[Update] Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in November!

If Obama wins the nomination (and it looks like he will now), everyone who voted for Hillary in the primary needs to vote for John McCain in November. It makes perfect sense. Hillary, as we all know, is a policy wonk. She has a firm grasp and is well versed on all the issues that matter most to Americans. That is the appeal of the Hillary candidacy. It has nothing to do with the symbolism or historical significance of a woman president; it's not a white person thing; it has nothing to do with her husband's presidency. It's all about policy.

So let's examine the issues and the stances taken by all three candidates. Afterwards you will all understand very clearly why Hillary supporters could never vote for Barack Obama and must defect to John McCain in November: All data gathered from OnTheIssues.org, except where otherwise linked. All Boldface print indicates where the candidates agree.

ABORTION
Hillary Clinton: Strong Pro-Choice
  • Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
  • Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
  • Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
Barack Obama: Strong Pro-Choice
  • Voted against banning partial birth abortion. (Oct 2007)
  • Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
  • Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
John McCain: Strong to Moderate Pro-Life
  • Supports repealing Roe v. Wade. (May 2007)
  • Voted YES on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
  • Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines.
  • (Apr 2007)

BUDGET & ECONOMY
Hillary Clinton: Supports Federally Funded Programs and Government Intervention to Regulate Markets
  • Help people facing foreclosure; don't just bail-out banks. (Aug 2007)
  • Voted NO on paying down federal debt by rating programs' effectiveness. (Mar 2007)
  • Voted NO on $40B in reduced federal overall spending. (Dec 2005)
Barack Obama: Supports Federally Funded Programs and Government Intervention to Regulate Markets
  • Regulate financial instruments to protect home mortgages. (Aug 2007)
  • Voted NO on paying down federal debt by rating programs' effectiveness. (Mar 2007)
  • Voted NO on $40B in reduced federal overall spending. (Dec 2005)
John McCain: Free Market Capitalist - Generally Opposes Federally Funded Government Programs
  • "it is not the duty of government to bail out and reward those who act irresponsibly, whether they are big banks or small borrowers" (March 2007)
  • Voted YES on $40B in reduced federal overall spending. (Dec 2005)
  • "Congress spends money like a drunken sailor." (May 2007)

EDUCATION
Hillary Clinton: Supports Federal Funding of National Education Initiatives
  • Voted YES on shifting $11B from corporate tax loopholes to education. (Mar 2005)
  • Supports Universal pre-kindergarten (Aug 2007)
  • Voted YES on $5B for grants to local educational agencies. (Oct 2005)
Barack Obama: Supports Federal Funding of National Education Initiatives
  • Voted YES on $5B for grants to local educational agencies. (Oct 2005)
  • Voted YES on shifting $11B from corporate tax loopholes to education. (Mar 2005)
  • Nationwide program to reconstruct crumbling school buildings. (Sep 2007)
John McCain: Favors "School Choice" and Vouchers Over Federal Programs; Does Not Oppose Teaching Creationism in Public Schools
  • Charters, homeschooling, & vouchers are key to success. (Dec 2007)
  • Teaching creationism should be decided by school districts. (Jun 2007)
  • Voted NO on $5B for grants to local educational agencies.
(Oct 2005)

HEALTH CARE
Hillary Clinton: Supports a Government Sponsored National Health Care Program with Mandates
  • Universal health care coverage by the end of second term. (Feb 2007)
  • American Health Choices Plan: keep yours or pick Congress'. (Sep 2007)
  • Voted YES on requiring negotiated Rx prices for Medicare part D. (Apr 2007)
Barack Obama: Supports a Government Sponsored National Health Care Program with Limited Mandates
  • Mandates Advocates mandates for health coverage of all children under the age of 18
  • Proposes a federally funded healthcare like members of Congress have. (Sep 2007)
  • Voted YES on requiring negotiated Rx prices for Medicare part D. (Apr 2007)
John McCain: Opposes any form of Universal or Large-Scale Federally Funded Health Care
  • No mandated universal system; no mandated insurance coverage. (Jun 2006)
  • Supports tax-free medical savings accounts & tax credits. (Nov 2004)
  • Voted NO on expanding enrollment period for Medicare Part D. (Feb 2006)

IRAQ WAR
Hillary Clinton: Advocates Ending the War in Iraq and Withdrawing Troops
  • Absolutely oppose the war in Iraq. (Oct 2007)
  • Deauthorize Iraq war, and don't grant new war authority. (Jun 2007)
  • Goal to remove all troops from Iraq by 2013, but no pledge. (Sep 2007)
Barack Obama: Advocates Ending the War in Iraq and Withdrawing Troops
  • Opposed the resolution authorizing the President to go to war. (Jul 2004)
  • Surge has not succeeded because it ignores political issues. (Sep 2007)
  • Hopes to remove all troops from Iraq by 2013, but no pledge. (Sep 2007)
John McCain: Favors Remaining in Iraq Until "The Mission is Finished" (i.e., 100 Years)
  • Democrats proposing failure in Iraq by withdrawing. (Sep 2007)
  • Surge is working; let it continue until it succeeds. (Sep 2007)
  • The Iraqi war was necessary, achievable and noble. (Aug 2004)

Now do you understand? Now is it clear? Hillary supporters are a natural fit for John McCain. As you can see in this brief sample of five major issues, Hillary and McCain are in complete agreement in... ummm....nevermind. Whatever. The point is that we are unswayed by the petty rhetorical nastiness of a hard fought primary. We are serious voters, and we understand the high stakes for this country in the next four years. We want a president who is on the right side of all the issues, and if it can't be Hillary then that president will be....uh.....John McCain.
[UPDATE: End of Snark]
I'd like to address two things:

First, I am encouraged by how many Hillary supporters have responded to this post positively and in good spirits. This diary was cross-posted and hit the Recommended List on Daily Kos as well, but only remained on the Rec list for appx 8 hours there and never hit the top. Here, at MyDD, it hit the top of the rec list quickly and has remained rec'd for over 24 hours now. This could not have happened if many Hillary supporters were not sympathetic to the message conveyed through this snark.

Second, I want to apologize to any Hillary supporter who found this diary to be offensive. My intention in writing this was not to offend or to hurt anyone's feelings. When I said, "[Hillary's candidacy] has nothing to do with the symbolism or historical significance of a woman president; it's not a white person thing; it has nothing to do with her husband's presidency. It's all about policy," I was using this as an assumption that most reasonably minded people can agree on. It was not meant as an ironic or backhanded way of inferring that the appeal of Hillary's candidacy is actually insubstantial or trivial.

This diary was aimed at those of us who base our voting habits upon reason, i.e., upon the positions a candidate takes on the issues. It is to these people that this diary was addressed. Some (probably not many) former Hillary supporters will back McCain because they actually do agree with McCain on many issues against Obama. I completely respect that. For those of you whose voting habits are primarily influenced by emotional attachments, symbolism, campaign rhetoric, or any other non-issue oriented factor that will have no bearing on what direction this country takes in the next four years, nothing anyone says will influence whether or not you vote for your party's ultimate nominee. If you are eventually swayed it will likely be the result of some other emotional impulse or non-substantive reason.

Thanks to everyone who rec'd this diary, and also to everyone who took the time to share their thoughts in the comments below.

Display:


Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (2.00 / 23)

This absolutely needed to be said. Kudos to you, sir.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:55:05 PM EST

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (1.40 / 5)

WALTER MONDALE SUPPORTS HILLARY CLINTON!!!!

Sorry, there's this irritating lie going around that he supports Obama, and DTaylor is so busy spreading it below and trying to disrupt the diary that this was the only place I could think of mentioning that.


by Mostly on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:37:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (2.00 / 1)

Rec it up, people!


John McCain
by Mandoliniment on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:46:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (2.00 / 2)

i am a strong Hillary supporter and I recommended this diary. However let me point this out clearly. I think a lot of Hillary supporters are going to wait and see what steps the Obama campaign takes to unify the party. At this time, the party is essentially split down the middle. We can't win unless unless we have a united party. The ball is Obama's court now. He has to show he can provide the necessary leadership to bring unity to the party. If he can't complete that task, then how is he going to unify the nation, and be the leader of the free world.


Definition of a republican moderate---someone who want's only 50 years in Iraq.
by pollbuster on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:11:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (none / 0)

I'd say it's probably split more like about 70/30% right now given the huge buyer's remorse out of California and New Jersey as well as the massive SD defections for Obama, but point noted.


by zadura on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:38:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (2.00 / 2)

I'm not talking about the so called superdelegates, I'm talking about the people that are going to be voting in November. Do you think we need a unified party or do you think ou have it made in the shade right now?


Definition of a republican moderate---someone who want's only 50 years in Iraq.
by pollbuster on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:44:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The buyers remorse is about Obama, I know (1.22 / 9)

many who voted for him have changed their minds.

He couldn't win in red-state Indiana even though its in his backyard, literally 15 minutes from his house. Plus he had a HUGE money advantage.

He's lost Republicans, working-class whites, he has big trouble with hispanics.

I can't imangine McCain not winning. This was another dumb choice.

I can't vote for McCain but neither can I votge for a man who FALSELY tars the former president and first lady with racism.

I will be sitting on my hands in November, good luck!!!!


by mmorang on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:45:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The buyers remorse is about Obama, I know (2.00 / 4)

For the last time: Please show us a single instance where Obama said that either of the Clintons are racist.


by not Brit on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:13:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

no, he sent his surrogates to do so (2.00 / 1)

and conveniently "distanced himself" from those remarks.


by 4justice on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:14:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I see. (2.00 / 2)

And Hillary never does that.


John McCain: He flunked ECON 101.
by Shem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:18:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The buyers remorse is about Obama, I know (1.00 / 2)

You have to lie to yourself to make yourself believe your childish, destructive tantrum is a noble, principled stand?

I guess I can't stop you.

But you can't make it anything but a childish, destructive tantrum.

It's a damn shame your vote counts as much as that of people who take it seriously.


by BlueinColorado on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:36:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The buyers remorse is about Obama, I know (none / 0)

Childish? Destructive? Tantrum?

Yes. Yes. And yes.


by BlueinColorado on Sat May 10, 2008 at 02:44:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (none / 0)

where did you get that number?  you don't even live in California???  We don't have problem electing a female President; we are not sexist; we elected female Congressman (B. boxer, Dianne Feinstein) and Speaker Pelosi.

We have a Republican Governor who is supporting John McCain....  Obama will not win in California.


by SHIBAM8P on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:36:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (2.00 / 2)

"Obama will not win in California"

Arnold will command people to vote for McCain, just like he did with the propositions he supported that all went down the drain.

California will support the Democratic candidate. Obama can win here.


A President in a league of his own, the Bush League!
by Tuba Les on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:50:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain the unifer? (1.33 / 6)

Does that mean you think John McCain would be better to unify the nation than Obama?  


by Virginia Liberal on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:58:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain the unifer? (1.40 / 5)

Does that mean Obama is a better divider of the Democratic party than John McCain?

Look how dumb you come across now.


by Sandeep on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:36:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain the unifer? (2.00 / 1)

Your statement makes no sense to me. But I will say this, if Obama isn't enough to unify the party, McCain sure as hell is. If 8 years of Bush aren't enough for you, don't blame Obama or anyone else for your porblems. or maybe your one of those people who doesn't "need a president."


by AllergicToBS on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:53:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain the unifer? (2.00 / 3)

I have an answer for this, but I won't say it because i woud likely get it troll rated. However, suffice it to say, your comment is a perfect example of why we need to unify this party. If we can't get away from seeing anything but hostility in the comments of others, then I think this party is in a lot of trouble.


Definition of a republican moderate---someone who want's only 50 years in Iraq.
by pollbuster on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:38:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain the unifer? (2.00 / 3)

What I think will unify the Party, is when women realize they can kiss goodbye Roe V Wade.


by cruz del sur on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:08:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain the unifer? (none / 0)

It didn't get Gore elected. It didn't get Kerry elected. I wouldn't count on it. It's going to take a lot more to unify this party then empty threats.


Definition of a republican moderate---someone who want's only 50 years in Iraq.
by pollbuster on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:41:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Yep (none / 0)

Being sarcastic in every line of the diary and mocking our concerns with your candidate.

That'll help you win votes!


by daria g on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:30:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (none / 0)

It sure will, of anyone who's open-minded. If you're closed minded and bound and determined to hate, well, I guess there's not much that can be done.


Hooray for John McCain!
by ragekage on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:17:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (none / 0)

Well played!


by Philoguy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:35:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (none / 0)

wow, 25 hide ratings.  Ive never seen so many.

You are the master troll.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Sat May 10, 2008 at 10:43:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (2.00 / 6)

All these confusing facts...


by Lawyerish on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:56:14 PM EST

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (2.00 / 2)

Oh please rec this.


by Mostly on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:56:34 PM EST

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (1.28 / 14)

Remember why this is important.

Because the liberal wing nominated Mondale.
Because the liberal wing nominated Dukakis.
Because Gore couldn't win.
Because Kerry couldn't win.

Not because in 8 years Bill Clinton got our guys in.

the issue is who can win.

We as a party have tolerated the losers for far too long.

THAT IS WHAT CREATED THIS SUPREAM COURT MESS.


by DTaylor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:56:44 PM EST

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (1.60 / 5)

Far better to send a clear resounding message that the division of the anti DLC at all cost wing of the party cannot be tolerated.

If Obama wins there will be more of the same from Dailykos.


by DTaylor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:58:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (1.33 / 3)

They will value recently GOP voters over loyal democrats and they will go on ideological witch hunts against whoever they view as impure while begging GOP voters to register for a day.


by DTaylor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:59:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (1.90 / 10)

I have no idea what the F*#$ youre talking about.

On one hand you're saying Obama is too liberal to be elected.  On the other, he's courting Republican votes?  

I thought Clinton was the one talking about guns and religion...


by ckd5555 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:01:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (2.00 / 1)

Count the GOP votes.  Overwhelmingly for Obama.


by DTaylor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:02:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If you like John McCain, (2.00 / 5)

we can't stop you from voting for him.  You're just not making much of an argument for why he's better than Obama.


by McNasty on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:09:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (2.00 / 7)

So those Republicans are too liberal?? OMGWTFBBQ???


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:11:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (1.00 / 3)

Ignore the twit and laugh at her later.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:03:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (2.00 / 4)

Do you always have conversations with yourself?


by parahammer on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:01:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (1.50 / 2)

And just like we would have had the supream court issue earlier if not for Bill Clinton we will have the same supream court issue with Obama because the backlash like the one to Carter will HURT our position with the Supream court long term.


by DTaylor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:02:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hey DTaylor (none / 0)

it is Supreme not Supream, one typo I can understand , but please fix it for your next post.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:04:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I kinda like supream better (1.00 / 1)

dtaylor, you are a funny motherfucker. keep up the good work.


by bookish on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:00:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I kinda like supream better (none / 0)

Laughable isn't always funny.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:05:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Trust me (1.00 / 1)

I'm not laughing with him...

MyDD has become a parody of itself. I'm just trying a different tack now. We know where this is going. I'm just taking a lighter approach because there's going to be a lot of hurt very soon, and it's not really worth it to fight teh stupid anymore.


by bookish on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:23:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trust me (2.00 / 2)

I know.  I have tried to back off.  Sometimes the bait is harder to resist than the damned "History Eraser Button":



Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:52:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

BTW, Obama just got his 8th SD today. n/t (2.00 / 3)


by bookish on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:54:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And I loved that episode (none / 0)

Thanks for the memory. Happy, happy, joy, joy.


by bookish on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:55:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trust me (1.00 / 1)

The "hurt" will begin when Obama loses the GE


"Little Distractions Become Major Attractions" - How can you possibly win?
by ctmayor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:50:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Trust me (2.00 / 3)

That is an "if" not a "when"... regardless of what any of you Kreskin-types keep pulling out of your collective backsides, the general election is still months away and polling data right now is simply unreliable.

Not only is it an "if", it's a really huge "if"... McCain is a weak candidate...


Like the nominee, don't like the nominee... Our nominee is still better than John McCain...
by JenKinFLA on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:41:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Well, let's talk about it then (none / 0)

As far as I know, neither you nor I can see the future, and I'm betting your instinct has about the same overall success rate as mine.


by bookish on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:04:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What hurts your position. (none / 0)

Misspelling "supreme" over and over.


by McNasty on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:05:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What hurts your position. (none / 0)

Hmmmm


by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:21:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What hurts your position. (2.00 / 1)

That and being bat shit crazy all of the time.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:05:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (2.00 / 1)

And again-- Obama supporters are troll rating comments, not because they are abusive, but because they disagree.

What rot!


by bellarose on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:58:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't take kindly to idiocy and fear (1.80 / 5)

and you are pushing fear today DTaylor.

I will stay civil because you are generally coherent (unlike internetstar for example).


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:01:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't take kindly to idiocy and fear (1.40 / 5)

Don't fear history.

Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry are the reason we have a supream court problem.

They all back Obama.

Don't fear history.

Embrace it.  Learn from it.


by DTaylor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:04:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I think Reagan and Bush (2.00 / 4)

are the reason we have a problematic Supreme Court.


by McNasty on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:05:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

First off (2.00 / 3)

it is Supreme not supream (with the continued typos you aren't helping yoru case)  Second the I'm voting McCain because I feel hurt by X,Y,Z is fear.  Every voter is entitled to their own opinions but your loud and clear sharing of it is trying to push people via fear.  Try saying what you like about Sen. Clinton instead of bashing, you will be more effective.


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:12:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

DLC backed Gore and Kerry (2.00 / 1)

The DLC isnt running the show anymore, thank god.

The 50% + 1 strategy is officially dead.

The 50 state strategy is now in play.

Not having to apologize for being a progressive is going to be great, just try to enjoy it.


by BlueGenes on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:01:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't take kindly to idiocy and fear (2.00 / 1)

Walter Mondale is a superdelegate for Hillary Rodham Clinton.

Might want to try this little neat idea called "fact-checking" before posting more drivel.


by Obamaphile on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:05:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I don't take kindly to idiocy and fear (2.00 / 1)

"We don't take kindly to folks who don't take kindly round here"


by Why Not on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:11:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Supreme Court (2.00 / 11)

When your children ask you why women no longer have control over their own bodies, tell them "Far better to send a clear resounding message that the division of the anti DLC at all cost wing of the party cannot be tolerated."


by SupremeCourt on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:01:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Supreme Court (2.00 / 1)

word.


by j cantarella on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:19:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Cuckoo cuckoo (2.00 / 2)

The funny part is that during her bat shit rant she gives Obama supporters crap about not liking the republican light (DLC) wing of the the party and then characterizes us as a bunch of republican crossovers right afterwards.



Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:15:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cuckoo cuckoo (none / 0)

I am officially checking your comment log every morning after kos, here, and the onion.  Grats on making the list.  Mojo for alvin, simon, and theodore.


Congratulations Steny Hoyer! Our 2008 Chickenshit Leader Of The Year!
by RockvilleLiberal2 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:25:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Cuckoo cuckoo (none / 0)

Thanks!  Go me!

I go by the same handle at Kos.  


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:51:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Supreme Court (2.00 / 2)

Awesome vid.

The funny part is that during her bat shit rant she gives Obama supporters crap about not liking the republican light (DLC) wing of the the party and then characterizes us as a bunch of republican crossovers right afterwards.

It's all about their their disappointment over this primary. All these "I'll vote for McCain over Obama!!!1!" folks are arrogant enough to put their hurt feelings above our fundamental civil rights, above the lives of the soldiers in Iraq, above any notions of social justice. I have nothing but contempt for this.


by SupremeCourt on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:38:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (none / 0)

AMEN!


by labanman on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:06:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (2.00 / 2)

So...should the "liberal wing" of the party have sent the "DLC wing" a message in 1992 by hot voting for Clinton?

Time to get over yourself and vote for the nominee in November.


by emptythreatsfarm on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:43:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (none / 0)

"hot voting"?  How can we do that?  sounds fun!!


"Little Distractions Become Major Attractions" - How can you possibly win?
by ctmayor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:54:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (none / 0)

Typo.  

Supposed to be "not".

But maybe you're onto something.

Someone should call MTV.  It might have more appeal than "Rock the Vote".


by emptythreatsfarm on Fri May 09, 2008 at 11:37:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (none / 0)

lol


"Little Distractions Become Major Attractions" - How can you possibly win?
by ctmayor on Sat May 10, 2008 at 12:05:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (2.00 / 1)

It is not about the party, it about being liberal.
The DLC is not liberal enough. They can just go be Republican.  Getting people with (D) in is not important if they are going to defect on major issues.
Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:26:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Learn your history (1.85 / 7)

It's recent so you have no excuse.  Bill Clinton did not "get our guys in".  The Clinton years were an utter disaster for Democrats in Congress.


by JJE on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:01:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Contract with America anybody? (none / 0)

Didn't work out too well.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:23:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So are you saying (none / 0)

that Dems gained seats in Congress during the Clinton years?


by JJE on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:18:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Learn your history (none / 0)

Learn your history

or how to use google

Ruth Bader Ginsburg   

Stephen Breyer


by DTaylor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:36:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Learn your history (none / 0)

I said Congress.  Ginsburg and Breyer are on the Supreme Court and thus irrelevant.


by JJE on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:17:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Learn your history (none / 0)

Though I generally agree with your comments, I do not agree that it was Clinton's fault we lost seats.  Sure, the lack of action in the 92-94 congress helped a lot, but that cannot be tied completely to Clinton.  Instead the GOP landslide stemmed from decades of Dem dominance in the House and a strong Dem control in general in the Senate.  With the rise of Gingrich and the Moral Majority + Contract with America, the GOP was able to dupe voters.  The way they did this was by in the years previous to 94, they built a massive network of voters and a huge list of potential GOP voters, who they brought out in swarms.  The GOP revolutionized how parties motivate people to vote, and THATS why they won.  

I do love the idea of Obama as pres, but I won't support baseless comments.


Vote Change in '08!
by iowa dem on Sat May 10, 2008 at 06:29:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]

That's because they were voted out BEFORE (1.00 / 1)

Clinton's economic package kicked in.

Bill Clinton left office with the highest approval rating ever recorded. That is a fact.

He had a record that Democrats could build on. If Ronald Reagan had his economic numbers his face would have been carved on Mt. Rushmore already.

How do you think Bill Clinton's foundation was able to raise enough money to provide FREE AIDS medicine to MILLIONS of blacks in Africa? Because people respected the job he did as president.

And Obama trashes him and his record and FALSELY conflated it with Gearge Bush. Obama has also decided it necessary to play the race card on both Clinton's.

I will not vote for Obama or McCain in November. I don't like McCain's policies and I don't respect race-bators.


by mmorang on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:22:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Even if that were true, so what? (2.00 / 1)

The fact remains that Democrats in Congress fared poorly during Clinton's term.  Clinton accomplished many great things, but he also had some weaknesses that cannot be wished away.


by JJE on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:49:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: That's because they were voted out BEFORE (2.00 / 1)

one more time. please show me a link with a quote in which barack obama accuses bill clinton of being racist. or shut the fuck up.


by jbill on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:26:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (2.00 / 3)

Well actually that isn't the issue anymore in the Democratic Party.

Obama is the nominee.  Chosen because he has more Superdelegates, pledged delegates, states and popular vote.

The issue is:  will Democrats support the Democratic nominee over the Republican nominee.


by rf7777 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:03:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (none / 0)

And in doing so insure that the pattern that created our Supreme court issues are continued.

Or will the party clearly show that having the GOP nominate our candidate over a majority party supported candidate is unacceptable.


by DTaylor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:33:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (none / 0)

The battle to change the primary process.
There's your beef.

I'll support you.

But who will get them message that a vote for McCain is about the DLC? Hillary doesn't want you to do that.


by holder on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:54:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (1.85 / 7)

If you want to put a stop to something with your vote in November, try putting an end to neo-fucking-conservatism.  Later for your sour grapes tantrum.  We need our civil liberties back right the hell now.  We need criminal behavior, war crimes, and murderous imperialism to be the reason the GOP gets its ass whipped horribly in November.  We need the democratic nominee to be president so that our democratic legislative majorities can give us back habeas corpus without which we have exactly none of our other rights.

Barack Obama is going to be the nominee.  I know that you don't like that.  Fine.  I get it.  I cannot stand Hilary Clinton.  I am exactly that wing of the democratic party that would rather see just about anything, but a DLCer elected.  I would have voted for Hilary had she won.  When the freedoms that have always defined our country are at stake we cannot afford for our fight to be about which style of democratic philosophy you prefer.  We haven't that luxury right now.  Pretending that we do can cost us the entire history of our country form 1776.  

Yes, it is exactly that severe of a circumstance.  The DOJ has been turned into a tool of political persecution.  Unitary executive has created the closest thing to a monarchy that has ever been in this country.  The president is spying on americans while the FBI abuses it's national security letters.  The Pentagon is buying retired military officers to spread propaganda via the national media.  This is precisely how one goes about dismantling Jeffersonian Government and installing a totalitarian regime.

If you must insist on pretending that this election can be about anything other than getting the damn democratic nominee into The White House well then shame on you.  I want my 2 toddlers to grow up in America, not some country that occupies the same space on the globe, waves the same flag, and goes by the same name but IS NOT AMERICA.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:41:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Agree with almost everything you said (2.00 / 3)

except for your choice of candidate. ;-) And I can live with that, because it's too damn important to get the GOP out of control of our country to not support the Dem candidate!

Even if it hurts.


by Swedie on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:06:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Agree with almost everything you said (none / 0)

You're alright by me Swedie.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:08:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Have thee some mojo... (2.00 / 2)

... because that was a tough and admirable thing to say ...


"Mom, baseball, apple pie, and a unified Democratic juggernaut."
by Purplepeople on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:29:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (none / 0)

Wait.

Your logic:

Voting for Obama in November insures that our Supreme Court issues continue.

Yet, Voting for McCain and allowing him to put in new, young CONSERVATIVE justices who will be on the bench for the next 30 or 40 years takes care of it.

Yeah... it takes care of it in the way that we won't likely break that lock in our lifetimes, so we don't need to worry about it.


If you are not voting Obama, please let me know so I can replace your sorry ass with another new voter.
by Darknesse on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:01:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Democrats don't have to support a candidate who (1.00 / 1)

actively works to prevent a revote and doesn't want the original vote counted. Democrats also don't have to support a man who plays the race card on the former president and first lady.

I will not vote for McCain or Obama.


by mmorang on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:24:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Democrats don't have to support a candidate who (1.00 / 1)

actively works to prevent a revote and doesn't want the original vote counted. Democrats also don't have to support a man who plays the race card on the former president and first lady.

I will not vote for McCain or Obama.


by mmorang on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:39:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Democrats don't have to support a candidate wh (2.00 / 1)

your facts are wrong. please correct them.


by jbill on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:29:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hillary Supporters - Vote for McCain in Novemb (2.00 / 4)

From here it just looks like you are SUPREAM-LY stupid.  Obama has won more votes, states, pledged delegates and now superdelegates.  He leads in every metric imaginable.  Now, how the HELL can you make the argument that she will be more successful in the fall?  

She can't even win her own primary.  Her campaign is completely broke, with over $15 million in debt.  Obama has more cash than he knows what to do with.  Hillary polarizes Republicans and Independents, Obama draws votes from Republicans and Independents.  

Your argument has no legs left to stand on.  Hillary lost, lets focus on winning in 2008.  Not her early campaign planning for 2012.  Also, learn how to spell.


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:03:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disaster (1.33 / 6)

Belicheat,

Too bad most " registered Democrats" don't agree with you.

Too bad majority of white, Latino, & Asian Democrats don't agree with you.

How in the world can a candidate who is being supported by 92% of a racial group who happens to be 35%-40% of all democrats, Not Win ???

How ???

How in the world can you expect a nominee to win the general election when within his own party:

65% of whites did NOT vote for him
72% of Latinos did NOT vote for him
78% of Asians did NOT vote for him

Within his very own party !!!

Can you imagine when we get to the General Election.

This is the SAME Bull Crap Coalition that gave us
McGovern, Mondale & Dukakis.

The results will be a disaster!


by labanman on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:11:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disaster (2.00 / 8)

You're right.

ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE VOTED FOR DEMOCRATS though.  Please think on that.

Performance in a primary isn't the same thing as performance in the general.  What makes you think that magically all the folks who voted for Edwards or whoever will just stay home or vote for McCain?


by Reaper0Bot0 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:14:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary is the Dukakis candidate (2.00 / 5)

and Obama is the JFK/Truman candidate.

Bradley or Gore of 2000?
Dean or Kerry?
Hart or Mondale?
Carter or Kennedy?

We chose the DLC type crap every time and LOST EVERY time.  We win elections by choosing candidates in the JFK/Truman/FDR mold.


by bigdavefromqueens on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:14:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

At last, someone with a sense (2.00 / 4)

of history.  FDR wouldn't recognize the Clinton/DLC/NAFTA gang.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:27:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: At last, someone with a sense (none / 0)

Just for the record, this is exactly the sort of thing that really turns off Clinton supporters. In the midst of this diary calling for unity and pointing out some very good reasons why we should be unified, some of you can't resist giving in to your Clinton hate and letting loose with crap like this. Do you think you might be sending a mixed message?


Yes, I am a Clintonista for Obama.
by Denny Crane on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:03:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: At last, someone with a sense (2.00 / 2)

I am not sure how this is hating on the Clintons.  They supported NAFTA. The DLC is not "liberal" we have had shifts,  but the fear the Reagan Revolution brought about in Democrats, and the "can't beat them so we will join them" of the DLC, is not traditional Democratic Party stuff.   I mean Hillary said she personally rounded up the votes to pass the Republicans 3rd version of Welfare Reform, which partially gutted FDRs "New Deal".

You get historical analysis confused with "hating". And say this sort of thing turns off Clinton supporters.  In the mean time we have deliberate falsehoods, Reqd, and Mojoed up by Clinton supporters.

I have been wrong in the past on some comments I made about Clinton, and I do devolve to vitriol sometimes.  But I have yet to see the level of lies and hatred leveled at Clinton here as I see leveled at Obama and his supporters.  We are here for political discussion, and for the most part you need disagreement to have a discusion, but here disagreement seems to get you labled as a troll, or spewing vile hatred of the Clintons.  And sometimes it is true, but far to often people are given those lables just because they disagree.


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:27:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: At last, someone with a sense (2.00 / 2)

I think I can understand the difference between historical analysis and Clinton hate. The point of this excellent diary is unity, but there seem to be plenty of folks who can't get there without taking some potshots at the Clintons first. The comments about how FDR wouldn't recognize the Clintons as Dems is no different than calling them Republicans. That's not going to unite the party - that won't even unite MyDD.

I know that there is a fool all over this thread who is supposedly a Clinton supporter, and that's what you were trying to rebut, and that's fine.  Personally, I think you shouldn't feed the troll, but that's your choice. But that one poster isn't the only one who's going to read the responses and have a reaction to them. There are plenty of morons on both sides, and it's easy to go overboard when trying to shut them up (which never works, so why try to engage someone like that).

You can call it a historical analysis if that's what you intended, but it doesn't read that way to a Clinton supporter.  It looks like a potshot.


Yes, I am a Clintonista for Obama.
by Denny Crane on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:08:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: At last, someone with a sense (none / 0)

Are you delusional?  This entire discussion became a yelling match because idiots like dtaylor keep spouting bullshit.  I don't hate the Clintons, I hate their supporters.


Congratulations Steny Hoyer! Our 2008 Chickenshit Leader Of The Year!
by RockvilleLiberal2 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:31:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: At last, someone with a sense (none / 0)

Yes, I am delusional.  Feel better now?


Yes, I am a Clintonista for Obama.
by Denny Crane on Fri May 09, 2008 at 05:40:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Two brain cells to rub together. (2.00 / 3)

So the split in the primary vote will be identical to the General Election?  You're Nostradamus!

You're saying every Clinton voter now goes to McCain.  That's beyond stupid.  Except for a few dead-enders here at MyDailyDelusion, Democrats will vote for the Democrat.


by McNasty on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:15:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Two brain cells to rub together. (2.00 / 10)

Here's one Hillary supporter who will be voting for the Democratic nominee in the fall.  Anything else is just stupidity.


The universe is a casual place, not a suit-and-tie affair.
by mtnspirit on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:33:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hmmm. (2.00 / 5)

So Obama can't win.

And Hillary can't win because she can't win young people or black voters.

And McCain can't win because he is still regularly losing 20-25% of Republicans while he is the presumptive nominee.

I guess nobody can win the Presidency in 2008!


Check out McCain.
by you like it on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:16:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmmm. (2.00 / 9)

Dan Quayle is going to pull out a squeaker.  I don't know how, but you heard it here first.


by Mostly on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:39:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Hmmm. (2.00 / 1)

Dan Quayle is going to pull out a squeaker.

Or, as he would spell it, a squeakere.


by Captain Bathrobe on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:20:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm Asian and here's why (2.00 / 2)

Unless you're Asian, don't put up any BS about what's going on with the Asian vote.

A majority the younger and educated Asian voters in my demographic (30-4) are going for Obama.  What we're fight are our immigrant parents who (like my mom and aunts) have flat out said that they'll not vote for a black man.

Will I kowtow to that type of bigotry.  Hell no.

Start your argument about Asians elsewhere.


by Regenman on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:15:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Asian and here's why (1.00 / 1)

Speak for yourself... I don't know which part of Asia are you from.  Asia is a big continent; the population is as diverse as the City of New York.

A lot of Asians I know are Republicans but wants to vote for Hillary, a Democrat.  They will not vote for Hussein Obama because they don't trust him to lead this country and not because of race.


by SHIBAM8P on Sat May 10, 2008 at 04:46:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I'm Asian and here's why (2.00 / 1)

Who the hell is Hussein Obama?


by Mostly on Sat May 10, 2008 at 07:42:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disaster (2.00 / 1)

Most of what I wanted to say has already been said by other commenters, so I'll keep it brief.

1) Primary results do not equal general election results.  This is why we didn't have President Ross Perot.

2) I'm not really sure where you are pulling your "registered democrat" facts from.  Because by every metric imaginable Obama has a majority of the popular vote.  And it was Hillary GOP voters were barnstorming our primaries to vote for.

3) Why does it not surprise me that you went racial with your argument.  It seems to be the only argument the Clintonistas have left.


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:35:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disaster (none / 0)

They are talking about white, democratic voters.  Period.  White voters without a college education which they feel will vote for hillary and hillary alone.


Congratulations Steny Hoyer! Our 2008 Chickenshit Leader Of The Year!
by RockvilleLiberal2 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:33:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disaster (2.00 / 1)

If you're going to implement a policy of only counting the democrats who vote for your candidate and insist that independents and crossovers aren't allowed to vote for you then I wouldn't waste money on a whole lot of confetti if I were you.


Government derives its power from those that it governs.
by lockewasright on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:43:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Disaster (2.00 / 1)

Yikes, that is some serious playing of the race card. Pretty safe to say Hillary would be screwed if blacks turned out for her in the general at the same rate as the primary, yeah?


by Mullibok on Sat May 10, 2008 at 08:25:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Gore Won (2.00 / 6)

And you are helping to give the Supreme Court to Republicans by your bashing of the presumptive Democratic nominee.

Does reproductive choice mean nothing to you?


Children, have you any fish?
by FishOutofWater on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:09:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

but you all claimed Hillary was the real Dem (2.00 / 5)

and Obama was the moderate Republican and how Obama's health care plan was Republican and how Obama is the Republican on standing up to corporations.

Which is it?

As for Dukakis and Mondale, they ran DLC campaigns as did Gore and Kerry. Let's review.

Gary hart - liberal
Mondale - DLC mindset.

Dukakis - Technocrat, DLC mindset

Bradley - liberal
Gore - ran a DLC type campaign

Dean - progressive
Kerry - DLC mindset.