you asked why...

if you are a regular at mydd, you will have noticed a marked change in the last few days - that change reflects an increase in atmosphere similar to dkos with many HRC supporters gone.   this quiet here is combined with some sincere diaries calling for unity or attempting to understand and assuage anger amongst HRC supporters who say they would not vote for BO.  i will attempt to try and explain the way some people are feeling.

first lets take a look at some startling numbers from the exit polls from last tuesday's contests in indiana and north carolina that reflect this problem in a more tangible way.

According to the exit polls, half of Clinton's supporters in Indiana would not vote for Obama in a general election match up with John McCain. A third of Clinton voters said they would pick McCain over Obama, while 17 percent said they would not vote at all. Just 48 percent of Clinton supporters said they would back Obama in November.

Obama gets even less support from Clinton backers in North Carolina. There, only 45 percent of Clinton supporters said they would vote for Obama over McCain. Thirty-eight percent said they would vote for McCain while 12 percent said they would not vote.

Obama voters appear to be more willing to support Clinton in November. In Indiana, 59 percent of Obama backers said they'd vote for Clinton, and 70 percent of Obama backers in North Carolina said they'd support the New York Democrat.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/200 8/05/06/exit-polls-half-of-clintons-supp orters-wont-back-obama/

my take on why people are saying this:

  1. they are turned off by BO's negative campaignin
  2. they want HRC and no one else
  3. they dont like BO or his policies
  4. they are offended at wright/bitter etc.
  5. they found BO hypocritical
  6. they are offended at charges of racism toward a former president and first lady which clearly isn't so
  7. they think BO is a phony
  8. they think BO is too inexperienced

and here is what i believe to be the most responsible for these numbers:

  1. THEY ARE DISREGARDED FOR SUPPORTING HRC
  2. THEY ARE TURNED OFF BY HIS SUPPORTERS - INCLUDING THE MEDIA
  3. THEY ARE DISGUSTED BY BO'S IMPLICIT ENCOURAGEMENT OF #9 and #10

lets look a little deeper at these...

THEY ARE DISREGARDED FOR SUPPORTING HRC
there is often the almost complete disregard for the 14 million voters who have backed HRC's candidacy, as well as the idea that she is their representative in this race. instead, the media and BO supporters treat HRC's entire campaign as some sort of vanity exercise in which voters do not exist.  this includes the accusations of"low-information voters," racism, xenophobia, or suggestions that people who voted for HRC are somehow irrational and voting only on the basis of gender and are stupid or shallow.  

THEY ARE TURNED OFF BY HIS SUPPORTERS - INCLUDING THE MEDIA
"iron my shirts" ring a bell?  or how about the hatred and condescending treatment you see all over the internet.  even here at mydd which tended to be one of the few last places online that HRC supporters could come freely and not feel inundated by swarms of BO supporters vitriol.  this hateful nonsense can be seen in disgusting diaries and comments.  yesterday - a BO supporter posted a youtube clip which equated HRC to hitler.  even now - its very close to being over, and this nonsense is still going on and probably will go on even when i submit this diary.

which leads me to the media.  they basically decided they did not want HRC in the race and similarly they wanted BO to be the nominee.  the media pile on HRC together with BO's glowing treatment (save for wright redux).  There is not enough room in this diary, but if you want more info on the disgusting treatment by the media, please feel free to see some of my other diaries on this here:

a huge departure from the patriarchal past? um no.

media triumphantism! BO wins NC!

so now the press tells candidates when to quit?

rolling around on their backs like ladybugs.

screw the voters hillary, the media wants you out

olbermann: misogyny 101.

Email to Tom Shales asks: Why the double-standard?

Democrats - the media is failing you

oh, the hypocrisy.

Double standards and negativity are a 2-way street.

With Clinton It Would Be "Hillary Hates Hicks" -- With Obama It's "Compassion"

The Failure of the Fourth Estate.

The Media: BO Campaign Surrogate?

put succinctly by orange fur:  "One thing I don't understand is why some Obama supporters feel a need to defend obviously derogatory comments. When David Shuster accused Clinton of pimping out Chelsea, why did so many of them rush in to defend him? It has nothing to do with Obama. Not every enemy of your opponent is a friend."

THEY ARE DISGUSTED BY BO'S IMPLICIT ENCOURAGEMENT OF #9 AND #10
many ask themselves what progressive would stand silent, supporting with the cold reserve of ambition the disgracefully sexist, smears and virtriol on a well-respected woman of the same party or political foe?

will it be a kumbaya in november if BO is the nominee?  im not so sure.



Display:


Re: you asked why... (2.00 / 9)

here is the answer... warts and all.  


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:32:26 PM EST

Re: you asked why... (2.00 / 2)

but aren't we supposed to try and get the Democrat elected?  I am pissed at Clinton supporters too, but I am smart enough to realize that people talking crap on the internet means next to nothing in the real world.  I can't wait for this primary to be over.


by Xris on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:36:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Great Post - Highly Rec'd (2.00 / 5)

And before anyone gets in my face with demands and inquisitions I'll repeat something I've said many times before...

I fully intend to vote for the Dem no matter who that turns out to be come the General.  No matter what - the Dem will get my vote.  Hillary said she'd back our nominee and that's good enough for this lifelong, yellow dog Democrat.

Having said that - I fully expect that our nominee will be Hillary.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:43:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary supporters are not going away (2.00 / 1)

And neither is Hillary. She can still win.

The MSM is evil.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:08:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you asked why... (2.00 / 1)

I think for some Clinton supporters, #2 is the answer... nothing else, no one else.. just Hillary.

Beyond that, it was a long primary season... too long for my taste, but I don't like giving McCain a free ride.

Once the votes have been tallied, we will have a nominee.  If that nominee is not of your choosing, fine.  If you decide you are going to sit this one out, that's fine too.  Seriously, it's your vote.. if you want to throw it away or not use it, go ahead... I question the need to crow about it though.... tacitly supporting McCain.  Not overtly, but tacitly.  Especially if the comment is followed by some wish of luck to the rest of us with President McCain...  

Saying you will deny the Democrats a vote in a crucial election year on a progressive blog deserves to be decried.  The reasons for saying it don't matter as much.


McCain/Palin... even scarier than Bush/Cheney... and that's saying something!
by JenKinFLA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:43:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

there is an underlying threat here. (2.00 / 6)

"if you don't vote obama, you're a repug"
"if you don't vote obama, McCain will win"
"if you don't vote obama, then you're the "r" word"

Hey, many of us think that a vote for Obama won't help us beat McCain, and that still is a legitimate concern of millions of people.  You want our vote and support?  Stop threatening!


by 4justice on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:58:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: there is an underlying threat here. (2.00 / 2)

a vote for Obama doesn't help him beat McCain?  Isn't that how our system works, people get together and encourage each other to vote for the party or candidate they like?  

Second, this is the internet and these are just random people so how is it that these same random people are required to convince you of anything?  You could always look at both Obama and McCain's proposals and decide which one fits your beliefs better.  But then again it might be more fun to try and get internet folks to beg you for support.


by Xris on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:02:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

some of us have legitimate concerns (2.00 / 2)

that even if we all voted for Obama, he could not beat McCain.  Is that clear?


by 4justice on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:08:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: some of us have legitimate concerns (2.00 / 1)

but if we all vote Clinton she will win?  I am not being a smart ass, I just don't get your logic.  I personally think both of them have pros and cons against McCain, but I don't claim to be some prophet who knows how things are going to turn out.  I just know that I like Obama and in the end want a Democrat to win.  That is all I can do as an individual and I just have to hope the majority of Americans decide the same as me.


by Xris on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:16:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

no, I was talking about Obama (2.00 / 2)

that Obama can't beat McCain. Some of us believe--without stating a preference--that Obama is not a strong candidate. Not everything relates to HRC.

This is the work you have cut out for yourself, to prove that  your guy can beat McCain. It won't happen by beating up on HRC, or thinking every comment relates to her!


by 4justice on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:44:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: no, I was talking about Obama (2.00 / 2)

I agree, this is the trap that the Obama camp will find themselves.


"Little Distractions Become Major Attractions" - How can you possibly win?
by ctmayor on Sat May 10, 2008 at 01:30:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks, Canadian Gal (2.00 / 5)

It is also just as possible for people to sense a "loser" and still be a democrat.  Witness McGovern, Kennedy (split dems), Dukakis, Kerry.

Yes, like a "good dem" I supported them all, knowing in my heart they would lose.  This is how I feel about Obama! And almost eerie that that same coalition of dems are strong endorsers of Obama.....

I can't do this anymore and I now think we're beginning to see the end of the democratic party as we know it.


by 4justice on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:04:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Thanks, Canadian Gal (none / 0)

because Obama won our primary?  Are you suggesting that we should just ignore the primary results and go with what your "gut" tells you?  I can see it now, we lock you up for 4 years and then have a big ceremony where you come out and annoint the true candidate for our party.  It would make for great television.  You could pick a the local mail man from a suburb of Cleveland Ohio and say "My heart tells me he is the one".  


by Xris on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:06:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]

elections are not all politics and numbers (2.00 / 1)

Yes, I trust my intuition more than I do delegate counts.  And no, I do not advocate for voter disenfranchisement.  

Maybe you don't remember the losses of the democrats represented in the names above, and what happened to the party.  Maybe you don't see it as an odd connection.  I do.  It reaffirms my gut intuition about Obama's electability.


by 4justice on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:12:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: elections are not all politics and numbers (none / 0)

Well my gut says you are wrong.  This is kind of a pointless argument if it is based solely on our "guts".  Both are great candidates and Obama is probably going to win and there isn't much that is going to change that.  Neither was ever going to get a free pass from the Republicans and I do not live in some fantasy land where I believe Obama is going to magically wave his hand and stop them.  We will all have to stand together and fight them like we always do.  


by Xris on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:19:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

well go for it (2.00 / 2)

but no, I don't believe we all have to "stand together" right now.  I won't stand with a candidate I don't believe in.  My support is earned, not taken for granted.


by 4justice on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:47:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: well go for it (none / 0)

Short of morphing into Senator Hillary Clinton, what can Senator Obama do to win your support?


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 01:46:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Nothing at this point (none / 0)

Because nobody believes him anymore.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:10:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you asked why... (none / 0)

your Canadian, that blows my theory that most of us are rational


Hillary-The corporate candidate
by cdnminer on Thu May 15, 2008 at 12:01:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: you asked why... (none / 0)

canadian gal,

Thanks for the link from my post.  

Regarding the notion that Obama had a responsibility to address the media attack on Clinton, isn't that sexist by nature.  

Obama was expected to denounce or "defend" Clinton against attacks but she was not expected to do the same?

I don't like it, I think Sen. Clinton deserves better than being thought of as needing her opponent to defend her.  

I don't expect Sen. Clinton to defend Sen. Obama or the reverse, that's true equality.  


"The best way to show that a stick is crooked is not by arguing about it or spending time denouncing it, but to lay a straight stick alongside it" -DL Moody
by nextgen on Sat May 31, 2008 at 03:34:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

Polls in OH and PA showed about 9% of Hillary's supporters as saying that race was "very important" to their reason for voting for Clinton.

This may not account for all of these HRC-or-bust voters, but it's certainly part of it.


by elrod on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:38:52 PM EST

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (2.00 / 3)

i actually had that in there, but took it out because i thought it might offend some folks....


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:40:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (2.00 / 3)

Be careful using words like "folks" - SNARK!


by mcctx on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:36:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (2.00 / 1)

I pray never to hear "folks" "notion" or "change" ever again.


by ellend818 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:47:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Why did he change his website wording on healthcar (none / 0)

Why did he change his website wording on healthcare?

When he knows that without a mandate, he cant prevent insurance companies from pricing by risk.

Thats another 'Big Lie' TM.

He needs to explain why he changed it and how he is going to pay for it ans pledge that within a week of taking office he will start working for it with a goal of signing a bill within the first six months of taking office.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:12:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

people are just pissy right now and rightfully so.  We have two awesome candidates and both of their coalitions are unwavering.  Unfortunately for Clinton, Obama's happened to be a smidgen bigger.


by Xris on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:41:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Its not 'pissy' its a matter of human SURVIVAL (1.00 / 2)

What about that is so hard for your selfish idiots to understand?


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:14:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (2.00 / 3)

And the elephant in the room is that black support for Obama was unimous. But we aren't allowed to talk about that.  I don't get the difference.  People voted on race on both sides, but it looks to me like Obama's voters did it in larger numbers.


by Scotch on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:56:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (2.00 / 1)

Perhaps the fact he polled below Clinton with black support until the escapade in South Carolina means something?

Nah. Couldn't be.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:14:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Precisely (2.00 / 3)

Until Obama invited Donnie McClurkin to star on his S. Carolina tour, there wasn't a hint of any divisive or racial overtones to this campaign.


by phoenixdreamz on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:24:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Precisely (none / 0)

Heh. Think that all you want, my friend, but whether you like it or not, African-Americans didn't take Bill's comments very well. And he started to poll above Clinton with African-Americans. But heck, why let facts get in the way? Rhetoric is more fun.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:29:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Bill knew exactly what Obama was up to (2.00 / 1)

The black community in that state is extremely prejudiced against the LGBT community, and Obama threw LGBT's under the bus in a revoting pander to them by inviting that anti-gay bigot to 'entertain' them.

But heck, why let facts get in the way?


by phoenixdreamz on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:33:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Bill knew exactly what Obama was up to (none / 0)

Ahh, so you're on a LGBT kick. Gottcha.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:38:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Facts do get in the way (none / 0)

The old addage still applies: Package it right, and they'll buy bolonia.


by phoenixdreamz on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:42:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Facts do get in the way (none / 0)

An argument that could easily be made for the Clinton campaign, indeed.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:47:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

What about the black people who vote for Clinton (none / 0)

because they know they can't afford healthcare under Obama but they also dont want to be harassed by his 'people'? Do they count?


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:15:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is why he has spoken out against (none / 0)

the prejudice in the black community for LGBT individuals in a black church on MLK Day.  That also was not the only time he discussed some members of the black community's virulent anti-homosexuality.  He's spoken out at a hard time (in an election) when he was appealing to these people's support, but yet he was still courageous enough to speak out against their prejudice.  Perhaps you need to reexamine Senator Obama.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Sat May 10, 2008 at 01:47:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Respectfully, talk is cheap (none / 0)

Actions speak louder than words.. always have, always will. When push came to shove in political terms for Obama, he toured S. Carolina with a damn anti-gay bigot because the crowds he spoke to there love that stuff.


by phoenixdreamz on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:01:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Is it not an action to stand in front of a crowd.. (none / 0)

and speak out against the people's prejudice.  Remember he was asking for these people's votes and the same time he was calling them out for their prejudice.  Not the normal politician's path to victory.  That's an action and a forceful one.

Donnie McClurkin's attitudes on homosexuality are wrong.  But you can't reject everybody whose wrong on a subject.  You tell that they are wrong and work together on the things you agree with.  HIllary Clinton hss done this numerous times.  She worked with Newt Gingrich of all people.  


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:39:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Is that the same Obama who implied that gay people (none / 0)

are less than human by wanting to return to the old style military where they were thrown out of the service for being gay?

(I'm not gay but I thought its important to mention that. Its wrong.)


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:17:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Mischaracterization (2.00 / 1)

Just because he's going to repeal DADT doesn't mean he'll let the military discriminate against gays.  DADT was a fat pile of nothing that only re-inforced prejudice against gays.

Quite the opposite, really.  He'll doubtless integrate the military more thoroughly because we can't turn away talented soldiers for such a piddling thing as who they like to sleep with.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.

That One/Another Fella '08

by Dracomicron on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:23:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Precisely (2.00 / 2)

Boy, you really do want Clinton supporters to sit it out if Obama gets the nomination, don't you?

You people mystify me to no end.


by Little Otter on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:41:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Precisely (none / 0)

Gimme a break. I assume you're an adult, I'm not going to wear kid-gloves, especially considering the vitriol and hate I saw you spew personally. But since Obama's winning, you expect me to ignore that, ignore reasons like I cited above, and do some serious brown nosing?

Give me a break.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:50:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Precisely (none / 0)

If you think we're rough, try the Republicans.  We (Dems) actually think that women, minorities, and gays should not only succeed, but maybe, just maybe, us white guys are actually a little responsible for the world we find around us, imperfect and flawed as it is.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 01:47:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Precisely (none / 0)

Yeah, people like to say that Clinton treated Obama with kid gloves. Well, he did the same thing. How quickly people forget how shoddily the media and Republicans treated her. It would have only gotten worse, and Republicans would have brought up everything from Tezla to Tsu to Bill's pardons to the USS Cole and much, much more. Including more character assassination than Randi Rhodes would ever dream of. Kerry wasn't done in by Swift Boat Veterans, he was done in by traipsing around in scuba gear and hunting in camouflage like an idiot. Hillary is full of those moments. That bit about hunting when she was a girl was more than enough to make her look foolish. She'd be tarred with both the "lying" brush they hit Gore with and the "flip-flopper" & "phony" tag they hit Kerry with.

The only reason she looks like she has less baggage is because she's presumably lost. So there's no need to bring all of it up like there is for Obama.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:10:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Its healthcare.. Literally trillions of dollars (none / 0)

are riding on this because the healthcare companies know that if Hillary wins, she will be a  very tough negotiator against them. Obama is basically a player and he knows where his money is coming from, them.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:19:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I think you underestimate him (none / 0)

On healthcare, his lack of a mandate was likely created as a differentiating factor back when he was trying to get in office. In practice, I don't think his would be much different, or at least would have controls in place to ensure that the insurance companies can't charge whatever they want. Hell, if Hillary gets Senate Majority Leader, he'll have to get through her first and foremost anyway, right?


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Sat May 10, 2008 at 09:29:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Precisely (none / 0)

I don't expect you to vote for the Democratic nominee at all unless it's your candidate. You've made it clear. I think we all hope to appeal most to the numerous Clinton supporters on here who don't carry hatred for Barack Obama, or who at least don't give heartfelt speeches as to why he is the most wicked man in politics.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:00:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't hate Obama I just think that WE DESERVE BE (none / 0)

WE DESERVE BETTER

WE DESERVE REAL CHANGE ON HEALTHCARE NOW WITH BUSH GETTING 18-33% approval. Obama has gotten where he is by lying on healthcare so I think the votes he has received are in no small way illegitimate.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:22:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (2.00 / 1)

Why did Edwards get only 1% of the black vote in SC?


by OrangeFur on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:58:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Changing the subject... (none / 0)

Cant talk about heathcare, huh? Switch back to racism. I see how you work.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:23:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

you do realize democrats rarely win the white vote?  Bill Clinton wouldn't have won two terms without all demographics.  


by Xris on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:14:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

what planet are you on? (none / 0)

'democrats rarely win the white vote'

Somewhere in the deep south? In the 80s?


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:24:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: what planet are you on? (none / 0)

No Democrat has won the white vote since 1976.  Clinton only won 39% of the white vote in 1992.

http://professorofdesire.blogspot.com/20 08/05/myth-of-white-vote-and-democratic- party.html


by mnl1012 on Sun May 11, 2008 at 09:22:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

There's a difference between blacks voting for a black candidate because he's black and whites voting for a white candidate because s/he's white. It's called oppression and pride.

The same goes with gender. There's a big difference between women voting for a woman because she's a woman and men voting for a man because he's a man.

Exit polls have picked up racist Hillary supporters and sexist Obama supporters in every election. But in PA and OH in particular there were a LOT more racist Hillary supporters than chauvinist Obama supporters.


by elrod on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:24:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (2.00 / 2)

Obama's been pushing race issues. That's part of the fall out from his accusing Clinton of using race baiting.

The upside was that he could unite black support around him. The down side was the white Americans got really pissed.

As Sappho said - if you're squeamish, don't prod the beach rubble.


by Little Otter on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:43:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

Senator Clinton was polling competitively among Black voters until AFTER South Carolina.  She got 20% of the AA vote in my home state of SC in a three-way race.  That wasn't bad at all.

Then her husband jumped the goddamned shark.  Please, for the love of god, understand that sometimes people you care about and idolize say either stupid or screwed up things.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 01:49:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (2.00 / 1)

Yes, Obama's campaign accused Clinton, without reason, of racism and that was stupid. that's one of the reasons white voters don't want to vote for him and it affects his electability in November.

Sometimes people you love and admire say really stupid things and fuck up badly. Accusing the Clintons of racism is as stupid as it gets.


by Little Otter on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:10:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

He implied that losing my home state of South Carolina wasn't a big deal because Black people vote for Black people.  No biggie.

He compared Barack Obama to Jesse Jackson.  To Jesse freaking JACKSON.  It was code, and if you don't see it, you're pretty blind.

This white South Carolinian was more than irate at that point.  I admired Bill Clinton, I defended Bill Clinton all through the impeachment.  I went to the mat for him when most everybody I knew wanted his ass tossed out of office.  I don't have to prove anything to anybody about my history of personally supporting Bill Clinton.

After that remark?  Fuck him.  He may not be a racist, but he's a calculating bastard who appeals to them when it suits him to do so.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:18:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

Keep it up. this is one of the reasons Obama is losing support among white males. Sane adults know that Clinton said nothing racist nor implied anything racist. Sane adults with an IQ over 90 knew the only person who could benefit from  the race card being played in that situation was Obama.

Again, reciting this BS ad infinitum is one of the reasons Obama's percentage of white votes is falling.


by Little Otter on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:02:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

My father is sane.  My mother is sane.  They're "working class whites."  My friends are sane.  My colleagues are sane.

It isn't a question of sanity.  We can disagree as to the meaning, but if you note, I actually didn't call him a racist.  Try re-reading my post, if you would.  The last bit should be illustrative.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:06:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

There was nothing racist or implied racist in anything he said. he was being gracious and generous with Obama. He, himself, did much better than Obama did when he ran in 1992. John Edwards did much worse. Jesse Jackson did well (but not as well as Bill) and he complimented based on the most recent historical comparison available that wasn't rude to another candidate or gloating - not that actual historical information is something the obama camp has any interest in.

Your post is why obama is losing white support. That charge is sheer racist assholery. It helped Obama consolidate black support and it's part of the reason he's bleeding white support. And if he's the nominee, I'm going to be able to use it very effectively against him in the general election. I won't vote for McCain, but I'll do everything i can to preserve the Democratic party integrity (however little of it remains) against Obama's self-serving predations. I'm more than willing to start gearing up for 2012 right now.

Your candidate has a big problem. And when you repeat the charge, you make the problem worse.


by Little Otter on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:11:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

Does it register with you that a LOT of people took extreme offense to Clinton's remark?

DOES IT ACTUALLY GET THROUGH YOUR SKULL?

People took offense to something he said.  It came across as incredibly insensitive and condescending.  He diminished Obama's accomplishment because, well heck, any Black guy running would win South Carolina.

Whether that was what he meant, it was certainly how it came across.

And the problem is this - a LOT of Clinton supporters, at least the nuttier ones who post online have been willing to equate Obama with Jackson in far too many ways.  Jesse Jackson made his color perhaps the most defining thing about his candidacy.  While you might argue that Obama has done that (and you would be wrong if you did), you can really only make that argument later in the race.

I didn't hate, or even dislike Bill Clinton until I heard that quote.  That particular line drove a lot of African Americans I know completely up the wall.  And it wasn't just them.

It's that subtle discrimination of low expectations.  He was suggesting that Blacks will vote for just about any fellow Black if given the chance.  It was a devastating thing to hear from someone that had been seen, and touted, as a friend to the African American community.

This isn't about politics.  This is very simple, actually.  Whether you want to admit it or not, whether you think it is right or not, whether you think it is fair or not, Bill Clinton, through his own choice of words (and failure to repudiate them) has ruined his reputation with a LOT of African Americans.  So either he's an idiot, or he did it for a reason.  That reason does not have to be that he's a racist, but it may be that he made a calculation that driving Blacks to Obama would scare Whites to Clinton.

And before anybody attacks me for suggesting that possibility, it's the equivalent to the "race-baiting" I keep hearing Obama did, when I read some of the diaries here.


by Reaper0Bot0 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:18:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

um - sorry but i disagree.  didnt bc say this right after a primary?  it would make absolutely no strategic sense to alienate AA voters.  also wasnt HRC enjoying up until that point a sizable chunk of the AA vote?  yes he said those remarks for a calculated political reason - ready for it?

TO MINIMIZE BO'S LOSS.  no boogey man racist reason, not to drive whites to him.  simply to play down his win and their loss.  period.  this argument of him comparing him to JJ is nonsense - who else could he have compared him to? edwards - was still in the race at the time.

what we now know, is that yes - the race card was played by BO's campaign, not sure im right:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/01/12 /obama-camps-memo-on-clin_n_81205.html


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:26:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

Oh God, once again a memo of press clippings is playing the race card, not what Clinton said.  Look, regardless of Clinton's intent what he said was offensive and Clinton never admitted that it might be offensive even though, newspapers, Rep. Clyburn (at the time uncommitted), Sen. Kenneday (at the time uncommitted), the blogosphere, prominent black leaders all said that this came across as offensive.  I won't even get into the part where he accused Obama of playing the race card and then denied ever making the accusation.


by shalca on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:34:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama must have fake Clinton supporters (none / 0)

who work for your Internet viral marketing team who pose as racist Clinton supporters just like the other blog people.. the bury brigades you see on here. Those are not real Clinton supporters.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:26:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]

He said it on the day of the primary. nt (none / 0)


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:43:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

Sure, and lots of people are offended by obama's bogus charge that the comments were racist. does that get through your thick skull? Obama is losing white support. Why do you think that is?

Obama has smeared Clinton and the smear has taken hold. But the Clintons are smart, and they will wait until the primary is over to heal the wounds.

Bill Clinton is not a racist, his is not careless nor is he an idiot. He's a guy who made a straightforward compliment and got smeared by a cynical politiician. It happens. And it will be fixed. Because when all is said and done, african Americans had their highest wages, highest employment rate and lowest crime rate under bill Clinton. He did well by them and they know it. And when this primary is over, Obama is going to have to heal the veery nasty rift that he opened here, and clinton's reputation will necessarily be restored.


by Little Otter on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:29:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

I find it sad that you will accuse Obama of misogynistic attacks on Hillary by uttering the word "periodically" but refuse to see how so many people found Bill SC statement offensive.


by shalca on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:29:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

I find it sad that you support a candidate who employs racism and misogyny as the only way to win his primary.


by Little Otter on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:32:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

And now you're sounding very much like Hillaryis44.com and NoQuarter


by shalca on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:35:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

Well, truth hurts. Am I supposed to pull my punches because the hot house flowers supporting Obama can't deal with what he is doing?


by Little Otter on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:42:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

And that's all I have to say to that.


by shalca on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:47:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (2.00 / 2)

I know we like to view things from the perspective of how it should be, in a perfect world where sex and race don't matter.  But we don't live in that world.

So, when blacks vote for a black candidate because he's black, it's about empowerment.  Blacks in America haven't controlled much in this country, and are disproportionately poor, undereducated, have shorter life spans, and any number of other negative things.  If black voters believe that a black candidate better understands their plight and can empower them, then I've no problem with that.

And, for the record, the same applies to women.

But when whites vote for a white candidate because she's white, then that's not about empowerment.  It's about oppression.  It's about keeping the reins of power from falling into minority hands.  

I'd like nothing more than to live in a world where identity politics are irrelevant, because we've eliminated poverty and no matter who you're born as, you have the same shot as anyone else.  But that isn't the America of 2008 or any previous time.  Until it is, one type of voting (obviously dependent on individual voters' motivations) is racist, while the other is not.

None of this means any particular Clinton supporter is racist, nor does it apply to the candidate herself, or to her campaign.  But 30 MILLION people have voted in this Democratic primary, and some did so with bigoted motivations.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 01:34:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (2.00 / 1)

Thank you.

I've been trying to make the point all along that blacks have been voting for Obama, not against Clinton.

And of course they have the right to. The history of this country demands nothing less.

I strongly reject the notion that they're wrong to do so. However, I also strongly reject the notion that Bill Clinton's non-existent racism had very much to do with it.

Bill Clinton may be a lot of things, but he isn't politically stupid. And there are few things stupider politically than insulting black people in the Democratic primary.


by OrangeFur on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:02:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (none / 0)

I do NOT think the Clintons are racist.  But when you're followed by cameras all day every day, you're bound to put your foot in your mouth.  Something can seem racist, even if the intent was otherwise, because we've all got our ears trained for  potentially racist/sexist things coming from these campaigns and the media, simply because of the nature of this particular campaign.

I think a lot would have been resolved if Clinton, after the Jesse Jackson comment, had simply apologized for those offended and had explained what he meant by it, but the idea that he had said something truly racist was probably so foreign to his being that it never occurred to him that it would really get a foothold.


No way. No how. No McCain.
by freedom78 on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:53:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Racism is no player at all, right.. (2.00 / 2)

Honestly, I don't know what to make of that question. Of course people always say that race and sex don't mean anything, and then you see these huge disparities between the races and sexes.

A lot of us are simply unaware of our own biases, or are somewhat aware but in denial.

For the people who answered yes, I don't know if they're simply more honest than some others, or if they were just joking around with the pollster, or what.


by OrangeFur on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:13:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is one of my favorite diaries by you (2.00 / 6)

Rec'd.  I encourage everyone to rec.

:-)


Lifelong Democrat, civil rights advocate, former volunteer for Dem candidates. Now Independent.
by BPK80 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:42:12 PM EST

Re: This is one of my favorite diaries by you (2.00 / 1)

thank you ;)


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:59:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Maybe. . . (none / 0)

I do agree that Obama supporters should be more magnanimous here and in general on the blogosphere.  I entirely disagree with everyone who says MSM is in the bag for Obama.  Before Iowa it was all about Clinton.  Because of the upset it was all about Obama.  During Tuzla-gate it was all about Clinton in a bad way.  After Wright, it was all about Obama in a very bad way.  So the media is fickle, I don't agree that every reporter is in the bag for Obama.

Secondly, regarding Obama supporters, when Clinton was doing well, many people here had not problem uprating comments dismissing Obama supporters as kool-aid drinkers and rock star groupies.  I never expected Hillary Clinton to denounce and reject each and everyone of her supporters who jumped the shark.  I've never heard her denounce Taylor Marsh, or Hillaryis44.com which at times border on blatant racism.  And I don't expect her to comment on them.

So to expect Obama to come out and tell people on MyDD or Dailykos that they should be nicer to Clinton supporters is a bit of a double standard.


by shalca on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:46:30 PM EST

Re: Maybe. . . (none / 0)

Excellent points, there. Though I am a bit reticent on being "magnanimous" given some of the attitudes I've been on the receiving end of from Clinton supporters- but I know it's much ado about nothing, given this is all internet-land and it's easy to be jerks in this anonymous forum.


Serious question- Is This Snark?
by ragekage on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:16:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe. . . (2.00 / 2)

There is difference. Digby, who is non-partisan in this race, has had to shut down comments when she said something critical of Obama because Obama supproters kept calling her a cunt. Taylor Marsh has had to shut down comments as well - and Taylor is not really hard on obama. She is pro-Clinton and has concerns about Obama that she articulates - but unfair? No, not ever. Tavis Smiley's elderly mother was threatened because Tavis calleld obama out. John Lewis was "harassed" for supporting Clinton. Jesse Jackson Jr. went on tv and accused Clinton of being racist, and then threatened super delegates with primary challenges if they didn't support Obama.

Those things don't happen with the Clinton camp. No one has to shut down commetns because of Clinton supporters. No one's elderly parents are threatened by Clinton supporters.

And then there is Randi Rhodes - a nationally syndicated talk show host, who has endorsed Obama, entertaining for a radio station that has endorsed Obama, her appearance organized by obama supporters and advertised for Obama supporters on Obama's website - she called Clinton a "fucking whore" over and over again while Obama supporters laughed uproariously. Obama didn't have the minimum level of 20th century couth to walk out, grab the nearest camera crew and say ' Senator Clinton, my apologies. I'm as appalled as you are that diatribe took place in my name. to my supporters, I expect you to refrain from blatant misogyny just as I would expect my opponents to restrain their supporters from blatant racism." No such denunciation from Obama.

Now tell - name one website that has shut down comments because of Clinton supporters. Name one talk show host whose family has been threatened by Clinton supporters. Name one campaign operative that has threatened SD's on national television with primary challenges. Name one elderly feminist who has been harassed by Clinton supporters for supporting Obama. And then tell me the name of a nationally syndicated talk show host who has referred to Michelle Obama as a "stupid, fucking whore" for the pleasure of Clinton supporters. If you can't come up with any answers to those questions, then the abuses have not been egalitarian in nature.


by Little Otter on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:53:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

As I remember... (none / 0)

..this was a fundraiser for Green 960 the local SF Progressive station and had no official affiliation with the Obama Campaign.  And he was not even in attendence there , as might be implied by this post.


"You might well think that. I couldn't possibly comment"
by xenontab on Sat May 10, 2008 at 01:13:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: As I remember... (none / 0)

to refortify your memory, it was allegedy a fundraiser for a radio station which has endorsed Obama, organized by several pro-Obama groups for obama supporters, with the entertainment provided by Randi Rhodes who has endorsed Obama and advertised on a website provided by Obama to his supporters. yes, obama should apologize if he expects Clinton supporters to support him.


by Little Otter on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:06:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama supporters should not be 'magnanimous' (none / 0)

which by the way is a joke term for 'ripping you off', did you know that?

They should simply shut up, because the campaign isn'y over yet. Hillary is a lot closer to Obama in votes than the Obama team wants us to realize and they are trying to get the election over now before a number of events come up that could fall in Hillary's favor.

Isn't it obvious. Hillary is not sweating it. Obama is.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Ep isode.aspx?sched=1242
Confused by the 'Bailout' Lies?
Listen to NPR's The Giant Pool of Money
by architek on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:50:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Last time I looked .... (none / 0)

At realclearpolitics, Obama was ahead in contested primary votes by 700,000, and is 164 delgates away from getting the nomination.  (leading her by 163 delgates).   Seems like a prety good lead to me


"You might well think that. I couldn't possibly comment"
by xenontab on Sat May 10, 2008 at 11:15:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe. . . (none / 0)

First, some of your diatribe is through a rather biased lens.  For example, you say Taylor is not really hard on Obama.  This is one of the bloggers that pushed finger-gate and still hasn't updated her blog to say it wasn't what she implied it was.  

Clearly both sides have extremes.  The fact of the matter is, you don't want to get into an argument about whose supporters are worse.  I could pull some crap off of Taylor Marsh and Hillaryis44.com that would make people cringe.  My point is I don't equate those people with Hillary Clinton and I don't expect her to apologize for someone else's illogical hatred.  So I think it's a double standard to expect differently from Obama.


by shalca on Sat May 10, 2008 at 01:14:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe. . . (2.00 / 1)

Oh, no, I do want to get in to a discussion about. Let's go. Please, point us to a non-partisan (as far as the primary goes) site that has had to shut down comments because of abuse from Clinton supporters. Show us an elderly parent who was threatened by Clinton supporters. Show us elderly women leaving caucuses in tears after being harassed by Clinton supporters. Show us a talk show host referring to Michelle as a stupid fucking whore over and over again while Clinton supporters  laugh.

Yes, i want to get into it because Obama supporters are the ugliest, most revolting Democrats I've ever met. You're gonna cmpare finger-gate to Clinton, who has spent her life in service to lower income families of alll colors, being accused of racism? I've seen the footage, I think he was giving her the finger because that's the kind of puerile, dumbass level Obama functions at. I've raised boys. They always put two fingers up when they do it. the difference being my sons were 14 when they did that shit and Obama is a grown man.

You  dont' expect Clinton to apologize for anonymous supporters on website she doesn't finance. I do expect Obama to apologize when nationally syndicated talk show hosts who have endorsed, performing at an event organized by his supporters, for his supporters on behalf of a radio station which has endorsed and advertised on his campaign site (and no, the fact that anybody  can post anything on it, doesn't mean it isn't his website). I do expect Obama to impart to his supprooters that calling Digby a cunt and Clinton a fucking whore is unacceptable. Of course, that would require some level of maturity and grace on Obama's part and we are talking about a man whose wife thinks it's funny to joke about scratching Bill Clinton's eyes out. Clearly, neither Michelle nor Barry functions at the level of emotional maturity necessary to do those things.

But please, tell us which nationally syndicated talk show host has called Michelle a stupid, fucking whore at an event to entertain clinton supporters. Tell us which Clinton cochair has threatened SDs with primary challenges. We aren't talking about anonymous posters on unrelated boards. Although, along that line, which boards have had to shut down because of harassment by Clinton  supporters.

Go ahead - answer the questions. Bet you can't.


by Little Otter on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:04:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe. . . (none / 0)

You're kidding me right?  Just this week CBS News had to shut down their comments on Obama stories because of the racists comments that were being made.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2007/05/04/ publiceye/entry2761854.shtml

Now I'm not going to repeat some of the shit that was said there by Clinton supporters, but please don't try to argue that one side is somehow worse than the other side.


by shalca on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:41:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe. . . (2.00 / 1)

Obama's side is much worse than clinton's witnessed by the fact that you can't come up with a single site that's had to shut down comments because of Clinton supporters. Next, show us an example of a nationally known entertainer, entertaining Clinton supporters at an event organized by Clinton supporters and advertised on Clinton's site  calling Michelle Obama "a stupid fucking whore" while the Clinton supporters laugh. Show us an example of Clinton supporters calling up the elderly mother of an obama supporter and threatening her as Obama supporters did to Tavis Smiley's mother. Show us an example of Clinton supporters "harassing" an elderly feminist who supports Obama.

You can't. And you can't because Clinton supporters are one helluva lot better behaved than Obama supporters.


by Little Otter on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:06:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe. . . (none / 0)

You need to calm down, take a step back and look at what you're saying.  You sound full of hatred.  It took two seconds to "come up with a single site that's had to shut down comments because of Clinton supporters."  CBSnews.  I'm not going to scour the internets for the nastiest examples of Clinton supporters, and that's not because they're not out there, we all come across nasty people from either side.  THEY DON'T MATTER.


by shalca on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:11:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe. . . (2.00 / 2)

Awww, you got your little feelers hurt. The fact of the matter is taht Obama's supporters behave much, much worse than Clinton supporters. If they behaved even half as badly, you wouldn't have to scour the internet. It would be easy to find and you'd already  be aware of it.

Obama supporters have behaved like bullies. they've used racism and misogyny to intimidate and harass people - mostly because the candidate himself doesn't have an actual record to run on, so what else can they do.

Step back? I'm happy to. But that doesn't mean your side hasn't behaved like school yard bullies.


by Little Otter on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:15:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

off topic.... (none / 0)

but i have to mojo you for

"Awww, you got your little feelers hurt"


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:18:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: off topic.... (none / 0)

I figure the closest thing MyDD has to private messaging is a reply to an old old comment that will only be seen in the feedback page. Dunno if you check that, but figured it was worth a shot. What the hell happened the other night? Hide-rate this comment to keep it private if you like.


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 08:41:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: off topic.... (none / 0)

well - it started with this (even though it got much worse after this cached version).  and then this.

sharing of RL info or going after someone you don't agree with is not cool.


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that I reach for my feather Boa!" Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 10:43:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: off topic.... (2.00 / 1)

Gotcha. Yeah, that is one of the taboos of message boards. Still better than what I thought, that he was posting phone numbers, pictures, etc. He still shouldn't run away, though. That doesn't help anything. Sad.

And I feel bad myself, because the line he crossed isn't that far from the one I tread. I think the only person that can actually do anything about this is Obama himself. I hope to hell he has some kind of plan. Seems like it from the crazy brass-balls move he made this week.

I'm amazed that this comment thing worked, though. I'm very proud of myself. Nice talking to you!


"Tell me about your work ethic." "Well, I don't think ethnics do no work. I mean, that's they problem, really." "Overt racial prejudice. Impressive."
by vcalzone on Sat Jun 14, 2008 at 01:14:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe. . . (none / 0)

why do you assume that the racist comments at the CBS site were from Clinton supporters??  really....why do you assume that??


by jentwisl on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:29:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Maybe. . . (none / 0)

Taylor Marsh is not unfair to Obama?  Words fail me.


by interestedbystander on Sat May 10, 2008 at 03:44:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]