Desperate to Win

by TexasDarlin, Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:38:47 PM EST

Not long after the polls close in the May 20th Kentucky and Oregon primaries, Barack Obama plans to declare victory in his bid for the Democratic presidential nomination, Politico reports.

How convenient, and how utterly arrogant, that Senator Obama would seek to anoint himself before the Rules Committee has the opportunity to discuss enfranchising 2.5 million voters who went to the polls in Michigan and Florida.  In case the Obama Campaign lost the memo, the first meeting of the Rules Committee is scheduled for May 31st -- 11 days after he plans to "declare victory."

Is Obama afraid of that the results from that meeting?  Of course he knows that a positive outcome for the people of Florida and  Michigan would change the number of delegates needed to win the nomination, and would net Clinton more pledged delegates.

Or does Obama hope that his premature self-declaration will distort the fact that his delegate lead will narrow by June 3rd once all the remaining states (plus PR) vote?  Does he want the Rules Committee members to conclude in advance that their May 31st meeting is actually irrelevant?

There is no possiblity that Obama will earn enough pledged delegates, not even close, by May 20th.  In fact, since Hillary Clinton will likely win West Virginia (on May 13th) and Kentucky (on May 20th) by huge double-digit margins -- Barack Obama's pledged delegate lead will have shrunk by May 20th.  I just saw that Clinton has a 40 point lead in West Virginia just 5 days out to that election! Despite the mad cries this week to end things, it appears that Clinton is actually gaining momentum.  Wow, a blow-out like that in West Virginia, a general-election swing state, would be devastating for Obama as he simultaneously tries to persuade the Superdelegates, and everyone else in America, that he can win enough Democratic votes in November to beat John McCain.

And don't forget..Superdelegate votes don't count for anything until the convention.  

So...yes, it appears that Barack Obama is very scared.  Scared of the people in Florida, Michigan, West Virginia, Kentucky, Puerto Rico; scared of the Democratic process; and possibly scared that more of his skeletons will pop out of the closet before June.  I can't really say, don't know what he's thinking, but Jeez, Senator, let Democracy be!

I'm not sure how Hillary feels when she hears about Obama's plans to declare himself the nominee before the primary process is completed...But as a Hillary supporter, I say:  TAKE IT TO THE CONVENTION, BABY.

That's what the convention is for, to select a nominee. And until the pledged and automatic delegates vote at the convention, no one is entitled to declare victory. Right, Senator Kennedy?



Cross posted at TexasDarlin

Not affiliated with the Hillary Clinton campaign
TexasDarlin, all rights reserved




Tags: obama, desperate, clinton, convention, nomination, delegates, superdelegates, west virginia, kentucky, florida, michigan, rules committee (all tags)

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Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 14)

What's the rush?  This is a Democracy, remember?


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:39:07 PM EST

When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (2.00 / 4)

for April, many will cry. It seems the debt is much larger than expected. It makes a bit of sense, team Obama is looking to May 20th as the day they'll declare victory. Whatever little secret that's in those FEC filings will be known on that day.

May be Senator Clinton is trying to squeeze Obama to have his camp pay for some of her campaign debts. All speculation of course, but plausible nonetheless.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:41:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (2.00 / 6)

I don't want my donation to the Obama camapign to pay off Clinton's debts.  


by NewOaklandDem on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:47:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (1.75 / 4)

It seems her camp is playing hardball. Either give us the money, or spend it on ad buys in Kentucky and West Virginia.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:48:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (2.00 / 6)

it would be a waste of money. he's down by 40 in WV.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:50:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (2.00 / 4)

Hmmm... NOW who's trying to steal this election?

Seriously - Howard had better find a way to head this shite off or I can gurantee that there WILL be hell to pay withib our party.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:26:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (2.00 / 1)

you got her... alegre is really chelsea clinton. /snark


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:08:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (2.00 / 0)

Best reveal ever.


by kyle in philly on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:13:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (none / 0)

Alegre. Hell to pay? Listen to Christopher Marlowe

Why this is hell, nor am I out of it.


by duende on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:29:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (none / 0)

I was responding to the diary in general.  You know... re MI and FL.


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:53:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (2.00 / 1)

Good news for Hillary: she'll get all 160 of WV's delegates!


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:51:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (none / 0)

They have 160 delegates? I thought it was 28...


by Liberal Monk on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:12:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (none / 0)

I was being sarcastic


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:32:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (none / 0)

Yeah, I figured that out after I swallowed my tongue and scuttled off to double-check the number.

I apologize for misunderstanding. All I can offer in my defense is that there is so much unbelievable stuff said on this site that it's hard for a new person to know whether an outlandish statement stems from delusion or snark.

Please forgive me for interfering with the punchline!!  :)


by Liberal Monk on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:11:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (none / 0)

No biggie.

I've fallen for a snark a couple times. Anything's possible here.  remember fingergate?


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:05:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (none / 0)

I must admit that I don't. I thought all the "-gate" words had been used up.

Please enlighten me...


by Liberal Monk on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:28:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (none / 0)

"Fingergate"

Obama was kinda making fun of Hillary, as he was scratching his face (like he does a lot when he's speaking). But this time it looked like he was making a stronger point. Pretty hilarious, except for the fact that there's a picture from a different angle, that shows he was really using two fingers.


by ratmach on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:32:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (none / 0)

Yeah... fingergate was the tempest in the teapot when all the Hillary supporters were certain Obama was flipping off Hillary at a rally when he was really just scratching his face.  It dominated this blog for about three days. According to a number of cultists, he was "very unpresidential".


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:19:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (none / 0)

Some still rail against him for giving her the finger.  LOL


by Same As It Ever Was on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:19:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You know, I had heard... (none / 0)

...it was like that here. Of course, I didn't believe it could be that one sided, so I came over to take a peek for myself. I figured the Obama supporters at DKos were exaggerating, but maybe I was wrong.

Three whole days, huh? Surely something else that was genuinely worth discussion happened during that time.

But, just to keep it all in perspective, I checked out "No Quarter" yesterday after seeing it referenced so many times here, and what I read there absolutely floored me. Among other things, there are Democrats there touting the credibility of Fox News, no less. Isn't that a sign of the apocalypse or something?


by Liberal Monk on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:21:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Oh, good grief! (2.00 / 1)

You're right: that is hilarious. Minutae elevated to issues-level discourse.


by Liberal Monk on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:50:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (2.00 / 1)

It might be cheaper than a fight to the death.  Still, I draw the line at her personal loan: If she wants to run a vanity campaign, she can pay for it herself.


"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!
by username3 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:51:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (2.00 / 3)

Clinton's debts=Mark Penn


President Barack Obama "get used to it"
by wellinformed on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:20:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (2.00 / 2)

Ditto.  She's worth $100 million, let her pay off her own debts.  

And given her recent comments, I don't want her anywhere near the ticket.  Let her preemptively reject it, but nothing else.  


Saxby Chambliss
by bosdcla14 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:57:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (none / 0)

But she supports Working Class Values, one of which happens to be "getting screwed over by the rich again and again."

Bend over for Hillary!


"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!
by username3 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:59:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Mission Accomplished? (1.77 / 9)

he'd be a laughing stock. Everyone knows that the delegates pick the nominee at the convention, the nominee doesn't get to pick himself. He can pick his nose, but he can't call mission accomplished without looking like a very strange dude.  Like excuse me, we do still have a democracy?  This would be a bad mistake for him to make, the ramifications are unthinkable.  


just say it: Medicare for All
by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (2.00 / 6)

Wishful thinking on your part. Obama is our nominee.


by venician on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:54:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (2.00 / 4)

Says who?


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:16:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (2.00 / 3)

All the people who've voted for him, and the delegates he's amassed.


by jbill on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:18:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (2.00 / 6)

SAYS THE MATH


by venician on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:32:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (2.00 / 3)

If I had a nickel...


No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:08:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (1.60 / 5)

If you had a nickel for every time you were told to do the math and see Obama won... you'd have zero nickels.  Because clearly you can't count.


"We have said since Iowa that this is a race for delegates."
-Howard Wolfson
by belicheat on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:18:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (none / 0)

The coup ain't gonna happen, Darlin'


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:53:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (none / 0)

He's not my nominee.


by bellarose on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:14:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not officially, yet. (none / 0)

But he darn sure will be, unless you're not a Democrat.


by corph on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:38:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (1.50 / 2)

Yes, because Obama and his campaign (and what an awesome campaign it is) are just gonna go on up there and tell everybody they won it. Without talking to party leaders, without talking to super delegates. And, the ramifications were unthinkable on Wright, Ayers, Rezko, and whatever else people threw at him. This just another in long line of nothings.

President Obama sure does sound great.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:58:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (2.00 / 2)

I have been trying to refrain from commenting so as to not appear to be kicking anyone when they are down, but perhaps it won't be seen that way among people who don't know they are down.  This line is so patently ridiculous and shows what a self-iniduced bubble you have chosen to place yourself in.  you spout off a bunch of nonsense about making declarations without talking to anybody, but if you had access to a computer or a television...hmmm.. you would be able to join a fact based world and know that a certain somebody is in Washington talking to party leaders and superdelegates.  I understand that many of you are having a hard time coming to grip swith the fact that your chosen candidate lost, but stop with the LIES about the presumptive nominee.


by oliver cromwell on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:15:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (none / 0)

My God.  I missed the snark.  My bad.  But I guess I am so frustrated by this site that it isn't far from what certain regular posters would write.  Please accept my apologies...


by oliver cromwell on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:18:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (1.00 / 14)

He IS a laughing stock as is.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:02:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Only MyDD thinks so. (2.00 / 4)


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:13:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And No Quarter, and Hillary is 44 (2.00 / 1)

and Taylor Marsh...oops...nevermind, she's seen the writing on the wall and now has rabid former zombie followers nipping at her ankles. And she has no radio show either...awwwww.

So, you're wrong RL. There is 1% of the liberal blogosphere who thinks Obama is a laughing stock, the devil, a republican, a muslim who eats live babies, an employee of Tony Rezko, a former member of the Weather Underground, a sexist race baiter, a racist sex baiter, etc., etc., etc., ad nauseum, and that group makes up approximately .0000000000000001% of the electorate, so we need to be nice and admit that Hillary won fair and square according to the most current version of the rules, otherwise they'll not vote for Obama, or voter for McCain, or vote for Cynthia McKinney, or vote for Ralph Nader, or vote for Hillary anyway, or vote for that penguin in "Happy Feet", or hold their breath until they DIE!

And that'll show you.


by bookish on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:19:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The ony desperation around here (2.00 / 2)

is here, darlin'.

We're trying to be nice, but then this silly piece of work shoots to the top of the rec list.

Oh well :^)


by ReillyDiefenbach on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:48:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (2.00 / 2)

If this is the same pagan power who posts on no quarter, then ignore the racist hate troll.

Check out the diary below to see the technicolor bile

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/07/ i-call-a-spade-a-spade/


by duende on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:40:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (2.00 / 2)

Yes, it's the same loathsome cretin who wrote and titled that post and refused to change the title (or the comparisons of Axlerod to Hitler) after people asked him/her/it to in the comments over there.


by Rumproast on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:05:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (2.00 / 1)

I'm almost speechless. I checked out Hillaryis44 during the NC/IN primaries, and it was filled with the same stuff - combined with threats to leave the dems AND even implications of political violence.

I could share the link if you want, but whoever these people are, they are not democrats


by duende on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:08:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (2.00 / 1)

If they are, I can only hope they'll change their affiliation as soon as possible. Their numbers are grossly exaggerated and the Democratic party would do well to lose these deranged, racist knuckledraggers.


by Rumproast on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:40:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (none / 0)

Agreed. They seem to have exorbitant traction in the blogosphere, but when it comes to voting, the race card didn't work. Obama has got between 40-60 per cent of white votes, of all economic class, even in the last 'hate filled' primaries.

It's the ideologues and hate merchants who have everything to lose and gain by pushing this bile. Most people don't fall for culture wars anymore.


by duende on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:48:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (none / 0)

Well said, d.


by ReillyDiefenbach on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:51:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (none / 0)

The race card worked well.

It's the only reason Obama's doing as well as he is.  Kudos to Axelrod for smearing the Clintons as racists.  Well done, sir!


by bellarose on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:21:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (none / 0)

I honestly can't see how anyone believes this. What, Obama wasn't going to get large numbers of AA votes anyway? Huh? It's worth it to him to get a small increment in a minority voting block to risk alienating a larger increment of a larger voting block? How does that make sense?

In any case, you can hardly blame Obama or his campaign for Billy Shaheen (the first person to bring race-baiting into the campaign) nor Geraldine Ferraro (by far the most prominent, and worst in many ways, race-baiter). I blame neither Clinton nor her campaign for them either, mind you, but they're clearly not on Obama's team, nor were they trying to help Obama in any way. And even JJ Jr's Katrina remarks (which I find unacceptable as well) are hardly as nasty as Shaheen's and far less offensive than Ferraro's.


No Way. No How. No McCain-Palin!
by Texas Gray Wolf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:34:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (none / 0)

They're pretty much groupies.  It's all about being in the thrall of her celebrity.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:56:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (none / 0)

I wish it was that simple. A lot of the men were claiming Indiana was rigged by the mayor of Gary, and then went on in expletive detail about how the party had been hijacked, Obama had a conspiracy, everyone was hoodwinked, and then more apocalyptic stuff

This isn't to put TD or Alegre in that category, but Pagan Power is close


by duende on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:21:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (none / 0)

The best part is their "anti-communist" attack line on Obama.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:41:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Mission Accomplished? (none / 0)

It's the Democratic party, but it's never been completely democratic in picking a nominee....people seem to forget this is a party nomination, not an elected office...traditionally it was mostly done behind the scenes, much of it is open caucuses now, but that's not "democratic" either and in fact the rules allow pledged delegates to switch. The standards are different in different states, there are open, closed, semi-open primaries, open and closed caucuses, and even prima-caucuses.

That said, Obama would be a fool to announce himself as the nominee on May 20, that is clearly a trial balloon from his campaign intended to rattle the Clinton campaign, nothing more. If Obama announced that he was the presumptive nominee on May 20 it would change nothing except make him look arrogant, which is the last thing he needs now...time is on his side, he can afford to wait the process out another a couple of weeks (after 18 months, what's 14 days?)


by Alice in Florida on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:23:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (2.00 / 4)

So campaign debt and fundraising and money matters trump the Democratic process?  How clever of Sen. Obama!


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:12:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (2.00 / 7)

and delegates, popular votes, states and REALITY.


by cherrygarcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:15:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: When the Clinton Campaign files with the FEC (1.50 / 2)

If you're going to discuss the point I was trying to make, don't chop it in half. don't leave Clinton out of this.

Besides, may be he's trumping this democratic process, but she seems to be trumping the upcoming one.


_____________
changiness
by lizardbox on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:17:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

She's certanly not averse (none / 0)

to continuing to take money from her supporters while intending to pay back her loans to herself with interest with their donations, all while having no chance whatever of winning the nomination.  


by ReillyDiefenbach on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:39:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Anger the next stage in the grieving process: (1.66 / 3)

Anger:

Whenever one's identity and social order face the possibility of destruction, there is a natural tendency to feel angry, frustrated, helpless, and/or hurt. The volatile reactions of terror, hatred, resentment, and jealousy are often experienced as emotional manifestations of these feelings."


by venician on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:57:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 6)

There is just no path to the nomination anymore for Hillary. The superdelegates are announcing for Obama at a rate of 4 or 5 per day now. The "new Michigan plan" only gives Hillary a 10-delegate margin, which doesn't help much at all. Oregon results will look similar to North Carolina.

Do the MATH. Obama only needs 176 delegates to clinch, while Hillary needs 328.5. There are only 484.5 delegates left. Hillary will need 68% of ALL REMAINING delegates to win. As the superdelegates continue to pledge for Obama this impossible climb only gets more difficult.

The cries for her to drop out will continue to get louder (see McGovern). Especially if the campaign continues to amplify racial issues, which divide the party. It's time to unite the party and take on John McCain.

There is no longer a path to the nomination for Hillary. She needs to bow out or it will be perceived that she is running for 2012 (and helping McCain).

by power of truth on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:07:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 4)

What is the path for the self-anointed one?

It's the same path for either:  superdelegates.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:18:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 4)

It's ironic that you go on and on about preserving the "democratic process" then you imply that the path to victory for Hillary is the superdelegates overturning the people's choice.


by catalysis on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:49:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (1.00 / 2)

"The superdelegates are announcing for Obama at a rate of 4 or 5 per day now."

superdels dont vote until the convention, so neither Odrama nor Hillary have even a single superdel vote yet.


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:54:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

Unfortunately for you, dittohead, it's not going to the convention.  Please go back to redstate.

(this guy is actually a dittohead - I don't throw that around.)


by Mostly on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:52:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Okay, okay, okay, (none / 0)

this is how it works. No, no, no, no. Okay, this is how it works. No,  no, no, no. Okay, this way. No, no, no, no., Okay,...."

You guys crack me up.

Why don't we schedule the primaries reverse alphabetically by city in Friedman units, at which point there will be a Twister death match between two of their senior staffers? The winner of each match gets π delegates, and the first one to infinity gets to face off against John McCain's corpse wearing a Speedo. Sound good?


by bookish on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:56:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

LOL! (none / 0)

It was the twister death match that got me.  That post must be saved for when were all ready to laught.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:19:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm not waiting (none / 0)

I figure we may as well start laughing now, lest this place become a complete parody of itself.


by bookish on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:46:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

A few things have changed since I posted (none / 0)

1.) Obama picked up 2 more superdelegates and now needs only 174.

2.) There are now only 482.5 delegates remaining.

One thing hasn't changed. Hillary still needs 328.5 delegates to win.

The hill keeps getting steeper and steeper...

by power of truth on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:20:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The super delegates care more about fund raising (none / 0)

than they do about Hillary's pledged delegate deficit. And Hillary has no money while Obama is sitting on $60 million dollars and out raising his burn rate daily.

Hillary's anemic fund raising and financial mismanagement of her campaign are more important to the super delegates than anything else right now. There is zero chance that the SD's are going to shut off the money faucet that Obama has opened.

So Hillary supporters can throw out whatever crazy shit they want to about taking this to Denver or voting for McCain, it really doesn't matter. I know it must be frustrating - but the reality of the situation is that Obama holds all the cards. Hillary won't be the VP and she won't get Obama to retire her debt. There is no way that Obama is going to jeopardize the good will of 1.5 million donors to appease the egos of the Clintons.

This campaign has been over since Wisconsin.


by johnnyappleseed on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:15:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

No, appeasing the Clintons is very important... (none / 0)

As you can see there are a lot Clinton supporters.  Having the Clintons on our side is only a good thing and despite what you might think of them we have a bigger goal.  We need to end this war.  And we do that with them on our side.


John McCain wants you to be poor!
by nklein on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:40:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Excuses to keep Running (2.00 / 7)

Didn't Hillary say this would be done in February?


by steampunkx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:10:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Excuses to keep Running (none / 0)

What's the relevance of this?  Didn't Obama say Indiana would be the tiebreaker?


by slynch on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:00:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 4)

Even in Hillary's best case scenario, Obama will still lead in every conceivable metric after Oregon, unless some there is some dramatic shift in this race. Nothing about MI or FL can change that. So why not declare victory? Personally, I think he should wait until June 3rd. But it really doesn't matter at this point. Nothing Clinton can do between now and August can change the fact that Obama now has an insurmountable lead in every metric.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:36:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 1)

Yes, and Hillary lost, is losing, will continue to lose.

Take your defeat to the convention if you must. You're just marginalising reasonable Hillary supporters to the the manic bigoted undemocratic diehards - and my guess is the democratic party could do without them


by duende on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:18:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (1.00 / 2)

says the guy who doesn't want to count all the votes


Until recently I was selling drugs, and now I'm selling Obama T-shirts.
by switching sides on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:55:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (1.00 / 1)

Just like Saddam Hussein YOU want to count all the votes when there WAS ONLY ONE NAME ON THE BALLOT

Love your idea of democracy. Do you fancy a job as Robert Mugabwe's campaign manager?


by duende on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:27:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 1)

dont you mean 11 days BEFORE the meeting?  on to denver!


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:28:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 1)

Methinks HillaryWorld needs oxygen...her underlings are already trying to negotiate her way onto the ticket.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:47:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Terrible Irony (2.00 / 1)

This is a Democracy, remember?

Do you even recognize the horrible irony of this question? Even after Michigan and Florida are counted, Hillary will be behind in popular votes, in states won, and (most importantly) in pledged delegates. You are urging her to "take it to the convention" so that she can convince the super-delegates to cast their votes in OPPOSITION to the democratically elected nominee. Do the math for yourself.

Who were you saying was desperate?


by not Brit on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:54:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]

BUT the nominee can not be elected (2.00 / 1)

without the supers who can vote as they please. It ain't pretty but it's true. Will they give it to Clinton, highly doubt it, but really, Obama has not won it yet and will not and can not until the convention so all the arrogance and hyperbole around here just helps push more Clinton supporters even further away from Obama who is going to need every potential voter Obama supporters keep piling on to.

The process, stupid as it is, with our caucuses, and weighted voting and assorted other anti democratic amenities, is what it is and no one has won this contest yet. No one knows what the future will bring, not even the chosen one.


berkshiretrueblue Commited to helping elect a Democrat as President "Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo" Ambroise Bierce
by berkshiretrueblue on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:09:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: BUT the nominee can not be elected (none / 0)

exactly right.  nice post.


by slynch on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:03:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

Florida (and presumably Michigan) voters WERE enfranchised....  We were able to go to the polls, we were able to vote, our votes were counted (otherwise you wouldn't know the margins) and our votes were tabulated for all of the issue and down ticket races....

There is actual disenfranchisement occurring in this country (thank you Indiana et. al.), neither Florida nor Michigan fit the standard....


"If you ever post anything on that website again, I will shove a motherboard so far up your a$$...!" C.J Cregg
by JenKinFLA on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:42:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 7)

"No matter what happens, I will work for the nominee of the Democratic Party because we must win in November."
   -Hillary Clinton
"As Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border."
by fugazi on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:42:19 PM EST

too bad her supporters don't follow her (2.00 / 3)


by ab03 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:41:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 2)

Clinton will pull out before the end of June and you know it. Her top campaign workers all say this ends in June no matter what.
by Cheebs on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:42:23 PM EST

Re: Desperate for Victory (1.83 / 6)

It looks to me sort of like Bush declaring "Mission Accomplished!"  ;)


by Hurdy Gurdy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:43:09 PM EST

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 3)

ROFL!


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:02:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

Rolling on the floor with laughter? Can I have whatever you're taking.

Unless you're the same pagan power who also writes the bigoted racist right-wing bile you can find below:

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/07/ i-call-a-spade-a-spade/

In that case, I wouldn't go near you with a barge pole


by duende on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:35:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 0)

Pagan Power is that really you who posted that article?

What a racist and hateful person you are.

Troll.


by cherrygarcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:01:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 4)

Or Hillary declaring they'd have this thing locked up by February!

Ha!


by steampunkx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:11:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I would donate money (none / 0)

for a "Mission Accomplished" commercial to start airing as soon as Obama declares victory. Run the footage of George Bush on the carrier deck under the mission accomplished banner and have a voice over saying that Obama is declaring victory while the battle is still being waged, just like Bush.


by georgiapeach on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:13:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

why stop at the convention? (2.00 / 6)

Maybe HRC should take her argument to the Electoral College?

"I realize you were elected to vote for Obama, but he's incapable of being POTUS b/c...."

Or maybe, HRC can persuade the Chief Justice to administer the oath to her?


Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:44:58 PM EST

Re: why stop at the convention? (none / 0)

Well, it's clear right now that Obama will never be president.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:58:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 4)

TD, your support for your candidate is remarkable, and should be commended.

Yet, What will her net delegate counts be if she wins WV 60-40 or even 70-30?  2 to 10?  You realize that there are only 28 Delegates in the state, correct?  It won't make any reasonable difference.  On May 20th,  Maybe she nets another five or ten delegates.  Maybe.


by NewOaklandDem on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:45:47 PM EST

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 3)

fair point, maybe I'll edit the diary to emphasize that the effect of a 40-point loss in WV is less about delegates and more about the appearance that Obama can't get enough people that he'll need in WV to vote for him.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:19:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

what makes you think they won't vote for him in the GE if  Hillary and Bill and stumping for him ???


President Barack Obama "get used to it"
by wellinformed on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:24:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Don't you mean (2.00 / 4)

he can't get enough "hard-working Americans, white Americans" to vote for him?

Lucky for us, America comes in colors.


by McNasty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:32:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 1)

Didn't you also say the other day that Obama would also be losing A.A. support on Tuesday?????


by venician on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:34:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 1)

Sadly, neither Democrat is going to win WV in November unless there's a huge, huge landslide.  The state is turning redder and redder every year.  Unfortunately, the same factors that give Hillary the edge in the primary also make the state more hospitable to McCain in the fall.  I'm not saying Hillary is a Republican.  Far from it.  But the voters there seem far more motivated by cultural issues and foreign policy than those in other states.  I went door-to-door there for Kerry in 2004 and encountered a lot of hostility for national Democrats, not excluding the Clintons.


by TL on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:32:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Victory (2.00 / 1)

Five more weeks of this.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:45:58 PM EST

Re: Victory (2.00 / 1)

Do you really think Al...er, the true dead-enders will give up when Hillary does?  Or will they fight on like one of those Japanese soldiers who were captured 5-10 years after the war was over?


"I'll bite your legs off!" -- HRC 2008!
by username3 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:53:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Victory (2.00 / 2)

I think they will group together on a few anti-Obama blogs.  

I said before that we are watching history.  We missed the birth of the Clinton Haters in the early 90's because it was all behind the scenes.  What we are witnessing here is the birth of the Obama Haters, and I imagine they will continue doing what they are doing now throughout his Presidency.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:58:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Victory (none / 0)

You failed to mention IF he becomes president. Don't make the mistake of labeling Clinton supporters Obama haters. But having read your comments and your fellow Obama supporters comments about your comments it's clear to me that you are a Clinton hater. Maybe what you are witnessing is a figment of your imagination. I am a clear Hillary supporter and the only thing I HATE is the type of Barack supporters that automatically assume that anyone not supporting him is against him and anyone still supporting Hillary is an Obama hater.


by worlddem on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:14:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Victory (none / 0)

Nobody said anything of the sort - we're talking about a small group of people who swarm around hillaryis44.com, noquarterusa.net, and a couple of other places, and spill out onto this site.  These people are unhinged.

You jumped in to defend yourself for no reason.  Relax.


by Mostly on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:56:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Victory (2.00 / 1)

insurgent HRC supporters???
gosh I hope not they are fanatical enough as it is..... imagine how desperate they will be when they have nothing to live for
President Barack Obama "get used to it"
by wellinformed on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:26:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Victory (none / 0)

Insurgent?  Fanatical?  Desperate? It's language like this that has so many HRC supporters infuriated.  It's not enough that you constantly sling every piece of mud you can find at our preferred candidate, you have to sling it onto her supporters as well.

There's a well-known psychological phenomenon called "transference."  In short, every time you sling the mud, on some level people hear it coming--not from you--but from Barack Obama.  If he's lost the Clinton supporters in the general election, he can look to his own supporters for the cause, I think.


The universe is a casual place, not a suit-and-tie affair.
by mtnspirit on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:33:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Victory (none / 0)

Don't worry - only half a dozen people read MYDD.


by interestedbystander on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:15:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Victory (2.00 / 4)

If you're so bored, perhaps you should consider working to GOTV for your candidate in upcoming states.  He's gonna need your help.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:20:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Victory (2.00 / 2)

I expect him to lose WV and KY by 35pts.  

Unlike some, I can take both wins and loses and see them in the proper perspective.  

I don't need to rely on spin.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:51:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Victory: News for you TexasDarlin' (none / 0)

Obama is already working voter registration STILL in 43 states.

Your rants and wishful thinking grow more absurd with each and every post.

You know how naive you are? Read this:

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/story ?id=4810932


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:57:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 4)

How convenient, and how utterly arrogant, that Senator Obama would seek to anoint himself before the Rules Committee has the opportunity to discuss enfranchising 2.5 million voters who went to the polls in Michigan and Florida.

This issue will not be lost by conservatives/republicans either, I've already heard the discussion of FL & MI disenfranchment on talk radio.
by soyousay on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:46:04 PM EST

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 4)

The metric keeps changing.

We've gone from delegates to popular vote to "the big four that you have to win in november" to electability to "What will the conservative talk radio hosts say??!?!!?"

ok.


by Democratic Unity on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:52:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 3)

How long until this makes the Rec list?


by cherrygarcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:46:09 PM EST

3.14159 seconds n/t (2.00 / 3)


by UrbanRedneck on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:05:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 1)

Done.


John McCain
by Mandoliniment on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:13:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 1)

As of 11:24 am, Texasdarlin and Alegre have two each up, sharing the fifth slot with another delusional cheerleading diary for Clinton.

It'll be interesting to see how things will look here in June.  I predict that once these writers realize the nomination is gone, their diaries will dovetail with Redstate ones. They'll hang on to every Obama gaffe, suspicious association, and bit of evidence that Obama can't relate to blue collar white folk.  It'll all be under the veneer of "concerned Deomcrat", with a whiff of "I told you so", no doubt.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:25:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

I hope not.

This is one of the best progressive blogs around and we need
Jerome fighting the good fight with us.


by cherrygarcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:04:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 8)

You still don't get it. Even with counting Fl. and Mi. hillary would still be BEHIND. Sorry to break it to you but this race is over and OBAMA is the Democratic nominee.


by venician on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:46:40 PM EST

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 3)

No you don't get it....count the votes, then there's no problem.


by soyousay on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:49:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The DNC will resolve it before the (2.00 / 1)

convention. Well before. So there's no problem.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:03:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: The DNC will resolve it before the (none / 0)

That's why Hillary needs to continue on.


by soyousay on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:23:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What's why? The resolution won't (none / 0)

change anything.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:05:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: What's why? The resolution won't (none / 0)

Supers can change their minds. Clinton should continue on until the votes are counted in ALL states.


by soyousay on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:22:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They've only been changing them (none / 0)

against her. She can stay in as long as she wants. It's her legacy.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:55:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 3)

Nobody is saying that the votes won't be counted.  They are saying that it won't matter.  That's why you are seeing the Obama camp willing to talk about this sort of thing after last Tues.


by Lawyerish on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:03:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

Fine...then Hillary should stay in until then.


by soyousay on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:23:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

she can stay in as long as she wants. hell, she can try to march to the podium on obama's inauguration day. that doesn't mean he won't or shouldn't start working on ge, and that doesn't mean he shouldn't claim victory.

she lost. deal.


by jbill on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:18:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 5)

Same path for both:  superdelegates.

Get it?  Guess not.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:21:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 2)

most of them are hawking their signed Obama Time cover on Ebay.


by cherrygarcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:26:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

I hate reading this nonsense.

Yes, Obama will not reach 2025 on pledged delegates alone, but don't you understand that it's a lot easier to reach 2025 total delegates when you've got more pledged delegates than your opponent?

Ok, there are 796 total superdelegates.  If Barack Obama were leading in pledged delegate count by 795, would you still say "Same path for both:  superdelegates"?

See what I'm getting at here? Just because neither candidate will have enough pledged delegates to secure the nomination, that doesn't somehow make it an even playing field.


John McCain the flip-flopper...
by chinapaulo on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:56:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 9)

McAuliffe: This Race Won't Go To The Convention
By Greg Sargent - May 8, 2008, 12:54PM

On one of the morning shows today, top Hillary adviser Terry McAuliffe said that the Dem primary will not -- repeat, not -- be going to the convention:

   "It'll be over early June," McAuliffe said. "We've all said we'll be together at the end. If Hillary doesn't win, Hillary, President Clinton, myself, we'll be over there helping Senator Obama. And, likewise, Senator Obama will come together to help Hillary if she's the nominee."

Some will be tempted to think that McAuliffe is deliberately trying to assuage fears of a floor fight in order to prevent party leaders and others from pressing super-delegates to flock to Obama in hopes of ending the contest. And this is certainly possible.


Dream for tomorrow but fight for it today.
by TruthMatters on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:47:35 PM EST

If true, I can only imagine that (2.00 / 4)

he'll be doing it to blunt the news of Hillary's 2 decisive primary wins after the media declared her "toast".

I think it would be in his best interest not to do that because it would indeed be and appear presumptive on his part, so maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing, if you follow me ;)


by phoenixdreamz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:48:25 PM EST

Re: If true, I can only imagine that (2.00 / 2)

Decisive implies that wins in KY & WV change something. They don't.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:58:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I was thinking more along the lines (none / 0)

of Hillary not giving in to the calls of some for her to end her campaign now without giving everyone who has a right to vote in the primary process their chance to express a preference.

As for it not changing anything, you're correct - Obama will not win the primary without the superdelegates awarding it to him.


by phoenixdreamz on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:07:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Neither of them will (none / 0)

However, as Clinton wanted this over on 2/5 or before I'm sure she doesn't share your belief that every voter should have a say.

Be that as it may, I think she's done after the last primary not on May 20.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:09:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I was thinking more along the lines (2.00 / 2)

Wasn't having the SDs award HRC's strategy until they realized the SDs didn't like her campaign?


by steampunkx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:12:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 4)

Another thing, like I said in another diary.

Hillary will not win in Puerto Rico.

If she does, it will be very, very close.

(I am in PR right now, I should know)

This is a Clinton talking point.

So if you are counting on that to be a deal breaker, I think you
will all be very dissapointed.


by cherrygarcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:49:26 PM EST

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 1)

Yeah?  I've been wondering about the Puerto Rico thing.

I haven't seen any polls, and it seems the whole "Hillary has PR" assumption is based upon the "Hillary owns the Latin vote" line.  I guess, it's supposed to follow that Puerto Ricans should vote like Latinos in south Texas, because, hey, they're all Latinos, right. As if they are all one bloc and not two distinct groups.

The whole "Hillary owns Puerto Rico" line bugs.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:15:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 2)

And I'm in California.  So?

What's your source?


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:23:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

I'm your source.

For starters, the 2 leaders of the Democratic party in Puerto Rico are Clinton tools who changed the vote from caucus to a primary as recently as March. Nothing fishy there, huh?

They are both despised politicians here. Many local groups, union and politicians are calling for a boycott of the primary so getting out the vote will be hard.

Nothing like the 1 million the Clinton camp is throwing around. If 1 million voters actually do come out to vote it will be to get on the good side of the likely Democratic candidate. Obama.

Boricuas are VERY, VERY high information voters. They love their politics down here. It's called the national pastime. Spin is useless when the facts are clear. Anybody can do the math.Everybody loves to back a winner. It's no different here. Why would they vote for Hillary when the future POTUS is promising more or less the same things and has more of a chance of actually being in the White House? Makes no sense.

I'll be glad to link to sources as developments unfold.

It's not going to happen.


by cherrygarcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:37:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

Obama is a hoopster too.

Not that it matters that much, but it doesn't hurt as it didn't hurt in

NC and Indiana.

People are basketball CRAZY over here.


by cherrygarcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:40:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 4)

How about a link to that WV poll other than Susan Hu's word for it?  Weird how Susan Hu doesn't link to anything either... Anyone else seen that poll?


I like baked beans.
by SpideyDem on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:50:56 PM EST

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 2)

I'm working on that and will update with it as soon as I get a link.  (got another job here, guys, sorry!)


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:27:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Methodical and Relentless (2.00 / 8)

Obama is not desperate, he is methodically applying the death by a thousand cuts to the Clinton campaign. Each week she falls a little further behind, the bar she has to clear gets a little higher, her situation a little more desperate. If you think that's an exageration look at Bill Clintons face during Hillary's indiana 'Victory Speech' he looked like his dog died. Even the master politician and showman couldn't pretend for the cameras.

Obama has never wavered, no change in strategy as he had the right one from the beginning, no reshuffling staff, message and persona just relentlessly moving the ball down the field with his eyes on the goal. He has taken everything that is thrown at him and just keeps coming, calm, cool and collected a man with a mission and the wherewith all to make it happen.

Come June the super delegates will deliver the final blow and it will be over.


by hankg on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:51:16 PM EST

Re: Methodical and Relentless (none / 0)

"Obama has never wavered, no change in strategy as he had the right one from the beginning"

right, he's keeping his same strategy: even after a big win in nc, negatively goading his supporters to donate based on hillary loaning herself money, rather than based on his own merits.


by california voter on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:19:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 6)

So Obama doesn't want the votes of people in FL, MI and Puetro Rico to count?


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:52:19 PM EST

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

The people of PR don't count in the general so it's a bit hard to be worked up over that.


But in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.
by thezzyzx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:53:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 3)

What about the two other States?


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:56:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

The DNC will resolve (2.00 / 2)

them very soon.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:57:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

I'd love for them to count.  Come up with a way for them to have a fair election that the locals will support and I'd be all about that.  Barring that, there will be some sort of weird compromise solution that will net Clinton another 20-30 delegates or so, but won't change anything.


But in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.
by thezzyzx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:58:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 1)

They'll be seated, and you'll be left with one less desperate argument.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:09:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 1)

Hillary was the one who signed an agreement not to campaign or participate in FL/MI primaries.

Why Can't Hillary Keep Her Word?


by steampunkx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:13:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 2)

Obama ran a TV ad in FL. And what agreement are you referring to? Because you might be surprised with what the facts really are.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:16:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He ran a national ad, spinmeister (2.00 / 2)

I'd be amazed to hear how you spin this.  But it doesn't matter anymore anyway.  She's lost, and you're going to have to settle yourself with the fact that Obama isn't just your nominee, but your next president.


by steampunkx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:19:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He ran a national ad, spinmeister (none / 0)

he won't be president.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:24:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He ran a national ad, spinmeister (2.00 / 4)

You might want to change your handle to "ostrich06" -- an animal more fitting for your worldview.

If this weren't an anon blog, I'd bet you.  And I'd bet the farm.


by steampunkx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:29:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He ran a national ad, spinmeister (none / 0)

Obama is going to look  like a real winner next week when he gets crushed in WV. How's the electoral college looking BTW. It's looking like President McCain. Walk off the cliff with Bambie Obama.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:34:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He ran a national ad, spinmeister (none / 0)

He ran ads in Florida and he held a press conference in Florida.  IOW, he cheated.  He's used Hillary's plans almost word for word in his stump speeches.  IOW, he's a thief.  His remarks about his grandmother and his "uncle" show he'll do anything to win.  IOW, he's loyal only to his own ambition.  I could go on and on but anyone who pays attention, already knows the long list of Obominations.


by Tolstoy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:14:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He ran a national ad, spinmeister (none / 0)

He ran a national ad. Florida is part of the country. When you buy a national ad, you can't ask the networks to cut out certain areas.

That's how it works.

Why is Hillary so disingenuous about Florida and Michigan? Why did her campaign advisors agree that Florida and Michigan should not count as is?


by PSUdan on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:31:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (1.66 / 3)

Here are the real facts on MI, FL and that "pledge"

http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/4/23/1020 17/841


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:24:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate Times (2.00 / 2)

call for desperate explanations.


by steampunkx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:31:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate Times (2.00 / 3)

what a tripe, meaningless response.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:33:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I meant "desperate rationalizations" (2.00 / 1)

and you meant "trite."

Look, I'm trying to help you get over this.  Have you noticed that ONLY YOU GUYS are talking about this last ditch attempt to change the rules?  The reason is the party simply isn't getting behind HRC.  The SD flood she maintained before SuperTuesday has become a trickle, and it's the last metric left that she can claim to beat Obama by.  And at the current rate, he overtakes her with switches and declarations by the end of the month.

As for seating MI and FL -- they may get seated, but no one outside the Clintonsphere actually thinks it's fair to award her the delegates.  So you're screwed there.

Finally, and this is the MATH that truly matters, your camp is out of money, running on fumes.  That's not the kind of "strength" that the SDs and party leadership respond to.


by steampunkx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:39:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I meant "desperate rationalizations" (2.00 / 3)

how kind of you, but we don't need nor do we desire your 'help.' do you think you are gaining support for obama? quite the opposite.


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:46:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I meant "desperate rationalizations" (none / 0)

You say that like you're holding out, like you'd help Obama if only people were nicer. But you made up your mind awhile ago, yes?  


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:04:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I meant "desperate rationalizations" (2.00 / 3)

LOL.  Have you not noticed no one needs or wants your "help".  


by Tolstoy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:01:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I meant "desperate rationalizations" (none / 0)

no, he meant tripe, do you know what it means? do you eat it?  You're just being ugly you know, is that what you mean to be?  She won Indiana, he said that would close the deal, whoever won Indiana, she said she'd go on until everyone votes.  If you mean to chase people off the blogs by being ugly, the second part is working.  


just say it: Medicare for All
by anna shane on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:08:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I meant "desperate rationalizations" (none / 0)

He really did mean trite - an adjective; not tripe, a noun.  Not interchangeable.


by interestedbystander on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:33:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I meant "desperate rationalizations" (none / 0)

Drive you off the blogs?  No, I'm not that hubristic.  Just seeing if any of you will actually respond to the metrics.

Apparently not.


by steampunkx on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:44:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

BlueGenes: (2.00 / 1)

Why did this comment merit a 1? Do you understand the ratings process on this site or not?


Fight for Democrats in Congress.
by owl06 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:39:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 1)

Here you go!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmUVr_Qt2 Wg

DNC Chairman Howard Dean
Letter to Democratic Presidential Candidates
August 31, 2007

As the leader of the Democratic Party, I strongly urge you to adhere to the 2008 Delegate Selection Rules...
The 2008 Delegate Selection Rules adopted by the full DNC at its August 2006 meeting clearly provide that only 4 states - Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire and South Carolina - may hold their respective contests prior to February 5, 2008. The findings of Non-Compliance included a 100% loss of pledged and unpledged delegates.

Hillary Clinton Campaign
September 1, 2007

Clinton Campaign
Statement On The
Four State Pledge

We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process. And we believe the DNC's rules and its calendar provide the necessary structure to respect and honor that role. Thus we will be signing the pledge to adhere to the DNC approved nominating calendar.
Added: April 06, 2008


by netgui68 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:52:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 1)

There was no such agreement as far as names on the ballot - in either state.  The agreement called for no campaigning but has absolutely nothing in it requiring candidates to remove their name from any ballot.

BO tried to goad Hillary into removing her name from MI's ballott and she called his bluff.  He did it to play up to voters in IA and he won the state with the stunt.  NOW he's crying foul because HE decided to take his name off the ballott?  He's willing to disenfranchise 2.6 million voters for his own selfish political gain?

Democrats count ALL THE VOTES.  Not just those in states that give hom an edge.

DEMOCRATS count all the votes.

Democrats COUNT all the votes.

Democrats count all the VOTES.

Its a very simple concept really- one that our nation was built upon.

Anything else is just UnAmerican dammit.  :)


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:39:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"CAMPAIGN OR PARTICIPATE" (2.00 / 3)

Alegre, you're in for a painful shock soon.  Get reality-based, or prepare for the worst case of cognitive dissonance in history.

The rest of your explanation is just spin, prevarafication and outright smear.

Have fun with that, I'm guessing you're about to become a "McMaverick."

And that's really sad.


by steampunkx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:42:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "CAMPAIGN OR PARTICIPATE" (1.00 / 1)

Listen up, punk.  Alegre has made her political bones.  She doesn't need schooling on Realpolitik from the likes of you.


by Tolstoy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:06:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "CAMPAIGN OR PARTICIPATE" (none / 0)

The name calling isn't necessary.


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:03:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "CAMPAIGN OR PARTICIPATE" (none / 0)

Pay attention.  It's his screen name.


by Tolstoy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:06:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "CAMPAIGN OR PARTICIPATE" (none / 0)

And I'm sure you meant it that way...NOT


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:12:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "CAMPAIGN OR PARTICIPATE" (none / 0)

I've made my "political bones" as a professional analyst.  So your "Impressed by Partisanship" really looks silly, and amateur, from my POV.


by steampunkx on Fri May 09, 2008 at 12:42:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Sort of. (2.00 / 2)

The agreement called for no campaigning but has absolutely nothing in it requiring candidates to remove their name from any ballot.

No, nothing requiring them.  But you're once again being intellectually dishonest, alegre.

You know the specific wording was "not campaign or participate."  Removing one's name from the ballot is a reasonable interpretation of that.  Indeed, every candidate but Senator Clinton did so (Dennis Kucinich requested removal but failed and stayed on in MI).

So next is where you say: "He chose to take his name off."  Which again is technically true, but intellectually dishonest.  It would be more truthful to say "only Senator Clinton did not try to get off the ballot."  I appreciate your generally positive advocacy of your candidate, but your stubborn refusal to present the facts has not helped anything.


by McNasty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:54:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

American is a Nation of Laws... (none / 0)

(and Rules)....Hillary agreed that MI an FL would not count remember. Now she want to change the rules "for her own selfish political gain".

You do see that don't you?

THERE WAS NOT AN ELECTION IN MI! It was little more then a poll. If you think that Hillary should be nominated based on MI then you don't really believe in Democracy. You just want Hillary to win....at all cost.


by JoeCoaster on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:59:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

Florida looks like a dolphin in that configuration.

Huh.


You haven't seen impatient until you've seen a monkey waiting for a donut.
by bjones on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:29:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 1)

Frankly speaking.

In Puerto Rico they don't really care as much as you would think.

Massive boycotts and lack of enthusiasm when the headlines in the local newspaper have already declared Obama the winner.

Everybody likes to back a winner.

So, pointless argument.


by cherrygarcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:58:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 2)

That seems to be exactly what is being implied. Obama wants to claim victory but he doesn't care if all the states have either the opportunity to vote or equal representation at the convention.

There are red states and blue states. There are only Obama states. And those are the only ones he cares about.


Visit Pagan Power You know you want to!
by Pagan Power on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:07:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 2)

If Clinton was the nominee on 2/5 do you think that she would have given a shit about the votes in the rest of the states?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:10:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (1.00 / 1)

Typical Obambi.  He's bored.  Just doen't like the hard work.  I mean, he's a man who for eight years only had a part-time job as a state legislator.  I think he's bought his own hype - thinks America should kiss his robe and just make him president now so he can start smoking again.


by Tolstoy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:19:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

Perhaps there are only white states too.

If you're the same pagan power who posted the following bigoted racist right-wing bile you can find below:

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/07/ i-call-a-spade-a-spade/

You are just a hate filled troll.


by duende on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:04:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

Here's the working link

http://noquarterusa.net/blog/2008/05/07/ i-call-a-spade-a-spade/

Are you the same pagan power?


by duende on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:05:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 0)

I second that....

again.

Pagan Power you are a sad and pathetic blogger.

Racist troll.


by cherrygarcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:10:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Your last line is just comedy. You must (2.00 / 3)

work for McSame.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:57:15 PM EST

It's still the math (2.00 / 2)

If Obama gets to 2025 on 5/20, it's over regardless of what happens on 5/31.  Why?  Because Clinton isn't going to net more than 30 delegates from this decision.  Obama will get at least 20 from PR and another 20 from SD/MT, so it'll still be over.


But in the unlikely story that is America, there has never been anything false about hope.
by thezzyzx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:57:20 PM EST

Re: It's still the math (2.00 / 2)

It's whomever gets to 2,209, delegates/supers together. It's not who has the most pledged delegates. Pledged delegates are really irrelevant at this point with the closest contest in memory. It is about who the supers believe can beat John McCain. Elections might be about the future but we can only make predictions based on past experience. That's what the supers are faced with.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:00:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's still the math (2.00 / 1)

Even if you count 2209 - which isn't going to be the deciding number, btw - she still can't catch him.

It IS about the pledged delegates.  The vast majority of S-D's have signaled a great reluctance to over-turn the pledged delegate leader.  The party leaders have consistently held that up as the standard for what should happen.  Now, the S-d's can go with whatever metric they like to make their decision; but there will never be enough of them defecting to Clinton, who you should admit: is broke and has ran a weak-ass campaign.  Why would they have any confidence about her shot in the Fall?


by Lawyerish on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:06:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's still the math (2.00 / 2)

Party leaders are supers themselves but they can't tell other supers how to vote. Sorry.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:10:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's still the math (none / 0)

Sure they can.  All these people owe each other multiple favors and have political alliances that are more important than any one presidential cycle.  Those in power are there for a reason in the house and senate.

Still plenty of room on the bus.  


by Lawyerish on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:42:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's still the math (2.00 / 1)

I'm sorry. Obama needs far fewer than Clinton. She'll be unable to convince enough to go her way.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:07:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: It's still the math (2.00 / 1)

Doesn't matter.

The nominating process is really in the superdelegates' hands. They're not required to go one way in response to the pledged delegate count. That's not in the rules. The rules say they are autonomous. There's a whole new campaign going on for the nomination right now and it's really out of the electorate's hands.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:12:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Doesn't matter? (2.00 / 1)

It doesn't matter if she doesn't get enough supers to go her way?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Doesn't matter? (2.00 / 1)

It doesn't matter that she needs more supers to go her way. They're campaigning for superdelegate support. Either her argument for electability vis-a-vis Obama will be compelling enough or it won't.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:18:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Doesn't matter? (2.00 / 1)

My guess:

Won't.


You haven't seen impatient until you've seen a monkey waiting for a donut.
by bjones on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:32:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Doesn't matter? (none / 0)

Won't.


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:25:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Doesn't matter? (2.00 / 1)

Umm... we won't know about that until the convention so folks need to chill.

Big-time!


Donate to Hillary Now!
by alegre on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:42:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So if Clinton had 2025 including supers (none / 0)

you mean she'd have to wait until the convention to be declared a winner?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:25:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Doesn't matter? (none / 0)

Sure we will.  Outside of the minds of raving lunatic Hillary supporters, the thing is over.


by Lawyerish on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:43:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Doesn't matter? (none / 0)

If the election is settled on the convention floor, we will lose in November. If Clinton wins it there, she gets destroyed in November and her political career is ruined. If Obama gets it on the convention floor and loses the general, Clinton will be blamed and her name will be mud in the party.

She knows this, and that's why even her folks say it's done in June, at the latest.

Here's what's gonna happen, Clinton Delusionists: She'll win WV, and the world will collectively shrug. She'll get 10 delegates or thereabouts and still be down 140. She'll get Kentucky by a considerable amount, and net maybe 15 delegates. Obama will get 10 out of Oregon that same day, and will claim victory after securing the pledged delegate lead.

At that point, the media narrative will write Clinton off, and if she carries on thereafter it will be as a Don Quixote figure. Maybe she'll grab 15 delegates out of PR, which will probably be offset by Montana and SD. So, she ends up down 130-135, maybe 120 if everything goes her way.

Michigan won't be seated as she wants. There will be some sort of compromise, or she will get nothing. Florida will, but its delegates will get half a vote as punishment.

Best case for her, she's down 100 June 4, which is 2 weeks after the media has declared BHO the winner and he's focused on McCain completely. His victory and surrounding attention will lead to a bump in the polls, a series of favorable coverage and a bunch of unpleasant post-mortems of the HRC campaign.

If you think the supers will overturn the pledged delegate count at the point, at least in sufficient numbers to tip the nomination, you are simply out of your mind.

Sorry. I know a lot of you passionately fought for her, and I respect that. But this is the time to rally around the nominee. If you don't like him, hit up Redstate or Taylor Marsh or whatever. But he's going to be the nominee, and the de facto head of the party, in about a month.

She's in check. Checkmate is a few moves away. She can fold now so we can move ahead, or we can play out this futile charade another few weeks. The outcome is the same.


by jbill on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:36:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ClintonBall Rules! (2.00 / 2)

Only according to the rules of ClintonBall: we're the Clintons, and we make the rules.


by steampunkx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:14:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ClintonBall Rules! (2.00 / 1)

Calvin would be so proud!


by cherrygarcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:18:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ClintonBall Rules! (2.00 / 1)

It would seem that she's actually in the driver's seat because Obama being the nominee right now is contingent upon her dropping out. When McCain became the nominee, he passed the undisputed threshold for amassed pledged delegate support. Obama hasn't passed the threshold and he won't. Neither candidate will, so it's a whole new ballgame. It's a campaign for superdelegates. And Clinton has a far better chance because she is arguing the one thing matters in electoral politics: "I alone can win!"


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:21:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ClintonBall Rules! (2.00 / 3)

Hillary is in the drivers seat?

Wow.

Just.....wow.


by cherrygarcia on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:27:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ClintonBall Rules! (2.00 / 1)

You are ignoring the fact that the SDs have gone, by a VAST majority, for Obama since Super Tuesday.  Her last remaining lead in ANY metric is SDs, and that's down to something like 19.5.


by steampunkx on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:28:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ClintonBall Rules! (none / 0)

Until I see the tidal wave, I will stand with my candidate, I will not waver, I will fight, I will believe that the better candidate is being tried by fire, with the punditry allied against her, for the betterment of her presidency.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:43:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: ClintonBall Rules! (none / 0)

Try 10.5 down.  And that number will drop before the day is over.

The truth is that it doesn't really matter how many she has any longer; only how many it takes for him to get to 2025.


by Lawyerish on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:46:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I alone can win!"???????!!!!!?!?! (none / 0)


 "And Clinton has a far better chance because she is arguing the one thing matters in electoral politics: "I alone can win!"

The only problem with that argument is ....

how can she prove if she is the only one that can beat MCcain if she CAN"T beat OBAMA ??!?!?!?

so there goes your argument


President Barack Obama "get used to it"
by wellinformed on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:39:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I alone can win!"???????!!!!!?!?! (none / 0)

A GE electoral argument is quite simple. It begins with the GE electoral maps on the MyDD homepage.

Checkmate.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:44:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I alone can win!"???????!!!!!?!?! (none / 0)

lol!  It's an argument, I suppose.

Those maps could all be fire-engine red in May, and cerulean blue by November.

I mean, who could have guessed the state of affairs for Clinton back in November 2007 for now?


You haven't seen impatient until you've seen a monkey waiting for a donut.
by bjones on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:55:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I alone can win!"???????!!!!!?!?! (none / 0)

You're definitely right there, you could've guessed.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:46:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I alone can win!"???????!!!!!?!?! (2.00 / 1)

Simple.  The demographics of a general election are totally different from the primary.  


by Tolstoy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:24:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Indeed. (none / 0)

So why is it that "only" Hillary can win?


Check out McCain.
by you like it on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:02:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

So many annoying things, but... (2.00 / 5)

... the whole arrogant assumption that Hillary owns certain blocs like latinos and gays is especially annoying.  I look forward to a more balanced rec list once the cheerleaders get dispirited enough to take a day or two off.


Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:07:45 PM EST

Re: So many annoying things, but... (2.00 / 3)

The idea that gays love Clinton has my girdle in knots, too. This 47-year-old gay man knows from personal experience that my civil rights are just another toy for the Clintons to triangulate with. No more.

Obama's not perfect, but he's perfect for me.


by Rationalisto on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:22:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So many annoying things, but... (none / 0)

I am gay and I can't wait for Clinton to lose. Every gay person I know can't wait for Clinton to lose.

I have lost every shred of respect I ever had for her, (which was thin to begin with...I just thought maybe she had a bad rap from her husband and she was alright...nope.)

I now know she would betray us on every promise she has ever made, just as fast as her husband betrayed gay people with DOMA and Don't Ask Don't Tell.

I am embarrassed for her. It is like watching a very slow motion train wreck. And watching people like the daily-rec'd-diary-fanclub is just as embarrassing.


Until we stop harming all other living beings, we are still savages. ~Thomas A. Edison
by mattjfogarty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:25:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: So many annoying things, but... (none / 0)

Me, too. I know some in our community have fond memories of the Clintons from the  nineties (which, for gays was more words than action: DADT, DOMA), but there are just as many of us who would like to move on.
 
Stop H8
by mikeinsf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:49:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 8)

For almost 8 years we have had to endure convoluted, tortured logic from the Bush administraion. Now we are getting a healthy dose of it here in Hillary-land. Ugh. ANd to think that it has been Obama supporters who have been accused of messiah worship. The inevitable, ready from Day 1, tested, candidate who had every single advantage a candidate could hope for blew it in the primaries. Absolutely blew it. And what is the response from the group who self-identifies as the mature and experienced wing of the Dem party? Messiah worship. No matter that Hillary absolutely failed the first test of Presidential leadership, she is infallible, she is still in it all she needs is a miracle. A huge miracle. The irony is rich and seemingly lost on many here at DD.


by AHunch on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:09:18 PM EST

Has Obama stopped campaigning? (2.00 / 3)

Has Obama stopped campaigning? Hillary is making campaign stops everywhere and sundry, but Obama seems to be making appearances to increase his prominence in the media.

I don't understand this. I mean, he's going to get blown out in WV in a few days. I guess it's part of his strategy to claim the nomination. It seems really desperate.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:09:44 PM EST

Re: Has Obama stopped campaigning? (2.00 / 5)

Pivoting to a GE campaign is desperate?


My candidate lost fair and square. So did yours. Get over it and let's kick McSame's ass!
by RLMcCauley on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:10:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Obama stopped campaigning? (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, if he doesn't have the nomination in hand.


by Zeitgeist9000 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:13:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Obama stopped campaigning? (2.00 / 4)

But since he does?


John McCain
by Mandoliniment on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:16:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Obama stopped campaigning? (2.00 / 1)

Back away from the troll with the too-insane sig line.


by Rationalisto on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:19:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Obama stopped campaigning? (2.00 / 3)

I know... But it's hard!


John McCain
by Mandoliniment on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:37:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Obama stopped campaigning? (none / 0)

Holy cow! That cartoon made me laugh in a highly inappropriate manner in front of my entire office.

My partner, on the other hand, would only sigh at its truthiness.


by Rationalisto on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:45:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Has Obama stopped campaigning? (1.75 / 4)

No shit. He'll declare May 20 because, on that day, he'll have amassed a majority of the pledged delegates, even including the likely compromises in Fl and Mi.

It won't be a declaration of victory, per se, but just a moment to reflect on the fact that, among the Democratic primary voters, an upstart Illinois senator took on a defeated an opponent who started out 30 points ahead of him in the polls, and who had the kind of name recognition and institutional support other candidates would kill for.

She lost. He won. And yeah, it will be a show of strength. But one he deserves, and one that will seal in the minds of voters and supers that he is the nominee, and Clinton's campaigning is simply spitting in the wind.

It's done. Delude yourself if you want. But Obama won. Clinton lost.


by jbill on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:27:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama does not need you campaingn advice (1.66 / 3)

hey save your idiotic advice for Hillary

the way Obama is campaigning was good enough to beat Hillary so  save it.

and you say Obama seems desperate you really need to look at Hillary ...she is tired with bags under her eyes and the campaign is broke

and she is pleading for fl MI  now that she losing  that does not look desperate to you ?  


President Barack Obama "get used to it"
by wellinformed on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:44:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ya. Desperate. (1.77 / 9)

Pssst. He's won. It's over. He's turning toward McCain now.

Someone posted this on another thread:



Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:15:27 PM EST

Ha. And to think of the TR's I haven't (none / 0)

given to Clinton supporters today. How ironic. Thank you Texas Darlin. I consider it an honor.


Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:41:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Just stop it, TD. (1.88 / 9)

As John Stewart once said, "you're hurting the country."


by McNasty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:15:51 PM EST

Re: Just stop it, TD. (2.00 / 1)

Apparently to disagree with TD gains you a troll rating. Uprated.


Your old role is rapidly aging. Please get out of the new one if you can't lend a hand, for the times they are a changing.
by Travis Stark on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:42:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Thanks. (none / 0)

But I could really care less about my mojo.  Jerome stripped my rating privileges immediately when I called him "an ass."


by McNasty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:57:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

He's justified (2.00 / 3)

May 20 is when he gets over 1627 pledged delegates and Clinton cannot overtake him in elected delegates no matter what she does.

I predict he will also get 2024 delegates total on this day or very shortly thereafter.  Gore, Pelosi, Carter, and the other elders will all come down and endorse him.

No more reason to keep this circus going after that.


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:16:10 PM EST

Re: He's justified (2.00 / 2)

2210 is the number if you recognize Fla. and Mich.  Oh yeah, but you don't.

Anyone else find it interesting that a growing collection of ultra-liberal party "elders" who have previously lost important elections seemingly want this process to end prematurely?  (McGovern, Carter, Kennedy, Kerry, Gore, Dean...)

Something about "lessons learned"...


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:34:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

sad (2.00 / 1)

i'm sure mcgovern wasn't "ultra liberal" (as an insult) when he was a Hillary supporter.


by ab03 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:42:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It won't matter. (2.00 / 1)

He'll have that number, too, by 5/31 when that's decided.

Anyone else find it interesting that a growing collection of ultra-liberal party "elders" who have previously lost important elections seemingly want this process to end prematurely?

"Prematurely?"

Are you serious?

This primary has gone on longer than any that I can remember.  Entire news shows have been created just to track it.  Your candidate wanted it to be over on Feb 5, and you're calling May 20 "premature?"

You're off your rocker if you think that argument is actually going to fly outside of HillaryIs44.


You can't stop the signal.

President "That One"

by Dracomicron on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:43:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's justified (1.75 / 4)

Denial is one of the stages of grief. The sooner you let go of that monkey on your back the sooner you will begin to heal. She won't be the nominee. She's not going to be President. I doubt that she'll even be Vice President. The party will placate Hillary for a little longer out of respect for her being married to a former president, but I think that many of them are just plain sick of her and her hissy fits.

Who in Congress would risk putting up with that for the next eight years!


"Beauty, more than bitterness, makes the heart break." Sara Teasdale
by april34fff on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:48:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's justified (2.00 / 1)

You have to remember, this is a woman who is used to bullying. And when she finds someone to stand up to her she can only throw what you call a "hissy fit". They have tried everything short of physical expulsion, to try to knock Obama off his pedastal, nothing's worked. She'll stop at nothing. Obama should be careful not to take any Ron Brown special plane trips over the Adriatic.


John McCain: Everyones nowhere man
by johnny sexton on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:12:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's justified (none / 0)

A tip:  that stages of grief thing...it's been used about 1000 times now by Obama bloggers on this site.  It's really old.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:05:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: He's justified (none / 0)

You are amazing.

What PUNISHMENT should FL and MI have? Please tell me? They broke the rules.

Instead of parroting the campaign talking points (which are obviously biased) why not take a realistic look? FL and MI broke the rules and can't simply be seated 'as is.'

If you want to talk about disenfranchising voters why not look at the state legislation for mocking the DNC as they pushed their primary date up.

Actually, look up disenfranchising. Why not look at Cuba where one person is on the ballot and this is considered legitimate.


by Zotnix on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:23:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (1.71 / 7)

It's all over but crying. Especially the crying.


by Rationalisto on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:18:20 PM EST

Crying is good. (2.00 / 0)

You always feel much better afterward.


by McNasty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:57:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Only a fool wants this to go to the convention (2.00 / 3)

Only a fool wants this to go to the convention and Senator Clinton is no fool. Here's how this will play out, Clinton will continue on through the rest of the remaining contests. She remains on the ballot regardless, has strong support, continues to bring in donations and she wants every delegate she can get. Also the remaining contests are in fairly cheap markets so it doesn't cost much to contest them.

Her campaign will bargain for the best resolution to Michigan and Florida they can get but it really doesn't matter because even in the most unfavorable resolution to Senator Obama he remains ahead in elected delegates and the likelihood that they get the most favorable resolution is remote anyway.

At that point she will suspend her campaign. Suspending her campaign lets her keep her delegates. She will do this because the overall reason for her campaign over the last several months has been that Obama can't win, that there might be some deep dark secret revealed, that Republicans will chew him up and spit him out. Only time will tell if this is true or not and her campaign has been largely unsuccessful in forcing it to happen. If she's right then this should become obvious by the convention at the end of August and she has enough delegates that if the superdelegates decided enmass to flip to her she could be the nominee, which they would do if what she suspects about him comes to pass.

Meanwhile she will campaign her heart out for him. Why? Because she has pledged to do so and as much as I disagree with how she does things she never does anything half way. Moreover doing so costs her nothing. Any scenario that would award her the nomination over him is largely out of her hands, she must simply wait and see what transpires. Additionally she wants a future in the party. If she is seen as the reason for his loss her future is doubtful and if she's right and Obama can't win in 2008 she wants to try again in 2012. She can't do that if she is the one blamed for his failure.


Proudly joining the legions of people and states that don't matter on May 20th.
by Obama Independent on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:23:50 PM EST

Re: Only a fool wants this to go to the convention (1.50 / 2)

I am beginning to think you are a Texasdreaming not a Texasdarling with your continued delusions on Hillary being the nominee.  But go ahead and continue if it makes you feel good.  You and the Clintons are a perfect match today.


by Spanky on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:56:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Only a fool wants this to go to the convention (2.00 / 4)

Spanky, thanks for your permission but I don't need it.

Apparently, though, you need to go back to Democracy 101 class where they explain how the Democratic nominee is chosen.  It's not by entitlement.  It's by a process that concludes at the convention.  And if enough pledged delegates aren't secured by a candidate, then the automatic delegates vote AT THE CONVENTION.


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:19:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Only a fool wants this to go to the convention (none / 0)

The "automatic delegates" vote at the convention whether enough pledged delegates are won or not.  

But by then, Clinton will have suspended her campaign and Obama will have announced his running mate and cabinet.

The "ON TO THE CONVENTION" talk is going to sound really unhinged in about five weeks.



Lost rate and rec for issuing a '1' to a trollish comment. The troll, not so much.

by map on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:22:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Only a fool wants this to go to the convention (none / 0)

OBama will not have announced his cabinet by then. He'd be a fool to do this. it only opens up the campaign for more scrutiny.


by Mayor McCheese on Fri May 09, 2008 at 04:17:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They Both are Great Candidates (2.00 / 1)

Folks, this  has been a very competitive, historical and emotional campaign.  For the last 18 months both candidates have given every ounce of energy they possibly can.  That being said, Hillary has every right to "fight" for the nomination and decide, for herself, when it is time to leave.

Both candidates have the best interest of the average American citizen in their minds.  Both have very similar plans on how to make these citizens' lives better.  Both want to face the challenges the USA has, head on.

Do not discount how much passion and fortitude it has taken these two candidates to travel to every state and speak and meet millions of Americans listening to their problems.  We, as a party, are extremely fortunate to have two candidates who care so much.

Think, really think, about how devastating this will be for either candidate to lose an extremely close nominating contest, knowing they and their supporters truly believe that they are the best suited to do what America needs right now.

An unprecidented amount of time, money, emotion and positive energy are invested in this historical campaign.  When either candidate makes the decision to drop out, it will feel like the death of a loved one to some of us.  Please respect others.


Toot, thank you for raising such a terrific person...You done good and we will have you in our hearts.
by hootie4170 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:43:22 PM EST

To be honest... (2.00 / 1)

... it would hurt me far worse to see an apparently crazed and delusional Obama staggering towards a loss that everyone understood but him. Hope spring eternal and all of that, but I just feel like the way Clinton is ending this has to make all but the fiercest denialists sort of ill.

I know a little of what that would feel like, because Bill Clinton was the first president I voted for. I will always carry a certain fondness for him because of that. Which has made watching him in this election painful indeed.


"Mom, baseball, apple pie, and a unified Democratic juggernaut."
by Purplepeople on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:21:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

RMillions of people CAN'T AFFORD OBAMA (none / 0)

Hundreds of companies desperately want Obama to preserve their healthcare hegemony..

We are collateral damage.. We own homes, have savings. They want it, before everything falls apart.

They are determined to get it.


public option=not affordable for middle. It cant cover all affordably, google adverse selection for why
by architek on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:02:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They Both are Great Candidates (none / 0)

Nice comment but looking at you sig line I can't help but wonder why you wouldn't choose the person who has spent and entire lifetime working on behalf of "kids". No answer wanted or being solicited.  Just wondering out loud.


by Tolstoy on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:46:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 2)

Another "Masterpeice" by texasdarlin...and btw.....this will be decided looooooooooooong before the convention, you can take that to the bank.


"I am standing with Barack Obama to say, `Yes, we can!'" Hillary Clinton 6/7/08
by feliks on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:43:46 PM EST

why don't you just hold off (2.00 / 0)

on the chastising until it actually happens.  MI and FL could be compromised before then


by ab03 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:45:49 PM EST

Re: Desperate for Victory (1.80 / 5)

Darlin, that's the most self-serving and delusional thing I've read today!

Stick a fork in her, and add the Florida and Michigan tallies if you like, even though it violates the rules, and Barack is still the certain nominee -- so keep dreamin!


by realcountrymusic on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:51:15 PM EST

Re: Desperate for Victory (2.00 / 1)

"stick a fork" is so vile and gross.

Did you read how the nasty tone of Obama supporters on his and other websites caused military people in North Carolina to vote for Hillary?


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:16:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate for Victory (none / 0)

It's a completely conventional expression that means "it's all over."

Taking it literally seems silly to me.


by realcountrymusic on Fri May 09, 2008 at 07:18:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

diaries like these are so scary (2.00 / 4)

prelude to "Hillary Supporters for McCain."  and even the Hillary supporters that won't go so far will just stand idly by and let it happen.  


by ab03 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:51:24 PM EST

and i even get the feeling that (1.50 / 2)

Bill Clinton is going to show solidarity with McCain.  


by ab03 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 02:52:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not so fast (2.00 / 3)

they booed her in West Virginia today.


by rf7777 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:13:26 PM EST

Re: Not so fast (2.00 / 3)

and you're boasting about the fact that Obama supporters boo a respected fellow Democrat and 2-term Senator?

What's wrong with you people?


TexasDarlin blog
by TexasDarlin on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:15:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not so fast (2.00 / 3)

Oh, come on, don't play like you're all outraged that people were booing a "respected fellow Democrat."  I've read a lot of your stuff, TD, and you seem to have few scruples about slamming "respected fellow Democrats" when you think (erroneously) that doing so will help your argument for your candidate.

Like there's only one "respected Democrat" in this race.  Honestly.


What is The October Protocol?
by Koan on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:13:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Not so fast (2.00 / 2)

Respected in the past tense. If she still had their respect, she wouldn't be getting booed, now would she? And looking down on people for booing someone they don't like stikes me as elitist and arrogent. If people don't like her, they have every right to boo her.

And how long has McCain been in the senate? I'm sure plenty of people still respect him. Are you saying we shouldn't boo him?

Your comment is empty and spiteful.


by Okamifujutsu on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:04:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate to Win (2.00 / 5)

is this diary for real? LOL.. it needs a massive snark tag attached to it because its the biggest joke that i've seen here for a while.


by soros on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:30:05 PM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (2.00 / 1)

I completely agree!!!


by nikkid on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:35:15 PM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (2.00 / 1)

Obama supporters wouldn't be so disrespectful of Clinton, I'm convinced, if they didn't harbor two reasonable fears: 1) Clinton doesn't believe that there is such a thing as a tainted victory (if she could get the DNC to give her all of MI's delegates she'd accept in a nanosecond); 2) many of Hillary's supporters don't think there is any way in which Obama can win legitimately.  


by IncognitoErgoSum on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:37:09 PM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (none / 0)

You are correct on both counts.


by Mostly on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:58:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate to Win (none / 0)

That last part amazes me. Here, on Taylor Marsh, Hillaryis44, and wherever else, there is this almost uniformity of belief that Obama CANNOT win a legitimate election,and if he wins the nomination it will be due to some combination of sexism, misogyny, liberal guilt, stupid black people, caucuses, stupid college kids, etc.

And yet he's won more states, votes and delegates. What in the holy hell could possibly be illegitimate about that? That's an election.

Sure, it sucks for HRC supporters that she was ill-served by Mark Penn, and her post Feb. 5 strategy was terrible. It sucks for her that Michigan and Florida broke the rules and lost their delegates. It sucks for her that she doesn't do well at caucuses. It sucks for her that Obama got the overwhelming support of young people, and that the media was perhaps nicer to Obama last fall than Clinton. It sucks for her that Obama is black and gets lots of black votes. It sucks for her that the Dems have proportional allocation, so she couldn't Win Cali and NY and then call it a day.

But all of the aforementioned things were outside of Obama's control. He didn't set up the system. Hell, he wasn't anybody when this system was set up, whereas the Clintons were the titular heads of the party and held enormous sway, not the mention the foregone conclusion that Hillary would run in 2008. He didn't make the rules. But he played by them, and more successfully than Clinton.

And yet, you hear all this shit about an illegitimate victory, and so they're gonna to stomp their feet, hold their breath, and vote for McCain if Obama's the nominee, despite the fact that he won fair and square, by the rules her allies set up years ago.

Seriously, this argument is just asinine. And yeah, I think the sheer illogic of it leads some Obama supporters to wonder if some, not all, but some of these dead-enders would feel the same way about Obama were his skin a little lighter. I know everyone will deny it, and I wouldn't accuse anyone in particular, but I mean, this "illegitimate" meme is bullshit.


by jbill on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:06:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

What's So Wrong a Little Desperation? (2.00 / 2)

I would take the diarist much more seriously if she acknowledged that the Clinton team is probably feeling a bit anxious right now, or that she herself is feeling a bit desperate for a change in fortunes, or that she has had a moment or two of doubt about Clinton's chances.

Instead, she casts Obama as the only one feeling nervous while Clinton is self-assured and confident. I hear all the time from Clinton's supporters that she is a person of great emotion, that she's human despite the attempts to paint her as cold automaton. Well, part of being human is feeling the occasional pang of insecurity and doubt. I'm quite certain that at some point in the past 48 hours, Clinton has asked herself if she can really win this thing and has considered the possibility that it's over.

That doesn't mean Hillary shouldn't soldier on, but I doubt she's as blind to her situation as the diarist seems to be.
 


by jdusek on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:39:18 PM EST

You are wrong Darlin' (2.00 / 2)

And don't forget..Superdelegate votes don't count for anything until the convention.

The super delegates have not voted and cannot vote until the convention.  They can give their endorsement and support but as we've seen, many have the loyalty of a snake and will change back to Hillary on a moments notice.  Of course they'd need a so-called reason, but there are months left until the convention and there is a minuscule possibility that someone in the press will actually look into the holy one's past.


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:39:20 PM EST

Of course that's it (2.00 / 1)

Why didn't I think of that? The whole MSM has been enchanted by Obama's elitist manchurian mantra. They haven't look into his past!! How stupid. How naive. How prejudiced!!

He must have walked into the same room as a member of the Velvet Underground at one point. Perhaps he even heard a crazy preacher on TV. And then of course, he probably ran an illicit drugs smuggling empire, but they haven't looked...

No, after the most intensive primary in a century, with a full scale onslaught from Team Clinton and the Republican, the media have ignored Obama's background. They haven't turned over every stone. They haven't scraped every barrel...

New Hampster. Wake up. The politics of sexual scandal and gaffe have had their day. There are no smoking bimbos. No pardons for felons. It's another candidate, another century, another millennium, and whatever bitterness you've internalised over this process, let it go before it poisons you.


by duende on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:47:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Too late (none / 0)


I didn't believe in god before the primaries and I still don't.
by NewHampster on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:57:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I'm sorry to hear that (none / 0)


by duende on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:01:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

my my (none / 0)

why so shy?  if anybody, ANYBODY, knows something about Obama's past, lets hear it.  I keep seeing veiled references to Obama not being a saint.  Well, let's hear what you got.  I'm all ears.  

At least then we can compare skeletons.


by ab03 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:38:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Denial (2.00 / 3)

isn't a river in Egypt.

Anger is the next step.

Let me have it...


by IowaMike on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:47:19 PM EST

Re: Denial (none / 0)

We're well into anger and bargaining, now.


by DeskHack on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:58:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

HIllary's already bargaining (none / 0)

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Politics/story ?id=4810932


I'm riding the Low Road Express. Join me at www.lowroadexpress.com
by LtWorf on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:10:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

It's time to move on (2.00 / 3)

Obama isn't desperate - he won.
The question is - what do you do now?
Take some time to chill out for a while, then come back when you've figured it out.
by SunWolf78 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:49:51 PM EST

I've heard that he would be, but... (none / 0)

how does he plan to declare victory?


by Rome890 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 03:55:33 PM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (2.00 / 1)

Let's review the facts first:

MI and FL voted to move up their primaries against the wishes of the DNC, which warned about taking away all of their delegates.

MI and FL went ahead, and the DNC called their bluff. MI and FL refused to reschedule, given that the race was to be over by Super Tuesday, and they wanted a greater role in determining the outcome. /IRONY

Before this vote occurred, both campaigns/candidates signed pledges that they would not campaign or participate in those states. Both candidates were on record that these contests wouldn't count for anything.

Obama chose to get his name off the Michigan ballot, along with Edwards and Biden, and someone else. Candidates could not remove their names in FL. (Kusinich failed to get off the Michigan ballot)

After the race seemed very close, the Clinton campaign became very interested in maximizing the results in FL, and both campaigns made some minor violations of the "no campaign rule."

Obama ran naitional cable ads that played in Florida (with SC's approval) and held a press availability there. Clinton also held a press conference (where she got the endorsement of Miami's mayor), and publicly stated that she would be in Florida the night of the vote, which was in the local papers the day of the election.

Since that time, Clinton has favored some results out of FL and MI, since they would likely benefit her. Obama has not. I'm not sure of how all the re-vote factors went down, but the general feeling I get is that Obama wanted to make sure that whatever happened was completely workable, and they couldn't find a perfect solution, especially on who would pay. I think.

Without FL and MI, Obama will have a pledged delegate majority on May 20th, the date of the politico story.

My thoughts:

Voters in these states weren't happy that they wouldn't get any delegates, but they were aware that no delegates would be allocated. Those states had the choice to postpone to get delegates, and they did not. The onus is on the state officials, which includes Democrats.

There is no question that WV and KY favor Clinton, but they have regardless. Poblano has shown that election results are most predictable based on prior election demographics, and the Obama campaign made early predictions that have been fairly accurate. The point is that WV and Y are fairly static - she will win big, but not be enough. He will get the majority.

FL and MI need to feel respected, so they should be seated at the convention. However, it will be a crime to count the votes fully as they are, because Obama couldn't run a campaign as he could in other states. Remember, before Super Tuesday, he was behind EVERYWHERE. The lack of campaigning favored Clinton as well, since she had more name recognition.

At this point, Obama will have a delegates majority that cannot be surmounted, even with FL and MI. He should move for those votes to be counted at 50% delegate weight (like the GOP), which will keep the advantage (100% will too), and FL and MI should get great respect at the convention so that voters see that the party is sorry for all the drama. How's that?


by Falsehood on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:03:42 PM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (2.00 / 2)

Talk about desperate to win. I'm curious   (maybe its obvious) that there is no reaction in the site to Hillary's comment to USA Today and the headline "Hillary Boasts of White Voter Support" .

Divisive politics of race in the Democratic pary? I support Obama, but I have always had respect for Hillary.

.  The statements made are really so pathetic, desperate, divisive, and just plain stupid.
How any superdelegate could hear this comment and agree she is their best choice, is beyond me.
That we be a vote for the belief that America is racist at its heart and not ready for a non-white president. That there is no hope to rise above it and the way to win is to exploit that prejudice rather than rise above it.
Is that the statement we want our party to make?

About our country, about our intelligence. Blacks will vote for blacks, whites will vote for whites? Pander to the ethnic majority, that is the only way to win?
This statement should show superdelegates clearly who is the nominee who will bring the country together.
Clinton, you are damning the rest of your career. Just sad.


by eyeswideopen2008 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:17:39 PM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (none / 0)

COMPROMISE HILLARY COMPROMISE!


by Rumproast on Thu May 08, 2008 at 04:38:06 PM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (2.00 / 1)

No convenient is agreeing to not count Florida and Michigan until you decided it would help you

HRC is on record REPEATEDLY stating MI and FL would not count

ARROGANT is ddsimissing every contest you lose; finding fault with every rule you do not agree with and decding what conetst mean something and what contests do not


by kmwray on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:11:46 PM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (2.00 / 1)

You know what, this is so incredibly dumb.

Obama has been so respectful to Clinton, and he has NEVER asked her to drop out. NEVER.

If when he wins Oregon he reaches the current threshold AGREED UPON BY BOTH SIDES, then what is the big deal in declaring that he has won the majority of pledged delegates?


by RussTC3 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:14:17 PM EST

the rec list (1.66 / 3)

here has become so one dimensional.

you should take a vacation....and jerome should pay for it.


by citizendave on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:24:34 PM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (2.00 / 1)

I think the only thing that some of you would find "respectful" is for him to drop out and anoint Clinton the victor.  


by rfahey22 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:32:50 PM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (2.00 / 2)

I'm not sure why your hopeless diaries keep getting recommended. Moreover, I'm not sure why anyone would throw money away by contributing to this failed campaign. Especially people who have less than $109 million. Money contributed now just will go to reiumburse HRC. Are you sure that is not the real reason she is still pushing this division? (To persuade monetarily poor people to ensure that she remains obscenely rich?)


by applecrispbetty on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:35:24 PM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (2.00 / 1)

And your money is going towards making the Obamas rich.    Everyone who gets into the WH becomes wealthy afterwards, or even more wealthy if they were already rich.  The Obamas, given the chance, will cash in just as much as the next person, and will enjoy doing it.  So your money now is helping them to get to a position where they can be become, your word, "obscenely" rich.

Not only that, but what will your donation to Obama get you, if he manages to make it to the WH?  Universal and affordable healthcare?  Doubt it - he won't be fighting for it like Hillary will.  Securing Social Security for the retirement of "monetarily poor people," as you call them?  Unlikely - he's already signaled to Rethugs that he is willing to consider partial privatization, which will be the beginning of the end of the one program that has done more than anything else to decrease poverty in the U.S.


by Montague on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:33:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate to Win (none / 0)

Hillary had her chance at universal health care in 1992 and failed miserably, refusing to compromise. Why think she would be any more successful in 2008? Obama has more of a sense of reality concerning how to get things done. Ideas are not enough.


by applecrispbetty on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:53:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate to Win (none / 0)

In the blogosphere:

"For her to wait until June is a nightmare that may well guarantee that not only my guy, but dozens and dozens of other challengers will come up badly short of their goals for the 2nd Quarter. And my candidate is in the very top level of targeted races."

"We need her to drop out now, not only for the sake of our real Presidential nominee winning in November, but so that the rest of us can finally have a fighting chance with donors."


by applecrispbetty on Fri May 09, 2008 at 09:06:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]

You cannot be serious. (2.00 / 2)

Wow.. just wow... Obama is scared?  Honestly, I don't know what reality you are living in.  He is trying to end this unprecedentedly long primary season so he can focus on McCain.  Hell, he's already starting to shift his focus away from Clinton.  There is a reason the media has declared Obama the winner.  As Todd put it nicely the other day, there is no conceivable way for Clinton to take this nomination.  This extended fight has had some good points, like increasing voter registration in many states.  Unfortunately though, for the last three weeks it has gotten very ugly, and even though Obama has weathered this very well, it still doesn't help to have another Dem railing on you.  By May 20th nearly all states will be in and those that won't have, what, a grand total of 6 electoral votes between them and they nearly always go red anyway.  This primary might as well be over, and Obama is just trying to move his focus away from slamming another Dem to attacking McCain (which is what we should ALL be focusing on.)  


Vote Change in '08!
by iowa dem on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:37:01 PM EST

Ahhhh (2.00 / 1)

You are so adorable when you are angry.    


by optimusprime on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:46:48 PM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (1.50 / 2)

A big victory predicted for HRC!!!!! Horray!! Horray!!!!! Double digits, as much as 40% in the Polls. I want to know what the Pollsters are toking on. Prediction: Double digit victory in Pa. 9%win  Prediction: Double digit victory in Indiana 2% win. This candidate once she gets out with the people and starts talking, she loses points. Her best bet and new campaign slogan should be: Hillary, Keep the Myth Alive"


John McCain: Everyones nowhere man
by johnny sexton on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:54:37 PM EST

desperate to win (none / 0)

"desperate to win"

submitted without further comment


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:28:23 PM EST

$$Bomb: Donate 12 million to Hillary by Saturday! (2.00 / 1)

I think mydd has enough passionate Hillsters to come up with 12 big ones by the end of night. C'mon Alegre! C'mon Texas D! C'mon Zenful! C'mon ZC! You guys haven't hit $2300 yet ... put your pocketbooks where your prose is.

And I'm talking to you trolls too. C'mon Catfish! If Hillary can't go on, where are you gonna troll? Keep the flame burning!

Here's the HRC donation website:

https://contribute.hillaryclinton.com/ma y6b.html

GO!


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Thu May 08, 2008 at 06:36:28 PM EST

She got my donation yesterday (2.00 / 2)

And I plan to put in a couple more before it's over.


by internetstar on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:12:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate to Win (none / 0)

There is no more democracy in America.
The corporations that own the news shows dictate who our highest elected officials will be.
They probably won't care whether the winner is a man who should be in assisted living, for his own safety, or a greenhorn without much ethical backbone.
by internetstar on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:10:54 PM EST

The really desperate candidate (2.00 / 1)

is the one who has poured $11.4 million dollars of her own money into an election that she has to pay back by the convention or kiss goodbye forever. How many here think that the Clintons are going to eat 10% of their fortune, please raise your hands? What, no takers? Me neither. She has to stay in this race until the convention, then hope that she can somehow twist enough arms or make enough backroom deals to disenfranchise the African American, young voters, independents and others that came to the process through the work of the Obama campaign...or limp to the finish begging for handouts to cover her debt to herself then put off paying her vendors until, oh, I don't know, the next decade.

If campaigns are any measure of how a candidate would run this nation, the Clinton campaign should scare the shit out of us all.

http://www.slate.com/id/2190880/


by bookish on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:43:57 PM EST

The last person to BULLY his way into office (none / 0)

was the biggest disaster the country has ever known.

The person that bullied his was into power before that liked to wear brown shirts. I will wait and see what happens. Obama has not done that crazy thing yet so I won't attack him for it, I hope the diarist has it wrong....for all or our sakes.


by mmorang on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:44:05 PM EST

Think about it, Obama had the nerve to imply (2.00 / 1)

(strongly) that the former Democratic President and the former First Lady and now Senator are racists or race-bators. Amazing!

If anyone out there knows the Clinton's I would be mad as hell and I would make the biggest issue of this.

I have seen the tapes and I know how it all went down as many of you do too. The Clinton's were tarred with the racist label by team-Obama with Obama's approval. Obama jumped in on the fun himself.

If Obama is capable of that what else is he capable of?

He got to be president of the Harvard Law Review by pitting the Conservatives against the progressives. He got to be a state senator by suing his friend to have her name taken off the ballot. He got to be Senator from IL by running against a certifiable nut who didn't even live in the state.

Now he wins the Democratic nomination without the votes counting in Florida and Michigan and by tarring good and fine Democrats with the racists label. Yes, because of Obama's decision, many blacks believe, incorrectly, that the Clinton's are racists. This behaviour is unforgivable!!!!!!


by mmorang on Thu May 08, 2008 at 07:52:54 PM EST

Re: Think about it, Obama had the nerve to imply (2.00 / 1)

Yeah, right . . . so, what you're saying is: the millions of black people who voted for Obama, who switched their support from Hillary to Obama, did so because:

1) Obama told them to

2) because black people (and you imply "all" here) are too dumb to think for themselves

Who is being "racist" here?

Historians and political analysts will be writing volumes for years about how race was made to mean in this election (and what it says about us as a country). We had the perfect example today with Hillary's comments about "white" americans.


by DrPolitics on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:15:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Think about it, Obama had the nerve to imply (none / 0)

You are making things up and using a strawman argument.

I didn't say ALL blacks as I know Obama is ONLY getting up to 93% of their vote. So its not all but it is a significant percentage.

I never said that they voted for Obama because he told them to. I said that he played the race card on them, which he most certainly did. The Clinton's didn't play the race card on themselves.

Blacks didn't magically vote for Obama at a percentage in some cases as 93% by accident or because of their analysis of the issues. Clinton and Obama are almost identical twins as far as the issues. Obama is "relatively" inexperienced at the national level. He doesn't have a good chance to win, so why would 93% of them vote for Obama? Because he's black and they are black and there hasn't been that many blacks seen as viable to win the presidency. Completely understandable.

But when you have to resort to race-bating, which is what he did, its not too nice. It's actually downright discusting.

To answer your rude question: "Who's being racist here?" I don't think anyone is being racist. But apparantly you see racism. Funny how you feel so comfortable throwing around the "racism" label at people you don't know.

Good luck in November!!!


by mmorang on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:38:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Think about it, Obama had the nerve to imply (2.00 / 1)

Clinton is the one who keeps tauting "WHITE" working Americans: White this White that.  She's the one playing the race card.

There are plenty of white folks who voted for Obama, without these "white" votes, he wouldn't be where he is today. Think about it Mmorang.  

And give me one example where Obama's camp actually called the Clinton's racist?!!


by hienmango on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:34:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

If anyone knows the Clintons tell them (2.00 / 1)

they should DEMAND an apology from Obama for implying they are racist.

Yes, Obama cynically used the race card against both Clintons for political gain. There is no "Ifs", "ands" or "buts" about it.

It's 2008 and I don't think that strategy should be tollerated and I don't think anyone employing that strategy is worthy of the presidency.


by mmorang on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:05:47 PM EST

Re: If anyone knows the Clintons tell them (none / 0)

You know what? Obama did way more damage to himself with that than he ever did to the Clintons. It's one of the reasons why he's going to lose in Nov. McCain can wallop him over the head any time he screams "racism" talking about how Obama thinks the "first black president" is a racist. LOL!


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:56:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

was that a joke? (2.00 / 1)

A 40% lead? According to an unspecified poll on no quarter? Sounds like a solid source. Way to not make yourself look desperate :)


by Djo on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:09:40 PM EST

The one desperate.... (1.50 / 2)

is Hillary Clinton.

Come on.  This is over.  Has been since Wisconsin.

Why did she let Obama run up the delegate totals and did not compete?  Answer:  did not plan past 2/5 and did not have any MONEY.

No one is going to overturn any states that voted.  And Michigan offered, today a deal with HRC having a 10 delegate lead and she said NO.

These states got to deal with not following the rules, whether we like it or not.

Let us move on, it is general election time.

Oh, and no WV nor KY do not have enough delegates or popular vote to overturn Obama.


by tracey webb on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:16:11 PM EST

Oh and Hillary's debt... (1.50 / 2)

don't expect Obama to pick it up.  Seems like it is well over 20M and some state that is being NICE.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/08 /stephanopoulos-clinton-de_n_100790.html

Many Hillary supporters are going to cry.  May 20th she should be done.

And Howard Wolfson is shopping a book, per Keith Olbermann.  Meaning, you don't shop a book unless a campaign is about to fold.  FYI


by tracey webb on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:19:40 PM EST

Re: Oh and Hillary's debt... (none / 0)

Maybe so.  

But we won't be the ones crying in November.  


by bellarose on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:30:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh and Hillary's debt... (2.00 / 1)

McCain will be crying.


by hienmango on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:28:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Oh and Hillary's debt... (2.00 / 1)

But we won't be the ones crying in November.  

Right, that won't be until sometime in 2009 when President McCain's judicial appointees outlaw abortion and various other women's rights.

Unless, of course, you vote for Obama, who will use the power of the pulpit to gain support for, and then sign into law, any and every bill that Senator Clinton puts through. And who will appointment brilliant and fair justices to the Supreme Court.


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:18:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Desperate to Win (none / 0)

HEy HRC supporters! Listen up! Loretta said it best lets keep it goin FAITH!

I beg you pardon I never promised you a rose garden
Along with the sunshine there's gotta be a little rain sometimes
When you take you gotta give so live and let live or let go
I beg you pardon I never promised you a rose garden

I could promise you things like big diamond rings
But you don't find roses growin' on stalks of clover so you'd better think it over
When it's sweet talking you could make it come true
I would give you the world right now on a silver platter but what would it matter
So smile for a while and let's be jolly love shouldn't be so melancholy
Come along and share the good times while we can
I beg you pardon I never promised you a rose garden
[ steel ]
I could sing you a tune and promise you the moon
But if that's what it takes to hold you I'd just as soon let you go
But there's one thing I want you to know
You better look before you leap still water runs deep
And there won't always be someone there to pull you out
And you know what I'm talking about
So smile for a while and let's be jolly...
I beg you pardon I never promised you a rose garden


by grego101 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 09:30:55 PM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (1.00 / 1)

I'm disgusted with the Dems and their backroom manipulation. They want change?
Hillary and all of us Clinton supporters need to dump the Dems right now. Hillary should run with Cynthia McKinney of the Green party. The two of them would wipe out both Obama and McCain.
by Swing Vote on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:54:22 PM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (none / 0)

What backroom manipulation? Clinton didn't win enough votes and didn't win enough delegates.


We care about politics because we know politics matters for people's lives and opportunities.
by politicsmatters on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:58:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama has drank Hillary's Milkshake (2.00 / 1)

He sucked her dry $, momentum, and number of remaining delegates.  Imagine - You see if Hillary has a milkshake and Obama has a milkshake and Obama has a straw, his straw reaches across and SLURRRPPSS


by optimusprime on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:54:44 PM EST

aside from being unconstructive ... (none / 0)

... and offensive to our fellow anti-McCain activists ...

it should be "has drunk"


McCain housing policy shaped by lobbyist.
by obsessed on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:12:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: aside from being unconstructive ... (none / 0)

sounds like someone has sucked the humor out of you


by optimusprime on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:19:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

offended by this "enfranchisement" bs (2.00 / 1)

OK, you can't possibly believe your own spin here... Obama's the desperate one?  And please explain to me your definition of "enfranchising" Michigan voters when HRC's plan would disenfranchise my whole Michigan family and many friends.... How is that "enfranchising?" ANd remember that Obama accepted the only realistic and practical solutions that would have allowed my family and friends votes to count, but those fair solutions were thrown out by HRC because they would have instantly killed her campaign. Instead her "enfranchisement" plans had bizarre rules that would have explicitly disenfranchised my family. Why should they get to vote? The only FAIR solution is to not seat them, as Hillary said before she NEEDED the captive votes.


by luckymortal on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:18:38 PM EST

Refocus (2.00 / 1)

myDD should start focusing on McCain, for example, Cindy McCain says she won't disclose her taxes.   What does she have to hide?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/08 /cindy-mccain-i-will-never_n_100769.html


by hienmango on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:24:38 PM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (none / 0)

did you get the email?


"Democracy! Bah! When I hear that word I reach for my feather Boa!" -- Allen Ginsberg
by canadian gal on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:23:03 AM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (none / 0)

I think I get why the diarist feels so...

"Desperate to Win
May 20th...Barack Obama plans to declare victory...

Senator Obama...enfranchising..voters who went to the polls... Of course he knows...more pledged delegates.

Obama premature...delegate lead..by June 3rd... Rules Committee...irrelevant?

There is no possiblity...Hillary Clinton will likely win...

double-digit margins -- Barack Obama's pledged delegate lead..just saw...Clinton..mad cries this week...appears that Clinton..would be devastating for...Superdelegates, and everyone else in America...

he can win enough Democratic votes in November to beat John McCain... and... skeletons.

I can't really...let..Hillary..declare...TAKE IT TO THE CONVENTION, BABY."

... no one is entitled to...victory. Right, Senator...?"

I think Alegre's was a tad more coloful, but this diary is good also.


McCainuire, The Wrath Of Not Enough Naps.
by catilinus on Fri May 09, 2008 at 01:28:35 AM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (none / 0)

"There is no possiblity that Obama will earn enough pledged delegates, not even close, by May 20th.  In fact, since Hillary Clinton will likely win West Virginia (on May 13th) and Kentucky (on May 20th) by huge double-digit margins -- Barack Obama's pledged delegate lead will have shrunk by May 20th."

You sound very confident, but I'll take you on.
I'll bet you that he will gain a majority on may 20-th and that the Rules commision will indeed be irrelevant.


by hebi on Fri May 09, 2008 at 02:26:36 AM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (none / 0)

He's afraid he's really not going to win. At least that's how he's acting.

Really, he's already losing the general election vs. McCain and everytime he tries to shove himself down the throats of voters like this it makes it less and less likely that Hillary voters are going to vote for him.


No longer a Democrat, now proudly an independent voter!
by Ga6thDem on Fri May 09, 2008 at 06:52:16 AM EST

It's over. (2.00 / 1)

Clinton lost to a better candidate. She voted for Bush's war, and didn't know how to come back from that (I suspect because she still thinks she did the right thing). You can spin and talk about John Kerry and Obama voting for funding and scream "That's not fair!" till you're blue in the face.

It's over.

She lost.

Grow up.

Deal with it.

Move on.

It's not about her. It's not about you. There are bigger things at stake.


by BlueinColorado on Fri May 09, 2008 at 08:31:07 AM EST

Re: Desperate to Win (none / 0)

Mr. Obama is not afraid of anything, including:
1. The Clinton machine, which he beat (note the
past tense, Darlin).

  1. People who do not like non-white people.
  2. People who mistakenly think he is a Muslim.
  3. People who have said provocative, untrue, and/or double-standardish things about him to which he has not responded in kind.
  4. The McCain machine, which he will beat.
  5. The almost impossible odds he encountered at the beginning (of life and of his candidacy).

I think you are discounting one of his best qualities, namely, courage to get up each day and continue onwards and upwards in a positive manner. This quality attracts a lot of his followers. (I wish I was that courageous.)


by applecrispbetty on Fri May 09, 2008 at 10:22:13 AM EST


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