Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For You

The exact phrase Obama made was, "I don't want to go into the next election starting off with half the country already not wanting to vote for Democrats; we've done that in 2004, 2000."

That was Obama continuing his attack theme on Senator Clinton as his example of "politics of the past" in Central Iowa before the first Caucus.  His extension of the "generation of the past" that he used extensively in New Hampshire.  And he wonders why he has a problem with the Democratic base, mature adults and Seniors?

He received alot of criticism for those remarks from Liberals to Progressives.  The only folks who didn't seem to mind were his campaign and supporters.  

While the Obama camp has earned itself quite a bit of criticism over the last week or so for running to the right of his counterparts, if the Des Moines Register’s latest poll is correct, and although it has a very strong track record its conclusion that nearly 50% of Iowa’s Democratic caucus-goers will be independents and republican crossovers has understandably raised some doubts, that strategy may turn out to work for team Obama.

Trying to grab the center may seem surprising for a primary, but maybe not for a caucus like Iowa's.

He continued the strategy of cticizing Democrats while building up Republicans as he moved on to Nevada, after his loss in New Hampshire.  As we remember his infamous comment and praise of Ronald Reagan,

I don't want to present myself as some sort of singular figure.  I think part of what's different are the times.  I do think that for example the 1980 was different.  I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not.  He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it.  I think they felt like with all the excesses of the 1960s and 1970s and government had grown and grown but there wasn't much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating.  I think people, he just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was we want clarity we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing."-Obama

And again, only his supporters thought this was a good tactic, like Lawrence O'Donnell, who has been an Obama promoter for over a year and a half said on Countdown when Keith asked him if this was a smart thing to say in the Democratic Primary.

"only on the John Edwards side of the Democratic Party would you feel comfortable condemning him, as John Edwards is, but John Edwards is not a factor in any of these races coming up"-O'Donnell.

O'Donnell got upset when Keith questioned his frame of thought, that we are talking UNIONS, a man, President, who busted Unions, Air Traffic Controllers, etc, before the Nevada caucus where he just received those Union endorsements, so Lawrence O'Donnell reached further down and said,[OF THE VOTERS]  "I don't think they're that sharp".  WHAT?  The Union workers are supposed to be that stupid not to know what Reagan really stood for, but we are hoping the Republicans who do know better will rally around Obama as some message that he will be the same?  

O'Donnell goes on then to take another shot at Democrats, Union and blue-collar workers.  

"you have to look at the demographics of the union and their age group, people under 40 aren’t going to be all that sharp about exactly where Ronald Reagan was."

And, I guess, by default, those of us Democrats ABOVE the age of 40 that are sharp enough to know who and what Ronald Reagan was, is inconsequential and part of that "generation of the past" and therefore not the support Obama cares about.  He just doesn't want to deal with us folks in the Reality based world.

Obama has really continued this pattern and has alienated much of the base of the Democrats that he didn't care about, but now has extended that lists of voters to a much larger block of voters that won't vote for him.

Obama has now alienated Seniors, mature adults, "the left democrats", the base, "small town voters", white-blue collar voters and hispanics".

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton Administration and the Bush Administration and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And its not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."-Obama

And then with his continuous loss of support, as results of the most important primary states show, Obama surrogate reveals,

BRAZILE:  Well, Lou, I have worked on a lot of Democratic campaigns, and I respect Paul. But, Paul, you're looking at the old coalition.  A new Democratic coalition is younger.  It is more urban, as well as suburban, and we don't have to just rely on white blue-collar voters and Hispanics.-Donna Brazile

So, when Obama made that statement, "I don’t want to go into the next election starting off with half the country already not wanting to vote for Democrats — we’ve done that in 2004, 2000,", maybe he actually meant he was going to alienate a majority of all American voters, period.

Truly, the only way we, DEMOCRATS, will win and have the change we NEED so desperately in this country, is by nominating Hillary Clinton to represent Democrats and go on to win the White House in November, to take back our country!



Display:


Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (1.50 / 4)

Watch the video, you will see "ladies" synced up with a lot of women excited about obama.

yeah i know..... but it makes as much relevance as what you are saying.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:12:37 PM EST

Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (2.00 / 5)

You didn't even bother to read this diary before you spammed it with nonsense.


by LindaSFNM on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:15:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (2.00 / 6)

What you wrote an attack on our nominee.

So if you want to write anti-Democratic crap, I will respond with Pro Democratic crap.

And really, that video is splendid.
How can you watch that and not love the energy and movement behind Obama and the party.

We have the ball in our court, and you want to stick a hot knife in that ball because your favorite player isn't holding it anymore.

I got no love or respect for that.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:20:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I read it, and am poorer for having done so. (2.00 / 3)

Just another false narrative from a Clinton supporter.  Then we will have a bunch of other unobjective Clinton supporters come and pile on.   They will come and love the whole notion that the young and apparently educated to the point they are stupid supporters of Obama, don't "get it".   Nevermind that the young, and more educated have more resources to do political research, and are more likely to make an "educated" decision.  Rather than the blind Clinton and gender loyalty which is Clinton's base.

And I love how you try to mislead with the whole Reagan quote.  The points was, included in your quote, so I will clip it for you, so you cannot pretend to misunderstand the point anymore.

I think people, he just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was we want clarity we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing."-Obama

And I know that the Clinton people "got it" because Hillary, and her followers have done such a good job mocking hope and optimism.

So like the "typical" Clinton supporter here, you are either blatantly dishonest,  or you believe what was written, at which point you are hopelessly deluded.

From BBC America:

Hillary is in denial - on life support.

Maybe that is what we need here, a diary about overcomming denial.


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:30:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Never saw that one before. (none / 0)

I loved it!  Guess I haven't forgotten how to smile after all, even though it's been 8 years.


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:41:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For You (2.00 / 6)

There are consquequences when someone is so desperate and ends up alienating a majority of the voting population.

And taking the rest of voters for granted and claiming you'll automatically receive a certain amount of votes and delegates, even before you campaign, or choose not to even campaign in that state for their votes, it not a winning strategy for showing the American people you'll be there to fight for them.  Hillary does and will.


by LindaSFNM on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:14:10 PM EST

Hillary fights hard for herself (2.00 / 1)

and for nobody else.


by JJE on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:18:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So does Obama (2.00 / 0)

so does every politician. The difference is that you buy what he is selling you.
by linc on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:38:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So does Obama (2.00 / 2)

That's rich! It seems you guys are the ones still buying. Your candidate lost and you're still buying into the meme that she has a chance. We told you after Ohio and Texas, that she didn't have a chance mathmatically. You refused to believe  and now here you are right back into that DENIAL stage. Why are you making it so hard on yourselves?


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:45:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I hate carville (2.00 / 1)

I hate Penn

I hate Ickes.

Because of this, Hillary will not compete where she might be able to win...

I'm sorry, but I don't want a president who has been planning this since a year after her husband got out of office.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:20:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Penn (2.00 / 2)

Hillary's "chief strategist" Penn didn't even know Democratic primaries aren't winner take all. If there were only one reason why we're lucky she won't be the next president, it's that, like Bush, she puts friendship and loyalty ahead of competence when choosing people for positions of high responsibility.

And now she's deeply in debt for bad advice and incompetence and expects others to pay it off. How bushian does it get?


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:43:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

she got the best that money could buy (2.00 / 2)

and in an ordinary year would have won.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:46:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: she got the best that money could buy (2.00 / 2)

It certainly takes money to buy a lemon.

And I assumed the Clintons had a lock on the nomination until this year.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:16:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hate carville (none / 0)

and some could say this about someone who gave a speech as a state politician and then decided the same after 1 year in the senate.


"Me Fail English? That's Unpossible." Ralph Wiggum
by canadian gal on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:47:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

yes, indeed. (2.00 / 1)

but then you have to ask, who got the support from Wall Street.

Who all the republicans want to get elected president (Hillary)

Who wall street thinks will be in charge of the economy (Bill).

I am fervently glad that it was Hillary doing this run -- anyone else might have been shot after the election, by her backers.  They are not nice people.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:58:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (2.00 / 2)

Luckily he didn't do that. Or were you referring to Clinton?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:24:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

.....means your Hillary Clinton. (2.00 / 1)

Your comments would be accurate if you reversed the candidates you were talking about.

Your implying the "desperate" person, is the one who has been winning.  Has a smooth campaign. And is well funded.

Hillary, has repeatedly changed message, she has even seemed to give indications that she is going to concede, only to turn around and attack, to mock hope and optimism, to portray anyone who goes against her as out of touch, and not as "sharp" as her supporters.  She has no money.  And her campaign has been a disaster. And you don't think she is desperate?

And taking the rest of voters for granted and claiming you'll automatically receive a certain amount of votes and delegates, even before you campaign, or choose not to even campaign in that state for their votes, it not a winning strategy for showing the American people you'll be there to fight for them.

Again your trying to apply this to Obama, of the 50 state strategy.  And not applying this to the "inevitable" candidate (before the first vote was cast). Who only focused on "blue" states and makes the arguement that only they matter.  And she is fighting for "all" the American people?


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:47:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oooh, scary! (2.00 / 1)

Be afraid, be very afraid!  

LindaSFNM is the designated speaker for either 'half' or 'a majority' of the voting population.  


No Way, No How, No McCain!
by GFORD on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:48:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What about the 1/2 not wanting Senator Clinton (2.00 / 2)

And, this would NOT be a problem for Senator Clinton as well because........?

Sounds like you are pitching for Al Gore?


"Either you're the butcher Or the lamb but even so, Everybody pays as they go-Jakob Dylan"
by WashStateBlue on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:14:22 PM EST

Rabies isn't just for dogs. (2.00 / 2)

She started off rabid for Gore.
When he didn't run she became rabid for Edwards.
When Edwards quit she went rabid for Hillary (or against Obama).
Some people are just rabid.
Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:47:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rabies isn't just for dogs. (none / 0)

Sitka, you really have some issues don't you?  What is this "rabid" and "bitter".  It sounds like you keep describing yourself.  Is there something you want to share while you make all these claims?


by LindaSFNM on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:22:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Rabies isn't just for dogs. (2.00 / 1)

I suggest you buy at least one mirror for the house you live in.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:11:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What about the 1/2 not wanting Senator Clinton (none / 0)

Simple, that't not correct.  As much as I see so many people that just like to plst any claims, that is not supported in reality.

But I guess that would be your only argument, well, Obama may be losing more than half, but Hillary is close?  lol


by LindaSFNM on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:25:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

We, the Party, need both of them -- period. (2.00 / 1)

There's enough work, need and historical glory for all.

Clinton supporters get it; Obama supporters, in their immature, inexperienced hubris don't get it.

If he can't heal is own party, then he has no differentiation at all.


by dcrolg on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:17:17 PM EST

Re: We, the Party, need both of them -- period. (2.00 / 1)

The party will begin to heal when the primary ends, sometime around June 15th.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:21:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

we do need both of them... (2.00 / 2)

but hillary is still not going to be on the ticket.

Please don't lump all obama supporters together, it does little but damage your credibility.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:21:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We, the Party, need both of them -- period. (2.00 / 4)

This is so self-defeating.  "We won't go to Obama.  If he can't get us to, its his fault.  That means he's not a uniter.  Therefore, he is a liar.  Therefore we won't vote for him.  Therefore he isn't a uniter.  Therefor he is a liar.  Therefore we won't vote for him......"

Time to grow up Democrats.


John McCain isn't evil. He's just wrong about a lot of things. Vote Obama!
by proseandpromise on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:21:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We, the Party, need both of them -- period. (none / 0)

So its the masses that are to blame for the reaction to Obama?

Not his supporters who tell them to grow up.

Not him who tolerates hate in his supporters from day 1?

Who will you blame when Obama loses?  Surely not yourself right?

You have already "grown up"  it must be the bitter people.....


by DTaylor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:33:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We, the Party, need both of them -- period. (2.00 / 2)

Not the masses.  But the supposedly progressive blogosphere?  Absolutely.  And if it makes you feel better (I doubt it will) I've been saying the same thing to whiny Obama supporters at DKos.


John McCain isn't evil. He's just wrong about a lot of things. Vote Obama!
by proseandpromise on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:37:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If I've told you to grow up, I apologize (2.00 / 1)

Supporters are bound to do some things that everyone despises.

Remember you may be talking to a twelve year old.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:47:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Redstate is your home now (2.00 / 2)

Here, we support the Democratic nominee.


by rhetoricus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:49:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: We, the Party, need both of them -- period. (2.00 / 1)

Wow, you think based on some idiot bloggers that Obama and his rational supporters think they can win without a percentage of the Clinton supporters?

OF COURSE he has to heal the party?

So would she?

Do you HONESTLY THINK there aren't some very pissed off black folks she would need in the fall?

Check out DiamondJay, and those guys running around here trying to figure out HOW to discount the black vote?  Sheesh, there are plenty of idiots to go around....

Of course, the problem with Obama/Clinton is, I don't think she would take the deal?

But, we will see....


"Either you're the butcher Or the lamb but even so, Everybody pays as they go-Jakob Dylan"
by WashStateBlue on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:22:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How could that work?? (2.00 / 2)

She's been going around saying Obama can't get "the white vote." Think that particular "white vote" will vote for the black guy just because she at the bottom of the ticket? I don't THINK so..


by rhetoricus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:51:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (1.80 / 5)

I guess we are going to lose big in November because Hillary wasn't a good enough candidate to beat a freshman Senator who few people had heard of before 2004.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:18:44 PM EST

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (2.00 / 4)

You hit the hammer right on the nailhead with that one.Obama nor his supporters do not contain the emotional sensitivity to understand what they have done to the women of  this party.


by Iceblinkjm on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:20:49 PM EST

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (1.66 / 3)

boohoo. get over it.


by Cheebs on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:22:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (1.40 / 5)

boohoo get over it.

LOL

I am over it.

I am at peace with voting McCain unless Hillary is on the ticket.

I will be voting against any Dean/Pelosi/Kennedy sponsored ticket for the rest of my life over this.

I never had that mind set before this election.


by DTaylor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:37:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (2.00 / 2)

Angry!

Do you really think your temper tantrum will last for six months?  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:39:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Redstate is calling... (2.00 / 2)

I think they have blood on their hands, but they're welcoming you to their party.

Two supreme court justices.

The demise of our constitution

The utter subversion of our civil service

WHO ARE YOU?  You ain't no democrat that I want in this fucking party.

Hell, I'm not so sure someone who will compromise their principles for the sake of fanaticism is someone I want on the same planet as me.

Harsh, yeah. This bitch has teeth.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:40:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pelosi and Kennedy (none / 0)

are the establishment- the very inept establishment that sent up the horrible candidate Kerry. Now Kennedy endorses Obama and Pelosi might as well have. Boy, are we in for a world of hurt in November...
by linc on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:41:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Pelosi and Kennedy (2.00 / 3)

All because Hillary couldn't beat some upstart freshman Senator in the primary.  It is a tragedy.


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:43:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh give me a break (none / 0)

its hard to beat a fad, until the fad beats itself.
by linc on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:32:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Anger the next stage in the grieving process (2.00 / 3)

"Whenever one's identity and social order face the possibility of destruction, there is a natural tendency to feel angry, frustrated, helpless, and/or hurt. The volatile reactions of terror, hatred, resentment, and jealousy are often experienced as emotional manifestations of these feelings."


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:48:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

DTaylor, I'm a Hillary supporter (none / 0)

and I'm asking you not to do that. He can win without your help, and by not voting for him, you help insure he'll only have a plurality of votes rather than a majority.

Don't vote at all, vote 3rd party, or write in your choice for president, but please don't vote for McCain.


by phoenixdreamz on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:49:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: DTaylor, I'm a Hillary supporter (2.00 / 2)

And that worked great with the clown Ralph Nader too right?

A vote against a Democrat is a vote for a Republican.

I would prefer you crazies to vote for McCain and at least be honest.

To many people have died for our right to vote, you are no better than Rush and his operation chaos.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:57:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Crazies? Dishonest? No better than Rush? (none / 0)

Keep it up. The more you widen the party divide, you make it that much more difficult for Obama to win the general election. If/when he loses, your self defeating behavior will be the reason why.

My case for not voting for McCain stands. The plurality vote verses majority vote is an unassailable argument for all those not inclined to cut their nose off to spite their face.


by phoenixdreamz on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:14:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Enjoy the torture.. (2.00 / 5)

the loss of Row v. Wade, a long recession, more tax breaks for the rich, more money to Blackwater, and war with Iran.

We'll remember who to thank. In the meantime, Redstate could use you. (P.S. I think even Hillary would be deeply ashamed of you.)


by rhetoricus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:55:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (2.00 / 2)

I have no problem with getting rid of old trash from time to time.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:19:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Comedy. Grazie. (2.00 / 2)


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:23:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

growls (2.00 / 1)

this bitch has had quite enough of you thinking that you can lump us all together. I hear hillary got support among men you, did you NOT HEAR THAT??

I know you're hurting, but insulting the rest of us is just going to get you growled at by me.

I think it's quite apparent that both Obama and Hillary are assholes. McCain is too. That's the only way to get a candidate, these days.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:24:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (2.00 / 3)

So, "Women" as you like to group them together have the emotional development of a 6 year old by your gross generalization.

What you are saying is that Women cannot understand that a primary is a CONTEST, and not every boy and girl can win.

Its like the kid at a birtday crying because he didn't break the pinata, so his parents put the pinata back together with tape and let him break it with no blindfold on.

Well, Im not putting back the pinata on this one.

To do so would be to say, rules are not important, the perceived emotional state is.

Im not a women, but as a man who holds a HIGHER regard for women to balance rational thought with emotion (hence why you gals don't commit as much violence)
and you take my repsect for women and step on it.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:25:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (2.00 / 5)

I'm one of the women of this party and have worked on campaigns for over 35 years. I'm for Obama.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:29:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (2.00 / 2)

See check this out PM,

Im just sick of all the division talk, started by the media, carried on by certain candidates.

To me it is offensive when they say "Women do this, and blacks do that, and whites do this"

It always portrays true or not, the worst stereotypes and just by insinuating group think, weakens that demographic.

Im just tired of it,  because instead of trying to fix why women might react this way, Linda is trying to reinforce it and tell us to DROP our ELECTED nominee because of these divisions.

Look, Mark Penn wrote a book on how to divide people, its on amazon,  too lazy to link for the 20th time.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:34:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (none / 0)

So Saying Blacks vote Obama 90% and you can predict with VERY good accuracy if he will win based on the demographics is foolish?

When you don't like something it doesn't stop it from being true.


by DTaylor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:39:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

There are more sensitive ways to put things... (2.00 / 1)

and more accurate ones to boot.

Obama got more percentage out of college-educated than he did out of black in the south, remember??

So, maybe saying that he's suddenly taking the urban votes... or talking about how Hillary gets the union vote.

there are ways you can be nice, and then there are ways you can be ... cruel.

Talking about everyone being racist ain't gonna move this country into anything but riots.


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:42:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Good point (none / 0)

are you scolding Obama, or is 'bitter' just fine with you for a generalization of rural, working class white folks?
by linc on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:43:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (none / 0)

Oh, I think it's MUCH more than even just the majority of women.


by LindaSFNM on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:39:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nice! (2.00 / 3)

Right.  We just want you to leave us alone so we can go back to watching the game.

Oh, and could we have another beer?


"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!
by username3 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:07:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Uh no: (2.00 / 1)

And you do not speak for the women of this party.Are there lots of women who're democrats voting for her? Well of course. However, the majority of the women supporting her are older, more mature women. The younger ones know better.


"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale
by april34fff on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:44:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Either that or someones supporters do not have the (2.00 / 1)

capacity to face reality.  And "women" of this party is false.  It is only some women who are so narrow minded and bigoted that they have tied their whole identity to Clinton.   And Hillary needs to take a big chunk of responsibility for that because she campaigned with the intention of that happening.

I wish I had a transcript of Real Time. Ayaan Hirsi Ali made a great point, about you cannot see candidates as represenative of blacks or women or any group. Becuase when you do that, when that candidate loses you have made it so all that group loses too.

I wish I had the clip, or could find the exact quote, but a Clinton speech I heard, she said something along the lines of.  "It is hard for women to be the best at anything....that is why I need to be elected President".  Seriously, when this is what Clinton is saying, and running on, do not try to transfer the blame to Obama, and his supporters. YOU, PEOPLE LIKE YOU, AND HILLARY CLINTON, are the ones have have done something to the "women of this party".


Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win. ~ Sun Tzu
by Tumult on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:09:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh please. (2.00 / 1)

Unions? Clinton hires union busters and prays with the wives of anti-union right-wingers.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:23:36 PM EST

Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For You (none / 0)

Absolutely!


by environmentally blue on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:23:57 PM EST

Brazile's Full Quote (2.00 / 4)

Brazile's full quote makes it quite clear that she was talking about expanding the base of the Democratic Party, NOT about discarding whites and hispanics.

BRAZILE: Well, Lou, I have worked on a lot of Democratic campaigns, and I respect Paul. But, Paul, you're looking at the old coalition. A new Democratic coalition is younger. It is more urban, as well as suburban, and we don't have to just rely on white blue-collar voters and Hispanics. We need to look at the Democratic Party, expand the party, expand the base and not throw out the baby with the bathwater.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:26:42 PM EST

Re: Brazile's Full Quote (1.50 / 4)

Brazile? I don't think they know who that is.

I think she goes by the name of "Brillohead" in some Hillary quarters. Which, is pathetic.


by cherrygarcia on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:35:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Brazile's Full Quote (1.50 / 2)

I have never heard her reffered to like that until you did it.

She is an Obama shill is the only thing I have heard regarding her.


by DTaylor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:41:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Brazile's Full Quote (2.00 / 1)

That's what they call her at Hillaryis44, you know, where Linfar hangs out.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:43:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I heard one nickname that I liked (2.00 / 1)

I think it was alegre or TexasDarlin that called Donna the "Superdelegate to the Stars."

I thought that was cute, despite its obvious antagonism.  "Brillohead" is just idiotic.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:52:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Brazile's Full Quote (none / 0)

As an Obama shill, I resent being lumped together with Donna Brazile.  She's really more of a has-been clown.


"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!
by username3 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:11:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Brazile's Full Quote (2.00 / 1)

lmao....oh yeah.......lol (sorry, can't stop laughing with tha one) that's really a way to "expand" the party.  


by LindaSFNM on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:37:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Brazile's Full Quote (2.00 / 1)

Expand it by bashing the base's candidate and then telling to grow up and take it or they aren't real democrats.

Telling the majority of the party we aren't real democrats...

Team Obama is just soooooooo smart.


by DTaylor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:42:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Brazile's Full Quote (2.00 / 3)

I missed that part of Braziles quote.  Can you link it.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:43:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

hard to tell (2.00 / 3)

if Obama really wants to "heal" the party...I think after he is secure in the nomination it just might start.  But he's not shown any compulsion to do it, neither have is surrogates or his supporters.  Look at the comments to this diary--they are spam, telling women to "get over it", jeering...the usual stuff.  Given that kind of childish behavior, it is very likely that Obama starts off with half the electorate.

These are large barriers Obama must overcome, and he still needs to convince the supers he can win without winning florida, ohio, and other important states.  


by 4justice on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:31:40 PM EST

I think he might win ohio... (none / 0)

but you're right. As much as I may have been annoyed by some of the comments here overgeneralizing -- you've hit the nail on the head.

I do believe, based on sociopsychological studies, that people around here are liable to overestimate how many people hate Obama.

That said, the same could be inversely said about Obama supporters, of which I count myself one.

Thanks for being the sane person I could agree with!!


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:50:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This diary is a shining example (2.00 / 1)

of why you're known as "Bitter Linda."

It's over. Now you're just working for McCain.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:33:51 PM EST

LOL (none / 0)

Only by the bitter Obama followers.


by LindaSFNM on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:36:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL (2.00 / 2)

So Linda, how long do you plan to attack Obama and the rest of our party.

When will it end.  Just tell me it ends with the concession speech.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:39:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL (none / 0)

Obama's general election concession speech?

I think you VASTLY VASTLY underestimate the damage that Obama has wrought.

He may have lost 20% of the party permanently.


by DTaylor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:45:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL (none / 0)

Exactly.  I say he lost about 25 percent.


by LindaSFNM on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:52:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: LOL (2.00 / 3)

Please point them out, just because someone loves their candidate, doesnt mean they will hate the next.

Your rationalle would say that this "20%" is literally either insane or in favor of Dead American Soldier, Dead Iraq children, Torture, the end of roe v wade, increased poverty, increased top 1% rich etc etc.

So you are saying this 20% is absolutely nuts?

Because any logical sane and humane person would never vote for the republican party.

Do you realize the blood they are covered in, and you are happy to report 20% will support that.

Of course all my conjecture is rediculous because that "20%" does not exist.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:52:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

How long will I point out Obama's failures? (none / 0)

Until he isn't in the race to have to.  Funny how you call me pointing out Obama's attacks, condescention  and problems as an attack.  And I will continue to point out why Hillary is our best chance to win and also achieve the change we need.


by LindaSFNM on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:51:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: How long will I point out Obama's failures? (2.00 / 1)

Ah, I see you are hungry for change.  Hoping desperately, audaciously that that candidate can somehow clinch the nomination...

Seriously, it's probably beautiful in Santa Fe now.  Get outside for a bit.


"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!
by username3 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:15:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

bitter Obama followers. (2.00 / 2)

The bitter victors? That's a good one.

No. Obama's people are just ready to move on to the general election now the the Democratic nomination has been decided.

There's nothing left by clinging to Hillary but wishing for Bush's third term out of spite.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:10:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

You missed it entirely (none / 0)

but I am not surprised- by talking about unity and then driving division, it was you folks and the Obama campaign that brought us here- at least in part. The absolute unwillingness to cede any ground to your fellow dems because you hate Hillary so much, will ruin our chances in November.
by linc on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:51:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: You missed it entirely (2.00 / 1)

Generalize much?

Just because a few wingnuts on the blog say stupid things about Hillary, THE VAST MAJORITY of Obama supporters don't hate her?

Sheesh....


"Either you're the butcher Or the lamb but even so, Everybody pays as they go-Jakob Dylan"
by WashStateBlue on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:00:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I am not talking about wingnuts on the blogs (none / 0)

I am talking about everyday people that say things like "hell no" when asked if they would vote for Hillary. The sexist media, that is largely informed by wingnuts on the blogs for its opinion about Hillary Clinton. Or how about Kos's wonderful reach in trying to paint the Clinton campaign as racist by trying to show that Hillary Clinton's campaign somehow tried to make Obama look 'blacker' by photoshoping a photo of him- it all comes together and has created a narrative- its disgusting.
by linc on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:59:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Reality based world." (2.00 / 4)

Yes, by all means join us in the reality-based world.

The reality-based world is the one where the Democrats had a long, fair contest and the black guy beat the female guy and they are all going to turn around and go after the old guy.

Obama ran the new gold standard of primary campaigns; his methods will be studied and emulated in elections to come.  I expect Democrats to be much stronger for it in the future.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:39:45 PM EST

Re: "Reality based world." (2.00 / 1)

I don't think you live in a reality based world.

Its wasn't fair with MSNBC bashing Hillary 24/7.

And even now its not over.  Its over at the convention.


by DTaylor on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:47:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "Reality based world." (2.00 / 1)

This is like Lee's army fleeing from Grant's just before Appomatox. All but a handul of bitter dead-enders know it's over.

Obama is now only 8 behind in Hillary's last leading metric -- superdelegates. By Monday he'll lead that one too.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:56:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Golly (2.00 / 1)

MSNBC had the worst ratings at the start of the primary season, I didn't realize that they were so influential that they could sway an entire primary by themselves.

I would contend that Bill and Hillary did more damage to themselves than any media outlet.  They gotta remember that they're always followed by recording devices, and people will notice if you say something when there's recorded proof to the contrary.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:58:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I agree with Obama (none / 0)

he is a disaster since half the country will not under any circumstances want to vote for him.
Hillary with her specifics on policy and years of experience will do much better winning people over for the democratic party.
For Obama it now becomes: Faith, hope and CHANGE! And the greatest of these is Change!
by TeresaInPa on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:43:26 PM EST

Re: I agree with Obama (2.00 / 2)

Less than half of the country voted for Bill Clinton and Bushboy in 3 elections.

If you really don't want a third term for Bush, I suggest you stop wringing your hands about Obama and start helping him instead.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:51:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree with Obama (none / 0)

He is a Messiah. He woud neither need my help nor my vote!


You may not agree with What I say but don't forget I am a Democrat
by indydem99 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:58:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree with Obama (2.00 / 1)

It's some of those who oppose Obama who have the messiah complex.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:09:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I agree with Obama (2.00 / 1)

Show us the PROOF, teresa. Or are you just gazing into your crystal ball. Or is it just WISHFUL thinking?


"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband
by venician on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:53:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Hillary's legal career (Bush I vs. Bill) (2.00 / 1)

Sorry, don't buy that those extra 4 years of Senatorship gets her a pass over Obama.

A partnership at Rose Law Firm where she served as a rainmaker due to her connections and didn't practice substantive law?  That's great people hob-nobbing but not governing experience per se.  Her 8 years as First Lady?  If you're going to give her that as an edge, please say it so I can attempt to refute that properly without putting words in your mouth.

Seriously who did you vote for back in '92.  Was it the experienced President with 8 years of VP, who had LOTs of foreign policy experience, was CIA director, just won Iraq War I and was a war hero in WWII?  Or was it the inexperienced young governor of a small state who ran on a platform of change with little policy specifics?

Oh, yeah, I voted for Bill in 92, probably just like you.


by Regenman on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:06:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (2.00 / 2)

Judging by the vitriol and lack of empathy you  guys really don't get it. It's been a problem this whole season with both Obama, the Media and his supporters. You failed to acknowledge the historic nature of Hillary's run and what it meant to a lot of women and girls in this nation. Heck you discounted what it meant to a lot of people period. Obama is not the only candidate that inspired people or made them dream.


by Iceblinkjm on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:48:49 PM EST

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (2.00 / 1)

You're not going to find a lot of empathy in incendiary diaries such as this one.  Consider where the comments are made before you reach an opinion.


by rfahey22 on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:53:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I do understand that... (none / 0)

and I will continue to cherish the enthusiasm of everyone who canvassed, called, or otherwise gave a damn.

Thank you, everyone.

the election isn't over yet, and I'm sure WV and KY are just as glad as MT and OR to get a chance to actually matter (even if just a little bit).

Hell, here in PA, everyone was excited.

You sound like you could use a hug. I'd give you one, if I could ever make an electronic one... ;-)


His head is bowed. He thinks of men and kings. Yea, when the sick world cries, how can he sleep?
by RisingTide on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:53:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (2.00 / 2)

If you want empathy or support then don't post diaries bashing Obama.  It isn't really that difficult of a concept.  

I hope Obama picks a woman for his VP nominee b/c many of the non-fanatical, female Hillary supporters I have come across were affected so deeply by Hillary's run.  We Obama supporters have plenty of empathy but don't expect to get any if you spit in the face our our candidate.  


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:53:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I hope Obama picks a woman for his VP nominee (2.00 / 2)

I'm betting on Gov. Janet Napolitano or Gov. Kathleen Sibelius.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:03:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope Obama picks a woman for his VP nominee (none / 0)

Even in fantasy land should B O get the nomination, before losing in the General, Napolitano and Sebellius, the sleepser would put the nail in the coffin.

You'll be keeping Napolitano in Phoenix.


by LindaSFNM on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:44:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

lol (2.00 / 1)

This is so very sad. Hillary needs to school her followers on how to lose with dignity, grace and class; but if it makes you feel better by convincing yourself that Barack will lose in November...you go ahead and do that, girl.

It would probably be more productive accepting that she got out-schooled by a Washington outsider, freshman senator who noone had ever heard of.


"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale
by april34fff on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:57:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: lol (2.00 / 1)

...meant congressman...


"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale
by april34fff on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:30:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I hope Obama picks a woman for his VP nominee (2.00 / 1)

Aside from Clinton who do you think would make a good VP choice?


Consider that everything which happens, happens justly, and if thou observest carefully, thou wilt find it to be so. -Marcus Aurelius
by Blue Neponset on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:42:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Even in fantasy land should B O get the nomination (2.00 / 1)

Here's your worst fantasy come true......

Obama Now Leads in Superdelegates

Hillary now leads in......nothing.


Hillary: "Her dishonesty is actually honest." -- yellowdem1129
by Kobi on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:16:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So it's Obama's fault that he's black???? (2.00 / 1)

Watch where you're going about women's dreams.  You don't think African Americans have dreams as well?

I've voted for Ann Richards, Anne Eshoo, Boxer and Feinstein.  There are more women on the Supreme Court than AA.  There are a hell of a lot more women in Congress than AAs.

Don't play the gender oppression card against an ethnic minority.  That's where this party gets hurt.


by Regenman on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:01:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So it's Obama's fault that he's black???? (none / 0)

Sorry but the media has been playing that card since January. I don't wanna hear it anymore. The same could be said by blue collar whites.


by Iceblinkjm on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:08:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So blame the media (2.00 / 1)

and leave Obama out of it.


by Regenman on Fri May 09, 2008 at 03:53:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Step back for a second. (2.00 / 3)

You failed to acknowledge the historic nature of Hillary's run and what it meant to a lot of women and girls in this nation.

If you change "Hillary" to "Barack" and "women and girls" to "blacks and mixed-race people," then it's an equally compelling statement.

Nobody discounts Clinton because of her gender.  She's being discounted because she lost, fair and square, and there's more at stake than just having the first female president.


In this avalanche, the pebbles get to vote.
by Dracomicron on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:03:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Starting Off With Half Not Wanting To Vote For (2.00 / 1)

You failed to acknowledge the historic nature of Hillary's run and what it meant to a lot of women and girls in this nation.

People have acknowledged the Historic Nature of all three Candidates.  The media has done the same.  But I think Clinton supporters have invested too much in the notion, that it takes "Hillary Clinton" to make this "historic" advancement.   It is the false notion that who she is should matter less than what she is.  And that by rejecting the who we are rejecting the what.  But that really is not our problem, we are not the one who tied our identity to a candidate based on how "historical" he or she was.  It is like Clarence Thomas on the Supreme court, should I feel good about that because it was "historic"?  If Cond