Black Block Voting Wins North Carolina for Obama

Barack Obama won the black vote in North Caralina 91-6%. Hillary Clinton won the white vote 59-36%.

If the black preference for Obama had fallen in the same range as the white preference for Clinton, she would have picked up the difference between 6% and 36%, which would have amounted to 30% of the black vote.

Since African-American voters comprised 33% of the vote in the North Carolina Democratic primary, Hillary Clinton would have received another 30% x 33%, or 10% of the total vote, and Obama would have received 10% less.

Instead of 56-40% in favor of Obama, the vote would have been 50-46% in favor of Clinton, and Hillary Clinton would have won the North Carolina Democratic primary.

In Indiana the story is more or less the same, with Obama winning the black vote 92-8%, and Clinton winning the white vote 60-40%. A split of the black vote similar to the split in the white vote would have given Clinton an additional 32% of the black vote, which comprised 15% of the voters, and this would have given her another 5% of the toal vote.

Instead of winning 51-49%, Hillary Clinton would have won by 56-44%, which is just the sort of double-digit win that the army of pundits declared she needed to remain "competitive."

In the Ohio Democratic primary, the color splits were 89-11% and 61-38%, and similar splits would have given Ms. Clinton another 27% of the black vote, which comprised 19% of the total vote. This would have added another 5% of the total vote to Hillary Clinton's side of the ledger, subtracted the same from Obama, and instead of winning Ohio by 54-44%, Ms. Clinton would have won the state 59-39%, a 20 point blow-out.

In many states where Mr. Obama won by large margins, similar splits among black and white voters would have reduced the margin to single digits, and eliminated most of the difference in pledged delegates.

Mr. Obama won in Maryland, for example, where black voters comprised 37% of the total, and split 84-15% for Obama. Clinton won the white vote 52-42%. Similar splits would have given Clinton another 27% of the black vote, or a little more than 9% of the total vote, and Mr. Obama's 61-36% blow-out victory would have turned into 52-45%. It would still be a win, but instead of picking up 60% of Maryland's 70 delegates, or 42 delegates, while Clinton claimed 28, for a 14-delegate difference, the delegates would have been split 37-33, for a 4-delegate difference.

In Pennsylvania, the white vote split 62-38% for Clinton, while the black vote split 89-11% for Obama. Similar splits would have given Ms. Clinton another 27% of the black vote, which was 15% of the total vote. This would have meant an addition 4% of the total vote, and Ms. Clinton would have won Pennsylvania by 58.6% to 41.4% for Mr. Obama, instead of 54.6% to 45.4%. In the actual vote, Pennsylvania's 158 delegates were split 85-73 for Clinton, but with similar splits among black and white voters, the delegates would have split 93-65 for Clinton.

Mr. Obama won the black vote in Louisiana by 86-13% and Ms. Clinton won the white vote 58-30%. The black vote comprised 48% of the total, and similar color splits would have given Ms. Clinton an additional 17% of the black vote, which would have amounted to 8% of the total vote. Mr. Obama would still have won Louisiana with 49.4% to 43.6% for Hillary Clinton, instead of 57.4% to 35.6%, but instead of picking up 12 delegates in a 34-22 split, Mr. Obama would have received only 30 pledged delegates to 26 for Ms. Clinton.

Although the black-white vote splits followed a different pattern in a few states like Vermont and New Mexico, nationwide Mr. Obama has won 81.7% of the black vote, while Ms. Clinton wins 54% of the white vote. Polarization of black voters has increased since John Edwards dropped out of the race, with Mr. Obama typically winning around 90% of the black vote since the beginning of March.

In the last 10 primaries, Mr. Obama has won by large majorities and lost by narrow margins, but without polarized black block voting in North Carolina, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Louisiana, Indiana, Maryland, and elsewhere, the picture would be exactly reversed, with Hillary Clinton winning by large margins and losing narrow majorities, and Mr. Obama's lead in delegates would be small or non-existent.



Display:


Yep (2.00 / 9)


   if black people hadn't have voted...Hillary would've won.

  but guess what. Black people did vote. And their votes count just as much as anyone else's.


by southernman on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:35:19 PM EST

Re: Yep (2.00 / 1)

Actually, they count more.  The Presidency cannot be won by a Democrat without the AA vote turning up with monolithic percentages.  Blacks therefore wield tremendous power in the Democratic Party, over and above their actual numbers.

Republicans have given up on this constituency entirely, because they can somehow win the Presidency without it.


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:43:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (1.00 / 3)


   Very true, they have. And we can't win without it...as Hillary Clinton is now finding out. Her dismissve attitude of the African American constituency was a big mistake.
by southernman on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:44:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (2.00 / 1)

It is a sad commentary on how far we have NOT come in racial reconciliation that a statement such as that can be made about a Clinton, and be widely believed.


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:48:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (2.00 / 0)


  She didn't punish people who made derogatory comments about Obama and the African American constituency.

  She made her own blunder with the MLK comments.

  Mistakes happen, but it's clear she was not interested in winning over their votes.

  For whatever reason, that's the case. If that was strategy, then it was a serious mistake.


by southernman on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:52:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (2.00 / 1)

"...not interested in winning over their votes."  How sadly delusional.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:53:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (2.00 / 0)

Well, either she didn't seek their votes, or she did such a terrible job at seeking their votes that practically no African-Americans voted for her. Which is it?


by amiches on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:00:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (2.00 / 1)

Neither, obviously.  False choice.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:02:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (1.00 / 0)

What blunder? What she said was perfectly true.


by handsomegent on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:33:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (none / 0)

What I think happened is that she knew they would go for Obama so she did what she has always done in this election - she decided they didn't count. Just the way states that went for obama didn't count, etc. I think that has been her general attitude and it has been her downfall.


by Becky G on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:09:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (2.00 / 1)

dismissive attitude? hardly. more like contrived race baiting from the BO campaign.


by swissffun on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:18:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

how to fix Dem Party? (2.00 / 1)

Are you saying Blacks have too much influence in the Dem Party?

In what way?

How should this problem be fixed?


Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:04:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (1.00 / 7)

actually they should count less because they'll always vote for the Democrat. They are not a swing vote. We need to win other groups as well.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:10:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"They should count less"? (2.00 / 10)

How exactly would you go about that?  Maybe a straight 3/5 of a vote for each?


by Progressive Witness on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:20:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "They should count less"? (2.00 / 2)

Ouch. That's gonna leave a mark.


by Angry White Democrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:22:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "They should count less"? (2.00 / 7)

Well, my folk were Abolitionists back in the day.  That sort of talk still gets us a mite tetchy.


by Progressive Witness on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:27:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "They should count less"? (2.00 / 1)

There's no good reason to give that a 1.


ооо
by Mumphrey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:03:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: "They should count less"? (none / 0)

I suspect it's a mistake; Lord Hadrian gave me a 2 on the comment above it.

On the other hand, it gets receiving my first 1 out of the way....  :-)


by Progressive Witness on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:11:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (2.00 / 4)

"actually they should count less . . . ."

Does 3/5s sound about right to you?


John McCain vows to overturn Roe
by soccerandpolitics on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:45:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (2.00 / 1)

Dammit.  I think I'm being clever and someone already beat me to it.  Guess I should read comments before posting.


John McCain vows to overturn Roe
by soccerandpolitics on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:46:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Pfft. Great minds think alike. :-) (none / 0)


by Progressive Witness on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:12:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

This is one of the worst things (2.00 / 1)

I've seen here.
And I've seen a whole lot of nasty shit.
All the racists left the Democratic Party about 40 years ago--or so I thought. Go join the Republican Party. You'll fit right in.
ооо
by Mumphrey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:48:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (2.00 / 1)

That's not the point.  Why is this obvious "group think" mentality never even questioned by the press. If 92% of any ethnic group had voted consistently one way it would be a phenom studied for years by sociologists. But for some reason it's taboo big time to even mention this.


by handsomegent on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:07:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (1.50 / 2)

but anything black people do is all right and good. While they somewhat cover Bush/Cheney/Rummy, thye give Candi Rice and Colin Powell completely free ride. Its race card playing extortionists like Sharpton and Jackson who make the media do this


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:11:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (2.00 / 1)

Maybe we should question the votes of Seniors too, then... They go to Clinton 3-1 or so, and they're not even going to be around for that much longer!  Clearly, we should lead an investigation as to why this group of voters thinks they can wield so much power versus the rest of the electorate who will likely outlive them!

Sheesh.  All the votes count, even ones that are not necessarily related to the issues (and to be honest, given the state of the primary, the issues are probably very secondary to everything else now anyway), and even, unfortunately, the "strategic" ones made by opponents.

Clinton was actually winning blacks until after IA.  It was probably likely that she was going to lose them after that, but to lose them over 90% is unbelievable.  Even in South Carolina she won nearly 20%, and that was with Edwards still in the race.  If she had managed to keep 20% of them in the rest of the primaries, her situation may have looked a lot different today.


by leshrac55 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:20:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (2.00 / 1)

3 to 1 is not 92% the last time I checked.


by handsomegent on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:34:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Yep (2.00 / 3)

Actually, black voters routinely vote 92% Democratic in general elections, and have for decades now. Did you complain every time that happened?


by Angry White Democrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:25:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Lyndon Johnson stealing elections again. (2.00 / 1)

Martin Luther King couldn't steal North Carolina for Obama, it took a President to sign the Voting Rights Act.




Democratic Candidate, US Senate, Wisconsin 2012
by benmasel on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:32:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Block Voting Wins NC for Obama (2.00 / 2)

If white people voted for Barack the same way blacks do...ah...kind of a circular argument, don't you think?


No candidacy is more important than the right to vote.
by hornplayer on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:37:43 PM EST

Re: Black Block Voting Wins NC for Obama (none / 0)

What a fantastic point.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:58:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Block Voting Wins NC for Obama (2.00 / 2)

It's factually true but I'm not sure what the implications are.

I do know that in the general election, winning 95% of the Black Vote (approx 11% of electorate) and losing the everybody else vote 65%/35% is losing recipe.  


2004 swing state margins: PA-2%, OH-2%, IA-1%, WI-0.5%, MI-3%, FL-5%, NM-1%; Alienating 50% of the party is a luxury we can't afford.
by BPK80 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:38:16 PM EST

Re: Black Block Voting Wins NC for Obama (none / 0)

Then it's a good thing Obama won't be losing everyone else 65-35:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/134254?tid=re latedcl


by Angry White Democrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:41:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Block Voting Wins NC for Obama (2.00 / 2)

It was all over in SC, you can see now.  The AA community watched Iowa closely to see if Obama was viable among whites.  Seeing that he was, the end was written.  The AA community has handed Obama the nomination, in fact gave it to him in January.  Everything else has just been bean counting.

I wonder if his campaign knew this outcome all along.  The AA vote has been predictably monolithic for generations, but in the GE, not the primaries (that 90% AA support is what you used to see in November, not March and April).  It would seem that the BHO campaign rightly figured that the monolith would turn out in the primary if a credible AA candidate was presented.


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:38:48 PM EST

Re: Black Block Voting Wins NC for Obama (2.00 / 1)

Too bad this "credible" black candidate won't go beyond the primaries.  Bad decision on their part, IMHO.


by avrdream on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:48:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Block Voting Wins NC for Obama (2.00 / 1)

it is out of our hands now.  Forward we go to the scaffold, bearing the banner of Obama.  Pray we prevail against the Republicans.


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:52:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Block Voting Wins NC for Obama (none / 0)

Excussssssssse me, but I am a white liberal woman who lives in the panhandle of Florida, and there are lots of latte drinkers here where I live.  


by Spanky on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:07:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Block Voting Wins NC for Obama (none / 0)

You seem fairly reasonable in your support of Clinton.  I understand that the republicans would have used cultural/race/wedge issues against Obama no matter what.  But don't you think Clinton's bashing of Obama on cultural issues was wrong by the simple fact that it has severely divided the democratic party.  I think its important to figure how many democrats will not vote for Obama on the basis that the attacks (from both sides) came from within the democratic party.  And if you think that if the Obama camp knew that the AA vote was their path to victory, then did the Clinton camp know to use this AA advantage against Obama because it was Hillary's only chance of winning?


by reggie23 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:07:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Block Voting Wins NC for Obama (2.00 / 1)

It's also wrong because it's wrong, whatever the results may have been.


ооо
by Mumphrey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:05:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Block Voting Wins NC for Obama (2.00 / 1)

No need to tell me.  I believe the Clinton campaign went way over the line.  


by reggie23 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:17:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

when HRC was attacked in ways that were (2.00 / 1)

sexist, I suspect it increased her support among women.

Is it possible that African-Americans perceived the attacks on Obama as racist?

Blacks voting for Obama in solid numbers was predictable. This is not surprising. HRC carried "White" women over 50.

But attacks on Obama--attacks perceived by Blacks as racist--galvanized Black voters to vote overwhelmingly for Obama.

As someone who preferred Obama, my interpretation is that attacks by HRC surrogates were deliberately racially polarizing. But the cost of HRC pealing away "Whites" in PA was losing Blacks in the remaining states. She made a judgment that the tradeoff was worth it.


Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:01:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

And, this is a problem because???? (2.00 / 2)

Jacob, there seems to be a slight tinge to your comments, but I won't go there.

But, the fact is, Bill Clinton won the presidency because of the black vote?

The black vote is THE most reliable vote for the last 50 years in the democratic party.

And, God bless them if 100% of them want to vote for Barack Obama, I have no problem with that?

Do you?


"Well the danger on the rocks is surely past... Still I remain tied to the mast"...Don Fagen, Poet and Piano Player
by WashStateBlue on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:43:11 PM EST

Re: And, this is a problem because???? (2.00 / 1)

If Hillary Clinton was winning 90% of women, including black women, in the Dem primaries, what would you make of that?  How would we interpret that outcome?


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:44:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And, this is a problem because???? (2.00 / 1)

"If Hillary Clinton was winning 90% of women, including black women, in the Dem primaries, what would you make of that?  How would we interpret that outcome?"

That she would be the Nominee?

That's how I would interpret it?

But, that is not what happened.

Look, let's get real. The poster is STILL trying to say "obama is the black candidate"...

It's been tread and re-tread here Over and over and Over...

Well, a bunch of us Honkies from out here in Latte-Software Airplane land vote for him as well?

Like about 2-1?

What does THAT mean?


"Well the danger on the rocks is surely past... Still I remain tied to the mast"...Don Fagen, Poet and Piano Player
by WashStateBlue on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:49:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And, this is a problem because???? (2.00 / 1)

If she was winning 90% of women it would indicate she had huge support across the board and would be the nominee already.

Stop trying to insinuate stuff about African-Americans.


by Skaje on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:53:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And, this is a problem because???? (2.00 / 2)

I am African American.  His margins with my community disturbs me, because it is plainly about something other than his policy positions.


No politician ever lost an election because he underestimated the intelligence of the American public. - PT Barnum, paraphrased...
by jarhead5536 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:56:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And, this is a problem because???? (2.00 / 2)

Jarhead, I have seen your post before, and I know you are African American.

Someone commented below, about JFK?

Well, being Irish Catholic, I have to tell you, it was pretty much across the board for him with the community I grew up in?

He turned out to be quite a good president, in spite of the fact perhaps my parents voted for him mainly out of pride?


"Well the danger on the rocks is surely past... Still I remain tied to the mast"...Don Fagen, Poet and Piano Player
by WashStateBlue on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:00:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And, this is a problem because???? (2.00 / 3)

I am sorry you feel that way.  Rural Appalachian voters went 90% for Clinton in several counties in Virginia, Ohio, Tennessee, and Indiana.  Does that disturb you?

Here's a thought.  Maybe certain blocks of voters are initially drawn to one candidate because they feel like they have something in common, and as time goes on they grow to like their policy positions as well.  It's not just ethnic, it can be religious (Romney got 90% in Utah), and it can be cultural (Huckabee cleaned up in the Southern primaries).

That does not delegitimize the results.  It does not mean those entire communities are ignoring policy positions and only voting on race, or religion, or region.

And it does not mean those people will not vote for the other candidate in a general election.


by Skaje on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:06:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And, this is a problem because???? (2.00 / 1)

I'm actually surprised she didn't win more of the female vote. I think a big part of the difference was the youth vote - male or female, it always went to Obama.


www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com
by LandStander on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:00:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: And, this is a problem because???? (2.00 / 1)

How about if Hillary had won 92% of Latinos? I bet there'd be a lot of coverage about that.


by handsomegent on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:09:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Block Voting Wins North Carolina for Oba (2.00 / 8)

good god you people are hitting on George Wallace territory now

shut the fuck up and join the republican party


Continue the discussion: http://westernfieldsreport.blogspot.com
by SheriffChris on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:43:56 PM EST

Re: Black Block Voting Wins NC for Obama (2.00 / 5)

So...your point is what exactly?  The white vote is more important than the total vote?

Obama isn't just campaigning for the black voters, he's campaigning for ALL voters, which he is winning.

The sentiment behind your diary is disturbing.


by Skaje on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:46:11 PM EST

Re: Black Block Voting Wins North Carolina for Oba (2.00 / 4)

Do you suppose people wrung their hands over the fact that Kennedy got all the Irish Catholics?  My guess is no.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:52:50 PM EST

how should Dems fix primaries (2.00 / 7)

to avoid the problem of Blacks tipping the election away from the candidate picked by "Whites"?


Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:53:19 PM EST

Re: how should Dems fix primaries (2.00 / 1)

Ouch....

I have to remember that one, next time someone brings up this stupid argument.


"Well the danger on the rocks is surely past... Still I remain tied to the mast"...Don Fagen, Poet and Piano Player
by WashStateBlue on Wed May 07, 2008 at 06:55:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how should Dems fix primaries (2.00 / 1)

Please, Carl.  There are better ways of addressing this issue than by constantly stirring the pot.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:03:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how should Dems fix primaries (2.00 / 2)

How has ignoring the racism worked so far?


Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:24:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how should Dems fix primaries (2.00 / 2)

Oh, come on.  Not everyone who has concerns about voting on the basis of race can be dismissed as a racist.  In some people's minds, 92% of black people voting for the black candidate against the white one is no different than 92% of white people voting for the white candidate against the black one.  I don't happen to agree with that, but it's not like you have to be racist to feel that way.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:39:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how should Dems fix primaries (2.00 / 1)

When someone says HRC won NC if you don't count Blacks, what is the implied message?

Why don't you hear people asking, if you don't count women or seniors...?

Which HRC supporters have denounced the argument of disparaging Black votes?

I will grant you that the HRC campaign has developed this kind of arguing into a new kind of pathos.

"If you don't count states with too many Blacks..."

"If you don't count states with too few Blacks..."

"If you changed the rules after the fact, to be like the Republicans..."


Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:45:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: how should Dems fix primaries (2.00 / 2)

But the diary doesn't say "Hillary won if you don't count blacks."  It says "Hillary would win if blacks voted for Obama by the same margins that whites voted for Clinton."  You're turning it into something far more inflammatory than it is.

There are plenty of ways to respond to this argument without calling it racist.


"Another problem we have...is that in election years we behave somewhat as primitive peoples do at the time of the full moon." --Harry Truman
by Steve M on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:52:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

there is no implied message (2.00 / 1)

just a truth that the blacks are gonna vote for the black guy. Don't try your bullshit rebuttal "what about women for the women?" because racial bonds stretch across gender, and black men and women are all voting Obama, and that people of such a minority are more tightly bonded than white women and men are. It should be a given that any somewhat viable black candidate in a Dem primary has the black vote in the bag. its default. But they're gonna vote Dem in the general election anyway. Preaching to the choir never won any new parishoners. You need SWING VOTERS. Blacks are not swing voters. he needs voters that he is not guaranteed. he cannot get them


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:54:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: there is no implied message (2.00 / 2)

just a truth that the blacks are gonna vote for the black guy.

Bullshit. They didn't vote for Al Sharpton.


by Angry White Democrat on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:06:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: there is no implied message (2.00 / 2)

Or Carol Moseley Braun in 2004.


Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:08:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: there is no implied message (2.00 / 1)

because no one thought he could win. I meant that they will vote for the black if they think he can win.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:09:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: there is no implied message (none / 0)

Actually then, they are voting for Obama for the same reason I am...(amongst other reasons)

I think he can win?

Jay, let me introduce to a ton of other Honkie MF'ers out here in Latte Software land?

Obama won like 7 to 1 in King County. Mostly White, very mixed.

He will shore up the base in CA and NY, he will fight like hell in the south, and the Republics will HAVE to spend money down there, to defend down ticket?

If you want to know the vote IMHO he needs to grab by the throat, it's Latinos?

Which is why I think you can start calling Bill Richardson Mr. Secretary of State!


"Well the danger on the rocks is surely past... Still I remain tied to the mast"...Don Fagen, Poet and Piano Player
by WashStateBlue on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:21:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Potter Stewart said (none / 0)

About pornography: "I can't define it but I know it when I see it."
I feel the same way about racism.
Far too many of the arguments put forth by Clinton supporters--some officially part of the campaign, others civilians--just reek of racism.
That's one of the reasons that I've become so disgusted by the Clintons: they themselves are not racists, but they haven't done anything as far as I can see to stop their backers from making these veiled racist pleas. Sure, the arguments ARE veiled. Some are subtle enough that honest people can honestly disagree whether some of them are in truth racist. Others, not so much. But with these arguments coming so often and so consistently, I don't think that there's any way to argue that this isn't some kind of strategy, and there isn't any way to argue that the Clintons have looked the other way as others have exploited racism for her benefit.
This thread drips with racism. I can't prove it beyond any doubt, and I can't always define exactly what it is that makes it racist, but I sure know it when I see it.
And I see it here.
ооо
by Mumphrey on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:18:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

political incorrectness is not racism (2.00 / 1)

its just pointing out a truth that hurts badly to people not because you are insulting them, but reminding them of things they don't want to think about


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:25:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Potter Stewart said (none / 0)

Why isn't it racist to BE for Obama because of his race?


by handsomegent on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:37:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Potter Stewart said (none / 0)

What's your definition of "racism"?


Rrrinnggg... Time to change the government.
by Carl Nyberg on Thu May 08, 2008 at 11:28:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

they will not "vote that way anyway" (none / 0)

dangerous assumption on your part.  See my comment above.


by JJE on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:24:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Obama needs Clinton supporters (2.00 / 1)

Obama will need Clinton supporters to win in November. McCain is already campaigning for Clinton supporters in Ohio and Pennslyvania.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20080507/ts_ csm/amccain

By the way, I do believe McCain will meet his goal and get 20% of the Clinton blue collar voters in November to remain competitive with Obama in Ohio and Pennslyvania. If he gets 25% of the blue collar vote in these states, Obama will not win Ohio and PA.


by maddie900 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:00:16 PM EST

Re: Obama needs Clinton supporters (none / 0)

Hi Maddie,

That is a problem, for sure.

But, I think Senator Obama just has to make sure all those young folks that voted for him in the primary vote for him in the fall?

He will get some of the Senator Clinton vote, not all of it will desert to McCain?

But, as always, the battleground midwest will be tough?

I also think he needs to shore up the Latino vote?

But, he does bring some other states into play?


"Well the danger on the rocks is surely past... Still I remain tied to the mast"...Don Fagen, Poet and Piano Player
by WashStateBlue on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:03:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama needs Clinton supporters (none / 0)

I predict McCain will get 25% of registered Dems who voted for Hillary in the primaries. If he puts her on the ticket it will be only 10%.


by handsomegent on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:10:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Obama needs Clinton supporters (2.00 / 1)

thats about the percentage of the black vote McCain will get if Hillary is the nominee.
I had quite a few AA's tell me during canvassing that they would vote for McCain in November.
by parahammer on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:32:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Nah (none / 0)

The problem isn't that black voters would go for McCain over Clinton, rather that they'd only turn out in the numbers they did in '96 after seeing Bill's racist governance.




Democratic Candidate, US Senate, Wisconsin 2012
by benmasel on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:45:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Block Voting Wins North Carolina for Oba (2.00 / 1)

she has won . . .

 . . . a majority of votes from the Democratic base.


"The Bumble Bee flies because it thinks it can."
by LadyEagle on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:03:08 PM EST

Re: Black Block Voting Wins North Carolina for Oba (2.00 / 3)

It's hard to think of a group more loyal to the Democratic Party than African-Americans.  You seem to think the base excludes them.


by Skaje on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:08:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Block Voting Wins North Carolina for Oba (2.00 / 1)

I agree that type of comment is too reminiscent of the whole irrelevant state type of thinking (if a state voted for Obama it was somehow less legitimate or significant).


by True Independent on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:26:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Block Voting Wins North Carolina for Oba (none / 0)

no I don't . . .

check the CNN or MSNBC exit polls. HRC wins  among Democrats in practically all the primaries.


"The Bumble Bee flies because it thinks it can."
by LadyEagle on Wed May 07, 2008 at 11:51:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Damn the 14th amendment /snark off -nt (2.00 / 2)


Student Guy=JoeMentum. No really Student Guy=JoeMentum, after all JoeMentum was an embarrassment so is Student Guy. This sig is FAIL!!
by Student Guy on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:05:38 PM EST

"Hillary wins the White Vote" (2.00 / 1)

Is that really the best they can do?  

I shudder to think of their next argument.  


Obama leads the popular vote too
by kellogg on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:19:50 PM EST

Block Voting (2.00 / 1)

I think the diarist here overlooks a number of things.  Should we condemn people over the age of 65 block voting for Clinton.  If you took out her 70 to 30 win of the over 65 group in Indiana, she would have lost Indiana by a significant margin.  My analogy to the senior "block vote" applies equally to the results in PA, Ohio, etc.,.  I do not see the wisdom in questioning or disparging "block voting" or trying to call into question the legtimacy of election results simply because the diarist does not share the views or perhaps thinks a certain block voting group is foolish.


by True Independent on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:24:30 PM EST

Re: Block Voting (2.00 / 1)

the reason this is bloc voting is because this is how they vote in the general election anyway. Hillary's showing with whites, older women and women is not how we do in general elections. Its better than we do there. Therefore, whites votes are not predictable like black voters


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:29:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not this time (none / 0)

if the superdelegates give Hillary the nomination after Obama has won the pledged delegates and the popular vote, African Americans will not vote for her in strong numbers.  They may go to McCain in droves, or they may just stay home.  Either way, she won't win any of those "big states".


by JJE on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:21:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

they wont' vote for her says who? (2.00 / 1)

the pundits who are extorting this nomination for Obama? There is something called winning the election, and it seems that there are many who won't mind losing the election as long as the blacks are pleased, even if Obama loses everyone else


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:27:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

says anyone paying attention (2.00 / 0)

pundits aren't extorting the nomination.  Voters are deciding it.  It appears that the fact that some of those voters are black bothers you.

And your argument assumes that Hillary's white vote in the primary will extrapolate to the general, which is a ridiculous assumption.  Hillary's hit her ceiling.


by JJE on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:30:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Block Voting (none / 0)

Again she didn't get 92% of the senior vote plus seniors transcend race and gender.


by handsomegent on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:38:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

In short, if things were different... (2.00 / 3)

...then they wouldn't be the same. Is that your point in subjecting us to this analysis? Yes, most black people do seem to support Obama, but so do alot of white people, myself included.


by Kordo on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:25:34 PM EST

Re: Black Block Voting Wins North Carolina for Oba (2.00 / 3)

I am frankly surprised to see democrats complaining about AA block voting, frankly one of the biggest advantages that the party has.  Remember that no democrat has won the white vote in a presidential election in 44 years, since Johnson beat Goldwater in 1964.  Since then, every democrat elected has been elected on the strength of AA block voting, including the husband of the "aggreived" candidate.  Twice.

According to 2004 exit polling, AAs were 26% of the electorate in NC in the last election.  If the democrat can win 90% of that cohort, split the 3% Latino/Other cohort, a democrat could win NC in a general election with less than 37% of the white vote. The idea that this is somehow a negative for the party is actually fairly silly.  It is obviously a huge advantage.


by davey jones on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:41:25 PM EST

Kerry only got 27% of the white vote there (2.00 / 1)

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004//pages/ results/states/NC/P/00/epolls.0.html and if Obama can't do better, even with black number you give, we still lose. He is not winning that state unless McCain falters amongst whites, and at the rate Obama is going, that may not happen. Obama is not gonna win that state.


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Wed May 07, 2008 at 07:57:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

McCain has huge problems (none / 0)

with evangelical whites.  Bush was their boy and McCain doesn't appeal to them at all.


by JJE on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:15:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: McCain has huge problems (2.00 / 1)

why would Obama do any better? his comments like "punished with a baby" "cling to guns and religion" could be enough to drive white evangies out in droves


"there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be cured by what is right in America"-William Jefferson Clinton, forty-second President of the United States
by DiamondJay on Wed May 07, 2008 at 08:28:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

it's all about turnout (none / 0)

it doesn't matter if they won't vote for Obama.  the point is that they may stay home, just as blacks will if Hillary gets the nom after losing the pledged and pop. vote.


by JJE on Thu May 08, 2008 at 08:51:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]

I have been saying.... (2.00 / 1)

if WHITE WOMEN voted in the same way that AA's have supported Obama, she would be the nominee.

As it is she winds up with over 60% of WW votes, but if she reached 70% then she'd be the nominee.


by nikkid on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:05:42 PM EST

Re: I have been saying.... (none / 0)

its pointless, why so obsessed with age, vs sex vs race.

It makes both candidates look WEAK.


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:56:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Black Block Voting Wins North Carolina for Oba (2.00 / 1)

"Block voting" as you call it seems, in the most critical analysis, to be a reflection of a group of voters who feel disenfranchised. Shouldn't you be asking yourself what we can do in this country to lift our black brothers and sisters up so that they don't feel, and aren't, disenfranchised? Instead you want to cast aspersions on their hope that someone who looks like them, who has undoubtedly faced some of the same hate, who understands them from their own life experience, that someone like that, just might, just might become president? You want to dismiss them?


Senator Obama will be formally nominated on August 28, 2008 - the 45th Anniversary of Dr. King's "I Have A Dream Speech."
by brimur on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:22:03 PM EST

Re: Black Block Voting Wins North Carolina for Oba (none / 0)

Well, this diary has moved pretty far down the dairy list.  Knowing Mydd, I expect another diary with the same talking points to be posted within the next 30 minutes.  


by reggie23 on Wed May 07, 2008 at 09:23:46 PM EST

This is a Jesse Helms talking point (none / 0)

You do realize that the term "black block voting" is a Jesse Helms term that he coined back in the 1980s, do you?  I suppose it doesn't bother this "Democrat"  to know that he's parroting the talking points of those who abandoned the Democrats for the GOP decades ago - over race.


by elrod on Thu May 08, 2008 at 01:37:09 AM EST

Is it Racism? (none / 0)

When any group votes for or against someone solely on the basis of race is it racism? I suppose ethnic solidarity has been a feature of American democracy
since the founding of the republic. Seems old white guys voted for old white guys. It reflects the huge racial divide in America. If Senator Obama can bridge it, kudos to him. If blacks have been cajoled
into voting for him without regard to his politics and positions, then shame on him.
by hypopg on Thu May 08, 2008 at 05:32:26 AM EST

I really think (none / 0)

WTF, I just can't believe it sometimes.

Republicans by their nature and STRATEGY are racists.

They have been running on racism since Nixon made it policy to do so.

So, when it comes to republicans, I will play the race card till i get paper cuts from that card.

When I see Democrats play the SAME games, you think im gonna leave that card in my back pocket?

No, because that same southern strategy hurts the whole country.

I almost cried when I saw Bill make the SC comment.
I kept telling myself "no, its just those blood drinking advisers they have, there's no way my childhood hero just said that when I was raised to fight racism and ignorance as that child"

I hope you people calm down, and this BS fades, and we remember who really hates Blacks, Latinos, Jews, Muslims, Atheists, homosexuals, poor people, working people etc etc etc


Unable to rec or rate

Read this: http://www.mydd.com/story/2008/5/15/1427 30/254

by GeorgeP922 on Thu May 08, 2008 at 10:55:39 AM EST


You are not logged in.

In order to post a comment, you must be logged in. If you have a member account, please log in to comment.

If not, you can make an account right here. It's quick and free.