bing built?

One of them is HERE in Tacoma, WA in the port area. It replaces what was once a small "illegal immigrant" detention facility in Seattle.


Washington Woman

Progressive Blue

by kevin22262 on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 11:27:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Modern Republicans and Nazi Germany - Updated (none / 0)

Sorry, but what threatens us is not the ghost of Nazi Germany from the 30's or 40's, or much less Mussolini's 20 year parody of strength.

The threat to our civil liberties comes from our own history.

Remember, Hitler's favorite books weren't Vol I & II of his own Mein Kampground, they were Karl May's tales of American cowboys & gunfighters. The extirpation of America's indigenous population in the West was proudly touted by Hitler as the historical precedent to his own such policies in the East.

Hitler was a cowboy who tried to create an empire through war.

We're an empire of cowboys currently dismantling our empire through war.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Sun Jun 15, 2008 at 12:39:54 AM EST


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